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Infinite MAN_force
05-27-2008, 05:32 PM
LINK (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Word-on-the-Street-Love-to-Minnesota--2898/)

Someone posted this article in the draft recruiting thread, this part caught my eye...

Is 7th a Reach for Augustin?

In desperate need of help at the point guard position, and with D.J. Augustin in their sights holding the 7th overall pick, the Clippers are pondering whether to pull the trigger on the extremely productive sophomore playmaker from Texas. Augustin will clearly be the best point guard on the board, but may be a bit of a reach where they are selecting. Workouts will play a big role in the decision of Elgin Baylor and key decision maker Mike Dunleavy Sr. They will also likely nab a big man with the 35th pick.

Adding interest is the fact that Augustin has reportedly decided to hire Thad Foucher of Los Angeles-based agency Wasserman Media Group as his representation. Foucher is from Augustin’s home-town of New Orleans, and the agency has strong ties to the Texas program, currently representing LaMarcus Aldridge. If Augustin is selected in the top 10, WMG could have 5 of the top 10 picks in the draft, as they also represent Derek Rose, Brook Lopez, Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph. There are rumors that they may end up signing Russell Westbrook as well.

Augustin has numerous fans in the lottery, including Charlotte and especially Indiana, and likely doesn’t slip past Sacramento at #12 at worst. He is one of the 9 players who will be participating in the very exclusive NBA pre-draft camp media session, which is a very good sign for him.


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What would it take to swap picks with the clippers? Would Ike, Shawne, or possibly both do the trick? They just drafted thornton for SF, so maybe Ike would make more sense. Would that be enough? He is a former top 10 pick.

Also, the logical pick there is Eric Gordon. Would you go for Gordon, or someone else? I think if the pacers did this it would be for Gordon... with the PR problems we have had, Gordon would generate a lot of interest and put more fans in the seats than any other prospect we could snag there. He also has All-Star potential, could be a legit "1st option" as many like to say, and could be a good fit with Danny Granger on the wings.

Dece
05-27-2008, 05:48 PM
Ike isn't helping us any since we won't play him, so I see no reason not to move up like that if we could. I'd prefer someone other than Gordon though... Mayo if he slid a bit, or Lopez... really depends on who ends up exactly where, I just don't have a strong interest in Gordon.

D-BONE
05-27-2008, 06:01 PM
With all due respect, IMF, I see this post and your latest one over in the Moving Jamaal and I just wonder about the ex-Hoosier PR thing.

I'm not sure going after guys who've recently played in Bloomington is sound PR strategy and automatically guarantees putting more fans in the seats.

I'm an IU fan, but I'd see both those acquisitions in tandem and be vary wary of letting desperation seep into our approach to offseason moves.

Now, with regards to Gordon, I'm not all that high on him. I guess the thought would be does his upside really seem that much better than Shawne's? Also, would anybody really have that much interest in Ike at this point? I sure wouldn't unless I was gettng him dirt cheap.

Rajah Brown
05-27-2008, 06:08 PM
Nobody above us is gonna swap picks with is for just Ike. The
fact that he was once a top-10 pick is irrelevant.

As for EJ, I just don't know. He's a great kid and he's got alot
of raw talent. But I don't know that he's gonna be a star at
the SG in the NBA.

Bottom line, I'd rather give up more to trade into Mayo's range than
less to get to #6 and settle for EJ.

avoidingtheclowns
05-27-2008, 06:39 PM
With all due respect, IMF, I see this post and your latest one over in the Moving Jamaal and I just wonder about the ex-Hoosier PR thing.

I'm not sure going after guys who've recently played in Bloomington is sound PR strategy and automatically guarantees putting more fans in the seats.

I'm an IU fan, but I'd see both those acquisitions in tandem and be vary wary of letting desperation seep into our approach to offseason moves.

Now, with regards to Gordon, I'm not all that high on him. I guess the thought would be does his upside really seem that much better than Shawne's? Also, would anybody really have that much interest in Ike at this point? I sure wouldn't unless I was gettng him dirt cheap.

gordon is more than just simply a PR move -- gordon is clearly talented AND he'd help get a few more people in the seats. so it isn't like us drafting DJ White at 11 just for PR purposes. in the other thread, we don't have many options regarding trading jamaal, and while he has a bad contract the silver lining with someone who contributes nil like jared jeffries would be his ties to indiana.

that being said, i think if the clippers want DJ they'd just go ahead and draft him at 7. the bobcats, who need a PG, would more than likely snag him at their position. if gordon slips to us then you could draft him at 11 and it wouldn't be a bad pick.

Anthem
05-27-2008, 07:23 PM
Assuming Love and Westbrook are gone, I'd be willing to move Ike and the #11 for Gordon.

I'd certainly rather get Gordon than Augustin, assuming those are our options.

Infinite MAN_force
05-27-2008, 07:25 PM
With all due respect, IMF, I see this post and your latest one over in the Moving Jamaal and I just wonder about the ex-Hoosier PR thing.

I'm not sure going after guys who've recently played in Bloomington is sound PR strategy and automatically guarantees putting more fans in the seats.

I'm an IU fan, but I'd see both those acquisitions in tandem and be vary wary of letting desperation seep into our approach to offseason moves.

Now, with regards to Gordon, I'm not all that high on him. I guess the thought would be does his upside really seem that much better than Shawne's? Also, would anybody really have that much interest in Ike at this point? I sure wouldn't unless I was gettng him dirt cheap.


In the case of jeffries, I only say him because he is an example of an overpaid player with a long contract and almost no production. The fact that he played for IU is just a convienent coincidence. Given Jammal's trade value of almost zero, your only choice is to target such a player for a trade, as I see getting rid of jammal as mainly a PR move. If someone would give us a shorter contract for him I would take that deal in a second... but seems less likely. The "Go Hoosiers" was meant to be sarcastic :cool:

As far as Gordon is concerned, I would listen to arguments that we might be better off taking someone else... fact of the matter is, if this happened TPTB almost surely take Gordon, so its almost a moot point. I don't have a problem with that, because I believe he will at least be a pretty productive player, if not a potential all star.

Gordon has more potential to put people in the stands and change the perception of the team immediatly than anyone else we could draft there... and TPTB know this. Sometimes it comes down to the bottom line. Its not like it is a reach, that is exactly where he is projected to go. As ATC said, There is a lot of talent and potential with the kid, who not too long ago was projected top-3, to go along with the good PR.

Swingman
05-27-2008, 08:23 PM
If Clippers really want Augustin and Augustin is definitely going before #12 then I'm guessing the Clippers won't trade down unless they're sure the teams between us and them are definitely not going to take him.

Infinite MAN_force
05-27-2008, 08:43 PM
I suppose Charlotte throws the whole thing off a bit because they talked about taking augustin.

7 sure seems like a reach... they are probably better off taking gordon and looking to trade for a point gaurd anyway. So if they take gordon and we get augustin, the same scenario could be in play.

Than again if they make the reach and Gordon falls to 11... Ill be a happy camper.

Will Galen
05-27-2008, 09:23 PM
If Clippers really want Augustin and Augustin is definitely going before #12 then I'm guessing the Clippers won't trade down unless they're sure the teams between us and them are definitely not going to take him.

What usually happens in a case like this is the teams would agree to the trade before hand conditionally.

One, the Clippers would have to be okay with who the Pacers wanted at seven, in this scenario Gordon, in case Augustin wasn't there when we picked.

The trade would naturally fall apart if one of the players the two teams wanted wasn't there.

If Augustin was available we would take him and Stern would then announce the trade.

The fact is we could ask for someone other than Gordon and then say the trade was agreed to after the deal not before.

Young
05-27-2008, 10:06 PM
Gordon's stock has fallen due to his injury and what went on at IU later in the year.

But make no mistake about it he is one hell of a talent and should be one hell of a NBA player. Better prospect than Westbrook or Augistin for sure, IMO.

I know some might still say take Westbrook, and i'd love to take him at 11, but if Gordon is still on the board at 7 (if the Pacers move up) then you take him. Look Westbrook can be a solid NBA starter, an Antonio Daniels type of player. But Gordon can be better than that. He can be a 20 point scorer and probably can develope into a point guard as well as Westbrook can.

What would the cost be for moving up to the Clippers spot? Maybe adding Shawne Williams to the deal. Or sending Marquis Daniels their way while taking back Tim Thomas or Cuttino Mobley. I consider Marquis an expiering contract that is why he might appeal to teams.

I think that if the Pacers want to move up in the draft they will have a pretty good chance of doing so by working out a deal with New York, Los Angeles, or possibly Milwuakee.

Swingman
05-27-2008, 10:38 PM
Granger fell to 17 due to injury concerns so maybe EJ can fall to 11 for us.

Speed
05-28-2008, 07:54 AM
I said stay at 11, I think you have enough players after the top 4 or so that someone will fall to you at 11. Also, someone at 11 that is not much more of a risk and you're not losing assets to move up for another risk in Gordon or insert player you get at 7 or so.

If anything I wouldn't mind moving down, up to 3 or 4 spots and picking up a piece or a later additional 1st rounder. I really want to look at moving down if there is a frenzy for other teams to acquire a lottery pick and they are willing to over pay, like this years #1 and a future #1.

We almost universally agree that the Pacers are years away and although this draft is maybe thin at the very up top, its deep in the middle. To me this makes to move down, but I don't think Bird has the balls to do it, under the current circumstances where average Joe fan would only see NOT picking someone at 11. Or worse yet, average Joe fan continuing to not go to games cuz there wasn't some high in flashy/low in substance - move in the offseason.

Thats what I really want is a lower #1 AND a future #1 from a team that falls in love with someone at 11.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Shade
05-28-2008, 02:48 PM
Do I even need to say anything?

Shade
05-28-2008, 02:50 PM
Rome wasn't built in a day.

Tell that to the Lakers and Celtics.

croz24
05-28-2008, 03:09 PM
i think we should trade up if randolph, mayo, or bayless slide

NapTonius Monk
05-28-2008, 04:57 PM
i think we should trade up if randolph, mayo, or bayless slide

I think Bayless may have the potential to slide. I haven't seen Randolph at all. Is he worthy of being picked that high?

rexnom
05-28-2008, 05:30 PM
i think we should trade up if randolph, mayo, or bayless slide
I would love for us to trade up for Mayo or Bayless. Mayo especially. However, I don't think either of them will slide.

ABADays
05-28-2008, 05:32 PM
Tell that to the Lakers and Celtics.

Amen to that.

YoSoyIndy
05-28-2008, 08:15 PM
I agree about staying put. I'd only trade up if I could somehow make my way up to the top two picks. Don't see a scenario where that happens.




I said stay at 11, I think you have enough players after the top 4 or so that someone will fall to you at 11. Also, someone at 11 that is not much more of a risk and you're not losing assets to move up for another risk in Gordon or insert player you get at 7 or so.

If anything I wouldn't mind moving down, up to 3 or 4 spots and picking up a piece or a later additional 1st rounder. I really want to look at moving down if there is a frenzy for other teams to acquire a lottery pick and they are willing to over pay, like this years #1 and a future #1.

We almost universally agree that the Pacers are years away and although this draft is maybe thin at the very up top, its deep in the middle. To me this makes to move down, but I don't think Bird has the balls to do it, under the current circumstances where average Joe fan would only see NOT picking someone at 11. Or worse yet, average Joe fan continuing to not go to games cuz there wasn't some high in flashy/low in substance - move in the offseason.

Thats what I really want is a lower #1 AND a future #1 from a team that falls in love with someone at 11.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Anthem
05-28-2008, 10:53 PM
i think we should trade up if randolph, mayo, or bayless slide
Randolph will be there at #11. No need to trade up.

Shade
05-28-2008, 10:57 PM
Randolph will be there at #11. No need to trade up.

And neither Bayless nor Mayo are going to slip below #6.

Infinite MAN_force
05-29-2008, 12:09 AM
Randolph sounds too much like Bender for my liking. I like how under "weaknesses" on draft express it says "abnormaly high bust potential". no thanks...

Of the bigs that will probably be available at 11, Speights sounds way more appealing to me than either Randolph or Arthur. I don't like these skinny "PFs". If we are going big lets get a guy who is actually big, not just tall, and Arthur isn't even that tall.

croz24
05-29-2008, 12:36 AM
obviously they are just highlights and don't mean much but randolph has a very similar game, body, and freshman season to chris bosh...randolph is a risk, but there's no question he has one of the highest ceilings in the draft. he was also playing in a very poor situation at lsu with the brady situation...and bender was a damn good player. what happened there was tragic for the pacers but there's no question without his knee issues he becomes a big time player for us imo...we also shouldn't read so much into these reports or trust sites like nbadraft or draftexpress as though they are the final say...

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rexnom
05-29-2008, 03:14 AM
Oh he's a lefty. I like that. But what makes Randolph different from fellow LSU alums Thomas and Swift?

Doddage
05-29-2008, 05:42 AM
Well, for one he's taller than those two and most importantly, has a much better offensive game. He a variety of skills, ranging from posting up to taking the mid-range J, which Tyrus and Swift are not known for. All three are similar in that they're athletic and can attack the basket, but Randolph is much more complete.

I really hope we can move up to get him, or in the very slim chance that he slips, we pick him up at #11.

croz24
05-29-2008, 06:24 AM
believe it or not, tyrus is actually starting to produce in chicago, so i wouldn't be too quick to label him a swift just yet. also, randolph didn't come out of nowhere like thomas or swift. he was a top 15 recruit coming out of high school in this loaded freshman class...

thedoddage touched on it pretty well. randolph has a very good all around offensive game. he can do pretty much anything except shoot the 3. he's basically a chris bosh clone on offense. on d, randolph is a great weakside shot blocker and plays the passing lanes very well for a big. he CLEARLY needs to bulk up, but too much could hinder his game. talent-wise, he's up there with mayo and bayless. but the big question is whether his body and thus game will translate...

Rajah Brown
05-29-2008, 07:18 AM
Watching Randolph's YouTube clip I noticed that he actually pulled
up once on a break and took a 10 footer instead of just forcing
his way into the defender under the bucket. The fact that he
recognized that was even an option, let alone hit the shot, gives
him a leg up on Bender already.

A pull-up, mid-range jumper from JB was seen about as often as a
purple unicorn.

Justin Tyme
05-29-2008, 08:56 AM
Randolph sounds too much like Bender for my liking. I like how under "weaknesses" on draft express it says "abnormaly high bust potential". no thanks...

Of the bigs that will probably be available at 11, Speights sounds way more appealing to me than either Randolph or Arthur. I don't like these skinny "PFs". If we are going big lets get a guy who is actually big, not just tall, and Arthur isn't even that tall.

I wholeheartly agree. If the Pacers are going for a BIG then go after a big, not just a tall player who has no weight or the frame to carry more weight. Speights is my pick in the 1st round, and Trent Plaisted in the 2nd round.

JO is only here for 2 more years at the most, so if the Pacers can pick up his future replacement now... do it! It's obvious the crown jewel of the GS trade is only a zircon, and not JO's replacement.