PDA

View Full Version : Fix your face, mainstream music



ajbry
05-19-2008, 12:11 PM
Unfortunately I decided to listen to the radio this morning on my way home after my final. Normally I don't partake in such activities - not only because I don't have any desire to be brainwashed by Clear Channel and their blatant disregard for human intelligence - but because the mainstream music nowadays is completely intolerable for the most part. I've constructed a list of helpful suggestions for bringing mainstream radio and music back to some level of respectability...

1) Song title should be accompanied by the track's producer, not the artist. If your song is a mainstream hit, it's obviously not a result of profound and pleasing lyrical quality - it's because the production value is great and the beat is catchy and keeps your attention (and distracts you from the artist slobbering all over it). For instance, Usher's new song (I'm actually not sure if it's new but I assume it's a recent song) should be labeled as such: "**** in this ****" by Polow da Don featuring Usher. I'll elaborate on the asterisks in my next point. How many times have you been captivated by the eloquent message conveyed by a mainstream artist as of late? I'd be willing to guess it pretty much never happens that way. Conversely, if you hear a hot beat you'll be more inclined to listen to the song regardless of the lyrics that you must sit through.

2) Certain words/phrases need to be censored or banned completely: Hustle, club, shine, love, drank, on lock, rims, shawty, boss, sippin', make it rain, grill, and the like. I can't think of any more (thank god) but feel free to add some more as racking my brain for these linguistic abominations is making me more stupid by the second.

3) Old school is not Mase. Old school is not a limited selection of Tupac and Biggie singles from 1995-96. That is a pathetic sample size and marginalizes an entire generation's musical contributions. Old school should be Wu-Tang, N.W.A., Run DMC, ATCQ, Public Enemy, Pete Rock, and the like. Otherwise don't even bother fooling your audience with flashback tracks that are so limited in selection that it is only a disservice to that entire genre (my examples were rap-centric, but I'm sure those of you with varied tastes can understand this sentiment as well).

4) All "musicians" from Atlanta - except Andre 3000 and Cee-Lo - should have their recording contracts immediately terminated. There's just nothing of substance there and there definitely won't be, at least for the foreseeable future. However, the record companies are perpetuating the cycle by pushing this region's "music" on the rest of the country, assuming we'll value it for its "originality." That's bullsh*t. There's nothing original about making music with no rhythm or point.

5. Eliminate T-Pain and Akon. While we're at it, eliminate the clowns who felt it was necessary to completely saturate the market with their music. You take away the voice manipulation and heavy studio editing, and these two are flipping burgers for a living. Nothing further needs to be said.

6. Lazy, uninspired repetition does not equate to forming a catchy hook (that's the chorus for you old folks) and should not be utilized as it's very obviously the easiest way out. Additionally, for some reason these modern-day musicians find it reasonable to copy phrases used previously in other recent songs and assume nobody will notice.

7. Being "talented" should only get you so far. I hear people telling me all the time that Alicia Keys is legitimately talented and should be commended. At some point, you have to disregard someone's talent if their lyrical versatility is so severely limited that they only speak about one incredibly generic topic (in her case, men and love troubles). I'm sure women across the world are sincerely glad that female musicians commonly declare their physical and emotional dependance on men - that's progress, right? Can anyone remember the last time a female artist freely and forcefully expressed their opinion on an important issue that mobilized women everywhere to further that cause? I find it disappointing - not just in the music industry, but in the entire spectrum of American media and culture - that most women are oblivious to how much more they need to fight for and how much more they deserve. There's a quote that aptly describes this American phenomenon: "You are a nation that exploits women like consumer products... You then rant that you support the liberation of women." Okay, I definitely veered off course on that one but my point remains the same.


Let's see some more suggestions, I'm sure I forgot something that must irritate someone else.

Shade
05-19-2008, 12:21 PM
The appropriate title for this thread is:

ROT IN HELL, MAINSTREAM MUSIC!!!

With that said, I don't think I'll ever understand the appeal of rap in the first place. Just like I don't get country or stuff like the Macarena. :suicide:

Peck
05-19-2008, 12:30 PM
While I agree with many of your assertions, I have to ask. Are you equating mainstream music only hip/hop rap?

I mean while your old school RUN DMC, NWA, etc., etc. are fine they are very much only rap stars.

I have also recently made it a point to listen to modern music, I tend to do this about every 7 years or so, and I was very much suprised that a lot of the music from today was not generated by rap/soul/hip/hop artist.

Actaully I was shocked to hear songs like Money Honey and In love with a girl were actually popular. I was even more stunned that I actually liked the song Money Honey.

While I notice that Rihanna, Lil Wayne and Usher are still up on top it was actually kind of suprising that other forms of music are starting to creep back into the mainstream.

Actually I guess my question is, and please remember I'm an old man, does hip/hop still rule the mainstream like it did and if not how long has this been?

Major Cold
05-19-2008, 12:33 PM
I was once a fan of the Hip hop. But do to fortunate events in my life I have chosen to forsake Hip Hop that contradict those events.

But looking back I realize that the goal is to make money. Everyone "sells out" to sell more. No matter what, they make records to make a living. And when the majority of buyers are in one demographic (not talking about a racial demographic either, more an age demographic) they will milk those buyers interests.


I'm sure women across the world are sincerely glad that female musicians commonly declare their physical and emotional dependance on men - that's progress, right?

This will never change. Both men and women feel that the other can validate them as men and women. Hooking up with 47 women does not make you a man. Just like having a man taking care of you does not make you a woman. What really gives us validation anyway?

<object height="355" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7AiYy8cKE7s&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="355" width="425"></object>

ajbry
05-19-2008, 12:34 PM
I am personally equating mainstream music with mainstream hip hop, for the most part. I just don't really listen to the other genres in general - haven't for about 10 years now.

I would say hip hop doesn't rule the mainstream but it dominates a lot of trends in mainstream and is a significant portion of what young people listen to.

Shade
05-19-2008, 12:35 PM
I decided I should add a bit more to the thread:



2) Certain words/phrases need to be censored or banned completely: Hustle, club, shine, love, drank, on lock, rims, shawty, boss, sippin', make it rain, grill, and the like. I can't think of any more (thank god) but feel free to add some more as racking my brain for these linguistic abominations is making me more stupid by the second.

I would love to hear a rap song with proper English. Or even one complete sentence. It would blow my mind.


3) Old school is not Mase. Old school is not a limited selection of Tupac and Biggie singles from 1995-96. That is a pathetic sample size and marginalizes an entire generation's musical contributions. Old school should be Wu-Tang, N.W.A., Run DMC, ATCQ, Public Enemy, Pete Rock, and the like. Otherwise don't even bother fooling your audience with flashback tracks that are so limited in selection that it is only a disservice to that entire genre (my examples were rap-centric, but I'm sure those of you with varied tastes can understand this sentiment as well).

It's quite clear that "old school" refers to M.C. Hammer and...uh...Vanilla Ice.

Go ninja, go ninja, GO! :runout:


4) All "musicians" from Atlanta - except Andre 3000 and Cee-Lo - should have their recording contracts immediately terminated. There's just nothing of substance there and there definitely won't be, at least for the foreseeable future. However, the record companies are perpetuating the cycle by pushing this region's "music" on the rest of the country, assuming we'll value it for its "originality." That's bullsh*t. There's nothing original about making music with no rhythm or point.

As long as people keep buying crap, crap will keep coming down the pipeline.


5. Eliminate T-Pain and Akon. While we're at it, eliminate the clowns who felt it was necessary to completely saturate the market with their music. You take away the voice manipulation and heavy studio editing, and these two are flipping burgers for a living. Nothing further needs to be said.

That could be said of a looooot of musicians. I guess this is one reason I don't like rap; I can't appreciate it. It just doesn't seem to require much talent to be a rap artist. No singing, no instruments...just rhyming. Yay.


6. Lazy, uninspired repetition does not equate to forming a catchy hook (that's the chorus for you old folks) and should not be utilized as it's very obviously the easiest way out. Additionally, for some reason these modern-day musicians find it reasonable to copy phrases used previously in other recent songs and assume nobody will notice.

Not to mention the overflow of cover songs that keep flooding the market. Talk about originality. :rolleyes:


7. Being "talented" should only get you so far. I hear people telling me all the time that Alicia Keys is legitimately talented and should be commended. At some point, you have to disregard someone's talent if their lyrical versatility is so severely limited that they only speak about one incredibly generic topic (in her case, men and love troubles). I'm sure women across the world are sincerely glad that female musicians commonly declare their physical and emotional dependance on men - that's progress, right? Can anyone remember the last time a female artist freely and forcefully expressed their opinion on an important issue that mobilized women everywhere to further that cause? I find it disappointing - not just in the music industry, but in the entire spectrum of American media and culture - that most women are oblivious to how much more they need to fight for and how much more they deserve. There's a quote that aptly describes this American phenomenon: "You are a nation that exploits women like consumer products... You then rant that you support the liberation of women." Okay, I definitely veered off course on that one but my point remains the same.

Obviously, talent evaluation is in the eye of the beholder, but I consider someone talented when I admire what they can do. I have yet to hear a rap artist that I admire. I think, with rap in particular, it's more about the message than the music.

Peck
05-19-2008, 12:37 PM
I am personally equating mainstream music with mainstream hip hop, for the most part. I just don't really listen to the other genres in general - haven't for about 10 years now.

I would say hip hop doesn't rule the mainstream but it dominates a lot of trends in mainstream and is a significant portion of what young people listen to.

Ok, cool thanks.

BTW, just out of curiostiy what other forms of music did you listen to 10 years ago and why did you stop?

SoupIsGood
05-19-2008, 01:21 PM
I would love to hear a rap song with proper English.


Why?

Shade
05-19-2008, 01:24 PM
Why?

Because then I could actually understand what is being said. :D

ajbry
05-19-2008, 01:25 PM
Ok, cool thanks.

BTW, just out of curiostiy what other forms of music did you listen to 10 years ago and why did you stop?

Ten years ago, I guess when I was about 9 or 10, I'd just listen to whatever was on the radio. You name it and my friends and I probably loved it. Smashmouth, TLC, Eiffel 65, Alanis Morissette, Will Smith, etc.

JayRedd
05-19-2008, 01:27 PM
Stopped listening to the radio myself a while back. I still hear some of that nonsense, but since I'm rarely in cars nowadays nor do I go to clubs where they play the current "bangers" much lately, I find myself woefully ignorant for the most part. I even miss out on a lot of the mixtape stuff now, too.

I'm not saying any of this is a bad thing, but I just don't hear much mainstream stuff aside from the real heavyweights like Jay, Kanye, Nas, etc...and of course Weezy, who I make sure to track down on Hip Hop Game and the like.

There's still a lot of good hip hop out there if you look around though, as I'm sure you know. And really, I think it's for the best that that mainstream stuff is horrible. It's largely been trash since like 2004 and this can't go on for much long before the whole genre falls out of popular flavor. And once it crawls back into the basement it has to improve...or at least change the subject matter away from pretending to have money.

Cause at this point, it's like the early 00s NBA where everyone -- including Ricky Davis -- wanted to be Mike. In the rap game, everyone wants to be Jay and they're swaggerjacking his whole demeanor. It was cool for him and worked cause it was real, but you can't have 100 mainstream rappers all walking around thinking they're the coolest, richest and ballingest dude in the industry. It's just tacky and unoriginal.

Take it back to the basement and we'll get more Little Brothers, Techniques, Co Flows, Dilateds, Ghosts, Masta Aces, Jedi Minds, De Las and Redmans coming out of the woodwork.

Also...On ATL: Luda can keep spitting. And if Cee Lo could track down the rest of Goodie Mob, I would rejoice.

And Alicia Keys is really talented. She can sing about duct tape if she wants and it will still often be good.

Suaveness
05-19-2008, 01:31 PM
I stopped listening to hip/hop as my main music genre early in college. I guess I just grew out of it (I only really listened to it for like a couple years). I like more mellow stuff, and more catchy stuff.

And I still enjoy my classical. Can't beat that

ajbry
05-19-2008, 01:36 PM
There's still a lot of good hip hop out there if you look around though, as I'm sure you know. And really, I think it's for the best that that mainstream stuff is horrible. It's largely been trash since like 2004 and this can't go on for much long before the whole genre falls out of popular flavor. And once it crawls back into the basement it has to improve...or at least change the subject matter away from pretending to have money.

Cause at this point, it's like the early 00s NBA where everyone -- including Ricky Davis -- wanted to be Mike. In the rap game, everyone wants to be Jay and they're swaggerjacking his whole demeanor. It was cool for him and worked cause it was real, but you can't have 100 mainstream rappers all waling around thinking they're the coolest, richest and ballingest dude in the industry.

Bingo. That's good *** analysis.

But what if current rap doesn't actually fall out of favor? It's held on for several years at this level and shows no signs of slowing. I mean, Soulja Boy is still relevant - if he's not enough to wake up the general public and begin the gradual downfall of modern rap, what will?

Twes
05-19-2008, 01:37 PM
but since I'm rarely in cars nowadays...

Amazing.

I feel like I spend half my life in cars these days.

:cool:

JayRedd
05-19-2008, 01:50 PM
Other than cabs -- which play 90% salsa, merengue or bachata -- I don't think I've been in a car in close to a month.

You may be right, ajbry. But tastes are cyclical and you'd think it would have to change soon, right? Rap has been dominant since like, what, 1998 at this point?

I guess this nonsense has been able to hold on so long because the biggest demographic for music is probably 10- to 18 year-olds, who we all know are pretty dumb and, among the current generation anyway, aren't really looking for any sort of depth of content. The "catchyness" of beat making has to help as well, but this just can't go on forever.

But a new version of grunge, disco or punk has to emerge eventually and take the youth of America by storm eventually, right?

Shade
05-19-2008, 01:55 PM
Bingo. That's good *** analysis.

But what if current rap doesn't actually fall out of favor? It's held on for several years at this level and shows no signs of slowing. I mean, Soulja Boy is still relevant - if he's not enough to wake up the general public and begin the gradual downfall of modern rap, what will?

LeBron James approves this message.

http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q277/calidust619/th_LBJJ.gif

ajbry
05-19-2008, 02:00 PM
But a new version of grunge, disco or punk has to emerge eventually and take the youth of America by storm eventually, right?

I'd put money on it that the next trend - whenever it does indeed rise up - will be something heavily electronic-based. The culture of music and the culture of nightlife and clubs are so intertwined these days to the point that the two are inseparable. The demographic that record companies aim at won't be enthusiastic about traditional music. Some Americans are already into house, trance, and the like... I can see that being the path to the next big thing. God, that's going to suck.

Twes
05-19-2008, 02:00 PM
I'd be curious to see what the breakdown is between the various musical worlds.

I know there are legions of the country music folk out there too and that world is going strong.

I'm in neither of these worlds. Of course I'm old and irrelevant but I did get my first ipod this month.

:D

JayRedd
05-19-2008, 02:13 PM
I'd put money on it that the next trend - whenever it does indeed rise up - will be something heavily electronic-based. The culture of music and the culture of nightlife and clubs are so intertwined these days to the point that the two are inseparable. The demographic that record companies aim at won't be enthusiastic about traditional music. Some Americans are already into house, trance, and the like... I can see that being the path to the next big thing. God, that's going to suck.

I'm afraid you're right.

I've often thought how funny it's going to be when I'm in my 50s and listening to "Classic Hip Hop" like Raekwon, Illmatic and Big L and my kids are going to think I'm some lame old man listening to dinosaur music that wasn't made by computers. And I'm going to think their stuff is just as incomprehensible, obnoxious and non-musical as my parents thought 36 Chambers and Ready to Die were.

ajbry
05-19-2008, 02:25 PM
I've often thought how funny it's going to be when I'm in my 50s and listening to "Classic Hip Hop" like Raekwon, Illmatic and Big L and my kids are going to think I'm some lame old man listening to dinosaur music that wasn't made by computers. And I'm going to think their stuff is just as incomprehensible, obnoxious and non-musical as my parents thought 36 Chambers and Ready to Die were.

:laugh:

And that speaks perfectly to the point you made about it being cyclical. Either way, your tastes are going to be disconnected from the next generation regardless of what the music actually sounds like.

Trader Joe
05-19-2008, 04:12 PM
If we could load Soulja Boy and his ilk onto a bus I would drive to the edge of the ocean and put the rock on the pedal.

Anthem
05-20-2008, 12:04 AM
I would love to hear a rap song with proper English. Or even one complete sentence. It would blow my mind.
Your wish is my command.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?p=721034

SycamoreKen
05-20-2008, 12:19 AM
I can listen to any genra of music, from country to rap to classical, but I rarely listen to them outside of the Christian music field now. Music is very personal to me and I like getting good messages with a variety of styles.

I know who most of the current stars are through reading about them, but I have no clue what their songs are.

Bball
05-20-2008, 12:55 PM
I'd put money on it that the next trend - whenever it does indeed rise up - will be something heavily electronic-based. The culture of music and the culture of nightlife and clubs are so intertwined these days to the point that the two are inseparable. The demographic that record companies aim at won't be enthusiastic about traditional music. Some Americans are already into house, trance, and the like... I can see that being the path to the next big thing. God, that's going to suck.


I would think whatever would take off next would be something that is different from current trends rather than some melting pot of them. There could/would certainly be flavors of them around but overall I'd expect the final product to be more different.

LoneGranger33
05-21-2008, 01:31 AM
I've heard good things about Mos Def, especially from the activist community. I think rap music can have - and indeed has had - the same transformative power as some folk and rock music did in the 1950s and 1960s, which is why, even though I myself do not find it culturally relevant, I can see its value.

lenin_fresh
05-21-2008, 02:23 AM
I think the answer is pretty clear. We have to get the youth of today listening to death metal before it's too late. :p I haven't listened to mainstream music since I was in high school, though I do enjoy some rappers and some punk rock. When I was in high school I was a total metal nerd, then hardcore, etc. Different scenes have highs and lows. Metal right now seems to be having a pretty good couple of years, it'll happen to hip hop again soon.

Mainstream music seems like it's becoming a victim of two things as well: the first is it's own success and the second is DIY. It seems like major labels just got lazy in finding good music and in the end just went for safe picks. They went from finding potentially good bands or acts to picking up pretty faces and digitally altering their voices and recycling old formulas that used to work out. DIY pretty much made it so that bands and potential indie label people decided to completely ignore the majors. It created another culture with zines, independent tours, and just about anything you can think of. That's just my observation though, I've never worked around that kind of environment. I've just known a few people in bands and was in one myself. So I'm sure someone here knows better than I do on the subject. :buddies:

Mos Def is pretty great by the way. So is Saul Williams. I saw someone mention Mos Def at least.

rexnom
05-21-2008, 03:56 AM
Other than cabs -- which play 90% salsa, merengue or bachata -- I don't think I've been in a car in close to a month.

You may be right, ajbry. But tastes are cyclical and you'd think it would have to change soon, right? Rap has been dominant since like, what, 1998 at this point?

I guess this nonsense has been able to hold on so long because the biggest demographic for music is probably 10- to 18 year-olds, who we all know are pretty dumb and, among the current generation anyway, aren't really looking for any sort of depth of content. The "catchyness" of beat making has to help as well, but this just can't go on forever.

But a new version of grunge, disco or punk has to emerge eventually and take the youth of America by storm eventually, right?
I think that we're already seeing a new trend: songs that you can't stand listening to on the radio but that you go crazy for in the club. I hate Soulja Boy as much as the next guy but when his song comes on in the club, I'm the first one to start cranking it.

The same goes with T-Pain. His stuff is awesome in the club. And Weezy's jams too. Girls go crazy for lollipop, strangely, considering the content of the song.

bellisimo
05-21-2008, 06:55 AM
I think that we're already seeing a new trend: songs that you can't stand listening to on the radio but that you go crazy for in the club. I hate Soulja Boy as much as the next guy but when his song comes on in the club, I'm the first one to start cranking it.

The same goes with T-Pain. His stuff is awesome in the club. And Weezy's jams too. Girls go crazy for lollipop, strangely, considering the content of the song.


really? compared to late 90s/early 2000s - these "club bangers" are mediocre at best...

maybe thats why I switched to house/progressive/electro these days...

Trader Joe
05-21-2008, 08:27 AM
The dirtier the song, the crazier girls go for it.

Naptown_Seth
05-21-2008, 12:46 PM
4) All "musicians" from Atlanta - except Andre 3000 and Cee-Lo - should have their recording contracts immediately terminated.
FTW! :D

I mean I'm all for movements, but they always end up with a bunch of horrible bandwagon artists who don't understand the movement and/or don't have nearly the talent to participate. And what's worse is that these acts typically marginalize the smaller, more legitimate acts in that movement that simply don't match the pattern well-enough to be scooped up and spoonfed out.

See Mudhoney and the grunge movement for example.


Dre and Cee-Lo though, it's like Prince and Al Green were just reborn at the start of their careers.

Luda can keep spitting
Whoops, I forgot/agree with that too.

Let me add this irony, the commericalism of music sources (radio, MTV, etc) has made COMMERCIALS a better source of new, interesting music. A band like Greenskeepers gets way more play by getting the GTA IV commerical than they ever could with normal radio. And Kings of Leon is almost exclusively heard on commercials or Entourage.

I no longer dislike these relationships. I'd rather some clever ad exec cherry pick out a nice band than have a record company create the next pop monster from scratch or photocopying.

I do hold out hope for SNL who has booked some nice acts and had some solid performances in recent years, Ashlee notwithstanding. Gnarls tore the joint up, for example.

Naptown_Seth
05-21-2008, 01:03 PM
On other thought, another great source for music now is GAMES. Obviously Rock Band/GH are bringing back classic rock in the next generation. A common experience now is a parent saying "my 8 year old sings the Clash all day long now" because of this source.

And then you have someone like Vagiant, the Boston punk girl group. I never would have heard of this band, and while they aren't breakthrough they are some fun, classic punk that would NEVER hit the Indy airwaves or the various MTV incarnations.

GH/RB slap a couple of their songs out there and that drove me to buy an album (ITunes because you can't even get the CD in typical stores). If that whole process doesn't speak to the problem I don't know what does.

JayRedd
05-21-2008, 01:18 PM
Let me add this irony, the commericalism of music sources (radio, MTV, etc) has made COMMERCIALS a better source of new, interesting music. A band like Greenskeepers gets way more play by getting the GTA IV commerical than they ever could with normal radio. And Kings of Leon is almost exclusively heard on commercials or Entourage.

This is certainly true. Those Apple commercials basically made Feist and Yael Naim on a mainstream level.

And fricking Saigon, who was utterly destroying the NY mixtape scene for a solid year and a half could barely even make the midnight radio here on Hot 97 or Power 105, had to go on Entourage to even get any exposure. The guy was selling probably selling 20,000 $5 bootlegs a month for a year straight, but the labels couldn't find a way to get him national exposure without Turtle and Ari. Meanwhile, the label still f***ed up the album and dude is now floundering around without being on a major. The dude has talent for days and these idiots still can't figure out how to just get s music to consumers.

The internet has staggered these middle-aged suits who run the majors so dramatically that it's really gonna take them a full decade to come up with a new business model. Hell, it's already been about 10 years and Steve Jobs is the only guy who's even begun to get a handle on the situation. Sony, EMI, Universal and Warner are still just flailing around with their heads up their collective a$ses.



I think that we're already seeing a new trend: songs that you can't stand listening to on the radio but that you go crazy for in the club. I hate Soulja Boy as much as the next guy but when his song comes on in the club, I'm the first one to start cranking it.

Oh...don't get me wrong. I've Cranked Dat publicly at least four times drunk in the last few months. Stuff like that and Weezy don't really bother me as no one is really pretending they should be taken seriously. What really bothers me are these no-talent as$-clowns like CamRon, Buddens and Yayo that the younger generation legitimately thinks are "artists."

ajbry
05-21-2008, 01:57 PM
Oh...don't get me wrong. I've Cranked Dat publicly at least four times drunk in the last few months. Stuff like that and Weezy don't really bother me as no one is really pretending they should be taken seriously. What really bothers me are these no-talent as$-clowns like CamRon, Buddens and Yayo that the younger generation legitimately thinks are "artists."

In general you're correct regarding Soulja Boy and Wayne if we're talking about reasonable, rational people who appreciate actual music but can admit to enjoying lesser music on a primitive and basic level. But you also have to take into account that there are just as many people who actually believe Wayne is "the best rapper alive" and won't hesitate to promote his music.

BTW, I actually think Joe Budden is pretty decent, dude's just been caught in a similar situation as Saigon - label problems.

Seth, you make an awesome point about the new forms of exposure. Luckily it's been geared towards progressive and legitimately talented artists - let's hope it stays on that course.

JayRedd
05-21-2008, 04:03 PM
I've honestly never even listened to Buddens. Just always saw him as a poor man's F.A.B.O. with an annoying voice. That NBA track is admittedly hot though.

And yeah, agreed on Weezy. It's indeed comical that people think he can rhyme and that people think that title is real (especially when it clearly belongs to John Brown). Wayne's "verse" on that Kanye track is maybe the worst thing I've ever heard. Betta grab an umbrella.

Trader Joe
05-21-2008, 04:23 PM
I've never understood the fascination with Weezy as a real artist. He's more of a club banger to me and always has been.

What does everyone think about T.I. ?

ajbry
05-21-2008, 05:12 PM
I've never understood the fascination with Weezy as a real artist. He's more of a club banger to me and always has been.

What does everyone think about T.I. ?

That's the point. You - as an intelligent person - can differentiate between the two. Others can't, and they don't see any difference between being a club artist and a real artist, because either way you'll get radio play and club spins.

T.I. is trash. He's never appealed to me and his voice, flow, and subject matter is always underwhelming. He's not even one of those mainstream rappers that you can say "oh, he used to be good but now he's soft" and all that - he was never good to begin with IMO. Although admittedly I do have "What You Know" on my iTunes because the beat is filthy.

Trader Joe
05-21-2008, 07:54 PM
That's the point. You - as an intelligent person - can differentiate between the two. Others can't, and they don't see any difference between being a club artist and a real artist, because either way you'll get radio play and club spins.

T.I. is trash. He's never appealed to me and his voice, flow, and subject matter is always underwhelming. He's not even one of those mainstream rappers that you can say "oh, he used to be good but now he's soft" and all that - he was never good to begin with IMO. Although admittedly I do have "What You Know" on my iTunes because the beat is filthy.

I've always thought T.I. is hit or miss. I do think he's greatly underachieved. I really liked Trap Muzik, but I thought King and T.I. vs. TIP were both steps backward, and I really wanted to like T.I. vs. TIP cause I liked the song that inspired the album back on Trap Muzik. I do think he probably has some of the best production quality around though, and I don't mind listening to him when I'm partying.

ajbry
05-21-2008, 07:57 PM
If we want to talk about underachieving, that conversation - in my personal opinion - starts and ends with Nasir Jones. Dude was granted amazing talent, a pedigree of musical excellence, and the backdrop of the most rap-centric city and still couldn't hold himself to a higher standard. Illmatic was a classic but otherwise he's failed, because he could have been the GOAT and at the very least should have been better than Jay-Z during that era.

JayRedd
05-21-2008, 08:02 PM
"Failed" is beyond harsh.

ajbry
05-21-2008, 08:04 PM
"Failed" is a relative term. Of course Nas has still reached success at a level most rappers can't even dream of, but given his natural gifts and the potential he once had to be the best, he's failed to maximize his talent.

Isaac
05-21-2008, 08:06 PM
Mr. Lif, People Under Stairs, Immortal Technique are the top three in my playlist right now.

I'm starting to think Mr. Lif is the best rapper out there currently. He is incredibly inventive, can use multiple different styles and I always love his production. The songs Home of the Brave, Earthcrusher, Brothaz and The Fries are must-listens.

I hate Lil Wayne with a passion, but I'll admit that I like the song he does with Lupe "Big Cannons" or something like that.

By the way I TOTALLY agree on Nas. Since Illmatic it has all been downhill.

ajbry
05-21-2008, 08:09 PM
I'd listen to more of Mr. Lif (and The Perceptionists) but honestly I can't stand his voice for more than a few minutes.

And Acid Raindrops is fantastic. Just pure hip-hop.

Isaac
05-21-2008, 10:34 PM
I'd listen to more of Mr. Lif (and The Perceptionists) but honestly I can't stand his voice for more than a few minutes.

That surprises me. I love his delivery and style. His voice has sort of a caribbean tone to it which I like.



And Acid Raindrops is fantastic. Just pure hip-hop.

No doubt, thatīs my favorite PUTS song too. So smooth and has a great flow. PUTS arenīt exactly consistent, they definitley have some songs that bore me to death, but they are the only group around these days that remind me of ATCQ who I love.

Anthem
05-21-2008, 10:56 PM
Sony, EMI, Universal and Warner are still just flailing around with their heads up their collective a$ses.
But that's been true for far longer than there's been an internet. There have always been incredible artists that the studios missed... it's not a new phenomenon. You're thinking "Well the Internet shows people what they're missing and that's why the studios are tanking." Not true. The studios are tanking because of the ease of format change.

The only thing that's kept the record industry going has been people's need to buy their old music in the new format. My dad bought all of his records on tapes and then on CDs. Now that he can rip the CDs to his iPod, though, he doesn't have to buy any of his old music again, which means he doesn't buy music since he has more than he can listen to. At this point people have bought all of the old music they want, and there's not enough (good) new music in a given year to keep the studios afloat. Which is why the records fought against format-shifting, claiming that people should have to buy their tracks again before putting them on MP3 players.

Screw 'em. We didn't cry for the buggy whip manufacturers when the horseless carriage took over, and I won't cry for those parasites now.

Peck
05-22-2008, 03:54 AM
Back to an earlier question I guess.

This thread was about "mainstream music" and all I have heard about is rap. Now obviously I am old but as I said I have been making it a point to listen to the "hits" stations on both sirius & XM and while I certainly have heard Usher, Lil wayne and a few others I would not say that what I have heard over the past 3 weeks has been abundantly rap.

I guess what I'm asking is, have I just not been listening long enough? Is rap still the dominate music force out there?

Honestly I've heard far more Gavin DeGraw, Taylor Swift and Leona Lewis.

*Edit* Ok I just went and looked up the top 40 songs in the U.S. right now and by far and away the number of songs there are hip/hop singers.

In fact 17 of the top 40 are pure hip/hop and about 5 of the others are probably in that niche of music however just to be honest I have no idea who they are.

So I guess hip/hop still is on top. I would have to say that honestly this has to be the longest run for any form of music since the 50's to stay so firmly entrenched as the dominate culterural art form. We are going on at least 10 years if not really 15.

I'm not saying that this is bad btw, I'm just pointing it out.

rexnom
05-22-2008, 02:18 PM
Interesting read guys. Almost as interesting as Peck going with Gul Dukat (pre-op) for his avy. Quirky choice. I guess Peck likes the Dominion guys.

Peck
05-22-2008, 05:08 PM
Interesting read guys. Almost as interesting as Peck going with Gul Dukat (pre-op) for his avy. Quirky choice. I guess Peck likes the Dominion guys.

Oh hell yah!!!!!!!!!!!

All hail the founders. :bowdown: