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croz24
05-14-2008, 01:37 AM
when granger's career is said and done, will he end up as being better than sidney moncrief? discuss...

Will Galen
05-14-2008, 01:46 AM
when granger's career is said and done, will he end up as being better than sidney moncrief? discuss...

Moncrief Career Statistics
<table width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td align="center">G</td> <td align="center">FG%</td> <td align="center">3PFG%</td><!--remove if necessary--> <td align="center">FT%</td> <td align="center">Rebs</td> <td align="center">RPG</td> <td align="center">Asts</td> <td align="center">APG</td> <td align="center">Stls</td><!--remove if necessary--> <td align="center">Blks</td><!--remove if necessary--> <td align="center">Pts</td> <td align="center">PPG</td> </tr> <!--End of Header--> <!--Copy this for Moncrief, Sidney data--> <tr> <td align="center">767</td> <td align="center">.502</td> <td align="center">.284</td><!--remove if necessary--> <td align="center">.831</td> <td align="center">3,575</td> <td align="center">4.7</td> <td align="center">2,793</td> <td align="center">3.6</td> <td align="center">924</td><!--remove if necessary--> <td align="center">226</td><!--remove if necessary--> <td align="center">11,931</td> <td align="center">15.6</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="742"><tbody><tr><td width="2">http://www.nba.com/media/homepage/stats_header_rt.gif</td> <td class="gSGSectionTitleStatsGrid" width="738">Granger

</td> <td width="2">http://www.nba.com/media/homepage/stats_header_lft.gif</td> </tr></tbody></table> <!-- begin preseason if --> <table class="playerStatTable careerAvg" border="1" bordercolor="#cccccc" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="title"> <td class="year">Season</td> <td class="team">Team</td> <td>G</td> <td>GS</td> <td>MPG</td> <td>FG%</td> <td>3p%</td> <td>FT%</td> <td>OFF</td> <td>DEF</td> <td>RPG</td> <td>APG</td> <td>SPG</td> <td>BPG</td> <td>TO</td> <td>PF</td> <td>PPG</td> </tr> <tr class="odd"> <td class="yr">07-08</td> <td class="tm">IND</td> <td>80</td> <td>80</td> <td>36.0</td> <td>0.446</td> <td>0.404</td> <td>0.852</td> <td>1.2</td> <td>4.9</td> <td>6.1</td> <td>2.1</td> <td>1.2</td> <td>1.0</td> <td>2.14</td> <td>3.60</td> <td>19.6</td> </tr> <tr class="career"> <td class="col_1">Career</td> <td class="col_2"> </td> <td>240</td> <td>154</td> <td>30.9</td> <td>0.453</td> <td>0.387</td> <td>0.821</td> <td>1.4</td> <td>3.8</td> <td>5.2</td> <td>1.5</td> <td>0.9</td> <td>0.8</td> <td>1.61</td> <td>3.10</td> <td>13.7</td></tr></tbody></table>
Looking at the stats I would say yes.

duke dynamite
05-14-2008, 01:57 AM
Sidney also had a pretty decent tenure. I would have to see how long Danny would remain a player in the league to determine this.

d_c
05-14-2008, 03:01 AM
Moncrief Career Statistics
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</td></tr></tbody></table>Looking at the stats I would say yes.

Well, in addition to those statistics, here are some of Sidney Moncrief's humble accomplishments in the league that you might want to consider.


5 Time all-star
1 Time All NBA 1st Team
4 Time All NBA 2nd Team
2 Time Defensive Player of the Year (as a 6'3" SG)
4 Time All NBA Defense 1st Team
1 Time All NBA Defensive 2nd Team
Has his jersey retired

If Danny Granger wants to have a better career than Sidney Moncrief, he better get busy. Like right now.

Will Galen
05-14-2008, 03:09 AM
Well, in addition to those statistics, here are some of Sidney Moncrief's humble accomplishments in the league that you might want to consider.


5 Time all-star
1 Time All NBA 1st Team
4 Time All NBA 2nd Team
2 Time Defensive Player of the Year (as a 6'3" SG)
4 Time All NBA Defense 1st Team
1 Time All NBA Defensive 2nd Team
Has his jersey retired

If Danny Granger wants to have a better career than Sidney Moncrief, he better get busy. Like right now.

I think not. It's 3:07 in the morning.

d_c
05-14-2008, 03:14 AM
I think not. It's 3:07 in the morning.

Not too late to be looking up at some game tape. Hey, DPOY award. Do you want it or what?

croz24
05-14-2008, 03:33 AM
another impressive stat for moncrief...as the leader of the bucks in the 1980s, moncrief led milwaukee to the 3rd highest win % in the '80s behind only los angeles and boston. he also made the playoffs in each of his 11 years in the league...

Peck
05-14-2008, 03:35 AM
I would be thrilled to death if Danny had the career the Moncrief did.

I am not sure if you were trying to get a slam in on Sydney or not, but he was a hell of a player. Always gave us fits.

maragin
05-14-2008, 04:34 AM
Well, in addition to those statistics, here are some of Sidney Moncrief's humble accomplishments in the league that you might want to consider.


5 Time all-star
1 Time All NBA 1st Team
4 Time All NBA 2nd Team
2 Time Defensive Player of the Year (as a 6'3" SG)
4 Time All NBA Defense 1st Team
1 Time All NBA Defensive 2nd Team
Has his jersey retired

If Danny Granger wants to have a better career than Sidney Moncrief, he better get busy. Like right now.


I'd be proud if Danny got half of that. A quarter even.

tdubb03
05-14-2008, 05:57 AM
I never saw much of Moncrief, but aren't they completely different types of players?

Putnam
05-14-2008, 07:57 AM
I think not. It's 3:07 in the morning.


:lol2:

That's my "post more often" vote in action. Well, done, Will!

Ownagedood
05-14-2008, 12:14 PM
Seeing as i have no clue who that is.. Ya.

SycamoreKen
05-14-2008, 12:21 PM
I voted no because there was no 'Maybe" choice.

Naptown_Seth
05-14-2008, 12:46 PM
Well the key is defense isn't it? I mean one point in all this is that if Danny is PRODUCING like previous all-stars and all-NBA guys then why isn't he getting the notice?

Is it fair that Danny would be an all-star for the 1982 Bucks but not the crappy 2007 Pacers? Or is the reason he's not there simply his defense?

If it's about the defense then I think most of us agree that at times this is the highlight of his game and that if he puts it together he can be an elite defender.

If some of this is about the popularity contest and recognition for being PART of a winning team then it makes those awards moot points in this discussion.

If Danny is on a winning team he could benefit in popularity votes. That would NOT change the caliber of play he was bringing to the table.

Hands up, who thinks that if you traded Moncrief for Danny this past season that the Pacers would have won 42 games and than Moncrief would have made the all-star team? Exactly.

How about we bring in the rest of those Bucks teams for the rest of the Pacers and then see how Danny looks.

JayRedd
05-14-2008, 01:10 PM
Are we just picking names out of a hat now? People actually have legitimate opinions about a Milwaukee Buck from 20 years ago that they probably saw play less than 20 times in his career?

Can we do Downtown Freddie Brown next?

d_c
05-14-2008, 01:51 PM
Are we just picking names out of a hat now?

It would appear so.

Will Galen
05-14-2008, 02:04 PM
Are we just picking names out of a hat now? People actually have legitimate opinions about a Milwaukee Buck from 20 years ago that they probably saw play less than 20 times in his career?

Can we do Downtown Freddie Brown next?

I remember watching George Mikan play.

Putnam
05-14-2008, 02:18 PM
We're only just beginning.

After comparing Granger to every other NBA player at every stage in his (or her) career, we can expand this topic to greater abstractions:

Would you trade Granger for a 2008 Shelby Mustang? If you only got to keep it 3 months?

Would you trade Granger for another chance at bat in the last inning of that company softball game against those jerks from that other division of the company?

Would you take Granger at small forward, playing with the rest of the 92 Bulls, or would you rather have Dave Mustain from Megadeth playing lead guitar with Anthrax?

Would you trade Granger for a lifetime supply of pure S14Cu3N12?

Would you trade Granger for what is behind the curtain where lovely Carol Merrill is standing?

wooolus
05-14-2008, 02:36 PM
Would you trade Granger for a lifetime supply of pure S14Cu3N12?


My only question is what the hell is S14Cu3N12 and where can I get it?

Will Galen
05-14-2008, 02:38 PM
My thoughts are Granger has been compared to Pippen and at this point in his career he has similar stats. So the question you have to ask yourself is do you feel lucky punk . . . er . . . ah . . . Sorry too many Clint Eastwood movies and that just seemed to go there. :laugh:

Ah where was I . . . so the questions you have to ask yourself is do you think Pippen was better than Moncrief? And do you think Granger will continue to have stats like Pippen's?

dohman
05-14-2008, 02:39 PM
it really all depends if he remains a pacer over his career. IF he does then yeah of course. If not then nope.. :)

d_c
05-14-2008, 02:42 PM
Ah where was I . . . so the questions you have to ask yourself is do you think Pippen was better than Moncrief? And do you think Granger will continue to have stats like Pippen's?

Pippen was better than Moncrief.

But Paul Pierce has better numbers than Pippen. Is he better than Pippen?

Is Granger better than Joe Dumars, who has somewhat similar numbers to Moncrief?

Will Galen
05-14-2008, 03:01 PM
Is Granger better than Joe Dumars, who has somewhat similar numbers to Moncrief?

Of course he is. I wouldn't think you would even ask such a question. Dumars is an old man. :devil:

croz24
05-14-2008, 03:11 PM
i use moncrief because i view him as granger's absolute ceiling as a player. other than the height difference, they were similar types of players. they both are do it all types of players. i refuse to use gervin or pippen. granger will NEVER become the player those two were. i bet you though, many on here would still vote granger will end up better.

i think it's funny that i'm getting knocked for starting a poll (trying to gauge how much HOMERISM is truly on this board) by using one of the great sgs of all time to compare granger to. it's ok if i use dr. j versus vince carter, wilt versus shaq, nash versus cousy, mj versus kobe. but because i use the great sidney moncrief, the poll suddenly loses credibility?

moncrief was the #2 sg in the 80s behind only mj. as was already stated, 2-time dpoy, 5 time nba all-star, 5-time all nba, 5-time all defensive team, leader of the team with the 3rd highest win % in the 1980s (considered by most as the best decade ever for basketball) behind only boston and los angeles, made the playoffs in each of his 11 nba seasons, and has his jersey retired. fought through a degenerative knee injury throughout his career, yet still found the time to lock up mj. "When you play against Moncrief, you're in for a night of all-around basketball. He'll hound you everywhere you go, both ends of the court. You just expect it."

IF granger wants to surpass moncrief as a player, or even come close, he has a lot of work to do. can he do it? sure. as i said, i feel moncrief is granger's ceiling, but everything will have to go granger's way the next 10 years for that to happen. and i mean everything.

just as i figured, this poll is overwhelmingly in favor of granger thus far. SHOCKING.

esabyrn333
05-14-2008, 03:15 PM
I voted yes...honestly didn't know who the guy was. I'm 31 and I started watching basketball attentively when we picked Reggie. After reading this guys accomplishments I'd change my vote but would love it if Danny got half of those accomplishments.

beast23
05-14-2008, 03:36 PM
What's up with this comparision anyway?

It's comparing Apples to Oranges since Danny is primarily an SF and you compare him to a SG.

Irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

Perhaps we should compare Roger Brown to Bob Lanier?

croz24
05-14-2008, 04:51 PM
the two are very similar in how they play the game and moncrief is one of the few greats granger could actually, maybe, possibly match in terms of career accomplishments...i guess with your logic, we can't compare duncan to ewing or shaq or wilt. we can't compare bird to garnett. can't compare jordan to dr. j. can't compare magic to lebron. can't compare wade to zeke...i'm comparing the two as far as what types of players they are/were, how they approached the game, and the chance granger has of reaching moncrief's talent/accomplishments. fair comparison imo...

Putnam
05-14-2008, 05:32 PM
How about....

Granger....but with Calbert Cheaney's dribbling abilities, plus $5,000 (in 1975 dollars) to spend on a date with a youthful Carol Burnett, with the stipulation that you have to have her home by 1:00am, and 50% of the film rights and an 80/20 plan for vision and dental, versus Mugsey Bogues at his prime, but with Matthew McConnaghey's pecs, a bowl of Ben and Jerry's Cherry Garcia ice cream, and a sponsorship deal from Nike, at the peak of his career -- including his college years -- but assuming he was playing with Arenas, and free oil changes for as long as you own the car?

'Cause I'm going with Mugsey on that one!


(I won't do this again. I suppose the point is made.)

Hoop
05-14-2008, 05:36 PM
What's up with this comparision anyway?

It's comparing Apples to Oranges since Danny is primarily an SF and you compare him to a SG.

Irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

Perhaps we should compare Roger Brown to Bob Lanier?
Exactly!

JayRedd
05-14-2008, 07:33 PM
Muggsy.


YaPzdodcliU

Shade
05-14-2008, 08:09 PM
Are we just picking names out of a hat now? People actually have legitimate opinions about a Milwaukee Buck from 20 years ago that they probably saw play less than 20 times in his career?

Can we do Downtown Freddie Brown next?

QFT

Is there a point to this thread?

Arcadian
05-14-2008, 08:11 PM
The thread brought us a good CYE clip.

Danny will never be like or as good as Moncrief.

Anthem
05-14-2008, 10:04 PM
QFT

Is there a point to this thread?
You mean besides getting me an infraction?

Naptown_Seth
05-15-2008, 01:06 PM
Are we just picking names out of a hat now? People actually have legitimate opinions about a Milwaukee Buck from 20 years ago that they probably saw play less than 20 times in his career?

Can we do Downtown Freddie Brown next?
I wish I were that young.

The thing with the Bucks was that they were boring to people. Steady as heck but no Bird, no Magic, not even J or Malone. So they sort of got set aside as "that's nice....anyway". It's funny to think about people not knowing/remembering the old Bulls right on par with the Pacers, doormats looking up at the Bucks in the Central.


I like the comparison to Dumars though, pretty similar to Sidney.




You mean besides getting me an infraction?
Stop butting in on my Most Offensive action.

Shade
05-15-2008, 01:18 PM
i use moncrief because i view him as granger's absolute ceiling as a player. other than the height difference, they were similar types of players. they both are do it all types of players. i refuse to use gervin or pippen. granger will NEVER become the player those two were. i bet you though, many on here would still vote granger will end up better.

i think it's funny that i'm getting knocked for starting a poll (trying to gauge how much HOMERISM is truly on this board) by using one of the great sgs of all time to compare granger to. it's ok if i use dr. j versus vince carter, wilt versus shaq, nash versus cousy, mj versus kobe. but because i use the great sidney moncrief, the poll suddenly loses credibility?

moncrief was the #2 sg in the 80s behind only mj. as was already stated, 2-time dpoy, 5 time nba all-star, 5-time all nba, 5-time all defensive team, leader of the team with the 3rd highest win % in the 1980s (considered by most as the best decade ever for basketball) behind only boston and los angeles, made the playoffs in each of his 11 nba seasons, and has his jersey retired. fought through a degenerative knee injury throughout his career, yet still found the time to lock up mj. "When you play against Moncrief, you're in for a night of all-around basketball. He'll hound you everywhere you go, both ends of the court. You just expect it."

IF granger wants to surpass moncrief as a player, or even come close, he has a lot of work to do. can he do it? sure. as i said, i feel moncrief is granger's ceiling, but everything will have to go granger's way the next 10 years for that to happen. and i mean everything.

just as i figured, this poll is overwhelmingly in favor of granger thus far. SHOCKING.

I apologize if I came off as a bit hostile in questioning the validity of this comparison, but I really don't see Moncrief and Granger as similar enough players to compare in this way.

Why do you dislike Granger so much, anyway? And how is saying "he will never be as good as one of the better SGs in NBA history" translate to "he's a bum that we should trade ASAP?"

I think most of us realize that Danny isn't a franchise player, but could be a very solid #2 (or an outstanding #3). He was a #17 pick, and so far he's well exceeding expectations. What's wrong with that? And, like it or not, he is currently the best player on this team.

Speed
05-15-2008, 01:48 PM
I said yes out of spite.

croz24
05-16-2008, 02:30 AM
shade - find me ONE post where i said i disliked granger or insinuated he was a bum...i like danny and think he was a great pick when we drafted him. we drafted him to be the #3 option behind jo and ron which would have suited his game and his position on the team perfectly. however, certain events changed that and the pacers need to adjust accordingly imo.

Hoop
05-17-2008, 06:54 PM
the two are very similar in how they play the game and moncrief is one of the few greats granger could actually, maybe, possibly match in terms of career accomplishments...i guess with your logic, we can't compare duncan to ewing or shaq or wilt. we can't compare bird to garnett. can't compare jordan to dr. j. can't compare magic to lebron. can't compare wade to zeke...i'm comparing the two as far as what types of players they are/were, how they approached the game, and the chance granger has of reaching moncrief's talent/accomplishments. fair comparison imo...
You couldn't be more wrong if you said Granger's game was similar to Mark Eaton's. Danny's twice the 3 point shooter Moncrief was. Moncrief only hit 110 3-pters in 11 seasons at 28%. Granger has hit 311 in 3 seasons at 39%. They are totally different type players, but offensively and defensively. Moncrief averaged twice the amount of assists. Moncreif was 6'3-4", Granger is 6'8" a natural SF playing out of position. Granger is a good shot blocker, 202 in 3 years, Moncrief had only 226 in 11 seasons.

Did you ever even see Moncrief play? I did.

Robertmto
05-18-2008, 02:28 AM
It's comparing Apples to Oranges since Danny is primarily an SF and you compare him to a SG.

Irrelevant as far as I'm concerned

same position, both wings