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Hicks
05-17-2008, 10:16 PM
I was having a brief conversation with someone about the Pacers today, and Shawne Williams came up.

The man I was talking to is often quick to judge, and of course was very anti-Shawne. I tried to stick up for him, but failed miserably because I think I mis-spoke about why we should lay off of him, and it just fueled the fire for this man to be down on Shawne.

I believe I incorrectly stated that Shawne pressured into letting this murderer into his home, when in hindsight I think I was so anxious to defend him I said something I'd read as speculation, not as fact.

Is that true or not, and have you ever been in a situation like this? I was so, so frustrated because I wanted to argue with him but between his mind already being made up (which is enough, really) and already dropping the ball, I had to bite my tongue. The hardest part? I didn't get to part company with him for several more hours, and we don't usually get along that well anyway. "Fun".

So I thought I might at least make myself feel better for getting a recap on the facts that MIGHT make Shawne look better regarding this "friend" of his.....? Thanks.

Roaming Gnome
05-17-2008, 10:27 PM
Yeah, I usually let them go off in their closed little world and try not to let it effect mine too much.

Most, not all...that already have their minds made up about "those Pacers are thugs or whatever" are usually not worth carrying a basketball conversation with becuase more times then not, they are one of the local, "I hate the NBA types".


I deal with folks wanting to rip on the Pacers just about daily.

Since we are loosely on the topic of public perception:

The last negative headline involving the Indiana Pacers was:
80 Days ago

Indianapolis_girly
05-18-2008, 02:43 AM
Mhm. A lot of people know I'm a Pacer person, and they make it a point to say bad things about them in front of me. Some people say they suck and some people say they're "thugs."
I really don't pay them no mind because one of these days we will be good again, and I'll be able to say that I was there when things weren't going so hot being a supportive fan for the most part. The thug thing kinda makes me mad because if those people would meet the guys on this team just once, their oppinion would change. People go by what they see in this world unfortunately and are quick to judge. :/

Will Galen
05-18-2008, 04:47 AM
I was having a brief conversation with someone about the Pacers today, and Shawne Williams came up.

The man I was talking to is often quick to judge, and of course was very anti-Shawne. I tried to stick up for him, but failed miserably because I think I mis-spoke about why we should lay off of him, and it just fueled the fire for this man to be down on Shawne.

I believe I incorrectly stated that Shawne pressured into letting this murderer into his home, when in hindsight I think I was so anxious to defend him I said something I'd read as speculation, not as fact.

Is that true or not, and have you ever been in a situation like this? I was so, so frustrated because I wanted to argue with him but between his mind already being made up (which is enough, really) and already dropping the ball, I had to bite my tongue. The hardest part? I didn't get to part company with him for several more hours, and we don't usually get along that well anyway. "Fun".

So I thought I might at least make myself feel better for getting a recap on the facts that MIGHT make Shawne look better regarding this "friend" of his.....? Thanks.

I have been in similar situations. You're enthused about something and other people aren't. It's been my experience that you can have most all the facts on your side and they will pick one thing, that might not even be true, and that will convince them you are wrong. There's really nothing you can do abut it.

I would say don't talk Pacers with the guy if it makes you feel bad.

RamBo_Lamar
05-18-2008, 08:14 AM
I would say don't talk Pacers with the guy if it makes you feel bad.


That goes doubley for talking with gals too.

Having tried striking up a conversation with a female co-worker about the
Pacers to gauge her interest, was quite taken aback when she immediately
stated, "Pro basketball players are just a bunch of criminals". I just smiled
and replied, "I can't necessarily say that I agree with all that", and then
dropped it altogether and changed the subject.

Coming from someone as intelligent (so I thought), hard-working, and being
someone I've thought highly of, it was disturbing to hear her say that.
And I have no doubt that had I engaged her on the subject I would have
lost standing with her as well.

It really is odd how seemingly reasonable, sensible people can be so freakingly
ignorant when it comes to judging NBA players they know absolutely
nothing about. They don't seem to realize that when making blanket
statements like that, they are making themselves look idiotic.

JayRedd
05-18-2008, 02:53 PM
It rarely happens with me seeing as the only people I that I talk Pacers with tend to be NBA fans and at least have a pretty good understanding of our horrible, horrible team.

It happens to me constantly about Manny Ramirez though. And I'm a stubborn idiot who knows I'm right so I go to war with people who think his antics actually hurt the team every time. Very rarely is it a productive conversation and it usually ends up with me getting unnecessarily energetic.

grace
05-18-2008, 03:25 PM
That goes doubley for talking with gals too.

Having tried striking up a conversation with a female co-worker about the
Pacers to gauge her interest, was quite taken aback when she immediately
stated, "Pro basketball players are just a bunch of criminals". I just smiled
and replied, "I can't necessarily say that I agree with all that", and then
dropped it altogether and changed the subject.

Coming from someone as intelligent (so I thought), hard-working, and being
someone I've thought highly of, it was disturbing to hear her say that.
And I have no doubt that had I engaged her on the subject I would have
lost standing with her as well.

It really is odd how seemingly reasonable, sensible people can be so freakingly
ignorant when it comes to judging NBA players they know absolutely
nothing about. They don't seem to realize that when making blanket
statements like that, they are making themselves look idiotic.

Is she even an NBA fan? Because if she's not then all she's ever heard of is when a player gets in trouble. Since she didn't bring the subject up I'd say she's not ignorant. It's more like she's not well informed. Actually I'd say she just doesn't give a :censored:.

JayRedd
05-18-2008, 04:04 PM
I'd say she's not ignorant. It's more like she's not well informed.

I enjoyed this on so many levels.

Unclebuck
05-19-2008, 08:11 AM
I've given up long ago trying to persuade anyone who is anti-Pacers. When someone talks negatively about the Pacers I usually just smile, if they ask me about them such as, "do you mean you still go to their games?) - I just say yes I do.

avoidingtheclowns
05-19-2008, 12:17 PM
It rarely happens with me seeing as the only people I that I talk Pacers with tend to be NBA fans and at least have a pretty good understanding of our horrible, horrible team.

i'm in a similar situation-- most of the people i discuss basketball with are fairly knowledgable about the NBA and don't have the "they're all thugs" perspective. mostly what i have to do is correct opinions of people who only know pacers by their fantasy stats ("Troy Murphy is a beast...")


It happens to me constantly about Manny Ramirez though. And I'm a stubborn idiot who knows I'm right so I go to war with people who think his antics actually hurt the team every time. Very rarely is it a productive conversation and it usually ends up with me getting unnecessarily energetic.

oh come on. manny is just bein' manny...

R_SkEkXcHbc

i kind of agree with you, but i don't think every 'antic' is harmful -- i kind of look at manny like i do rasheed wallace. ultimately i think there are more destructive personalities in baseball clubhouses than manny though it is possible that i've been numbed by two world series wins...

JayRedd
05-19-2008, 02:01 PM
First off, that hand slap thing last week was amazing. And the Johnny Damon cut-off was the best play in baseball history.

But...I think you misread me, atc.

I don't think anything Manny does is ever harmful. Not anymore than any other player making the occasional mistakes over a 182-game season anyway. And way less than even Sheed. As far as destructive personalities goes, there are many three or four of his teammates he's ever had since Cleveland that have anything bad to say about the guy.

It's all blown out of proportion crap and half the people in Boston legitimately don't like him even though he's the best hitter we've had Jimmie Foxx. And every time someone starts bad mouthing him in my presence -- whether it's a drunk Boston fan in Fenway, a Yankee fanatic at work or just some objective hater -- I argue with them until they give up.

Although, it's entirely unproductive since I've never convinced anyone I'm right aside from a few close friends who I've been working on for like five years.

And I imagine that's what it's like for people in Indy trying to convince people that JO is a good guy or that Jamaal shouldn't be in prison: Completely useless and only a waste of energy, but something you do anyway because you're passionate about it and think you're right.

avoidingtheclowns
05-19-2008, 02:53 PM
First off, that hand slap thing last week was amazing. And the Johnny Damon cut-off was the best play in baseball history.

But...I think you misread me, atc.

yeah i totally did. sorry. i thought you were saying you were going to war to argue that manny's antics hurt the team every time.

you and i are basically in agreement then. the only manny things i have a problem with were the years he would come in demanding a trade, yadda yadda yadda. i hate that destructive bull**** regardless of the sport/player. i also could do without the times he poses and turns doubles / triples into singles. other than that i love the guy.


First off, that hand slap thing last week was amazing. And the Johnny Damon cut-off was the best play in baseball history.

you are correct, sir

Naptown_Seth
05-19-2008, 03:10 PM
Yeah, I usually let them go off in their closed little world and try not to let it effect mine too much.

Most, not all...that already have their minds made up about "those Pacers are thugs or whatever" are usually not worth carrying a basketball conversation with becuase more times then not, they are one of the local, "I hate the NBA types".


I deal with folks wanting to rip on the Pacers just about daily.

Since we are loosely on the topic of public perception:
My method this year?

1) "Thugs? Which guys on the team don't you like?"
2) they list the usual suspects
3) "Dude hasn't played in months, anyone else? What did Mike Dunleavy do that you don't like? What's wrong with Diener or Foster? You don't like Danny Granger?"
4) either "he hasn't been playing" or "who is that"
5) Me - "Exactly. You're mad about stuff that no longer applies. You should check out these new Pacers some time."

It still doesn't always work, but the reasonable guys are at least willing to listen to the idea that there are lots of things likeable/not hateable about the current Pacers. I drug a few out to games during the year even and for most of them it was the first time hearing about Diener, Granger and even Dunleavy.

But the key is to let the other person define the problems in more exact terms instead of fighting directly. Let them identify the players, then point out how that's not the player they'd be watching if they went.


As for Shawne, you might have mentioned to the guy that Brizzi is very interested in all parties with good information about the Shawne case to step forward. I mean it sounds like he knows exactly what went down. Dude's ready to Law and Order bomb all over Williams.

"Well, I don't know for sure..."
again - "Exactly"



<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Pacers "In Trouble" Clock
The last negative headline involving the Indiana Pacers was:
80 Days ago
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Larry Bird lawsuit? :o

Naptown_Seth
05-19-2008, 03:18 PM
It rarely happens with me seeing as the only people I that I talk Pacers with tend to be NBA fans and at least have a pretty good understanding of our horrible, horrible team.

It happens to me constantly about Manny Ramirez though. And I'm a stubborn idiot who knows I'm right so I go to war with people who think his antics actually hurt the team every time. Very rarely is it a productive conversation and it usually ends up with me getting unnecessarily energetic.
Me - "You bunch of stupid :censored::censored: don't know :censored:ing :censored: about the :censored::censored: Pacers. And if you don't want Kevin Love you can take this :censored: and shove it :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: until :censored: out the garage door."

JayRedd - "That's just Naptown being Naptown."
w00t :buddies:



ps - I would have shoved Shef, Arod and Clemens under a bus to get Ramirez and/or Ortiz on the Yanks. The Red Sox may be dirty, dirty scum with no place in any god's afterlife, but darn it I respect them. ;) I wish I could say the same about half the Yanks right now.

avoidingtheclowns
05-19-2008, 03:20 PM
I wish I could say the same about half the Yanks right now.

oh come on... you've got hank to save the day... all is well in the bronx :D

Roaming Gnome
05-19-2008, 05:09 PM
It's hard to remember all the faces as they are jumping off the band wagon...

But, they will all be back wearing their Pacer Pride on their sleave.

As I help construct Lucas Oil Stadium, I often hear others say...Why is it only going to seat 63,000 for regular season games?

I usually reply with the fact that it was only 4 years ago that Indy could not sell out 9,000 (54,000) fewer seats for a home opener in a season where they were predicted to win 10 games or more. The City gov't and the franchise know that Indy will not support their teams unless they are practacally a guranteed winners. So, why would the city and the Colts want more potentially empty seats only to deal with TV blackouts.

In this whole state, there are only 2 franchises that sell out reguardless of record: IU Basketball and Notre Dame Football. That is why if you want to talk sports with about anyone in this state and never be looked at like you are an idiot for supporting those guys, be a sheep and exclusively follow those 2 teams and you will always have folks to talk to.

Anything else, we'll talk about it only after the media has created some buzz.

-end of irritated rant- :rant:

grace
05-19-2008, 05:33 PM
It's hard to remember all the faces as they are jumping off the band wagon...


http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/images/forumpartyjuly2007/P1010539.jpg

That's me on the left. :wave:

Hicks
05-19-2008, 05:53 PM
You know, I've never noticed this before, but going by looks, RWB could be Lord Helmet's dad. :eek:

Robertmto
05-19-2008, 06:11 PM
You know, I've never noticed this before, but going by looks, RWB could be Lord Helmet's dad. :eek:

:-o agreed

duke dynamite
05-19-2008, 06:30 PM
Gawd, I get made fun of all the time for being a Pacers fan.

Roaming Gnome
05-19-2008, 10:20 PM
*7*

Hicks
05-19-2008, 10:22 PM
*7*

:huh:

Oneal07
05-19-2008, 10:27 PM
Gawd, I get made fun of all the time for being a Pacers fan.

PEople don't understand why I am. And I don't care. I don't try to fight with ignorant people also. it's a waste of time

Gamble1
05-19-2008, 10:31 PM
I was having a brief conversation with someone about the Pacers today, and Shawne Williams came up.

The man I was talking to is often quick to judge, and of course was very anti-Shawne.

So I thought I might at least make myself feel better for getting a recap on the facts that MIGHT make Shawne look better regarding this "friend" of his.....? Thanks.

The whole anti-Pacer thing is so old to me. I think it also has a lot to do with the medias portrayal of them. The guys on 950 trash them all the time and the callers are very misinformed.

Unfortunately for this town not much happens and when a pro athlete slips up there is always guys ready to help form an opinion about the whole team.

Roaming Gnome
05-19-2008, 11:08 PM
You mean 950 am is still on the air?

Those are the last people that need to be clowning anyone considering they'll all be looking for another form of employment very soon if the arbitron rating numbers hold up.

Both 1070 and 1260's local sports shows seem like they are past this "clown the Pacers" mode.