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View Full Version : Where does Granger rank in the recap of the 2005 draft?



Trader Joe
04-16-2008, 01:01 PM
Obviously the top two in the draft looking back were CP3 and Deron, but after that I think its a toss up for the third spot between Danny, Monta Ellis, and maybe Bynum assuming he comes back healthy.
Thoughts?

Kofi
04-16-2008, 01:06 PM
I'm not entirely sold on Deron Williams going ahead of Bynum. Williams is good, but Bynum has shown he has the skills, size, and work ethic to be a dominant center.

I was leaning towards Ellis going 4th, but with the way Danny has looked on offense and with his far superior size and defense, I'm not entirely sold on it. Bogut is also up there.

Anthem
04-16-2008, 01:41 PM
Top 5 sounds pretty reasonable.

count55
04-16-2008, 01:42 PM
Obviously the top two in the draft looking back were CP3 and Deron, but after that I think its a toss up for the third spot between Danny, Monta Ellis, and maybe Bynum assuming he comes back healthy.
Thoughts?

Yeah, this is a reasonable assessment. I think I'd take Danny over the other two, but a lot would take Bynum just because of his size.

No question in my mind that I take Paul and Williams in the top two...would not be disappointed with either.

NapTonius Monk
04-16-2008, 01:53 PM
I'd have to say 3rd after Paul and Williams. He's above Bogut and Marvin Williams. The only one to possibly bump Danny to 4th would be Bynum, if he continues to pan out. You think the Clippers and Hawks wouldn't love to have Danny? Marvin Williams is barely a solid player, and I don't even know if Korolev is still in the league. Which is also a reason that Larry Bird should get credit for drafting Danny. I know may people have said "It was a no brainer, because Danny fell into their laps." Well, Danny fell through 16 other laps before Larry closed his. Hindsight is 20/20.

d_c
04-16-2008, 01:58 PM
Obviously the top two in the draft looking back were CP3 and Deron, but after that I think its a toss up for the third spot between Danny, Monta Ellis, and maybe Bynum assuming he comes back healthy.
Thoughts?

1. Paul
2. Bynum
3. Deron Williams
4. Bogut
5. Granger
6. Monta
7. Marvin Williams

ajbry
04-16-2008, 02:08 PM
I think he's a very solid 4th behind Paul, Williams, and Bynum. Bogut and Monta are close though.

Rajah Brown
04-16-2008, 02:10 PM
I'm sure ATL would swap Willaims for DG. But I'm also sure they'd
much rather have taken Paul than DG. And with Smith at SF who's
not as good as DG right now (as a 21-yr old w/ no college experience,
while DG played 4 yrs of college ball, that's not surprising), but has a
much higher ceiling, I suspect they have no particular need or desire
for DG at this point either.

Young
04-16-2008, 03:08 PM
I think at the top you have to have Chris Paul.

But after him I think you have Deron Williams and Andrew Bogut are both there.

Then after that I think you have Granger and Monta Ellis along with Andrew Bynum.

Marvin Williams is up there too. I think that he will be much closer to the top in another year or two. I think that Bynum will turn out better than Bogut too within time.

A lot of teams look really stupid for passing on Danny though for sure. I still don't get why so many did. I really didn't think his injuries were that big of a concern. Thank you to all the GMs who passed on him.

Shade
04-16-2008, 03:12 PM
As of right now:

1) Chris Paul
2) Deron Williams
3) Andrew Bynum
4) Monta Ellis
5) Danny Granger
6) Andrew Bogut
7) Marvin Williams

Gamble1
04-16-2008, 03:38 PM
I don't know where Granger is place but I know where Fred Jones should have been drafted.

Stupid Isaiah.

maragin
04-16-2008, 03:42 PM
Just my humble opinion:

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Andrew Bynum
-----
4. Andrew Bogut
5. Monta Ellis
6. Danny Granger
7. Raymond Felton
8. David Lee
9. Ronny Turiaf
10. Charlie Villanueva
11. Marvin Williams
12. Jason Maxiell
13. Jarrett Jack
14. Luther Head
15. Hakim Warrick

DisplacedKnick
04-16-2008, 03:47 PM
I don't know where Granger is place but I know where Fred Jones should have been drafted.

Stupid Isaiah.

Ditto.

When he took Frye over Granger I immediately posted that he needed to be fired. I think that was the first time I decided once and for all that he needed to be canned. He got a reprieve hiring Larry Brown but that was over when he and Dolan decided that even thought they hired Larry Brown they didn't want Larry Brown - or at least not a Larry Brown who acted like Larry Brown.

esabyrn333
04-16-2008, 03:48 PM
All I remember about that draft after we picked Danny was praying that we would trade back into the 1st round to get Monta. Then I was shocked and thought he was going to fall to us in the second round 5 picks away. I think Monta's problem was he was a highschool star from Mississippi thats main weakness was being rail thin in desprate need to put on wieght ala Jonathan Bender. Being in Mississippi I read alot on the guy and thought he was going to be a steal. I was hoping we where going to get him until Danny fell to us.

Kstat
04-16-2008, 04:01 PM
I'd go:

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Andrew Bogut
4. Andrew Bynam
5. Danny Granger
6. Monta Ellis
7. Marvin Williams
8. Raymond Felton
9. David Lee
10. Jason Maxiell
11. Jarret Jack
12. Nate Robinson
13. Amir Johnson
14. Martell Webster
15. Charlie Villanueva
16. Andray Blatche
17. Luther Head
18. Ike Diogu
19. Ryan Gomes
20. Rashad McCants
21. Lenis Kleiza
22. Ronny Turiaf
23. Francisco Garcia
24. Brandon Bass
25. Hakim Warrick
26. Sean may
27. Francisco Garcia
28. Channing Frye
29. Joey Graham
30. Johan Petro

rexnom
04-16-2008, 04:01 PM
There is no way Andrew Bogut is better than Danny Granger. Danny is currently the 4th or 5th (depending on what you think of Monta Ellis) best player from that draft.

Also, I'd take Deron Williams over Andrew Bynum.

d_c
04-16-2008, 04:04 PM
There is no way Andrew Bogut is better than Danny Granger.

Granger is a better basketball player than Bogut, but by virtue of being a 23 year old starting center who's already pretty good and will continue to get better, Bogut probably has more value to most teams in the NBA.

Kstat
04-16-2008, 04:05 PM
Talent wise, no, but he's close, and a center will always trump a small forward when the talent is close.

Cactus Jax
04-16-2008, 04:09 PM
I'd go:

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Andrew Bogut
4. Andrew Bynam
5. Danny Granger
6. Monta Ellis
7. Marvin Williams
8. Raymond Felton
9. David Lee
10. Jason Maxiell
11. Jarret Jack
12. Nate Robinson
13. Amir Johnson
14. Martell Webster
15. Charlie Villanueva
16. Andray Blatche
17. Luther Head
18. Ike Diogu
19. Ryan Gomes
20. Rashad McCants
21. Lenis Kleiza
22. Ronny Turiaf
23. Francisco Garcia
24. Brandon Bass
25. Hakim Warrick
26. Sean may
27. Francisco Garcia
28. Channing Frye
29. Joey Graham
30. Johan Petro

Francisco Garcia is so good he gets drafted twice in the first round ;)

spreedom
04-16-2008, 04:15 PM
That's an okay list, but I definitely think McCants belongs in the top 15.... Kleiza probably does too. Why do people think so much of Villanueva?

AesopRockOn
04-16-2008, 04:18 PM
How can this guy be better than our own Danny Granger?
Zc11PUnFgkQ

idioteque
04-16-2008, 04:46 PM
I'd go:

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Andrew Bogut
4. Andrew Bynam
5. Danny Granger
6. Monta Ellis
7. Marvin Williams
8. Raymond Felton
9. David Lee
10. Jason Maxiell
11. Jarret Jack
12. Nate Robinson
13. Amir Johnson
14. Martell Webster
15. Charlie Villanueva
16. Andray Blatche
17. Luther Head
18. Ike Diogu
19. Ryan Gomes
20. Rashad McCants
21. Lenis Kleiza
22. Ronny Turiaf
23. Francisco Garcia
24. Brandon Bass
25. Hakim Warrick
26. Sean may
27. Francisco Garcia
28. Channing Frye
29. Joey Graham
30. Johan Petro

Good list.

The inevitable complaint: I'd take Gomes or Turiaf over Ike any day.

rexnom
04-16-2008, 04:55 PM
Good list.

The inevitable complaint: I'd take Gomes or Turiaf over Ike any day.
Yeah, I'd take the next four guys on that list over Ike.

maragin
04-16-2008, 05:11 PM
Kstat has a stronger stomach than I do. I originally wanted to make a list to 30, but I had to stop when I was about to select Nate Robinson. (not a fan)

skyfire
04-16-2008, 08:06 PM
I'd go:

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Andrew Bogut
4. Andrew Bynam
5. Danny Granger
6. Monta Ellis
...


Suprised you rate Bogut that highly Kstat. He has turned into a pretty solid double double center this season but his defence still leaves a fair bit to be desired.

I'd go

Paul
Bynum
Williams
Granger
Bogut
Ellis

BlueNGold
04-16-2008, 08:33 PM
I would go with this list. I think Granger has moved up and is now more valuable than Ellis. Bynum may pass up one or both PG's but he has to prove it. I don't think I would trade Danny to get Bogut...

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Andrew Bynum
4. Danny Granger
5. Monta Ellis
6. Andrew Bogut

Kofi
04-16-2008, 09:06 PM
There's not a GM in the league that would take Andrew Bogut over Andrew Bynum.

rexnom
04-16-2008, 09:44 PM
My rankings:
1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Andrew Bynum
4. Monta Ellis
5. Danny Granger

Kstat
04-16-2008, 09:48 PM
Suprised you rate Bogut that highly Kstat. He has turned into a pretty solid double double center this season but his defence still leaves a fair bit to be desired.


He's a proven post center. I'd take him over Bynam simply because you know you are going to get quality from him. Bynam is too much of a wild card.

Kofi
04-16-2008, 09:52 PM
Okafor's a proven post center. I'd take him over Howard simply because you know you are going to get quality from him. Howard is too much of a wild card.

:p

LG33
04-16-2008, 09:55 PM
I think Danny's good. Real good. But Monta is flat-out unstoppable.

BlueNGold
04-16-2008, 10:20 PM
He's a proven post center. I'd take him over Bynam simply because you know you are going to get quality from him. Bynam is too much of a wild card.

Yes, you know you have a decent 15ppg - 10 board starting center in Bogut. In fact, I think we could use him. But I doubt most GM's would give up the Beast for Bogut.

Bynum is a babe out of HS at only 20 years of age, scored 13.1ppg at nearly 64% from the floor with 10.2 boards a game (more than Bogut btw)...while only playing 28 minutes...under the big lights in LA in the western conference. He was clearly starting to turn the corner before his injury. Bogut 3 years older with college experience at Utah scored just over 14ppg at 50% from the floor with 9.7 boards...in over 34 minutes...on a cellar dweller. I guess in a year or two, it will become more clear how good Bynum will become.

Kstat
04-16-2008, 10:50 PM
Okafor's a proven post center. I'd take him over Howard simply because you know you are going to get quality from him. Howard is too much of a wild card.



Except Howard is proven, so your post makes no sense whatsoever.

Kofi
04-16-2008, 11:23 PM
Except Howard is proven, so your post makes no sense whatsoever.

Except that it does.

You're reasoning for taking Bogut is the exact same reasoning people were using for Okafor going #1 back in 2004, ahead of Dwight Howard.

I'm also a little perplexed as to what Bogut has done/shown that makes him more proven than Bynum?

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5921/54052827km4.gif

They're both good centers. The difference is, Bynum has shown glimpses - nay stretches - of being utterly dominant. Check the FG%, and the bpg and rpg in under 29 minutes. And we're talking a guy who's just 20 years old. He's not even old enough to drink, and he's already dominating some of the NBA's finest.

Bynum vs Bogut......

Size: Bynum
Age: Bynum
Athleticism: Bynum
Scoring: Bynum
Shot Blocking: Bynum
Rebounding: Bynum
Passing: Bogut (barely)
Health: Bogut

Unless you're irrationally concerned over Bynum's knee, there's no logical reason to take Bogut over Bynum.

Just admit you hate the Lakers, and that hatred is your sole reason for listing Bogut ahead of Bynum, and we can end this discussion.

Dece
04-17-2008, 01:23 AM
Unless you're irrationally concerned over Bynum's knee, there's no logical reason to take Bogut over Bynum.



I don't think there is anything irrational about being concerned about a serious knee injury, particularly on a big man. The list of young players who had their careers greatly diminished or ended by knee injuries is LOOOOONG.

Will Galen
04-17-2008, 02:33 AM
I don't think there is anything irrational about being concerned about a serious knee injury, particularly on a big man. The list of young players who had their careers greatly diminished or ended by knee injuries is LOOOOONG.

Yes, several promising Pacers. Clark Kellogg, Steve Stipanovich, Jonathan Bender.

skyfire
04-17-2008, 03:34 AM
I'm probably one of Bogut's biggest fans on this board, but unless Bynum's injury is much worse than reported, I think the Bucks would trade Bogut for Bynum every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Shade
04-17-2008, 11:33 AM
Yes, several promising Pacers. Clark Kellogg, Steve Stipanovich, Jonathan Bender.

*coughjermaineonealcough*

OakMoses
04-17-2008, 12:59 PM
Okafor's a proven post center. I'd take him over Howard simply because you know you are going to get quality from him. Howard is too much of a wild card.

:p

Can I play this game too?

How about this one: I just love me some huge upside. I think I'll trade Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler.

OakMoses
04-17-2008, 01:03 PM
I really think that people are overvaluing Bynum. He has tremendous potential, I'm not going to deny that. He hasn't done anything in the NBA yet. Not to mention the fact that he's recovering from a fairly serious knee injury.

Here's my list:

Paul
D. Williams
Granger
Ellis
Bynum
Bogut
M. Williams

Kofi
04-17-2008, 01:12 PM
He hasn't done anything in the NBA yet.

And Bogut has done.....?

For that matter, what have Ellis or Granger actually done?

As for Bynum - he averaged a double-double with 2+ bpg and 60%+ shooting in less than 29 mpg as a 20 year old. That's essentially what the media expected out of Greg Oden - maybe even more.

Since86
04-17-2008, 02:03 PM
And Bogut has done.....?

For that matter, what have Ellis or Granger actually done?

As for Bynum - he averaged a double-double with 2+ bpg and 60%+ shooting in less than 29 mpg as a 20 year old. That's essentially what the media expected out of Greg Oden - maybe even more.

In how many games? That's right, 35.

Everyone and their brother know young players start to drop off at the middle of the season, when they hit their wall. The NBA season is extremely long, longer and more demanding than they've ever experienced.

Saying that Bynum averaged a double double because he played in less than half of the season isn't carrying much weight.

But yes, he did average 13 and 10 for 35 games.

JayRedd
04-18-2008, 04:20 PM
And Bogut has done.....?

Bogut was 16.3 ppg and 11.6 rpg after the break.

I by no means believe his career will be as close to as good as Bynum, but he has probably done the most of anyone after CP3 and Deron (and probably Monta as well) from that draft class.

In fact, Bogut wasn't just solid in the second half...he was damn impressive from January 1st on. Big Aussies had 27 double-doubles in his final 48 games this year, including 10 games with 15 or more boards.

Production-wise, that's at least as impressive as anything Danny and Bynum has done, even if he might not have the "UPside" of those two dudes athletically.

Bogut is going to have a very good career.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3927/splits;_ylt=AkDhEF2lcv6U2HMHqdN.SXCkvLYF

Eindar
04-19-2008, 01:43 AM
*coughjermaineonealcough*

I'm glad someone fixed that.

Eindar
04-19-2008, 01:46 AM
About Bynum vs. Bogut:

If I'm picking teams for a game tonight, and the losing team and their owner gets executed, I'm taking Bogut. But in every other situation, I'm taking Bynum.

So, if the question is: Who is the better player right this very second? Bogut by a hair.

If we're re-doing the 2005 Draft? Bynum in a landslide.

Kstat
04-19-2008, 02:03 AM
Just admit you hate the Lakers, and that hatred is your sole reason for listing Bogut ahead of Bynum, and we can end this discussion.

Yeah, I hate the Lakers, which is why I said Kobe should win MVP.

My picking of Bogut over Bynam has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the fact Bynam (A) has no durability and (B) can sustain his A game for a good 5-8 minutes before gasping for air. Nope, I just hate the Lakers.

Try another random accusation. You might actually hit your mark on one of them.

You can have your upside. I'll take the guy I know is going to be a double-double machine, and doesn't need a rest every 5 minutes.

When Dwight Howard has problems breathing after 3 trips down the floor, then you're more than free to compare him to Bynam.

Robertmto
04-19-2008, 01:21 PM
Can I play this game too?

How about this one: I just love me some huge upside. I think I'll trade Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler.

CP3 has Tyson lookin nice, and Brand well he's hurt alot.

maragin
04-20-2008, 07:44 PM
Just to note, I hadn't really watched Linas Kleiza this year. He looked fantastic off the bench against the Lakers. Hustle, boards, scored inside and outside, and he kept Denver alive (sorta) when everybody else looked like crap. If I re-ranked, he'd crack the top ten of the 2005 draft class for me.

It is also entirely possible that I just saw an amazing/ out of the ordinary game from him though.

BKK
04-21-2008, 05:36 AM
I don't know where Granger is place but I know where Fred Jones should have been drafted.

Stupid Isaiah.


:laugh: