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View Full Version : What point guards out there, who are not already the stars of their teams, take pride in their defense?



Hicks
04-17-2008, 09:04 PM
I know that's literally impossible to answer unless you know the player yourself, but what I mean is, who out there is known for playing solid or better defense as the point guard position, who isn't a star?

It sounds like if we're going to improve at the 1, trades is how it will be done, so I'd like to generate a list of the most likely (or least unlikely) suspects.

It's too bad we couldn't snag the 2003 version of Eric Strickland.

Or maybe we could trade back for AJ. :devil:

Shade
04-17-2008, 09:05 PM
Eric Snow? :devil:

sweabs
04-17-2008, 09:10 PM
I would not be terribly surprised to see TJ Ford available this offseason.

I don't think we should go for him...but I'm listing him as a PG who is potentially up for grabs.

Young
04-17-2008, 09:16 PM
Some possible guys could be Steve Blake, Jarrett Jack (not for sure how good his defense is though), Earl Watson (not my first choice), Kyle Lowry, Chris Duhon, and Ramon Sessions (like Jack i'm not for sure how good his defense is).

I would like to see us talk to the Grizzles about Lowry and Warrick.

Overall I think these could be the types of players the Pacers are looking at in terms of a point guard.

Hicks
04-17-2008, 09:16 PM
I would not be terribly surprised to see TJ Ford available this offseason.

I don't think we should go for him...but I'm listing him as a PG who is potentially up for grabs.

But does he play solid defense?

Aw Heck
04-17-2008, 09:23 PM
Mike James is a point guard that comes to mind. He's not really a great starter and he has turned out to be quite a journeyman. But on Detroit's 2004 championship team, he was one of "the pitbulls" (along with Lindsey Hunter) that could play one hell of a full court press. So he can play defense. He's also developed an offensive repertoire over the years.

However, he will be turning 33 this June. And I'm sure he would be reluctant to leave New Orleans right now (and I'm sure that they would be reluctant to deal him). And even if he could be had, he would probably be a short term solution. But it's not like we're going to be able to trade for our starting point guard of the future anyway.

Kyle Lowry is another possiblity. With Conley and Crittendon in Memphis, he won't get much playing time. He can play D. I'd say go after him if he's available and we don't have to give up too much.

Really, there are a lot of good defending PG's out there. I'm not sure if any of the ones that we could acquire would be long-term solutions however. I think we may have to keep hoping that we'll get lucky in the next few drafts.

sweabs
04-17-2008, 09:24 PM
But does he play solid defense?
Definitely not.

However, he is a starter in this league. I'm not sure if we're going to be able to pry away a starting PG from another team who plays solid defense.

Jose, on the other hand plays solid defense. Unfortunately, the Raptors aren't stupid and they'll keep him over TJ.

ajbry
04-17-2008, 09:24 PM
Anthony Carter (although he's certainly not starting material and wouldn't be a starter on any other team aside from Denver, but George Karl loves the guy); Brevin Knight (can pass and play some D... that's it); Kirk Hinrich used to take pride in defense but this year he tailed off on both ends of the floor; Antonio Daniels ain't half bad; and that's all I can think of quickly.

There's not much.

ajbry
04-17-2008, 09:25 PM
Definitely not.

However, he is a starter in this league. I'm not sure if we're going to be able to pry away a starting PG from another team who plays solid defense.

Jose, on the other hand plays solid defense. Unfortunately, the Raptors aren't stupid and they'll keep him over TJ.

Calderon's defense is dreadful. He just claps his hands (and probably makes noises too) as his man blazes past him on a nightly basis.

Kegboy
04-17-2008, 09:28 PM
Staying away from the AJ, Ollie, Bobbie Jackson mold, since we'd be better served getting a younger player.

Kyle Lowry (I wonder if Memphis would be interested in our pick so they could get CDR)
Antonio Daniels (seriously doubt we can get him)
Earl Watson (UB might get into trouble for constantly running onto the court and hugging him)
Janero Pargo (yep, I went there)
Chris Duhon (certainly available)
Marcus Banks
Tyron Lue

ajbry
04-17-2008, 09:31 PM
Lowry and Daniels are the best options. Watson would be solid but still a stop-gap, at best. The rest are unimpressive - Pargo is streaky as all hell and not a natural point; Duhon cares more about nightlife than basketball (not a redeeming quality for Pacers fans); Banks hasn't improved a bit; and Lue is aging rapidly.

sweabs
04-17-2008, 09:34 PM
Calderon's defense is dreadful. He just claps his hands (and probably makes noises too) as his man blazes past him on a nightly basis.
He gets burned by some quicker guards, but he's not as bad as you're making him out to be. He's also bigger (6'3) so he can guard the stronger guys and doesn't get taken to the low-post one on one.

Will Galen
04-17-2008, 09:40 PM
Dun for Hinrich works.

Suaveness
04-17-2008, 09:47 PM
I definitely wouldn't mind Hinrich

Hicks
04-17-2008, 09:49 PM
Hinrich would probably do well here, but I don't know if we have enough to offer the Bulls. But if they'd take Mike for him I think you have to do it.

Roaming Gnome
04-17-2008, 09:51 PM
Judging by what's out there in the league, I'm starting to think our best bet is to draft and develop a point guard that might be available to us on draft night or try to make a move for one of the guys higher the 11 on draft night. It seems like the PG's that can be had are 2nd and 3rd tier guys like Antonio Daniels, Earl Watson, Janero Pargo, Chris Duhon, Marcus Banks & Tyron Lue.

Eventhough the prospects of Kyle Lowery does intreague me and probably every other NBA GM that needs a 1.

QuickRelease
04-17-2008, 09:51 PM
I know that's literally impossible to answer unless you know the player yourself, but what I mean is, who out there is known for playing solid or better defense as the point guard position, who isn't a star?

It sounds like if we're going to improve at the 1, trades is how it will be done, so I'd like to generate a list of the most likely (or least unlikely) suspects.

It's too bad we couldn't snag the 2003 version of Eric Strickland.

Or maybe we could trade back for AJ. :devil:

Are you asking about likely trade targets? If so, I can't think of any. Rajon Rondo comes to mind as a non-star player who prides himself on defense. No chance at snagging him though.

Hicks
04-17-2008, 09:55 PM
I'm attempting a two-step process. First, generate all the people who fit my description.

Then decide what it would take to try to obtain one of them.

So far:

Marcus Banks
Jose Calderon
Anthony Carter
Antonio Daniels
Chris Duhon
Kirk Hinrich
Mike James
Marko Jaric
Brevin Knight
Kyle Lowry
Tyron Lue
Janero Pargo
Rajon Rondo
Eric Snow
Earl Watson
Delonte West

ajbry
04-17-2008, 09:59 PM
It would be relatively easy to acquire Hinrich now as opposed to a year ago considering his stock has dropped severely. However, he's a career 41% shooter and is an inconsistent outside threat who rarely goes to the line - is that really much different than JT? Granted his defense is much better (most of the time).

Kegboy
04-17-2008, 10:00 PM
I certainly hope Larry thinks more of Dunleavy than you guys. Hinrich's a bum, anybody who watched a single Bulls game this year knows that.

Grace says that even Paxson is smart enough to take that deal and run with it. Might point and laugh while he does it, too.

Hicks
04-17-2008, 10:01 PM
It would be relatively easy to acquire Hinrich now as opposed to a year ago considering his stock has dropped severely. However, he's a career 41% shooter and is an inconsistent outside threat who rarely goes to the line - is that really much different than JT? Granted his defense is much better (most of the time).

His defense and superior health are why I want him. I also wouldn't be shocked to see his percentage increase here. Jim seems to really get guys to practice a LOT on their jumpers. Besides that, Jim's offense gets people plenty of open looks.

ajbry
04-17-2008, 10:02 PM
Dunleavy really isn't that highly valued... The trade wouldn't even be feasible if they retain both Nocioni and Deng.

Hicks
04-17-2008, 10:02 PM
I certainly hope Larry thinks more of Dunleavy than you guys. Hinrich's a bum, anybody who watched a single Bulls game this year knows that.

Grace says that even Paxson is smart enough to take that deal and run with it. Might point and laugh while he does it, too.

I did not watch Hinrich basically at all this year. I keep hearing it was a bad year for him, but I would still like to think he's better than anything we have and still a starting-caliber player, right? Let alone if Jim does for him what he did for Mike in terms of making him look his best.

I think that, and if you welcome him to the team without expecting him to be a star, he could be a pleasant surprise.

ajbry
04-17-2008, 10:02 PM
His defense and superior health are why I want him. I also wouldn't be shocked to see his percentage increase here. Jim seems to really get guys to practice a LOT on their jumpers. Besides that, Jim's offense gets people plenty of open looks.

Very true. I like Kirk's game for the most part and he's always been a pretty tough player who is reliable.

Will Galen
04-17-2008, 10:03 PM
Judging by what's out there in the league, I'm starting to think our best bet is to draft and develop a point guard that might be available to us on draft night or try to make a move for one of the guys higher the 11 on draft night. It seems like the PG's that can be had are 2nd and 3rd tier guys like Antonio Daniels, Earl Watson, Janero Pargo, Chris Duhon, Marcus Banks & Tyron Lue.

Eventhough the prospects of Kyle Lowery does intreague me and probably every other NBA GM that needs a 1.

Two thoughts. If we take a point it will probably be with our second pick. And if Memphis gets the 2nd pick in the draft they would probably take Rose and then trade Conley.

Hicks
04-17-2008, 10:04 PM
Dunleavy really isn't that highly valued... The trade wouldn't even be feasible if they retain both Nocioni and Deng.

I wouldn't be surprised if they start Dunleavy at the "2" like we "sort of" do here. His deal is smaller than Kirk's and ends a year earlier. They could consider this deal if they felt OK with pairing Mike and Deng like we do Mike and Danny.

ajbry
04-17-2008, 10:08 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they start Dunleavy at the "2" like we "sort of" do here. His deal is smaller than Kirk's and ends a year earlier. They could consider this deal if they felt OK with pairing Mike and Deng like we do Mike and Danny.

They'd only do that if they kept Gordon and felt comfortable putting him at the 1, both of which are highly doubtful. The Bulls would have to be very sure of acquiring a solid PG via free agency or the draft.

Damn, maybe Dunleavy for Hinrich is a lot more delicate than originally thought.

Will Galen
04-17-2008, 10:12 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they start Dunleavy at the "2" like we "sort of" do here. His deal is smaller than Kirk's and ends a year earlier. They could consider this deal if they felt OK with pairing Mike and Deng like we do Mike and Danny.

The interesting thing with that deal is Hinrich's deal decreases. He has 4 more years at $10m, $9.5m, $9m, and $8m.

Dun's deal go's up, $9m, $9.8 and $10.5.

mrknowname
04-17-2008, 10:14 PM
i know this isn't the trade section, but i was thinking of

JO/tinsley/ike for hinrich/gooden/thomas/hughes and we swap picks with each other

Will Galen
04-17-2008, 10:14 PM
They'd only do that if they kept Gordon and felt comfortable putting him at the 1, both of which are highly doubtful. The Bulls would have to be very sure of acquiring a solid PG via free agency or the draft.

Damn, maybe Dunleavy for Hinrich is a lot more delicate than originally thought.

They also might hire Carlisle and they would have his input, for good or bad.

Kegboy
04-17-2008, 10:16 PM
I did not watch Hinrich basically at all this year. I keep hearing it was a bad year for him, but I would still like to think he's better than anything we have and still a starting-caliber player, right? Let alone if Jim does for him what he did for Mike in terms of making him look his best.

I think that, and if you welcome him to the team without expecting him to be a star, he could be a pleasant surprise.

He basically gave up on the season in November. If we're shopping for a new point, I'd like one who can be a leader, or at least someone that doesn't start mailing it in before Ben Wallace.

Dece
04-17-2008, 10:17 PM
Dunleavy isn't as valuable as Hinrich, their respective breakout and slump years not with standing. Every team in the league has a pretty decent small forward, plenty of usually bad teams are in need of a point man. Its simple supply and demand, if you want to trade a 3 for a 1, you are going to take a large hit in relative player quality.

grace
04-17-2008, 10:21 PM
He basically gave up on the season in November. If we're shopping for a new point, I'd like one who can be a leader, or at least someone that doesn't start mailing it in before Ben Wallace.

If you want a leader you certainly DO NOT want Kirk Heinrich.

Kemo
04-17-2008, 10:26 PM
I personally don't care who we trade to get what we need in a defensive point guard to split time with Diener , or in a defensive monster at PF or preferrably Center...

BUT , I SIMPLY DO NOT , want Dunleavy , Granger , or Diener , to be traded ... PERIOD !!!!!!!

Those are my 3 favorite Pacers players , and I would not only be devastated if they got traded , but I probably would lose interest in the Pacer's alltogether..
There is no one I would rather have on our team (aside from the obvious , Lebron , Kobe , etc superstars.. duh) , that we could possibly get in return for them , and talk of Dunleavy for Hinnrich , is blasphemy .. while he is a good enough ballplayer, there is no way IN HELL , that I would let Dunleavy go for him... PERIOD !!!!

If the Pacer's organization actually made that trade , I think my days of supporting this team would come to a quick halt..

Kemo
04-17-2008, 10:28 PM
i know this isn't the trade section, but i was thinking of

JO/tinsley/ike for hinrich/gooden/thomas/hughes and we swap picks with each other


I would rather EAT PUKE than see Gooden every game with his "droopy the dog " baggy dark circled eyes and Mennonite looking beard in a Pacer's uniform

carpediem024
04-17-2008, 10:29 PM
Steve Blake plays defense.

ajbry
04-17-2008, 10:30 PM
Steve Blake plays defense.

He's also a journeyman who has never proven to be anything more than a decent backup and spot starter. The Pacers don't need that again.

D-BONE
04-17-2008, 10:31 PM
I would rather EAT PUKE than see Gooden with his Mennonite looking beard in a Pacer's uniform

Okay. Anything else other than his style of facial hair that doesn't endear you to him?

Kemo
04-17-2008, 10:32 PM
Okay. Anything else other than his style of facial hair that doesn't endear you to him?


He is an alright enough player I guess , I just really don't care for him , and his look doesnt help lol

Doddage
04-17-2008, 10:32 PM
i know this isn't the trade section, but i was thinking of

JO/tinsley/ike for hinrich/gooden/thomas/hughes and we swap picks with each other
That would be robbery on our end. Not only are we dumping two of our worst contracts on them, but we're ALSO getting their better pick. Ike is simply not sweet enough to make such a deal go down.

But trading JO should not be discussed unless we're receiving Starbury's expiring contract. That is only deal I'm interested in, since we couldn't get anything better than that.

Rajah Brown
04-17-2008, 10:33 PM
Considering Da Bulls are already paying Hughes $12 mil or $14mil
or whatever it is per year to play SG, I doubt they'd have much
interst in another guy making $10mil to play the same spot.

grace
04-17-2008, 10:34 PM
Steve Blake plays defense.

As the resident Trailblazers fan I'm telling you that you can't have him.

Robertmto
04-17-2008, 10:40 PM
Antonio Daniels (seriously doubt we can get him)


I bet you could, rumor is he wants an extension and Jordan isn't buyin in to given him one.

Roaming Gnome
04-17-2008, 11:57 PM
As the resident Trailblazers fan I'm telling you that you can't have him.

Isn't he about due to move onto his next stop like the guy that plays for the Clippers right now? Damn, I forgot his name... You know, the guy that shut Nowitzski's fingers in a car door a few years back.

Roaming Gnome
04-17-2008, 11:59 PM
I bet you could, rumor is he wants an extension and Jordan isn't buyin in to given him one.

In your opinion, do you think Daniels is solid enough to be a teams primary starter? Is he still more of a shoot first type guy?

Mr. Sobchak
04-18-2008, 12:12 AM
In your opinion, do you think Daniels is solid enough to be a teams primary starter? Is he still more of a shoot first type guy?

Maybe for a year. He'll be 34 next season.

Hicks
04-18-2008, 12:17 AM
They'd only do that if they kept Gordon and felt comfortable putting him at the 1, both of which are highly doubtful. The Bulls would have to be very sure of acquiring a solid PG via free agency or the draft.

Damn, maybe Dunleavy for Hinrich is a lot more delicate than originally thought.

Either Gordon starts at 1, or he stays a 6th man and they acquire a new PG either from the draft or a trade. Are they down on Duhon, or would he be the new starter?

Hicks
04-18-2008, 12:20 AM
Considering Da Bulls are already paying Hughes $12 mil or $14mil
or whatever it is per year to play SG, I doubt they'd have much
interst in another guy making $10mil to play the same spot.

Yeah, I forgot about Hughes. Of course, once upon a time wasn't he thought to be a combo guard?

Robertmto
04-18-2008, 12:22 AM
In your opinion, do you think Daniels is solid enough to be a teams primary starter? Is he still more of a shoot first type guy?


Well judging by this year, you can't say he changed his ways as a shoot first guard. Of course he started most of the year and probably took about the 3rd most shots a game (behind Jamison and Stevenson) but that was only because of injuries. He passed the ball alot more and looked to push the ball up quickly and look for the open man in this new "up tempo" offense we went to with Butler and Arenas out.

He steadily looked to deliver entry passes to Haywood, and shot his average, probably 10 times a game

EDIT: But to answer your question, Daniels would unquestionably be the starter on the Pacers

SoupIsGood
04-18-2008, 12:24 AM
Gordon and Dun as the starting guards? They would get toasted on D.

The prospects for getting a PG in trade look pretty bleak, except for maybe Lowry. I'd like to draft one. But then again, I don't want us to make a stupid pick just to snag a PG...

Anthem
04-18-2008, 12:44 AM
J.Jack.

Kofi
04-18-2008, 12:57 AM
Jordan Farmar from the Lakers is probably a better PG prospect than anyone available at #11.

Taterhead
04-18-2008, 01:05 AM
Seattle is looking to dump salary

How about Marquis Daniels for Earl Watson?

grace
04-18-2008, 02:44 AM
Isn't he about due to move onto his next stop like the guy that plays for the Clippers right now? Damn, I forgot his name... You know, the guy that shut Nowitzski's fingers in a car door a few years back.

Well, if Kevin asks my opinion I'm going to tell him not to let him leave.

Kofi
04-18-2008, 03:09 AM
Hinrich has really been exposed for the average player that he is. He's also overpaid. After this past season, I'd argue Dunleavy has considerably better value.

Murphy + Ike is fair value for Hinrich. One overpaid, average player for another overpaid, average player. Ike is just (artificial?) sweetener.

Jose Slaughter
04-18-2008, 03:11 AM
I'd like to add 2 other names to your list.

Delonte West
Marko Jaric

Unclebuck
04-18-2008, 09:06 AM
I would be thrilled to get Hinrich. He is a good defender - that would be an immediate and significant update from a defensive standpoint.

He typically guarded the better offensive player for the Bulls (better of the two guards) I was trying to remember who he guarded in the playoffs the last couple of seasons and did a very credible job - it might have been Wade.

Hinrich isn't a pure point guard, and for some reason his shooting % really suffered this past season.

Lowery - I don't know much about him, in Wells article today he says he is defensive minded - OK. I know he had several good games. My thoughts are he isn't a good shooter nor much of a passer. he has some quickness though

Speed
04-18-2008, 11:09 AM
What about Duhon?

Unclebuck
04-18-2008, 11:22 AM
What about Duhon?

The problem with him and a lot of the other point guards we are discussing in this thread, is they are all fine for backups - and if we tried them as a starter, we'll always be hoping for someone better

Naptown_Seth
04-18-2008, 01:02 PM
Brevin Knight (can pass and play some D... that's it);
I wanted them to try and deal with Charlotte to get him on an SnT but of course it didn't happen. The guy did exactly what they needed this year. Argh.


I want Shawne to stay, but you can see where it might make sense to swap him for Lowry to both sides.

Kofi
04-18-2008, 01:28 PM
Knight is a career back-up. He's only marginally better than Diener, and a vastly inferior shooter. It's pretty sad our PG situation is so bad that guys like Brevin Knight and Earl Watson are desired.


Maybe we could convince Boston to give up Rondo for Tinsley and the 11th pick.

grace
04-18-2008, 01:36 PM
What about Duhon?

If the Pacers trade for him he'll be the next Pacer in the news and it won't be in a good way.

tadscout
04-18-2008, 02:02 PM
I want Shawne to stay, but you can see where it might make sense to swap him for Lowry to both sides.

:ding:

Will Galen
04-18-2008, 02:02 PM
I'm attempting a two-step process. First, generate all the people who fit my description.

Then decide what it would take to try to obtain one of them.

So far:

Marcus Banks
Jose Calderon
Anthony Carter
Antonio Daniels
Chris Duhon
Kirk Hinrich
Mike James
Marko Jaric
Brevin Knight
Kyle Lowry
Tyron Lue
Janero Pargo
Rajon Rondo
Eric Snow
Earl Watson
Delonte West

We've talked about Hinrich. The other one I like is Jose Calderon, probably better than Hinrich. His situation is he's sharing equal time with T.J. Ford. He's a restricted free agent this summer and he'll probably want Ford money.

The question is, since Ford made $8.2m this year can Toronto afford to pay two point guards $16m? Of course they wouldn't want to do that, so would they be interested in a sigh and trade for Dun?

Dun would probably work just as well in Toronto's system as he does in ours, and I know they would be interested. The problem there is if it comes down to one point guard the rumor is they would be more interested in keeping Josh. So they would probably want to do that deal but with Ford instead of Jose. That's not going to happen though.

So two questions. Would Dun be a big enough carrot? And is Josh a good defensive guard?

Tom White
04-18-2008, 02:11 PM
It's pretty sad our PG situation is so bad that guys like Brevin Knight and Earl Watson are desired.

Sometimes I get the feeling that the reason posters like them so much is that they play for someone else. Sort of a "the grass is always greener" syndrome.

Slick Pinkham
04-18-2008, 02:37 PM
I would love to get Lowry. He was injured two seasons ago but seemed completely recovered this year. When he gets minutes, he produces very well. He was a solid player on my fantasy team all year, and Memphis has so much backcourt depth that they might be up for it.

Memphis doesn't want to take on salary, though. It would have to be a draft pick deal or a rookie contract. Nice call on the hometown guy for them, Shawne. Makes sense to me...

CableKC
04-18-2008, 02:45 PM
Seattle is looking to dump salary

How about Marquis Daniels for Earl Watson?
That's what I was thinking. The Sonics are looking to move salary.....Marquis is pretty much an Expiring contract but Watson is guaranteed an additional $6mil next season.

I would hope that if there was a deal involving Marquis for Watson that there would be some "sweetner" from Seattle since Indy would be taking on an additional $6 mil in guaranteed $$ owed.

CableKC
04-18-2008, 06:36 PM
What about:


Marquis+Ike

for

Watson+Griffin+2008 2nd Round Pick ( #32 )

We instantly upgrade our defense at the Guard rotation and get an early 2nd round pick. The cost? About $2-3 mil in Guaranteed Contract while cutting about $1.5 mil off of the 2008-2009 Salarycap.

Taterhead
04-18-2008, 07:54 PM
Knight is a career back-up. He's only marginally better than Diener, and a vastly inferior shooter. It's pretty sad our PG situation is so bad that guys like Brevin Knight and Earl Watson are desired.


Maybe we could convince Boston to give up Rondo for Tinsley and the 11th pick.

Why would Boston give up Rondo and take on Tinsley's deal to go along with KG, Pierce and Allen's huge deals? Plus salaries have to match anyways.

Earl Watson would be a huge upgrade over what we have. He is a pretty good starting PG. Then you could move Tinsley to the bench and when he gets hurt you go to Diener. That is when of course we yet again find no takers for him and his contract this offseason.

Rondo was a mid first rounder if I remember correctly, so why give up #11 for him.

Taterhead
04-18-2008, 07:56 PM
What about:


Marquis+Ike

for

Watson+Griffin+2008 2nd Round Pick ( #32 )

We instantly upgrade our defense at the Guard rotation and get an early 2nd round pick. The cost? About $2-3 mil in Guaranteed Contract while cutting about $1.5 mil off of the 2008-2009 Salarycap.

That is actually a pretty good realistic trade. At #32 you could land a steal and Watson is a solid and steady PG, especially for a team that will likely have Granger, Dunleavy and O'neal taking the majority of the shots.

Alpolloloco
04-18-2008, 08:25 PM
I'm surprised Devin Harris' name hasn't come up until now.

JayRedd
04-18-2008, 08:25 PM
In your opinion, do you think [Antonio] Daniels is solid enough to be a teams primary starter?

God no. And I like the guy.


Jordan Farmar from the Lakers is probably a better PG prospect than anyone available at #11.

He certainly is. And LA is not trading him.


Maybe we could convince Boston to give up Rondo for Tinsley and the 11th pick.

I hope you're kidding. Or drunk.

The only way we can get Rajon Rondo is with a time machine.


The other one I like is Jose Calderon, probably better than Hinrich. His situation is he's sharing equal time with T.J. Ford. He's a restricted free agent this summer and he'll probably want Ford money.

The question is, since Ford made $8.2m this year can Toronto afford to pay two point guards $16m?

Colangelo has stated on several occasions that he is matching any offer sheet presented to Jose. Calderon is not an even marginally realistic option.

TJ Ford is a certainly a possibility.

But after Tinsley, JO, Bender, et al, it's hard to believe there is a single Pacer fan or front office exec in Conseco that would be interested in rolling the dice on a dude with spinal stenosis.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/25/sports/basketball/25ford.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

http://www.spinalstenosis.org/index.php


I'm surprised Devin Harris' name hasn't come up until now.

NJ just traded for him as their PG of the future. I can't see them trading him again. Not for anything on our roster anyway.

I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer here...there just aren't many great options for us.

The Blakes, Duhons, Banks', Watsons and Brevin Knights of the world are of course possibilities, but none of those are real difference-makers outside of the first two...and even they are just marginal stop-gaps.

Hinrich would be a huge upgrade for us, but as others have said, I'm not even sure he's a great value. Regardless, he'd be a good pick-up. I wouldn't trade Dun Jr. for him though.

SoupIsGood
04-19-2008, 01:04 AM
Did we pass on Rondo, or was he taken before us?

He was the guy I really wanted us to draft, that year.

Dece
04-19-2008, 01:09 AM
We passed on Rondo, stupidly I might add, so we could add yet another small forward to our lineup in Williams. Lord knows the NBA revolves around small forwards.

SoupIsGood
04-19-2008, 01:11 AM
Damn. I really wanted Rondo that year. I really wanted Kevin Martin when he was in the draft, too, but at least I could take solace in the fact that he went before us.

CableKC
04-19-2008, 01:15 AM
The problem with him and a lot of the other point guards we are discussing in this thread, is they are all fine for backups - and if we tried them as a starter, we'll always be hoping for someone better


I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer here...there just aren't many great options for us.

The Blakes, Duhons, Banks', Watsons and Brevin Knights of the world are of course possibilities, but none of those are real difference-makers outside of the first two...and even they are just marginal stop-gaps.

Hinrich would be a huge upgrade for us, but as others have said, I'm not even sure he's a great value. Regardless, he'd be a good pick-up. I wouldn't trade Dun Jr. for him though.
Short of some miracle ( landing a draft pick high enough to draft Rose or Bayless or trading for a top notch PG ), we're in no position ( little to no salary cap flexiblity with no tradeable assets ) right now or even the near future to get the type of PG that would be an impact player.

Maybe the best that we can hope for is to get the type of PG that could share the minutes with Diener and complement his game.

To me....it's more realistic to expect to get the best "backup PG" that can fit our needs then to expect an impact PG that will make the level of difference that many of you are hoping for.

With that said......if you had to choose the best PG that is realistically attainable....which one would you want that would actually complement Diener and what we are trying to do for the next 2 seasons?

Tom White
04-19-2008, 09:43 AM
I'm surprised Devin Harris' name hasn't come up until now.

New Jersey just got him. He is (I think) a big part of their future.

Why in the world would they let go of him?

Kegboy
04-19-2008, 09:56 AM
We passed on Rondo, stupidly I might add, so we could add yet another small forward to our lineup in Williams. Lord knows the NBA revolves around small forwards.

Yes, and we also passed on Jordan Farmar and Marcus Williams.

:disappoin

Rajah Brown
04-19-2008, 10:00 AM
None of the PG's listed in this thread other than Hinrich are worth
giving anything of value up for. The others are all what I'd call
'1A or 1B' solutions who could be coupled with Diener in tag-team
fashion to try and man the PG ship until we can find a way to
aquire a PG capable of staring for and running a competing team.

Foye might be another guy who'd fit that bill. But I haven't seen
him enough the last couple years to know if he still has a score-
first mentality or is evolving into a true PG.

Kegboy
04-19-2008, 10:08 AM
None of the PG's listed in this thread other than Hinrich are worth
giving anything of value up for. The others are all what I'd call
'1A or 1B' solutions who could be coupled with Diener in tag-team
fashion to try and man the PG ship until we can find a way to
aquire a PG capable of staring for and running a competing team.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

The simple truth is, beggars can't be choosers.

If a real, honest to goodness starting-caliber PG falls in our lap, great. But I'd rather get a solid, defensive-minded backup who can balance the rotation than reach for someone like Augustin even though he'll most likely be a horrible defensive liability in the pros.

esabyrn333
04-19-2008, 10:14 AM
I would like to get Heinrich I think he would do well here. I don't know if we could get him or not. If not I hope we make a strong push for Kyle Lowry. I think he would give us the defensive presence we need with our starting 5