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View Full Version : RAW players to recieve $$$



Major Cold
04-30-2008, 11:59 AM
The following players will recieve a huge contract. They were once considered RAW or projects. From what I remember. Some maybe debatable.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=2008freeagents

Josh Smith- ATL- 2004 17th pick
Luol Deng-Chi- 2004 7th pick(I thought he got an extension)
Andris Biedrins- GSW-2004 11th pick
Monta Ellis-GSW-2004 40th pick
Andre Iguodala-Phi-2004 9th pick )I thought he got an extension)

I could go back and look at other players. Here is my point. When you draft projects, Raw players, or tweeners you are at risk for losing them (Josh Smith) or over paying them to blossom (Bender, Kwame).

By the time Shawne Williams becomes relevant to our team on a consistent basis we will have to pay him big to stay. By the time Thabeet (I realize he is staying another year) or Jordan blossom the risk is greater. Do we lose them or overpay them. Just look at Arenas and the Ws. They made that Spreewell trade and did not have enough cash to sign him, thus he walked.

So what could the NBA do about this? It is a wide spread problem. The guaranteed contracts are killing teams. Big market teams like NY and Dallas can handle a few players like this, but small market teams like the Bucks and Pacers cannot.

Speed
04-30-2008, 12:40 PM
The guaranteed contracts are killing teams.

You point out another reason guaranteed contracts hurt the game and teams.

Derrick Coleman gave Larry Brown a blank check for fines at the beginning of the season one year after arriving late to practice. A blank check to cover his fines for the year so he could do what he wanted.

The NFL is too much the other way, you could have a guy sign a 6 year deal and cut him tomorrow and he loses all that salary, he keeps his signing bonus, which is closer to a good idea.

I wish they would have a partial pay off or built in buy out so guys aren't able to sign a long term contract and just stop working or caring. I wish it would be you can cut whoever, but you have to pay them 50% of there contract the rest of the way out. Then you'd have incentive financially for guys to get better and play.

As far as being able to pay a RAW player who develops you do have to make decisions on a player, but I don't think its before the 4th or 5th year. That, to me, is pretty reasonable.

I think Donnie tried to do it right with Tinsley, but it back fired. He tried to sign Tinsley for under a top 10 PG salary and lock him up long term, but, well, we all know what happened there, his contract became an albatross.

You have to truely believe a guy has the character to work and be dedicated after he gets paid.

I think you can trust Danny Granger, I don't think you can trust Shawne Williams. I'd get rid of Shawne at his highest point because of this, I'd lock up Granger as quickly as possible for the same reasons.

On a side note, I would bet that in 2 years when Tinsley is in a contract year, he sets the world on fire and plays 75 plus games. Wanna bet?

Major Cold
04-30-2008, 12:44 PM
Ha!! if Tins does that I will eat my Uncle Clyde's hair piece.

If guaranteed contracts are out then high rookie salaries are back in. The NFL want to take that away but the Players Union want more solid contract, ala NBA.

Moses
04-30-2008, 12:51 PM
You point out another reason guaranteed contracts hurt the game and teams.

Derrick Coleman gave Larry Brown a blank check for fines at the beginning of the season one year after arriving late to practice. A blank check to cover his fines for the year so he could do what he wanted.

The NFL is too much the other way, you could have a guy sign a 6 year deal and cut him tomorrow and he loses all that salary, he keeps his signing bonus, which is closer to a good idea.

I wish they would have a partial pay off or built in buy out so guys aren't able to sign a long term contract and just stop working or caring. I wish it would be you can cut whoever, but you have to pay them 50% of there contract the rest of the way out. Then you'd have incentive financially for guys to get better and play.

As far as being able to pay a RAW player who develops you do have to make decisions on a player, but I don't think its before the 4th or 5th year. That, to me, is pretty reasonable.

I think Donnie tried to do it right with Tinsley, but it back fired. He tried to sign Tinsley for under a top 10 PG salary and lock him up long term, but, well, we all know what happened there, his contract became an albatross.

You have to truely believe a guy has the character to work and be dedicated after he gets paid.

I think you can trust Danny Granger, I don't think you can trust Shawne Williams. I'd get rid of Shawne at his highest point because of this, I'd lock up Granger as quickly as possible for the same reasons.

On a side note, I would bet that in 2 years when Tinsley is in a contract year, he sets the world on fire and plays 75 plus games. Wanna bet?
Most NFL teams offer a TON of guaranteed money via signing bonus to star players so it makes it almost impossible to cut that player until the final couple of years of the contract. I think the NFL has an 10000x better system in terms of salary cap than the NBA. I feel guaranteed contracts are killing a lot of small market teams in the NBA.

To those who don't know how the NFL salary system works, say for example a team signs a guy to a 7 year 80 million dollar deal with a 20 million signing bonus (or guaranteed money) that is paid out in the first year. However, the 20 million bonus does not count against the salary cap for that year..rather it is prorated throughout the course of 7 years so it counts about 2.7sh million against the cap each year until the end of that players contract. If the player is cut before the end of his contract, the signing bonus (whats left of it) will count against that years cap in it's entirety...so it is very rare for a franchise to just outright cut a guy who just got a big contract. And even if they do, he gets his signing bonus and has a chance to go sign with another team for even more money. Almost every contract has a decent signing bonus..it is very rare for a player to accept a contract with no guaranteed money. Only guys with extreme character problems have to deal with situations like that(Pacman, Mike Vick if he ever returns).

OakMoses
04-30-2008, 12:54 PM
One thing that I'd like to point out is that you're RAW players are all wings our guards, other than Biedrins, who is the least developed player out of the group. Most/all of the raw players in this draft are bigs, and bigs haven't developed nearly as well historically.

Speed
04-30-2008, 01:17 PM
Most NFL teams offer a TON of guaranteed money via signing bonus to star players so it makes it almost impossible to cut that player until the final couple of years of the contract. I think the NFL has an 10000x better system in terms of salary cap than the NBA. I feel guaranteed contracts are killing a lot of small market teams in the NBA.

To those who don't know how the NFL salary system works, say for example a team signs a guy to a 7 year 80 million dollar deal with a 20 million signing bonus (or guaranteed money) that is paid out in the first year. However, the 20 million bonus does not count against the salary cap for that year..rather it is prorated throughout the course of 7 years so it counts about 2.7sh million against the cap each year until the end of that players contract. If the player is cut before the end of his contract, the signing bonus (whats left of it) will count against that years cap in it's entirety...so it is very rare for a franchise to just outright cut a guy who just got a big contract. And even if they do, he gets his signing bonus and has a chance to go sign with another team for even more money. Almost every contract has a decent signing bonus..it is very rare for a player to accept a contract with no guaranteed money. Only guys with extreme character problems have to deal with situations like that(Pacman, Mike Vick if he ever returns).

I think about the O lineman who is going to walk crooked the rest of his life and got 500,000 signing bonus over 5 years and is cut in year 3 because a younger guy got drafted. He got his 2 million a year for the first 2 years and gets to keep his bonus, but gets none of the last 2 years of his contract. I agree that big names get the big bonus', but the average guy doesn't. I think it is a wayyyy better system, but it's got its flaws as well.

Moses
04-30-2008, 02:09 PM
I think about the O lineman who is going to walk crooked the rest of his life and got 500,000 signing bonus over 5 years and is cut in year 3 because a younger guy got drafted. He got his 2 million a year for the first 2 years and gets to keep his bonus, but gets none of the last 2 years of his contract. I agree that big names get the big bonus', but the average guy doesn't. I think it is a wayyyy better system, but it's got its flaws as well.
I agree with that. That's probably the biggest flaw in the sense that it does not help the average player who plays at a highly replaceable position. Then again, life is not fair and no system is ever going to be 100% perfect. I think the NFL has a system that is as close as it gets to perfect. The NFL/NBA are around for entertainment and to make money. NBA franchises cannot make money when they are bound down by multiple bad contracts for half a decade. Should they be punished for signing those players to long term deals? To an extent yes, but the deals are just to long in my opinion. There needs to be performance clauses in nearly every NBA contract IMO that makes a contract voidable if a player does not play a certain number of games or score a certain number of points/grab certain # of rebounds/etc. I don't think that will ever happen though. Another problem in my mind is how big a joke the NBA salary cap is.

Doddage
04-30-2008, 08:00 PM
Here I thought this post was going to be about the WWE.