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View Full Version : A couple of other players for consideration for the Pacers draft pick



Kemo
05-22-2008, 10:05 PM
In keeping with the drafting thread trend going on... I'd like to start a discussion on a few players I don't see much talk about around here.. and see what you guys think....



Over at NBA.com there are some videos up on alot of the players..
I think everyone should check them out... pretty cool...

I personally would be happy with Westbrook or Augustin.. if that is who we end up with.... barring Gordon or Love isn't on the boards still

But there are a few others who have really sparked my interest , and that's why I made this thread to get everyone elses opinions on these guys....

Here is a link to highlight videos of each of these players...

---> http://www.nba.com/draft2008/prospect_highlights.html


First up on my list of guys I like..

Chase Buddinger ...
Physicals:
H: 6' 7"
W: 190 lbs
Bday: 12/31/1987
(20 Years Old)
Positions:
Current: SG/SF
NBA: SG/SF
Possible: SG/SF

Profile : http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Chase-Budinger-502/

I really like this guy , I think he will end up being a way better player than most anticipate.. and I think the coaches at Arizona know this to be true as well.. He has EXCELLENT ballhandling skills, is excellent around the rim, due to his experience as one of the top 5 volleyball players in the country.. He also according to his coaches is a VERY team oriented player , is unselfish , and is constantly pushing himself to get better..

next we have

Roy Hibbert

Physicals:
H: 7' 2"
W: 272 lbs
Bday: 12/11/1986
(21 Years Old)
Positions:
Current: C
NBA: C
Possible: C

Rankings:
Round: 1 Pick: 23 in 2008 Mock Draft
Rank 1 in NCAA Seniors
Rank 6 in Top Centers

Profile : http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Roy-Hibbert-585/

Don't know much about this guy , except for what I have seen in some highlight footage.. and he looked to be pretty solid.. but could use some more muscle packed on him . opinions??



So what about these 2 guys, providing they are still on the board, and the Pacer's decide against DJ or Westbrooke .. or that no other players such as Gordon or Love are left for us...

I am not as concerned on this particular thread about us drafting by need, as we all know what we need.. lol I am just trying to get some opinions and info on these other 2 guys I dont see much talk about...
I think regardless of NEED we should pick the absolute best player..


Discuss !!

Trader Joe
05-22-2008, 10:28 PM
Well if we draft either of the two guys you like I'll be throwing myself off the top of Conseco.

If Buddinger is so talented how come he didn't progress from his freshman year to his sophomore year? How come he couldn't help get Jerryd Bayless even past the first round of the tournament? It would seem to me that a top 5 pick paired with a lotto pick should be enough to get out of the first round. Basically I don't think Buddinger showed anything in his two years at Zona to show he is constantly working to get better. Buddinger's stats basically stayed exactly the same from his freshman to sophomore year. Sure he averaged 17.1 pts his soph year compared to 15.6 his freshman year, but he did that with two more minutes a game and his FG% decreased from 48% to 44%. I'm not even mildly interested in selecting Buddinger with the 11th pick.

Also, don't even get me started on HIbbert. This guy is not going to amount to anything in the NBA. He is seven feet tall and could barely rebound in college.

Anthem
05-22-2008, 11:06 PM
Pass. No offense, but if that's the best we can do with a #11 pick I'll be upset.

Kemo
05-22-2008, 11:31 PM
this is why I am asking YOU GUYS !!! lol

I didnt SAY I wanted us to pick them... I was just interested in finding more out about them .. GEESH!! and yes I said I Liked Buddinger.. I didn't say OH GOD WE SHOULD DRAFT HIM!!!!!!



And as for the 2 guys I SAID I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH US PICKING , Westbrooke and Augustin..

If you would seriously throw yourself off Conseco if we picked one of them, oh pretty please ??.. let me escort you , I'll bring the beer and chips heh.. lol j/p

Just cause a player isn't one of the top few DOES NOT mean that they can't develop into something as good or better than the top few picks..

Look at Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili for example... Parker couldnt shoot a jump shot to save his life... but he WORKED at it.. what was he like a 25th pick or something? . and look at him now..
and what Manu was at the end of the line being drafted.. and I guarantee ANY NBA team would LOVE to have him right now..

draft position DOESN'T MEAN SQUAT...

Trader Joe
05-22-2008, 11:34 PM
Your second post lost me. Don't post a thread asking what people think if you're just gonna freak out when they give you their opinion.

Kemo
05-22-2008, 11:54 PM
nah I wasn't freaking out , lol.. I just dont like it when you ASSUME I want to draft the 2 guys i asked about.. trying to make me look like a dumba$$ for even asking about them...

I didn't ask for a comment trying to belittle my post and genuine curiousity.... by you saying you would throw yourself off conseco .. cause of what I was asking about... I just wanted to know what people thought of hibbert and buddinger.. thats all..

If you think I was trying to be an a$$..
I appologize and am
sorry for coming off like I was freaking out , lol..

I just hate feeling belittled when all I am doing is asking about something..


but ya , anyways ... lets move along.. ...

lets use this thread to discuss the not often talked about players.. I just had given a few examples..

thank you

himikey
05-23-2008, 12:15 AM
IMHO Roy Hibbert is moderately skilled, but is slower than dirt, can't jump and is out of shape. Woulda been a lottery pick if he came out last year. But 60% FG and 2 BPG will make him a decent role player somewhere.

Chase Budinger is a lot like Sean Elliott in that he is a sweet shooting swingman from Arizona that is a complete sieve on D.

croz24
05-23-2008, 12:23 AM
more like thompson, walker, greene, lawson, lee, cdr, rush, koufos, giddens, singletary...

Young
05-23-2008, 12:30 AM
My thoughts on these two players.

Buddinger.

Good talent on paper. He has everything you want in a wing player with decent size, athletic ability, and skills. No troubles off the court that I know of either.

To me though Buddinger just hasn't player up to his talent level. He hasn't put it all together. He really didn't show improvement from his freshman to sophmore seasons either, IMO. I will admit I did not watch him a lot this season, only a few times, but when I did see him play he never stood out to me. Maybe this isn't such a bad thing either.

Another thing about Buddinger is we already have Mike and Danny. When you look at Westbrook there is a chance he developes into a point or at the very least he can be a defensive presence in the backcourt. With a guy like Eric Gordon, if he were to fall to us at 11, he can be a more productive player than Buddinger IMO. So even if we were high on Buddinger I think there will be players on the board that could be just as good or better than Chase when its all said and done.

Please I hope we stay away from Roy Hibbert. It's nothing against him. Roy just isn't worth of being picked at 11. I think there are teams in the 20s that would be great for him though. Teams such as Utah, Orlando, and Detroit.

Not to change your thread Kemo but i'll list some prospects I think are better for the Pacers than Buddinger/Hibbert that do not get talked about much.

Donte Greene.

This kid is a wild card player. He really is similar to Shawne Williams, maybe just a little taller. I would take a chance on him though. Hell in this day and age he probably could play the 4 with some added strength. Really a good talent.

Marreese Speights.

Not unheard of around here but Augistin/Westbrook get all the talk around here. I think that Speights is my favorite big man prospect for the Pacers at this point. Chad Ford had some nice things to say about him lately. He lost some weight recently and improved his shot. Great pick and roll player according to his nbadraft.net profile so take it for what its worth.

Question about his desire and defense. He doesn't always play with the fire you would like to see.

Joe Alexander.

He is one of the most interesting players in the draft. I really like his game and approach. If we were to take another wing player I think I would pick Joe over Donte, Batum, and Buddinger. The knock on him is his lack of range but to be honest I kind of like that. He takes shots within his range and that's a huge plus. You see a lot of guys shooting the three that shouldn't be but Joe is not one of them. I have even began to wonder if the Pacers should take Joe over Westbrook or Augistin? To me, Joe will be the better player but Westbrook or Augistin could fill needs for us. They say you don't draft on need in the NBA though so who knows.

My question with Joe is can he play any power forward for a winning team? He does not have the height but is a solid athlete and has a good wingspan. Ike comes to mind here and I think that it has less to do with Ike's height and more to do with his head (not to be a prick) as to why he doesn't do well on defense. If it came down to it I would take Joe over most of the other bigs. At worst Joe turns into a good player but can't play the 4 and him, Danny, or Mike have to be moved down the line.

Here is a little about Joe A from draftexpress.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Joe-Alexander-1185/

croz24
05-23-2008, 12:42 AM
rommie - i like your take on greene and jumpin joe

d_c
05-23-2008, 01:46 AM
Budinger is a decent enough talent, but as mentioned, didn't show much improvement this season. Nothing about his game truly stands out and you already have Dunleavy/Granger as SF. If he plays SG, he's going to be at a quickness disadvantage more often than not.

Hibbert has nice touch around the basket and overall offensive feel, but the guy is just too slow and lacks the athleticism and stamina to be a full time starter in the NBA. He'd be decent pick from 25-30 for a halfcourt team like Utah as a backup C.

As far as Joe Alexander, he's got nice leaping ability and a stepback jumper, but that's about all I saw.
All his dunk highlights seem to be during practice/scrimmage other than that one dunk against UConn shown over and over again. He didn't show much ability to take a guy off the dribble or really finish inside in traffic.

Alexander to me looks like a shorter Yi Jianlian. He's got some good length and athleticism, but he's going to get pushed around at the PF and probably doesn't have the footspeed to defend NBA SFs.

croz24
05-23-2008, 02:23 AM
all his dunk highlights dc? you watch joe at all at wv? joe has more than a stepback jumper. he's one of the more well rounded offensive players in this draft as far as his ability to create a shot for himself. can post up, drive, step back, run off screens, and he actually finishes in traffic. he's a safe pick for whomever drafts him. doubt he'll be great, but should definitely be a solid starter for a contender...imo...

Speed
05-23-2008, 07:46 AM
Hibbert very best case scenario, Desagna Diop or maybe Jarron Collins.

Chase, maybe Joey Graham? Thats a hard one.

Joe Alexander really surprised me with his handles a bunch of times I saw him. I actually got to see West Virginia play quite a bit due to having close family from there. He's raw to me, but he has some tools, I don't have a good comparison.

I was really impressed on how much his teammates looked to him and leaned on him. Thats always a sign to me of a teams best player, when you see teammates have faith in someone when stuff breaks down offensively.

Again he can handle the ball excellent when creating a shot, its a little wild and I don't mean handle it like a point guard bringing the ball up the court or real tight/close to the body handle. I guess I'm saying its sloppy, but very fixable. He's a better dribble drive guy right now than the Pacers small forward with a big/quick first step and an array of behind the back/moves to get to the rack. I remember a couple of ankle breakers going to the hole throughout the season.

It'll take him some work, to do things against NBA defenders, but this really impressed me.

Lastly, I don't think he is close to having NBA range on a 3, but he can hit a jumper for sure. Again, very fixable. All of his flaws seem fixable to me.

Maybe I guess I'd say a really really raw and poor mans Richard Jefferson comparison, but even thats not really right and I'm not saying he'll be an allstar or whatever.

croz24
05-23-2008, 09:30 AM
i think jeff green could be a good comparison for joe

owl
05-23-2008, 09:41 AM
I like what I have seen of Joe Alexander. He has great slashing ability and better handles than Granger does now. His shot is not as developed from the outside yet but he has
the tremendous drive to get better. He is a leader.
With his physical abilities and desire I rank him very highly. Pick at 11? Maybe if Westbrook and Love are gone. It also depends on how TPTB evaluate the bigs outside of Love such
as Speights and McGee. There is some great video on Speights and Alexander on the ESPN site that was posted elsewhere.

I would love to see the Pacers getting a second pick this year in the first. Maybe they can
get Portlands? Trade away an expiring or young player and a pick.

SoupIsGood
05-23-2008, 09:49 AM
You know, does Bird perhaps have his eye on someone slotted to go in the 11-17 range with most the mocks? He seemed pretty confident he'd get a good player, and that means he's either got like 11-13 guys at the top of the draft that he loves (unlikely), or that he's going to make a "reach."

Maybe he's got his eye on McGee? Or maybe he's sold on Augustine. Or maybe he's committed to taking the risk on Jordan?

owl
05-23-2008, 09:59 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3404700&categoryId=2911161&n8pe6c=2


Video.

Speed
05-23-2008, 10:06 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3404700&categoryId=2911161&n8pe6c=2


Video.


Have I mentioned Joe can handle the ball.

Jonathan
05-23-2008, 10:16 AM
Larry Bird might take Nicholas Batum as a wing player. The kid has all the tools but just needs some time. Batum would step up if we are unable to sign Danny Granger. Odds are the Pacers are either going big or pg with the 11th pick. Bird likes players that can run the court and play muliple positions (not Hibbert) Speights, Jordan, & J Mcgee are all possibilities unless he is 100% sold on DJ Augustine/Westbrook/Chalmers. Chalmers could be a reach at 11; but if Larry wants a pg and thinks he is the best PG on the board he will be picked.

themayhem87
05-23-2008, 12:54 PM
more like thompson, walker, greene, lawson, lee, cdr, rush, koufos, giddens, singletary...


why would we overreach for any of these players? These are end of the 1st round players. Only 1 you could think about would be rush. Singeltary isn't a 1st round pick on any mock draft on any site

Kegboy
05-23-2008, 02:59 PM
I am already on record that if we draft Buddinger I'm PFFL'ing.

Anthem
05-23-2008, 04:08 PM
I just hate feeling belittled when all I am doing is asking about something...
Yeah, I'm the same way. My bad man. I really wasn't reacting to you, I was reacting to Hibbert.

Keep on keeping on.

Speed
05-23-2008, 04:10 PM
I am already on record that if we draft Buddinger I'm PFFL'ing.

Pacer Fan For Life ing?

Anthem
05-23-2008, 04:28 PM
Pacer Fan For Life ing?
Exactly.

NuffSaid
05-23-2008, 04:46 PM
Budinger has a nice shooting touch w/long-ball range and decent ball handling skills, but I didn't see much from him on the defensive end and for a SF that should be part of his skill-set.

As for Hibbert, dunk...dunk...dunk...dunk...

I saw only one blocked shot in his highlight reel, a few off-balance post-up moves and that was about it. He does run the floor fairly well, but he didn't look to me to be all that polished. Not quite ready for prime-time just yet, but in 2-3 years he should be.

Should the Pacers draft either of these guys? I'd say no. They're already grooming Shawne Williams @ SF. So, Budinger would be out. If they do draft a Center, I'd hope they'd select Kosta Koufos. This guy plays under the rim deep in the paint, has quick hands, very good lateral movement, has a keen eye for tracking the bouncing ball to get rebounds/tips-ins and he knows how to box out effectively. Plus, he's already a big-body. So, it wouldn't take much to get him ready for the NBA. IMO, whoever gets him will get a very skilled and talented Center.

DisplacedKnick
05-23-2008, 04:53 PM
If you're going for Budinger - who I'm moderately high on - I think you can trade down in the draft to get him. And if you trade down in the draft to get a SG, get CDR before Budinger.

Hibbert will be a useful NBA backup IMO. If he's around at about 25 he'd be an OK pick.

owl
05-23-2008, 07:19 PM
I am already on record that if we draft Buddinger I'm PFFL'ing.


Indy said.."Well if we draft either of the two guys you like I'll be throwing myself off the top of Conseco."


Various Hollywood liberals..."You elect him for President and I am leaving the country"

Of course they never do.

These kinds of statements do provide some humor I guess. People need to be more creative though.

Trader Joe
05-23-2008, 08:54 PM
God, some of you need to calm down. Anyone on here makes some sort of exagerrated comment and they get jumped all over.

Kegboy
05-23-2008, 09:05 PM
Indy said.."Well if we draft either of the two guys you like I'll be throwing myself off the top of Conseco."


Various Hollywood liberals..."You elect him for President and I am leaving the country"

Of course they never do.

These kinds of statements do provide some humor I guess. People need to be more creative though.

Is a PFFL reference not creative enough? I seem to remember a history of the site thread somewhere, perhaps I should go check on it, (even though, technically, PFFL was at RATS.)

[edit] And to be perfectly clear, I swear on everything remotely holy I will renounce the Pacers under Larry Bird if we draft Chase Buddinger. I won't leave the board, but Hicks will probably ban me eventually for repeatedly calling them the Indiana Whitewashers.

owl
05-23-2008, 09:38 PM
Indy, not trying to single you out I just thought it amusing the passion people exhibit
by their dramatic comments.

And yes Kegboy pffling(verb) is actually pretty creative. I remember the original.

I hope you would stay however even if Buddinger was chosen. I would find that pick
hard to swallow. Take McGee or Love or Speights before Chase please. Alexander is a better
version of Chase if that is the direction he wants to go.

Anthem
05-23-2008, 10:49 PM
but Hicks will probably ban me eventually for repeatedly calling them the Indiana Whitewashers.
I've been tempted several times to start a thread on that very subject, and I've refused every time because I don't like where it would go. But, yeah. No kidding.

Trader Joe
05-23-2008, 11:11 PM
I've been tempted several times to start a thread on that very subject, and I've refused every time because I don't like where it would go. But, yeah. No kidding.

I concur with you two fellows.

tdubb03
05-25-2008, 09:58 AM
Out of Darrell Arthur and Mareese Speights, who do you guys think is the better pick for the Pacers? I like Arthur.

I like Augustin, but I don't see him being much of an upgrade, now or in the long-run. I think one of our biggest problems is stopping dribble penetration, so if Westbrook's there I take him in a heartbeat, however I see him being gone, same with Kevin Love. So for me it's between Speights and Arthur.

Infinite MAN_force
05-25-2008, 11:09 AM
Out of Darrell Arthur and Mareese Speights, who do you guys think is the better pick for the Pacers? I like Arthur.

I like Augustin, but I don't see him being much of an upgrade, now or in the long-run. I think one of our biggest problems is stopping dribble penetration, so if Westbrook's there I take him in a heartbeat, however I see him being gone, same with Kevin Love. So for me it's between Speights and Arthur.


I like Speights because he has better size. Taller and stronger, and can play the 4 or the 5. He seems more NBA ready. Arthur is skinny and a poor rebounder.

Everybody freaks when someone says this, but do keep in mind. Obrien likes a PF who can also play center.

CableKC
05-25-2008, 04:51 PM
I like Speights because he has better size. Taller and stronger, and can play the 4 or the 5. He seems more NBA ready. Arthur is skinny and a poor rebounder.

Everybody freaks when someone says this, but do keep in mind. Obrien likes a PF who can also play center.
For some reason....when I see Speights, he physically reminds me of Olowakandi. I have no clue whether their games are in anyway similiar.....but when I saw his Draft video on NBA.com...I thought that it was the Kandi-man.

And yes....I would go with Speights over Arthur. From what I have read about him....he may not have the potential and higher ceiling that other Big Men like Jordan or McGee has....but he appears to be a solid NBA-Ready Big Man that can come in and contribute over the next 2 seasons.

tdubb03
05-25-2008, 05:23 PM
After reading some reports on Speights and his workouts in Vegas I'm starting to change my mind. Chad Ford says he showed a textbook jumper, all the way out the the NBA 3 and is much better shape than he ever was at Florida.

Kemo
05-01-2009, 11:17 PM
In keeping with the drafting thread trend going on... I'd like to start a discussion on a few players I don't see much talk about around here.. and see what you guys think....



Over at NBA.com there are some videos up on alot of the players..
I think everyone should check them out... pretty cool...

I personally would be happy with Westbrook or Augustin.. if that is who we end up with.... barring Gordon or Love isn't on the boards still

But there are a few others who have really sparked my interest , and that's why I made this thread to get everyone elses opinions on these guys....

Here is a link to highlight videos of each of these players...

---> http://www.nba.com/draft2008/prospect_highlights.html


First up on my list of guys I like..

Chase Buddinger ...
Physicals:
H: 6' 7"
W: 190 lbs
Bday: 12/31/1987
(20 Years Old)
Positions:
Current: SG/SF
NBA: SG/SF
Possible: SG/SF

Profile : http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Chase-Budinger-502/

I really like this guy , I think he will end up being a way better player than most anticipate.. and I think the coaches at Arizona know this to be true as well.. He has EXCELLENT ballhandling skills, is excellent around the rim, due to his experience as one of the top 5 volleyball players in the country.. He also according to his coaches is a VERY team oriented player , is unselfish , and is constantly pushing himself to get better..

next we have

Roy Hibbert

Physicals:
H: 7' 2"
W: 272 lbs
Bday: 12/11/1986
(21 Years Old)
Positions:
Current: C
NBA: C
Possible: C

Rankings:
Round: 1 Pick: 23 in 2008 Mock Draft
Rank 1 in NCAA Seniors
Rank 6 in Top Centers

Profile : http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Roy-Hibbert-585/

Don't know much about this guy , except for what I have seen in some highlight footage.. and he looked to be pretty solid.. but could use some more muscle packed on him . opinions??



So what about these 2 guys, providing they are still on the board, and the Pacer's decide against DJ or Westbrooke .. or that no other players such as Gordon or Love are left for us...

I am not as concerned on this particular thread about us drafting by need, as we all know what we need.. lol I am just trying to get some opinions and info on these other 2 guys I dont see much talk about...
I think regardless of NEED we should pick the absolute best player..


Discuss !!



Remember this thread guys???

I pretty much got everything but the kitchen sink thrown at me for suggesting Hibbert.. lol

and I STILL think we should pick up Buddinger... THIS YEAR ...

Trophy
05-01-2009, 11:20 PM
I like Speights because he has better size. Taller and stronger, and can play the 4 or the 5. He seems more NBA ready. Arthur is skinny and a poor rebounder.

Everybody freaks when someone says this, but do keep in mind. Obrien likes a PF who can also play center.

He can also shoot the ball outside the paint which is another thing O'Brien likes from big men.

MillerTime
05-01-2009, 11:48 PM
Remember this thread guys???

I pretty much got everything but the kitchen sink thrown at me for suggesting Hibbert.. lol

and I STILL think we should pick up Buddinger... THIS YEAR ...

Pretty good!

Erik
05-02-2009, 09:24 AM
I didnt SAY I wanted us to pick them... I was just interested in finding more out about them .. GEESH!! and yes I said I Liked Buddinger.. I didn't say OH GOD WE SHOULD DRAFT HIM!!!!!!
It seems that I remember a few people here that actually wanted us to take Hibbert, it doesn't seem that you were one of them.

Will Galen
05-02-2009, 12:19 PM
I didnt SAY I wanted us to pick them... I was just interested in finding more out about them .. GEESH!! and yes I said I Liked Buddinger.. I didn't say OH GOD WE SHOULD DRAFT HIM!!!!!!

And as for the 2 guys I SAID I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH US PICKING , Westbrooke and Augustin..


Remember this thread guys???

I pretty much got everything but the kitchen sink thrown at me for suggesting Hibbert.. lol

and I STILL think we should pick up Buddinger... THIS YEAR ...

Ah . . . according to your own words you didn't suggest Hibbert, you were just interested in finding out more about him and Buddinger.

Kemo
11-27-2010, 07:41 AM
Well if we draft either of the two guys you like I'll be throwing myself off the top of Conseco.


Also, don't even get me started on HIbbert. This guy is not going to amount to anything in the NBA. He is seven feet tall and could barely rebound in college.


LOL I just thought bringing up this thread would be interesting..


So Joe... how does that concrete taste?

Also I had a few threads talking about how I liked Westbrook as well as Hibbs .. and everyone turned their collective noses up..

Lance George
11-27-2010, 09:29 AM
Kemo: 1
The Rest of You: 0

:-p

Kemo
11-27-2010, 10:01 AM
lol .. totally wasn't about that.. I was actually looking up my thoughts pre-draft on Westbrook and come across this, and i found it funny as heck , that he said he'd jump off of the top of Conseco...

Hibbert
11-27-2010, 02:43 PM
Also, don't even get me started on HIbbert. This guy is not going to amount to anything in the NBA. He is seven feet tall and could barely rebound in college.

haha wow, look now.

Naptown_Seth
11-29-2010, 01:58 AM
Why not bump the prospect thread from that year instead? There's a lot more content, including me getting ripped for jocking Kevin Love when he was still ranked lower than the Pacers expected pick.

I did say Hibbert was too laterally slow for the NBA, and frankly until his MMA stuff that was true. But I did love the kid and gave him the "I don't care if he busts, I'm glad they drafted him" thread before game 1 his rookie year.


Buddinger didn't come out that year and that was a good thing because it wasn't until his final year that he found his motivation and game. I pegged him as a great "trade down 1 for 2 and get him" guy along with Sam Young, and I still feel good about that.


Kegboy and I both loved Arthur. It's true he has size limits, but his post footwork was by far the best of all frontline draft prospects that year. His teammate Jackson has been steady and reliable as well.


Draft pick I argued with a couple of people about because I thought he stunk - Joe Alexander.


ps - if it were me I'd move Dahntay and replace him with now cut (still avail I think?) Kyle Weaver. Same defense, better, smarter offense.

KennerLeaguer
11-30-2010, 03:51 AM
This old thread reminded me of a mock draft by Mike DeCourcy back in 2008. In retrospect these opinions are interesting to say the least.


http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2008-05-20/nba-mock-draft-bulls-need-rose-more-beasley



NBA mock draft: Bulls need Rose more than Beasley

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 at 1:47 am EDT

Checking in on the Chicago Bulls' home page just moments after they'd gotten lottery lucky, there still was a story about the team hoping for good fortune Tuesday evening. Above it was a picture of Kansas State All-American Michael Beasley.

Was that a clue, or just an artistic choice?

The debate regarding the No. 1 pick -- Beasley or Memphis Tigers point guard Derrick Rose -- became more compelling when the Bulls emerged with the right to make that selection. This is a team many believe to be talented enough to make a significant move forward, and the Bulls could make good use of a great scoring power forward. They have a pressing need, though, for an elite point guard.

That's why the draft will look something like this when it is conducted June 26 in New York City:

1. Chicago Bulls: Derrick Rose, 6-3, 190, PG, Memphis. He's a hometown Chicago kid, but that's not why he will be the pick. It's because point guards this good are genuinely rare, and most of those who reside in the neighborhood wind up running championship contenders. You can say Rose's name in the same sentence with Jason Kidd or Isiah Thomas without choking on the words. Rose is the most athletic point guard the game has seen.

2. Miami Heat: Michael Beasley, 6-9, 235, PF, Kansas State. The Heat gain a player who automatically will deliver double-doubles and will energize an offense that struggled to score. Beasley is an incredible shot-maker for a player his size. He can score from anywhere on the floor.


3. Minnesota Timberwolves: Jerryd Bayless, 6-3, 199, PG, Arizona. Although he never was entirely comfortable as a college point because of turnover issues, he is a willing passer and has superior quickness and leaping ability to his rival for a high draft position, O.J. Mayo. Bayless also might be a better shooter. The trick will be learning to play consistently on the ball, which he should be able to manage.

4. Seattle SuperSonics: O.J. Mayo, 6-5, 200, PG, Southern California. NBA scouts supposedly were disappointed in him early because years of hype convinced them he should be another LeBron James. Here, the party line for four years was: Mayo can be a top point guard because of his size, balance and shooting ability -- but he wouldn't be a superstar. He'll have to adapt to setting up teammates more regularly.

5. Memphis Grizzlies: Brook Lopez, 7-0, 260, C/PF, Stanford. College defenders had so much trouble keeping him off the right block that there remain questions about his game's variety. He moves so well and gets off the floor so quickly that he ought to be a top defensive presence. At the very least he'll be a starting-quality big man.

6. New York Knicks: Danilo Gallinari, 6-10, 220, SF, Armani Jeans Milano. It's not often a player at 19 earns the kind of responsibility and puts up the kind of numbers that Gallinari has in Italy and the Euro league. He could climb as high as third in the draft with the right workouts, though the Wolves have a greater need for a true point.

7. Los Angeles Clippers: Anthony Randolph, 6-11, 220, SF, LSU. Forget the comparisons to Chris Bosh. Bosh was a shooter with a serious perimeter game. Randolph is ridiculously athletic for someone so tall, and college opponents couldn't deal with that. The better comparison is Atlanta's Josh Smith, who wasn't as tall but was even more dynamic athletically; in time, he was able to find enough of a game to contribute.

8. Milwaukee Bucks: Eric Gordon, 6-4, 215, SG, Indiana. Some pro scouts looked at Gordon early on as a potential point, but a conversion would be a mistake. Gordon is a natural scorer. If Ben Gordon is big enough to do that job, Eric Gordon -- with two extra inches and superior leaping ability -- can handle it. Eric collapsed at the end of his freshman year and has commitment issues, for sure.

9. Charlotte Bobcats: D.J. Augustin, 6-0, 180, PG, Texas. Augustin is a spectacular finisher, as good as any player his size to enter the NBA in years. He is a leader and expert at playing off the pick-and-roll. The list of players his size who've become outstanding players is woefully short, though. There's no question he can start and run a team.

10. New Jersey Nets: DeAndre Jordan, 7-0, 260, C, Texas A&M. The single riskiest pick of the first round. The team that takes him gambles on a player who hasn't performed against players his size. A&M could barely play him down the stretch of his freshman season. He languished on the bench for the U.S. U-19 world championship team. But he is tall, bulky, long and a dynamic.

11. Indiana Pacers: Kevin Love, 6-10, 260, PF, UCLA. He has trouble against defenders with length and doesn't change ends smoothly. But he's probably the best pure basketball player in the draft, excelling at shooting, passing, rebounding. Some teams think he'll never score inside over NBA defenders, but even if they're right, he's already an advanced pick-and-pop player.

12. Sacramento Kings: Russell Westbrook, 6-3, 187, PG, UCLA. Westbrook still is developing the most important aspects of his game: shooting and directing an offense. He hit only 33.7 percent of his threes and had balky moments running the Bruins while Darren Collison was injured. But Westbrook's athleticism ranks with the best at his position, and his engaging personality will help in running an NBA team.

13. Portland Trail Blazers: Darrell Arthur, 6-9, 225, PF, Kansas. David West's success with the Hornets ought to create a nice market for Arthur, who has similar size, a comparable game and greater athleticism. Arthur had the guts to make some of the most important baskets in KU's championship game victory. He will grow into a nice pick-and-pop weapon. Arthur could stand to become a hungrier rebounder.

14. Golden State Warriors: Nicolas Batum, 6-8, 214, SF, Le Mans Sarthe Basket, France. Batum played well at the U-19 World Championships last summer and starred in the annual Hoop Summit game against top U.S. high school talent. It's disconcerting that he did not play a greater role for Le Mans, but he has excellent athleticism and a true small forward game.

15. Phoenix Suns: Chase Budinger, 6-7, 203, SF/SG, Arizona. Budinger has exceptional jumping ability and a sweet shooting touch. He's still at his best moving in one direction and isn't effective breaking down defenders, but Rip Hamilton has made himself a star by playing that way. Budinger managed not to be beaten down by difficult circumstances at Arizona.

16. Philadelphia 76ers: JaVale McGee, 7-0, 237, C, Nevada. McGee's length and strength make him intriguing, but he is well behind the curve in terms of development. He's just not been good very long; McGee mostly watched as a freshman. His offense will need to be polished. McGee could be the first top-20 pick from this class to do a spell in the D-League.


17. Toronto Raptors: Chris Douglas-Roberts, 6-7, 200, SF/SG, Memphis. CDR's hometown Detroit Pistons don't pick until No. 29, which is too bad, because his sophisticated game could be a perfect fit in their operation. Douglas-Roberts is not an elite athlete, but he understands how to use his body to manufacture scoring opportunities and excels under pressure.

18. Washington Wizards: Donte Green, 6-10, 225, SF, Syracuse. For somebody who's jetting to the league on the basis of his perimeter shooting skill, Green hit only 34.5 percent of his college threes. He isn't tough, isn't strong, doesn't make great decisions and didn't learn to defend man-to-man because he played in the SU zone. He is a pure potential pick.

19. Cleveland Cavaliers: Joe Alexander, 6-8, 230, SF, West Virginia. The pros love his athleticism, his mid-range game and his uncanny knack for scoring. But he has not always embraced the game. Teams considering Alexander will have to decide whether he'll work to improve. If he wants it badly enough, Alexander could become an exceptional choice.

20. Denver Nuggets: Robin Lopez, 7-0, 255, C, Stanford. He's in the draft too soon, but he's a true center who can move and block shots.

21. New Jersey Nets: Jason Thompson, 6-11, 250, PF, Rider. So what if he played for a mid-major? So did Derek Fisher. Even if Thompson does not become a star, he will be the kind of reliable frontcourt player teams are fighting for a dozen years into his career.

22. Orlando Magic: Brandon Rush, 6-7, 210, SG, Kansas. He's not as good a defender as some think, and not the scorer he could be. Rush might frustrate the team that picks him.

23. Utah Jazz: Roy Hibbert, 7-2, 278, C, Georgetown. NBA types keep using the word "backup" to describe Hibbert, but there aren't many starters in the league with his size and skill. He is neither fast nor quick, but he has terrific low-post moves and will rank with the league's best-passing centers. It'd be nice if he always played with confidence.

24. Seattle SuperSonics: Mario Chalmers, 6-1, 190, PG, Kansas. Chalmers will be a top-flight defender against the ball. His length allows him to play bigger than 6-1, and he is great at both stealing the ball and stopping its movement. He will have a long way to go as a playmaker, but he obviously knows how to hit a big shot.

25. Houston Rockets: Kosta Koufos, 7-0, 265, C, Ohio State. He has more and better perimeter skills than perhaps any 7-footer produced by an American high school, but he's not quick enough to be an NBA forward and thus will need to defend big men. Koufos does not care for contact. He is too easily bumped off inside scoring moves.

26. San Antonio Spurs: Alexis Ajinca, 7-1, 225, PF/C, Hyeres-Toulon, France. Ajinca has rare length and athleticism for a player his size, but there's a danger his appeal is rooted in his limited exposure to the physicality he'd see regularly in the American game.

27. New Orleans Hornets: Courtney Lee, 6-5, 200, SG, Western Kentucky. He occasionally struggled in big games, but that changed during WKU's Sweet 16 run. His body is better than his game.

28. Memphis Grizzlies: J.J. Hickson, 6-9, 242, PF, N.C. State. He made chemistry difficult with the Pack, but he's too talented for 30 teams to pass.

29. Detroit Pistons: Kyle Weaver, 6-6, 201, PG, Washington State. A big-time defender who can play two or three positions, Weaver will win a draft position in workouts.

30. Boston Celtics: DeVon Hardin, 6-11, 250, C, California. The Celts could use another wide body in the middle.



Read more: http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2008-05-20/nba-mock-draft-bulls-need-rose-more-beasley#ixzz16knTkqqs

Dr. Awesome
11-30-2010, 04:13 AM
I remember saying Westbrook will be the second best player in the draft behind Rose. Of course, I thought Kevin Love would bust too...

Hibbert
12-01-2010, 02:32 PM
Austin Freeman - Senior PG/SG Georgetown
Played with Roy and they are still close. Shoots 6.3 3FG's a game shooting 568% which is ridiculous. Last year shot 444% from downtown and 525% FG's along with 856% FT's. This guy can shoot and hardly ever turns the ball over. He is listed as 6Ft3In but looks much bigger due to his size as he weighs 230LBS. This guy is NBA ready with an NBA body, played in the Princeton offense set and can shoot the lights out.

The jury is still out on his defense. He has the ability and size to be a lockdown defender and sometimes dominates but most of the time is concentrated on his offense. That still can change. As of now Im amazed to see that he is projected as a late 2nd Rd pick but that will change once the draft is closer. Unlike most people/"scouts" on here I think this draft is loaded with talent up and down. This draft will surprise you.

90'sNBARocked
12-01-2010, 02:40 PM
Rush might frustrate the team that picks him.


LMAO, understatment of the year

BringJackBack
12-01-2010, 02:42 PM
Austin Freeman is a beast. He would be a very good 2nd round pickup IMO. He isn't tall, but he has a big body ala Eric Gordon (without the quickness mind you), and he has a pretty shot. He just scores. LaceDarius Dunn is a big time 2nd round prospect IMO as well. He can create his own shot and he's long, which will get you far as a 2nd round pick.

I am kind of hoping for Shelvin Mack, Demetri Mcamey, or especially Kemba Walker w/ our first round pick. Granted, I have not watched much college ball at all, so I don't know hardly any freshmen prospects. I am starting to like Singler, but he just doesn't seem like much of a good prospect like Roy Hibbert or Paul George. Kind of a low ceiling guy.

However, we need a 3rd big, and at our position, no one really exists outside of Marcus Morris who I don't really like. We could trade up, down, or out of the draft to pick a 3rd big up. Heck, we have enough capspace to do a sign & trade w/ Cleveland or something and give them our first round pick and they hand over Varejao.

Since86
12-01-2010, 02:50 PM
Right now, the only PG that should be looked at by the Pacers is Kyrie Irving. Everything else is a lateral move, at best, and a wasted pick unless Bird thinks he can flip it for another need(s) like he did with Bayless.

I seriously doubt Irving will be anywhere near where the Pacers will select, if he even decides to come out which I don't see happening considering Coach K's stance on recruiting players who want to leave after one year and the CBA fiasco.

BringJackBack
12-01-2010, 02:58 PM
Yes Kyrie is a very nice player, but considering that we are going to have a lower draft pick, he's going to get picked before we can get our hands on him.

Hicks
12-01-2010, 03:36 PM
*Is wondering if the posters on this page even realize how old this thread is*

Since86
12-01-2010, 03:38 PM
Fully aware. I thought TJ's first response was pretty awesome.

Trader Joe
12-01-2010, 03:39 PM
LOL I just thought bringing up this thread would be interesting..


So Joe... how does that concrete taste?

Also I had a few threads talking about how I liked Westbrook as well as Hibbs .. and everyone turned their collective noses up..

Hibbert has completely changed his body since he came out of Georgetown and he deserves an infinite amount of praise for that.

Shall I go around digging up two year old threads and point to every time someone on this board has been wrong? That sounds like it would be a good use of time.

Trader Joe
12-01-2010, 03:42 PM
I also like how I'm the one that was called out, even though the overwhelming opinion in the thread was that Hibbert was too slow to succeed.

Trader Joe
12-01-2010, 03:45 PM
lol .. totally wasn't about that.. I was actually looking up my thoughts pre-draft on Westbrook and come across this, and i found it funny as heck , that he said he'd jump off of the top of Conseco...

Also, that comment was made in reference to drafting Hibbert at the 11th pick...which we did not do.

But sure, everyone enjoy a laugh at my expense, I'll enjoy one of the tastiest dishes of crow I've ever been served, and Roy is the one that can take the credit for it by completely changing his body type in a very impressive way.

Also, the way some of you guys fawn all over yourselves is hilarious. Do you think there are NBA GMs reading this board looking to hire talent scouts?

"I said this guy would be great...

And said that guy would be horrible...

And I was right...

And I said this guy would be horrible, but I also gave him SOME credit, so since he's been good I wasn't totally wrong..."

cdash
12-01-2010, 03:49 PM
I also like how I'm the one that was called out, even though the overwhelming opinion in the thread was that Hibbert was too slow to succeed.

:laugh:

I'll call myself out. I championed against Hibbert big time leading up to that draft. Just not on here, as I wasn't a member yet. I thought he was too slow and too poor of a rebounder to be any good in the NBA. It's amazing what an A+ work ethic and a drive to succeed can do for someone.

Since86
12-01-2010, 04:00 PM
I think you're taking it way to personal. As the great Garth Brooks says "Life is a dance, turn as you go."

I don't think it's funny that you were wrong. I think it's funny in how players can develop or that their skills are better suited for different styles of basketball. Especially when said play turns out not only to be better than what most thought he'd be, but turn into one of the most popular players on the team.

The JO/Bayless/Roy/Rush/McRoberts swap keeps looking better and better and better.

Trader Joe
12-01-2010, 04:01 PM
Hey I thanked your post, I said the crow was tasty, and my comments are always awesome.

It's been a long day at work as well.

I will now add this addendum to all my posts about prospects I don't like:

"This comment is null and void and unable to be attributed to said poster known as "Trader Joe" if or when said player referenced in this comment goes through a body changing MMA/Kick boxing training regiment." ;)

Lance George
12-01-2010, 04:02 PM
Roy Hibbert is gonna be a stud. He's 7'2" with just a fantastic skill-level. I could see a team like us drafting him, grooming him for two seasons, building him into a 16/10/3/2 type of guy and a potential All-Star center. I could even see him eventually becoming a 20 & 10 guy in time. He'd help turn this struggling franchise around, that's for sure.

I hate to toot my own horn, but I nailed this one.

owl
12-01-2010, 04:32 PM
It is so hard to evaluate a players determination and drive. Roy has taken his talents and
MADE himself into a future star.

Eleazar
12-01-2010, 05:06 PM
:laugh:

I'll call myself out. I championed against Hibbert big time leading up to that draft. Just not on here, as I wasn't a member yet. I thought he was too slow and too poor of a rebounder to be any good in the NBA. It's amazing what an A+ work ethic and a drive to succeed can do for someone.

I am in the same boat as you. I was very skeptical of his ability to translate over to the NBA. At the same time I think drafting him around the 17th pick I thought seemed like a good spot to pick him especially considering he would have been a top 10 maybe top 5 pick the previous draft and it was our second pick of the draft. That is one thing that people seem to forget about Hibbert is that he was projected to be one of the top picks if he would have came out a year prior to when he did.

Scot Pollard
12-01-2010, 05:09 PM
im so freakin happy with our selections/trades in 2008

who wouldve thought roy who went from a weak inexperienced center that got pushed around in his first season to be a top nba center who blocks nearly every shot in the paint

also brandon is turning into the player we wanted him to be

woah its weird to see seattle supersonics i thought they were the oklahoma city thunder in 2008 though

BringJackBack
12-01-2010, 05:11 PM
Who usually starts a scouting prospect thread? Does anyone mind if I make one?

cdash
12-01-2010, 05:14 PM
Who usually starts a scouting prospect thread? Does anyone mind if I make one?

Go for it.

It'll be fun this year, seeing as how we aren't playing for a top pick (at the moment).

Scot Pollard
12-01-2010, 05:21 PM
indiana pacers trade jermaine oneal and the draft rights to nathan jawai to the toronto raptors for tj ford (decent backup), rasho nesterovic (who cares), maceo baston (who really cares), and the draft rights to roy hibbert :carrot:

draft night deal: pacers trade ike diogu and the draft rights to jerryd bayless to the portland trail blazers for jarrett jack (just a rental), the draft rights to brandon rush and josh mcroberts who has been thrown into the deal :pepper:

GO :xpacers:!

BringJackBack
12-01-2010, 05:28 PM
It's ironic that Josh McRoberts, who was a throw in, might be the best player out of the whole trade.

Scot Pollard
12-01-2010, 05:35 PM
It's ironic that Josh McRoberts, who was a throw in, might be the best player out of the whole trade.

brandon and his values are both great

Justin Tyme
12-01-2010, 07:07 PM
I also like how I'm the one that was called out, even though the overwhelming opinion in the thread was that Hibbert was too slow to succeed.


Hibby's 1st season I kept saying he was slower than molassas. He started out being a terrible FT shooter too. How things can change... for the best!! Tremendous improvement over 3 years. I just wish Rush had improved as much as Hibby has!

Justin Tyme
12-01-2010, 07:13 PM
It's amazing what an A+ work ethic and a drive to succeed can do for someone.


I just wish Rush had the same!

pacer4ever
12-01-2010, 07:15 PM
I just wish Rush had the same!

Thats a pretty ignorant statement. Rush has a pretty damm good work ethic.

Justin Tyme
12-01-2010, 07:31 PM
Thats a pretty ignorant statement. Rush has a pretty damm good work ethic.


You think Rush work ethic and motovation has been as good as Hibby's has? I don't see it. Rush is a laidback type person that to me DOES NOT have the work ethic that Roy has had since being a Pacer. There is a reason Hibby has improved the volumes he has and Rush hasn't. I'm not saying Rush's work ethic is terrible, but not to the extreme as Hibby's. If that is ingnorant by your standards, so be it. I'll stand by my comment.

pacer4ever
12-01-2010, 07:35 PM
You think Rush work ethic and motovation has been as good as Hibby's has? I don't see it. Rush is a laidback type person that to me DOES NOT have the work ethic that Roy has had since being a Pacer. There is a reason Hibby has improved the volumes he has and Rush hasn't. I'm not saying Rush's work ethic is terrible, but not to the extreme as Hibby's. If that is ingnorant by your standards, so be it. I'll stand by my comment.

he was working out really hard all summer but it doesnt get publized like hibberts working out does.

Your comment was too bad rush doesnt have that type of work ethic. Which isnt a fact. Have u been to workouts during the offseason??? so enlightin me how do u know is work ethic isnt great???

Justin Tyme
12-01-2010, 07:48 PM
he was working out really hard all summer but it doesnt get publized like hibberts working out does.

Your comment was too bad rush doesnt have that type of work ethic. Which isnt a fact. Have u been to workouts during the offseason??? so enlightin me how do u know is work ethic isnt great???


So you are saying Rush has an A+ work ethic, and the same drive to succeed as Hibbert? If so, why hasn't Rush achieved the same progress in elevating his game as Hibbert? Hibbert's progress as a player is far more elevated than Rush's. I haven't seen anything about Rush being one of the top players at his position this season, or Rush's name linked to Allstar status, have you?

AGAIN, I STAND BY MY ORIGINAL COMMENT.

MyFavMartin
12-01-2010, 10:30 PM
JaJuan Johnson of Purdue showed a good game tonight against VT on the road in the ACC/Big 10 Challenge. He can score and shoot. Reminds me of a poor man's Rashard Lewis. NBAdraft.net has him mocked in the middle of the 2nd round, which I think is way too low, but if he's there, he'd be a steal for the Pacers.

pujhutt50
12-01-2010, 11:42 PM
I think JaJuan would be a good four for us. He has some real good length and is a good defensive player, still a little weak against bigger guys but he is able to use his length effectively. He has a decent back to the basket game but he has good shooting range and can spread out to give Hibbert space. He's also a good guy and has four years of college experience. I think he would fit well with the team.

Heisenberg
12-02-2010, 07:35 PM
Any thoughts on Baylor's Quincy Acy? Him, Chris Singleton from FSU, and the Morris boys from Kansas are the guys I'm most interested in right now.

MyFavMartin
12-03-2010, 01:17 PM
Marcus Morris is listed as 6'8" by Kansas with short arms. Doesn't look to have the athleticism and booty like Millsap or Chuck that would allow him to do well in the NBA. I previously mentioned him, but with this new info, I think his stock will drop and I'd pass. Might be a good bench guy, but with our 1st rounder, I'd prefer a guy that projects at starting.