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View Full Version : Pot. Do you care?



OakMoses
05-06-2008, 12:56 PM
All the Josh Howard talk has brought this to the front of my mind lately.

Here's the scenario:

The Pacers are a normal basketball team. Their attendance is average. Their a playoff caliber team but not a true championship contender. Their players have not run afoul of the law on a regular basis. A major player on their team, who has no history of misconduct and has failed no drug tests, admits to occasionally smoking pot during the offseason.

Do you care?

kester99
05-06-2008, 01:01 PM
'During the offseason' is the operative phrase for me.

Trader Joe
05-06-2008, 01:03 PM
Interesting question.

I don't smoke. I don't get the appeal behind it and never have, but I hang out with people who do. Many of them have 3.8 or higher GPAs in the Kelley school and are extremely productive members of society. So I guess my answer would be, no.

Of course, I think the deicision to smoke anything is a questionable one when you are a professional athlete and your lungs are such an important part of your career.

Since86
05-06-2008, 01:04 PM
I voted yes.

If you're a regular guy off the street, I could care less, but NBA players are not normal people.

They're an investment, to be frank. Owners invest in their ability to play basketball, and any thing that has a good chance of hindering that ability should be avoided if possible.

Pot is illegal, you get busted by the cops and you see legal ramifications. Get busted enough times, or with enough of an amount and you could see jail time. Failing drug tests can get you suspended, hard to play when you're suspended or in jail, or both at the same time.

I won't even get into the health risks of it.

Yes I understand there is associated risk with all activities. Driving could end someone's career. But you want to try and minimize the chance, and getting high does what exactly? I've smoked, and I drink. Neither are worth more than making millions IMHO.

rexnom
05-06-2008, 01:07 PM
It shows poor judgment. First of all, why would you smoke pot as an NBA player in the first place? As Since86 said, it's just not a good decision career-wise. Second, if you do, why the hell would you admit it? Especially since you only do it in the offseason? I'm pretty sure most players in the NBA smoke pot. That's fine. Just don't put yourself or your team in jeopardy by doing it when you're on the job or preparing for it or by talking about it (Josh Howard, David Harrison, Shawne Williams).

Will Galen
05-06-2008, 01:08 PM
I voted yes.

If you're a regular guy off the street, I could care less, but NBA players are not normal people.

They're an investment, to be frank. Owners invest in their ability to play basketball, and any thing that has a good chance of hindering that ability should be avoided if possible.

Pot is illegal, you get busted by the cops and you see legal ramifications. Get busted enough times, or with enough of an amount and you could see jail time. Failing drug tests can get you suspended, hard to play when you're suspended or in jail, or both at the same time.

I won't even get into the health risks of it.

Yes I understand there is associated risk with all activities. Driving could end someone's career. But you want to try and minimize the chance, and getting high does what exactly? I've smoked, and I drink. Neither are worth more than making millions IMHO.

What he said, plus it's dumb to admit to doing something illegal. Do we want players that dumb? I don't.

OakMoses
05-06-2008, 01:16 PM
What he said, plus it's dumb to admit to doing something illegal. Do we want players that dumb? I don't.

Maybe this should be another poll, maybe not. It's total conjecture for most of the guys. How many current Pacers do you think have smoked since coming into the league?

I'd be willing to bet it's over 50%.

Also, with the Josh Howard situation, why aren't more people coming down on Michael Irvin for asking the question in the first place? You're interviewing a prominent NBA basketball player during a playoff series, and you can't come up with a better question to ask than "Do you smoke pot in the offseason?" Granted it would have been better for Howard to say, "That's a stupid question. I'm not going to answer it", but is that really the best Irvin could do?

esabyrn333
05-06-2008, 01:41 PM
I personally think the stuff should be legal. I don't care who smokes. BUT I do have a 12 year old son that thinks the world of these guys. The last thing I want is my only child who is very impressionable thinking that its cool to smoke weed and if Josh Howard does it...Its O.K. for him to...Dad must not know what he is talking about because this guy does it and he makes millions of dollars in the NBA.

IMO This guy just came out and told kids all over Dallas that its OK to get high this is not something I want associated around my team.

AesopRockOn
05-06-2008, 01:45 PM
Can he ball?

esabyrn333
05-06-2008, 01:47 PM
Can he ball?


My son or Howard?

Anthem
05-06-2008, 01:57 PM
Meh. Define "care." I'm not morally outraged, but I think it's pretty stupid to do something that's both illegal and against the rules when you're in a $10mil/year career. And I don't want stupid players.

esabyrn333
05-06-2008, 01:59 PM
Maybe we can ship them David Harrison so he can have a buddy to toke it up with all offseason

Unclebuck
05-06-2008, 02:07 PM
Does anyone really believe that he only uses in the offseason? I certainly do not believe that at all.

Even if he is telling the truth, yes I still care. I would not knowingly acquire someone who I knew used Pot.

AesopRockOn
05-06-2008, 02:09 PM
My son or Howard?

I figured we were just talking about some hypothetical player that was just based on the JH situation. THe original post just said the guy was a major part of our team (right now, Diener is a major part of the team). So I was wondering if the burner could light it up (in the b-ball sense).

No disrespect to your boy of course. :)

grace
05-06-2008, 02:30 PM
Yes I care for a whole lot of reasons. Here are some of them.

1. Smoking pot is illegal. Just because he hasn't been caught doesn't mean he won't.

2. If he's dumb enough to admit that he smokes pot I don't want him on the team.

Shade
05-06-2008, 02:36 PM
Interesting question.

I don't smoke. I don't get the appeal behind it and never have, but I hang out with people who do. Many of them have 3.8 or higher GPAs in the Kelley school and are extremely productive members of society. So I guess my answer would be, no.

Of course, I think the deicision to smoke anything is a questionable one when you are a professional athlete and your lungs are such an important part of your career.

I'm going to co-sign this.

Twes
05-06-2008, 02:51 PM
Smoking pot doesn't make you a better athlete.

There's plenty about it that can be a detriment.

Let's face it a lot of guys can perform at a high level while smoking pot but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be at an even higher level without.

It's a given that they need to excercise judgement (I agree with those who have said that announcing you smoke pot is very poor judgement.)

AT the end of the day I don't want to know what they do in their free time. If you can smoke pot, not get caught and produce on the court I guess that's a great life for you. Nice job.

But if your production falls off, your development is halted, your work ethic suffers or god forbid you get arrested and suspended then don't expect us to feel sorry for you when the wrath of the world comes down on you.

YOU will be the j ack@ss that screwed up the life most all of us can only dream of.

Brian
05-06-2008, 03:04 PM
Does anyone really believe that he only uses in the offseason? I certainly do not believe that at all.

Even if he is telling the truth, yes I still care. I would not knowingly acquire someone who I knew used Pot.

It was well known that LB smoked pot,so if we had a chance to trade for Bird back in the 88 season we will say,you wouldve not traded for him considering knowing he smoked pot?.

Or would you trade for him just because he was Larry Bird?.

Unclebuck
05-06-2008, 03:17 PM
It was well known that LB smoked pot,so if we had a chance to trade for Bird back in the 88 season we will say,you wouldve not traded for him considering knowing he smoked pot?.

Or would you trade for him just because he was Larry Bird?.

By '88 Bird was declining.

Would I take Lebron James or Chris Paul if they admitted what Josh Howard admitted. I would certainly investigate their background a lot closer than I normally would. But I would not rule taking either of them. I'll gamble on a James or Paul, but not on a Josh Howard. He isn't good enough to make the gamble worth it.

So am I saying - "as long as the player is good enough, who cares what they do in their personal life" - Not saying that, but I'll be much more liable to gamble on a great player than an average starter.

efx
05-06-2008, 03:45 PM
Doesn't matter to me really.

OakMoses
05-06-2008, 03:58 PM
Here's a list of guys who've been associated with marijuana in some way.

Josh Howard
Damon Stoudamire
Allen Iverson
Marcus Camby
Isaiah Rider
David Harrison
Jamaal Tinsley
Rasheed Wallace
Carmelo Anthony
Shawne Williams
Stephen Jackson
Zach Randolph
Robert Parish
Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
Chris Webber
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Bill Walton

It took me about 5 minutes on Google to find those names.

AesopRockOn
05-06-2008, 04:18 PM
Bill Walton

:eek:

Hicks
05-06-2008, 04:23 PM
I wish the poll options were:

Yes - At all
Yes - If during the season
No - At all

I'd have voted "B" in that case. Generally I still don't care, or rather I wouldn't if not for the fact that he's jeopardizing my team by doing so during the season. If the NBA didn't care, I wouldn't.

Hicks
05-06-2008, 04:26 PM
Does anyone really believe that he only uses in the offseason? I certainly do not believe that at all.

Even if he is telling the truth, yes I still care. I would not knowingly acquire someone who I knew used Pot.

SINCE THIS APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN CONFUSING TO SOME, LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR: I HAVE HEARD OR READ IN THE PAST THAT THE FOLLOWING PEOPLE HAVE OR DO SMOKE POT. I PERSONALLY DON'T CARE THAT THEY DO (IF THEY DO). I'M THROWING IT OUT THERE TO PEOPLE WHO WOULD HESITATE TO BRING A PLAYER ONTO THIS TEAM IN THE NAME OF THEIR SMOKING HABITS BECAUSE SOME OF THESE PLAYERS ARE OR WERE LIKED QUITE A BIT BY THE MAJORITY OF THE FAN BASE.

http://www.nfimoneybus.org/images/heroes/JermaineONeal.jpg

http://www.clemson.edu/clemsonworld/Fall2000/gifs/pacer.gif

http://www.nba.com/media/act_jamaal_tinsley.jpg

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/images/basketball/nba/players/pacers/261.jpg

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/9/95/Act_marquis_daniels.jpg

And I'm sure they're not alone.

Justin Tyme
05-06-2008, 04:32 PM
The bottom line is, no matter how an individual feels in regards to this issue, smoking pot is illegal.

Yes, it makes a difference to me. Plus, the Pacers can't afford the bad PR and another negative hit image wise.

PaceBalls
05-06-2008, 04:34 PM
I wanna see guys play basketball, not worry about whether or not they smoke a little nothern lights #5.

What is up with people trying to control other peoples behavior when it in no way effects them. Like them smoking weed somehow degrades your life. It is this screwed up mentality that does more harm to society than good. Other people pushing their messed up moral code and ideas of proper behavior on other people they don't even know. And we are talking about ganja. Which is proven to be safer than alcholol and cigarettes. /boggle

ThA HoyA
05-06-2008, 04:35 PM
:eek:



That explains it all for bill walton:laugh:

Naptown_Seth
05-06-2008, 04:37 PM
What he said, plus it's dumb to admit to doing something illegal. Do we want players that dumb? I don't.
The key for me is to ask if the legality of it is a wise/moral ruling? Let's say that it's illegal for black players to stay in the same hotel. Is a player "dumb" for taking an illegal stand on that issue?

So it's got nothing to do with it being illegal and everything to do with people seeing that illegal status as either valid or not worth fighting about. However since MANY people are somewhat angered regarding the acceptance of alcohol vs pot considering just how dangerous alcohol is, I'd say there are valid reasons to stand up for the issue.

If you thought pot prosecutions were way out of control, over the top and a total waste of government spending you might just admire public figures that were willing to stand up for it. The goal being a change in legal status of the issue.


Now don't flip out that pot is not civil rights. No kidding. Hey, gun ownership isn't civil rights either. In fact that point is the most outrageous of them all given the amount of time, money and personal freedoms that are put at risk in order to enforce pot laws.

It's that very over aggressive enforcement for what would seem to be a not important issue that demands someone taking a stand. It's not always the value of the goal itself, sometimes it's the value put against the issue that adds weight to it.



I also realize plenty of guys aren't taking a stand, they just like doing it. But for a player to speak out, that helps set the tone that perhaps the stigma has been overblown...maybe even to meet someone else's agenda (but no one is going to say tabacco and alcohol lobbies care at all about this issue ;) ).

Maybe if enough "normal" people said "I do it and I'm fine, what's the big deal" you might see a change in the law to match the reality. As long as they do the "smart" thing and keep quiet then the images spun from other interests dominate the landscape.



Personally I'm not a drugs guy, even legal ones. I'm also only an occasional drinker.

Since86
05-06-2008, 04:41 PM
I wanna see guys play basketball, not worry about whether or not they smoke a little nothern lights #5.

What is up with people trying to control other peoples behavior when it in no way effects them. Like them smoking weed somehow degrades your life. It is this screwed up mentality that does more harm to society than good. Other people pushing their messed up moral code and ideas of proper behavior on other people they don't even know. And we are talking about ganja. Which is proven to be safer than alcholol and cigarettes. /boggle

Illegal behavior hinders their ability to play basketball. If they're serving a suspension then you can't watch them. They're directly connected.

It's not about controling their lives. It's about expecting them to obey laws, and minimize the chance of them not being able to do their jobs.

EDIT: If it was legal, I wouldn't care, but it's not so I do. This isn't a moral issue, but a legal one.

Seth, it has EVERYTHING to do with it being illegal.

Naptown_Seth
05-06-2008, 04:46 PM
:eek:
Were you being sarcastic? If Walton only smoked pot it would be a minor miracle. He's a deadhead, a best guess might have him on peyote, whippits, a few beers, shrooms and a joint or two at a given concert.

Or he just enjoyed the spinny dancing. ;)



Since86, it WAS illegal for women to vote. Things change. What do you think the world looks like 3 weeks before they change? There are things that in the future will look wrong and we are doing them right now. It could be letting beer be legal, it could be having pot be illegal. The laws reflect the morals of society and if a majority of the society believes in the cause then they should speak up. And furthermore, even if they are still a minority they need to have a say just in case they are in the right ultimately.

What I'm saying is that it's fine if you MORALLY feel that smoking pot is wrong to be against him doing it. But don't hide behind the legality portion. The laws are just the B&W version of our morals, and plenty of them get outdated and must be changed. We wouldn't have amendments if that weren't the case.

If the moral tide is turning on this issue then at some point Howard will be in the right and will have been standing in the right long before others had the guts to do so.

Or he's just a dumb pothead, depends on what you think about the morals of the issue and his reasons for speaking out about it.

Hicks
05-06-2008, 04:47 PM
This probably should be directed to UnPD. However, the root of the question is do Pacers fans care if Pacers players smoke pot. So, for now, I'll leave this be. But if this shifts to just arguing over pot, and not discussing it relative to the Pacers, this is going to be closed.

grace
05-06-2008, 04:52 PM
Oh come on, we haven't argued about put in at least a month. That's got to be some kind of record.

Twes
05-06-2008, 04:54 PM
This forum has really gone to pot.

Hicks
05-06-2008, 05:08 PM
This forum has really gone to pot.

Is this a joke?

idioteque
05-06-2008, 05:36 PM
Illegal behavior hinders their ability to play basketball. If they're serving a suspension then you can't watch them. They're directly connected.



So should players not be allowed to eat fast food or pizza, or even go to bed later than midnight, because that affects the way they play basketball too? A player's ability to play cannot be perfected, they're people, not machines.

I know pot is illegal, but if the chances of you getting caught if you're doing it in the privacy of your own home is miniscule. Yes, pot is illegal, but I percieve being caught with a personal stash of marijuana as only a couple of steps above a jaywalking ticket.

All that being said, if I was the GM of the Pacers I would strongly discourage smoking pot and I would also not acquire a player with a documented history of it. Not because I care, but because the fans care. I would not trade for Josh Howard. So I guess that means I care.

CableKC
05-06-2008, 05:38 PM
Yes, I do care.

idioteque
05-06-2008, 05:40 PM
The bottom line is, no matter how an individual feels in regards to this issue, the Americas are a colony of Great Britain

Fixed ;)


The Pacers can't afford the bad PR and another negative hit image wise.

I agree which is why I am taking your side on this.

Brian
05-06-2008, 05:42 PM
So should players not be allowed to eat fast food or pizza, or even go to bed later than midnight, because that affects the way they play basketball too? A player's ability to play cannot be perfected, they're people, not machines.

I know pot is illegal, but if the chances of you getting caught if you're doing it in the privacy of your own home is miniscule. Yes, pot is illegal, but I percieve being caught with a personal stash of marijuana as only a couple of steps above a jaywalking ticket.

All that being said, if I was the GM of the Pacers I would strongly discourage smoking pot and I would also not acquire a player with a documented history of it. Not because I care, but because the fans care. I would not trade for Josh Howard. So I guess that means I care.



While I have no problem with people who smoke pot,I do have to say that my general feeling about this is that I dont care what someone does in their private life.But show some maturity,I mean who in their right mind would go on the radio a day before a playoff game and tell the world that you smoke pot,offseason or not that was an extremely stupid move on his part.

And some of you may quote the part where I say "who in their right mind" part and make a pothead joke,marijuana had nothing to do with him going on the radio and saying that...immaturity did.

JayRedd
05-06-2008, 06:00 PM
I can't believe I forgot to nominate Brian for Post More Often.

AesopRockOn
05-06-2008, 06:09 PM
Were you being sarcastic?

Maybe, dude.
http://www.coolfer.com/blog/blog/images/walton_bill_hammock.jpg

Anthem
05-06-2008, 06:17 PM
http://www.nfimoneybus.org/images/heroes/JermaineONeal.jpg
Gonna need a link on that one. I've got no problem believing Quis and Tins toke during the season, but as far as I recall Jermaine's never been accused of recreational drug use.

Sollozzo
05-06-2008, 06:32 PM
http://www.nfimoneybus.org/images/heroes/JermaineONeal.jpg

http://www.clemson.edu/clemsonworld/Fall2000/gifs/pacer.gif

http://www.nba.com/media/act_jamaal_tinsley.jpg

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/images/basketball/nba/players/pacers/261.jpg

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/9/95/Act_marquis_daniels.jpg

And I'm sure they're not alone.


Do you mind posting a legitimate source for these? It's a tad reckless to throw some of these guys out there, especially O'Neal and Double D (unless I've really missed something).

Doesn't seem very classy on a Pacers forum to accuse Pacers players of drug use without posting any documentation whatsoever to support your claim.

Hicks
05-06-2008, 06:48 PM
It's not like I'm gonna whip a Wikipedia link at you, it's word of mouth, but not mouths I tend to doubt. I've also seen it mentioned here on occasion.

TMJ31
05-06-2008, 06:50 PM
I voted yes, because it sets a bad example firstly.

But also- at the end of the day, it is illegal and cannot in ANY way have a positive connotation towards the player and their team.

Trader Joe
05-06-2008, 06:53 PM
http://www.nfimoneybus.org/images/heroes/JermaineONeal.jpg

http://www.clemson.edu/clemsonworld/Fall2000/gifs/pacer.gif

http://www.nba.com/media/act_jamaal_tinsley.jpg

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/images/basketball/nba/players/pacers/261.jpg

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/9/95/Act_marquis_daniels.jpg

And I'm sure they're not alone.

Did I miss something when did JO get in trouble with pot? Or DD? Or Big Smooth for that matter?

Hicks
05-06-2008, 06:59 PM
Clarification: I didn't say they've all been in trouble with pot. I am saying I've heard or read that they do or have smoked it.

Anthem
05-06-2008, 07:00 PM
Did I miss something when did JO get in trouble with pot? Or DD? Or Big Smooth for that matter?
Heh. Big Smooth's not in question. :D

Sollozzo
05-06-2008, 07:02 PM
Clarification: I didn't say they've all been in trouble with pot. I am saying I've heard or read that they do or have smoked it.


Then you should have said as much in your initial post. It's not very credible to throw JO or Double D's name out there without any clarification whatsoever. This is a site that people in the Pacers organization have read (which you should be proud of). But, IMO, the site loses credibility when you throw out accusations of drug use without backing it up with any sources whatsoever.

Anthem
05-06-2008, 07:02 PM
I've also seen it mentioned here on occasion.
I haven't. (re Jermaine).

If we've talked about it on the board, I certainly don't remember it. And I pay attention to stuff like that.

Anybody else remember a discussion involving JO and pot?

Hicks
05-06-2008, 07:09 PM
Since this is getting some people bent out of shape, I have edited my original post. Yes, there's sarcasm thrown in there, but I'm defensive because it's a surprise that I'm getting back lash on essentially an off-hand post I made. I had no idea it would cause a stir. :shrug:

Don't bother clarifying, I've read your outcry and I get it. I'm merely relaying hearsay. I in no way mean to say that it's fact. Merely that it's something I've either heard or read, and happen to believe.

Will Galen
05-06-2008, 07:17 PM
If you thought pot prosecutions were way out of control, over the top and a total waste of government spending you might just admire public figures that were willing to stand up for it. The goal being a change in legal status of the issue.

My thoughts.

Your talking about should pot smoking be legal. The basic question was do you care if players on your team smoke pot in the off season.

I've said before I don't want anything hurting the Pacers. That's why I don't like Mike Well's as a reporter. He devalues players with some of his reporting.

Now If a player wants to stand up and say for public consumption that he thinks pot smoking should be made legal, and even has rally's for it, I have no problem at all with that.

However, admitting you smoke pot in the off season is dumb! Smoking pot is illegal and Howard making such an admission just cut his value and hurt his team. I don't like that!

As for pot itself I'm against it, it's smoking and I'm against smoking, just as I'm against drinking to much. I'm of the opinion George McGinnis shortened his career by smoking.

Major Cold
05-06-2008, 07:20 PM
Smoking pot belongs in Club Rio...

Discussing whether we should aquire players who have been recorded as smoking pot belong here.

Every year we have this discussion.

Kstat
05-06-2008, 07:27 PM
As long as you do it during the offseason, like so many other responsible NBA all-stars, I really don't care at all. Not my business if it isn't affecting performance.

Twes
05-06-2008, 07:31 PM
Is this a joke?

Pretty sure yes.

You didn't get it? :D

This board is made up of predominantly young male college age guys.

It's a shocker everybody thinks it's okay to fire up. :D

At a time when it's still illegal to smoke pot I just think it's an overwhelmingly negative predictor rather than positive that my player makes this statement about usage.

I want players to have the number 1 focus of winning championships. And yes, I do have the right to make this judgement call because I'm the guy paying him millions of dollars. It goes with the program.

No one wants to pick Ricky Williams when they could have picked Edgerine James.

It's no different by the way if the guy says I like a beer with breakfast.
Another red flag.

I get that people feel like pot should be legal. This is not morality for me as to whether it should or shouldn't.

If it was legal I still wouldn't necessarily want him making that his priority in the press to talk about. I want to know he's living and breathing making this team better. Again I don't need or want to know everything he does but I do demand he doesn't screw this deal up.

Even if I agree that it should be legal it doesn't mean I don't consider the fact that I'm thinking of signing a guy who is trying to make a social statement changing laws etc. This isn't necessarily in line with my objective of winning championships. At the very least it's a distraction.

Why are people so hung up on how this discussion is going? Has anyone been uncival?

Hicks
05-06-2008, 07:33 PM
Jeez, Twes, I was dense enough to not get it as a joke, but did you really have to explain it twice? :D

Will Galen
05-06-2008, 07:36 PM
Jeez, Twes, I was dense enough to not get it as a joke, but did you really have to explain it twice? :D

That's funny! I laughed out loud!

Kstat
05-06-2008, 07:38 PM
I don't have a moral beef with it, so it doesn't bother me if a Piston smokes it.

That said, it IS illegal, and I also expect every Piston to honor that, and not put themselves in a position to get punished and hurt the team.

While I don't mind Josh Howard's habits, I do question his sanity when he's open about conducting them.

Twes
05-06-2008, 07:39 PM
Jeez, Twes, I was dense enough to not get it as a joke, but did you really have to explain it twice? :D


Oops. Wireless connection glitch.

My bad.

:D

jeffg-body
05-06-2008, 08:09 PM
Honestly I don't care either way. I do think legalizing it would go a long way to improving crime rates as it had when I lived in Europe where it was legal. We didn't do it ourselves because we were soldiers who were tested monthly and we wanted to set a good examples for others. I do agree that it is a red flag, and as role models for literally thousands and thousands of children they have a certain responsibility to set a good example and being a professional is part of why they get that big payday.

Arcadian
05-06-2008, 08:30 PM
Yes, I would care if the Simons after making a pledge to clean up the team went right out a got a player who public admits he breaks the law in the offseason. It would signal to me that the Simons are just talking.

No, it doesn't bother me that a player privately smokes pot and keeps it private.

LoneGranger33
05-06-2008, 08:39 PM
Well, if Marquis admits to it, then I see no other option than booting him. Everyone else can bring a bong to the locker room for all I care.

Also, one of my favorite pastimes is getting high and posting on Pacers Digest. I'm not sure, but I might be high now.

count55
05-06-2008, 08:40 PM
Not particularly

BlueNGold
05-06-2008, 08:44 PM
Not enough choices to answer.

I do care some, but if it really bothered me that much, I would not follow the NBA.

Yes, it is illegal and no I would never do it. However, there are several worse things our players have done that bother me considerably more than inhaling fumes from a burning a plant.

Anthem
05-06-2008, 08:47 PM
I want players to have the number 1 focus of winning championships. And yes, I do have the right to make this judgement call because I'm the guy paying him millions of dollars. It goes with the program.
So which one of the Simons are you? :D


No one wants to pick Ricky Williams when they could have picked Edgerine James.

It's no different by the way if the guy says I like a beer with breakfast.
Another red flag.
Great point.




Unless, of course, the player in question is under 21. In which case, :banhim:

duke dynamite
05-06-2008, 08:52 PM
For me, what the players do on their own time is their business.

When it starts to affect the team let alone themselves, that's when I get concerned.

I am against the use of marijuana, just because it's pointless, but professional athletes are masters of their own destiny.

LoneGranger33
05-06-2008, 09:01 PM
I am against the use of marijuana, just because it's pointless, but professional athletes are masters of their own destiny.

Are you against rainbows too?

JayRedd
05-06-2008, 09:06 PM
He's very pro rainbow.

rock747
05-06-2008, 09:08 PM
Here's a list of guys who've been associated with marijuana in some way.

Josh Howard
Damon Stoudamire
Allen Iverson
Marcus Camby
Isaiah Rider
David Harrison
Jamaal Tinsley
Rasheed Wallace
Carmelo Anthony
Shawne Williams
Stephen Jackson
Zach Randolph
Robert Parish
Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
Chris Webber
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Bill Walton

It took me about 5 minutes on Google to find those names.

Dont Forget....
Chris "Birdman" Anderson
Lamar Odom
Eddie Griffin
Chris Webber
Jason Williams
etc

Reports have come out saying that about 70% of the players in the NBA smoke. So you have to wonder who doesnt smoke pot?

GO!!!!!
05-06-2008, 09:21 PM
Pack Mentality...
These people get paid a bucket load and most have no appreciation of working a 9-5 Job...

I don't care what they do in there private time, it's a personal choice.. Well it's a pack choice really, I think most of them are stupid for driving around with it, but how's that different to any Joe driving around with Pot.... If you drive around in general you are XX amount times to get more attraction from the law then if you took the bus or a limo, it's the nature of the beast... so why risk it driving with it, especially if the PoPo pulls up your tag and it says Carmello Anthony Pro Basketball Player...

No guidance... if my friends can save up 100 bucks to rent out the local race track and race around there as fast as they like all day then why a Celeb with 10 Mercedes AMG Benz can't who knows, guess it's the thrill of doing it on a public road...

if Duncan, Tiger Woods and Wesley Snipes all go up to the mountains for a weekend and smoke a whole plant of pot, I don't really mind at all....

Unfortunately it’s not that simple...

LoneGranger33
05-06-2008, 09:36 PM
Diener is a dealer.

Kemo
05-06-2008, 09:46 PM
Smoking pot doesn't make you a better athlete.

There's plenty about it that can be a detriment.

Let's face it a lot of guys can perform at a high level while smoking pot but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be at an even higher level without.

It's a given that they need to excercise judgement (I agree with those who have said that announcing you smoke pot is very poor judgement.)

AT the end of the day I don't want to know what they do in their free time. If you can smoke pot, not get caught and produce on the court I guess that's a great life for you. Nice job.

But if your production falls off, your development is halted, your work ethic suffers or god forbid you get arrested and suspended then don't expect us to feel sorry for you when the wrath of the world comes down on you.

YOU will be the j ack@ss that screwed up the life most all of us can only dream of.



+1 FTW

my sentiments also

Kemo
05-06-2008, 09:50 PM
LOL ya I remember hearing Sam Perkins was a toker...
Did it make me think any less of him?

NO


I don't care personally what they do when they are not on the NBA clock during the season , as long as they are smart about it , don't endorse it's use , or glamorize it (since they are role models) .. I am fine with it..

The part about admitting to smoking.. I wholeheartedly agree with...
Pretty stupid considering pot is still illegal .. (whether I believe it should be illegal or the associated health-risks (or lackthereof) ... is another can of worms, so I won't go there)

PostArtestEra
05-07-2008, 12:58 AM
During the offseason, during the season, it really doesn't matter to me; just so long as the guy isn't driving around with a pound on him. Seriously, how could you have a problem with a guy who wants to smoke pot (in the privacy of his home) to alleviate a little of the unbelievable stress associated with being a professional athlete? I don't understand how anyone could claim that smoking, or considering these guys' salaries, probably vaporizing, could in any way impair a guys ability to play basketball. I mean *****, technically it is illegal to drive 50 in a 45 but I don't think that I would be mad at an athlete speeding in this manner. It just doesn't pose a serious threat, and I would say your chances of getting into trouble of some kind for this type of speeding are about the same as your chances of getting busted for using marijuana in the privacy of your giant secluded mansion. LOL @ smoking pot is pointless. So is masturbating dude, but they are two of the most enjoyable things you can do.

SycamoreKen
05-07-2008, 01:55 AM
After seeing that list of supposed users and how few rings they have won, maybe it does affect ones judgement and performance.

duke dynamite
05-07-2008, 02:17 AM
Are you against rainbows too?


He's very pro rainbow.
You're lucky this isn't Club Rio.

Anthem
05-07-2008, 02:43 AM
You're lucky this isn't Club Rio.
Give it time.

Unclebuck
05-07-2008, 08:34 AM
I wanna see guys play basketball, not worry about whether or not they smoke a little nothern lights #5.

What is up with people trying to control other peoples behavior when it in no way effects them. Like them smoking weed somehow degrades your life. It is this screwed up mentality that does more harm to society than good. Other people pushing their messed up moral code and ideas of proper behavior on other people they don't even know. And we are talking about ganja. Which is proven to be safer than alcholol and cigarettes. /boggle

So you are saying smoking the stuff does not limit a professional athletes lung capacity or their endurance, or their ability to train.

Twes
05-07-2008, 09:03 AM
So which one of the Simons are you? :D


Great point.




Unless, of course, the player in question is under 21. In which case, :banhim:

Wouldn't that be hilarious. After years it's revealed that Twes is actually Herb Simon who has been tormenting Pacer board regulars with his off topic insanity.

No, I just put my GM cap on for the thread topic.

We're all safe. :D

idioteque
05-07-2008, 09:40 AM
You're lucky this isn't Club Rio.

Just take a joke. I think you're a great poster but you're wound too tight sometimes. Just bein real with ya.

As Chris Rock would say, let it slide!

Naptown_Seth
05-07-2008, 11:43 AM
So you are saying smoking the stuff does not limit a professional athletes lung capacity or their endurance, or their ability to train.
I have no doubt it does. I also have no doubt that drinking does the same, as does a poor diet, bad workout habits and so on.

Here's the problem with your stance, if you don't know HOW the player got to the level he is at then what's the difference? If the player is happy to be judged as a lesser player than he could be then that's on him, but the Pacers aren't paying him on what he could be (in the sense of if he didn't smoke), they are paying him on what he actually does.

So a Josh Howard isn't burning teams with his "stupidity", he's only burned himself. For all we know he'd be worse if he eliminated this method of getting his mind right. We just don't know, we only know what his lifestyle and approaches have currently created.

I mean isn't this the same as saying "if only PD poster X didn't eat so much they could do so much more and live so much longer...do we really want to hear the opinions of someone too stupid to look after their own health?"

Heart disease is the top killer right now, more than cancer, so it's pretty valid to see the disregarding of issues that might impact heart health as "dumb". But maybe PD poster X needs the box of donuts to destress and post clear thoughts.

The point is that I don't think you can equate two separate aspects as the same train of thought or equal identifiers of intelligence. Plenty of smart people risk personally destructive divorces with extra marital activities every day. Suddenly Bill Clinton is an illiterate fool because of Lewinski?



Now, if you are saying that a player is considering taking up smoking after the Pacers signed him up to output at a certain level then I'll listen to the idea that he's pushing it. But then what about a player that owns a motorcycle or hangs out with Tinsley. What about Jeff Kent "washing his truck"?

I once worked for a company where key people were expected to avoid all risk activities during key design phases and this would include skiing, mountain biking, etc. So it stops being about pot and starts being about "what are we paying you for and is there anything you will be doing that puts your ability to continue to do that at SERIOUS risk".

I think it's fair that a company hold that standard, but they have to make a case that the ability to MAINTAIN THE CURRENT level they were negotiated at is going to be compromised.

Just ask Greg Oden about that.

Naptown_Seth
05-07-2008, 11:53 AM
I don't have a moral beef with it, so it doesn't bother me if a Piston smokes it.

That said, it IS illegal, and I also expect every Piston to honor that, and not put themselves in a position to get punished and hurt the team.

While I don't mind Josh Howard's habits, I do question his sanity when he's open about conducting them.
In keeping with my previous post I do think a team could be reasonably expected to want to negotiate these concerns into a contract, as in "if you want to take this stance then we want the right to not be forced to take it with you", as in being alliviated of paying the player when he is arrested for the activity.

Again, this is going to depend on the team's stance on the issue. If it was civil rights you'd obviously expect a team to support Player X if he's going to a protest and possibly be arrested for a few days. The team is sharing the pain in that case because they are also supporting the cause.

But I certainly would NEVER expect a team/company to be forced to support a cause, especially one involving the changing of a law. And this again goes past legal issues. You might be a big PETA fan but that doesn't mean your company has to put up with you missing 2 weeks when you are arrested in Mexico protesting a chinchilla farm.* They might even think it's a "good cause" but not be willing to go as far as losing employees for a few weeks.



While I have no problem with people who smoke pot,I do have to say that my general feeling about this is that I dont care what someone does in their private life.But show some maturity,I mean who in their right mind would go on the radio a day before a playoff game and tell the world that you smoke pot,offseason or not that was an extremely stupid move on his part.

And some of you may quote the part where I say "who in their right mind" part and make a pothead joke,marijuana had nothing to do with him going on the radio and saying that...immaturity did.
Good point. And it's not one marked by pot, lots of guys mouth off about whatever at seemingly the worst possible time. So if we redirect that way then I guess we could discuss avoiding a player simply because he causes disruptions in whatever manner. I'd say that's a big yes for the Pacers at this point. ;) :D





* vaguely offensive remark number 8 1/2 in my effort to hit Most Offensive Poster 2009

Naptown_Seth
05-07-2008, 12:00 PM
Aesop - :laugh:


Diener is a dealer.
Sideburns - dead giveaway. Unless he joined Wolfmother or The Strokes when we weren't looking.



You're lucky this isn't Club Rio.
I'm thinking Metropolis or 501 is more like it. :devil: * and **








* definitely on the Most Offensive List






** if you don't get it, move downtown with the hip kids :cool:
(I'm neither a kid nor hip, but the hip kids clue me in, usually right before they TP and egg my house...whippersnappers)

Since86
05-07-2008, 12:35 PM
So should players not be allowed to eat fast food or pizza, or even go to bed later than midnight, because that affects the way they play basketball too? A player's ability to play cannot be perfected, they're people, not machines.

I know pot is illegal, but if the chances of you getting caught if you're doing it in the privacy of your own home is miniscule. Yes, pot is illegal, but I percieve being caught with a personal stash of marijuana as only a couple of steps above a jaywalking ticket.

They can eat whatever they want, but yes, they are machines. Their body gets them their paycheck. Why in the world, if you raced a car, would you put crappy gas in it? What you eat affects how you feel, your immune system, your energy level, your eye sight, the ability of your body to repair damage (skin/muscle tissue/connective tissue/etc.).

You ask a professional athlete if he can eat like a regular person, and you would get told "no" every single time. The FDA recommends 2000 kcals for people, that's why on nutrition labels everything is set at 2000 kcal levels for percentages of nutrients. I would estimate that pro basketball players need well over 5000 kcals, without doing the math or studies.

I mean hell Dwight Freeney won't eat lemons because of his diet for God's sake. Professional athlete's bodies are fine tuned machines, and you're only kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

As far as the chance of getting caught while smoking in your room, that might be the case with you, but again, you're not getting random drug tests by your employer. I don't know enough about the NBA drug policy, but I know MLB and NFL give drug screens year round, no matter if it's dead in the middle of the offseason. You get busted a month after the season ends, that's a strike on your record. I read another comment from a poster that say's as long as they're not driving around with it. Well unless they grow it, or their dealer delievers, then they're going to drive around with it.

JayRedd
05-07-2008, 12:51 PM
I mean hell Dwight Freeney won't eat lemons because of his diet for God's sake. Professional athlete's bodies are fine tuned machines, and you're only kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

Then again, Chad Johnson eats McDonalds three times a day and it seems to work out pretty well.

The only qualification for being a professional athlete is to be good enough at your sport for someone to give you money to do so. Other than that, how good you want yourself to be is up to you -- not the schmuck billionaire who gave you a guarenteed contract or the schmuck fans that overspend for tickets to come watch you play.

If you want to huff glue in your spare time, go nuts.

I won't respect you for that decision and I'll be upset about it if you happen to play for the teams I like, but feel free to live your own life however you want. If idiots let there kids think guys like Michael Irvin and Darryl Strawberry are worth looking up to as role models then those idiots probably shouldn't have had kids.

Naptown_Seth
05-07-2008, 01:01 PM
Why in the world, if you raced a car, would you put crappy gas in it?
Why in the wrold if you raced a car would you be out drinking at 3 AM the night before the 500?

Family story in which my grandfather tracked down their team's driver and found him out drinking with AJ. Seemed to work out okay for him, but then maybe he would have won 8 if he'd toned it down.


And good thing the Yanks passed on this issue, can you imagine Mantle playing for another team simply because the Yanks didn't want a guy stupid enough to hurt his career by getting drunk on nights before games?

Since86
05-07-2008, 02:29 PM
Using an argument about Mickey Mantle, considering the progress in athletic performance, and nutrition, would be like me using the Wright brothers as an example for talking about current day aerodynamics.

The level of athlete is leaps and bounds better than it was 60 years ago. How about you tell us that FT shooting should be done granny style because Rick Barry did it, or about how advancing the ball by dribbling should be a violation because that was part of the original rules that Dr. Naismith had drawn up.

I'm willing to bet that Chad Johnson also works his *** off in the gym so he can do it. I still have all my notes for my nutrion class, which is intro, and will be taking nutrition for athletes next semester if you want me to forward those on as well.

Athlete's can't eat at the same level as you or I, because their body requires more of it. Just because Chad eats McDonalds three times a day doesn't mean that's all he eats. And as far as Chad Johnson in general, I don't know why someone on his level would be a good example to follow to begin with.

It's getting to the point now where performance enhancing facilities are targeting high school kids. I graduated from a small 1a school (76 kids in my class) and we had our entire basketball team seeing a personal trainer. St. Vincent Hospital in Indy now has TV ads for high school kids to come and train with their performance team.

There's a another tread talking about weightlifting, and the importance of nutrion in it. Go talk to athletes, yes even Chad Johnson, about what it takes to play at a high level and the things they can and cannot do with their bodies.


:EDIT: Hell a couple of years ago I was in a debate on here about Ron Artest and his complaining that he didn't recieve his room service at the time he requested, on game days when they were on the road, and how it negatively affected his performance. :END EDIT:

Either way, it still doesn't negate the fact that it's an illegal activity. It's not on the same level as speeding, in the eyes of the law (unless your a hibitual offender) because you can recieve jail time for the offense.

Speeding is a citation, drugs are misdemeanors or even felonies.

JayRedd
05-07-2008, 03:18 PM
I know you're a nutrition guy and believe all you say. You clearly understand all this moreso than anyone here (I reckon). The McDonald's thing was sort of tongue in cheek and included, mainly, cause I'm sort of an a-hole, not cause I think Ocho Cinco wouldn't play better if he ate broccoli and yogurt all day.

Engaging in certain behaviors will of course hinder their abilities. My only point was that it's up to them whether or not they care -- not so much us who watch.

Twes
05-07-2008, 03:35 PM
An athlete's body and talent on the court are his product.

Before he's drafted it's a job interview for him where he's trying to make the case for a team to invest their future in him. Millions of dollars and the reputation of the franchise on the line.

We've seen here in Indy the ways these things impact an organization. Making bad choices with players can destroy what takes years to build.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

You're sure as Hell going to scrutinize anything that might diminish a players product.

Naptown_Seth
05-07-2008, 03:48 PM
Using an argument about Mickey Mantle, considering the progress in athletic performance, and nutrition, would be like me using the Wright brothers as an example for talking about current day aerodynamics.
No its not, not unless in 61 everyone thought it was just fine to get smashed before games. According to the interviews with Billy, Whitey and Mic they sure didn't think it helped. Ford always joked that he had it easy because he wasn't pitching that day. They'd talk about how amazing it was that Mantle could produce like that IN SPITE OF being hungover.


Sports medicine being even more exact doesn't remove the fact that by this time they were going to spring training, getting curfews and being expected to NOT GO DRINKING. But they did.

So if we are debating on a team like the Pacers passing on a player because they have a priori decided to reduce their output ability then it's directly the same as the Yanks skipping on Mantle because he could have been even better.

If Howard is going to go 16-6-2 and get paid for that amount, on crack, heroine and pot, and is not going to miss games due to be arrested (or is willing to go without pay for those games, perhaps compensate the Pacers when they have to find a new player too) then it's a moot point.

Right now for all you know Reggie grew his own in the basement and no one ever found out. If we could suddenly know that was true would it erase what he did? Would it change the value per dollar the Pacers got from him?


The Pacers have to have 2 concerns - what level will you perform at and how often will you be available to play.

Personally I'll take Howard, 10 games missed in jail, and 16-6-2 the rest of the time for a pay rate similar to Dunleavy. That's more games played than Quis last year, or Tins or JO this or last year.

There is plenty of risk that non smoking players will see their output falter or their games missed hit 10+ too. I'm not dismissing it as a factor at all, I'm saying you consider the impact, adjust the offered pay accordingly if the players total output will still have value to you, and you deal with it.

A player's own motivation to stay in shape, try hard, not lose his temper and get tossed, actually understand what he's supposed to do, etc are all just as important or more so.

Naptown_Seth
05-07-2008, 03:53 PM
and the things they can and cannot do with their bodies.

Howard CAN go 18-6-2 with pot in his life. I'll pay him accordingly for that caliber output. I'll add to the contract that time lost to jail will not be paid, could void the contract at my discretion and might involve me seeking damages since it's not like I can just go get another player off the street.

But then that would apply to manslaughter, tax evasion and forgery too. Unable to play is unable to play. And as we've discussed before most deals do have wording regarding these kinds of issues.

Since86
05-07-2008, 04:03 PM
The health concerns that we know today about alcohol, and was was known in 1961 are far different. Hell Red Arbach was smoking on the freaking court in 1961.

You completely forgot to mention the level of athlete today, compared to then. The level of play at which athlete's perform far outweigh what they were doing then.

Whitey Ford won the Cy Young in 1961, pitched in 39 games, and averaged throwing 7 1/3 innings per game pitched. Do you recommend pitchers throwing like that today as well?

I could create a list a mile long about athletes and what they did either on or off the field that is frowned upon today. Times change, new information is found out. New info about what is good, and what is bad for athletes.

My God, because my grandfather smoked 2 packs a day, does that mean I should? It must be healthy, he didn't die of lung cancer, but from complications of a stroke. Because he did it, it must be okay. What logic.

Personally, it's not about who does what and who doesn't. It's about minimizing the chance of being suspended, or not being able to play.

SMOKING POT IS ILLEGAL. IT WILL GET YOU SUSPENDED, AND/OR JAIL TIME.


A player's own motivation to stay in shape, try hard, not lose his temper and get tossed, actually understand what he's supposed to do, etc are all just as important or more so.

Exactly and a part of what he's supposed to do is be able to play. Avoid those things that will get him suspended or be put in jail.

You tell me ONE benefit of getting high, and I will drop the whole thing. One positive influence that an athlete gets from smoking pot.

Since86
05-07-2008, 04:09 PM
Howard CAN go 18-6-2 with pot in his life. I'll pay him accordingly for that caliber output. I'll add to the contract that time lost to jail will not be paid, could void the contract at my discretion and might involve me seeking damages since it's not like I can just go get another player off the street.

So you cut him, now what? You're exactly right, you can't just pick up a player off the street.

Now you're down a starter, and have to put a bench player in his spot. Now you have a reserve playing a more prominant role, and now you have a 3rd stringer bumped up to 2nd, or you have other guys filling the void and getting more time they normally get.

Cutting them just doesn't affect that said player, it affects the entire team.

It's a snowball issue. If it's David Harrison getting suspended, I can deal with that. But JO getting caught means much more (assuming he's actually healthy).

Dun missing five games, that he could have avoided, is a much bigger deal than Owens or Graham.

Chicago got screwed over by Jay Williams. It just didn't affect Jay. Cleveland was set back some by Winslow, it just didn't affect him. Hell Boston was set back , who knows how far, by Len Bias.

Those things CAN be avoided, and should be avoided. That's the reason why contracts are written that way. It's more than just the ability to end the contract if it's broken, it's also supposed to be a deterrent.

idioteque
05-07-2008, 05:26 PM
86 I understand what you're saying but in regards to the whole issue of athletes taking care of their bodies, you're forgetting one thing: nobody is perfect. People aren't machines.

I'm thankful that Dwight Freeney is in good shape but I'm willing to bet he's eaten a steak in the past three or four years. I'm willing to bet that Jermaine O'Neal has eaten a cheeseburger at some point. People are imperfect and no matter how much money you're making, you're not going to dedicate every inkling of yourself to your job. If that was the case, you'd lock up all the Colts and Pacers in a gym in the off season with a bunch of approved food in GLAD plastic cases. It just doesn't work that way. The place where I work invests a decent amount of money in me every year to do my job right, and I do more than enough to get by, but forgive me for staying up playing GTA and only getting three hours of sleep and being a bit tired for work the next day. Sure, it may harm my productivity a bit, but even on those days I am good enough at my job where I can work above productivity standards and I have still gotten plenty of good comments from my boss. It's the same way with NBA players. With someone like JO, they have enough athletic ability to go out drinking one night and then get a 20/10 twelve hours later. I don't really care if players are getting high in the privacy of their own homes if their stats are still where they should be. Now, if I heard even one thing about them doing it in public...

PostArtestEra
05-07-2008, 05:53 PM
So you are saying smoking the stuff does not limit a professional athletes lung capacity or their endurance, or their ability to train.

Ummm... Yes, I would say precisely that.

JayRedd
05-07-2008, 07:40 PM
You tell me ONE benefit of getting high, and I will drop the whole thing.

All Along The Watchtower.


One positive influence that an athlete gets from smoking pot.

Oh, athletically.

Well then...Smoking weed, much like drinking alcohol, is often a social lubricant and often fosters deep, personal conversation, which helps you connect with other people on a deeper level than you can by simply eating dinner or watching a movie together. From a team perspective, Jamaal and JO getting high together on a Saturday night could be a bonding experience that could translate to a better understanding of each other as people and, therefore, make them better teammates.*













* All this, without any of the side effects of Teamocil.

Trader Joe
05-07-2008, 08:28 PM
Ummm... Yes, I would say precisely that.

Smoking anything affects your lung capacity. The most absurd thing I've ever heard is that smoking weed won't hurt your lungs. That couldn't be any further from the truth. I'm not gonna get preachy, but if you honestly don't think smoking weed can hinder your lung capacity then you are just very poorly informed.

BruceLeeroy
05-07-2008, 11:14 PM
I've heard the same thing Mal has regarding JO. A cousin of mine owns a salon about a half block from 7. She's witnessed it and I know a DJ that he's hired and knows him well claim he smokes with him. I think it's pretty well known up here in Broad Ripple. I have no link so I'm sure most won't believe me. Then again I don't really care.

If these guys are just smoking recreationally I don't see a problem.

Trader Joe
05-08-2008, 01:08 AM
I'd bet 90% of the players in the NBA have lit up at least once in their lives. I just don't like to go accusing people on a public forum based off a rumor.

Hicks
05-08-2008, 01:43 AM
I'm not faulting him. I don't care that he (might).

Taterhead
05-08-2008, 03:54 AM
No I don't really care. Josh Howard is obviously in plenty good enough shape to play NBA basketball. I am pretty sure he is talking about occasional recreational use, not a quick wake-n-bake before practice everyday. He has enough energy to play a little defense, which is more than I can say for 90% of our smoke free roster. Is it ideal, of course not.

But me personally, I am much more concerned with players going out to clubs and drinking heavily, which happens a lot. It is just as bad for your overall health, and far more dangerous to mine.

I hope if we do trade for Howard we send him to Jamal's house/hotel room with a sack of Aurora Borealis and a Never Ending Story DVD the night before every game. I bet noone bust in with an AK trying to take them out.

rexnom
05-08-2008, 05:28 AM
The thing is, you are putting yourself and your organization in jeopardy when you act like Howard did. Shows poor judgment. The Pacers, especially, can't afford guys like that.

I feel a certain way about pot personally, but, regardless of what that is, I won't let it affect my basketball sense. I don't give a **** what my team's players do or don't do, as long as it doesn't affect them on the court. So, that's moot. But when it does - bad PR, suspensions, arrests, etc. then I care. And a guy like Howard, a veteran, former all-star, should know better than to put his team in such an awkward spot.

With a guy like Hulk, I couldn't care less if he smokes pot or not...until it gets his *** suspended. That's just stupid. Again, poor judgment. These are the rocket scientists the Pacers don't need on the team. And I'm not even a high-morals type of guy! Just ask JayRedd or LG's mother! I'll do anything (TWSS)! What pisses me off is poor judgment. That's what's always pissed me off.

Peck asked about Pacers complaining in another thread. I don't care about that either. Go ***** at the refs, I don't care...as long as you get back on D and don't get a T. Whine all day and all night, just don't stop playing basketball. Winning is the most important thing. Just don't do anything that will compromise winning. Josh Howard saying he smokes pot occasionally during the middle of a playoff series was an idiot move that compromised the team. Next, please.