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View Full Version : Chad Ford's first mock draft: Pacers taking Augustin



Trader Joe
05-20-2008, 09:09 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=MockDraft-080520

He has Westbrook going off the board at 7 to the Clippers.

CableKC
05-20-2008, 09:15 PM
Great...the worst case scenario happens....Love, Westbrook and Gordon ( yes, I said it...Gordon ) are off the board.

I guess I can live with Augustin....but I just keep on seeing stronger PGs continually post up our PG rotation of Diener and Augustin.

Shade
05-20-2008, 09:15 PM
I'd be content with DJ. I'm not sure it'll happen, though. The Pacers rarely agree with the "experts." I have a feeling we'll take Jordan.

Westbrook at #7 is a stretch. They should take Gordon there.

Coop
05-20-2008, 09:17 PM
Gordon reunited with Sampson in Milwaukee eh? That would be interesting.

himikey
05-20-2008, 09:17 PM
Jerryd Bayless is listed as a 6'3" PF. He is a little undersized I think...

Hicks
05-20-2008, 09:22 PM
Going by DJ's profile on ESPN.com, I'd be happy to have him.

Doddage
05-20-2008, 09:30 PM
Gordon reunited with Sampson in Milwaukee eh? That would be interesting.
Hey, maybe that way he'll regain motivation and focus, and thus make the most of his potential.

d_c
05-20-2008, 09:34 PM
Interesting.

Lots of Warrior fans are intrigued by the idea of DeAndre Jordan falling all the way down to #14. It's certainly possible. I don't see the Bucks, Kings, Clips or Blazers taking him.

I could, however, see a situation where the Pacers (you do need a center, right?) or Nets role the dice on him.

Anthem
05-20-2008, 09:34 PM
Hard to argue with his top 10. If that's the way it shakes out, Augustin makes sense at 11.

But holy cow, look at the rest of the draft. CDR slips all the way to #29? Surely we could get a pick before that...

Anthem
05-20-2008, 09:35 PM
I could, however, see a situation where the Pacers (you do need a center, right?) or Nets role the dice on him.
I'd love for the Nets to get him.

d_c
05-20-2008, 09:40 PM
I'd love for the Nets to get him.

It's possible. They just already have Sean Williams, Krstic and Boone. Do they want another project big?

Jordan is talented and the Pacers do need a center. Those are the reasons I'd suspect him to be picked at #11, though there are PLENTY of reasons for him not to be.

Anthem
05-20-2008, 09:44 PM
It's possible. They just already have Sean Williams, Krstic and Boone. Do they want another project big?

Jordan is talented and the Pacers do need a center. Those are the reasons I'd suspect him to be picked at #11, though there are PLENTY of reasons for him not to be.
I think it's pretty well documented that I'm not DJ's biggest fan. But if we take Jordan over Augustin, I'll be pissed.

Rajah Brown
05-20-2008, 09:47 PM
I have a hard time believing Bird will take any kid like Jordan
with a questionable motor/work ethic. As screwed up as the
Pacers are, they can't afford to take the chance of this 1st rounder
busting.

himikey
05-20-2008, 10:01 PM
I have a hard time believing Bird will take any kid like Jordan
with a questionable motor/work ethic. As screwed up as the
Pacers are, they can't afford to take the chance of this 1st rounder
busting.

Agreed. The Pacers are at the point where they need to take personal character into consideration. If Jordan is tagged as lazy while auditioning for his NBA job in college, it will only get worse once he has his guaranteed rookie contract in hand.

eldubious
05-20-2008, 10:01 PM
Arthur and Jordan will creep into the top 11, I don't think Augustine and Westbrook will both be in the top 11.

owl
05-20-2008, 10:02 PM
DJ does nothing for the defense. So that leaves bigs like McGee, Arthur, Hibbert? who is less of a risk than Jordan. At least some of these guys provide interior defense and rebounding.
I sure hope the Pacers are looking past the end of their nose.

JayRedd
05-20-2008, 10:02 PM
I'd be shocked if we don't take little man.

PG. Good shooter. Fan favorite. Great character.

A no-brainer if he's available. I don't particularly like him, but it's still a no-brainer. Then again, I don't particularly like many of these guys after about #8 aside from CDR, Rush and Greene. Then again again, I didn't watch half as much college ball as I usually do this year.

Anthem
05-20-2008, 10:13 PM
Then again, I don't particularly like many of these guys after about #8 aside from CDR, Rush and Greene.
CDR at #29 is insane.

JayRedd
05-20-2008, 10:15 PM
Yeah...I like them in that order.

Doddage
05-20-2008, 10:16 PM
Yeah, and going to the Pistons, ugh

Aw Heck
05-20-2008, 10:17 PM
NBAdraft.net also has a mock draft up.

http://nbadraft.net/

They have Rose going #1, the Pacers taking Westbrook, and CD-R going to Orlando at #22.

So, I think Anthem would find that slightly less insane.

Shade
05-20-2008, 10:20 PM
I think CD-R is overrated here. Seems to fit that he would be projected to go to the Pistons.

We should be able to make a deal for another first-rounder though, shouldn't we? I could see some interest in Ike And Quis for late firsts.

Any word on if Chalmers is coming out? Where is DJ White projected to go these days? I still think it'd be cool if we came out of this draft with a pair of DJs. :D

Rajah Brown
05-20-2008, 10:28 PM
The slightly tempting thing about Jordan is that if he gets his head
screwed on right and works hard at his game, 5 years from now,
he's probably the 3rd best player in this draft. It's too bad the
Pacers aren't in a better positon to take that kind of risk in hopes
of the upside paying off. Other than a PG who can play at both ends,
his size and athletic explosivness up front is the one thing this
team (sans a healthy J.O. anyway) really needs.

Naptown_Seth
05-21-2008, 12:05 AM
At least Chad's got Bill Walker in the first round. I can't believe how many have him projected into the 2nd. I watched mostly for Beas and Bill made an impression. He is clearly physical enough for the NBA and really KSt was all about just that pair of players, they rarely went without at least one on the court as the offensive focus.

If it's Arthur or DJ I go with Arthur. Strong offensive moves in the post, goes either way, and can pass from the post as well. Not a great defender, but he's already ahead of Ike right now I think.

The talent in the 20's sure makes a trade back into the first seem nice. And Weaver out into round 2 also makes a trade up there interesting. He's make a nice 8th-9th guy that would sort of be a McKey for the perimeter - defensive specialist with enough offense to stay on the floor.


Also since when did DJ become 6'? Sure doesn't look it.

CableKC
05-21-2008, 12:11 AM
DJ does nothing for the defense. So that leaves bigs like McGee, Arthur, Hibbert? who is less of a risk than Jordan. At least some of these guys provide interior defense and rebounding.
I sure hope the Pacers are looking past the end of their nose.
I would consider Spreights over McGee, Hibbert and (maybe) Arthur. He's said to be NBA-Ready....we need to be sure that we get a guy that can provide the quickest and most impact on the team....I don't want to gamble....cuz we can't afford to roll snake-eyes on any player that we draft.

rexnom
05-21-2008, 03:34 AM
If this happens, and we offer Milwaukee Ike and Greene or Alexander (who we pick at 11) for EJ, would that just make too much sense?

Eindar
05-21-2008, 04:04 AM
Don't be surprised if we take a runner on McGee. Unless someone falls, a la Danny, to #11, McGee is a guy who fits what O'Brien wants and has Tremendous Upside Potential. :)

I like Augustin, we definitely need a PG, but we also need a C who can shoot, dribble, pass, and is an incredible athlete.

d_c
05-21-2008, 04:08 AM
If this happens, and we offer Milwaukee Ike and Greene or Alexander (who we pick at 11) for EJ, would that just make too much sense?

If Alexander or Greene is who they like, they'll gladly trade down and swap picks with you.

If Eric Gordon is the guy they like, then they probably won't mess around. They'll just take him and keep him.

Mourning
05-21-2008, 05:17 AM
I REALLY would like us to trade up to pick 6-8. IF Ike and our #11 pick are enough for that then I'm all for it, but I don't see that happenning, while Shawne and our #11 is a little too risky and too much again (IMHO). Maybe Ike #11 and a future second rounder for the Bucks pick? I dunno.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Will Galen
05-21-2008, 06:53 AM
I REALLY would like us to trade up to pick 6-8. IF Ike and our #11 pick are enough for that then I'm all for it, but I don't see that happenning, while Shawne and our #11 is a little too risky and too much again (IMHO). Maybe Ike #11 and a future second rounder for the Bucks pick? I dunno.

Unless it's a smoke screen Larry seems to think we will get a pretty good player with the 11th pick. He's twice now said the following;

"My main concern was not to go backward," Bird said by telephone Tuesday from Secaucus, N.J., where the lottery was conducted in the NBA Entertainment studios. "We feel like the No. 11 pick is going to be a pretty good one and we're happy about that.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/lottery_080520.html

I'm wondering who those 11 are?

DisplacedKnick
05-21-2008, 07:17 AM
IMO picking 11 doesn't do you a lot of good. There are quite a few swingmen types who'll be available there which you have a bunch of and I'm not sold on Augustin. I like him but I just don't think his ceiling's that high. Of course I could be wrong.

I'd look at dealing the pick to either get up to 6-8 or drop back to about 20. I happen to think CDR will be a very good NBA SG - maybe not an all-star every year but a 15-18 point guy who defends. He has to work on his shot but he can do that.

Since 11 doesn't give you a long-term PG solution or a top C/PF, trade it and take a solid SG.

And I HATE the Bulls getting the top pick. They were one of Isiah's regular trading partners - isn't that luck enough?

And after Mayo, I don't get excited about the early picks. Unlike you, we could use a good swingman type. I'd be willing to make a Zach and the 6 for JO and the 11 pick if Mayo's off the board.

Mayo's a bit of a gamble for us because of the recent issues that have popped up. But I don't consider taking some extra cash at 15-18 quite on the level with a lot of other problems. From a talent persepctive, if he's there at 6 we almost have to take him. I think it drops off quick after that.

Don't like Lopez at 3 in Ford's draft. I'm not sold that he's anything special.

Speed
05-21-2008, 07:38 AM
At least Chad's got Bill Walker in the first round. I can't believe how many have him projected into the 2nd. I watched mostly for Beas and Bill made an impression. He is clearly physical enough for the NBA and really KSt was all about just that pair of players, they rarely went without at least one on the court as the offensive focus.

Walker's had two ACLs I think, I could be wrong.

Speed
05-21-2008, 07:41 AM
I'm surprised that no one is talking about the availability of Henrick or Ben Gordan if the Bulls take Rose, which I think they should.

Would you trade the #11 for either of them, if you thought Augustine was who you'd pick at 11. Wouldn't the Bulls do it??

Doddage
05-21-2008, 07:56 AM
I'm really pushing for the Pacers to make a trade with the Bulls. The one that I've come up that makes a lot of sense for both teams (provided they pick Rose, which is likely) is JO for Kirk Hinrich, Larry Hughes, and one of Tyrus Thomas or Thabo Sefolosha. Ike can be thrown in if necessary.

For us, it would fill two holes in our starting lineup with Hinrich and Hughes. Sure Hughes sucks and takes too many jumpers, but his presence on defense would be valuable to us. If he's not producing for us or continues to be injury-plagued, he expires in 2010, the same year as JO so it wouldn't make much of a difference. Hinrich would finally give us a legit, defensive point guard that Jim has talked before. We wouldn't have to bother re-signing Flip either. Either of Thabo or Tyrus would give us a nice bench spark and youth to develop for our future. A corresponding lineup would be as follows:

Hinrich/Diener
Hughes/Thabo?/Rush?
Granger/Dunleavy/Graham
Murphy/Tyrus?
Foster/Center pickup

That leaves us one defensive liability in Murphy, which I can live with, especially if we have Tyrus coming off the bench. This trade, most importantly, enables us to bring Dunleavy off the bench for a nice scoring punch that could very well be a candidate for Sixth Man of the Year. It truly makes us a deeper team, all around.

In Chicago's perspective, they need to fix their guard logjam if they select Rose. It makes perfect sense to pick up a JO since he finally would give them their post and shot-blocking presence (combined with Noah is nice defensively up front) that can hit the occasional mid-range jumper, which is very conducive to a Rose-run offense. More important, getting rid of Hinrich and Hughes would put them in position to re-sign Gordon and Deng. This would give them a lineup of:

Rose/Duhon
Gordon/Thabo?
Deng/Nocioni
JO/Tyrus?/Nocioni
Noah/Gray

Which is an immediate contender in the Eastern Conference with the likes of Boston and Detroit. The trade also gives them flexibility if JO doesn't pan out for them, since he expires in 2010 and would give them the extra cap room.

Of course, this all hinges on Chicago picking Rose. If they pick Beasley, then you can throw this out the window.

Speed
05-21-2008, 08:01 AM
And you keep your 11 pick, in that scenario. I'd agree the Bulls, other than being in the Central division, are a good match as a trading partner.

I'll call it now though, I think Larry will pick at 11 and do nothing else of significance... but we have all summer to debate that. :)

rexnom
05-21-2008, 08:32 AM
I love me some Walker and Weaver late.

Trader Joe
05-21-2008, 08:45 AM
I'm still not convinced that Gordon won't drop to us.

Also either nbadraft.net or draftexpress has us getting Walker in the second round. That would be a major coup.

Speed
05-21-2008, 08:45 AM
I love me some Walker and Weaver late.

I'd like to see them trade back in to get Weaver, he's maybe an answer as a defensive minded point guard.

BPump33
05-21-2008, 09:09 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8156236?MSNHPHMA
by ARAN SMITH/NBADraft.Net, Special to FOXSports.com


Has anyone else heard anything in particular about Jeff?

11. Pacers Russell Westbrook SG 6-4 187 UCLA Sophomore

With the success of Monta Ellis and Gilbert Arenas, the combo position has never been more en vogue. The Pacers are in need of athleticism and Westbrook is athleticism personified. This might be high for Westbrook, but he should really help his cause in workouts, and was held back to a degree by the conservative UCLA system. The Pacers could also look to go big (Kevin Love?) as they're likely to let go of Jeff Foster this summer.

Rajah Brown
05-21-2008, 09:15 AM
USF-

Nope. But on a 'bang for the buck' basis, he's probably the Pacers
second most attractive asset after Granger. He'd be a nice fit on
a contending team as a veteran big who hustles and can play
some at both PF and C.

BPump33
05-21-2008, 09:19 AM
USF-

Nope. But on a 'bang for the buck' basis, he's probably the Pacers
second most attractive asset after Granger. He'd be a nice fit on
a contending team as a veteran big who hustles and can play
some at both PF and C.

Yeah, I completely understand his value. I just wasn't sure if anyone had more than that. Thanks.

Kegboy
05-21-2008, 09:51 AM
Hard to argue with his top 10. If that's the way it shakes out, Augustin makes sense at 11.

But holy cow, look at the rest of the draft. CDR slips all the way to #29? Surely we could get a pick before that...

Exactly what I was thinking.

Kegboy
05-21-2008, 09:58 AM
As others have said, I'm not a huge fan of Augustin, but at worst I see him as a solid change-of-pace backup. I don't want us to take a chance on a guy like Jordan and perhaps end up with another Harrison.

Arthur, on the other hand, I don't think would be such a concern.

OakMoses
05-21-2008, 10:27 AM
Ford mentions that Minnesota is interested in Galinari at #3. He notes that he's a high-IQ guy who can play point forward and initiate the offense. I wonder if Dunleavy + #11 might not be enough to move up to #3...

The Bulls drafting Rose and a Hinrich + highly paid filler (Hughes, Nocioni) for JO trade was on my mind as soon as I stopped cursing about the Bulls being #1. Larry Hughes in O'Brien's offense would be an interesting nightmare. I wonder how long it would take him to get benched.

count55
05-21-2008, 10:32 AM
As others have said, I'm not a huge fan of Augustin, but at worst I see him as a solid change-of-pace backup. I don't want us to take a chance on a guy like Jordan and perhaps end up with another Harrison.

Arthur, on the other hand, I don't think would be such a concern.

Right there withya

Jonathan
05-21-2008, 10:43 AM
DJ Augustine does not fit into JOB system at all. He cannot shoot the ball from the outside worth a crap. He is small and will not be able to penetrate in the pros. He is not a great defender; Rose exposed him.

I would rather draft Mario Chalmers at 11 than Augustine.

Jonathan
05-21-2008, 10:44 AM
Ford mentions that Minnesota is interested in Galinari at #3. He notes that he's a high-IQ guy who can play point forward and initiate the offense. I wonder if Dunleavy + #11 might not be enough to move up to #3...

The Bulls drafting Rose and a Hinrich + highly paid filler (Hughes, Nocioni) for JO trade was on my mind as soon as I stopped cursing about the Bulls being #1. Larry Hughes in O'Brien's offense would be an interesting nightmare. I wonder how long it would take him to get benched.

Larry Hughes cannot be traded untill the deadline next year.

count55
05-21-2008, 10:48 AM
Larry Hughes cannot be traded untill the deadline next year.

Why do you think that? I can find no trade restrictions on Larry Hughes.

(JO, however, can't be traded until he waives his early termination option.)

Jonathan
05-21-2008, 10:57 AM
Why do you think that? I can find no trade restrictions on Larry Hughes.

(JO, however, can't be traded until he waives his early termination option.)

Your correct, I tried to do a trade involving Hughes and one of the websites said a player had to be on a team for x amount of days before you could ship him out. He has passed the limit.

Speed
05-21-2008, 11:10 AM
Larry Hughes cannot be traded untill the deadline next year.

Thank God, I have no use for him.

Manguera
05-21-2008, 11:34 AM
I would prefer Westbrook at #11 but wouldn't be upset if he's already gone and we got DJ. To me, the only thing DJ can do better than Westbrook right now is run the point, and I think Westbrook may be better at that than some people think.

I also think we should try to move any combination of Ike, Foster, Quis, Tins, and/or Dun to get another pick in the 15-25 range to get either Speights or R. Lopez.

DisplacedKnick
05-21-2008, 11:55 AM
I would prefer Westbrook at #11 but wouldn't be upset if he's already gone and we got DJ. To me, the only thing DJ can do better than Westbrook right now is run the point, and I think Westbrook may be better at that than some people think.


Augustin's a much better shooter, especially from outside.

I'm not really sold on either of them but I'm not sold on anyone projected to go from about 6-20. One reason I think the Pacers should look hard at trading either up or down. This is another draft that's loaded with wing players and SF's - folks like Greene, Alexander, Randolph (if we can't get Mayo he's my next pick for us) or Budinger are the players who might be available at 11 that I think have big upsides (could be busts too). You have plenty of SF's.

Trade down to about 20 and get CDR or figure a way to the top 5 or 6. I just don't see Westbrook or Augustin as being top quality NBA PG's.

Of course the other thing you could do is go for Jordan and see if he turns out to be anything - he's certainly an athlete. Maybe he can develop some skills.

rexnom
05-21-2008, 12:08 PM
Is Augustin just Travis Diener or his something more special?

d_c
05-21-2008, 12:11 PM
Is Augustin just Travis Diener or his something more special?

Augustin is better than Travis Diener.

Diener is a nice, hard nosed scrapper but he doesn't have a lot of talent. He's a decent backup on some teams and a 12th-15th man on a really good team with backcourt depth.

With Augustin, you're probably looking at a smaller Jameer Nelson with maybe a little more quickness and a similar overall impact.

Tom White
05-21-2008, 12:15 PM
I have a hard time believing Bird will take any kid like Jordan
with a questionable motor/work ethic. As screwed up as the
Pacers are, they can't afford to take the chance of this 1st rounder
busting.

...and that is exactly why Bird would probably pick him.

rexnom
05-21-2008, 12:18 PM
Augustin is better than Travis Diener.

Diener is a nice, hard nosed scrapper but he doesn't have a lot of talent. He's a decent backup on some teams and a 12th-15th man on a really good team with backcourt depth.

With Augustin, you're probably looking at a smaller Jameer Nelson with maybe a little more quickness and a similar overall impact.
I'd take that with this pick, praying that Obie's system does DJ a lot of good.

Speed
05-21-2008, 12:23 PM
Is Augustin just Travis Diener or his something more special?

I absolutely think he will be much better than Deiner. It's no knock on Travis, but Augustin will attack the basket and I believe he's much quicker than Travis. I also think he may be a leader by nature, again, not that Travis isn't, I think Travis is a great lockeroom guy, much better back up than I anticipated, but to be a leader you have to be willing to take charge and be good enough to back it up.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on Augustine, the first game he plays against Billups he's going to get pinned down in the low post.

I think things you can get from Augustine is one of the quickest guys in the league, immediately. 1.) I think he'll be able to pressure the ball for 94 feet and 2.) I think you'll get dribble penetration, which is something Deiner can't bring you with much intensity.

Now there's obviously a learning curve and the way the Pacers are constructed now, it won't solve any of the Dun/Granger both being small forwards, but it enhances team quickest exponentially.

It helps the team defense, instantly, that the bigs aren't covering for dribble/drives.

Augustine will push the ball, he's a natural point guard and will find guys who run, which encourages them to keep running.

Lets be honest the last real point guard for the Pacers was probably Mark Jackson (minus about 6 weeks of Tinsley's rookie year), Augustine will look like a Godsend to our tired eyes.

A minor thing is, I think I'd try to really keep Flip, if Augustine is your pick, he'd be exactly the right fit as one of the first Guards off the bench.

So ya I think Augustine has the same weakness as Travis, but I think the rest of it isn't really a comparison as far as level of play and what he could bring to the table.

Manguera
05-21-2008, 12:47 PM
Augustin's a much better shooter, especially from outside.

My bad. You are right. But I still think Westbrook would be the better choice because all I see is DJ getting posted up every night and not being able to get his shot off effectively over taller PGs. Neither will be a franchise PG in my opinion but at least Westbrook can defend the perimeter and also be an effective PG.

I would be happy with either one if that was who it came down to. But I prefer Westbrook.

I would be even happier if we traded for Hinrich and then traded down to get Speights or R. Lopez. :cool:

Jonathan
05-21-2008, 01:06 PM
I'd take that with this pick, praying that Obie's system does DJ a lot of good.

OBie said the defense starts at the PG spot. DJ Augustine is not a shut down defender. He lacks strength and will get muscled. He lacks heigth and will get posted up.
DJ Augustine is not a lights out shooter. He needs to work on his shot.

I feel the Pacers have a lot of holes in their line-up we lack quickness (DJ Helps) but the Pacers need to draft the best player available and if it happens to be a SF/SG fine. Do it and alter the roster via trades. The draft is not where you build your team to win now. Ecspecially, picking 11th overall.

Naptown_Seth
05-21-2008, 01:22 PM
Walker's had two ACLs I think, I could be wrong.
You might be right, I know the big story was him coming back from injury. Of course that was the same thing with Brandon Rush. Both looked great this year I thought. So do you ding them with the "it's bound to be a future problem" if it didn't bother them this year?

Honestly I don't know. If they were hobbled at times THIS year then I see the concern, but remember that Granger's knee had teams shying away from him too.



I also don't like DJ's defensive awareness. Like most PGs he loves to go after a slow passing lane but he also loves to lose his man when he's on the weakside. I think he got caught closing out way too often because he'd let his man roam and have a clear path for a return pass. He doesn't work to deny a guy floor position, and I don't mean posting I mean just coming off screens and stuff. He doesn't work them like Weaver or even Rush does, and Mayo of course.

With a guy like Rose you are going to have to make a clean cut, catch and shoot to get the shot off because he is right behind you going over screens. DJ will let you have that and then perhaps lightly deny the general drive by playing soft as he catches up. So now you can triple threat, pop even on a fumble and simply don't feel the pressure to execute.

As always this applies to "thus far". We all know guys might change their MO at the next level.

D-BONE
05-21-2008, 01:33 PM
You might be right, I know the big story was him coming back from injury. Of course that was the same thing with Brandon Rush. Both looked great this year I thought. So do you ding them with the "it's bound to be a future problem" if it didn't bother them this year?

Honestly I don't know. If they were hobbled at times THIS year then I see the concern, but remember that Granger's knee had teams shying away from him too.



I also don't like DJ's defensive awareness. Like most PGs he loves to go after a slow passing lane but he also loves to lose his man when he's on the weakside. I think he got caught closing out way too often because he'd let his man roam and have a clear path for a return pass. He doesn't work to deny a guy floor position, and I don't mean posting I mean just coming off screens and stuff. He doesn't work them like Weaver or even Rush does, and Mayo of course.

With a guy like Rose you are going to have to make a clean cut, catch and shoot to get the shot off because he is right behind you going over screens. DJ will let you have that and then perhaps lightly deny the general drive by playing soft as he catches up. So now you can triple threat, pop even on a fumble and simply don't feel the pressure to execute.

As always this applies to "thus far". We all know guys might change their MO at the next level.

I see you referencing Weaver a lot in discussions of defenders in the draft. Honestly, I'd be very happy if we could find a way to obtain him. That's a case where I think you consider calibrating where he'll go and see what might be done with the likes of Daniels, Ike, Shawne or some combination of guys of that approximate ilk.

pacergod2
05-21-2008, 02:01 PM
Here's the problem i see with the draft. The bulls are going to take beasley. so all this hinrich talk, me included, is not likely to happen. that leaves rose to miami. miami doesnt have a point guard and that leaves two less options for trading partners than what we are thinking (or hoping). give me a ridnour or watson for quis. realistically thats our best case scenario for a trade.

Slick Pinkham
05-21-2008, 02:11 PM
I would love to get Westbrook because we would have a defensively-capable PG for the first time since...since...since when?

when Heywoode Workman got hurt and later retired?

For sure he will have growing pains-- just about all non-superstar NBA PGs do--

but it would just be refreshing to not see the regular matador defense we have sadly become accustomed to at the PG position.

(scary though to think that a guard could be a 55% free throw shooter)

Speed
05-21-2008, 02:13 PM
when Heywoode Workman got hurt and later retired?




I was at that game.

DisplacedKnick
05-21-2008, 02:32 PM
DJ Augustine is not a lights out shooter. He needs to work on his shot.


Shooting is one of the best parts of his game. Shot selection's another thing but when you shoot 40% from 3 in college, shooting's not a weakness.

Jonathan
05-21-2008, 03:04 PM
Shooting is one of the best parts of his game. Shot selection's another thing but when you shoot 40% from 3 in college, shooting's not a weakness.

I disagree with your statement. I just feel the Pacers should take who they feel is the best player available at 11.
What I like about DJ Augustine
1. Quick
2. Mentality (tough, agressive, wants to win)
What I do not
1. Size (I know about Chris Paul but DJ is not CP3) This will lead to match up problems. I see Mario Chalmers being a better pro than DJ is all.

naptownmenace
05-21-2008, 03:09 PM
The slightly tempting thing about Jordan is that if he gets his head
screwed on right and works hard at his game, 5 years from now,
he's probably the 3rd best player in this draft. It's too bad the
Pacers aren't in a better positon to take that kind of risk in hopes
of the upside paying off. Other than a PG who can play at both ends,
his size and athletic explosivness up front is the one thing this
team (sans a healthy J.O. anyway) really needs.

He'll be gone before number #11, IMO. You can't teach size and he's a legit C who plays like a C. He's athletic, a decent passer, and defender. He'll be off the boards by the time the Pacers make their selection.

Westbrook is the guy they should select. If he's still available I don't think they'll pass up on another UCLA PG. UCLA guards tend to make the transition to the NBA fairly quickly.

Anthem
05-21-2008, 03:35 PM
He'll be gone before number #11, IMO. You can't teach size and he's a legit C who plays like a C. He's athletic, a decent passer, and defender. He'll be off the boards by the time the Pacers make their selection.
:pray:

gph
05-21-2008, 04:13 PM
If we are concerned about character, i wonder what issues are coming up with augustin.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=20697

John, Hanalei, HI: Puppy is "Gator". Who in this draft would be perfect for Kevin Martin's Kings?

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/sn2.gif David Thorpe: No-I never push the Gators on my kids. That's what my parents and brothers do. I thought Augustin initially, but I've heard scary reports about his character

Matt (Cohasset): Most draft analysts seem to go out of their way to praise Augustin's character. I think you are confusing him with someone else.

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/sn2.gif David Thorpe: No, I'm not. But a team will do far more research than I have. And character issues rarely effect anyone after the top 5.

Kegboy
05-21-2008, 04:48 PM
That's wierd. I'm certainly not going to take some ESPN hack's word on it, but it'd be just our luck to draft a "good character" kid, then have him pull a Tinsley.

Hicks
05-21-2008, 04:56 PM
...and that is exactly why Bird would probably pick him.

I see this mentality all the time. Where's the proof? Danny Granger at #17? Shawne Williams at #17? David Harrison at #29?

owl
05-21-2008, 05:27 PM
With DJ you are going to end up with a sum zero effect on the Pacers. What you gain in point skills you give up that much more on defense and getting him posted up. Forget DJ please.
At least with Westbrook you have a legit defender. That is the only guard that makes
any sense for the Pacers at this position in the draft.
If he is gone go for the best player available. That might be a shooting guard. Batum
or a big man. Jordan,McGee or Love.

PR07
05-21-2008, 07:18 PM
How come no one's mentioned Kosta Koufos? Big man who has a lot of offensive skills for a 19 year old. I think he could be a really good player if given time to develop and I like him a lot more than Jordan or McGee.

Merz
05-21-2008, 08:07 PM
I would love to get Westbrook because we would have a defensively-capable PG for the first time since...since...since when?

when Heywoode Workman got hurt and later retired?

For sure he will have growing pains-- just about all non-superstar NBA PGs do--

but it would just be refreshing to not see the regular matador defense we have sadly become accustomed to at the PG position.

(scary though to think that a guard could be a 55% free throw shooter)


Westbrook shot 55% his freshman season, he shot over 70% last season.

With Westbrook you know you'd be getting the perimeter defender you are looking for but he also has offensive potential that no one is mentioning.

I'd be fine with him playing lockdown perimeter D while adding about 10-12 points, but I think he also has the potential to be a 17 point 6 assist guy on offense after a season or two, and perhaps even better. Westbrook has a very high ceiling if he can develop some PG skills (I know thats easier said than done)

gph
05-21-2008, 08:13 PM
I think it is fairly likely that westbrook will be gone before 11th. Depends on what mock draft you believe, i guess.

Anthem
05-21-2008, 09:45 PM
If we are concerned about character, i wonder what issues are coming up with augustin.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=20697

John, Hanalei, HI: Puppy is "Gator". Who in this draft would be perfect for Kevin Martin's Kings?

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/sn2.gif David Thorpe: No-I never push the Gators on my kids. That's what my parents and brothers do. I thought Augustin initially, but I've heard scary reports about his character

Matt (Cohasset): Most draft analysts seem to go out of their way to praise Augustin's character. I think you are confusing him with someone else.

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/sn2.gif David Thorpe: No, I'm not. But a team will do far more research than I have. And character issues rarely effect anyone after the top 5.
Blah blah blah. Who's his team? He's gotta be pushing Augustin down to somebody.

I'm not even remotely worried about character based on an ESPN writer. If we hear it from other folks, I'll start considering it. But this kind of stuff is just stupid... an attempt by Thorpe to appear "in the know."