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Twes
04-25-2008, 07:11 PM
How do you think the impact of NBA coaches in terms of motivation and vocal leadership compares with other sports. Mainly the NFL.

I get the sense in the NFL guys are a lot more tuned in to coaches i.e. lockeroom speeches etc. than in the NBA.

Obviously with a lot more games the message might wear thin, but is there more to it than that?

A difference in the athlete? More self reliant perhaps?

Gamble1
04-25-2008, 07:22 PM
I be the first to say it. The NBA is less of a "team" league than the NFL. I'll also go one further. Basketball is less complicated than football.

I know I'll get hammered for this but I think it is true. There are different styles of athletes in the NFL from position to position. MOre facets to the game and more emphasis on each person impacting the outcome of the game.

Coaches can have more power because they have more options per position. Don't get me wrong, NBA coaching is important but not as critical as the NFL.

THe impact of coaching is in the power of the leadership. IF you don't respect the coach in the NBA there are less consequences than the NFL.

Unclebuck
04-28-2008, 08:53 AM
I be the first to say it. The NBA is less of a "team" league than the NFL. I'll also go one further. Basketball is less complicated than football.

I know I'll get hammered for this but I think it is true. There are different styles of athletes in the NFL from position to position. MOre facets to the game and more emphasis on each person impacting the outcome of the game.

Coaches can have more power because they have more options per position. Don't get me wrong, NBA coaching is important but not as critical as the NFL.

THe impact of coaching is in the power of the leadership. IF you don't respect the coach in the NBA there are less consequences than the NFL.

I understand what you are saying, and agree with a few of your points.

In the NFL there is so little contact between the head coach and most of the players, that if the players don't respect the head coach - it has very little negative impact. But in the NBA where the head coach and each player has direct contact, if any of the players don't respect the coach, the whole team suffers. Thinkf of it this way - how many time outs are there in an NBA game. About 16 plus quarter breaks, plus halftimes. Who talks during each of those. The head coach - the players hear the head coach thousands of times a season, where as the NFL you don't hear from the head coach except before, the game, at halftime, and when the game is over. So 3 times per game 16 games that is 48 times, vs about 1500 times for NBA players - and I'm not even talking about practice.

In the NFL the position coach has a huge impact, for example the offensive line coach is much, much, much more important to the offensive lineman than the head coach. Where as in the NBA the head coach impacts every player on the team to a much great degree than the head coach does in the NFL.

Gamble, but I assume you are talking about NFL coaching in general and NBA coaching in general - Certainly there is more going on in football - there are more players, so more coaches and more coaching is needed - but that doesn't come from the head coach. In the NFL, get me great assistant coaches - and it doesn't matter who the head coach is. In the NBA it is just the opposite.


Not sure I agree with your statement, "each person in the NFL has a great impact on the outcome of the game" It is difficult to equate 22 starters - plus kickers, and special team players to 5 basketball players. I could make a really strong argument that the 5th most important NBA player is a lot more important to the team than the 22nd NFL player - whoever that might be. Simply the numbers of it

McKeyFan
04-28-2008, 09:17 AM
and I'm not even talking about practice.

On this point, Allen Iverson totally disagrees with you.



:D

Twes
05-03-2008, 07:56 PM
I think the next locker room coaches pep talk they show with fully engaged players will be the first.

The NBA PR department should ban cameras in locker rooms.

JayRedd
05-03-2008, 08:02 PM
Comparing NBA coaching to NFL coaching is like comparing checkers to chess.

In the NBA (and MLB...at least the AL) it's a lot more about being the "head of the family" in a Phil Jackson/Joe Torre type way. That is, you have to manage the personalities, keep the team focused and on track, and just be sure to always make sure you keep the players in the best position to be successful.

There's not really a lot to calling a TO with 6 seconds left and saying "Clear out for LeBron" but it's the right thing to do.

Of course, I'm not trying to oversimplify; there is of course much strategy. But even the best coaches all say "You can tell the defense what play we're running. They all know anyway. It's all about execution." Everyone knows every single detail about the offense the Bulls and Lakers have been running for the past 18 years. Phil and Tex would fax you their playbook if you want. It doesn't matter cause it's not the offense...it's the way it's been run by MJ/Pippen/Kobe/Shaq/etc.

The NFL is so much more complex and based on in-game reactions to advanced scheming that it's not really even the same discipline.

Twes
05-03-2008, 08:25 PM
I'm just talking about the locker room scenes.

It seems to me the whole reason to show a coaches locker room pre game pep talk is to plug us in to some of the energy of the playoffs.

I don't think it's working.

Slick Pinkham
05-03-2008, 09:16 PM
Pep talks work in college sports.

In the NFL the best teams make halftime adjustments by having the multiple assistant coaches break things down in small groups of players, telling EVERYONE exactly what tactics and techniques they need to use.

X's-and-O's not rah-rah is the way to win in the pros. Sure their are psychological ploys like "bulletin board material" but that is pretty insignificant compared to just flat out making it clear the job everybody has to do.

Basketball may be more open to motivational speeches depending upon the makeup of the team, since you are only motivating the 7-9 guys in the rotation.

But still the rah-rah stuff works best for the kids who haven't heard it all 10 times before

Naptown_Seth
05-05-2008, 12:49 AM
I will say this, I think NBA ball has an oversimplified perception too. Think about the money on the line and the lack of players on the court. Then add to this the years of work and study, plus the long hours even with practice times being limited. That formula suggests constant invention and alteration in order to tweek the system in your favor. If you can work a system for a game as simple as blackjack you know that people have angles for winning in the NBA.

Some portion of reaching players is having the right answers. When a coach says "do this" it sure as F better work or whatever cred he had with that player is going to be lost. I think it was a player talking about Riley when he said that despite the annoyance of his always intense approach the one thing they knew was coming out of it was that he always had the answer when they needed it.

You know a pitcher might only have 3-4 pitches and then perhaps 9 true locations to put those pitches. But the order of it, knowing which thing to do next and how to construct the whole approach in order to maximize success, that'll get a pitcher to listen to his coach/catcher a lot more.

In the NBA there's a lot to be said for the set-up play, having one thing to hit them with and then the counter to that when they adjust to stop the first version. And players in the game just don't see this as well as a coach can because he's in a better spot to see the overall picture without worrying about his own 1 on 1 battle.

Maybe a backdoor cut isn't a normal option in a play but the coach notices a guy overplaying on the PnR trap. Simple play, simple adjustment, but you have to pick up on the nuance and do it very quickly in order to make things work out.

And a coach who can open this view up to his players so they can truly adjust on the fly at that level too without him having to call timeout and tell them? That guy's going to be a HOF type of coach.

In some ways it's the complexity of the NFL that reduces some of this coordinated improvisation. A guy might go Vick on a run, but getting 5-6 guys to sudden change up a play in unison, that's a real stretch. That's where the NBA CAN (but doesn't always) be more "complex" than the NFL.

LG33
05-05-2008, 12:50 AM
I completely disagree Seth. What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Naptown_Seth
05-05-2008, 01:26 AM
I get it. Moving in on my turf eh? Like the top gun...I was at the bar when this kid walks in and says "I disagree". I turned and threw of volley of logical positivisms at him that sent him into a coma. Then I realized that kid was only 10 years old.

I've been drinking ever since. I'll never rationalize or put on a life preserver again.*


*incongruent pop movie reference brought to you by the JayRedd foundation

JayRedd
05-05-2008, 01:39 AM
I've got an idea for the next project for the Foundation...Why don't we gather up all these bricks and build a shelter for the homeless, so maybe your mother will have a place to live. And your sister too. I want your mother and sister out of my house immediately.

Twes
05-05-2008, 09:09 AM
I get it. Moving in on my turf eh? Like the top gun...I was at the bar when this kid walks in and says "I disagree". I turned and threw of volley of logical positivisms at him that sent him into a coma. Then I realized that kid was only 10 years old.

I've been drinking ever since. I'll never rationalize or put on a life preserver again.*


*incongruent pop movie reference brought to you by the JayRedd foundation


"That's a twenty footer."

"Twenty five... three tons on em."

That's a classic right there.

Tom White
05-05-2008, 09:17 AM
I completely disagree Seth. What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

I think you may have Seth confused with Paula Abdul.

Naptown_Seth
05-06-2008, 11:03 AM
I've got an idea for the next project for the Foundation...Why don't we gather up all these bricks and build a shelter for the homeless, so maybe your mother will have a place to live. And your sister too. I want your mother and sister out of my house immediately.
I promised myself I wasn't going to laugh.*

Of course so did my mom and it cost her a place to live. If only she hadn't pointed too she might have covered it up with "I was thinking about something else."



I think you may have Seth confused with Paula Abdul.
I think it has something to do with the cat I always hang out with.




* seriously, that's killer delivery