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MyFavMartin
05-23-2008, 08:13 AM
"But here's one intriguing one I heard today: The Cleveland Cavaliers could trade Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Anderson Varejao and the No. 19 pick to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal."

Been reported as bogus, but at 19 we could add someone like CDR, Rush, Walker, Speights, R. Lopez or Courtney Lee.

DGPR
05-23-2008, 08:37 AM
The extra pick could be nice but I'll pass on Big Z.


Here's the link and article:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftWatch-080523&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fdraft2008%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumni st%3dford_chad%26page%3dDraftWatch-080523


CHICAGO -- The debate continues to rage in Chicago Bulls country about the No. 1 pick.
I spoke with John Paxson on Thursday and you can listen to the entire interview here on the podcast. (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftWatch-080523&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fdraft2008%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumni st%3dford_chad%26page%3dDr#)


Paxson was adamant that the Bulls haven't made up their minds and won't decide what to do until they see both Michael Beasley (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19133) or Derrick Rose (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19132) work out. So whomever you put atop your mock draft, you have a 50 percent chance of saying "I told you so" to someone.
<OFFER>[+] Enlarge (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftWatch-080523&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fdraft2008%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumni st%3dford_chad%26page%3dDr#)

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0513/pg2_a_mayo2_200.jpg (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftWatch-080523&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fdraft2008%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumni st%3dford_chad%26page%3dDr#) AP Photo/Don Ryan
It's possible O.J. Mayo could find himself in Miami, paired with Dwyane Wade.




But after talking to Paxson, I think the theoretical guy he's describing -- the player who is a leader, who makes people better, has great character and can be a franchise player -- sounds like Rose. Paxson denied this on the interview, but more and more people in the league seem to be coming to the conclusion that this is Rose's pick to lose.


If the Bulls take Rose No. 1, that leads to an interesting scenario with the Heat at No. 2. Sources say the Heat want Rose, too, but if he's not on the board, a source familiar with the Heat's thinking told me that the team is interested in O.J. Mayo (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19129) and think he might be a great fit in the backcourt with Dwyane Wade.


I'm not sure why the Heat are shying away from Beasley, as he would be a good fit in Miami. But I see why Miami likes Mayo. While Rose is a pure point guard, his lack of a jump shot would make him a somewhat less than ideal fit alongside Wade. Yes, the Heat would have the most athletic backcourt in the league, but without much outside shooting.


Mayo, on the other hand, is an excellent shooter with deep range. He also has enough point guard skills to run a team like Miami, especially with Wade, a combo guard, also handling the ball a lot. Mayo's basketball IQ and age (he'll be 21 in November) also make him a little more NBA-ready than Rose right now.


For several years NBA teams have ranked Mayo as the top prospect in his draft class. After a shaky start for USC, he came on strong at the end of the season. And he has looked awesome in his Chicago workouts with Tim Grover.

Mayo's Clinic

http://espn.go.com/i/columnists/ford_chad_m.jpg
Chad Ford watched O.J. Mayo work out on Thursday, and will have a report on the highly-regarded draft prospect in the coming days.


If the Heat decide Mayo's the guy, they may be able to swing a deal with the Minnesota Timberwolves, Seattle Supersonics or Memphis Grizzlies that would give them both Mayo and an extra piece of the puzzle. I think all three teams would give up something significant for the chance to move up and draft Beasley.


• I've gotten quite a bit of feedback from NBA GMs on our first mock draft (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=MockDraft-080520)of the year -- enough that I'll be making some adjustments on Monday.


Here's a sneak preview of one of the things I'm hearing:
Everyone is telling me that I have DeAndre Jordan (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19136) too low. While there were several sources disputing the rumor that Jordan has a top-five commitment (the word now is that he's supposed to be working out for the Grizzlies at No. 5, the New York Knicks at No. 6, the Charlotte Bobcats at No. 9 and the Indiana Pacers at No. 11), everyone said they'd be shocked if Jordan were to slip out of the top 10 on draft night. Currently we have him at No. 14 to Golden State, but that will probably change.


"He's just too big and too talented to slip that far," one GM said. "There are a lot of risks with him, but big guys with that talent just don't slip that far."


• The first round of invites for the Orlando predraft camp went out on Thursday. I am still compiling the list of who was invited and who wasn't and will get it to you when I have it. More interesting was the physical-only invite list, which we have.


Each year the NBA invites a select group of players to Orlando for physicals. Normally this group just goes through some testing (height, weight, vertical jump, strength training), a medical physical and some light drills. This list is usually the first indication of the players the league thinks are the best in the draft.


A league source told me that there are 12 players on the list at the moment: Beasley, Rose, Mayo, Brook Lopez (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19042), Jerryd Bayless (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19137), Danilo Gallinari (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19078), Anthony Randolph (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19157), Eric Gordon (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19131), Jordan, Kevin Love (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19130), Russell Westbrook (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19241) and D.J. Augustin (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19083). That also happens to be our Top 12 in our Top 100 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=MockDraft-080520).

Among the names to be left off the list so far are Joe Alexander (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19096), Kosta Koufos (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19155), Marreese Speights (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19161), Donte Greene (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19135) and Darrell Arthur (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19062). But the league has been known, in the past, to offer more spots as we get closer to the camp.


• Trade rumors keep coming hot and heavy, though most of them are aren't worth repeating.
But here's one intriguing one I heard today: The Cleveland Cavaliers could trade Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Anderson Varejao and the No. 19 pick to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal.


It's an interesting idea, but when I called team sources to find out if there was any truth to it, they shot it down as bogus.


Still, I'd watch both teams closely. I think the Pacers will move O'Neal this summer if they can, and I think the Cavs are definitely going to try and strengthen the supporting cast this summer for LeBron's sake. A healthy O'Neal could be a big boon for the Cavs, and head coach Mike Brown (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=16429), formerly with the Pacers, should know how to get the best out of him.



---------------------------------------

Also, if you go and look at the comments left on this page on ESPN it's depressing to read some of the comments about the JO trade. Most everybody on there sees the same thing, past his prime, weak knees, swollen contract.

Jim R
05-23-2008, 09:02 AM
I'd like to see that deal, and that's as a pretty staunch JO guy. Z comes off the books in 2010, as does JO, and Varejao's contract isn't too hefty at 3 years, just over $6M.

Speed
05-23-2008, 09:20 AM
If they can get a deal like this and get Rush at 19, I really like this, you may be able to then move Jeff, since you have Verajo and pick up another late 1st rounder or maybe an established PG.

Interesting that Jordan may work out for the Pacers.

Naptown_Seth
05-23-2008, 09:21 AM
I agree that the trade seems to make sense on both sides. Indy is looking to move forward in IMAGE, and JO is tied in many fans minds to the recent problems. Big Z isn't about winning more, it's about losing in a different way that will at least win back some fans.

The Pacers also need some frontline depth, at least improved quality on the bench. And a 2nd pick is huge, or so it would seem. Maybe the Pacers wait out the draft to see who's on the board at 19.

For CLE you are still clearing cap space with JO...just in time for Lebron. AND you block other teams from getting JO as the Lebron cap clearer (ahem, NYC). CLE has to think shake up along the same lines as they were this year with their deal with Chicago.

Who "wins" the trade probably would hinge on JO's health. 60 games and CLE wins, 40 games and IND wins...well, unless Z is hurt just as much.


And I'm also a big JO fan. I'm open to trading him only from a praticality viewpoint, not a personal dislike. JO will always be a Pacer to me.

esabyrn333
05-23-2008, 09:28 AM
I say we keep JO. I don't want either of these guys. Z can stay in Clevland. Pictureing that guy in a Pacers Uni makes me vomit a little every time....:dead::sick:

avoidingtheclowns
05-23-2008, 09:45 AM
I say we keep JO. I don't want either of these guys. Z can stay in Clevland. Pictureing that guy in a Pacers Uni makes me vomit a little every time....:dead::sick:

yet somehow you're hunky dory with eddy curry.

esabyrn333
05-23-2008, 09:51 AM
yet somehow you're hunky dory with eddy curry.

Eddy Curry alongside JO is my main thing...I would like to see a big body that can take on the other teams larger guys. I really believe JO is going to have a very good year. Plus he will be worth more at the trade deadline than this.

SoupIsGood
05-23-2008, 09:53 AM
That would be nice. The chance to add Anderson and whomever at 19? You take that. Plus anything Z gives us would be bonus.

Ideally we could come away from that having added Love, CDR, Varejao, and Z to the roster. Not bad. (Though not good if you think JO will ever be healthy again.)

PacerGuy
05-23-2008, 09:57 AM
That would be nice. The chance to add Anderson and whomever at 19? You take that. Plus anything Z gives us would be bonus.
Z still gives you an large '10 expiring contract to move, & @ C - a weak position for most - so he still could also bring back a player/ pick of value n/y.

esabyrn333
05-23-2008, 09:59 AM
yet somehow you're hunky dory with eddy curry.


JO/Curry compared to Troy/Z... I personally would take option number 1

Everyone can read it here first JO will not have a major injury this year and if given the chance will become a anchor in the middle for us and let danny be the first option. JO has something to prove and if we move him now we will regrett it.

Speed
05-23-2008, 10:10 AM
That would be nice. The chance to add Anderson and whomever at 19? You take that. Plus anything Z gives us would be bonus.

Ideally we could come away from that having added Love, CDR, Varejao, and Z to the roster. Not bad. (Though not good if you think JO will ever be healthy again.)

I agree completely, I like Varejao and consider Z as contract filler.

ALTHOUGH, maybe you can get Cabbage to come back and team up with Z???!?!?!??

I like the trade, I've always liked Foster and he's getting older and if you get Varejao, you have another Foster. Every team needs a Foster.

Plus think how many times you can reference Sideshow Bob the next decade? Thats worth it right there!!

Speed
05-23-2008, 10:11 AM
JO/Curry compared to Troy/Z... I personally would take option number 1

Everyone can read it here first JO will not have a major injury this year and if given the chance will become a anchor in the middle for us and let danny be the first option. JO has something to prove and if we move him now we will regrett it.


E**y Curry? That E**y? :D

Hicks
05-23-2008, 10:15 AM
I'm interested in this deal, even though it's probably fake.

OakMoses
05-23-2008, 10:15 AM
If only we could manage to send Tinsley with JO to Cleveland and maybe see Delonte West headed our way...

This seems to be a reasonable trade, but I'd definitely work the Chicago angle as well. I'd much rather have Hinrich + Thomas + Non-Hughes-filler if that's a possibility.

Swingman
05-23-2008, 10:23 AM
I think the deal is pretty good. However, how many times do we get wind of the pacers deal before it happens? Most likely this is just the media making up stories again.

Jonathan
05-23-2008, 10:30 AM
I am not 100% against this trade at all. Big Z is top 5 C in the eastern conference. My biggest ? is does he fit our style of play? I believe you have to have a decent big to win in the playoffs. I am not sold on mop head (Varejo) but he is a hustle player that will allow us to move Foster if TPTB want to move Foster at the deadline. I like the 19th Pick; (Lopez/D Greene/J Alexander).

idioteque
05-23-2008, 10:31 AM
Eddy Curry alongside JO is my main thing...I would like to see a big body that can take on the other teams larger guys. I really believe JO is going to have a very good year. Plus he will be worth more at the trade deadline than this.

Eddy Curry and JO on the court at the same time would be like watching molasses run up and down the court on every possession.

Eddy Curry is one of those guys, pretty talented but he doesn't seem to care if he wins or losses.

And that deal is a freaking no brainer. It makes Foster expendable, we get a draft pick, and we get Big Z who I have always liked fairly well and we get a draft pick as well. And for what? A guy that will probably never more than 60% of games per season ever again. It's probably too good to be true and Cleveland would be giving up too much.

tdubb03
05-23-2008, 10:58 AM
Even though Varajao is probably the worst flopper in the league, this is an interesting trade.

Tinsley (for now)/Augustin
Mike/maybe CDR, Rush, Lee
Danny/Shawne
Murphy/Flopajao
Z/Jeff

I kinda like it, definite infusion of youth. Z's only got 2 years as well, so he'd have the same sort of value as JO would in 09-10 as an expirer, granted not as much most likely.

MillerTime
05-23-2008, 11:05 AM
not a bad trade. Atleast we'll get Big Z which is a C that actually plays and isnt injury prone

BPump33
05-23-2008, 11:13 AM
I think it's important that we remember where JO is in his career. I absolutely love JO, but we'd be crazy not to pull the trigger on this trade as of right now. We are only getting half seasons out of JO, so to be able to get a first rounder, another player like Jeff and big Z who is a big man with decent range (for a C) and is a great FT shooter. If JO comes back healthy and at all-star level then that will suck for us, but I'd be happy for him. I think it's worth the risk.

On a related note: If JO stays and comes back healthy and gets back into All-star form then I will completely admit that I was wrong about this trade, but until then I don't think we could turn down a trade like this.

Unfortunately, there probably isn't any real substance to this rumor.

esabyrn333
05-23-2008, 11:14 AM
E**y Curry? That E**y? :D

I'm just looking for someone to fill the Brad Miller role for this team. I don't think that is too much to ask for. I just don't see how Big Z helps us without having JO to pair him with. My wish list for the year....

Colts win SuperBowl....Pats miss the playoffs...Tom Brady develops erectile dysfunction due to his night terriors of Dwight coming around the edge and Bob crushing him as he try to escape the rath of Freeny

Notre Dame has a good year beats USC and are poised to make a charge for the National Championship the following year.

Pacers make some noise...gains the fans back and becomes a solid contender in the east

IU wins the the big dance in Tom Crean's first year as coach

I really don't think this should be that hard to accomplish in the next year.

Jared Jammer
05-23-2008, 11:22 AM
This trade doesn't make me vomit in my mouth, which, I think, is a good sign. Varejao is a young Foster-clone, he would make Jeff expandable, probably for another late teens to early 20's pick. Ilgauskas moves like a glacier but he can definitely produce. I'd try and use #19 packaged with #11 to move up in 6-7 or so range and hope that either Bayless, Mayo, or Lopez slips, or even Kevin Love if his stock rises between now and the draft. Then with the 1st I acquired for Foster, I'd pick-up someone like Hibbert or Lawson, depending on what I picked up with my lottery 1st.

So, hypothetically, we'd be turning O'Neal and Foster into something along the lines of....

Lawson
Love
Varejao
Ilgauskas

A good influx of young talent, and a solid center in Ilgauskas.

NuffSaid
05-23-2008, 11:40 AM
I'd give up Williams and Ike for "Sideshow Bob" and the Cavs' #19 pick, but that's it.

ajbry
05-23-2008, 11:52 AM
Even though Varajao is probably the worst flopper in the league, this is an interesting trade.

Tinsley (for now)/Augustin
Mike/maybe CDR, Rush, Lee
Danny/Shawne
Murphy/Flopajao
Z/Jeff

I kinda like it, definite infusion of youth. Z's only got 2 years as well, so he'd have the same sort of value as JO would in 09-10 as an expirer, granted not as much most likely.

That team's not as young as you'd think. There are many teams right now who have much more talent and are still much younger. Big Z can barely move nowadays but he's still a good center in the East and should be for a couple more years - mainly because of his range and his ability to hit the mid-range jumper.

This trade makes a lot of sense for both sides but why would the Pacers send JO to a team in the same division? And the Cavs are likely to explore a lot of options and in the end are likely to decide that, at this point in his career with his salary, he's too much of a risk compared to the alternatives. Varejao would be a decent fit but trading away Jeff in the process to appease a guy who thinks he's worth a ton of money might alienate some of the fanbase.

Either way, it's probably not happening. Rumors this early in the offseason almost never materialize.

Manguera
05-23-2008, 11:52 AM
I would probably do this trade because right now JO's contribution is an unknown whereas Z and Varajao are knowns. Nobody really knows exactly what JO will contribute next year. The realistic range is anywhere from nothing to a full season of 20/10/2 and it's been that way for the last 3 years now. We need some stability and realistic expectations, especially from our "best player".

Rajah Brown
05-23-2008, 11:57 AM
Pass. Neither Z or Var... fit O'b system. Hold out for something
better than that deal. At this point, there's no hurry to move
J.O.

ajbry
05-23-2008, 12:00 PM
I would probably do this trade because right now JO's contribution is an unknown whereas Z and Varajao are knowns. Nobody really knows exactly what JO will contribute next year. The realistic range is anywhere from nothing to a full season of 20/10/2 and it's been that way for the last 3 years now. We need some stability and realistic expectations, especially from our "best player".

Unfortunately you just explained the main variable in this deal on behalf of the Cavs. If they're willing to be optimistic and hope JO returns to his old form (and I personally don't think he'll ever get 20 PPG again) then they'll definitely be on board because he'd be a great complementary piece to LBJ and someone who can carry some of the load offensively and make an impact defensively. Conversely, they'll also be succinctly aware of his rapid decline in the past year and a half and wonder if he's already in the twilight of his career. With his contract they can't afford to be wrong, otherwise LeBron is definitely leaving in 2 years because they wouldn't be able to get any additional talent really.

bambam
05-23-2008, 12:07 PM
What are we talking about Big Z being injured prone?

97-98 82 games played

98-99 5 games played ( major injury)
00-01 24 games played
01-02 62 games played

02-03 81 games played
03-04 81 games played
04-05 78 games played
05-06 78 games played
06-07 78 games played
07-08 73 games played

The last 6 seasons, Big Z has played in 95% of the regular season games...avg 30mins, 15pts, 8rebs, and almost 2 blks.

JO has played in ONLY, let me say again ONLY 73% of his games for the last 6 seasons. Lets even take out the 04-05 season b/c of the brawl suspension....he has played in ONLY, again ONLY 77% of the games in 5 of the last 6 seasons.

So, Z has played in 20% more games in the last 6 seasons and makes 9mil less a year. JO needs to go, he was nice to have in Indy at times. Not bad guy at all. I like JO as a person, but his body isnt holding up, and at 19mil you better be Kobe, Lebron, or somone of that nature to make that money.

CableKC
05-23-2008, 12:20 PM
When you say:


Eddy Curry alongside JO is my main thing...I would like to see a big body that can take on the other teams larger guys.

Are you referring to JONeal or Curry?

I am guessing that if you are referring to Curry, you are aware that Curry is incapable of providing adequate defense against opposing Big Men.

I say this only because Curry plays ZERO Defense. If JONeal were to continue focusing on defense and far less on offense....then I agree with you....a Curry/JONeal offensive combo would be nice since Curry is a very efficient Low-Post scorer.

But from a defensive end....if Curry and JONeal were on the floor at the same time, JONeal would be guarding the opposing Big Man. There is a reason why Dunleavy always has his 36 point career nights against the Knicks....it's cuz the Knicks frontcourt defense was so poor that Dunleavy ( much less any team ) can attack it at will.

If Curry were to play next to JONeal, you would ( literally ) see a Big Body next to JONeal ( only cuz Curry is really out of shape )....but I wouldn't count on Curry taking on the teams "larger guys".

himikey
05-23-2008, 12:21 PM
Why not do that trade? Hang on to JO for another year and hope he will stop being injury prone?

Major Cold
05-23-2008, 12:21 PM
I just don't see this happening. Ferry has gambled on Big Ben and company. I think next year would be a true indicator if that deal is a total flop. But from what I see this trade is a risky move for the Cavs.

I don't see us getting their pick either. JO does not have that much value.

Jared Jammer
05-23-2008, 12:32 PM
I just don't see this happening. Ferry has gambled on Big Ben and company. I think next year would be a true indicator if that deal is a total flop. But from what I see this trade is a risky move for the Cavs.

I don't see us getting their pick either. JO does not have that much value.

I can't agree. #19 is a solid pick, but I don't think it's that valuable. Neither is Ilgauskas nor Varejao, really. It's the equivalent of trading 3 dimes for a chance at either a nickel (injured J.O.) or a Kennedy half-dollar (healthy J.O.) - odd analogy probably, but I think it sums it up well. It's a gamble for Cleveland, but I don't think they can stand pat with their current team and hope to keep LeBron happy. If J.O. works out, he's the "Robin" they badly need and he should take Cleveland to true elite status.

jmoney2584
05-23-2008, 12:42 PM
Having JO, Big Ben, and Lebron in the frontcourt would be disgustingly nasty on the defensive front. Not to mention West is a quick guard who can defend his position. The Cavs would be a solid team if this rumor were to hold any weight

CableKC
05-23-2008, 12:53 PM
Looking at this financially, we would come out ahead as we are taking in less guaranteed $$ over the 2 seasons and take less of a salary cap hit as well.

In Total guaranteed $$$:

Total guaranteed $$$ that Big Z + Varajeo is owed between the 2008-2010 seasons : $34 mil ( assuming that both of them take their Player options )

Total guaranteed $$$ that JONeal is owed until the 2008-2010 season : $44 mil ( assuming that JONeal doesn't opt out )

Salary cap impact in the 2008-2009 season

For Big Z + Varajeo - $10.8 mil ( Big Z ) + $5.74 mil ( Varajeo )
= $16.5 mil counts towards the 2008-2009 Salary cap

For JONeal
= $22 mil counts towards the 2008-2009 Salary cap

Salary cap impact in the 2009-2010 season ( assuming that both Big Z and Varejeo take their Player options

For Big Z + Varajeo - $11.5 mil ( Big Z ) + $6.2 mil ( Varajeo ) = $17.7 mil counts towards the 2009-2010 Salary cap

For JONeal
= $23 mil counts towards the 2009-2010 Salary cap

The real benefit here is that we gain some Salary cap back OVER THE NEXT 2 SEASONS. This is key since it gives us some breathing room to resign Granger when his contract comes up for Extension ( which I think is in the 2009-2010 season ). However, the only possible ( but minor downside ) is that I can totally see Varajeo opt out of his Player Option in the 2009-2010 season ( cuz it appears that he didn't get the contract that he was looking for )......which is a good or bad thing. I don't mind that he would essentially be an Expiring contract....but I don't mind having him on the team since he appears to be a slightly better scoring version of Foster. If we try to resign him...he would be very expensive.

I would definitely consider a "Big Z and Varajeo + 19th pick for JONeal" trade but I doubt that the Cavs would.....they seem to be giving up too much for an oft-injured JONeal while taking in more Guaranteed $$$. In all honesty, I would even do this deal without the 19th pick.

Infinite MAN_force
05-23-2008, 12:54 PM
I like Z and everything, guy reminds me of Smits, but the dude is like 33 years old. With a big body like that, he can't have much left in the tank. If all we see him as is an expiring contract than we might as well keep JO. I would rather make a move for Robin Lopez than get varejo.

I only do this trade if its JO for Big Z, Delonte, and the 19th pick. I don't think Cleveland does that trade.

The fact that everyone likes this trade and not the Chicago one boggles my mind... an over the hill center and the 19th pick is really that appealing? Id rather let JO play for a little bit next year and maybe improve his value.

Infinite MAN_force
05-23-2008, 12:56 PM
Looking at this financially, we would come out ahead as we are taking in less guaranteed $$ over the 2 seasons and take less of a salary cap hit as well.

In Total guaranteed $$$:

Total guaranteed $$$ that Big Z + Varajeo is owed between the 2008-2010 seasons : $34 mil ( assuming that both of them take their Player options )

Total guaranteed $$$ that JONeal is owed until the 2008-2010 season : $44 mil ( assuming that JONeal doesn't opt out )

Salary cap impact in the 2008-2009 season

For Big Z + Varajeo - $10.8 mil ( Big Z ) + $5.74 mil ( Varajeo )
= $16.5 mil counts towards the 2008-2009 Salary cap

For JONeal
= $22 mil counts towards the 2008-2009 Salary cap

Salary cap impact in the 2009-2010 season ( assuming that both Big Z and Varejeo take their Player options

For Big Z + Varajeo - $11.5 mil ( Big Z ) + $6.2 mil ( Varajeo ) = $17.7 mil counts towards the 2009-2010 Salary cap

For JONeal
= $23 mil counts towards the 2009-2010 Salary cap

The real benefit here is that we gain some Salary cap back OVER THE NEXT 2 SEASONS. This is key since it gives us some breathing room to resign Granger when his contract comes up for Extension ( which I think is in the 2009-2010 season ). However, the only possible ( but minor downside ) is that I can totally see Varajeo opt out of his Player Option in the 2009-2010 season ( cuz it appears that he didn't get the contract that he was looking for )......which is a good or bad thing. I don't mind that he would essentially be an Expiring contract....but I don't mind having him on the team since he appears to be a slightly better scoring version of Foster. If we try to resign him...he would be very expensive.

I would definitely consider a "Big Z and Varajeo + 19th pick for JONeal" trade but I doubt that the Cavs would.....they seem to be giving up too much for an oft-injured JONeal while taking in more Guaranteed $$$. In all honesty, I would even do this deal without the 19th pick.


I think the whole resign granger thing is a fallacy. If we hold on to Daniels and Diogu and let them expire after next year we have room to pay granger, no problem.

Tom White
05-23-2008, 12:57 PM
...But from what I see this trade is a risky move for the Cavs.

I don't see us getting their pick either. JO does not have that much value.


Although I don't think this trade will happen, I'll say this. Cleveland HAS to make some moves, even risky ones. If they don't make moves that James believes improves the team around him, he may be gone at the end of his current contract. What is that, two years?

To me that means they need to add established talent. They may not feel they have the time for a #19 draft pick to become a contributor, in order to appease James. He appears to be becoming a bit of an "I want it all, and I want it now." sort of player.

CableKC
05-23-2008, 01:04 PM
I can't agree. #19 is a solid pick, but I don't think it's that valuable. Neither is Ilgauskas nor Varejao, really. It's the equivalent of trading 3 dimes for a chance at either a nickel (injured J.O.) or a Kennedy half-dollar (healthy J.O.) - odd analogy probably, but I think it sums it up well. It's a gamble for Cleveland, but I don't think they can stand pat with their current team and hope to keep LeBron happy. If J.O. works out, he's the "Robin" they badly need and he should take Cleveland to true elite status.
I disagree that the 19th pick isn't that valuable. It's been said that this year's draft doesn't have that much depth beyond the top 10.

Because of the real lack of depth beyond the Top 10 ( arguable even after the top 8 ), I really think that if there are players that a team thinks will still be available at the Non-lottery spots and they think that they can get something out of trading down ( like acquiring a better player or getting rid of a player that they don't want ), then I can see interest in Non-Lottery picks.

For example, if Augustin were truly the Pacers target, I would really hate it if they reached for him at the 11th spot...but I wouldn't mind if we were to acquire a better player or get rid of a player with the 11th pick while trading down to a Non-Lottery spot to get Augustin.

Young
05-23-2008, 01:07 PM
If we want to deal Jermaine this is probably as good of a deal as the we will get.

We about made the playoffs without Jermaine and Jamaal playing most of the season. So adding Z and Varaejao would help.

Z can give us a big guy to throw the ball to in the post. I think he can be good for 10-13 points per game still.

I like Varejao. He would give us a nice energy boost off the bench. The bad part about him is that he probably walks once he is a free agent as he will want a lot of money. More then he is worth and more then the Pacers can spend.

Could get a solid player at 19 too possibly. One guy who I like but we don't need is Chirs Douglas Roberts. I think he can be a good scorer in this league.

Jared Jammer
05-23-2008, 01:21 PM
I disagree that the 19th pick isn't that valuable. It's been said that this year's draft doesn't have that much depth beyond the top 10.

#19 definitely has value, I just don't think it's valuable enough to be a deal breaker.

Anthem
05-23-2008, 01:26 PM
ALTHOUGH, maybe you can get Cabbage to come back and team up with Z???!?!?!??
Best reason there is not to do the trade.

CableKC
05-23-2008, 01:33 PM
#19 definitely has value, I just don't think it's valuable enough to be a deal breaker.
In this particular case.....when it comes to giving up 2 healthy and useful players and taking on one that is oft-injured but is also owed about $10 mil more in guaranteed $$$ then the other 2, I would consider it a deal-breaker for the Cavs.

However you slice it....the 19th pick is a trading asset that the Cavs could use to move up or down in the draft...which could allow them to move players on and off their roster.

A deal that would IMHO be fair for the Cavs ( and likely more paletable ) is Big Z+Snow+19 for JONeal ( allowing them to keep Varajeo ). I'm not saying it's optimal or that we would want Snow.....I just don't think that JONeal has that much trade value.

At best...I can see a Big Z+Varajeo for JONeal or a Big Z+Snow+19 for JONeal trade that is fair for both teams.

Giving up Big Z+Varajeo+19 seems to be too much since there is a huge Question Mark surrounding JONeal's health.

mrknowname
05-23-2008, 01:38 PM
I like Z and everything, guy reminds me of Smits, but the dude is like 33 years old. With a big body like that, he can't have much left in the tank. If all we see him as is an expiring contract than we might as well keep JO. I would rather make a move for Robin Lopez than get varejo.

I only do this trade if its JO for Big Z, Delonte, and the 19th pick. I don't think Cleveland does that trade.

The fact that everyone likes this trade and not the Chicago one boggles my mind... an over the hill center and the 19th pick is really that appealing? Id rather let JO play for a little bit next year and maybe improve his value.

we could get robin lopez with the 19th pick.

this trade would make foster expendable. package him with tinsley maybe

CableKC
05-23-2008, 01:45 PM
I think the whole resign granger thing is a fallacy. If we hold on to Daniels and Diogu and let them expire after next year we have room to pay granger, no problem.
I guess I could be wrong....but can someone clarify for me when we have to clear Salary cap space in order to begin to resign Granger?

Do we need the space starting in the 2009-2010 season?

or

Do we need to clear space starting in the 2010-2011 season?

Manguera
05-23-2008, 01:45 PM
Unfortunately you just explained the main variable in this deal on behalf of the Cavs. If they're willing to be optimistic and hope JO returns to his old form (and I personally don't think he'll ever get 20 PPG again) then they'll definitely be on board because he'd be a great complementary piece to LBJ and someone who can carry some of the load offensively and make an impact defensively. Conversely, they'll also be succinctly aware of his rapid decline in the past year and a half and wonder if he's already in the twilight of his career. With his contract they can't afford to be wrong, otherwise LeBron is definitely leaving in 2 years because they wouldn't be able to get any additional talent really.

I agree with you, but my point is that as a Pacer fan we should not thumb our nose at any JO deal just because of what he MIGHT give us next year. We have been held hostage by the "If he's healthy" line for the last 3 years with him and Tins. If they both become all-stars after this year I still wouldn't look back because at this point we need to know that we can reasonably count on our best players to be available night in and night out. We don't have that right now and may not ever with these two. If someone is willing to take them off our hands in a fair deal we should take it. I like JO as much as anyone, but crossing our fingers and hoping we get even 3/4 of a season out of him makes him expendable right now IMO.

deekay85
05-23-2008, 01:51 PM
Great deal for JO.
We cant get anything better for him. And the 19th Pick (Budinger, Hibbert...) why not?
I like Z and Varejao ist a hustler.
And nobody knows how Jermaine will play next year.

CableKC
05-23-2008, 02:00 PM
we could get robin lopez with the 19th pick.

this trade would make foster expendable. package him with tinsley maybe
That would be a dream offseason :cloud9:..........draft Westbrook at 11....get Big Z, Varajeo + 19 for JONeal then draft either Lopez or Rush ( if he is available ) at the 19th spot.

indygeezer
05-23-2008, 02:06 PM
Dang! Is it rumor season already??? I haven't even had a chance to site in my guns yet. Bit early this year but every summer, sure as geese, the Pacer trade rumors return. We seem to be on every prognosticators Most Likely list every freaking year, and every freaking year people get hepped up about nothing much ado about nothing.

This is just the first of many to come. Keep both eyes open and be patient...you might be able to bag two with one shot.

CableKC
05-23-2008, 02:06 PM
Pass. Neither Z or Var... fit O'b system. Hold out for something
better than that deal. At this point, there's no hurry to move
J.O.
I don't see Big Z being any worse then JONeal running up and down the court.....as for Varajeo....he's just a younger version of Foster that isn't as good of a Big Man defender but a better scorer.

tdubb03
05-23-2008, 02:10 PM
we could get robin lopez with the 19th pick.

this trade would make foster expendable. package him with tinsley maybe

Lopez and Varajao seem like the same player more or less to me, they'd be redundant. I'd like a guy like Love, Arthur, or Speights at 11, then Lawson or Chalmers at 19.

Anthem
05-23-2008, 02:12 PM
CDR.

Speed
05-23-2008, 02:13 PM
Rush

Jared Jammer
05-23-2008, 02:14 PM
we could get robin lopez with the 19th pick.

this trade would make foster expendable. package him with tinsley maybe

Lopez would seem redundant with both Varejao and Foster here. I think we'd be better off going after someone like Hibbert, or, if we don't address the point guard situation with #11, Augustine or Lawson, provided they're available.

Speed
05-23-2008, 02:15 PM
I don't see Big Z being any worse then JONeal running up and down the court.....as for Varajeo....he's just a younger version of Foster that isn't as good of a Big Man defender but a better scorer.

He did a nice job on Garnett I thought, I think Varejeo is an excellent defender. I think he's like top 15 at the position good. I think I'm alot higher on him as most, it seems.

Z is almost 33 and his feet I think are 53. I think I'm alot lower on him than most. He may be the slowest guy in the league. I really can't think of one guy slower.

Young
05-23-2008, 02:21 PM
Like most rumors this one probably isn't even legit.

Say that it is. Why do the Cavs do this? They already made big changes at the trade deadline so why make another one? Especially for Jermaine.

Jared Jammer
05-23-2008, 02:27 PM
Like most rumors this one probably isn't even legit.

Say that it is. Why do the Cavs do this? They already made big changes at the trade deadline so why make another one? Especially for Jermaine.

Because they need more changes. Right now, they're just not good enough. J.O. is a risk, but he's a risk with a high payoff if he can stay healthy. He could be the first true sidekick LeBron has had, and he would certainly take them to the next level in the East. If they keep their team the way it is now, there's no reason to expect them to do anything again next season. The bulk of their team is on the decline - J.O. would actually be a bit of a youth movement for them. :laugh:

NapTonius Monk
05-23-2008, 02:47 PM
Eddy Curry alongside JO is my main thing...I would like to see a big body that can take on the other teams larger guys. I really believe JO is going to have a very good year. Plus he will be worth more at the trade deadline than this.

There's enough comedy in this statement to start it's own thread. The only big guys Curry ever took on were Dairy Queen checkout guys and Burger King fry cooks. The only big man who plays more apathetically than he does on defense is his teammate Zach. No thanks!

Speed
05-23-2008, 02:53 PM
Other than not playing D, not rebounding, and not caring.... nope, I still don't like Eddy Curry.

As far as Zach Randolph, it was funny that last game against the Pacers that many of us went to. I found myself wondering 2 minutes in, Hmmmmm, whats the record for most shots taken in one game by one guy? I'm serious, he shot it like 7 of the first 8 times he touched it. I was a little disappointed that he got taken out, I was hoping for at least 50 shot attempts. You knew it was coming, he was back in Indiana, his boys in the crowd, he's thinking ya, I'm gonna drop 60 on these chumps and show my boooyzzzah..... but I digress.

JayRedd
05-23-2008, 03:00 PM
This deal is amazing.

If you think we're doing better than this for JO, you're hammered.

Personally, I think Andy is a douchebag, but the dude can play basketball and is a total "brings lots of stuff to the table and takes nothing away" type of guy.

Big Z is an ideal fit for JOB. He's one of the the best shooting big men in the League and consistently draw his defender far enough out of the paint that even poor penetrators like Danny and Mike could regularly get to the hoop. When we break out lineups like Diener/Mike/Danny/Foster or Andy/Big Z the whole interior would be wide open for driving lanes and when we did miss perimeter shots, uber-offensive rebounders like Jeff and Sideshow would give us tons of extra possessions.

And while he's not a great defender by any means, Z is huge and he takes up a lot of space to deter penetrators and to make even tough covers like Dwight Howard really have to work for their points. He and his 18-foot arms are just tough to get around.


Big Z isn't about winning more, it's about losing in a different way that will at least win back some fans.

Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying we'd be a great team next year or anything, but we'd be better. And having the two quality rookies plus a young Varejao would be a huge step in the right direction.




For CLE you are still clearing cap space with JO...just in time for Lebron. AND you block other teams from getting JO as the Lebron cap clearer (ahem, NYC). CLE has to think shake up along the same lines as they were this year with their deal with Chicago.

Great point. I don't care if LeBron goes to Brooklyn, but if signs on to play in Orange and Blue, I will probably cry.


That would be nice. The chance to add Anderson and whomever at 19? You take that. Plus anything Z gives us would be bonus.

Ideally we could come away from that having added Love, CDR, Varejao, and Z to the roster. Not bad. (Though not good if you think JO will ever be healthy again.)

Yup.


I just don't see this happening. Ferry has gambled on Big Ben and company. I think next year would be a true indicator if that deal is a total flop. But from what I see this trade is a risky move for the Cavs.

As Seth points out, though, they gotta do something. Ferry knows just as well as everyone else that LeBron is walking if they don't do something soon. Adding Larry, Ben, Delonte and Wally was a nice tweak, but it's pretty obvious that the Chosen One wasn't all that impressed. I'm not saying JO is Ferry's ideal move, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the dude get really desperate really soon. And, if JO does bounce back from his knee surgery next year to play regularly, he would be an incredible defensive presence in the middle for Mike Brown.

JayRedd
05-23-2008, 03:02 PM
CDR.

Yes, please.

I want him at 11, honestly.

Suaveness
05-23-2008, 03:02 PM
Could always trade our 2 picks for a higher pick

Kraft
05-23-2008, 03:06 PM
Could always trade our 2 picks for a higher pick

Or combine one with a guy like Dunleavy to move up. More picks equals more options.

I really wonder if Milwaukee would rather have Mike as opposed to grooming a rookie small forward.

CableKC
05-23-2008, 03:09 PM
He did a nice job on Garnett I thought, I think Varejeo is an excellent defender. I think he's like top 15 at the position good. I think I'm alot higher on him as most, it seems.

Z is almost 33 and his feet I think are 53. I think I'm alot lower on him than most. He may be the slowest guy in the league. I really can't think of one guy slower.
I would counter that JONeal is a 29/30 year old that has the knees of a 53 year old...:(

As for Varajeo....I would love to have him too.....I just think that IF we wanted to keep him....we would have to figure out a way to resign him. I am pretty sure that he is going to opt out in the 2009/2010 season.

Speed
05-23-2008, 03:21 PM
I would counter that JONeal is a 29/30 year old that has the knees of a 53 year old...:(

As for Varajeo....I would love to have him too.....I just think that IF we wanted to keep him....we would have to figure out a way to resign him. I am pretty sure that he is going to opt out in the 2009/2010 season.

I'll not counter with that I agree, JO is 30 going on 35. He may blow up somewhere else, so what. The very best scenario is keep him, he plays like crazy out of his mind and more importantly, he plays. Then going into his contract year, you can maybe get alot more for him. Or he's an expiring contract and you can get alot more for him. Well maybe not alot cuz THIS is a good deal to me. You aren't taking additional years, or only one for Andy (I like that, thanks). I'd take a deal like this and run, buyout Tinsley, draft two kids and take my lumps next year with a pretty good future in mind, hopefully. Its mainly just about moving on, I guess, and not getting beat over the head in the process.

As for Andy, always a nice problem to have when you have guys you think are good enough you have to figure a way to resign them. Worst case scenario, he opts out and you sign and trade him for another piece, if the price is ridiculous (more than Jeff Foster makes). I don't think you really lose, unless someone is under the real cap and wants to break the bank for Sideshow Bob.

Again, just the nicknames are worth it, already we have Andy and Bob (JayRedd) and Sideshow Bob and Flopinator (I just made that up), Very A hole (that one too), Foster Jr (edited after Shade posted). I could go on. I wait to see if he ends up here first, I guess.

Shade
05-23-2008, 03:23 PM
I'm about 50/50 on this.

I'm not a big fan of Z, though I'd love to have Foster Jr. and the #19 pick.

If we could somehow move Z and Foster each for a 1st rounder, I'd love it. We'd then have Varejao and 3 extra 1st rounders for JO and Foster.

Smoothdave1
05-23-2008, 03:33 PM
Not a fan of Z. I think the Pacers can find another trade partner who will flinch and offer a better deal for JO.


Would anyone do a Zbo, #6 pick and filler for JO? Not advocating a deal, but I read that NY is looking to move Zbo, Curry and/or Marbury and is willing to include their pick to do so.

Young
05-23-2008, 03:42 PM
Would anyone do a Zbo, #6 pick and filler for JO? Not advocating a deal, but I read that NY is looking to move Zbo, Curry and/or Marbury and is willing to include their pick to do so.

No I would not do it.

If Donnie is willing to trade the 6th pick and Marbury or whoever for Jermaine something is wrong there. The 6th pick is pretty freaking good and to dump an expiering contract or a cheaper more productive big like Curry or Zach for Jermaine's missed games and high salary something is wrong there if Donnie is willing to make that move. He isn't stupid.

Speed
05-23-2008, 03:45 PM
Not a fan of Z. I think the Pacers can find another trade partner who will flinch and offer a better deal for JO.


Would anyone do a Zbo, #6 pick and filler for JO? Not advocating a deal, but I read that NY is looking to move Zbo, Curry and/or Marbury and is willing to include their pick to do so.

I hadn't thought about this "rumor" as the starting pistol to set the price for JO, I like that, let's get the wheels turning. All bids in by the start of the draft, may the best team/offer win.

Who is Zbo? I'm not sure it matters, I can't think of one contrac er um player I want from them. But I likes me some #6, unless its Lopez or Gallineri.

Ownagedood
05-23-2008, 03:55 PM
The extra pick could be nice but I'll pass on Big Z.
What the heck are u smokin?? We get that much for our old JO.. Whom many ppl think have negative value.. DO IT. Bron would probably like JO to be there and it would be nice to have a shooting big another jeff foster and a pick..If this offer ever really comes on the table.. You can't turn that down if ur the pacers..

Anthem
05-23-2008, 04:20 PM
Who is Zbo? I'm not sure it matters, I can't think of one contrac er um player I want from them. But I likes me some #6, unless its Lopez or Gallineri.
I think he means Zach Randolph.

Honestly, I'd probably pass on that deal. I'd love to have the #6, but that guy is pure trouble and his contract goes on forever.

pacergod2
05-23-2008, 04:52 PM
This trade makes sense to me. (Assuming JO for Snow, Z, the 19th overall, and a 2009 second rounder)

PG - West, D. Jones
SG - Gibson, Pavlovic
SF - LeBron, Szczerbiak
PF- JO, Verejao, Second Rounder
C - Ben Wallace, J. Smith

That is probably the best defensive front court in the league. This team needs to sign a bunch of D-League guys or go over the luxury tax. They have the most marketable player in the world so I think they can handle a little luxury tax to provide "Bron Bron" with a deeper bench. Obviously Verejao is a better player to get back, however there would have to be more players added to the deal to make it work. Snow might come off the books now instead of after this year if the insurance policy kicks in for his injuries (supposedly). This trade doesn't hurt our cap flexibility when JO would come off the books so it doesn't hurt us in that regard. I guess my interest is the first rounder and if we have to take Snow instead of Verejao we should get a future 2nd.

pacergod2
05-23-2008, 05:06 PM
Of course this deal involves us "rebuilding" and thus shipping the likes of tinsley, foster, murphy, dunleavy, and/or daniels out of town as well. Daniels, Foster, Snow's contract (if we are contending although doubtful) and Zydrunas would be nice trade pieces at the deadline.

I would not do ANY deal that involves Zach Randolph if I am this organization, not even for Tinsley.

I would take an expiring Stephon Marbury cause he wouldn't be involved in the teams plans even for this year.

BlueNGold
05-23-2008, 06:29 PM
How much better of a deal can one expect for a 20M/yr part-time player with a serious knee injury? One that has not played a full season in years. One that will never be worth close to his pay even when healthy.

It's time to turn the page. Even if you don't like the deal, you have to wonder how much better of a deal we could get. It will not get better...not unless JO has a break-out year next year. Good luck with that btw. He is more likely to have something break. Combine this with the fact this deal would make Foster a tradeable asset, you have to do it.

Tom White
05-23-2008, 07:02 PM
Of course this deal involves us "rebuilding" and thus shipping the likes of tinsley, foster, murphy, dunleavy, and/or daniels out of town as well.

Why would you think that?

I mean the Pacers would just be trading a player that has only been available in half-season increments for a full year player. Then you are simply replacing names at the end of the bench (like Owens) with draft picks.

indygeezer
05-23-2008, 07:10 PM
There will be no offers for JO this year, especially ones that involve a high no. 1.

But go ahead, have fun....just don't take yourselves too seriously.

Shade
05-23-2008, 08:15 PM
I'd take Marbury and the #6 for JO. In a heartbeat, actually.

D-BONE
05-23-2008, 10:05 PM
If we get anything superior to the rumor from the original post here, I might **** myself. I mean Z, Varejao, and another 1st rounder. I could easily contend that's fantasy land for JO.

Shade
05-23-2008, 10:22 PM
The question is whether this is a better deal than we could get in a year when JO's contract becomes an expiring. I don't expect JO to ever get back to anywhere near 100% again.

esabyrn333
05-23-2008, 10:30 PM
Blazers are looking to trade #13 I say we tell the Cavs to get bent and see what we can do to get the Cavs pick. 11 & 13 could be very nice I would be happy to watch DJ & Love playin with JO, Danny, Mike next year.

DJ
Danny
Mike
Kevin
JO

Love gets the rebound hits Dunleavy on the fast break he is double teamed WAIT what a sweet pass to a cutting DJ for the easy 2....Boom Baby now thats a fast break

Shade
05-23-2008, 10:45 PM
It looks like a lot of teams are looking to move their picks this year. I hope we take advantage of the situation and stock up.

Coop
05-23-2008, 10:46 PM
Love gets the rebound hits Dunleavy on the fast break he is double teamed WAIT what a sweet pass to a cutting DJ for the easy 2....Boom Baby now thats a fast break

Is this before or after the opposing team scores 100+ on us every night?

Anthem
05-23-2008, 10:46 PM
I'd take Marbury and the #6 for JO. In a heartbeat, actually.
I think we all would. But Zach is a whole nother story.

count55
05-23-2008, 10:50 PM
Is this before or after the opposing team scores 100+ on us every night?

So, you're saying the defense is going to improve?

esabyrn333
05-23-2008, 10:52 PM
Is this before or after the opposing team scores 100+ on us every night?


I really beleave JO will be healthy next year I don't see him as being like he was but I see him anchoring our post. Kevin Love is said to be a craft on the ball defender with smart quick hands....Defense get even better... I love DJ and think he is going to be a solid PG for years to come but if your not sold on him we can sub him out for Westbrook...Solid defender...We make the right moves this team is going to be fun to watch

I say something like this

Foster & 41 for Przybilla & 13 and maybe cash...I like it

Smoothdave1
05-23-2008, 10:55 PM
Here's the thing about JO: Even though a lot of us think that he's done, there's still some intrigue out there. A team on the cusp (Cleveland, Dallas, Utah, Houston, Phoenix, etc.) might flinch and may see JO as the player to get them over the hurdle. A team like Dallas has a limited window (like the Pacers did in the late 90's) and might pull the trigger on a deal that would surprise us.

Need an example? See Shaq to Phx, Gasol to Lakers, Wallace to Cleveland, Kidd to Dallas, etc.

As far Zbo (Zach Randolph), I don't know if the Pacers would be interested. I know a lot of people are interested in obtaining draft picks and this would add to our youth. I would love to have the pick (#6). Plus, Randolph lives in Indy during the off-season and I believe works out at the Fieldhouse occasionally (similar to Artest who spends part of his summer in Indy and works out at the Fieldhouse as well).

Coop
05-23-2008, 10:56 PM
I would love to get both Westbrook and CDR in this draft. After that, you're set at the 1-2-3. You can hold on to Jermaine until his contract is expiring and then address post play next offseason. That's JMO though.

esabyrn333
05-23-2008, 11:05 PM
Here's the thing about JO: Even though a lot of us think that he's done, there's still some intrigue out there. A team on the cusp (Cleveland, Dallas, Utah, Houston, Phoenix, etc.) might flinch and may see JO as the player to get them over the hurdle. A team like Dallas has a limited window (like the Pacers did in the late 90's) and might pull the trigger on a deal that would surprise us.

Need an example? See Shaq to Phx, Gasol to Lakers, Wallace to Cleveland, Kidd to Dallas, etc.

As far Zbo (Zach Randolph), I don't know if the Pacers would be interested. I know a lot of people are interested in obtaining draft picks and this would add to our youth. I would love to have the pick (#6). Plus, Randolph lives in Indy during the off-season and I believe works out at the Fieldhouse occasionally (similar to Artest who spends part of his summer in Indy and works out at the Fieldhouse as well).


Do you think a Randolph, Rose #6 for JO is realistic...
I don't know if they would do it or if we would even do it. I think if they did do it they would want #11 or want us to take Jeffries instead of Rose then we can draft EJ thats alot of locals on one team.

Smoothdave1
05-23-2008, 11:37 PM
Before anyone thinks I am advocating a JO for Randolph deal (which I'm not), I am pointing out a few things:

1. Speculation has been that New York wants to make a run at Lebron, Wade or whomever else after the 2009-2010 season. I believe that Lebron has something in his deal with Nike that bumps up his endoresement salary if he is playing in a top media market.

2. Pacers seem willing to part with JO for a young player and/or pick. This has been said all along.

3. Walsh and Isiah Thomas (yes, he still works for the Knicks), were the ones who brought JO to the Pacers originally. I know that JO and Isiah still have a great relationship and it seems like Bird and JO don't get along

4. Knicks have a new GM in Donnie Walsh and a new coach in D'Antoni. Walsh knows the Pacers roster better than anyone and D'Antoni seems ready and willing to make some changes

5. As I mentioned before, Randolph lives in Indy during the off-season and I believe he works out at the Fieldhouse occasionally. IF the Pacers were interested, I feel as though they would know what they were getting before a deal were struck.

6. Pacers don't need any off-court incidents. We've seen what Tinsley, Artest, Marquis, Jax, etc. have caused and cost the organization. Could they be assured that if Randolph or Marbury joined the team?

7. Pacers don't really have an identity now. Are they trying to win now to build for down the road?

It just seems like New York would be a logical place for Jermaine. With that said, would you want any pieces from NY? Would you be willing to take a Randolph or a Curry and others if it meant getting or swapping for the #6 pick? Just something to talk about and discuss.

croz24
05-23-2008, 11:40 PM
"But here's one intriguing one I heard today: The Cleveland Cavaliers could trade Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Anderson Varejao and the No. 19 pick to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal."

Been reported as bogus, but at 19 we could add someone like CDR, Rush, Walker, Speights, R. Lopez or Courtney Lee.

something is better than nothing for jo. had we traded him 2yrs ago, we wouldn't have to settle for the 19th pick in the draft. but out of the guys you mentioned, i'd love to get walker, speights, lee, cdr, rush, (drop off) lopez in that order...i'd also obviously look at jason thompson, joe a if he slips, or donte greene...

Shade
05-23-2008, 11:41 PM
What does the rest of Randolph's contract look like?

croz24
05-23-2008, 11:43 PM
Do you think a Randolph, Rose #6 for JO is realistic...
I don't know if they would do it or if we would even do it. I think if they did do it they would want #11 or want us to take Jeffries instead of Rose then we can draft EJ thats alot of locals on one team.

i'd think it were realistic. maybe throw in shawne with jo. idk if i want randolph near this team but the #6 pick in the draft would be awesome. hopefully we'd draft whoever out of mayo, bayless, randolph slid.

BlueNGold
05-23-2008, 11:44 PM
I suspect the Simons will veto any deal bringing Randolph to Indiana. Personally, I would stop believing anything anyone in the Pacers organization had to say if they brought him here. He's just too questionable and too likely to run into issues, particularly since this is his home.

As for Marbury and the #6 pick, I would be willing to send them another asset along with JO to get that deal. We cut salary earlier and will get a really good player at #6. IMO, that could be the right move for both organizations.

Anthem
05-23-2008, 11:45 PM
What does the rest of Randolph's contract look like?
It's horrific.

BlueNGold
05-23-2008, 11:47 PM
What does the rest of Randolph's contract look like?

Not certain, but I think he has 3 more years at roughly 15M per.

Young
05-23-2008, 11:47 PM
6. Pacers don't need any off-court incidents. We've seen what Tinsley, Artest, Marquis, Jax, etc. have caused and cost the organization. Could they be assured that if Randolph or Marbury joined the team?

7. Pacers don't really have an identity now. Are they trying to win now to build for down the road?

It just seems like New York would be a logical place for Jermaine. With that said, would you want any pieces from NY? Would you be willing to take a Randolph or a Curry and others if it meant getting or swapping for the #6 pick? Just something to talk about and discuss.

On paper getting the 6th pick is great value for Jermaine. Eddy Curry is a solid center that plays more than Jermaine and I can live with his contract.

I think that Zach and Stephon have had some off the court problems, maybe minor, and I would hope the Pacers stay away from them. Eddy hasn't as far as I know he just hasn't lived up to his potential.

Let me say I would consider Curry, Malik Rose, and the 6th pick. Hell i'd probably do it. But I would wonder why New York would want do? Why they want to take on Jermaine's contract and injury concerns. I'm not going to lie to deal with Donnie this soon scares me. He knows this roster as well as anyone and he will know the Knicks better than we do so he has a very good perspective to make a very good deal for himself.

Maybe I underrate Jermaine but I would think that the Knicks would ask to swap picks with us which still might be ok for us. Curry, Rose, 6th pick for Jermiane, 11th. Then the Pacers have a much better choice of players to pick from and really do not give up anything significant. Curry will probably play more than Jermaine and therefore produce more, Rose is expiering, and the 6th pick is much better than number 11.

CableKC
05-24-2008, 12:16 AM
What does the rest of Randolph's contract look like?
About $16-17 mil per year over the next 3 years.....a guaranteed $48 mil.

Smoothdave1
05-24-2008, 12:24 AM
Why do Knicks make a deal? Knicks have a new coach and GM. Walsh is strapped as far as the cap is concerned and knows he can only get better via trade or draft. The thing about a trade is that no one is going to knock down the Knicks door to get Richardson, Jefferies, Curry, Jerome James, Marbury (other than his contract comes off the books), Crawford, etc. Knicks have some young players and lack veteran leadership. Walsh knows that if he wants the team to get better, he must include their pick to sweeten the deal to get a team to take a contract like that of Randolph's or Curry's.

esabyrn333
05-24-2008, 08:12 AM
Let me say I would consider Curry, Malik Rose, and the 6th pick. Hell i'd probably do it. But I would wonder why New York would want do? Why they want to take on Jermaine's contract and injury concerns. I'm not going to lie to deal with Donnie this soon scares me. He knows this roster as well as anyone and he will know the Knicks better than we do so he has a very good perspective to make a very good deal for himself.



To make the salaries work we would also have to take Jareed Jeffries and probably have to throw in Shawn. I would probably do it before Zach just because of the smaller contracts. I would still go after the Blazers pick at 13 also. I personally don't see why the Knicks would trade that pick.

If they give it up and move Curry they would have given up Ben Gordon, Lamarcus Aldridge, Jokim Noah and Eric Gordon to rent Eddy Curry for a few seasons

Tom White
05-24-2008, 09:17 AM
11 & 13 could be very nice I would be happy to watch DJ & Love playin with JO, Danny, Mike next year.

So you are going to keep O'Neal, Granger and Dun, and yet still manage to get the Blazers (not the Cavs) #13?

Just what are you going to entice them with?

owl
05-24-2008, 09:44 AM
Send them an expiring contract and a number 1 next year or the year after?
Diogu and a number 1?

Mourning
05-24-2008, 09:46 AM
[B][I][COLOR=#000080]I say something like this

Foster & 41 for Przybilla & 13 and maybe cash...I like it

I'm sure you like it, but there's also the other team who would prob hate it.

Mourning
05-24-2008, 09:48 AM
Send them an expiring contract and a number 1 next year or the year after?
Diogu and a number 1?

I'm not happy at all about sending another first rounder out to say the least.

owl
05-24-2008, 09:55 AM
I'm not happy at all about sending another first rounder out to say the least.

That probably means it is a fair deal. It really depends on if a player you badly want is their at 13. If so you gotta give to get. Plus if JO plays well and is in his last year could easily be turned into a first round pick to replace what you lost.
Getting two first rounders this year might be desirable to speed up the re-building process.

esabyrn333
05-24-2008, 11:31 AM
So you are going to keep O'Neal, Granger and Dun, and yet still manage to get the Blazers (not the Cavs) #13?

Just what are you going to entice them with?

I would say Jeff Foster he has an expiring contract and play off experince to help all of there young guys out, a second round pick or a conditional first down the road, money and taking Joel Pryzbilla contract off of thier books. I think that is pretty fair for the 13 pick.

They are loaded with young players they don't want another pick to add to the group they have they need a good charcter vet to be a leader in the locker room that has been thourgh some battles. Not to mention if they need to make a move at the trade deadline they would have Foster and Lafrentz...to very nice expiring contracts for trade bate

Oneal07
05-24-2008, 12:49 PM
Cleveland is not gonna trade Big Z

eldubious
05-24-2008, 06:03 PM
I don't think this trade will do anything for the Pacers, Zeke would be a stiff in Indy. The Pacers should focus on the Bulls, who will have to move Hinrich, while the market for big men is low. Then again, you could see Zeke in Chicago and Hinrich in Cleveland.