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Unclebuck
04-23-2008, 09:05 AM
I knew Paul was good, but I didn't realize he was this good. Some might say well he's playing against an over-the-hill Jason Kidd, and against a Mavs team that has no one who can defend him. Might be some truth to that, but if you saw game 2 last night you saw the Mavs try everything. They trapped him hard (or tried to - he usually just split the double team) they doubled him early, they tried to get the pick and roll trap on him for as long as they could, and yet none of it worked. And the playoffs are supposed to be when a team can concentrate on one team for a couple of weeks and figure out how to control an opposing player.

Steve Nash is also an excellent point guard, but I watched both games last night and after seeing Paul play Nash seemed average - ordinary - good but not great. That is how good Paul is playing and it just shows how good he is.

Paul reminds me of a cross between Isiah Thomas and Kevin Johnson. He has Isiah's toughness, his floaters in the lane, his defense, his leadership, his ability to rise to the occasion, and at the same time he also has some of Kevin Johnson in him. Kevin for a few years there was unstoppable.

Does Paul have a weakness - I suppose he isn't a great three point shooter - but he doesn't need to be. He has every intangible a great point guards needs - leadership, character, feel for the game, plays hard - he is a great player, not just a great point guard.

Until just recently I was saying that Deron Williams was better or at least just as good as Paul - no - and it really isn't close. Williams is a great point guard - Paul is more than that he is a great player who just happens to play point guard. Sort of like Magic or Isiah.

Looking ahead I can't wait to see the Spurs play the Hornets (it is looking like that will be the second round series) because the Spurs are the best in the NBA at controling the other team's best player - but I don't know if Paul can be controlled.

Paul will win multiple championships, he will win multiple MVP's - he is that good. Let's just hope he stays healthy - because he is a joy to watch.

Tom White
04-23-2008, 09:28 AM
He is putting on a show, isn't he?

There has been a lot of talk this year about who should get the league MVP award. A number of TV and radio basketball types have been saying that Bryant should get it, and making a big deal about how he has never won it. Gee that's just too bad, huh?

My vote would go to Paul.

Major Cold
04-23-2008, 09:44 AM
He sucks they should trade him to a team who is desperate for a PG who can do it all.

I heard the pacers are looking.

idioteque
04-23-2008, 10:24 AM
Paul is really, really good. Think about the criticisms, UB, they're saying yeah he's doing really well but he's playing the Mavs, and the Mavs have no on that can guard him. It makes it sound like the Hornets are playing some hapless team like the Bobcats in the playoffs. The Mavs were in the NBA Finals very recently, and won over 50 games in a stacked Western Conference this year. If a team that has accomplished that much that recently can't guard the guy, then you know that there is something special about him.

This is the same guy who scored 33 points against Dallas on December 1st, way before the Kidd trade, and then had 21 against them in another game, so it's not like Harris, who is a good defender, was shutting him down during the regular season and he's only doing it because Kidd is there now.

Hicks
04-23-2008, 10:54 AM
How is Paul's defense? I thought I'd read/heard it wasn't that good. I'm not counting the steals, which are a big positive for him, but I am thinking of "can he guard his man" not "can he steal the ball from the other team twice a game".

Paul has been electric so far.

Unclebuck
04-23-2008, 11:02 AM
How is Paul's defense? I thought I'd read/heard it wasn't that good. I'm not counting the steals, which are a big positive for him, but I am thinking of "can he guard his man" not "can he steal the ball from the other team twice a game".

Paul has been electric so far.

He lead the NBA in steals, but I agree with you that doesn't equate to good defense. Paul's defense isn't the best - but I don't think it is terrible - he is certainly average (much better than Steve Nash) or even better than average. Not sure if Deron Williams defense is better than Paul's or not.

Twes
04-23-2008, 11:12 AM
Shouldn't this be moved to the playoff thread?

Where is an administrator when you need one.

rexnom
04-23-2008, 11:12 AM
He lead the NBA in steals, but I agree with you that doesn't equate to good defense. Paul's defense isn't the best - but I don't think it is terrible - he is certainly average (much better than Steve Nash) or even better than average. Not sure if Deron Williams defense is better than Paul's or not.
Not to continue the lovefest BUT also, Paul doesn't gamble unnecessarily to get his steals. He plays defense and then gets his because he's that good.

Shade
04-23-2008, 11:37 AM
Shouldn't this be moved to the playoff thread?

Where is an administrator when you need one.

The third button from the left on the left hand side, under each person's avatar, is the "report post" icon for that particular post. It looks like an exclamation point inside of a white triangle with red trim. Click it, and it'll send an e-mail to the admins. Contrary to popular belief, we are not cyborgs programmed to monitor the forum 24/7. :borg:

With that said, I think this particular discussion is focused enough (on one player rather than just the games in general) that it should remain a separate thread.

Los Angeles
04-23-2008, 11:38 AM
Paul is better than every player that wears a Pacer uniform.

That's the best I can do.

Los Angeles
04-23-2008, 11:41 AM
Shouldn't this be moved to the playoff thread?

Where is an administrator when you need one.

If you spend this much time worrying about how PD is administered, you're going to go insane in less than a week.

Let it go for sanity's sake. ;)

Ownagedood
04-23-2008, 11:46 AM
This good. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________________________________

JayRedd
04-23-2008, 11:50 AM
Does Paul have a weakness - I suppose he isn't a great three point shooter - but he doesn't need to be.

He shot 41.5% from three after the All Star break.

In fact, all his post-All Star stats are just utterly staggering.

21.9 ppg, 12.6 apg (2.3 TOpg), 2.9 spg, 50.7 FG%, 41.5 3PT%.

That's just absolutely, astoundingly, ridiculously absurd.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3930/splits;_ylt=AkDhEF2lcv6U2HMHqdN.SXCkvLYF


Until just recently I was saying that Deron Williams was better or at least just as good as Paul - no - and it really isn't close.

It's not even a debate.

The only people worth comparing CP3 to anymore are LeBron, Kobe and Timmy and maybe Dwyane.


Looking ahead I can't wait to see the Spurs play the Hornets (it is looking like that will be the second round series) because the Spurs are the best in the NBA at controling the other team's best player - but I don't know if Paul can be controlled.

I'm also looking forward to Hornets/Lakers.

Twes
04-23-2008, 11:50 AM
If you spend this much time worrying about how PD is administered, you're going to go insane in less than a week.

Let it go for sanity's sake. ;)

Just making a point.

You seem to be a little worried about what I'm worried about. :D

ARe you the PD PR guy?

Spicoli
04-23-2008, 11:53 AM
If you spend this much time worrying about how PD is administered, you're going to go insane in less than a week.

Let it go for sanity's sake. ;)


I was under the impression Twes has been off his meds for quite some time. Thus, he's far, far away from any semblance of sanity.


Oh, and on topic, Paul is really Fing good.

Twes
04-23-2008, 11:53 AM
The third button from the left on the left hand side, under each person's avatar, is the "report post" icon for that particular post. It looks like an exclamation point inside of a white triangle with red trim. Click it, and it'll send an e-mail to the admins. Contrary to popular belief, we are not cyborgs programmed to monitor the forum 24/7. :borg:

With that said, I think this particular discussion is focused enough (on one player rather than just the games in general) that it should remain a separate thread.

The Borg is a nice touch.

It brings to mind the story of the scorpion and the frog. :cool:

rexnom
04-23-2008, 11:55 AM
I'm also looking forward to Hornets/Lakers.
LOVE the overlooking the Spurs. Just because you jinxed them, they will now proceed to kick some Hornet ***.

JayRedd
04-23-2008, 11:56 AM
I've been on this New Orleans bandwagon since November.

Hell, I'm practically driving this thing.

rexnom
04-23-2008, 11:59 AM
I've been on this New Orleans bandwagon since November.

Hell, I'm practically driving this thing.
I'll signature bet you that the Spurs will beat the Hornets.

Twes
04-23-2008, 12:06 PM
I was under the impression Twes has been off his meds for quite some time. Thus, he's far, far away from any semblance of sanity.


Oh, and on topic, Paul is really Fing good.

That's right buddy. The damn co-pays really got out of hand and Geezer wasn't feeding me samples any more.

How much would you love to see Paul on the Pacers. It's been a long time since they had a star player that delivered like that.

rexnom
04-23-2008, 12:11 PM
That's right buddy. The damn co-pays really got out of hand and Geezer wasn't feeding me samples any more.

How much would you love to see A POINT GUARD on the Pacers. It's been a long time since they had a star player that delivered like that.
Fixed. I'll settle for Augustin.

JayRedd
04-23-2008, 12:35 PM
I'll signature bet you that the Spurs will beat the Hornets.

Done.

When I win, you write this in you sig until July 4.

"JayRedd is probably the smartest, handsomest and most amazing person I have ever known. His tears cure cancer and his voice sounds like what I imagine Heaven is like. I will forever humbly remember the day when he bequethed to me his infinite wisdom of the unmistakable glory that is Christopher Emmanuel Paul."

Twes
04-23-2008, 12:45 PM
Fixed. I'll settle for Augustin.

Sounds like Travis Best. :D

http://www.mynbadraft.com/NBA-Draft-Profiles-2008/D.J.-Augustin

Sollozzo
04-23-2008, 01:19 PM
Chris Paul will go down as one of the best players in the history of the game, we are lucky to watch him.

Trader Joe
04-23-2008, 01:27 PM
I've been on this New Orleans bandwagon since November.

Hell, I'm practically driving this thing.

I call shotty!

Dece
04-23-2008, 02:47 PM
Wade can't sniff CP3's jock, and you can tell him I said so. :)

naptownmenace
04-23-2008, 02:55 PM
He lead the NBA in steals, but I agree with you that doesn't equate to good defense. Paul's defense isn't the best - but I don't think it is terrible - he is certainly average (much better than Steve Nash) or even better than average. Not sure if Deron Williams defense is better than Paul's or not.

I've probably watched NO play at least 12 times this season and IMO, Chris Paul is the best defensive PG in the NBA. I honestly can't think of a single PG in the NBA that is a better defender or even on his level.

To be completely honest, he's the best PG in the league. I'd still vote for Kobe for MVP though for the simple fact that he held the team together through Bynum and Gasol's injuries and they wound up with the most wins in the West.

rexnom
04-23-2008, 03:14 PM
Done.

When I win, you write this in you sig until July 4.

"JayRedd is probably the smartest, handsomest and most amazing person I have ever known. His tears cure cancer and his voice sounds like what I imagine Heaven is like. I will forever humbly remember the day when he bequethed to me his infinite wisdom of the unmistakable glory that is Christopher Emmanuel Paul."
I took the classy route:
http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=38762

Btw, would Paul be better or worse if his name was Manu Paul?

Unclebuck
04-23-2008, 03:23 PM
I've probably watched NO play at least 12 times this season and IMO, Chris Paul is the best defensive PG in the NBA. I honestly can't think of a single PG in the NBA that is a better defender or even on his level.

To be completely honest, he's the best PG in the league. I'd still vote for Kobe for MVP though for the simple fact that he held the team together through Bynum and Gasol's injuries and they wound up with the most wins in the West.

I stand corrected, perhaps I should not have commented on his defense because his offense is so good I honestly hadn't paid much attention to his defense.

Do you think we could trade JO for him. OK, what if we include Jamaal. Still no?

Dece
04-23-2008, 03:38 PM
I don't think there's a player in the league with as much trade value as CP3. I honestly believe the Heat could offer NO Wade and the number 1 overall pick, and NO would still say no in roughly 2 seconds flat. They'd turn down Dwight and their first, they'd turn down Lebron. Lebron probably has the same trade value, but New Orleans needs CP3 more than they need Lebron, and they love him there.

naptownmenace
04-23-2008, 05:02 PM
I don't think there's a player in the league with as much trade value as CP3. I honestly believe the Heat could offer NO Wade and the number 1 overall pick, and NO would still say no in roughly 2 seconds flat. They'd turn down Dwight and their first, they'd turn down Lebron. Lebron probably has the same trade value, but New Orleans needs CP3 more than they need Lebron, and they love him there.

I love CP3 too but the only reason they turn down LeBron is because NO would have to add another player in the deal. I agree with everything else you said though.

Kofi
04-23-2008, 05:34 PM
If Chris Paul can continue his current play for another decade or so, he'll retire in the first tier of PG's with Magic and Oscar Robertson, a notch above Stockton, Kidd, Isiah, etc.

AesopRockOn
04-23-2008, 05:44 PM
Holding off judgment until they play a championship caliber team in round two.....

JayRedd
04-23-2008, 05:45 PM
Tony Parker is going to get his lunch money took.

AesopRockOn
04-23-2008, 05:55 PM
His shoes, coat, and hat too.

Robertmto
04-23-2008, 06:55 PM
I stand corrected, perhaps I should not have commented on his defense because his offense is so good I honestly hadn't paid much attention to his defense.

Do you think we could trade JO for him. OK, what if we include Jamaal. Still no?

Were you one of the ppl at the last Pizza King Forum Party that laughed at Tim saying we should trade JO for Paul?

I remember him saying it, and I remember being one of the only people who said the Ps should do it.

Hell Kegboy spilled his drink!!

Don't know if that was in disgust or what....

Hicks
04-23-2008, 08:16 PM
Wait, that was Tim? I thought it was none other than Unclebuck?

Robertmto
04-23-2008, 08:17 PM
Wait, that was Tim? I thought it was none other than Unclebuck?

I could be wrong. I have pretty bad memory, i just know it was brung up

Pacersfan46
04-23-2008, 09:30 PM
I had noticed his 2nd half of the year stats earlier this week. Nobody lose track of the fact that he could still be in college.

He's only 22, and is still learning. He should still get better. Scary. Sick. Disgusting.

-- Steve --

Unclebuck
04-24-2008, 07:46 AM
Were you one of the ppl at the last Pizza King Forum Party that laughed at Tim saying we should trade JO for Paul?

I remember him saying it, and I remember being one of the only people who said the Ps should do it.

Hell Kegboy spilled his drink!!

Don't know if that was in disgust or what....

As I remember that party, I was the one suggesting we should trade JO for a point guard (honestly don't remember if I mentioned Paul's name, but I mentioned Livingston and it might have been Paul) - Tim was the one who laughed at that suggestion.

rexnom
04-24-2008, 07:58 AM
I don't think JO ever had enough value to land us Chris Paul. Perhaps if we had traded into that 2005 draft (as we probably should have done while our assets still had value).

naptownmenace
04-24-2008, 10:50 AM
I don't think JO ever had enough value to land us Chris Paul. Perhaps if we had traded into that 2005 draft (as we probably should have done while our assets still had value).


I still can't believe that Atlanta passed up on him and Deron Williams! How you can keep your job after making such a collosal blunder if you're the GM and your team needs a PG and two great PGs are available is beyond me. And to pick another forward instead is just mind-boggling!

Unclebuck
04-24-2008, 11:03 AM
I still can't believe that Atlanta passed up on him and Deron Williams! How you can keep your job after making such a collosal blunder if you're the GM and your team needs a PG and two great PGs are available is beyond me. And to pick another forward instead is just mind-boggling!

I don't disagree with you. But if you look at it another way. I don't think the mistake was not taking a point guard. The mistake was thinking that Marvin Williams was going to be better than Paul or Deron Williams. I am a firm believer in always taking the best player available. I don't care if you have Clyde Drexler as your starting shooting guard, you always draft Michael Jordan. So even if the Hawks had Steve Nash starting and Jason Kidd backing him up - they still should have taken Chris Paul.

Whenever the Pacers pick in this years draft, they need to take whoever they believe will be the best player - I don't care if it is a small forward.

JayRedd
04-24-2008, 12:28 PM
But how can you pass up on Marvin Williams? I mean, he was a pretty okay 6th man at North Carolina some nights. That's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity right there.

Shade
04-24-2008, 12:38 PM
Wade can't sniff CP3's jock, and you can tell him I said so. :)

Let's wait and see if he can lead his team to a title first. (And, for what it's worth, I'm rooting for the Hornets to come out of the West).

Until then:

Wade 1
Paul 0

Shade
04-24-2008, 12:41 PM
As I remember that party, I was the one suggesting we should trade JO for a point guard (honestly don't remember if I mentioned Paul's name, but I mentioned Livingston and it might have been Paul) - Tim was the one who laughed at that suggestion.

UB, you were indeed the one who suggested trading JO for Paul. The general consensus at the party was not to trade big for small.

Of course, this was all before JO broke down and Paul became Superman in shorts.

LoneGranger33
04-24-2008, 02:48 PM
I still like Deron better, but unfortunately, my opinion means nothing.

esabyrn333
04-24-2008, 04:00 PM
I've probably watched NO play at least 12 times this season and IMO, Chris Paul is the best defensive PG in the NBA. I honestly can't think of a single PG in the NBA that is a better defender or even on his level.

To be completely honest, he's the best PG in the league. I'd still vote for Kobe for MVP though for the simple fact that he held the team together through Bynum and Gasol's injuries and they wound up with the most wins in the West.

If CP3 is the best defensive PG in the NBA and DJ Augustin is the same size as CP3 is 6' 0" 175. DJ Augusin is 6' 0" 180. I don't think everyone should say we pass on DJ due to his size. I am not saying he is going to be the next CP3 but we don't know he is going to be a bust either.

You can't bust on ATL for taking Marvin Williams over Paul because they considered Paul was undersized. Which was there reasoning BTW and then say we should draft DJ because he is to small to play PG in this league. This is not directed at you NaptownMeance its just a general view I have seen by alot of posters here.

Shade
04-24-2008, 04:20 PM
If CP3 is the best defensive PG in the NBA and DJ Augustin is the same size as CP3 is 6' 0" 175. DJ Augusin is 6' 0" 180. I don't think everyone should say we pass on DJ due to his size. I am not saying he is going to be the next CP3 but we don't know he is going to be a bust either.

You can't bust on ATL for taking Marvin Williams over Paul because they considered Paul was undersized. Which was there reasoning BTW and then say we should draft DJ because he is to small to play PG in this league. This is not directed at you NaptownMeance its just a general view I have seen by alot of posters here.

Augustin is 5'11". Paul is 6'1".

esabyrn333
04-25-2008, 07:52 AM
Augustin is 5'11". Paul is 6'1".


Chris Paul is not 6' 1" even his own website http://www.chrispaul3.com/ has him listed at 6' 175lbs

DJ Augustin is about 50/50 half the sites have him listed at 6' 180lbs or 5' 11" 180 my point is 1 inch makes very little diffrence. If CP3 can be the best defensive pg in the NBA and with the rules in the league with the hand check DJ can shine in this NBA.

If size is the only hit on him than I think the kid is going to be a solid starting pg in the NBA

It only took me 4 trys and 18 hours to reply to your post...ouch damn server

rexnom
04-25-2008, 10:21 AM
I like Augustin as well. I think he's a fair gamble. I'd rather gamble on a PG prospect than a Shawne Williams-esque prospect.

Wouldn't you guys have preferred that we rolled the dice with Rajon Rondo, Jordan Farmar, or Kyle Lowry over Shawne in 2006?

AesopRockOn
04-25-2008, 12:59 PM
Paul became Superman in shorts.

What's Dwight Howard supposed to wear?


Obviously we ****ed up on Rondo. Farmar seemed a little high at seventeen as far as I can remember what the experts were saying. But yeah, we haven't been great drafters.

Los Angeles
04-26-2008, 03:45 PM
Whenever the Pacers pick in this years draft, they need to take whoever they believe will be the best player - I don't care if it is a small forward.

For picks 1-10, I agree with your philosophy. However, there is a bit of an "apples and oranges" aspect to the draft. This is why top bigs and top point guards generally go higher than top wing players. By the time picks 11-20 come, odds are the players left with the most talent are SGs and SFs. In the Pacers' eternal mid-draft position, it would do tremendous harm to the franchise to not consider the team's needs on draft night.

I don't care if the best player left plays small forward, drafting a small forward when the second best player would better fill a need (or the needs of potential trading partners) is the better choice.

Then of course, there's the fact that all the players in the middle of the first round are "about equal" in terms of talent, and have a 50% chance of busting anyway.

Again, picks 1-10 and especially 1-5 should be a "best available player" decision. After that, it's a balancing act between team needs, talent, gut instinct and pure luck.

rexnom
04-26-2008, 04:25 PM
For picks 1-10, I agree with your philosophy. However, there is a bit of an "apples and oranges" aspect to the draft. This is why top bigs and top point guards generally go higher than top wing players. By the time picks 11-20 come, odds are the players left with the most talent are SGs and SFs. In the Pacers' eternal mid-draft position, it would do tremendous harm to the franchise to not consider the team's needs on draft night.

I don't care if the best player left plays small forward, drafting a small forward when the second best player would better fill a need (or the needs of potential trading partners) is the better choice.

Then of course, there's the fact that all the players in the middle of the first round are "about equal" in terms of talent, and have a 50% chance of busting anyway.

Again, picks 1-10 and especially 1-5 should be a "best available player" decision. After that, it's a balancing act between team needs, talent, gut instinct and pure luck.
Obviously if a guy like Danny Granger drops then you draft him even if you have an all-star (Artest) at his position.

Los Angeles
04-26-2008, 06:49 PM
Obviously if a guy like Danny Granger drops then you draft him even if you have an all-star (Artest) at his position.

Exactly. If the balance has shifted very heavily towards talent, as is the case when a top 10 caliber player falls, then the decision is easy.

That's not to say that drafting Danny didn't ALSO have a "team need" aspect. Artest had already acted like a crazy person and was actively being shopped. His expiration date on the team was looming, and we also didn't have an heir apparent SF on the team. If so, who was it? Bender?

BlueNGold
04-26-2008, 07:18 PM
I like Augustin as well. I think he's a fair gamble. I'd rather gamble on a PG prospect than a Shawne Williams-esque prospect.

Wouldn't you guys have preferred that we rolled the dice with Rajon Rondo, Jordan Farmar, or Kyle Lowry over Shawne in 2006?

Obviously, Rondo or Farmar would have been better picks for us. Williams is clearly redundant with Granger and Dunleavy. Even Quis and Graham fill the backup position at SF.

So, we definitely need to either trade one or more SF's or draft something other than another one. It's going to get pretty ridiculous when Dunleavy has to start guarding Dwight Howard. Seriously, this team is lopsided.

dohman
04-27-2008, 03:56 AM
chris paul is one of those players a coach only gets a chance to coach once in a lifetime.