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thunderbird1245
05-26-2008, 12:42 PM
The next of my series of potential draftees is Center Roy Hibbert, from Georgetown. Hibbert will almost surely be available at #11 when the Pacers select, and most likely will only become an Indiana Pacer if the team either acquires an extra pick in the later first round, or if the Pacers trade downward from #11.

In my judgment, C Roy Hibbert is an extremely underrated player in this draft, and on this board. At 7'2 and 270 lbs, Hibbert would give us our first true legitimate center since Rik Smits. Like Smits, Hibbert will never be a dominant player, but he could be a very very valuable piece to a high quality basketball team.

In many ways, the somewhat unique way he was used at Georgetown hurts his stock now, but in the long run will be good for his game in my opinion. Georgetown under John Thompson III runs the "Princeton" style of offense perfected by Pete Carril, and used in the NBA by the New Jersey Coach Kevin Frank, and at times by New Orleans and Houston. The Hoyas often used Hibbert at the high post area, rather than feeding the ball to Hibbert on the low block and letting him go to work. Because of this Hibbert has lower point productivity than you might expect out of a center worthy of being a first round pick, but he now will have a more well rounded game at the next level than most coming out of college.

When on the rare occasions Hibbert got the ball in the low block, he is a productive (although bit mechanical) weapon. He has a nice ability to finish inside with either hand, and a particular nice right handed jump hook he can extend and shoot over people on the block. He also uses shot fakes very well for a player of his size, which is good because he lacks the explosiveness to lift off the ground and sky over people. Because of his ability to shot fake, he will be good at the next level against some post defenders at drawing fouls and getting them sent to the bench.

No one can tell this quite yet, but because he has very advanced passing skills and vision he learned by playing in the "Princeton" scheme, he will be very good at either playing the high post in the NBA game, or at passing out of double teams on the low block....which is a skill most bigs have to learn to do on the NBA level on the run....Hibbert will likely be one of the better passing centers in the league right out of the gate.

If drafted by Indiana, Hibbert immediately becomes the best screener on the Pacer roster by far. For some teams this wouldn't be a big factor, but for us this would be a huge plus for a franchise that doesnt have a single good screen setter on the payroll. Hibbert excels at setting all varieties of screens, from ball screens to downscreens for cutters coming from the baseline. He would be our best player since Dale Davis at setting "pin down" screens for shooters coming to the wing areas.

When you watch the Hoyas play on film, while I don't think they used Hibbert nearly enough inside, and they didn't get him nearly enough shots.....you can also see a team that played with a team concept and was very well taught at little things. Hibbert does a good job of talking while playing, communicating with his teammates during possessions both offensively and defensively. The ability to communicate while playing is a HIGHLY VALUABLE SKILL, and one that is very difficult to learn for most players....Hibbert does that very well already. He also plays with a wide base offensively, which means he presents a good target to throw the ball too, making it easier for passers to find him in traffic. Playing with a wide base is also a main reason why his screens are so important, because players have to take a wider route to get around him, giving his teammates an extra second/step to get shots off.

In doing research for this article I also discovered a fact that I didn't know, in that Hibbert was a very young college entrant, and is still just 21 years old. Since big guys often develop later anyway, this somewhat encourages me that Hibbert still has quite a bit of potential upside to his game, where as before I assumed he might be near completely developed. Although he has a full 4 years of college experience, he is only a year or 18 months or so older than many other bigs who played for only one season in college.

Defensively, Hibbert is solid, fundamentally sound, and unspectacular. He is strong enough to not get pushed around inside, and long enough to really bother most players he is guarding by contesting their shots with a long hand up. He also for us would be our second best shot blocker besides Jermaine O'Neal, and would severely lessen the defensive issues we have when Jermaine is out of the lineup, which as we know happens all too often.

Like most big men, Hibbert gets in foul trouble too often. Since he will be a part of a rotation of bigs at the NBA level, and will only be asked to play roughly 60%-70% of the time, I don't see this as an extreme negative. I also think in the more physical NBA game that some of the touch fouls Hibbert got in college won't be called at this level. In the low block area, Hibbert doesnt have many foul issues, but when asked to go to the perimeter his lack of quickness is a major problem for him.

Hibbert will be exposed in the NBA by teams who involve him in having to defend the screen/roll, or screen/pop. He lacks the lateral quickness to defend the dribble by a more athletic player outside of the paint. You aren't going to be able to ask Hibbert to be out trapping a ballscreen I don't think, although I do think with better conditioning and experience his athleticism will improve somewhat.

He also will be taken out of his element by teams who choose to play small. Hibbert lacks the offensive dominance to play in a superfast running game against smaller opponents, so he will be useless against a team like Golden State, for instance. However, in a more traditional style, Hibbert will be an above average player in my opinion.

I wish he had a more aggressive, dominating, aggressive approach to rebounding. Hibbert may lack the super intense nature that will make him as dominant as his skills would otherwise allow him to. In theory, Hibbert should be a strong rebounder and outlet passer, but too often on tape he isn't that at all. Now, some of the issue is that Georgetwon often used him offensively away from the basket, putting him out of position for put back opportunities. But defensively as a rebounder, you don't see Hibbert always aggressivley "hunting" for the basketball like I prefer. He is more of an old school coaching product, being taught to "blockout" and hold position, then react to the ball coming off the rim. This is how he has been taught to play, so it is hard to criticize him for it, but doing it this way hurts him because he lacks the explosiveness and quick twitch athleticism to be the first to the ball doing it this way at the NBA level. It is easy for us to imagine a player like Jeff Foster, for instance, out rebounding Hibbert because he is quicker and more aggressive.

Whether or not you think coaching can improve this one glaring weakness for Hibbert at the next level probably determines whether you like him as an overall player. Of course, some coaches (and some of you) still prefer this style of rebounding anyway, so seeing him "find/pivot/blockout/react" as a rebounding style rather than see him watch the ball and read its flight before attacking it aggressively won't annoy you as much as it does me.

I personally am of the opinion that this CAN be coached up, so for the other reasons mentioned above I probably like Hibbert more than most of you and other experts do. I would probably prefer Hibbert and his more guaranteed productivity than I would the risk/reward scenarios of other highly rated bigs in this draft, although I certainly can see the arguments for going another direction. I still see Roy Hibbert having a long and productive career in the NBA, and being on productive winning teams as a role player and productive starter in most cases. Hibert has a very low liklihood of being a bust, and I think he is one of the safest picks in the draft.

Keeping with my tradition of comparing players, who will Hibbert be like? He is more refined than Dale Davis, not as fast or talented as Robert Parish, not as slow and lead footed as Ilgauskus, not as aggressive or tough as Alonzo Mourning. So who do I compare him to?

Being as smart and well coached as he is, I am going to go with another intelligent but unathletic big man, who had a career similar to what I envison Hibbert being like in the league: Bill Cartwright.

Here is hoping that Hibbert doesnt have the injury history that "Medical Bill" Cartwright did in his younger days.


As always, the above is just my opinion.

Tbird

BlueNGold
05-26-2008, 12:48 PM
Generally, a guy his size will have a solid spot on an NBA roster. Yes, he is low risk and I thought he stepped up pretty well against Oden. IMO, his size would be at least a nice thing to have available against the bigger centers in the league. If we trade down he's not a bad option.

d_c
05-26-2008, 01:06 PM
Hibbert is an OK pick at around #25 give or take a few spots, but you don't draft him anywhere near the lottery.

For one thing, he's a poor rebounder for his size and position. His reaction time and mobility to get to balls just aren't great.

The main thing about him is his lack of athleticism and stamina. He tired way too easily in the games I watched him in. In the NBA he's facing games that are 20% longer (48 mins compared to 40 mins), he's facing more games per season and he'll be playing against faster opponents.

If you watch that game against Oden again, he did indeed play pretty well but his weaknesses were on display every bit as much as his strengths. I thought Georgetown wasted Hibbert's energy by having him go back and forth between posting up and setting picks up high, but it showed that he really tired easily.

He was huffing and puffing after this. He got tired and of course big guys who get tired start reaching and get in foul trouble, which is exactly what happened.

Unless you get some other really good incentive to trade down, I wouldn't see the point in taking a much less talented guy like Hibbert. If you're at #11 and can get a much more talented guy, then just stay at #11. Don't over think yourself.

Major Cold
05-26-2008, 03:10 PM
I really don't like his game in the NBA. I like his IQ, but his reaction to the play was slightly above average in college. What would it be in the NBA?

I think he would be a nice thrid big man off the bench. A player who comes in plays solid defense and picks up some fouls.

Jonathan
05-26-2008, 03:14 PM
My only questions about Roy Hibbert are as follows:
His speed
Does he fit Jim O'brein System?

tdubb03
05-26-2008, 04:09 PM
I just picked Marreese Speights for us in a mock draft on InsideHoops, I'd be interested in what thunderbird has to say about him.

Gamble1
05-26-2008, 04:30 PM
Of the all around big men Hibbert is the more proven "all around player." I really don't like his game bc of the reasons stated by others but I would rather have someone intelligent enough to play JOB's sytsem than some big who has potential to play in his system.

I would take Hibbert over Thabeet, McGee, Koufos and Speights. Jordans upside is hard to judge. So I'll hold my opinion on him.

Defensively I like Robin Lopez which I think Hibbert and Robin compliment JO if we are to keep him. If we don't keep him I like Robin's defense over anything offensively Hibbert could give to the pacers line up.

We need to defiantly address the center position through this draft. I hope LB can either trade down or get multiple picks in order to fill the void at center.

Gamble1
05-26-2008, 04:35 PM
I just picked Marreese Speights for us in a mock draft on InsideHoops, I'd be interested in what thunderbird has to say about him.

How do you view his defense? To me Speights only compounds the problem with mental toughness of the pacers.

The Pacers have already proven they can score on teams but they haven't shown that they can be mentally tough enough to play defense at a high level. Speights would be a good player to have if we could afford his shoddy defense.

PBB
05-26-2008, 07:03 PM
Excellent post, as usual T'Bird.

I was wondering what you thought of Hibbert, as I think the Pacers will try to draft a big man. With Harrison likely gone, Foster and JO getting older, plus what O'B said in his last radio broadcast about a top-level point defender being unavailable at draft#11, it would appear we would go for a big rather than an elite defender (or Augustin). It just makes sense.

Keep the posts coming. They're great reading.

stew
05-26-2008, 10:44 PM
good read, especially for those that dont have a chance to watch college basketball...

hope you do DeAndre Jordan next....

Shade
05-27-2008, 12:49 AM
Boourns to Hibbert.

Boourns, I say.

:thumbsdow

Kstat
05-27-2008, 12:51 AM
I wouldn't touch Hibbert at #11. He's a nice backup center at best.

Major Cold
05-27-2008, 07:37 AM
Hibbert is the black Jason Collier.

He's ready to take the title of 'Most Likely to Die of a Heart Attack on the Court" away from Eddy Curry.


Can we delete these blatant pushes to get banned.

Hicks
05-27-2008, 09:51 AM
Sassan wonders why he's not welcome here, and is offended we have the "nerve" to ban him after we give him a leash he didn't deserve in the first place. It's sad.

Will Galen
05-27-2008, 10:19 AM
Sassan wonders why he's not welcome here, and is offended we have the "nerve" to ban him after we give him a leash he didn't deserve in the first place. It's sad.

If Sassan really wanted to discuss the Pacers he would quit getting himself banned. *It's just asking for trouble*

As for Roy Hibbert I won't be as upset if the Pacers take him after reading T-Birds enlightning post.

Hicks
05-27-2008, 10:39 AM
Sorry, Will, but I am playing it safe.

SoupIsGood
05-27-2008, 10:43 AM
Sassan wonders why he's not welcome here, and is offended we have the "nerve" to ban him after we give him a leash he didn't deserve in the first place. It's sad.


Wait... I thought that was the poster formerly known as Naptown Seth? (Before we got the good Seth here).

:confused:

Hicks
05-27-2008, 10:43 AM
Probably the same person.

Will Galen
05-27-2008, 10:43 AM
Sorry, Will, but I am playing it safe.
That's fine I understand, I was just making an observation, not trying to start something.

SoupIsGood
05-27-2008, 10:46 AM
Probably the same person.

As in like, Sass and N Seth (bad one) and Kofi... all the same?


:eek:


The more recent incarnations have such a different posting style... that's real dedication.

Naptown_Seth
05-27-2008, 11:18 AM
I really don't like his game in the NBA. I like his IQ, but his reaction to the play was slightly above average in college. What would it be in the NBA?
I agree. This is one where I don't agree with T'bird completely. Or rather I don't agree with the MAGNITUDE he sees. The overall picture yes, but the rating of his good qualities is too high IMO.

T'bird is right, G'town often went away from him and he was asked to play away from the bucket a lot. He does have a solid core of fundamentals, but then this is exactly where my issue comes in. How does a 7 foot guy with overall good size and all these fundamentals not dominate in college, not find himself in the middle of more plays, not take over big games down the stretch?

He is way too mechanical, way too passive, and perhaps too slow all around for the NBA. He is clearly smarter than Thabeet, yet he doesn't really stand out against him. Where Thabeet is flawed by being one dimensional, Hibbert is flawed by being a bland jack of all trades. And in comparison to another big that works with fundamentals, Kevin Love, Hibbert just doesn't seem in the same park. Love is not doing it with speed or size obviously, so it falls to desire, a playmaker instinct or both.

I don't think he needs to be coached up, I think he needs to be fired up. Take him in the 20's? I guess, that does seem to be where he could fall. But Bill Cartwright with a pick that low? Seems doubtful to me, that would be quite a steal indeed. Maybe Tank Thompson in Greg Drieling's body instead.


I must admit though that I haven't watched him play for some time and would like to review him a bit more. Hopefully I'll have some free time at the end of the week as I try to piece together some footage on all these guys.




Look you bunch of losers, I AM THE BAD SETH. Get offended already. You're all smelly (that's not banable is it?).
Most Offensive 2009...but not banned (which disqualifies me).
Did I mention you are a bunch of moose loving hats (ie, Canadians)?
Most accurate smiley for this post: :-p or :devil: ?

NuffSaid
05-27-2008, 11:24 AM
I just picked Marreese Speights for us in a mock draft on InsideHoops, I'd be interested in what thunderbird has to say about him.
I'm interested in his assessment on Kosta Koufos. IMO, of all the top Centers/PFs to enter this year's draft, I think Koufos is by far the most well rounded of all of them.

Will Galen
05-27-2008, 01:10 PM
Look you bunch of losers, I AM THE BAD SETH. Get offended already. You're all smelly (that's not banable is it?).
Most Offensive 2009...but not banned (which disqualifies me).
Did I mention you are a bunch of moose loving hats (ie, Canadians)?
Most accurate smiley for this post: :-p or :devil: ?

I love you man! :devil:

Young
05-27-2008, 01:28 PM
Hibbert is not worth taking at 11.

He is too slow for the NBA. At 11 I would like to see someone who I think has a chance to be a starter in this league and Roy is not that.

He might be passive and no he didn't dominate but i'm not too worried about that because it just means he isn't a star. It doesn't mean he can't be a solid player.

My concern with Hibbert is defense, rebounding, and durability. I think he wil struggle to defend, he is a poor rebounder for a big, and I would worry about him lasting 82 games a year.

With that said I do like how Hibbert played in the Princeton offense and had to play away from the bucket. I think this will serve him well in the NBA. If we were to trade down into the late teens or 20s he might be ok but to be honest at that point I would rather take Robin Lopez instead of Hibbert.

Gyron
05-27-2008, 01:34 PM
Thanks for the detailed analysis Tbird.

I learn something new everytime I read one of your posts.

Speed
05-27-2008, 02:16 PM
I guess I dont' see him as a rotation player on a good team, ever. I could be wrong. But you don't draft your 5th big man on a roster in the first round.

It's funny, last year, I really thought he had promise to be a force.

eldubious
05-27-2008, 03:51 PM
I guess I dont' see him as a rotation player on a good team, ever. I could be wrong. But you don't draft your 5th big man on a roster in the first round.

It's funny, last year, I really thought he had promise to be a force.

Actually, he was a top ten pick last year, the pitfalls of going back to school.

avoidingtheclowns
05-27-2008, 04:22 PM
Actually, he was a top ten pick last year, the pitfalls of going back to school.

that was well before draft workouts though... who knows where he would have fallen after that. remember, mcroberts was predicted to be late-lotto / mid-first even up to the night of the draft and that really didn't happen.


i think hibbert will make a solid pro in the right situation. i think what he needs is a defensive-focused, halfcourt team like utah jumps out because they do need a defensive big with a frontline of okur and boozer. he could also fit in boston as the defensive big they need when perkins and KG go to the bench. cleveland and maybe even detroit too. but the pacers drafting him would be a big mistake if taken in the first. different story if carlisle was still here but at this point we need our bigs to be athletic (like a devon hardin).

RamBo_Lamar
06-26-2008, 11:11 PM
bump

Ramitt
06-26-2008, 11:31 PM
I don't hate this pick.

Isaac
06-26-2008, 11:35 PM
Hibbert is going to start for us at some point this year. I'm high on him.

SoupIsGood
06-26-2008, 11:35 PM
Anyone just notice that we drafted a big man who is excellent at setting picks and a sharpshooter who is great at working off the ball?

Danny and Brandon and Mikey running through picks set by Roy, getting the ball pitched to them by Ford and Jack? We could do better, but that sounds a hell of a lot better than last year.

Ramitt
06-26-2008, 11:42 PM
Anyone just notice that we drafted a big man who is excellent at setting picks and a sharpshooter who is great at working off the ball?

Danny and Brandon and Mikey running through picks set by Roy, getting the ball pitched to them by Ford and Jack? We could do better, but that sounds a hell of a lot better than last year.

Very much so, maybe the trades will historically not be the best deal, but hell it makes some sense. More so than the last several years of garbage.

CableKC
06-26-2008, 11:59 PM
I trust TBird's analysis on Hibbert. Listening to many of the Post-Draft radio shows...many analyst think that he's underrated and a good Big Man pick at 17.

For what Bird wants...players that will have an immediate impact...he's going to be solid. I think that he can do what Harrison was good at doing when he actually played.....hog up space in the paint, alter shots with his sheer size and length and provide some solid low-post defense while being an acceptable Low-Post scorer.

Kemo
06-27-2008, 05:08 AM
Hibbert hits game winning 3 point shot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbbPeSoMJ3Y

.
.
.
.

Kemo
06-27-2008, 05:12 AM
here is a real nice video on Roy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXqVThYIbDU


I am getting hyped for this new year of Pacer's basketball.. :dance::dance:

Will Galen
06-27-2008, 05:51 AM
T-Bird,

You said Roy was good at setting screens, and in your post on Rush you said, I quote; Rush is probably, from what I have seen, the best player in the draft at playing away from the ball offensively. He does many things from a fundamental perspective at a very advanced level, such as setting up cuts by faking away from the direction he is going to go to, and by cutting off screens low to the ground, so he is in shooting position with his knees flexed before he actually recieves the ball. In addition, Rush has a very impressive high release on his jump shot, which will help him be able to pretty much get his jump shot off whenever he wants at the NBA level. He wasn't asked to "read" screens often in the system at Kansas, but I believe his pedigree and skill levels tell you will do that well if asked.

My question is do you think Bird is looking for his own Smits/Davis/Miller combo?

Your posts gave me this idea, but it seems to me that if Roy can set picks like Dale Davis, and Brandon is good at getting off quick shots, that's a lot like Dale and Reggie, and if Roy's used to playing on the primeter maybe he could hit that deadly 15 footer like Rick Smits used to do.

With Danny and Mike here too, all Roy would have to do is hit it enough that someone couldn't sag off of him.

I'm not an x and o guy, or any sort of coach ,so this might be just dumb ideas.

SoupIsGood
06-27-2008, 08:20 AM
I hope Hibbert is as old-school of a rebounder as tbird says. I used to love when Dale would play the same way, engulfing one of the other team's big men and making rebounding much easier for the rest of the team.

Putnam
06-27-2008, 08:43 AM
Hoya Saxa!


.

SoupIsGood
06-27-2008, 11:07 AM
Sadly I'm not familiar with the player tbird went with as a comparison (before I started watching).

Am I the only one who sees a nifty jumpshot, passing skills, ability to work within the high post, good size, slow feet, and a number in the fifty-somethings and thinks of...

...

http://www.nba.com/media/act_brad_miller.jpg?

JayRedd
06-27-2008, 11:52 AM
I wish he had a more aggressive, dominating, aggressive approach to rebounding. Hibbert may lack the super intense nature that will make him as dominant as his skills would otherwise allow him to. In theory, Hibbert should be a strong rebounder and outlet passer, but too often on tape he isn't that at all. Now, some of the issue is that Georgetwon often used him offensively away from the basket, putting him out of position for put back opportunities. But defensively as a rebounder, you don't see Hibbert always aggressivley "hunting" for the basketball like I prefer. He is more of an old school coaching product, being taught to "blockout" and hold position, then react to the ball coming off the rim. This is how he has been taught to play, so it is hard to criticize him for it, but doing it this way hurts him because he lacks the explosiveness and quick twitch athleticism to be the first to the ball doing it this way at the NBA level. It is easy for us to imagine a player like Jeff Foster, for instance, out rebounding Hibbert because he is quicker and more aggressive.

Whether or not you think coaching can improve this one glaring weakness for Hibbert at the next level probably determines whether you like him as an overall player. Of course, some coaches (and some of you) still prefer this style of rebounding anyway, so seeing him "find/pivot/blockout/react" as a rebounding style rather than see him watch the ball and read its flight before attacking it aggressively won't annoy you as much as it does me.

It's hard to believe people still teach "box out and wait." I thought Barkley would have ended all that.

Although even if he can't be "retaught" aggresiveness, as someone else says, it may help our overall team rebounding (meaning Jeff and Troy mainly) to be aggressive if they know they will have some "clear out space" underneath to race towards. And maybe it will prompt Danny to venture within 12 feet of the hoop on occasion.

But what you say about the screens is probably the most important skill of his that will translate into helping up immediately. John Thompson clearly taught him this in a very refined way and he sets hard, stationary, wide-bodied screens and holds them for the optimal time. Getting around a 7'2" guy is hard enough as is, but by screening the way he does, it really will free up Danny, MDJ and Rush to look a little more like Rip or Reggie out there.

count55
06-27-2008, 12:01 PM
Sadly I'm not familiar with the player tbird went with as a comparison (before I started watching).

Am I the only one who sees a nifty jumpshot, passing skills, ability to work within the high post, good size, slow feet, and a number in the fifty-somethings and thinks of...

...

http://www.nba.com/media/act_brad_miller.jpg?


Cartwright averaged 13.2 pts and 6.3 rebs on .525 shooting over a 15-year career. He was the starting C for the Bulls 1st three-peat.

Regarding the "Medical" Bill nickname, I remember that, and I remember it seeming very fitting at the time. However, here are some numbers about that:

Over 15 yrs, he averaged 64 games played per year, but that includes only 42 & 29 in his last two years, and I don't know how many DNP-CD's he earned.

In his first five years in the league, he missed only 15 games, playing all 82 in his first, second, and 4th year, 72 in his third year, and 77 in his fifth year.

He broke his foot in his sixth season and played only 5 games. The following season, he only played 58. There were serious concerns about his career.

However, over the next four seasons, he missed only a total of 18 games.

So, even "Medical Bill" appears to be reliably healthy, by Pacer standards.

Pacemaker
06-27-2008, 06:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpfRLM9JX1U&feature=related
Hibbert looks pretty smart, mature and realiable in this interview with Utah. Some Utah fans even coveted him and thought he should have been a top 3 pick in last year's draft. Im glad we drafted him. He's ready.

LAPacer
06-28-2008, 12:25 AM
I liked this post over on draftexpress by KennerLeague


http://www.draftexpress.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6759&page=2





I wanted Hibbert to go to Utah. But as I wrote earlier Larry Bird really liked him. When the Pacers were rumored to be trading Jermain and getting that 17the pick I knew Bird was going to get Roy (unless Sacramento took him).

There have been some interesting conversations on the sports radio stations in DC the past week with guys like David Falk (agent) and Hibbert being interviewed. Falk told the host about how Larry Bird told him if the combines and workouts were around when he was coming out of college he would have hurt his draft stock. He better than anyone else may understand that a good basketball player doesn't have to be a great leaper and extremely fast. Kevin Love is probably barely faster up and down the court than Roy but does anyone hold that against him as much as they do with Hibbert? And how did Andrew Bogut get drafted at #1 when he is slow of foot as well? Falk brought up the same point I've been making for years in that we have all of this talk about athletic talent but in the post season its all about guys who can play effectively in the halfcourt and have true skills.

Hibbert relayed a great story today about how when he went to Indiana for the workouts he excelled in all the physical activities they put him through as well as in the games with other players. Then the session closed with one-on-one matchups and Hibbert (who normaly doesn't brag or boast) admitted that he won every matchup thoroughly and that guys he played against were rated higher than him on mock draft sites. After it was done he went up to Bird and asked if that was all he got. Larry Bird burst out laughing. I'm sure Bird could appreciate that type of question because Bird would probably say/ask the same thing back in the day. I'm sure Roy meant to be more sincere than cocky but Bird was entertained by the comment nonetheless. When the two later talked in the office Larry, according to Roy, flat out told Hibbert that he treated those other players like children.

Obviously Roy and Larry hit off well. Reading Bird's recent comments you could tell he has had it up to here with knuckleheads, guys that don't want to work and freshmen and/or sophmores who are supposed to have all this upside but are years away from contributing. He wanted mature guys with a better work ethic. Will this backfire? Maybe. But a day or two before the draft Bird gave away his leanings when he told an Indy newspaper than Hibbert can contribute from "day one." That's a similiar consensus that NBA personnel who worked out Hibbert seemed to have come to.

Hibbert took some big hits from the media after the draft (especially some BRUTAL comments by online writers). But its interesting that no-nonsense guys like Bird, Larry Brown, Jerry Sloan, etc seemed high on his prospects. Then again he did do well in his workouts. His agent, Falk, said point-blank that Hibbert "crushed" guys like McGee and DeAndre Jordan. When reading numerous reports on his performances I noticed that GMs, coaches, players and reporters praised how hard he played in the workouts, that his listed height appeared legit, that he was in the best shape of his life and beating the more athletic prospects up the court, that his hands were great, that he displayed great ability to score with either hand when posting up, that he was very skilled, well-drilled and fundamentally sound, that he shot the ball (faceup jumper) extremely well and that he was impressive with his passing skills. Most of all he impressed everyone with his maturity and his business-like approach in conducting himself during the workouts and during the interview process.

Still the stigma about the lack of athleticism and his reputation for his lack of aggression has hurt him. Larry Bird pointed out to a journalist days ago that if Hibbert was selected by the Pacers he must be able to keep up in Jim O'Brien's ofense. Hibbert understands that he must keep improving his lateral quickness and stamina and that he must stay more aggressive. All reports indicate that he is indeed improving in all those areas. After being drafted last night he did not go out and celebrate until the break of dawn. He went to sleep early because he had to get up at 6 AM to continue his own privavte workouts that he's been doing non-stop since his college season came to an end in March. You think anyone else chosen in the first round would do something like that on the morning after being drafted? I don't think any second round pick likely did that either. Hibbert is planning on moving out to Indiana next week to start working with the Pacers staff in order to get a jump on other rookies in the league. Say what you want about him but the guy's work ethic is amazing.

Hicks
06-28-2008, 12:37 AM
That article has me pumped up to see him wearing a Pacers jersey!

Makes me dream of him being what we hoped David Harrison could be back when David was a rookie, but never happened.

Hoop
06-28-2008, 12:50 AM
That's a great write up. I was happy with the pick to begin with, that makes me even happier.

CableKC
06-28-2008, 03:18 AM
It's hard to believe people still teach "box out and wait." I thought Barkley would have ended all that.

Although even if he can't be "retaught" aggresiveness, as someone else says, it may help our overall team rebounding (meaning Jeff and Troy mainly) to be aggressive if they know they will have some "clear out space" underneath to race towards. And maybe it will prompt Danny to venture within 12 feet of the hoop on occasion.

But what you say about the screens is probably the most important skill of his that will translate into helping up immediately. John Thompson clearly taught him this in a very refined way and he sets hard, stationary, wide-bodied screens and holds them for the optimal time. Getting around a 7'2" guy is hard enough as is, but by screening the way he does, it really will free up Danny, MDJ and Rush to look a little more like Rip or Reggie out there.
Isn't "boxing and clearing out space" in the paint something that we often complained about this team?

I can't recall how many times in the game threads that I see you guys post about our Frontcourt not effectively "boxing out" the opposing players.

If Hibbert is good at doing this....obviously taught by John Thompson III....then this maybe a good thing.

CableKC
06-28-2008, 03:26 AM
Good God.....I think that we actually picked a really good Center. I am really stoked after reading that article about Hibbert.

I think that we have finally found a replacement for "JONeal, the Center"...next season...we find a replacement for "JONeal, the PF".

One more thing....after reading about how bad of a relationship that JONeal had with Bird....I'm really glad that Hibbert and Bird hit it off.

hoopsforlife
06-28-2008, 09:02 AM
After listening to Hibbert's interview and reading this article, I am really stoked about his possibilities. I really like B. Rush's attitude and work ethic and adding Roy into this mix is going to be powerful. You take a Mike Dunleavy, Jeff Foster maturity level coupled with real talent of Danny Granger and TJ Ford, they have the ability to be something special.

These are the types of guys you win chamionships with. I can't wait for the season to begin.

Now to finish the house cleaning effort by getting rid of Tinsley, Harrison and Daniels this is shaping up to be a really good summer.

Major Cold
06-28-2008, 09:10 AM
talk is cheap. WE got rid of a talker. I want action. I cannot get excited about this talk. I want Hibby to show what he can do, starting the summer league.

TripleThreat
06-28-2008, 09:20 AM
After being drafted last night he did not go out and celebrate until the break of dawn. He went to sleep early because he had to get up at 6 AM to continue his own privavte workouts that he's been doing non-stop since his college season came to an end in March.

We know about his skills, and what he can do on the court. THIS quote is what cements him as a solid pick.

Point being that getting to the NBA is not his goal...SUCCEEDING in the NBA is, and he's taking the right approach to achieve that goal. Very professional attitude and mind state.

I'm enjoying this pick more and more.

count55
06-28-2008, 09:29 AM
I should've known we'd get Hibbert when I put on my customized Pacer jersey for the draft.

Any guesses as to the number?

Justin Tyme
06-28-2008, 10:14 AM
I should've known we'd get Hibbert when I put on my customized Pacer jersey for the draft.

Any guesses as to the number?

No, but I'll guess Rush's will be #25.

Oh btw, Thursday I was going to Noblesville when I saw this eating establishment called Britton Tavern. I thought where have I seen that name b4? Then it came to me it's your avatar. The food any good?

count55
06-28-2008, 10:32 AM
No, but I'll guess Rush's will be #25.

Oh btw, Thursday I was going to Noblesville when I saw this eating establishment called Britton Tavern. I thought where have I seen that name b4? Then it came to me it's your avatar. The food any good?

Excellent...for bar food.

Great wings and soft pretzels. A good Cajun chicken wrap. Good sandwiches.

(I'm fine with Rush wearing #25, but I still think it should be retired in honor of Billy Knight, our first (and only, for a long time) good NBA player...but that's just a personal thing)

BTW...what number do you think a guy who's username is count55 might put on a personalized jersey?

Putnam
06-28-2008, 10:37 AM
BTW...what number do you think a guy who's username is count55 might put on a personalized jersey?


Fitty-five?

.

count55
06-28-2008, 10:41 AM
Fitty-five?

.

You got it...I'm hoping Hibbert restores the lustre to that number tarnished by Zan Tabak and Brent Scott.

JayRedd
06-28-2008, 03:19 PM
Isn't "boxing and clearing out space" in the paint something that we often complained about this team?

I can't recall how many times in the game threads that I see you guys post about our Frontcourt not effectively "boxing out" the opposing players.

If Hibbert is good at doing this....obviously taught by John Thompson III....then this maybe a good thing.

I don't have a huge problem with it when the guy is 7'2". I was speaking more in generalities. It's just baffling why guys like Amare, Stro Swift and spend so much time stationary waiting for the ball to bounce towards them. You're the most athletic guy on the court...just go get the damn ball. Fundamental boxing out is still important, of course, but if more of these uber-athletic 7-footers were just more aggressive (looking at you Kwame), guys like Foster, Najera and Nick Collison would probably be out of work.

Barkley had it pretty much down to a science. Then Rodman made it artwork. He was the perfect blend of both styles and grabbed probably four extra boards every night solely because he knew exactly which style to employ even while the shot was still in flight. And I haven't seen that much tape, honestly, but I've heard Bill Russell pretty much invented it.



the session closed with one-on-one matchups and Hibbert (who normaly doesn't brag or boast) admitted that he won every matchup thoroughly and that guys he played against were rated higher than him on mock draft sites. After it was done he went up to Bird and asked if that was all he got. Larry Bird burst out laughing. I'm sure Bird could appreciate that type of question because Bird would probably say/ask the same thing back in the day. I'm sure Roy meant to be more sincere than cocky but Bird was entertained by the comment nonetheless. When the two later talked in the office Larry, according to Roy, flat out told Hibbert that he treated those other players like children.

Greatest thing I've heard in weeks.

Let's go Roy.

Fun Fact: When he got to GTown, he was known as "The Big Stiff." No word on whether Stan Van Gundy filed suit for copyright infringement.

Rajah Brown
06-28-2008, 03:51 PM
Hibbert's skill-set, hoops-IQ and the like are out of sight for a kid
his size. If he can play at a 'highly conditioned' 265 or so, he'll be
a signifigant factor in the Pacers future.

CableKC
06-28-2008, 06:35 PM
I don't have a huge problem with it when the guy is 7'2". I was speaking more in generalities. It's just baffling why guys like Amare, Stro Swift and spend so much time stationary waiting for the ball to bounce towards them. You're the most athletic guy on the court...just go get the damn ball. Fundamental boxing out is still important, of course, but if more of these uber-athletic 7-footers were just more aggressive (looking at you Kwame), guys like Foster, Najera and Nick Collison would probably be out of work.

Barkley had it pretty much down to a science. Then Rodman made it artwork. He was the perfect blend of both styles and grabbed probably four extra boards every night solely because he knew exactly which style to employ even while the shot was still in flight. And I haven't seen that much tape, honestly, but I've heard Bill Russell pretty much invented it.
Although it is always good for players like Foster to go for the rebound.....it sounds like it is as important to have players that can box players out so that the rest of the team can go scramble for the rebound.

How are players like Murphy and Foster when it comes to boxing out?

Although I am concerned about the offense....you have to wonder how a Hibbert/Murphy ( or Foster ) Frontcourt will do to improve our rebounding efforts.

Tom White
06-28-2008, 07:33 PM
talk is cheap. WE got rid of a talker. I want action. I cannot get excited about this talk. I want Hibby to show what he can do, starting the summer league.

You've just found Slick a nickname for Hibbert. Congrats!

AesopRockOn
06-29-2008, 12:54 AM
Has anyone besides T-Bird watched him play this year? I mean, that's almost as important as reading a news article, right?

Kuq_e_Zi91
06-29-2008, 07:05 AM
Living in DC, I've watched him play since high school at Gtown Prep. Our high school played against them regularly and even though we had some talent, Hibbert just dominated us, and the rest of the conference. I know that was just high school, so let's talk about college. I went to some of his games at Gtown and when I see him play I see a lot of positives. His passing ability out of the post reminds me of Chris Webber, but he's much bigger than Chris Webber. So to have that body and be able to do that makes it even more special. What the Hoyas did was surround him with shooters like Jonathan Wallace and Jessie Sapp, so that when they threw it in to him in the post, he would kick it back and hit them for open 3s or jumpers. I can see this happening with Granger and Dunleavy. He's smart enough to realize the double coming and dish it to the right person. Also if you don't bring a double, and he's one-on-one deep enough in the post, he's gonna score pretty much every time and I think you can see that in his FG%. The problem is when he's on the perimeter, like TBird mentioned. He's not really used to hitting that jumper or driving the lane with force. He has improved his shooting though, and his ability to hit free throws is a plus because most bigs struggle and he gets fouled a lot. Basically what you'll get is hard work every minute he's on the floor. If he needs to work on something, you know he will, just to improve his game and be the best he can be.

I love the pick, and I love having a hometown guy play for my favorite team. The whole block basically heard me when the Pacers picked him, and I got a lot of hate from my friends here because the Wizards picked 18th and they desperately needed a center.

owl
06-29-2008, 08:05 AM
I would wager money(small amounts :-) ), that Washington would have taken him at 18.
I was hoping no one would pick him before 17. After 17 all the bigs were taken.
One thing I cannot find are his true measurables such as height w/o shoes and reach etc...
Anyone ever seen these?

Raskolnikov
06-29-2008, 08:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpfRLM9JX1U&feature=related
Hibbert looks pretty smart, mature and realiable in this interview with Utah. Some Utah fans even coveted him and thought he should have been a top 3 pick in last year's draft. Im glad we drafted him. He's ready.
Agreed, he seems like a very smart guy. Maybe even too smart: he said "obviously" a lot ;)

Putnam
06-29-2008, 08:27 AM
Has anyone besides T-Bird watched him play this year? I mean, that's almost as important as reading a news article, right?

Yeah, 2 games this year and a couple last year. Tbabyyy has seen more than me and gives a good assessment.

Hibbert would rather score over somebody than push through them. He doesn't feel the need to dunk. He can score with both hands and has a good hook shot. He's a very good passer. He's not going to be the shot blocker JO was, but he'll probably play satisfactory defense except against the faster teams.

I'm sure he's going to be a strong asset, though O'Brien has a lot of work ahead of him to get this entirely new team all on the same page.

Anthem
06-29-2008, 08:35 AM
The guy sounds too good to be true at a #17 pick. Is his athleticism really that bad to push him that low?

Raskolnikov
06-29-2008, 08:37 AM
Living in DC, I've watched him play since high school at Gtown Prep. Our high school played against them regularly and even though we had some talent, Hibbert just dominated us, and the rest of the conference. I know that was just high school, so let's talk about college. I went to some of his games at Gtown and when I see him play I see a lot of positives. His passing ability out of the post reminds me of Chris Webber, but he's much bigger than Chris Webber. So to have that body and be able to do that makes it even more special. What the Hoyas did was surround him with shooters like Jonathan Wallace and Jessie Sapp, so that when they threw it in to him in the post, he would kick it back and hit them for open 3s or jumpers. I can see this happening with Granger and Dunleavy. He's smart enough to realize the double coming and dish it to the right person. Also if you don't bring a double, and he's one-on-one deep enough in the post, he's gonna score pretty much every time and I think you can see that in his FG%. The problem is when he's on the perimeter, like TBird mentioned. He's not really used to hitting that jumper or driving the lane with force. He has improved his shooting though, and his ability to hit free throws is a plus because most bigs struggle and he gets fouled a lot. Basically what you'll get is hard work every minute he's on the floor. If he needs to work on something, you know he will, just to improve his game and be the best he can be.
Thanks for the write-up. Obviously, I love guys with high FG% (TJ too!). I think the O'Neal trade might be considered as genious in a couple of years. Heck, I already think it's brilliant now.

Rajah Brown
06-29-2008, 08:42 AM
Tbaby-

I really think that Hibbert will be a guy who can be used in pick-and-
pops from out to 16-18 feet or so. He screens very well, has
a nice touch from out there and (as you alluded to) is a terrific passer.

Wether we have a PG/perimeter/wing guy quick enough and effective
enough off the bounce who also shoots it well enough to run the
p-and-p with him is an open question.

Kuq_e_Zi91
06-29-2008, 08:49 AM
Wether we have a PG/perimeter/wing guy quick enough and effective
enough off the bounce who also shoots it well enough to run the
p-and-p with him is an open question.


Well, when you say quick, of course TJ comes to mind. Can he hit that mid range jumper though? That would be an amazing combo I'd love to see for years. When you say shoots it well enough, B. Rush comes to mind. That might work as well. Man, I wish we could see these guys in summer league playing together... it would help soo much.

Raskolnikov
06-29-2008, 08:55 AM
As far as I know, TJ has pretty good mid-range jumper (hence his FG%), but I'm sure they are others who have seen him play more often (rcarey/sweabs?).

avoidingtheclowns
06-29-2008, 09:37 AM
I would wager money(small amounts :-) ), that Washington would have taken him at 18.

without question - they need help up front.

my real question (and one that was echoed by wizard fans here) is how do you go from targeting a guy that is NBA ready (like hibbert) then draft mcgee who was the most unready of the bigs in the draft? i'm stunned the wizards didn't trade the pick.


One thing I cannot find are his true measurables such as height w/o shoes and reach etc...
Anyone ever seen these?

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=2008&sort2=ASC&draft=0&sort=

that is the database but hibbert isn't included. kinda weird.

Hicks
06-29-2008, 11:55 AM
Yeah I looked yesterday for that, and neither Brandon or Roy are in there.

d_c
06-29-2008, 12:22 PM
The guy sounds too good to be true at a #17 pick. Is his athleticism really that bad to push him that low?


In a word, yes.

Rewatch that game of him vs. Oden last March. I give nothing but credit to Hibbert for the game he had vs. Oden, but watching it really illustrated his weaknesses as much as his strengths.

The guy just got winded very easily. I thought Georgetown made him waste a lot of energy by having him CONSTANTLY run back and forth between setting screens up high and posting up down low, but you could see this really tired him out. And keep in mind the NBA game lasts 20% longer than college.

Once he tired, he started reaching on defense and got in foul trouble. And although it's unfair to compare him to Greg Oden, you could pretty easily see that Oden did a way better job of controlling the boards. Hibbert just wasn't very quick to the ball.

I like Hibbert for his scoring touch and overall good offensive feel. Just a question of how much his lack of athleticism/conditioning limits him. He really needs to bump up his stamina or else that issue alone makes him a career backup.

JayRedd
06-29-2008, 01:33 PM
In a word, yes.

Rewatch that game of him vs. Oden last March. I give nothing but credit to Hibbert for the game he had vs. Oden, but watching it really illustrated his weaknesses as much as his strengths.

The guy just got winded very easily. I thought Georgetown made him waste a lot of energy by having him CONSTANTLY run back and forth between setting screens up high and posting up down low, but you could see this really tired him out. And keep in mind the NBA game lasts 20% longer than college.

Once he tired, he started reaching on defense and got in foul trouble. And although it's unfair to compare him to Greg Oden, you could pretty easily see that Oden did a way better job of controlling the boards. Hibbert just wasn't very quick to the ball.

I like Hibbert for his scoring touch and overall good offensive feel. Just a question of how much his lack of athleticism/conditioning limits him. He really needs to bump up his stamina or else that issue alone makes him a career backup.

In his defense, I can't recall a single young guy over 7'1" that didn't have significant conditioning issues. But, yes, you are certainly correct. He won't be playing more than 20 mpg his rookie year.

rexnom
06-29-2008, 01:47 PM
In his defense, I can't recall a single young guy over 7'1" that didn't have significant conditioning issues. But, yes, you are certainly correct. He won't be playing more than 20 mpg his rookie year.
And that's OK for a rookie big man. I'm not so sure Oden will start right away. He'll be behind Rasho, Foster and Murphy on the depth chart anyway.

Bball
06-29-2008, 02:01 PM
So where does Hibbert fit in when compared to Rik Smits? Smits wasn't exactly a gazelle. ...And his rebounding left something to be desired. ...But he was able to fill a role for this team.

Is Hibbert's footspeed less than Smits'? Is his athleticism less than Smits?

He seems to have size, a good attitude, and a strong grasp of fundamentals so I'm curious if we're seeing people knock him for not being Wilt Chamberlain or if we're just over-valuing athleticism to some point. We don't have to have the most athletic, fastest center to ever play the game manning the position. I'll be happy if he's solid. ...OTOH if you're saying his ceiling is somewhere under Rik Smits then I can understand the worries about quickness.

imawhat
06-29-2008, 02:19 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idUSN3030689120070330?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0


Oden vs. Hibbert should be NCAA Tournament highlight

By Steve Ginsburg

ATLANTA (Reuters) - Ohio State's Greg Oden and Georgetown's Roy Hibbert have taken vastly different paths to their highly anticipated match-up in Saturday's semi-finals of the NCAA Tournament.

Oden, a seven-foot, 280-pound freshman, made an immediate impact when he walked on campus and is expected to be the top pick in the NBA draft should he leave school after the season.

Georgetown (30-6) has its own dominant big man, 7-foot-2 junior Hibbert, whose match-up against Oden should be one of the highlights of the tournament.

In contrast to Oden, however, Hibbert was not an overnight success.

"When you see Roy Hibbert today, he's so much different than what he was three years ago, two years ago when he walked in the door as a freshman, someone we literally had to show how to run, how to catch," Georgetown coach John Thompson III said.

The winner of Saturday night's Ohio State-Georgetown affair will face either defending champion Florida or UCLA for the national title on Monday night.

It is unlikely Georgetown would have gotten this far without the emergence of Hibbert, the Hoyas' second-leading scorer (12.7 points a game) and top rebounder (6.9) and shot-blocker (2.5).

Thompson said the best is yet to come.

"Four, five, 10 years from now, he'll be light years ahead of where he is now," Thompson said. "He is someone that is a sponge. He is someone that is extremely intelligent and has been extremely willing with everything that we've shown him."

Ohio State coach Thad Matta is a believer, having watched Hibbert score 20 points, grab 14 rebounds and block three shots against the Buckeyes in the second round of last year's NCAA Tournament.

"He's really fine-tuned all of his skills," Matta told reporters Friday. "He understands the game even better because he's a year older. I thought last year when we played him he was one of the best big men I'd seen.

"Now watching him on film, I couldn't agree more. He's a tremendous talent. It's his athleticism. He moves well and he can finish around the basket with either hand. And the size factor is always going to be there."

While Oden is the best center in the nation, averaging 15.4 points for the 34-4 Buckeyes, Hibbert is not far behind and should be an NBA lottery pick when he leaves Georgetown.



I feel good about his potential by reading things like this. Now I understand the nickname "The Big Stiff". If he's progressed that much in 4 years, and he's 21, and he's willing, his only limit will be his conditioning and assertiveness.

I wasn't super-thrilled with the pick, but I've liked everything I've read about him lately.

AesopRockOn
06-29-2008, 09:59 PM
For those who watched the Hoyas fold against Curry, do you think that the gameplan was flawed or was it that Hibbert was making himself ineffective or what? Watching that game live really showed me at least how slow he was and how different he looked from the game vs Oden. All I was thinking during that game was, wow GTown needs a new coach, and Hibbert isn't going to play in the NBA. Just wondering because that's my POR for the guy.

ABADays
06-29-2008, 10:17 PM
So where does Hibbert fit in when compared to Rik Smits? Smits wasn't exactly a gazelle. ...And his rebounding left something to be desired. ...But he was able to fill a role for this team.

The NBA had to create a new category for Smits RTFIHH (Rebounds That Fell Into His Hands) or Rik wouldn't have had any.

BlueNGold
06-29-2008, 11:07 PM
So where does Hibbert fit in when compared to Rik Smits? Smits wasn't exactly a gazelle. ...And his rebounding left something to be desired. ...But he was able to fill a role for this team.

Is Hibbert's footspeed less than Smits'? Is his athleticism less than Smits?

He seems to have size, a good attitude, and a strong grasp of fundamentals so I'm curious if we're seeing people knock him for not being Wilt Chamberlain or if we're just over-valuing athleticism to some point. We don't have to have the most athletic, fastest center to ever play the game manning the position. I'll be happy if he's solid. ...OTOH if you're saying his ceiling is somewhere under Rik Smits then I can understand the worries about quickness.

I'm warming up to Hibbert and am now in wait-and-see mode. Primarily, I think the guy is going to learn how to be effective in the NBA....and I think he tends to step up to a challenge. As for the Smits comparison, Rik had a deadly midrange game. Hibbert is more likely to post-up, set screens and pass. If he works out, there will be intangibles he brings that will be quite valuable and will not show up on the stat sheet. Also, I've already seen enough of him to know he's not soft. He may be the most physical player we've had here in years...and although he will be slow motion, he will likely be smart enough to get in position and get fouled...and he can shoot from the line which is crucial for him.

Placebo
06-30-2008, 02:13 AM
Some numbers from DX...
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Just-By-The-Numbers--Evaluating-This-Year-s-Center-Crop-2941/

He ranked fairly high on most of the categories.

Putnam
06-30-2008, 09:15 AM
Is Hibbert's footspeed less than Smits'? Is his athleticism less than Smits?

Remember how much of the time Smits had trouble with foot pain? He was limited by pain for much of his career. I haven't read anything suggesting Hibbert has similar problems, with feet or his back. So the kid can continue to add speed to his technique. As far as speed is concerned, Smits is Hibbert's floor, not his ceiling.

The Unknown
06-30-2008, 03:29 PM
Hibbert was a steal at #17. Skilled 7'2" centers with high basketball IQs don't grow on trees. His median is Zydrunas Ilgauskas.

Unclebuck
07-01-2008, 12:03 AM
any one else hear the female sports writer that was on Eddie and Kravitz show earlier today. She was a writer from the Washington post, and she couldn't stop raving what kind of as person Hibbert is. He aways returned reporters phone calls and was always on time for interviws. Edie and bob said he sounded too good to be true, someone you would want to marrry your daughter

Infinite MAN_force
07-01-2008, 12:39 AM
any one else hear the female sports writer that was on Eddie and Kravitz show earlier today. She was a writer from the Washington post, and she couldn't stop raving what kind of as person Hibbert is. He aways returned reporters phone calls and was always on time for interviws. Edie and bob said he sounded too good to be true, someone you would want to marrry your daughter

I heard it.

Pacers really hit a homerun with character in this draft with Hibbert and Rush. As much as I talked about Speights, He seemed to have character concerns. I am glad we got Hibbert instead. Though Speights was at the top of a lot of the categories Placebo posted too... Don't be surprised to see Philly in the playoffs again next year.

Pig Nash
07-01-2008, 06:48 PM
And that's OK for a rookie big man. I'm not so sure Oden will start right away. He'll be behind Rasho, Foster and Murphy on the depth chart anyway.

We picked up Oden in that trade???? Awesome! :dance:

thunderbird1245
05-02-2009, 12:28 AM
In preparation for my upcoming 2009 draft analysis threads that will begin later in May, I thought it would be fun to review the analysis I and everyone else gave on the players we would eventually end up with on draft night.

We can all review what we stated that ended up being right, or being wrong.

Tbird

Anthem
05-02-2009, 01:46 PM
Wow. Good call here, tbird. We're reading it a year later, but you nailed it exactly.

Infinite MAN_force
05-02-2009, 04:54 PM
Yeah I would say this one was dead on. I think you were pretty close on Rush as well though I think you underated his defense a bit. Pretty immpressive anyway.

ABADays
05-02-2009, 05:36 PM
Hibbert is a guy you can real pull for.

d_c
05-02-2009, 07:13 PM
Hibbert's better than I thought he'd be. He really slimmed down and he's more mobile than he was in college. Still think he needs to up his conditioning if he ever wants to be a 30 min/game starter . (Note that he never averaged more than 26 mins a game in his 3 years in college)

flox
05-04-2009, 02:44 AM
The offensive part was great, but you oversold his defense.

Major Cold
05-04-2009, 07:57 AM
I was completely wrong (as was Seth) but to our defense it was an assessment on his college productivity and presence (as did Tbird, but shut up I am trying to save face).

Hibbert is a hard worker, that above all else will help him to overcompesate his weaknesses. I think we should never expect him to play more than 30 mpg. Thus we still need a backup with size. A young Foster would be ideal.

Kemo
05-04-2009, 08:16 AM
A young PF BETTER THAN Foster would be ideal.
fixed ..

:-p

naptownmenace
05-04-2009, 05:00 PM
Hibbert was a steal at #17. Skilled 7'2" centers with high basketball IQs don't grow on trees. His median is Zydrunas Ilgauskas.

I found this statement from a year ago very interesting. That's what a lot of people were saying by the end of the season.

Gamble1
01-11-2012, 03:34 PM
Sorry guys but I wanted to focus on something positive this afternoon so I bumped this thread. Its pretty funny to read all the old comments on Hibby and I am glad he's doing so well as of late..

Hibbert right now among centers ranks 6th in scoring and FG%, 7th in rebounds per game and third in double double games.

Infinite MAN_force
01-11-2012, 04:31 PM
Some people (NBA writers) thought Hibbert at 17 was too high, most people here thought there was no way we should pick him at 11. Yet, if you did a re-draft that year, Hibbert would have a shot at being top 5. Here's how I would do the top ten.

1. Derrick Rose
2. Kevin Love
3. Russel Westbrook
4. Eric Gordon
5. Roy Hibbert
6. Brook Lopez
7. DJ Augustin
8. Danilo Gallinari
9. Serge Ibaka
10. George Hill

Micheal Beasely (maybe he should be top ten, I just think hes a losing player) OJ Mayo, Javale Mcgee, Nicolas Batum, Robin Lopez, JJ Hickson, Our own Brandon Rush, etc... coming in some time after that. That was a pretty strong draft. Some big time talent at the top, a lot of starters and solid rotation players going deep.

You could make an argument for Mcgee or Beasely over Hill, I'm probably being Pacer biased. That said, notice I didn't even include Jerryd Bayless in the discussion. :devil:

Trader Joe
01-11-2012, 04:33 PM
If only Eric Gordon had dropped instead of Bayless....

vnzla81
01-11-2012, 04:34 PM
Brook Lopez should be before Hibbert, 20 and 7 for him last year is not bad.

Peck
01-11-2012, 04:35 PM
Some people (NBA writers) thought Hibbert at 17 was too high, most people here thought there was no way we should pick him at 11. Yet, if you did a re-draft that year, Hibbert would have a shot at being top 5. Here's how I would do the top ten.

1. Derrick Rose
2. Kevin Love
3. Russel Westbrook
4. Eric Gordon
5. Roy Hibbert
6. Brook Lopez
7. DJ Augustin
8. Danilo Gallinari
9. Serge Ibaka
10. George Hill

Micheal Beasely (maybe he should be top ten, I just think hes a losing player) OJ Mayo, Javale Mcgee, Nicolas Batum, Robin Lopez, JJ Hickson, Our own Brandon Rush, etc... coming in some time after that. That was a pretty strong draft. Some big time talent at the top, a lot of starters and solid rotation players going deep.

You could make an argument for Mcgee or Beasely over Hill, I'm probably being Pacer biased. That said, notice I didn't even include Jerryd Bayless in the discussion. :devil:

What's really great is that if we go by your re-draft (which I think is pretty accurate) we have two of the top 10 players in that draft on our team.

D@mn if feels good to be a Pacers fan again.

Infinite MAN_force
01-11-2012, 04:36 PM
Brook Lopez should be before Hibbert, 20 and 7 for him last year is not bad.

In previous years, maybe. I think Hibbert has passed him. For all the complaints of Hibbert being soft, Lopez is charmin soft. His rebounding has gotten worse while Hibbert's has improved.

Peck
01-11-2012, 04:36 PM
Hibbert is a guy you can real pull for.

ABAdays always knew how to pick them.

Man I still miss him.

vnzla81
01-11-2012, 04:38 PM
In previous years, maybe. I think Hibbert has passed him. For all the complaints of Hibbert being soft, Lopez is charmin soft. His rebounding has gotten worse while Hibbert's has improved.

I agree with you, trust me I was amazed when I found out that Brooke Lopez average that last year :laugh: I just think that if we are going by stats Brooke should go before Hibbert.

edit: Brooke average 20 and 6 ;)

vnzla81
01-11-2012, 04:45 PM
By the way I remember that the year before Hibbert was drafted he was expected to be a least a top ten pick but he decided to go back to school making his value drop a lot.

TheDon
01-11-2012, 04:57 PM
I agree with you, trust me I was amazed when I found out that Brooke Lopez average that last year :laugh: I just think that if we are going by stats Brooke should go before Hibbert.

edit: Brooke average 20 and 6 ;)

I think Lopez is the Troy Murhpy of centers....hollow stats

vnzla81
01-11-2012, 05:10 PM
I think Lopez is the Troy Murhpy of centers....hollow stats

I agree but stats are stats, there is a reason why Orlando was thinking about getting him for Howard, a ridiculous thing to do in my opinion.

daschysta
01-11-2012, 05:18 PM
Lopez is a proven scorer, but I wouldn't take him over Hibs in any other category, and I think at this point Hibs is simply a better player.

Put this years Hibs on this years new jersey, or last years and he'd average 17-9 or so with much better defense than Brook.

Hibbert is becoming one of the top centers in the game. A far cry from that uncoordinated giant he was when we drafted him.

daschysta
01-11-2012, 05:19 PM
I agree but stats are stats, there is a reason why Orlando was thinking about getting him for Howard, a ridiculous thing to do in my opinion.

Also I don't think Orlando was seriously considering that offer, and if they were it was only because they were getting lowballed and had no choice since dwight pretty clearly spelled out which teams he would resign with/ agree to get traded to.

Doddage
01-11-2012, 05:25 PM
When's the deadline to extend Hibbert before the offseason?

vnzla81
01-11-2012, 05:28 PM
Lopez is a proven scorer, but I wouldn't take him over Hibs in any other category, and I think at this point Hibs is simply a better player.

Put this years Hibs on this years new jersey, or last years and he'd average 17-9 or so with much better defense than Brook.

Hibbert is becoming one of the top centers in the game. A far cry from that uncoordinated giant he was when we drafted him.

I agree, never I'm my wildest dreams I ever thought that Brook was better than Hibbert until I went to see his stats, when I saw that Orlando/NJ trade for Howard I was laughing at the thought of Brook's been traded for Howard, I never really thought highly of the guy, I actually like his brother better.

imawhat
01-11-2012, 05:40 PM
Aha! Found the predraft workout comments to Bird in that KennerLeaguer post.

This was great to read. I've been more critical of Hibbert than most Pacers, but it's a compliment to Roy because I believe in him and expect him to improve. He is so, so close to being a near unstoppable player. One consistent skyhook gets him there.

I'm glad he's a Pacer. He's been one of the easiest guys I've rooted for.

TheDon
01-11-2012, 05:50 PM
I was a believer in Roy since his first game against the Hornets in the Pepsi Colliseum a couple years ago. It was just a meaningless preseason game but Hibbert I think actually seemed to be the only player that gave a damn in that game. He got into it with Melvin Ely (I think it was) and Roy backed him right back down and let him know he wasn't gonna put up with that BS and promptly got ejected from the game. I went out and bought my Roy Hibbert jersey right then and there lol. I knew he was far too passionate and cared too much for him to ever be a slouch in this league. Having someone that actually cared about the way things on the team were going was VERY refreshing compared to just a year or two before.

Gamble1
01-12-2012, 11:16 AM
When's the deadline to extend Hibbert before the offseason?
Jan 25th... I doubt it happens even though I think we could get him for less if we did extend him before the summer hits.

picasso
01-12-2012, 11:25 AM
I'll take IBAKA over Hibbert. Much more of a defensive presence and has a sweet shots at time. Nothing against Hibby. He's a huge fan fave and has his area 55. But I love Ibaka and watch a lot of Thunder games. The man is a specimen of a freak. He needs more alley oops and needs to develop a better post game.

Justin Tyme
01-12-2012, 11:44 AM
I'll take IBAKA over Hibbert. Much more of a defensive presence and has a sweet shots at time. Nothing against Hibby. He's a huge fan fave and has his area 55. But I love Ibaka and watch a lot of Thunder games. The man is a specimen of a freak. He needs more alley oops and needs to develop a better post game.

I really like Ibaka, but he is a PF where Hibbert is a Center.

daschysta
01-12-2012, 12:00 PM
Hibs is a far better player than Ibaka this year whether you prefer Ibaka's style or not.

vnzla81
01-12-2012, 12:03 PM
Yeah Ibaka would never command a double team, Hibbert is way better at almost everything.

picasso
01-12-2012, 12:16 PM
Ibaka has been an elite Shot Blocker for 2+ years now. He is a better defensive presence than Hibbert. Ibaka is also just 22 and is a freak of a specimen.


His potential is much higher than whatever Hibbert's floor/ceeling is.

He also plays limited min because of the Thunders deph. His offensive game while not great is improving greatly. He is adding that jumper. He's a high flyer power dunker. I just love his game..

Again, I love Hibbert. But If I were to have a re draft I would choose Ibaka over Hibbert.

PaceBalls
01-12-2012, 02:25 PM
Ibaka has been an elite Shot Blocker for 2+ years now. He is a better defensive presence than Hibbert. Ibaka is also just 22 and is a freak of a specimen.


His potential is much higher than whatever Hibbert's floor/ceeling is.

He also plays limited min because of the Thunders deph. His offensive game while not great is improving greatly. He is adding that jumper. He's a high flyer power dunker. I just love his game..

Again, I love Hibbert. But If I were to have a re draft I would choose Ibaka over Hibbert.

Serge is a good player and all, but if you are talking potential, Roy can be the foundation of our team, actually he is right now. Serge isn't going to be anything but a great role player. Roy's potential is much higher.

I'd take Roy at 11 instead of Brandon/Bayless, just in case someone else took him.

Actually if there were a do over, Roy would be long gone before we got a chance to draft him. I'd have him going at #7 or #8. That was a really good draft class.

daschysta
01-12-2012, 02:37 PM
Ibaka has been an elite Shot Blocker for 2+ years now. He is a better defensive presence than Hibbert. Ibaka is also just 22 and is a freak of a specimen.


His potential is much higher than whatever Hibbert's floor/ceeling is.

He also plays limited min because of the Thunders deph. His offensive game while not great is improving greatly. He is adding that jumper. He's a high flyer power dunker. I just love his game..

Again, I love Hibbert. But If I were to have a re draft I would choose Ibaka over Hibbert.


Roy's minutes are also limited because of depth (Per 36 he's 17-12 2+ 2+ on 55% and that's without getting touches as often as he should), you should know that. I watch a ton of thunder games, Ibaka makes spectacular plays sometimes, but he doesn't alter as many shots as Hibberts sheer size does. He also can't pass, or score in the post in a 1v1 the way Hibs backs guys in and makes points out of nothing. Hibbert commands double teams.

Hibbert is radically more valuable than Ibaka and it isn't even close.

Roy can be one of the top 3 players on a very good team, which the Pacers are looking to be, and really he has been the best player so far this year, and could potentially still be it, or the second best at the end of the season.

If Ibaka is the best, second best, or third best player on your team then you are going to be a team on par with the Wizards or worse. If Hibbert keeps his current level up he's very likely to be an all-star reserve center. Really it's ludicrous to take Ibaka over Hibbert, at this moment, or taking into account potential.

Athleticism isn't all that potential is based on, you have to take skill into account, and centers with Hibberts 2 way skill are way more valuable than super athletic defensive role players. You appear to have clouded judgement based on your love of Ibaka's playstyle, but substance trumps style every time.

Infinite MAN_force
01-12-2012, 02:52 PM
Ibaka has been an elite Shot Blocker for 2+ years now. He is a better defensive presence than Hibbert.

There is a vast difference from being an athletic weak side shot blocker and a true defensive presence. Hibbert anchors the entire defense, his mere presence discourages teams from attacking the rim. It changes the way teams play against us.

Ibaka doesn't have that kind of size, nor the necessary smarts even if he did. What he has are great hops and timing to block shots. A very useful skill, but much different from how Hibbert impacts a game.

That's not even including Hibbert's impact from the post on offense. You could never run an offense through a guy like Ibaka like we do Hibbert. He doesn't have the size, touch, or passing ability to match Hibbert in this area.

This is not to say Ibaka is not a nice player, he clearly is. He's not a center though, and a high quality center is extremely valuable. There aren't a lot of them anymore.

picasso
01-12-2012, 02:55 PM
Roy's minutes are also limited because of depth (Per 36 he's 17-12 2+ 2+ on 55% and that's without getting touches as often as he should), you should know that. I watch a ton of thunder games, Ibaka makes spectacular plays sometimes, but he doesn't alter as many shots as Hibberts sheer size does. He also can't pass, or score in the post in a 1v1 the way Hibs backs guys in and makes points out of nothing. Hibbert commands double teams.

Hibbert is radically more valuable than Ibaka and it isn't even close.

Roy can be one of the top 3 players on a very good team, which the Pacers are looking to be, and really he has been the best player so far this year, and could potentially still be it, or the second best at the end of the season.

If Ibaka is the best, second best, or third best player on your team then you are going to be a team on par with the Wizards or worse. If Hibbert keeps his current level up he's very likely to be an all-star reserve center. Really it's ludicrous to take Ibaka over Hibbert, at this moment, or taking into account potential.

Athleticism isn't all that potential is based on, you have to take skill into account, and centers with Hibberts 2 way skill are way more valuable than super athletic defensive role players. You appear to have clouded judgement based on your love of Ibaka's playstyle, but substance trumps style every time.

Yes I am more Biased because I love Ibakas game much more. But he only plays 22-25 min. The man is a anchor, Hibbert is not better defensively. This is Hibbert's first real year as a good Defensive Center. We all know he has been soft before and mentally weak. He had his confidence destroyed by JOB, basically up until this year Hibbert didn't have that "It" factor.

Yes Hibbert has and is playing like the best player on this team hands down. He is a huge reason why we are a good defensive team no doubt.

Just preference IMO. I have seen a lot of Ibaka and a lot of Hibbert. At this point of their careers Ibaka's game is evolving much faster than Roys. Lets not kid or selves Ibaka is not a role player. He is a starter, the Thunder are just loaded. Taj Gibson is a role player.

picasso
01-12-2012, 02:57 PM
There is a vast difference from being an athletic weak side shot blocker and a true defensive presence. Hibbert anchors the entire defense, his mere presence discourages teams from attacking the rim. It changes the way teams play against us.

Ibaka doesn't have that kind of size, nor the necessary smarts even if he did. What he has are great hops and timing to block shots. A very useful skill, but much different from how Hibbert impacts a game.

That's not even including Hibbert's impact from the post on offense. You could never run an offense through a guy like Ibaka like we do Hibbert. He doesn't have the size, touch, or passing ability to match Hibbert in this area.

This is not to say Ibaka is not a nice player, he clearly is. He's not a center though, and a high quality center is extremely valuable. There aren't a lot of them anymore.


I am not sure we are still running our offense thru Hibbert to be honest. Hibbert is on his 4th year. You don't need to run your offense thru Ibaka. He's a strong rebounder and very shot blocker. His offensive game will come.

daschysta
01-12-2012, 03:01 PM
Yes I am more Biased because I love Ibakas game much more. But he only plays 22-25 min. The man is a anchor, Hibbert is not better defensively. This is Hibbert's first real year as a good Defensive Center. We all know he has been soft before and mentally weak. He had his confidence destroyed by JOB, basically up until this year Hibbert didn't have that "It" factor.

Yes Hibbert has and is playing like the best player on this team hands down. He is a huge reason why we are a good defensive team no doubt.

Just preference IMO. I have seen a lot of Ibaka and a lot of Hibbert. At this point of their careers Ibaka's game is evolving much faster than Roys. Lets not kid or selves Ibaka is not a role player. He is a starter, the Thunder are just loaded. Taj Gibson is a role player.

Hibbert was pretty good defensively last year too. Perkins is the anchor of the Thunder defense. Ibaka's blocks are primarily on the weakside playing help defense. They aren't the same thing. The Pacers are also a really, really deep team.

Ibaka cannot score on his own offense, and is an 8 ppg career guy, and less than that this year. For their careers their rebound rates are very similar, however last year, and especially this year Hibbert is rebounding at a higher rate than Ibaka ever has. It just isn't comparable man, and i'm only talking primarily overall effect on a teams defense. Bring offense into it? It isn't even close.

AesopRockOn
01-12-2012, 03:34 PM
Hibbert is becoming one of the top centers in the game. A far cry from that uncoordinated giant he was when we drafted him.

This all damn day. The people who thought Hibbert wouldn't make it because of physical/athletic issues would have been right nine times out of ten. We didn't know (maybe Larry did, maybe he didn't) that he would be one of the hardest working players in this league and improve huge hand over huge foot every year.