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Ownagedood
04-17-2008, 03:41 PM
Now I just so happened to notice something today.. We are all really hard on Tinsley and saying how much he sucks and how much he hurts us.. But guys, that is totally wrong.

I noticed today that JT is the type of PG that we have been saying that we need.. If he stays healthy we will be so much better, and when healthy, he's easily a top 10 PG in the league. Ya, he takes too many shots at times.. But he's better then most PG's out there so I won't complain about it.

In his 39 games he played this year.. He averaged 11.9 PPG 8.4 APG 3.6 RPG 1.7 SPG. His shooting percentage is not good, but that's about it. If he wasn't injured this year, there is no doubt in my mind we would be a whole other team, a much better one.. Don't give him away in the off season for nothing.. He can still be of value, you can trade him, just make sure your getting a little something in return. He may be able to get over the injury bug with the long rest he got this last year, who knows..

duke dynamite
04-17-2008, 03:50 PM
I agree with you on his skills and what-not, but most of us are hard on him for letting us down year after year.

When he addresses the media at the beginning of the season and says he is healthy, then goes off and gets himself in another sticky situation, then gets injured...that is frustrating.

I'm only harsh on him because of that. I really thought this year would be the "Year of a healthy #11"

It's just disappointing, you know?

Ownagedood
04-17-2008, 03:54 PM
I agree with you on his skills and what-not, but most of us are hard on him for letting us down year after year.

When he addresses the media at the beginning of the season and says he is healthy, then goes off and gets himself in another sticky situation, then gets injured...that is frustrating.

I'm only harsh on him because of that. I really thought this year would be the "Year of a healthy #11"

It's just disappointing, you know?
Ya, I agree. I'm not against trading him, just trying to remind everyone he is a good ball player and shouldn't just be given away for anything like everyone is saying.

Ragnar
04-17-2008, 04:00 PM
The problem with Jamaal is health plain and simple. If he is not going to be available down the stretch we dont need him. Jamaal is my favorite (current) Pacer but I need him in the playoff not in street clothes watching us get eliminated because he was out most of the season.

Since86
04-17-2008, 04:05 PM
Now I just so happened to notice something today.. We are all really hard on Tinsley and saying how much he sucks and how much he hurts us.. But guys, that is totally wrong.

I noticed today that JT is the type of PG that we have been saying that we need.. If he stays healthy we will be so much better, and when healthy, he's easily a top 10 PG in the league. Ya, he takes too many shots at times.. But he's better then most PG's out there so I won't complain about it.

In his 39 games he played this year.. He averaged 11.9 PPG 8.4 APG 3.6 RPG 1.7 SPG. His shooting percentage is not good, but that's about it. If he wasn't injured this year, there is no doubt in my mind we would be a whole other team, a much better one.. Don't give him away in the off season for nothing.. He can still be of value, you can trade him, just make sure your getting a little something in return. He may be able to get over the injury bug with the long rest he got this last year, who knows..


The bolded part is your problem. Is he truly unheathly or is it a mixture of his unwillingness to play and injuries?

The timing of him going down for the rest of the season, and his 'disagreement' with JOB says volumes, atleast to me anyways. It was always speculated that his sinus problems were coverup for his inability to get a long with Rick.

Either way, it doesn't matter. He's unreliable and we can't get a bag of those free peanuts they were giving away last night for him.

Toss in his off the court problems he's had and you have a clear cut case of why he needs to be shown the door, and kicked in the *** when he walks out.

ABADays
04-17-2008, 04:13 PM
This man has represented the Pacers in the worst possible ways imaginable. He will go down as one of the most loathed players in franchise history.

Unclebuck
04-17-2008, 04:15 PM
We need defense and Jamaal does not provide that

RamBo_Lamar
04-17-2008, 04:21 PM
I've tried to remain supportive of Tins, however now believe he needs to
either be traded, negotiate a buyout, or be moved somehow.

This 8-Second Saloon business is still hanging over his head for the next 2
years almost, and all it will take is one more incident to bring all that back
up.

I also believe he bore some responsibility for Joe Qatato catching a bullet
in his elbow.

Thanks to some of his off-court antics, whether right or wrong, many in the
community dislike Tins and associate him with being a thug. He is part of
why potential fans have been staying away from going to games.

It is now time for "Dustpan" Tinsley to find a new home so the team can
move forward in a new direction.

Rajah Brown
04-17-2008, 04:24 PM
After 5-6 yrs of 'not' staying healthy, what would cause anyone
to think that's suddenly going to change ? It's not like he's
gonna get any younger or undergo some kind of body-type
metamorphisis.

aceace
04-17-2008, 04:32 PM
We need defense and Jamaal does not provide that... and a PG that shoots much better and stays away from trouble.

Hicks
04-17-2008, 04:43 PM
When he's healthy AND focused, he's a very good PG on offense. But even then, and that's rare enough, he's still a bad defender.

CableKC
04-17-2008, 04:52 PM
We need defense and Jamaal does not provide that
It's pretty clear to me that what we need ( first and foremost ) is a Starting Quality PG that can actually play ahead of or next to Diener in the PG rotation that can effectively run the point. To me, having a PG that can do all the things that JO'B ( and most of us here ) wants in his PGs....one that can score, run the point effectively to keep the ball-movement going while pushing the ball up the court as quickly as possible and ( most notably ) can provide some decent Defense....is a luxury that we not only cannot afford but realistically cannot get at this point given our Financial and roster limitations.

I am all for moving Tinsley if that is possible at all. But honestly, if he is on the roster at the beginning of Training Camp.....I won't be surprised nor would I be entirely disappointed. As long as we get a solid perimeter defender at the Guard rotation ( Westbrook, Rush, Weaver or signing Quinton Ross:pray: ) and some additional help in the Defensive Frontcourt to help out JONeal and Foster.....then I will tolerate a Tinsley/Diener backcourt mainly cuz I don't really have a choice.

As Ownagedood mentioned in his post.....Tinsley played REALLY good at the 1st QTR of the season....then went off the deep end against the Suns ( which I think JO'B shares some if not most of the blame ). It can even be argued that if Tinsley was starting at the Point ( insteaad of Flip ) that I think that we could have won a few more games to push us into the Playoffs.

What we really needed in the 2nd half of the season ( and what we need going forward ) is a Starting Quality PG. If one cannot be acquired in the offseason....then I think that Tinsley could fit that bill.

OakMoses
04-17-2008, 05:34 PM
1. Tinsley is injured constantly.

2. Tinsley is a head case.

3. Tinsley does not play defense at anywhere near the level of his physical capabilities. This is indicative of a lack of effort and desire, which to me is unacceptable in someone who's signed to a lucrative long-term contract.

4. Tinsley has not gotten along with any of the three coaches the Pacers have had since he's been here.

5. Tinsley has failed to improve his shooting ability since coming into the league. This also demonstrates a lack of effort.

6. Tinsley calls his own number too much at the end of the games and is not a great clutch player.

7. Tinsley's distribution of the ball is not always to the player who has the best shot and he often eschews the idea of ball movement in favor of trying to individually create a shot for himself or another player. He also seems to ignore certain players at times.

8. The fans in Indianapolis hate Tinsley, and attendence is a big problem.

9. Tinsley has a history of bad off-court decision making that has happened too frequently for him to be considered blameless in all accounts.

Those, in a nutshell, are my reasons for never wanting to see Tinsley play a game in a Pacers uniform again. I know that he is a talented player. I know what he can bring to the table when he is right both physically and mentally. At the same time, I'll never forget hearing Ric Bucher say in an interview that Ron Artest wasn't even the craziest player on the Pacers roster, and then pointing that finger at Tinsley.

Will Galen
04-17-2008, 06:05 PM
I noticed today that JT is the type of PG that we have been saying that we need..

Most of us have been saying we need a point guard that can stop penetration, Tinsley can't.

NapTonius Monk
04-17-2008, 08:03 PM
When a player's entire career has hinged on the word "IF", you can't have that every year. You can't pass up on opportunities to improve, relying on a guy who you don't know if he'll show up for you. You look at the good teams, their main guys are mainstays mentally, and physically, more often than not. I like Tinsley; I think he's a good player when he wants to be, but if we're going to move forward, we have to have people in place who we can depend on.

Shade
04-17-2008, 08:43 PM
Tinsley will never be healthy again. Neither will JO. They're just injury-prone. It's just time to accept this and move on.

owl
04-17-2008, 08:58 PM
Tinsley being hurt is the last reason he might not be here next year.
Tinsley almost got several people killed. Joe is very lucky to be alive today.
If people think there is a dark cloud over the Pacers can you imagine what the cloud would be
like if someone had died? Tinsley needs a new home for Pacers and the communities sake.
He should be gone.

Dece
04-17-2008, 10:22 PM
Tinsley almost got several people killed. Joe is very lucky to be alive today.



I can't believe people still find a way to say Tinsley is responsible for someone owning an AK47, tailing him, and opening fire. If anything I see it as an indictment of your city more than Jamaal. Never heard of anyone shooting at anyone in the entire state of Iowa with an AK. Reasonably is it your state or city's fault? No, not at all, it's the fault of one deranged person, but this argument is just as good or better than one stating it's Tin man's fault.

Doddage
04-17-2008, 10:26 PM
Too much of a liability... simple as that.

I do agree, though, that JT is the perfect PG for this system and its players. That's why we need to seek to look for a PG with comparable abilities as JT (posting up, good court vision, etc.) as well as one that can play some respectable defense. That task is certainly easier said than done.

MagicRat
04-17-2008, 10:49 PM
If they trade Jamaal, who's going to make funny faces for all of the sick babies at Riley?............
http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/jtriley.jpg

Ownagedood
04-17-2008, 10:53 PM
If they trade Jamaal, who's going to make funny faces for all of the sick babies at Riley?............
http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/jtriley.jpg
Good point. Unless we are able to find a nice prospect through the draft. :D

Taterhead
04-18-2008, 01:22 AM
I can't believe people still find a way to say Tinsley is responsible for someone owning an AK47, tailing him, and opening fire. If anything I see it as an indictment of your city more than Jamaal. Never heard of anyone shooting at anyone in the entire state of Iowa with an AK. Reasonably is it your state or city's fault? No, not at all, it's the fault of one deranged person, but this argument is just as good or better than one stating it's Tin man's fault.

It's his fault for not taking his profession more seriously and being in bed. Anyone who lives in Indy knows the part of town Jamal was in that night is not where you want to be. He had already been involved in an incident at a bar on the same street less than a year earlier. He is probably pretty street smart being from the projects in NYC, he should know better, IMO.

Is it too much to ask that when you pay someone over 40 million dollars that they are in bed early and focus on thier job instead of the lifestyle? For god's sake he only has to do it for 6 months a year! I am convinced that Jamal has NO interest in reaching his full potential on the court, he just wants to enjoy his celebrity status. After all, his improvement as a player has been non existant since his rookie season.

Taterhead
04-18-2008, 01:24 AM
Too much of a liability... simple as that.

I do agree, though, that JT is the perfect PG for this system and its players. That's why we need to seek to look for a PG with comparable abilities as JT (posting up, good court vision, etc.) as well as one that can play some respectable defense. That task is certainly easier said than done.

When Jamal first came into the league I thought of a quicker version of Mark Jackson, too bad he doesn't have Mark's brain, character and work ethic.

Unclebuck
04-18-2008, 09:12 AM
Jim O'Brien pretty much just close this topic. Tinsley does not fit into the Pacers future plans. No reason to ever discuss Tinsley again.

Speed
04-18-2008, 11:07 AM
Injuries aside, take off court stuff out of the equation.

Even at his best, he's not what I want in general.

He takes bad shots, tries to take over at the end of games instead of getting others easy shots, can't keep his guy in front of him.

I question his off season dedication. I question his leadership. I question his maturity on the court. I question his TRUE mental toughness, not the fake one upmanship when he feels dissed.

Tinsley has the skill set, he has the physical ability. I think he probably has top 7 or 8 handles in the league, but it doesn't translate when he plays to making guys around him better, consistently.

I'll say it again, even when he was statistically playing great to start this season, it bothered me that he'd take every shot in the 4th quarter, he was still below average defensively, even though he seemed to be trying.

The first part of this season was the equivalent when you shoot a jumper and it banks in, when you were not trying to bank it, at all. The results were perfect, but you really can't feel good about how it happened. :)

Bye JT, we'll always have the dustpan at the Palace and we'll always have "and 1, mother f er"