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pianoman
05-29-2008, 12:37 PM
All the talk has been about our 11'th pick, but does anyone think we can find a real gem with our 2'nd rd pick? Who should we look at with that pick?

avoidingtheclowns
05-29-2008, 12:59 PM
these are a few fringe first rounders and second rounders that are interesting... obviously we have no idea who would still be available yet.

Courtney Lee
DJ White
Devon Hardin
Lester Hudson
Kyle Weaver
Bill Walker
Richard Hendrix
Joey Dorsey
Shan Foster

blanket
05-29-2008, 01:01 PM
best player availalbe :D

seriously though, players are all over the board in this draft, so it's harder to discern a 2nd round player from a 1st at this point, but I'd look at players like Walker, Gist, Hendrix, Lee, Hardin, Hudson, Weaver, Jawai, Dorsey, Pekovic...

croz24
05-29-2008, 01:03 PM
sorry but bill walker will not be around for that pick...he'll go early-mid 20s with the ability to shoot up even more...

Jonathan
05-29-2008, 01:06 PM
It depends if we go big or small in w/ the 11th Pick.

If we go big at 11
Kyle Weaver Washington State
Goran Dragig Russia
Wayne Ellington North Carolina


If we go PG at 11
Trent Plaisted BYU
Joey Dorsey Memphis
Nathan Jawai Australia

Wings
JR Giddeons New Mexico (transferred from Kansas)
Bill Walker (Washington State)
Robert Vaden (Cathedral/Pike/IU/UAB) (He does fit JOB's system)
Richard Roby (Colorado)

travmil
05-29-2008, 01:08 PM
sorry but bill walker will not be around for that pick...he'll go early-mid 20s with the ability to shoot up even more...

Well then he had better have a hell of a good pre draft camp then, because if the draft were held today he'd be early to mid second.

Jonathan
05-29-2008, 01:09 PM
sorry but bill walker will not be around for that pick...he'll go early-mid 20s with the ability to shoot up even more...

Why are you so high on Bill Walker?

Speed
05-29-2008, 01:14 PM
these are a few fringe first rounders and second rounders that are interesting... obviously we have no idea who would still be available yet.

Courtney Lee
DJ White
Devon Hardin
Lester Hudson
Kyle Weaver
Bill Walker
Richard Hendrix
Joey Dorsey
Shan Foster

Good list:

Lester Hudson, Bill Walker, DJ White, Kyle Weaver I would guess will all be gone, I hate to say and maybe all in the first round.

I guess there are some foreign players are going to be there that would make sense if Bird can keep an eye to the future under the current circumstances. Ante Tomic and Niola Pekovic as per Chad Ford today, but you have/get to wait on them since they already have deals in Europe. No it's not Stanko quality, but who is. :happydanc

Just to take some credit on a semi related matter, Brook Lopez seems to be dropping, maybe out of the lottery. Also, I'm worried that it puts him on the Pacers radar at 11.

avoidingtheclowns
05-29-2008, 01:14 PM
Why are you so high on Bill Walker?

he had been a former lotto projection - so there is a lot to like. but walker has had one if not two ACL surgeries and has certainly lost a step. it is conceivable that he could go late 1st, but the same is true with courtney lee, devon hardin and dj white.


Good list:

Lester Hudson, Bill Walker, DJ White, Kyle Weaver I would guess will all be gone, I hate to say and maybe all in the first round.

i don't think you'll see weaver or hudson going in the first but otherwise yeah i agree. but no one thought mcroberts would be there in the 2nd either.

to my original list i should also add mario chalmers.


I guess there are some foreign players are going to be there that would make sense if Bird can keep an eye to the future under the current circumstances. No not Stanko quality, but hopefully close. :happydanc

some mocks have jawai going late first others have him late second. so he could be someone to look at if available. same goes for omer asik.


Just to take some credit on a semi related matter, Brook Lopez seems to be dropping, maybe out of the lottery. Also, I'm worried that it puts him on the Pacers radar at 11.

why would it worry you at if he was available at 11?

travmil
05-29-2008, 01:18 PM
he had been a former lotto projection - so there is a lot to like. but walker has had one if not two ACL surgeries and has certainly lost a step. it is conceivable that he could go late 1st, but the same is true with courtney lee, devon hardin and dj white.

Exactly. He USED to be an athletic high flying freak, but that isn't his game anymore. In the NBA he's going to have to rely more on his shot, which has potential, but is shaky at best at this point. His highest attribute right now is that he just has incredible feel for the game. He knows where to be and what to do with or without the ball in every situation.

Jonathan
05-29-2008, 01:20 PM
he had been a former lotto projection - so there is a lot to like. but walker has had one if not two ACL surgeries and has certainly lost a step. it is conceivable that he could go late 1st, but the same is true with courtney lee, devon hardin and dj white.

He cannot shot the three ball worth 10 cents. He is listed at 6'6 so he will have to play SF. I did see him play against USC and was very impressed with his game. If he is available, I would not be upset if we drafted him. Pat Calathes of St Joe's will be availble and he is 6'10 and has very good court vision. He had a strong showing yesterday in Orlando. Larry Bird likes players that can play multiple postitions and wants somebody that can come in and help immediately. Calathes is 22 and he fits both those requirements.

travmil
05-29-2008, 01:24 PM
Larry Bird likes players that can play multiple postitions...

Problem with that theory is that he can find 5 that can play three or four positions, but so far he has only found one (Granger) that playes one (SF) well.

Jonathan
05-29-2008, 01:40 PM
Problem with that theory is that he can find 5 that can play three or four positions, but so far he has only found one (Granger) that playes one (SF) well.

If Granger plays the SF positon so well why would we draft Bill Walker? I see a lot of potential for Shawne Williams and Mike Dunleavy plays very well too.

I like the Pistons formula when drafting they have a solid core and they find players that fit their mold and acquire theme ie Jason Maxiell & Rodney Stuckey. Our organization has defined our core players and now it is time to build around them!

I would not object to Pat Calathes being drafted withe the 41st pick by our organization. He can play either forward positon and start the up tempo game with Diener off the bench. Odds are the Pacers will not get an all-star with this pick. They need to find a need and draft accordingly. If we want inside toughness and low post defensive presence then take Joey Dorsey.

OakMoses
05-29-2008, 01:51 PM
Good list:

Lester Hudson, Bill Walker, DJ White, Kyle Weaver I would guess will all be gone, I hate to say and maybe all in the first round.

Just to take some credit on a semi related matter, Brook Lopez seems to be dropping, maybe out of the lottery. Also, I'm worried that it puts him on the Pacers radar at 11.

Kyle Weaver seems to be dropping in a lot of people's eyes since he refused the invite to the pre-draft camp. The last article I read, I can't remember if it was on ESPN or Draft Express, said that he was in danger of not being drafted at all. I think he'd be great at #41 if we go big in the first round.

I think Bill Walker will be a first round pick (probably mid-20's) and a good NBA player.

Brook Lopez dropping to 11 would be a dream scenario as far as I'm concerned.

croz24
05-29-2008, 02:01 PM
If Granger plays the SF positon so well why would we draft Bill Walker? I see a lot of potential for Shawne Williams and Mike Dunleavy plays very well too.

I like the Pistons formula when drafting they have a solid core and they find players that fit their mold and acquire theme ie Jason Maxiell & Rodney Stuckey. Our organization has defined our core players and now it is time to build around them!

I would not object to Pat Calathes being drafted withe the 41st pick by our organization. He can play either forward positon and start the up tempo game with Diener off the bench. Odds are the Pacers will not get an all-star with this pick. They need to find a need and draft accordingly. If we want inside toughness and low post defensive presence then take Joey Dorsey.

so the core players of danny granger, mike dunleavy, and jo will lead the pacers to a championship? the pacers "core" players AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH. the pacers just aren't in a position to draft role players...joey dorsey is a thug. plain and simple...

maragin
05-29-2008, 03:17 PM
I'm hoping we can draft an overseas player and keep him there indefinitely. Worked so far.

Jonathan
05-29-2008, 03:35 PM
so the core players of danny granger, mike dunleavy, and jo will lead the pacers to a championship? the pacers "core" players AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH. the pacers just aren't in a position to draft role players...joey dorsey is a thug. plain and simple...

The core players may not be good enough but that is all we have to build around. Unless we can unload salary. I never said they are championship material, but Granger is a good piece to build around. I would love to select a role player at the 41st pick. A player that knows his role and will come in and work/play hard and get into our rotation. The odds are agianst getting all star with that pick!

Joey Dorsey may be a thug, but my point is this The Pacers need to address their needs and draft accordingly. If speed is the need; address the need. He does fill the need of inside toughness.

pacergod2
05-29-2008, 03:44 PM
i would love to draft joey dorsey. thug or not. we need some toughness cause all our white boys (i am one) are a bunch of vag's. he is tougher than anybody on our team. and we could really use the rebounding and shot blocking. plus he has a decent low post game, but he would need to develop it quite a bit more. i think he could be a very good player in the nba if he works hard enough.

i'll take whatever the hell someone is if they are dedicated to basketball. unfortunately that has seemingly been the pacers problems... lack of dedication and effort... not lack of pigmentation.

LG33
05-29-2008, 03:51 PM
I'm hoping we can draft an overseas player and keep him there indefinitely. Worked so far.

Hahahaha...that has been our strategy in the second round hasn't it?

croz24
05-29-2008, 03:52 PM
i'm all for the pistons strategy, but only when we have their legitimacy. right now, i feel the pacers need to draft safely, but also consider that players ceiling. imo it's about drafting the player with the highest potential and lowest "bust" factor. i'm 100% against drafting westbrook or augustin at 11 because while they may "fill needs", both will be average at best and there are pgs equally talented later on (lawson - who btw is tearing up the predraft camp right now).

walker was a top 5 player in high school who would have been a top 10 pick had he been able to come out then, and his knee injury obviously prevented him from being a top 10 pick this past year. any time you have a player who is that highly touted, yet overshadowed by a beasley and a mayo, you need to pounce. walker will improve his stroke and is regaining his athleticism each year (has lost 20-25lbs since the season ended). even if walker is not an offensive force, he can help any team right now defensively...while dorsey is the hard-nosed enforcer down low every team desires, i just can't get past his background and thuggish on-court behavior. coach cali nearly kicked him off the team! and that NEVER happens...

Fool
05-29-2008, 04:01 PM
There was a report out the other day that said Dumars promised to take D.J. White with the 29th pick. He's made similar promises in the past and not been shy about sharing them with the media.

Graham Mernatsi
05-29-2008, 04:03 PM
41'st?

http://www.angryflower.com/aposter3.jpg





:suicide2:

Anthem
05-29-2008, 04:12 PM
There was a report out the other day that said Dumars promised to take D.J. White with the 29th pick. He's made similar promises in the past and not been shy about sharing them with the media.
Already been debunked, both by the Pistons and by White.

NapTonius Monk
05-29-2008, 04:28 PM
Why are you so high on Bill Walker?

I have to agree..there's no way Walker lasts until 41. I think he'll be as good as CDR, if not better. I think the assessment that Walker's game is more suited for the pros than for college is correct.

Major Cold
05-29-2008, 04:31 PM
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http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jamont-Gordon-290/

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/jamontgordon.html

croz24
05-29-2008, 04:40 PM
yea, that jamont gordon is a player...still don't see the fascination with augustin and westbrook when guys like lawson, gordon, singletary, some say chalmers are just as good if not better...

Trader Joe
05-29-2008, 04:45 PM
Yeah, I really don't want Joey Dorsey on this team.

NapTonius Monk
05-29-2008, 04:47 PM
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<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JCBk8jC8qL8&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="355" width="425"></object>


http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jamont-Gordon-290/

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/jamontgordon.html

Jam(mont)aal Tins(Gordon)ley!!!!!!!:(

Tom White
05-29-2008, 05:15 PM
Good list:

I guess there are some foreign players are going to be there that would make sense if Bird can keep an eye to the future under the current circumstances. Ante Tomic and Niola Pekovic

What a great built-in nickname that guy could have - ATomic

count55
05-29-2008, 05:42 PM
What a great built-in nickname that guy could have - ATomic

Sure, but he's no George ****a.

count55
05-29-2008, 05:43 PM
Sure, but he's no George ****a.


Sorry, Gregor.

JayRedd
05-29-2008, 05:50 PM
I'm hoping we can draft an overseas player and keep him there indefinitely. Worked so far.

Champ-ion-ship.

Rajah Brown
05-29-2008, 06:18 PM
Croz24-

Just to clear up any confusion, you like Walker and dislike Westbrook
and Augustine right ?

travmil
05-29-2008, 07:06 PM
Jamont Gordon would have been nice for the 41st pick and I said so in another thread. Too bad he pulled out of the draft yesterday though.

I'm looking for a link to support this but can't find one. I saw it on the ESPNNews crawl. I did find a link saying he had decided not to attend the NBA PreDraft camp. Maybe that's what it was and I'm confused. I hope so, I'd love to have him at 41.

rock747
05-29-2008, 07:22 PM
I would love to get DJ White at 11 in the 2nd round, but I don't see him staying around that long... He'll probably go late 1st early 2nd.

Doddage
05-29-2008, 08:37 PM
The fact that Bill Walker won't be available in the second round means that we absolutely have to get another first. If I were LB, I'd go out of my way to make sure that he's in a Pacers uniform by the fall.

If we corral two more firsts, that would be even more ideal as we can package the two highest to move up to get Randolph, then use the second 1st to pick Walker. Honestly though, I think we'd be lucky to end up with both of those two players, since I could definitely see Walker end up as a lottery pick himself, in which case we might need to consider picking him at #11 (if we don't move up and Randolph has already been picked). Call it a reach or whatever, but it wouldn't be a wasted pick. All you need is a competent GM and reliable scouts and wasted picks shouldn't be an issue.

Anthem
05-29-2008, 08:56 PM
we can package the two highest to move up to get Randolph
Randolph will be there at #11. No need to move up.


I could definitely see Walker end up as a lottery pick himself, in which case we might need to consider picking him at #11
I've got to say, I'd be just fine getting Walker (as long as it wasn't the #11 pick), but are there any boards that have him ahead of CDR and Rush?

Not that I'd be against picking him, but NOBODY is calling the kid a lotto pick. Heck, I can hardly find a site that thinks he'll called in the first round. You say its a fact that Walker won't be there in the second, but I can't find anything to back that up. He himself isn't sure that he's a first-round pick.

Justin Tyme
05-29-2008, 09:45 PM
The fact that Bill Walker won't be available in the second round means that we absolutely have to get another first. If I were LB, I'd go out of my way to make sure that he's in a Pacers uniform by the fall.

If we corral two more firsts, that would be even more ideal as we can package the two highest to move up to get Randolph, then use the second 1st to pick Walker. Honestly though, I think we'd be lucky to end up with both of those two players, since I could definitely see Walker end up as a lottery pick himself, in which case we might need to consider picking him at #11 (if we don't move up and Randolph has already been picked). Call it a reach or whatever, but it wouldn't be a wasted pick. All you need is a competent GM and reliable scouts and wasted picks shouldn't be an issue.


No way Walker will be a lottery pick. He'll be lucky if he is drafted in the late part of the 1st round... 24-30. Why "waste" the 11th pick on a player that will still be there the latter part of the 1st or the 1st part of the 2nd?

It reminds me of Zeke drafting Balkman way too early at 20th in the 06 draft.
That kinda refutes your last sentence.

Trader Joe
05-29-2008, 09:57 PM
Randolph won't be there at 11. Nets will take him at 10 if he's there.

Anthem
05-29-2008, 10:01 PM
Randolph won't be there at 11. Nets will take him at 10 if he's there.
Assuming the Clips really take Augustin at #7, that would almost certainly push Gordon to us.

immortality
05-29-2008, 10:49 PM
I thought we traded our 2nd round pick this year to Miami Heat, since we got Stanko last year... ?

Anthem
05-29-2008, 10:58 PM
I thought we traded our 2nd round pick this year to Miami Heat, since we got Stanko last year... ?
2009.

http://www.realgm.com/src_future_draftpicks.php#indiana

croz24
05-29-2008, 11:53 PM
Croz24-

Just to clear up any confusion, you like Walker and dislike Westbrook
and Augustine right ?

yes sir, you would be correct. although much of my dislike for augustin has to do with where he's being projected. i can't buy into the idea of drafting a pg at #11 when there are pgs of equal talent, ability, promise that could be had later. that and i'm of the mindset pgs and cs should only be drafted as lotto picks if you are 100% certain they will be of all-star ability. there's too much bust potential with those two positions to take that gamble. i also see augustin being just an average pro at best.

Mr. Sobchak
05-30-2008, 12:02 AM
Another guy to look out for is 6-2 Combo Guard Brian Roberts http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brian-Roberts-5032/ from Dayton. I went to school at the University of Dayton last year so I got to see a lot of him first hand and he is a player. He was arguably the best player in the A-10 this year. He is a great scorer, ball handler, and shooter. He got a bad rap for not being that 'pure' of a point guard but he didn't have much to work with at UD the past two years. I think he could be a nice 6-7th man off the bench ala Jeremy Pargo which is what we should be realistically looking for with this pick.

Mr. Sobchak
05-30-2008, 12:11 AM
yes sir, you would be correct. although much of my dislike for augustin has to do with where he's being projected. i can't buy into the idea of drafting a pg at #11 when there are pgs of equal talent, ability, promise that could be had later. that and i'm of the mindset pgs and cs should only be drafted as lotto picks if you are 100% certain they will be of all-star ability. there's too much bust potential with those two positions to take that gamble. i also see augustin being just an average pro at best.

There is bust potential at every pick except maybe the top two this year. We have to be able to take those chances and go for the home run. Thats why I will never fault the Pacers on the Jonathan Bender trade or taking David Harrison at 30. Sometimes these things don't work out. Do you honestly think the Lakers were 100% certain that Bynum would pan out? No way in hell. Do you think the we were 100% certain that the JO trade would work out? No way.. The point is franchises become great by going for the home run and not playing it safe. We havent had the luxury of picking this high in years-lets swing for the fences and hope everything works out for the best. What is the worst that could happen? We're bad for a few more years?

croz24
05-30-2008, 12:51 AM
i actually wanted to be even worse as a team these last 2 years and have been calling for jo to be traded for at least 3 years...my mindset is 90% of the time teams must be bad before they become great. i agree with you about the bender trade and it's unfortunate his knees were how they were. i also wasn't upset with the harrison pick, but at that time, the pacers could afford to take a gamble on harrison...yes we are in dire need of a pg, but that doesn't mean we should reach for one at #11. augustin and especially westbrook just don't have the potential i like at the pg position at all. i prefer others...i've probably been the BIGGEST proponent of swinging for the fenses and going for the home run on this board. the pacers conservative actions throughout the 90s i truly believe is what cost us a title. pacers management is just too accepting to the idea of mediocrity...anyway, at #11 i want the player with the best chance of becoming great, REGARDLESS of what position he plays. but then again, i'd also trade granger straight up for bayless or mayo so what do i know?

Doddage
05-30-2008, 12:57 AM
Not that I'd be against picking him, but NOBODY is calling the kid a lotto pick. Heck, I can hardly find a site that thinks he'll called in the first round. You say its a fact that Walker won't be there in the second, but I can't find anything to back that up. He himself isn't sure that he's a first-round pick.

Yeah, I didn't say he would definitely be one. I'm just saying with his talent, skills, and potential, that I wouldn't be surprised if a team picked him in the lotto. I probably should have clarified that I was referring to the late lotto. But in general, you, me, nor any other mock site knows what's going to happen in the actual draft. There are almost always reaches, and with how Walker proved himself after his ACL, I don't think it's a long shot that he'll be a late lottery pick.

Doddage
05-30-2008, 01:00 AM
No way Walker will be a lottery pick. He'll be lucky if he is drafted in the late part of the 1st round... 24-30. Why "waste" the 11th pick on a player that will still be there the latter part of the 1st or the 1st part of the 2nd?

It reminds me of Zeke drafting Balkman way too early at 20th in the 06 draft.
That kinda refutes your last sentence.
I would have to disagree with him being "lucky" to be drafted in the late-first. 16/6/2 is solid for a player that was the second option behind the great Michael Beasley. How do you know he's going to be drafted that late? Just because the mocks say so?

Zeke drafting Balkman really isn't the same scenario. Balkman in college was never really a great scorer, rebounder, etc; didn't really stand out in anything in particular. Mainly an intangibles guy who was brought in to provide energy, which is what he's doing. Basically, they knew what they were going to get out of him, so you can't call him a wasted pick.

Anyway, I should reiterate that I never said we should definitively draft Walker at #11. I said we should merely consider it amongst the other prospects that we have in mind. I do, however, want to find someway we can get Walker in the draft, be that by making a trade or buying another pick.

Justin Tyme
05-30-2008, 09:04 AM
I would have to disagree with him being "lucky" to be drafted in the late-first. 16/6/2 is solid for a player that was the second option behind the great Michael Beasley. How do you know he's going to be drafted that late? Just because the mocks say so?

Zeke drafting Balkman really isn't the same scenario. Balkman in college was never really a great scorer, rebounder, etc; didn't really stand out in anything in particular. Mainly an intangibles guy who was brought in to provide energy, which is what he's doing. Basically, they knew what they were going to get out of him, so you can't call him a wasted pick.

Anyway, I should reiterate that I never said we should definitively draft Walker at #11. I said we should merely consider it amongst the other prospects that we have in mind. I do, however, want to find someway we can get Walker in the draft, be that by making a trade or buying another pick.


Let me qualify myself about Walker: I would have no problem with the Pacers drafting him, BUT not with their 11th pick. It would be a waste. The same as when Zeke drafted Balkman. Zeke could have gotten him with the Knicks 29th pick. Zeke could have selected a better player at 20th than he got with his 29th pick in Collins. Unlike Bird, Zeke is a good/great evaluator of talent. Zeke got scared someone would pick Balkman before he could pick him at 29, so he picked him at 20 thus wasting the 20th pick on Balkman.

At one time Balkman was trade untouchable, so that tells me Zeke didn't draft him as a energy off the bench lower rotational player. Zeke drafted him as an important rotational player to possible starter. I personally believe Zeke over valued Balkman in the draft. Now that Zeke isn't be the coach, Balkman may be in a better system to show his abilities. Only time will tell.

As it stands now, my feeling is Walker will a late 1st or early 2nd pick based on mocks and his ACL injury. The Pacers got Danny at 17 b/c other teams passed on him do his injury, and I feel there is a good chance the same will happen with Walker.

If things stay the same and Walker doesn't do anything to enhance himself to the GM's, it will be interesting to see who is the closer to being right where he ends up being picked. Lottery to 20 or early 20's to early 2nd round.

Jonathan
05-30-2008, 09:27 AM
Last Night I was watching a game from Orlando on ESPN U and got to see the following players Joey Dorsey, Lester Hudson, but a kid named M Taylor shined. Lester Hudson has very questionable shot selection but pushes the pace. Dorsey has suprisingly good speed. This Taylor kid was by the most impressive in the game.

travmil
05-30-2008, 09:48 AM
I like Walker, I really do. I even drove to Cincy a few years ago to see him and Mayo play. I would love for the Pacers to get him at 41. But calling him a lock even for the 1st round, let alone the lottery is stretching it. He has potential for sure, but teams looking for SG/SF in the first round are going to have better options without two surgically repaired knees. There are plenty of players (Budinger, CDR, Kyle Weaver, Courtney Lee, Jamont Gordon) that had better seasons than Walker, and they did it against competition that was just as tough. And that's not even counting the international guys. I think it's possible that Walker is better than any of those guys, but he hasn't proven it in any way, and does not deserve to be picked ahead of any of them.

Taterhead
05-30-2008, 09:48 AM
I thought we traded our 2nd round pick this year to Miami Heat, since we got Stanko last year... ?

We also have the Suns 2nd rounder from the Jones deal, and they get whichever one is lower. So I think we get to keep our own. That is if I remember correctly.

Anthem
05-30-2008, 10:54 AM
We also have the Suns 2nd rounder from the Jones deal, and they get whichever one is lower. So I think we get to keep our own. That is if I remember correctly.
Nope. The Suns pick went to Portland for the right of drafting White.

pacergod2
05-30-2008, 11:06 AM
you know the funny part about that draft was that i was praying that alexander johnson would fall to us. he did and i was jumping up and down like a school girl when i heard us take him.

my bubble burst when i heard that not only did we trade him for james white, but we gave up future second rounders to do it. and i wanted nothing to do with james white. alexander johnson is the type of young PF, with the rebounding and toughness that our team could have really used this year. what a roller coaster draft.

Shade
05-30-2008, 01:44 PM
I would love to nab DJ White with #41 if he's still on the board. I seriously doubt he will be, though.

Mark my words; there are going to be some steals in the second round this year.

Justin Tyme
05-30-2008, 03:06 PM
I would love to nab DJ White with #41 if he's still on the board. I seriously doubt he will be, though.

Mark my words; there are going to be some steals in the second round this year.

DJ White won't be there at 41, but Trent Plaisted will be. And yes I agree, there will be some steals in the 2nd round. That's why I'd like to see Bird get an early 2nd round pick. Not only will there be steals in the 2nd, but they aren't guaranteed contracts... unless Bird gives one like he did to the infamous James White.

Oh please just don't let Bird pick another Euro and stash him away overseas again!

croz24
05-30-2008, 03:07 PM
^ have you been following what trent's been doing in the pre-draft camp?

Jonathan
05-30-2008, 04:14 PM
DJ White won't be there at 41, but Trent Plaisted will be. And yes I agree, there will be some steals in the 2nd round. That's why I'd like to see Bird get an early 2nd round pick. Not only will there be steals in the 2nd, but they aren't guaranteed contracts... unless Bird gives one like he did to the infamous James White.

Oh please just don't let Bird pick another Euro and stash him away overseas again!

Why do you knock drafting Euro_players in the second round? It is better than taken a chance on a Curtis Sumpter and have him never playing for your organization.

tdubb03
05-30-2008, 04:25 PM
you know the funny part about that draft was that i was praying that alexander johnson would fall to us. he did and i was jumping up and down like a school girl when i heard us take him.

my bubble burst when i heard that not only did we trade him for james white, but we gave up future second rounders to do it. and i wanted nothing to do with james white. alexander johnson is the type of young PF, with the rebounding and toughness that our team could have really used this year. what a roller coaster draft.

This exact scenario happened to me.

pacergod2
05-30-2008, 04:37 PM
Here is my prediction:

We trade the #11 pick to portland for the #13 and #33 picks.

Portland moves ahead of division rival sacramento to steal a pg away from them at the #12 pick. portland is smart to do this trade because they have three second rounders and if westbrook or augustin get taken before 11, the other will still be there. at 13 they wont get either of them for sure. this will allow the pacers to stay ahead of phoenix at 15 who is supposedly in love with brandon rush. we take him at 13 to solidify our back court defense and at the same time get a guy with a sweet stroke. then at 33 and 41 we can get our big man and pg, depending on who is available. there are going to be a ton of good pg's taken in the second round... such as george hill, ty lawson (possibly), mario chalmers, lester hudson, demarcus nelson, sean singletary, or jamont gordon. i think several of these guys could be terrific nba points. i really like singletary and gordon. then we would be able to pick up a guy like dorsey, hendrix, hardin, jefferson, mays, gransberry or jawai in the second, again depending on who is available at those spots.

also look for another variation:

dunleavy and #11

for

#13, #36, jack, frye, and webster


ps - if we draft an international player whose name is not batum, i will throw up. i think batum could be exceptional if he maintains his confidence.

OakMoses
05-30-2008, 05:18 PM
One interesting guy who'd be available at 41 (or later if we want to pull a Stanko and trade a future 2nd for a later pick) would be Mike Taylor. It sounds like he's got some significant character issues in his past, but his upside just may be worth it. Here's the Draft Express write up on him:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mike-Taylor-5211

<TABLE align=left><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>NBA Pre-Draft Camp, Day Three
May 30, 2008
For the winners, Mike Taylor (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mike-Taylor-5211/) continues to help his stock by showing possibly the most athleticism of any guard in this camp. He was simply a blur in the open floor, weaving his way in and out of traffic being impossible to stay in front of even in the half-court, a looking relentlessly explosive finishing around the basket. He was a man on a mission today, making emphatic plays that clearly left a strong impression in the eyes of decision makers who had never seen him before. His perimeter shot comes better than advertised, as he displayed by pulling up off the dribble from mid-range and killing his defender for going underneath a screen, while also knocking down 2 of his 5 attempts from behind the NBA arc. He also made two very nice reads in the half-court, in back to back possessions, making good reads to slashing cutters moving off the ball for easy finishes. He’s clearly more of a shooting guard than a point, but seems to have the instincts for that not to be as much of a factor these days as it may have been a few years back. He needs to continue to be unselfish and maybe bring it up a notch on the defensive end, but you can’t argue with how well he’s played here so far. He definitely has a chance to get drafted.
http://www.draftexpress.com/template/down_arrow.gif[Read Full Article (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA-Pre-Draft-Camp,-Day-Three-2903/)]

<HR><TABLE align=left><TBODY><TR><TD><SCRIPT> document.write('<scr' + 'ipt src=""http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/draftexpress.fsv/ros;sect=ros;fantasy=no;game=no;tile=3;sz=300x250; ord=' + random_number + '?></scr' + 'ipt>'); </SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/draftexpress.fsv/ros;sect=ros;fantasy=no;game=no;tile=3;sz=300x250; ord=3515652542?"></SCRIPT><NOSCRIPT> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/draftexpress.fsv/ros;sect=ros;fantasy=no;game=no;tile=3;sz=300x250; ord='+random_number+'? </NOSCRIPT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>NBA Pre-Draft Camp, Day Two
May 29, 2008
Also a very pleasant surprise was the play of D-League product Mike Taylor (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mike-Taylor-5211/)—a 6-2 combo guard in the Louis Williams (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Louis-Williams-231/) mold with freakish athleticism and terrific scoring instincts. He got to the basket at will, made some nice plays pulling up from mid-range, finished with a nifty floater, and hit one of his three 3-pointers (something scouts will be scrutinizing closely here). On the downside, he seemed to force the issue excessively at times—turning the ball over a game-high 5 times in the process), struggled a bit with his rail-thin frame fighting through screens and barely saw any minutes at the point at all. He clearly looks like an undersized shooting guard, but might just have the physical tools, scoring ability and overall ability to overcome that. It will be very interesting to continue to follow him.
http://www.draftexpress.com/template/down_arrow.gif[Read Full Article (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA-Pre-Draft-Camp,-Day-Two-2901/)]

<HR>NBA D-League Showcase, Day Four
January 18, 2008
Mike Taylor is the type of story you find on occasion in the D-League. A 21 year old former Junior College standout, Taylor spent his lone year in college playing for Iowa State, where he had a terrific season, averaging 16 points and 4.5 assists on his way to All-Big 10 honors. From there things seemed to go downhill for him, as he was kicked of the team after being arrested on more than one occasion. He first tried enrolling at a Division II school, but when that didn’t work out, went to go play in the D-League instead, and actually had himself a terrific performance at the D-League showcase.

Taylor is a superb athlete, possibly one of the quickest players we saw in our four days in Boise. He’s also an excellent ball-handler, able to change directions quickly and get to the rim in strong fashion, where he can finish in a variety of ways. Taylor can also shoot the ball with NBA range, as he displayed knocking down a barrage of 3-pointers in just a few short minutes to bury Fort Wayne in the 3rd quarter. He’s a streak scorer who can heat up just as fast as he can cool down.

In an off the bench sparkplug role playing in a wide open setting such as this, Taylor is outstanding, but where he might get himself into some trouble is when he’s forced to think and make plays in the half-court. He’s quite wild with the ball at times, driving with his head down at full speed into the paint, and jacking up terrible shots off the dribble without even thinking about looking around to see if one of his teammates are open. That doesn’t come as that much of a surprise when you consider that Taylor shot 37% from the field last year and averaged just under 5 and a half turnovers per game, playing for one of the worst teams in the Big 12.

No one will deny the talent Taylor has at his disposal, but if he’s going to make a career in basketball, he’s going to have to first prove that he’s put his considerable baggage behind him. Playing here in Idaho is a nice start.
http://www.draftexpress.com/template/down_arrow.gif[Read Full Article (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA-D-League-Showcase,-Day-Four/)]

Dece
05-30-2008, 05:37 PM
Speaking as an Iowa State student, we don't want Taylor. Like... imagine if Iverson called his number even more often, had less dribbling skills, and couldn't shoot very well.

Yea... pretty sweet player right? No denying the kid is as quick or quicker than anyone, but that's just not enough.

NapTonius Monk
05-30-2008, 06:15 PM
Unlike Bird, Zeke is a good/great evaluator of talent.

Zeke drafted Fred Jones over Tayshaun Prince :(

Justin Tyme
05-30-2008, 06:33 PM
Why do you knock drafting Euro_players in the second round? It is better than taken a chance on a Curtis Sumpter and have him never playing for your organization.


Maybe Lorbek and Stanko, and that's reason enough! But the reality is this year there is some good talent in the 2nd round, so why draft a Euro who can't help but possibly draft a steal out of the 2nd round that could? If Bird wanted to draft a Euro last year with his traded for 2nd round 39th pick from Miami, why didn't he draft Mark Gasol? Maybe he just doesn't know talent! Gasol is one of the best young players in Europe. If he had, you wouldn't hear a word about it from me. I could even be egarly waiting for Gasol to don a Pacers' uni. When do you think Lorbek and Stanko will be coming over to put on a Pacers uni? My guess is not this decade if ever.

Major Cold
05-30-2008, 06:58 PM
Guys keep thinking this is a magical draft that has that one player that turns it on. Odds are they may not make the roster.

imawhat
05-30-2008, 07:20 PM
Speaking as an Iowa State student, we don't want Taylor. Like... imagine if Iverson called his number even more often, had less dribbling skills, and couldn't shoot very well.

Yea... pretty sweet player right? No denying the kid is as quick or quicker than anyone, but that's just not enough.


We definitely don't want to build our future around a player like this, but we're not looking for a franchise player in the 2nd round. I think a selfish but prolific scorer coming off the bench (like Eddie House) would be a great 2nd round pickup. I doubt the Pacers look twice at him though, if he has "character" issues.

travmil
05-30-2008, 08:19 PM
Here is my prediction:

We trade the #11 pick to portland for the #13 and #33 picks.

Portland moves ahead of division rival sacramento to steal a pg away from them at the #12 pick. portland is smart to do this trade because they have three second rounders and if westbrook or augustin get taken before 11, the other will still be there. at 13 they wont get either of them for sure. this will allow the pacers to stay ahead of phoenix at 15 who is supposedly in love with brandon rush. we take him at 13 to solidify our back court defense and at the same time get a guy with a sweet stroke. then at 33 and 41 we can get our big man and pg, depending on who is available. there are going to be a ton of good pg's taken in the second round... such as george hill, ty lawson (possibly), mario chalmers, lester hudson, demarcus nelson, sean singletary, or jamont gordon. i think several of these guys could be terrific nba points. i really like singletary and gordon. then we would be able to pick up a guy like dorsey, hendrix, hardin, jefferson, mays, gransberry or jawai in the second, again depending on who is available at those spots.

also look for another variation:

dunleavy and #11

for

#13, #36, jack, frye, and webster


ps - if we draft an international player whose name is not batum, i will throw up. i think batum could be exceptional if he maintains his confidence.

Sounds great but what happens when Phoenix trades ther 15 and whatever for Sactown's 12 to get Rush? We're stuck with a big fat ****burger to eat.

Anthem
05-30-2008, 08:26 PM
41'st?

:suicide2:
No doubt. I want to rip my eyes out every time I see this thread title.

CableKC
05-30-2008, 08:59 PM
Who will we draft in the 2nd round with the 41st pick?

Easy to answer....some random 17 year old PG that is playing in Europe that will never step foot in a real NBA court that just helped some Euroteam win some insignificant Regional Championship.

wintermute
05-31-2008, 12:22 AM
Mike Taylor is the type of story you find on occasion in the D-League. A 21 year old former Junior College standout, Taylor spent his lone year in college playing for Iowa State, where he had a terrific season, averaging 16 points and 4.5 assists on his way to All-Big 10 honors. From there things seemed to go downhill for him, as he was kicked of the team after being arrested on more than one occasion. He first tried enrolling at a Division II school, but when that didnít work out, went to go play in the D-League instead, and actually had himself a terrific performance at the D-League showcase.


i was intrigued by dx's writeup too until i saw that. this is simply not the right time to take a chance on someone with possible character issues. maybe down the road, we can once again take chances on a talented individual working past his baggage, but this year is definitely not the time.

in hindsight, marc gasol (#48) looks like a better pick than stanko (#39), but they are actually quite similar. both big (7'1''), slow footed, unathletic, but skilled centers. marc may be the better passer but stanko is the better rebounder. the big difference is that marc just had an absolutely break out season in the spanish acb. stanko though is about 1.5 years younger, so there is still hope for him.

however, neither are in the nba yet and we don't know if either can make the adjustment, so it seems a bit premature to celebrate the gasol pick while criticizing stanko.

MyFavMartin
06-03-2008, 11:10 AM
From what I'm reading at draftexpress and considering the possibility of the Pacers trading to get another late 1st rounder or moving up in the 2nd, I would love to see the Pacers get Speights, but if it came down to Hickson, Hendrix or DJ White, I have them rated as: DJ White, Hendrix, and Hickson. However, White and Hendrix are both closer to full potential at 21 yrs old (both) and Hickson is only 19. Still, I would go with DJ out of the 3. Better all around game and able to perform on both ends of the court. Looked dominant in a few Big Ten games that I saw.

MillerTime
06-03-2008, 11:15 AM
DJ White probably wont be around at 41, I think he'll be gone around the 30s. Hes a huge defensive presence. If we could get Westbrook at #11 and White at #41, we'd be looking pretty good...heres his clip on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjC88U7dCKo&feature=related I would love this guy around, reminds me of a younger Eric Dampier

Naptown_Seth
06-03-2008, 11:30 AM
Walker looks NBA-ready to me. I prefer the all-around game of Rush, but Walker has a Jackson-like game post-injury (somewhat like Jack and his own foot problems that have him playing below the rim mostly).

Walker doesn't get to round 2 in my view.


Now Dorsey somehow might still fall there and if that is the big you put with a #11 guard I'd be pretty happy. I think he's got the strength and fire to make the team and have some impact, more than Ike in fact since he appears set to be a defense/rebound specialist.


Kyle Weaver seems to be dropping in a lot of people's eyes since he refused the invite to the pre-draft camp.
DJ White also skipped it. This is standard draft speak for "I've gotten a promise from a team". Both White and Weaver have been tied to the Piston's, White especially. If that rumor is to be believed then White wont get out of round 1, and given the Piston's defensive view's and knack for getting semi-low flying quality player's youd see Weaver as another perfect fit, as in trade into the early 2'nd to get him too. Could Detroit be pulling a quality double dip in the late 1'rst early 2'nd? *









*Please tell me I just offended Graham at least a tiny bit

Jonathan
06-03-2008, 11:32 AM
Maybe Lorbek and Stanko, and that's reason enough! But the reality is this year there is some good talent in the 2nd round, so why draft a Euro who can't help but possibly draft a steal out of the 2nd round that could? If Bird wanted to draft a Euro last year with his traded for 2nd round 39th pick from Miami, why didn't he draft Mark Gasol? Maybe he just doesn't know talent! Gasol is one of the best young players in Europe. If he had, you wouldn't hear a word about it from me. I could even be egarly waiting for Gasol to don a Pacers' uni. When do you think Lorbek and Stanko will be coming over to put on a Pacers uni? My guess is not this decade if ever.

I do not mind drafting either one. Keep in mind the Andrew Betts deal. We can trade the rights to one of these players as a filler in a larger deal. That is better than taking a James White and cutting ties with him. If Stanko ever wears a Pacers Jersey it will sell well just from the members on PD!

MyFavMartin
06-03-2008, 01:19 PM
DJ just a taller version of Maxiell?

Would someone give up a late 1st rounder for Maxiell when they could get White? Not sure who Detroit would have to give up to get a late first rounder. Plus, they got Amir Johnson developing, right? This is a deep draft and think it'll be better than next years... Someone might be getting Stuckey.

Anthem
06-03-2008, 01:54 PM
Could Detroit be pulling a quality double dip in the late 1'rst early 2'nd?
:arrgh:

Tom White
06-03-2008, 02:55 PM
Why do you knock drafting Euro_players in the second round? It is better than taken a chance on a Curtis Sumpter and have him never playing for your organization.

Because so many of the Pacers second round Euros have played so much for the team? Or ever will?

I'm sorry, I had to do that.

Tom White
06-03-2008, 03:00 PM
this will allow the pacers to stay ahead of phoenix at 15 who is supposedly in love with brandon rush.

Can you imagine the tough spot that would put the Rush brothers in? Knowing that one of them was drafted to (somewhat) take away the other one's job?

That would be a very awkward situation for both of them.

I'm not saying to let that get in the way of a business decision, but just looking through their eyes, a bit.

Jonathan
06-03-2008, 03:05 PM
Because so many of the Pacers second round Euros have played so much for the team? Or ever will?

I'm sorry, I had to do that.

Read Post #74 by me.

NapTonius Monk
06-04-2008, 02:52 AM
I like Josh Duncan out of Xavier. He'd be a nice 2nd rounder for big man depth.

Naptown_Seth
06-04-2008, 12:31 PM
:arrgh:

*Please tell me I just offended Graham at least a tiny bit
FTW! IYF's!

OakMoses
06-04-2008, 12:51 PM
What does everybody think of Malik Hairston?

I think he'd be worth a look at #41. He's a true SG who's a good shooter, ball-handler, and passer. He's also a smart player. The question mark about him seems to be his mediocre athleticism. He's also reported to be only an average defender.

How does he compare to guys like Courtney Lee and Kyle Weaver?

travmil
06-06-2008, 12:52 AM
I just saw on the news that the Pacers had Courtney Lee in for a workout today. He's not worth the #11 and he'll be gone by #41. I wonder what they have in mind.

croz24
06-06-2008, 01:28 AM
What does everybody think of Malik Hairston?

I think he'd be worth a look at #41. He's a true SG who's a good shooter, ball-handler, and passer. He's also a smart player. The question mark about him seems to be his mediocre athleticism. He's also reported to be only an average defender.

How does he compare to guys like Courtney Lee and Kyle Weaver?

a guy who never lived up to his immense potential while at oregon. he and joe crawford played for the same detroit renaissance team in high school and were both highly regarded 5*, top 10 players

...i remember watching greg oden and lawrence north lose to that detroit team in the circle city classic. they were the only indiana team to lose thanks to about 9 fts missed by oden. also, watched courtney lee lead his team past shaun livingston's peoria squad who was ranked top 5 nationally and had a 40something win streak. lee put up about 35pts on livingston and was truly the better player that game. the game sold me on lee as being a potential pro...

neither crawford nor hairston really lived up to their billing, but hairston is definitely a solid player. he does play like a ron mercer and is a very similar type of player to lee, rush, and crawford. not sure how i'd compare him to weaver and lee since they are very similar players and their success will depend more on how they approach the game mentally than from a talent perspective. hairston does not have the defensive ability or court awareness of a weaver, yet is a much better scorer. lee is a slightly better scorer and might be the better defender, but gets in trouble with how passive he can be. lee is just not aggressive enough. altogether though, i'm not sure how i'd compare the three since they are all very similar.

outside shot: lee, hairston, weaver
midrange: lee, hairston, weaver
penetration: weaver, hairston, lee
awareness: weaver, lee, hairston
defense: weaver, lee, hairston
passing: weaver, hairston, lee
athleticism: lee, weaver, hairston
potential: lee, weaver, hairston

OakMoses
06-06-2008, 09:57 AM
Thanks for the response. I've watched Hairston play a bit but I haven't really seen Lee or Weaver other than in the tourney.

It sounds like any one of the three might be a good option at #41, with the edge going to Weaver and Lee.

My read on Hairston is that he's a talented player who doesn't have the "star" mentality. Not that he's not competitive or doesn't try, I think he's a guy who prefers to blend in to a team concept. I think he'll stick in the NBA and be a good player off the bench. I guess you usually can't ask for much more out of a second round pick.

Naptown_Seth
06-06-2008, 11:44 AM
I just saw on the news that the Pacers had Courtney Lee in for a workout today. He's not worth the #11 and he'll be gone by #41. I wonder what they have in mind.
Well to me the signal there is keeping some other trade in/up options open. Let's say you can't get back in to get Rush around 16-19 and you want a similar SG with some amount of defense (see Lee vs Westbrook in the tourney), you might still be able to bump up that 41 pick ala James White.

I like Lee as an early 2nd round SG prospect. Not Rush, but good enough to think he could be a 1200 minutes guy at some point. He's pretty solid on the dribble, has a decent mix of scoring moves (he's no CDR but still) and plays defense better than your standard go-to shooter type.

And you have a local tie as well.

Plus with the current workout rules the Pacers basically have to start with lower pick prospects and wait on the top guys to visit the teams picking ahead of them first.



Weaver vs Lee - with Weaver not working out for the Pacers we have the implication and rumor that he might already have a "we're going to draft you" promise from another team.

Beyond that though is that while Weaver worked from the 1 to 3 in the NCAA, I'd say he's mostly an offensive PG backup type than a SG (meaning that on offense he fits the PG role best), while Lee seems clearly centered on being an SG at the next level. I don't think you face an either/or with them, other than the fact that the Pacers aren't likely to have the picks to get both of them.

I wonder if they could get an 18 AND move that 41 up to around 33 if they would skip on B Rush to get Weaver then and then go for Lee later...and this assumes a big with the 11 of course.

My thinking is that if you have a 2nd option for one position later in the draft but don't have that same option at the other position, that you pass on a guy you'd like to get in order to get both roles filled with guys you still feel good about.

count55
06-06-2008, 11:46 AM
Not that I disagree with anything you're saying, but do ya really wanna use James White as an illustration?

Naptown_Seth
06-06-2008, 11:48 AM
Not that I disagree with anything you're saying, but do ya really wanna use James White as an illustration?
:laugh: Yeah, that crossed my mind when I wrote it. Hopefully not too many people will knee-jerk to the example since I just meant moving up a similar amount of spots in the 2nd round.

The price of such a move is a whole other debate. :)

avoidingtheclowns
06-06-2008, 12:05 PM
you will not find me complaining if we draft courtney lee anywhere from 25 on. i think he's going to be a solid (not all world) defensive talent and he can certainly shoot. a solid pro methinks.

Jonathan
06-06-2008, 04:33 PM
What you rather have Jeff Foster or the 25th pick? If we part with Jeff do we go big or get the best available player? Do you think a team will trade IKE for a late first round pick? I heard Utah was willing to pick up IKE for their pick (M Almond) last year but Bird did not pull the trigger.