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idioteque
05-20-2008, 08:14 PM
Discuss the lotto as it goes on and the aftermath.

Looks like Larry is representing us again...he was bad enough luck last year (or maybe that was just the Harrington trade)...

Jared Jammer
05-20-2008, 08:17 PM
We have a whopping 2.9% chance of landing a top-3 pick.

Sollozzo
05-20-2008, 08:18 PM
Fred Hoiberg? LOL Didn't expect to see him there.

Swingman
05-20-2008, 08:18 PM
So you're telling me there's a chance? :) Stern owes us.

idioteque
05-20-2008, 08:18 PM
Maybe that lucky Lady's luck will wear off on Larry.

Doddage
05-20-2008, 08:19 PM
Whew Pacers at least didn't get 12th

Doddage
05-20-2008, 08:19 PM
But we got 11th

idioteque
05-20-2008, 08:20 PM
****, we're officially at 11. I guess that is what we expected but I would have loved to have Rose.

Bull are now in the top 3.

Swingman
05-20-2008, 08:20 PM
guess no luck this year :(

idioteque
05-20-2008, 08:22 PM
Durant doesn't look too happy about the Sonics getting pushed out of the top 3, it would have been nice for him to get to play with Beasley. You could tell that he was hoping for it.

And a team from our division gets a top 3 pick, great.

LoneGranger33
05-20-2008, 08:23 PM
Chicago friggin' Bulls.

Doddage
05-20-2008, 08:23 PM
Well, looks like the Central Division has just gotten more competitive.

Pacemaker
05-20-2008, 08:24 PM
This franchise its gonna have to help itself.

PacerGuy
05-20-2008, 08:24 PM
Chicago friggin' Bulls.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

idioteque
05-20-2008, 08:24 PM
THE BULLS...you have to be ****ing kidding me. **** **** **** **** I hate that franchise.

Hell, maybe it makes Hinrich expendable.

Doddage
05-20-2008, 08:24 PM
Holy ****... The Bulls

spreedom
05-20-2008, 08:25 PM
Bulls get the #1??

granger33
05-20-2008, 08:25 PM
Chicago no.1

Coop
05-20-2008, 08:25 PM
Should I even be surprised?

ajbry
05-20-2008, 08:25 PM
What the ****.

SoupIsGood
05-20-2008, 08:27 PM
Holy hell.

idioteque
05-20-2008, 08:28 PM
This puts Minnesota in a strange position. Is Bayless going to be a significant upgrade over Foye? Foye still has a lot of room to grow. Admittedly I don't know very much about Bayless at all. Does he have enough potential to be considered by most to be a lot better than Foye ever will?

Jared Jammer
05-20-2008, 08:29 PM
Bulls just got their big man scorer. The best to come into the league in over a decade.

We're left picking scraps at #11.

LoneGranger33
05-20-2008, 08:29 PM
********

Trader Joe
05-20-2008, 08:29 PM
LMAO Seriously? BTW I bet the Bulls end up trading that pick.

himikey
05-20-2008, 08:30 PM
Nice, this will be the Bulls 7th top 5 pick in 10 years. I kind of hate them.

Doddage
05-20-2008, 08:31 PM
LMAO Seriously? BTW I bet the Bulls end up trading that pick.
Highly doubtful.

Trader Joe
05-20-2008, 08:31 PM
Nice, this will be the Bulls 7th top 5 pick in 10 years. I kind of hate them.

Yeah and so far what has it gotten them?

Trader Joe
05-20-2008, 08:32 PM
Highly doubtful.

I bet they could put a package together for Amare and he will come in and have more of an immediate impact.

Doddage
05-20-2008, 08:33 PM
Wonder if they'd take JO and Granger for the #1, Larry Hughes, and whatever **** they want to add.

Coop
05-20-2008, 08:33 PM
Yeah and so far what has it gotten them?

Exactly. Have they not had enough chances?

GO!!!!!
05-20-2008, 08:35 PM
wow, diden't see that comming....

FA signings here we come... ohh no cap room you say... welll maybe next year we'll get a top 5 pick....

Kegboy
05-20-2008, 08:36 PM
Hell, maybe it makes Hinrich expendable.

That took all of 5 seconds.

Infinite MAN_force
05-20-2008, 08:37 PM
It figures the team one (or was it two?) spot(s) behind us wins the lottery.

Oneal07
05-20-2008, 08:38 PM
I don't understand how Bulls got #1 over Miami lol. That's Jokes

Infinite MAN_force
05-20-2008, 08:38 PM
THE BULLS...you have to be ****ing kidding me. **** **** **** **** I hate that franchise.

Hell, maybe it makes Hinrich expendable.

They will take Beasley for sure.

Merz
05-20-2008, 08:39 PM
So.........do they take Beasley and address their main problem, leaving Rose for Miami (thus rewarding their tank job)?

Or do they take Rose and move Hinrich for a big who can provide something in the post?

Kegboy
05-20-2008, 08:40 PM
I bet they could put a package together for Amare and he will come in and have more of an immediate impact.

Yeah, they could, but I don't see how they leave both Rose and Beasley on the board like that. The Chicago guy gave the freakin' number for tickets, they need to create enthusiasm about the team, not trade the pick away.

Plus, they need to hurry up and get a coach.

Trader Joe
05-20-2008, 08:41 PM
I think trading for Amare would generate plenty of enthusiasm...

PR07
05-20-2008, 08:43 PM
Has it crossed anyone else's mind that maybe if we had stayed at the #9 spot like we were for much of the second half, that we'd be looking at possibly the top spot? I mean that might be our ping pong ball instead of Chicago? That's what making a pathetic playoff push with Flip Murray and a hobbled JO gets you...a "meh" pick and no playoffs.

Sollozzo
05-20-2008, 08:44 PM
There is no way they are trading a pick.

Amare has about maxed out. Why trade the pick for him? Nothing against him, but you don't trade a number 1 pick for Amare Stoudemire.

The number 1 pick may not be as good as Amare Stoudemire, but then again they could be better. And that chance of them being better is why you trade the pick. You don't trade a number 1 pick for a guy going into his 7th season who is all but maxed out.

And I'm not sure Phoenix would do it either. I think they are still trying to go for one more run with Amare and Nash.

Oneal07
05-20-2008, 08:44 PM
Just cause we don't get Beasly or Rose, doesn't mean there's no good picks lol

Kegboy
05-20-2008, 08:45 PM
I think trading for Amare would generate plenty of enthusiasm...

Draft picks are always perfect, nobody has seen their flaws yet.

Of course, Paxson might be gun shy after his Aldridge for Thomas ****-up, so maybe he will look to trade the pick. (Damn that was a stupid move.)

rexnom
05-20-2008, 08:45 PM
Amare would be a great get for the Bulls. I just don't think the Suns would trade him for Beasley or Rose.

Trader Joe
05-20-2008, 08:47 PM
There is no way they are trading a pick.

Amare has about maxed out. Why trade the pick for him? Nothing against him, but you don't trade a number 1 pick for Amare Stoudemire.

The number 1 pick may not be as good as Amare Stoudemire, but then again they could be better. And that chance of them being better is why you trade the pick. You don't trade a number 1 pick for a guy going into his 7th season who is all but maxed out.

And I'm not sure Phoenix would do it either. I think they are still trying to go for one more run with Amare and Nash.

Then the Suns are fooling themselves. Zero chance that roster wins a championship. The window is closed and it is bolted shut.

Jared Jammer
05-20-2008, 08:48 PM
Has it crossed anyone else's mind that maybe if we had stayed at the #9 spot like we were for much of the second half, that we'd be looking at possibly the top spot? I mean that might be our ping pong ball instead of Chicago? That's what making a pathetic playoff push with Flip Murray and a hobbled JO gets you...a "meh" pick and no playoffs.

Yes, but we have Mike Dunleavy and Travis Deiner.

Be jealous, NBA.

rock747
05-20-2008, 08:48 PM
Wow. Derrick Rose is from Chicago. This is great for the NBA.

Sollozzo
05-20-2008, 08:53 PM
Then the Suns are fooling themselves. Zero chance that roster wins a championship. The window is closed and it is bolted shut.

Ok. Disregard the Suns. My point was more about Chicago.

There is no way Chicago trades that pick. You know how excited that fanbase has to be right now? I would think they would be more excited about a number 1 pick than Amare.

Amare is entering his 7th season. You know what you're going to get with him, and it's hard to believe he's going to get any better. He's a very good player, but he doesn't have Shaq or Duncan like dominance.

A 1 pick could be worse, as good as, or better than Amare. It's that possibility of him being better than Amare that makes you keep the pick. They could be the player of the era. Likely not, but you just don't know. It's all about building excitement, and it's that excitement that will make the Bulls that much more popular in Chicago.

Shade
05-20-2008, 08:53 PM
I am pissed off beyond words. If we had tanked like I wanted, we would have likely finished in Chicago's spot. :mad:

There is absolutely no way in hell the Bulls should have landed the #1 pick. This lottery format is horribly flawed.

Suaveness
05-20-2008, 08:56 PM
Woohoo! We're falling farther behind the rest of the Central!

Kegboy
05-20-2008, 08:57 PM
I am pissed off beyond words. If we had tanked like I wanted, we would have likely finished in Chicago's spot. :mad:

The lottery format is horribly flawed.

Eh, Karma would have kept us from getting it. Or our pick would get hit by a car.

http://www.8ball.co.uk/productimages/31842-2.jpg

rexnom
05-20-2008, 08:57 PM
Tough choice now for the Bulls.

Hicks
05-20-2008, 08:58 PM
I am pissed off beyond words. If we had tanked like I wanted, we would have likely finished in Chicago's spot. :mad:

There is absolutely no way in hell the Bulls should have landed the #1 pick. This lottery format is horribly flawed.

First of all, I refuse to applaud or promote tanking. Screw the Heat.

Second of all, this does in no way imply the system is faulty. It's a lottery. This is what a lottery allows for. If you want every team 4-14 to be locked in, then don't have a lottery. If they make the odds any smaller that's what they might as well go ahead and do. Just lotto the top 3, between the top 3, and be done with it.

Sollozzo
05-20-2008, 08:58 PM
I think the system is fine. It's exciting that team like Chicago (a bad team, but not the worst team) can get the pick. Or Orlando in 1993. You shouldn't reward the worst team with the best pick, IMO. I don't want to reward tanking.

I know people hate large market teams winning, but remember SOMEONE has to win it. Sometimes it's going to be a large market team, sometimes it's not. But the perception is, if a small market team wins then it's fair, if a large market team wins then it's BS. You know, it's possible for a large market team to win fairly-and I think that happened tonight.

I think 2003 is all the evidence that is needed to show it isn't fixed. You know the league would have killed to have had Lebron in Chicago or New York, but that's not how it ended up. He went to lowly Cleveland of all places. Does anyone honestly think the NBA wanted him there?

Shade
05-20-2008, 09:02 PM
First of all, I refuse to applaud or promote tanking. Screw the Heat.

That's all well and good, but at the end of the day, the Bulls have a much brighter future now than we do, and we only had a marginally better season than they did.

Hicks
05-20-2008, 09:06 PM
That's all well and good, but at the end of the day, the Bulls have a much brighter future now than we do, and we only had a marginally better season than they did.

It's rewarding misbehavior.

themayhem87
05-20-2008, 09:07 PM
bulls will take rose, hes from there, sell hinrich for something and begin to really start looking like an elite team from here on.

CableKC
05-20-2008, 09:07 PM
Funny...but no word from our resident Bulls fan.

Is Grace debating whether she should go back to being a Bulls fan now that they have the #1 pick?

J/K....:)

I can see the Bulls looking to see what offers they get for Hinrich or Gordon between now and the Draft. If they can move them for something decent....I can see them going after Rose. But if they don't get anything that would benefit them....maybe they will finally draft a Big Man like Beasley.

duke dynamite
05-20-2008, 09:15 PM
How did the Bull pull that off? You have to be kidding me...

The bright side is that this could potentially change the pre-determined path of the draft.

grace
05-20-2008, 09:24 PM
Funny...but no word from our resident Bulls fan.

Is Grace debating whether she should go back to being a Bulls fan now that they have the #1 pick?

J/K....:)

I can see the Bulls looking to see what offers they get for Hinrich or Gordon between now and the Draft. If they can move them for something decent....I can see them going after Rose. But if they don't get anything that would benefit them....maybe they will finally draft a Big Man like Beasley.

Honestly, I couldn't care less that the Bulls got the number one pick. Sure they're going to get a great draft pick, but it's still going to be a part of a team with a bunch of mentally weak cry babies. I'm sure right about now Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich are all having their own little conniption fits worrying about if they're going to get what they think the deserve or if they're going to be part of a trade.

On the other hand having the number one pick might make it easier for them to find a coach. Then again I'm sure Reinsdorf will find a way to continue to screw that up too.

himikey
05-20-2008, 09:30 PM
If the Bulls would smart, now they have trade bait (eg. Tyrus Thomas) to use to upgrade the SG position. But, since that is the smart thing to do, don't expect them to do that.

Anthem
05-20-2008, 09:36 PM
Interestingly, this draft shows why tanking's often NOT a good idea. Seattle had the second-worst record in the league, but missed out on a top-3 pick.

Yeah, Chicago won big. But other teams that had a lot more balls (ping-pong) didn't. It's a crap shoot, not a science.

Jared Jammer
05-20-2008, 09:47 PM
Interestingly, this draft shows why tanking's often NOT a good idea. Seattle had the second-worst record in the league, but missed out on a top-3 pick.

Yeah, Chicago won big. But other teams that had a lot more balls (ping-pong) didn't. It's a crap shoot, not a science.

I don't think Seattle was tanking. They're just rebuilding. And with that said, they still end up with the #4 pick, to pair up with Kevin Durant and Jeff Green.

Sadly, we remain stuck in mediocrity. Too good to land a top-5 pick and draft our next franchise player. Too lousy to ever do anything really noteworthy. I say give it one more season with J.O., and if that doesn't work out, it's time to officially rebuild.

eldubious
05-20-2008, 09:48 PM
The Bulls should take Beasley, trade Gordon for a big man, and sign Arenas. They would automatically be title contenders.

Now when the Bulls start taking offers for their guards, the Pacers should be first in line. Gordon and Smith for O'Neal would be a good deal for both teams.

Young
05-20-2008, 09:54 PM
I think the Bulls would be smart to take Derrick Rose. Chris Paul is proof of what a great point guard can do for your team. Maybe it's just me but I think Rose will be up there on the Chris Paul level here someday. Where Michael Beasley is likely a Carmelo Anthony type of player which isn't bad but i'd take Rose.

The Timberwolves are in a interesting spot. Do they like Foye and McCants enough and go with Brook Lopez or maybe they want Bayless, Mayo, or Gordon?

Will be interesting to see what Larry does here. Maybe it's just me but I don't think the prospects are 11 are that much better than say 18 or so. So maybe we try and move the pick. I would not argue with that depending on the deal of course.

Rajah Brown
05-20-2008, 10:00 PM
eldubious-

Smith ?

himikey
05-20-2008, 10:05 PM
The Bulls should take Beasley, trade Gordon for a big man, and sign Arenas. They would automatically be title contenders.

Now when the Bulls start taking offers for their guards, the Pacers should be first in line. Gordon and Smith for O'Neal would be a good deal for both teams.

You mean Sam Smith, the Jordan Rules guy? He'd be great writing for the Indy!

eldubious
05-20-2008, 10:15 PM
I thought Joe Smith was still on the team, Gooden would replace him to make salaries work.

Oneal07
05-20-2008, 10:29 PM
Woohoo! We're falling farther behind the rest of the Central!

I don't think so :rolleyes:

Major Cold
05-20-2008, 10:34 PM
I really don't see this as bad for Hinrich. I would think that Gooden and/or Tyrus would wonder where they are heading next

Suaveness
05-20-2008, 11:18 PM
I don't think so :rolleyes:


Reallyz? I think it's time to push the PANIC Button!

Eindar
05-20-2008, 11:22 PM
This lottery definitely made things a lot more interesting (for the Pacers). If the Bulls take Rose, that should mean that Hinrich is on the market. If they take Beasley, then the focus shifts to Miami. Rose is potentially a franchise player, but does he mesh well with D. Wade? You virtually never see a trade happen at this spot in the draft, but it makes me wonder, considering both Wade and Rose are guys who are going to need the ball in their hands to be effective.

Ideally, I'd like to see the Bulls draft Rose, and we trade them JO for Hinrich and Hughes.

PR07
05-20-2008, 11:29 PM
The Pacers really weren't tanking though when they had the #9 seed. We were simply getting outplayed, there was a stretch where we lost like every close game in the 4th quarter. It's when we thought we had to sign Flip Murray and "make a push" that we shot ourselves in the foot. It's the difference right now of having a franchise player or not.

I think the league should lottery all picks 1-14.

Not only did the Bulls of all people luck out, but the Heat got rewarded by deliberately tanking which it looks like we should've done. I mean I never believe in purposefully tanking, but there was no reason for the Pacers to push for a playoff spot when their fate was already signed, sealed, and delivered as being unable to do anything worthwhile.

I guess that's what integrity gets you and playing the game the right way though, a pat on the back and a second tier player.

Infinite MAN_force
05-21-2008, 12:26 AM
Ideally, I'd like to see the Bulls draft Rose, and we trade them JO for Hinrich and Hughes.


This is interesting. It would be smart for us to put this on the table. We keep our pick, we get a PG who can defend and a perimeter defender who can create his own shot, and maybe draft someone like speights to replace JO, who should be available. We could remake our roster in one swoop.

Hinrich/Diener
Hughes/Dunleavy
Granger/Dunleavy/Williams
Murphy/Foster
Speights/Foster

Speights probably would not start right away, but Im looking ahead. Point is, we get a lot better quick, our defense gets WAY better... Hinrich needs to start playing like he did before last year though. In this situation, I could even stomach taking the risk on Deandre Jordan instead of Speights. With Speights you might have a good playoff team, but if Jordan reached his potential as a dominant center (50/50) You could maybe turn that team into a title contender eventually.

CableKC
05-21-2008, 01:06 AM
I really don't see this as bad for Hinrich. I would think that Gooden and/or Tyrus would wonder where they are heading next
The Bulls have alot of options......they can draft Rose and put Hinrich or Gordon ( in a S&T ) on the Block for a Decent Big Man that they want.....or they can draft Beasley so that they can get the Big Man that they want while packaging Hughes and Tyrus to fill whatever other hole they have in their offense.

Cactus Jax
05-21-2008, 02:17 AM
Unless Rose has poor performances in the pre-draft workouts, he'll go #1 because they have a need for PG more than a big man, the league is now more geared for guards rather than big players like Beasley, and that Rose is a Chicago native, that stuff does matter.

The system is fine the way it is, just Chicago happened to be lucky.

Now we just need a Dunleavy for Hinrich trade, makes sense for both teams.

Eindar
05-21-2008, 03:31 AM
Unless Rose has poor performances in the pre-draft workouts, he'll go #1 because they have a need for PG more than a big man, the league is now more geared for guards rather than big players like Beasley, and that Rose is a Chicago native, that stuff does matter.

The system is fine the way it is, just Chicago happened to be lucky.

Now we just need a Dunleavy for Hinrich trade, makes sense for both teams.

Although I'd love to see it, Hinrich's value hasn't slipped that much, and also, they've got wing players, they need a post player. I'd say the only players we have that Chicago would be interested in would be JO and Ike, and JO's the only one that's bringing in Hinrich.

Trader Joe
05-21-2008, 08:38 AM
The Pacers really weren't tanking though when they had the #9 seed. We were simply getting outplayed, there was a stretch where we lost like every close game in the 4th quarter. It's when we thought we had to sign Flip Murray and "make a push" that we shot ourselves in the foot. It's the difference right now of having a franchise player or not.

I think the league should lottery all picks 1-14.

Not only did the Bulls of all people luck out, but the Heat got rewarded by deliberately tanking which it looks like we should've done. I mean I never believe in purposefully tanking, but there was no reason for the Pacers to push for a playoff spot when their fate was already signed, sealed, and delivered as being unable to do anything worthwhile.

I guess that's what integrity gets you and playing the game the right way though, a pat on the back and a second tier player.

Isn't that what a lot of people wanted?

Trader Joe
05-21-2008, 08:39 AM
Unless Rose has poor performances in the pre-draft workouts, he'll go #1 because they have a need for PG more than a big man, the league is now more geared for guards rather than big players like Beasley, and that Rose is a Chicago native, that stuff does matter.

The system is fine the way it is, just Chicago happened to be lucky.

Now we just need a Dunleavy for Hinrich trade, makes sense for both teams.

Then who plays the two for us?

Karmakillaz
05-21-2008, 08:44 AM
Then who plays the two for us?

Kareem Rush if he returns or our draft choice?

Or since Mike is a SF anyways perhaps Shawn Williams.

Trader Joe
05-21-2008, 08:49 AM
If Kareem Rush is our starting two I really don't see how trading Dun for Hinrich solves any of our problems. It just shifts our issue from the point guard position to the wing. Its like rearranging the lima beans and carrots on your plate as a kid, yeah the lima beans are in a different spot, but they still suck.

If you make a Dun for Hinrich type deal, then you have to try to make a move up in the draft to get Mayo or Gordon.

Tom White
05-21-2008, 09:17 AM
Wow. Derrick Rose is from Chicago. This is great for the NBA.

Yep. Kind of like how Cleveland won the lottery when native son Lebron was the first pick, huh?

Where is Oliver Stone when we need him?

Karmakillaz
05-21-2008, 09:48 AM
Yep. Kind of like how Cleveland won the lottery when native son Lebron was the first pick, huh?

Where is Oliver Stone when we need him?

And yet more proof Stern despises the Pacers since we did not win the lottery when Oden was comming out.

Hicks
05-21-2008, 09:53 AM
Isn't that what a lot of people wanted?

The integrity, but not the "pat on the back, and a second tier player". But it's accepted that that's the likely outcome, and it was.

Unclebuck
05-21-2008, 09:55 AM
If Rose is going to be as good as Paul, then the Bulls would be crazy not to take Rose.

Unclebuck
05-21-2008, 09:57 AM
And yet more proof Stern despises the Pacers since we did not win the lottery when Oden was comming out.

So Stern decides the lottery?

The Cavs the year they won the lottry and got James, I think had the second worst record in the NBA

Infinite MAN_force
05-21-2008, 10:02 AM
JO for Hinrich/Hughes makes way more sense on all levels than trading dunleavy for hinrich. Why would the bulls want dunleavy? If they pick rose they are going to want a post presence, not a small forward when they already have Deng. Not to mention you get hughes who can defend the perimeter and create his own shot, which is what everyone has been wanting.

it is a lot of contract to take on, but the expiring contracts of daniels and ike will allow us to pay granger, so no worries there.

Basketball Fan
05-21-2008, 11:22 AM
So Stern decides the lottery?




Where were you in 1985;)

DisplacedKnick
05-21-2008, 11:40 AM
Yep. Kind of like how Cleveland won the lottery when native son Lebron was the first pick, huh?

Where is Oliver Stone when we need him?

You kidding?

No way the NBA wanted Lebron in Cleveland - they'd have loved to plant him in Chicago or NYC.

eldubious
05-21-2008, 12:49 PM
The Bulls would be taking a step backward by drafting Rose. They would have to trade Hinrich and hope they find a big man. That doesn't make sense when they could take Beasley, keep Hinrich, and sign Arenas. This would be like the Hawks when they passed on Paul, they where adament M. Williams was the best player in the draft, while disregarding a glaring need for PG. The Bulls have a glaring need for a post player and can't afford to pass on another one (ala Aldridge).

The Pacers in my oppinon could put together an attractive offer for Gordon, they could trade JO (conivince him to restructure his deal to sign with the Bulls) for Gooden and Gordon (who would get a new contract from the Pacers).

Kegboy
05-21-2008, 01:03 PM
You kidding?

No way the NBA wanted Lebron in Cleveland - they'd have loved to plant him in Chicago or NYC.

I don't know, he could go somewhere that already sells out, or he can single-handedly keep a team in a decent market and make it excel. When his rookie contract is over and he's a superstar, then he can sign with a big-market team.

Naptown_Seth
05-21-2008, 01:12 PM
The integrity, but not the "pat on the back, and a second tier player". But it's accepted that that's the likely outcome, and it was.
Plus if you had to pick 1 of 3 guys to be a new Pacer would it be Tisdale, Person or Reggie.

The idea that being out of the top 10 is a disaster is WAY overrated. Half those top picks don't even make the original team a success. They get dealt and then impact a team. The Lakers won 3 titles with 2 HOF players that were NOT drafted by them. The Pistons didn't win with Darko, they won with Billups, Rip, Sheed and Ben, guys they didn't draft.


As I pointed out elsewhere, having a top 5 guy is not the key to a title. The reason is because being a top 5 guy usually means you will stay in the league and eventually that roster of top 5 guys, say for 8 years = 40 players, ends up spread out among the various teams via trades and FA moves.

The Pacers have a top 5 pick - Mike Dunleavy. So if they win it "proves" you have to have a top 5 guy. Funny how losing with a top 5 guy doesn't ever seem to disprove this POV for the obsessed tankers.


You play to win, you draft and trade and sign to put together a good team. Teams that intentionally try to undermine the system get burned just as much as the ones that don't. Just ask Orlando and Chicago about clearing cap space for Grant Hill or Tim Duncan. Heck, imagine if Boston was only able to do the Ray Allen/pick trade, how would that be looking right now? Getting KG and taking off had zero to do with their tanking effort.

Naptown_Seth
05-21-2008, 01:16 PM
Nice, this will be the Bulls 7th top 5 pick in 10 years. I kind of hate them.
A lot to hate. I mean clearly this has really worked out for them so far. Hating them for these picks is like hating the Clippers for theirs.

count55
05-21-2008, 01:19 PM
In support of Seth (& Joker's) comments, here's something I posted in a thread the other day:


...Here's a history of the NBA Top 5 picks (I think it's all of them, but I may have missed somebody) that have played for the Pacers:

Drafted by Pacers - Rick Robey (#3), Steve Stipanovich (#2), Wayman Tisdale (#2), Chuck Person (#4), Rik Smits (#2), and Jonathan Bender (#5).

Drafted by Others, played for Pacers later - Bill Garnett (#4), Sam Perkins (#4), Byron Scott (#4), Reggie Williams (#4), Mike Dunleavy, Jr. (#3)

Of 11 players, that's four bona fide busts (Robey, Bender, Garnett, Williams), two arguable busts (Stipo & Wayman), three solid pro's (Chuck, Rik, Junior), and two excellent pros (Perkins, Scott), but no superstars. No difference makers.

d_c
05-21-2008, 01:21 PM
Heck, imagine if Boston was only able to do the Ray Allen/pick trade, how would that be looking right now? Getting KG and taking off had zero to do with their tanking effort.

Chances are Boston told KG and his agent ahead of time about the potential Ray Allen deal and that's probably when KG agreed to go to Boston and the details simply got worked out between Boston-Minni after that.

(Originally, Boston-Mini had a Jefferson + #5 deal for KG, but it got nixed because KG felt it cupboard would be left bare in Boston.)

Would have been pretty foolish to do that Allen deal otherwise. No way you'd stockpile a bunch of young guys and then pair them with a 32 year old SG because their prime years wouldn't come anywhere near coinciding.

Mourning
05-21-2008, 02:28 PM
Exactly. Have they not had enough chances?

:amen:

DisplacedKnick
05-21-2008, 02:37 PM
In support of Seth (& Joker's) comments, here's something I posted in a thread the other day:

Not to argue your overall point but I don't see how anyone can call Tisdale a bust. He was a very good pro for a lot of years - his career was a lot like Aguirre's - not quite as good a pro as a college player but pretty solid.

count55
05-21-2008, 03:48 PM
Not to argue your overall point but I don't see how anyone can call Tisdale a bust. He was a very good pro for a lot of years - his career was a lot like Aguirre's - not quite as good a pro as a college player but pretty solid.

Yeah, I could remember him being pretty disappointing here, but I just looked at his career in Sacto, and it was much better than I recalled. He should certainly be moved to the solid pro category, particularly if I put Smits there, who certainly was a disappointment for his first few years.