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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Development Path for Young Pacer Players: Practice Squad or D-League?

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  • Development Path for Young Pacer Players: Practice Squad or D-League?

    Recently, I sent a submission to the Pacers' "Suggestion Box" that arugued the validity of sending eligible players down to the Pacers' D-Leauge affiliant (Ft. Wayne Mad-Ants) rather than retain them as part of their practice squad. The obvious goal is to development the young prospect's talents and get him some needed playing time instead of religating him to the bench for upwards of 2-3 seasons.

    In the past, Larry Bird, Rick Carlisle and even recent statements by coach O'Brien have all stood firmly against sending young players to the D-League. Their arugment continues to be that such players stand a better chance of learning the team's style of play while continuing to practice with the team on a regular basis rather than they sending them to the D-League. While that may be true, the other side of the coin is that the young prospect generally sits and sits and sits while waiting his turn...a form of "paying his dues" (I suppose). While I fully understand that this has been the traditional pathway for NBA prospects, in recent years more and more young players have found themselves as key components for their respective teams. (See list of draftees since 2005 for details) My argument, however, isn't that younger players should be excellerated into the NBA landscape just for cause, but rather that their development need not rest solely on workouts in the practice gym.

    One case study could be how the Lakers used the D-League to their advantage when they sent their young prospect, Jordan Farmar, down to their D-League affiliate multiple times during the 2006-2007 seasaon. Farmar has gone on to become a crucial part of the Lakers' success this year. A more noticably example can be found in the Raptors' Jamario Moon who has become the poster child for D-League success.

    Granted, most of the up-and-coming "All-Stars of the near future" have been thrust into their key roles moreso out of necessity than by their God given talents alone, i.e., Kevin Durant (or more noticabley LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony, draft picks from five years ago who were immediate starters for their respective teams). But that shouldn't deter teams from using every tool at their disposal to develop the talent of their young prospects in order to make their team more competitive. To that, their only candidates for the D-League headed into next season would be their two draft picks.

    (Corrected Note: The Pacers couldn't send Stephen Graham to the D-League last year because he was on his 3rd season in the NBA. Under NBDL rules an NBA team can only assign (up to) two first or second year players to its affiliated D-League team. For what it's worth, Graham had already nearly 1.5 yrs (much of the 2005-2006 and the 2006-2007 season) w/the Soiux Falls Skyforce where he had a very successful semi-pro career [See Stephen Graham's NBA bio for details]. They could have sent Shawne Williams because he was only in his 2nd NBA season.)

    IMHO, if a junior player is stuck behind a seasoned veteran, I see no reason not to send him to the D-League if he meets eligibility. At the very least it's a body that's not at the team's immediate disposal if needed. (A team can always call-up their assigned player up to 3 times in a single season.) At best, it's a win-win for the team and the player. The team retains a player who gets to hon his skills in game-time situations and the player doesn't feel as if he's a "tag-along" merely bidding his time. The only hitch I see is if the D-League affiliant isn't coaching your team's playing style he's liable to pick up some habits that become alittle hard to break, but overall I think it's prudent to develop talent in every way possible. And since the D-League has been established as the NBA's minor league, why not take full advantage of it to position your team in such a way as to give it the best competitive advantage at it's disposal?

    (Thanks, Will Galen for correcting me.)
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 05-14-2008, 03:45 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Development Path for Young Pacer Players: Practice Squad or D-League?

    They can't send Shawn, he's now been with the Pacers for two years. Graham now has 3 years of experience. Where you see 'Years' on the Pacers roster, that means how many years they have completed. It never takes into account the currant year.
    Last edited by Will Galen; 05-14-2008, 02:19 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: Development Path for Young Pacer Players: Practice Squad or D-League?

      The unasked question, of course, is does anyone believe Williams, Harrison, Granger and others former young Pacers over the years could have benefited more from going to the D-League or do you agree w/TPTB to keep them as "tag-a-longs" w/the practice squads while warming the bench?

      (Next time I'll start such a thread as a poll...sorry 'bout that.)

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      • #4
        Re: Development Path for Young Pacer Players: Practice Squad or D-League?

        I guess it would depend on the player. Say we get someone really raw in the 2ed round that looks like they will be a player. I could see sending them down to get the experience.

        Otherwise it's probably best to keep players with the club since they would learn a lot in practice.

        I think I would send them down for about fifteen games and then call them up to see how much they've learned, then send them down again.

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        • #5
          Re: Development Path for Young Pacer Players: Practice Squad or D-League?

          For me it would really depend on the player's background, i.e., yrs of NBA/semi-pro basketball experience, as well as how the player was acquired, i.e., through the draft or walk-on Summer Leage/Training Camp tryout. Obviously, if the player was acquired through a trade or free agency, there would be little reason to send him to the D-League as odds are he'd already have some NBA experience and would probably be over the 2-yr limit to go down to the minors anyway. But if he came through the draft, was a walk-on or even came from overseas, I'd give serious consideration for sending such players to the D-League just so that'd get some playing time.

          Players from overseas I'd look at very closely because in a way they've paid their dues just in another basketball forum. But when you consider how players like Sarunus, whom I still think wasn't given enough of a chance here, didn't quite cut it, I probably would have sent him down just so he could get a grasp on the fundamentals of the NBA game even at its minor league level. IMO, such players would probably acclaimate to the NBA game faster if they had NBA-type exposure. What better way for them to get such exposure before placing them out on the big stage than to send them to the minors? But again, it really depends on the player's talent and maturity level. A guy like LeBron, for example, was thrust into the spotlight early out of necessity. Five years later, he's having tremendous success. Still, what could he have been like today had he spent a year down in the minors? Would his development have come faster or did he benefit more from staying with the team that drafted him?

          We'll never know, of course, but my vote is to use the D-League to your team's advantage especially if the minor league team is playing a similar style as your organization and the player is talented enough but is stuck behind a veteran player. The thing that troubles me about the Pacers non-use of their D-League affiliate is they're not taking advantage of it at all and it's practically right up the street from them...metaphorically speaking. Since it's inception, the Pacers haven't sent any of their young players to the minors. What's the point of having access to this developmental tool if you're not going to use it?
          Last edited by NuffSaid; 05-14-2008, 05:24 PM.

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          • #6
            Re: Development Path for Young Pacer Players: Practice Squad or D-League?

            I think that we could have sent our younsters to the NBDL during long road trips.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Development Path for Young Pacer Players: Practice Squad or D-League?

              The Spurs have used the D-League for guys such as White and the guy they brought over from France. I think they need to expand the number of years a player can be there if they really expect it to be a true minor league system though.

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              • #8
                Re: Development Path for Young Pacer Players: Practice Squad or D-League?

                We've sent Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson to the NBDL in the past, and we currently have Cheick Samb there now. I'm very pleased with how players develop in the minors.

                It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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                • #9
                  Re: Development Path for Young Pacer Players: Practice Squad or D-League?

                  The fact that we refuse to use the D league is always a spot of contention for me.

                  Ok, I get the fact that the coach's feel that they need to "teach" the young players and that they can get a better feeling for them with the active squad.

                  However the true problem is like has been pointed out above, there are so many stretches during the season that we can't practice or do nothing but shootarounds that you have to wonder if maybe just maybe some actual game experiance wouldn't help?


                  Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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                  • #10
                    Re: Development Path for Young Pacer Players: Practice Squad or D-League?

                    Originally posted by Kstat View Post
                    We've sent Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson to the NBDL in the past, and we currently have Cheick Samb there now. I'm very pleased with how players develop in the minors.
                    I loved the game where Amir Johnson, Samb, and Maxiell owned the Lakers. There were blocks left and right. Pistons are deeper than people think, to where their third string could probably eek out a spot in the Eastern playoffs.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Development Path for Young Pacer Players: Practice Squad or D-League?

                      I like the D-League in principle, but last year wasn't a good year for us to use it. The only one that we could have sent was Shawne, and he was getting minutes in our rotation. Imagine the response if Shawne goes to the D-League, and Danny gets hurt, so we bring up Shawne, who either hits the wall or has to learn the entire offense.

                      I think it's only useful guys who are going to rack up a ton of DNPs and are major projects.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Development Path for Young Pacer Players: Practice Squad or D-League?

                        While Shawne was often lost on offense/defense, he certainly proved that physically he was ready to play at the NBA level, even making significant contributions in both seasons at times. I'd say he was above D-League level.

                        Graham would have been more the type considering his PT and rotation status, but obviously couldn't. Diener too, but they desperately needed him and he wasn't eligible anyway. I think running a show with great success would have boosted TDs confidence and general awareness a bit more, but in the end he seemed to recover after a few rough months in Indy.

                        Right now the Pacers D-League is called "Europe". Those 2 are who you'd put in the DL if they were over here.

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