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View Full Version : The only good thing about the Pacers missing the playoffs is....



NuffSaid
04-15-2008, 01:57 PM
....Golden State didn't get it either. Okay, so I'm being petty, but considering all the hype about the Warriors getting the better end of the deal in the trade to see them sitting out, too, confirms two things for me:

1) the West is a tough(er) conference by far. Any time you win 48 games and you still miss the post-season, that's got to be tough on any team. Still, GS' success last season was a fluke.

2) SJax and Big Al were no more "the answer" for their new team's woes than Dunleavy, Ike and Murphy were for the Pacers. But both sets of players could be part of the solution...in whole or in parts (i.e., for GS...keep SJax, trade Big Al; for the Pacers...keep Dunleavy and maybe experiment one more season w/Ike, but find a way to profit from Murphy's new-found trade value because he did perform very well this year).

AesopRockOn
04-15-2008, 02:07 PM
Um, I think people around the league still view Murphy the same as when we got him. As a whole, the Warriors had at least twice as succesful a season as the Pacers did.

The only good thing about missing the postseason is not having to get licked by the Celtics. But I'd still rather watch that if it meant my awful team had made the playoffs albeit in a weaker conference.

ajbry
04-15-2008, 02:09 PM
This thread is a terrible idea built on a laughable premise (East vs. West).

idioteque
04-15-2008, 02:12 PM
The only fluke of the matter is that the Warriors didn't get into the playoffs this year and they are still almost a 50 win team. The West is just incredibly strong, a team anchored by AI and Carmelo with some decent role players just barely got in at the 8 spot.

If you want to get an idea of who got the better end of the deal, look at the cumulative win-loss records of the Pacers and the Warriors after the trade. Look at the level in which fans have supported both teams after the trade.

The trade clearly benefited the Warriors, while it didn't hurt the Pacers that much, as they have basically stayed around the same level they were before it. The real difference though is that the Warriors had other pieces in place to take full advantage of the trade while the Pacers did not. Dun and Murphy never fit into Nelly's style. Jackson got to play with a Davis/Ellis back court while Dunleavy got to play out of position in the backcourt with Travis Deiner.

Kegboy
04-15-2008, 02:24 PM
I know it's petty and completely pointless, but I feel the same way. Grace likes GS; I can't stand them because it's a kick to the gut to see them playing so well, even if it was the right move to get rid of them.

d_c
04-15-2008, 02:45 PM
If you want to get an idea of who got the better end of the deal, look at the cumulative win-loss records of the Pacers and the Warriors after the trade. Look at the level in which fans have supported both teams after the trade.
.

And I'll repeat again, the Warriors did the trade for two reasons. One was short term. It helped end a 12 year playoffless streak. If we had not made it last season, it would have been 13 and with this year it would have been 14. One more year of missing out and we would have tied or broken the Clips' record of consecutive years missing the playoffs. That's NOT a record you want any part of.

Nellie was simply unhappy with Dunleavy and Murphy and wanted some guys who would fit his system better.

Let's make clear: Jackson and Harrington certainly are NOT long term solutions to the Warriors, but they helped them win immediately and replaced guys who had been given several years of patinece and several chances to get the job done but never did.

And they had shorter/smaller contracts. It's going to help this summer, as they'll have ~ $5M less in payroll. That's $5M further away from the luxury tax. The Warriors would have never agreed to the deal had it not saved them some money.

And oh yeah, they just won more games than any Warrior team since 1993-94.

For the Warriors, that's a trade that absolutely had to be made (every bit as much as the Pacers needed it). You absolutely can't argue with the results from the Warriors' point of view. I don't understand the how anyone could rationally say that trade didn't result in a net positive for the Warriors. How could you possibly argue that the Warriors would have been better off NOT making that deal?

naptownmenace
04-15-2008, 02:50 PM
I'm not going to lie, I'm disappointed that neither team is going to the playoffs.

Other than the Pacers, the Warriors are the team I have watched the most this season. I've always been a huge Baron Davis fan and Monte Ellis is one of my new favorites. It's crazy that a team with 48 wins isn't going to make the playoffs. I'm happy with the trade actually and consider it a push this season.

Jonathan
04-15-2008, 03:49 PM
Golden State got off to an 0-6 Start. Step Jackson missed those games due to him pleading guilty in the Club Rio incident. The trade is over with, both teams improved from the deal. Dunleavy and Jackson got fresh starts.

NuffSaid
04-15-2008, 04:10 PM
I'll be honest and admit biasness on my part. I didn't like that the trade because it did seem as though it benefitted the Warriors far more than the Pacers, but like naptownmenance said, "it's a push" for both teams this year at least.

Now, I agree with d_c; it's a trade that for the sake of both teams needed to be done. But what kills me is seeing how SJax seemed to have flurished under Nellie while Dunleavy, who I've admired as a player from afar, finally got his act together this year and yet his consistent efforts were wasted.

One positive sprung from all the troubles this team has had this year: thought not designated as a leader, Dunleavy clearly shared a leadership role w/Granger. It's very evident he wanted to be part of post-season action this year perhaps more than anyone (w/Diener riding a close second based solely on their commentary as the Pacers' post-season hopes drew to a close). He wanted it bad! I only hope Bird makes some definitive moves to get this team back on track and soon.

Sollozzo
04-15-2008, 04:48 PM
They still won 48 games though (with an 0-6 start). That's pretty damn good, and would make the playoffs like 99% of the time.

OnlyPacersLeft
04-15-2008, 04:54 PM
they did get the better half of the trade....with those players we make the playoffs this year...

Ownagedood
04-15-2008, 04:55 PM
Think about where we would be if we hadn't done this trade.. I didnt like it when it happened, but accepted it because we got "good guys" in the trade for "bad guys".. But put everything together and pretend they were playing for us again instead of us having Diogu/Dun/Murphy/Mcleod we had Jack/Al/Runi/Powell.. I WOULD SO RATHER HAVE OUR GUYS BACK. Put Jack alongside Granger on offense.. My goodness we are dangerous.. Then we also have Al with an inside-outside game, whom didn't play well with his short time with us, but wasn't given much of a chance either.

I would do a lot of things to get that trade back.. Even though it could have meant more bad PR.. For some reason I really do miss Jack.. I hated what he did off the court but he was really believe it or not, the heart of our team.. With Runi we wouldn't have a horrible PG situation. And Powell was a nice sub for JO, basically the same as Diogu, imo.

I know we can't change time back.. But man, I wish we hadn't of done that trade.. I can see many of you disagreeing with me because of the problems Jack had.. But, I really wish we had not done it.

CableKC
04-15-2008, 04:56 PM
1) the West is a tough(er) conference by far. Any time you win 48 games and you still miss the post-season, that's got to be tough on any team. Still, GS' success last season was a fluke.
How can you say that the Warriors success last season was a fluke?

They won 42 games last season and outdid themselves this year by winning 47 wins.

The fact that they didn't make the Playoffs doesn't mean that last season's run was some anamoly.....in any other season....they would have gotten in....it's just that for whatever reason, for this particular season the Western Conference it got much tougher.

Shade
04-15-2008, 05:00 PM
I won't lie, I enjoy seeing Jack fail. Al too, to a lesser degree.

But last season was most certainly not a fluke. I think, perhaps, that Richardson helped their cause more than they realized.

Shade
04-15-2008, 05:02 PM
Put Jack alongside Granger on offense.. My goodness we are dangerous..

Dun is better on offense than Jack.

Troy's offense is equal to Al's.

The rest of the players, at this point anyway, are irrelevant.

Ownagedood
04-15-2008, 05:05 PM
Dun is better on offense than Jack.

Troy's offense is equal to Al's.

The rest of the players, at this point anyway, are irrelevant.
Not really.. Or at least Jack averages better numbers.. In just about everything.. And he is also a much better defender.

But since they are gone, I also root against them.

And actually.. The other players, the "throw ins", make a BIG difference.. Powell was very solid when he was here, big time post scorer. Runi was a true PG, he was just struggling to figure out how to play against NBA players at times.

EDIT: The best players, in order of my opinion:
Jack>Dunleavey>Harrington>Murphy>Diogu>Powell>Runi>Mcleod

NorCal_Pacerfan
04-15-2008, 05:21 PM
Best thing is not watching the Pacers get swept by Boston.

As for GS, well, they had a healthier season than we did. Really, we have JO, Dun and Granger as our best players. Golden State is deeper than we are. They have BD and Monta who is amazing, along with Jax, Al, and a host of other very talented bench players. Brandon Wright is amazing, keep your eye on him. Abazuki (not sure on his spelling) is another amazing young player. GS is ahead of us in overall depth and talent. They play in a much harder division so their winning record is worth even more. It's a shame they didn't get into the P-offs.

NapTonius Monk
04-15-2008, 05:25 PM
....Golden State didn't get it either. Okay, so I'm being petty, but considering all the hype about the Warriors getting the better end of the deal in the trade to see them sitting out, too, confirms two things for me:

1) the West is a tough(er) conference by far. Any time you win 48 games and you still miss the post-season, that's got to be tough on any team. Still, GS' success last season was a fluke.

I don't see how you can deem a 48 win season, playing night in and night out in the best conference, as a fluke. The West is just ridiculously stacked. I would argue that they in fact validated it. Golden State sitting out, while teams like Philly and Atlanta get in is just crazy. I'm all on board for taking the top records for the playoffs, regardless of conference. If you're going to be declared the World Champs, reason stands that the teams playing for that title ought to be the top teams in the league, and not just those who backed in by playing through a watered down East.

Sidenote: You could argue that as valuable as SJax has been to the Warriors, the 6 games they dropped while he was suspended proved to be huge down the stretch. If they win just a couple of those, they're probably in, and Denver is on vacation.

grace
04-15-2008, 05:27 PM
I know it's petty and completely pointless, but I feel the same way. Grace likes GS; I can't stand them because it's a kick to the gut to see them playing so well, even if it was the right move to get rid of them.

You do realize there is more to the team than Stephen and Al.

d_c
04-15-2008, 05:28 PM
As for GS, well, they had a healthier season than we did. Really, we have JO, Dun and Granger as our best players. Golden State is deeper than we are. They have BD and Monta who is amazing, along with Jax, Al, and a host of other very talented bench players. Brandon Wright is amazing, keep your eye on him. Abazuki (not sure on his spelling) is another amazing young player. GS is ahead of us in overall depth and talent. They play in a much harder division so their winning record is worth even more. It's a shame they didn't get into the P-offs.

The Warriors weren't very deep this year. That's the reason that Nellie felt he had to play both Baron and Jackson 39 minutes a game. That's what finally ran them into the ground. They ran out of gas.

They didn't have a backup PG. They used Monta as the backup PG, with a DLeague player (CJ Watson) backing up Monta. Azubuike (who is another DLeaguer) got off to a nice start early in the year. He also had a nice finish. The problem was that he had knee problems for most of the season and just didn't play that well.

Pietrus and Barnes both had pretty disappointing seasons. Barnes' mother did pass away early in the season and that did affect him, but he had a poor year nonetheless. They signed Troy Hudson and Croshere to minimum deals. Hudson was a physical wreck and barely played before getting cut. Croshere was in and out with a bad back. The Warriors bench was supposed to be a strength this year, but ended up being a liability.

We're pretty excited about Brandan Wright. He's exactly what we've needed. He's just not quite physically mature yet, but he's arguably the most talented guy on the roster.

Oneal07
04-15-2008, 05:38 PM
The East needs to step it's game up. . .all these weak teams over here!!

d_c
04-15-2008, 05:43 PM
The East needs to step it's game up. . .all these weak teams over here!!

Chris Paul, Brandon Roy and Lamarcus Aldridge should all be playing in the east but are in the west. Carlos Boozer should be helping Lebron win a championship right now, but he's in Utah.

Those are a few reasons for the situation being what it is.

Shade
04-15-2008, 06:22 PM
Not really.. Or at least Jack averages better numbers.. In just about everything.. And he is also a much better defender.

No, Dun's shooting percentages this season are much higher than Jack's. And Jack's defense is only relevant when he actually uses it.


And actually.. The other players, the "throw ins", make a BIG difference.. Powell was very solid when he was here, big time post scorer. Runi was a true PG, he was just struggling to figure out how to play against NBA players at times.

There's a reason neither Runi nor Powell lasted long after the trade.

NorCal_Pacerfan
04-15-2008, 06:48 PM
The Warriors weren't very deep this year. That's the reason that Nellie felt he had to play both Baron and Jackson 39 minutes a game. That's what finally ran them into the ground. They ran out of gas.

They didn't have a backup PG. They used Monta as the backup PG, with a DLeague player (CJ Watson) backing up Monta. Azubuike (who is another DLeaguer) got off to a nice start early in the year. He also had a nice finish. The problem was that he had knee problems for most of the season and just didn't play that well.

Pietrus and Barnes both had pretty disappointing seasons. Barnes' mother did pass away early in the season and that did affect him, but he had a poor year nonetheless. They signed Troy Hudson and Croshere to minimum deals. Hudson was a physical wreck and barely played before getting cut. Croshere was in and out with a bad back. The Warriors bench was supposed to be a strength this year, but ended up being a liability.

We're pretty excited about Brandan Wright. He's exactly what we've needed. He's just not quite physically mature yet, but he's arguably the most talented guy on the roster.

And despite all of that you almost made the P-offs - a few point swings here or there. I'd say that's pretty damn good in a western conference arguably stronger than any in history. A close to 50 win season is nothing to sneeze at. Yeah, Nellie rode Jax and Baron too hard but you still have some really good promising young talent. Was nice to see 'Air France' get back in uniform too. I wonder how much the warriors missed J Rich this year. Maybe not that much but he seemed to be part of the magic chemistry last year.

Kegboy
04-15-2008, 06:53 PM
You do realize there is more to the team than Stephen and Al.

Yeah, probably, but all I see are Jack and Al.

Naptown_Seth
04-15-2008, 07:22 PM
Um, Golden State made the playoffs last year after being out of them at the time of the trade, Indiana missed the playoffs after being squarely in them at the time of the trade.

Then this year you have a 48 win season and you're still drafting just a few spots away from the Pacers. In fact had Indy made the postseason, as much as I was for that, they would have had to pick after GS and take that Boston beating.


Sorry, but it takes some really twisted logic to not see how badly Indiana is getting crushed on this deal according to the W-L tally.

Save the "but look at their team". They had that team prior to the trade when they were floundering their way toward .500.

And more salt on the wound, as mentioned the primary reason they missed the playoffs was the slow start without Jackson thanks to the suspension. That was the final bit of crap remaining for him, so what you have is a Warriors team with a monster improvement in W-L after getting him and a Pacers team with dramatic drop after the trade.

JO and Tins injuries? They had them before Jack was dealt, including the season before. Baron injury last year? More games missed AFTER the trade than before.


Look, W-L is the bottom line evaluation on this or any deals. It's now 1.5 seasons into it and we are still getting our butts kicked based on results. It sucks and GS missing out doesn't make it better for me because THE PACERS are my team, not the Warriors.

I'd love to stop ranting on this issue, all it's going to take is for Dun and Troy to have a better record than Jack and Al.

Does anyone really think that if you swapped Dun and Troy back onto the Warriors that they'd win more games?

They are likeable, they can score the ball (esp Dun) but they don't play defense well and it's killing this team, and it strongly appears they weren't doing GS any favors either.

Naptown_Seth
04-15-2008, 07:44 PM
No, Dun's shooting percentages this season are much higher than Jack's.
THIS year Dun finally crushed him from 3. Last year he was worse than Jackson. Mike also crushed him on 2P% both years.

They are identical from FT%. Dun has the rebounding edge but it's only 5.1 to 4.4

And "selfish" Jackson continues to have more assists. He had more with Indy last year than Dun did, and more with GS than Dun did (so apples to apples situations). Think about this, about how people see Dunleavy as this great offensive facilitator and Jackson as a ball hogging, shot chucking a'hole...who magically ends up dishing out more scores for other players than Dun does.

Tell me it's 1 am all you want but the sun says it's high noon. In other words two guys playing a similar TEAM game, one playing more defense in fact, and fans clearly see one as selfish and the other as Mr. Helpful.


Plus having a guy shoot no better last year but much better this year, but with no other gains and the cost of defensive ability ONLY cost $1.3m this year. He'll only cost about $2m more each of the next 2 seasons.

Oh, and there's that extra year you are on the hook for only $10.5m.

If Dun is earning his 8-9m isn't Jackson earning his 6.5-7.5m? And isn't his deal more tradeable?

This doesn't even get into the Troy vs Al contract/stats. I'm just so sick of the justifying and the explaining away just to feel better about hating Jackson so much. The deal sucked.

Jack blew his temper and made dumb mistakes and let emotions run his game too often. He still does. That still doesn't make this some win on a trade.

You know what would have been a win? Jackson for Gerald Wallace, a guy that can defend the SG for you and costs you Dun money. You know, something they badly need (and needed).

Ownagedood
04-15-2008, 10:09 PM
THIS year Dun finally crushed him from 3. Last year he was worse than Jackson. Mike also crushed him on 2P% both years.

They are identical from FT%. Dun has the rebounding edge but it's only 5.1 to 4.4

And "selfish" Jackson continues to have more assists. He had more with Indy last year than Dun did, and more with GS than Dun did (so apples to apples situations). Think about this, about how people see Dunleavy as this great offensive facilitator and Jackson as a ball hogging, shot chucking a'hole...who magically ends up dishing out more scores for other players than Dun does.

Tell me it's 1 am all you want but the sun says it's high noon. In other words two guys playing a similar TEAM game, one playing more defense in fact, and fans clearly see one as selfish and the other as Mr. Helpful.


Plus having a guy shoot no better last year but much better this year, but with no other gains and the cost of defensive ability ONLY cost $1.3m this year. He'll only cost about $2m more each of the next 2 seasons.

Oh, and there's that extra year you are on the hook for only $10.5m.

If Dun is earning his 8-9m isn't Jackson earning his 6.5-7.5m? And isn't his deal more tradeable?

This doesn't even get into the Troy vs Al contract/stats. I'm just so sick of the justifying and the explaining away just to feel better about hating Jackson so much. The deal sucked.

Jack blew his temper and made dumb mistakes and let emotions run his game too often. He still does. That still doesn't make this some win on a trade.

You know what would have been a win? Jackson for Gerald Wallace, a guy that can defend the SG for you and costs you Dun money. You know, something they badly need (and needed).
Lol, thx for clarifying all my points I was attempting to bring out..

Shack80
04-15-2008, 11:03 PM
The only thing goo about missing the playoffs is maybe they will fire bird now that Walsh is gone. Now the rebuilding can begin.

grace
04-16-2008, 12:27 AM
Yeah, probably, but all I see are Jack and Al.


http://www.nba.com/media/act_austin_croshere.jpg I'm crushed.

Midcoasted
04-16-2008, 01:36 AM
THIS year Dun finally crushed him from 3. Last year he was worse than Jackson. Mike also crushed him on 2P% both years.

They are identical from FT%. Dun has the rebounding edge but it's only 5.1 to 4.4

And "selfish" Jackson continues to have more assists. He had more with Indy last year than Dun did, and more with GS than Dun did (so apples to apples situations). Think about this, about how people see Dunleavy as this great offensive facilitator and Jackson as a ball hogging, shot chucking a'hole...who magically ends up dishing out more scores for other players than Dun does.

Tell me it's 1 am all you want but the sun says it's high noon. In other words two guys playing a similar TEAM game, one playing more defense in fact, and fans clearly see one as selfish and the other as Mr. Helpful.


Plus having a guy shoot no better last year but much better this year, but with no other gains and the cost of defensive ability ONLY cost $1.3m this year. He'll only cost about $2m more each of the next 2 seasons.

Oh, and there's that extra year you are on the hook for only $10.5m.

If Dun is earning his 8-9m isn't Jackson earning his 6.5-7.5m? And isn't his deal more tradeable?

This doesn't even get into the Troy vs Al contract/stats. I'm just so sick of the justifying and the explaining away just to feel better about hating Jackson so much. The deal sucked.

Jack blew his temper and made dumb mistakes and let emotions run his game too often. He still does. That still doesn't make this some win on a trade.

You know what would have been a win? Jackson for Gerald Wallace, a guy that can defend the SG for you and costs you Dun money. You know, something they badly need (and needed).


Did u ever really watch Jackson play? Not actually at the game, but on TV? Its alot easier to know what a player is doing on TV. Ive been to a few games here and there but I watch most on TV. And I tell you, I was glad when Jackson was gone. He was way too streaky. He'd go into slumps all the time then have 1 great game and it made him look like hes having a decent year.

I also listen to radio broadcasts in my car when Im on the road delivering.

Dunleavy is way better than Jax anyday, except on defense.

The only part of this trade I want back is Murphy for Harrington. Al gave us that post presence we are so badly needing. Dunleavy this year had a year that was twice as good as any year SJ the turnover machine had for us.

And to suggest that his passing is getting better, well I dont know, because I don't watch or care. All I know when he was here he was almost the worse passer out of double team and pressure I ever seen at SG in the NBA and Im not being harsh, he really sucked it up.

Dunleavy is an improvement in every aspect of the game other than manning another SG up. Attitude and persoanlity and likeability and desire to win for us, are also 100 to 1 for Dunleavy.

To suggest we got the short end of the stick with this move is crazy. We did on the Al Murphy deal, but If JO and Tinsley were healthy, and Tinsley actually played up to his talent level, we could be a 48 win team. Our 2 best players are the biggest thing holding us down. And I remember the trade, we were barely sniffing for the playoffs that year. We barely ever got back to back wins, I was so glad that SJax was gone and so sad to See Al go.

Dunleavy>SJAX.

And Not only did we give up Al for Murphy we gave up our number 1 pick, which I wish we had instead of murphy as well. So maybe we should have never traded for Al in the first place, and done the SJAx Dunleavy deal, and we could be a 48 win team with Al or the draft pick we lost. Murphy is the weak link. But Ike could be the star that hasn't got to shine yet that could heavily tilt the deal in our favor. If any coach we ever have actually gives Ike a chance he is a double double guy, and along with Murphy, I would take over Al anyday. But this is all "what if" Ike actually got PT.

Midcoasted
04-16-2008, 01:48 AM
And why arent any of you taking into account Baron Davis wasn't always a GS Warrior? He was relatively new to GS when the trade went down. He was going to carry them on his back anyways he just had to adjust to the system first and stay healthy for most or all of a year. Dunleavy sure made a progression step this year IMO. He threw up like 7? 30 point games. in the final push and a few of those were over 35. Some teams can shut him down because we lack the personel around him at PG and at C. Danny Granger for MVP 2009 is all I can say! Hey I can dream can't I? But I think the dream is starting to become possibility, which then could become reality. Danny could be a nightmare to defend. I could definitely see him having a 25 ppg year within the next 2 years.

04-05 GSW 28 19 35.3 0.401 0.341 0.755 0.6 3.3 3.9 8.3 1.8 0.4 3.32 2.60 19.5
05-06 GSW 54 48 36.5 0.389 0.315 0.675 0.8 3.5 4.4 8.9 1.6 0.3 2.94 3.10 17.9
06-07 GSW 63 62 35.3 0.439 0.304 0.745 0.8 3.6 4.4 8.1 2.1 0.5 3.06 2.90 20.1
07-08 GSW 81 81 39.0 0.427 0.327 0.750 1.2 3.5 4.7 7.6 2.3 0.5 2.81 3.00 21.9
Career -- 607 500 35.5 0.414 0.325 0.692 1.0 3.0 4.1 7.2 2.0 0.4 2.76 2.90 17.1


Davis 4 years with GS. See he didnt play for them enough to make a difference until the last 2 years. And it just hapopens to be the year he played the most they won the most games. I think GS still would have won 45 games or more if the trade didnt go down. Davis is just that good, and the Warriors do have talent other than Al and Jax, face it.

And if you notice his PPG increased as well as alot of his stats. Trade Tinsley for Baron Davis and we are a 48 win 4th seed IMHO. GS would be the 35 win team.

And if U dont think having Baron Davis would have won us AT LEAST 13 more games, then you are CRAZY! LOL j/k. It's just my opinion, i'm sure everyone has theirs.

7.6 assists per game to 2.81 TOS. That would definitely help us. It all comes down to Tinsley why the deal is better for them than it is for us. We don't have Baron Davis, and we don't even have Tinsley, we have two backups. Quality backups yes, that why we will probably loose Flip to a better team. You can't ever talk about playoffs seriously without a starting point that can gaurd the ball get assists 2:1 or more over turnovers.

Midcoasted
04-16-2008, 02:17 AM
Looking at the numbers Im being way to harsh on Jackson, but numbers just can't tell the whole story with this guy and the way he played in the Playoffs. He was just too greedy with the ball. I remember against NJ he was tryin to take Vince to the rack everytime he tocuhed the ball because Vince was making highlight reels and posters all over the place. Jax did play good that series but he also lost us that series. He was good but I still think Mike is better. And Dunleavy turns the ball over just as frequently it seems. He just seems to be the better passer espescially when the game is on the line and it actually matters. The Last two games Dunleavy had 13 assists and 4 TOs to go with 48 points. Danny just exploded like he was due to. We have alot of promise next year if we can keep them both around and actually build a worthy team around them.

Daniels and not having a true PG lost us those 2 games and the POs IMO.

d_c
04-16-2008, 02:38 AM
We had Baron, JRich, Dunleavy and Murphy all together in 2005-2006.

Baron was about as healthy that season as he was in 2006-2007 (in fact he had knee surgery that year). JRich was in fact healthier that year than in 2006-2007 and had a fantastic year.

The result of the 2005-2006 season with JRich having one of his best seasons, Baron being as healthy as he would be a year later along with Dunleavy and Murphy was an absolute and utter disaster. One of the most disappointing seasons in recent Warrior memory.

Basically I'll lay it out for you:

2005-2006 Warriors (Baron, JRich, Murphleavy core) = 2007-2008 Chicago Bulls

I will tell you straight up that was one of the most disgusting, disappointing seasons I've ever had as a Warrior fan. Everyone wanted to puke after that. It was a complete waste of everyone's time.

d_c
04-16-2008, 02:41 AM
But Ike could be the star that hasn't got to shine yet that could heavily tilt the deal in our favor. If any coach we ever have actually gives Ike a chance he is a double double guy, and along with Murphy, I would take over Al anyday. But this is all "what if" Ike actually got PT.

Sure, if you say so, but keep something in mind.

Ike has had 4 coaches of varying degrees of style. In each case, he has gotten less playing time with each successive coach.

I like Ike, but when 4 different coaches with varying degrees of style can't find a way to get him on the floor (even when the team is shorthanded in the frontcourt), it sort of raises a red flag about why he's not playing.

Midcoasted
04-16-2008, 03:12 AM
We had Baron, JRich, Dunleavy and Murphy all together in 2005-2006.

Baron was about as healthy that season as he was in 2006-2007 (in fact he had knee surgery that year). JRich was in fact healthier that year than in 2006-2007 and had a fantastic year.

The result of the 2005-2006 season with JRich having one of his best seasons, Baron being as healthy as he would be a year later along with Dunleavy and Murphy was an absolute and utter disaster. One of the most disappointing seasons in recent Warrior memory.

Basically I'll lay it out for you:

2005-2006 Warriors (Baron, JRich, Murphleavy core) = 2007-2008 Chicago Bulls

I will tell you straight up that was one of the most disgusting, disappointing seasons I've ever had as a Warrior fan. Everyone wanted to puke after that. It was a complete waste of everyone's time.


Sometimes players need a change of scenery. I think in the end it will work out best for both teams.

I still don't see how you could say Baron Davis playing20-30 more games in a year and having better statistics didnt help alot though. Also the fact u got Al for what has been the equivalent to nothing is why the deal favors u so much. Without Al the deal wouldnt have been so sweet. U got over on us, but hey thanx for Chris Mullin back in the day. LOL.

Ive been considering moving to SanFran so I guess Id see alot of GS games, LOL. Maybe Ill have to get reaquainted with old Al and Jacko. Is it possible for me to still pick up the Pacers games out there?

d_c
04-16-2008, 03:42 AM
Sometimes players need a change of scenery. I think in the end it will work out best for both teams.

I still don't see how you could say Baron Davis playing20-30 more games in a year and having better statistics didnt help alot though. Also the fact u got Al for what has been the equivalent to nothing is why the deal favors u so much. Without Al the deal wouldnt have been so sweet. U got over on us, but hey thanx for Chris Mullin back in the day. LOL.

Ive been considering moving to SanFran so I guess Id see alot of GS games, LOL. Maybe Ill have to get reaquainted with old Al and Jacko. Is it possible for me to still pick up the Pacers games out there?

Al Harrington isn't that great. I'll take Harrington and his contract over Murphy and his, but he's nothing great and I'll never understand why the Warriors and Pacers (among other teams) made him such a sought after target that summer in 2006.

Baron played hurt in 2005-06 and he played hurt in 2006-2007. In fact, in 2006-2007, he had surgery on his knee right after the all-star break. He shut it down early in 2005-06 because the team was playing like garbage, was well out of the playoff race and there was no point in continuing to play hurt. He probably would have shut it down in 2006-07 but it just so happened that they were close enough in the standings to make a playoff run, and they did.

Add in the fact that in 2006-07, JRich had his worst year as a professional basketball player. He missed 31 games, shot a career low FG% and was gimpy/rusty even in the games he came back.

You can get Pacer games anywhere you live, of course. Just get League Pass.

Alpolloloco
04-16-2008, 04:38 AM
Did u ever really watch Jackson play? Not actually at the game, but on TV? Its alot easier to know what a player is doing on TV. Ive been to a few games here and there but I watch most on TV. And I tell you, I was glad when Jackson was gone. He was way too streaky. He'd go into slumps all the time then have 1 great game and it made him look like hes having a decent year.

I also listen to radio broadcasts in my car when Im on the road delivering.

Dunleavy is way better than Jax anyday, except on defense.

The only part of this trade I want back is Murphy for Harrington. Al gave us that post presence we are so badly needing. Dunleavy this year had a year that was twice as good as any year SJ the turnover machine had for us.

And to suggest that his passing is getting better, well I dont know, because I don't watch or care. All I know when he was here he was almost the worse passer out of double team and pressure I ever seen at SG in the NBA and Im not being harsh, he really sucked it up.

Dunleavy is an improvement in every aspect of the game other than manning another SG up. Attitude and persoanlity and likeability and desire to win for us, are also 100 to 1 for Dunleavy.

To suggest we got the short end of the stick with this move is crazy. We did on the Al Murphy deal, but If JO and Tinsley were healthy, and Tinsley actually played up to his talent level, we could be a 48 win team. Our 2 best players are the biggest thing holding us down. And I remember the trade, we were barely sniffing for the playoffs that year. We barely ever got back to back wins, I was so glad that SJax was gone and so sad to See Al go.

Dunleavy>SJAX.

And Not only did we give up Al for Murphy we gave up our number 1 pick, which I wish we had instead of murphy as well. So maybe we should have never traded for Al in the first place, and done the SJAx Dunleavy deal, and we could be a 48 win team with Al or the draft pick we lost. Murphy is the weak link. But Ike could be the star that hasn't got to shine yet that could heavily tilt the deal in our favor. If any coach we ever have actually gives Ike a chance he is a double double guy, and along with Murphy, I would take over Al anyday. But this is all "what if" Ike actually got PT.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I agree completely with your post!

The day Jackson finally got traded is one of the best days of my life as a Pacers fan. GOOD RIDDANCE!

Kegboy
04-16-2008, 08:28 AM
http://www.nba.com/media/act_austin_croshere.jpg I'm crushed.

I knew you'd say that. You forget that I never cared for him after he started blaming Isiah for all his problems.

Unclebuck
04-16-2008, 10:17 AM
The ironic thing is the Warriors really wanted Harrington - Pacers really wanted Diogu. Warriors agreed to take Jackson off our hands, Pacers very reluctantly agreed to take Murphy. I think the Pacers sort of wanted Dunleavy. Oh and the Pacers wanted to get rid of Saras.

But if you look at the trade now. Al has been a disappointment, Ike has been a bust. Jackson and Dunleavy have played very well.

d_c
04-16-2008, 12:38 PM
The ironic thing is the Warriors really wanted Harrington - Pacers really wanted Diogu. Warriors agreed to take Jackson off our hands, Pacers very reluctantly agreed to take Murphy. I think the Pacers sort of wanted Dunleavy. Oh and the Pacers wanted to get rid of Saras.

But if you look at the trade now. Al has been a disappointment, Ike has been a bust. Jackson and Dunleavy have played very well.

Yep. Harrington was Mullin's target all summer long. He also happened to be the Pacers'. I'll never quite understand why he was so sought after, lol.

Word is Mullin didn't want to do the trade as was completed, but was nudged into it by Nellie, who felt it was absolutely crucial to get it done.

grace
04-16-2008, 12:38 PM
I knew you'd say that. You forget that I never cared for him after he started blaming Isiah for all his problems.

It was easier than putting up the team picture.

Major Cold
04-16-2008, 12:43 PM
Yep. Harrington was Mullin's target all summer long. He also happened to be the Pacers'. I'll never quite understand why he was so sought after, lol.

Word is Mullin didn't want to do the trade as was completed, but was nudged into it by Nellie, who felt it was absolutely crucial to get it done.

Taking on Edwards and Harrington and giving up Acie Law was horrible. Look what Acie is doing now.

<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="4">007-08 Statistics</td><td colspan="2" align="center">FG</td> <td colspan="2" align="center">3PT</td> <td colspan="2" align="center">FT</td> <td colspan="3" align="center">Rebounds</td> <td colspan="6" align="center">Misc</td> </tr> <tr class="colhead" align="right"> <td align="left">
</td> <td>G</td> <td>GS</td> <td>MIN</td> <td>FGM-A</td> <td>FG%</td> <td>3PM-A</td> <td>3P%</td> <td>FTM-A</td> <td>FT%</td> <td>OFF</td> <td>DEF</td> <td>TOT</td> <td>STL</td> <td>BLK</td> <td>TO</td> <td>PF</td> <td>AST</td> <td>PTS</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" style="text-align: right;"><td align="left">Season</td><td>55</td><td>6</td><td>15.7</td><td>95-237</td><td>.401</td><td>7-34</td><td>.206</td><td>38-48</td><td>.792</td><td>0.2</td><td>0.8</td><td>1.0</td><td>.53</td><td>.00</td><td>1.02</td><td>1.33</td><td>2.0</td><td>4.3</td></tr></tbody></table>

NuffSaid
04-16-2008, 01:30 PM
The "fluke" is that neither SJax or Big Al were able to propel the Warriors any further up that ladder of contension any more than Dun-Dun, Murphy or Ike in and of themselves moved the Pacers forward.

The "fluke" is despite the Warriors getting exactly what they wanted - an aggressive play-maker to compliment Baron Davis (and Monte Ellis) - in the end the best they could hope for remained the 8th seed.

Granted, the Warriors did improve their record from last year by 6 games (could be 7 if they beat the Sonics tonight), but the point I'm trying to make is that adding SJax and Big Al didn't make the Warriors a lock as contenders any more than acquiring Dun-Dun, Murphy or Ike did for the Pacers. They fought hard to get to the post-season last year, and I commended them then as I still do this day - a job very Well Done indeed! But they got there because they imposed their collective will on a Mavs team who simply wasn't prepared for the speed at which the Warriors came at them. For the Warriors, last year's post-season push was an adrineline rush! Not skill and certainly not dominance. They simply got lucky because Avery, IMO, got caught with their pants down. Nellie wanted alot of pay-back and his team, led by their newest member, Capt. Jack along Baron, got them there. This year, they couldn't pull off the same miracle.

You can win off adrineline only so many times. At some point skill has to be your main stay and the Warriors didn't have enough of it when it mattered most to get them over the hump. Same with my boyz, I might add. I'll give the Warriors (Mullins) credit though. For them, the trade was a good move. Not necessarily the best, but good because Baron needed another "warrior" to compliment his game. If they can find a better post-player in someone other than Big Al I think they'll be able to actually turn that corner and next year be one of the WC teams somewhere in the middle of the pack where they want to be.

d_c
04-16-2008, 01:35 PM
Taking on Edwards and Harrington and giving up Acie Law was horrible. Look what Acie is doing now.

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=stathead><TD colSpan=4>007-08 Statistics</TD><TD align=middle colSpan=2>FG</TD><TD align=middle colSpan=2>3PT</TD><TD align=middle colSpan=2>FT</TD><TD align=middle colSpan=3>Rebounds</TD><TD align=middle colSpan=6>Misc</TD></TR><TR class=colhead align=right><TD align=left>

</TD><TD>G</TD><TD>GS</TD><TD>MIN</TD><TD>FGM-A</TD><TD>FG%</TD><TD>3PM-A</TD><TD>3P%</TD><TD>FTM-A</TD><TD>FT%</TD><TD>OFF</TD><TD>DEF</TD><TD>TOT</TD><TD>STL</TD><TD>BLK</TD><TD>TO</TD><TD>PF</TD><TD>AST</TD><TD>PTS</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow style="TEXT-ALIGN: right"><TD align=left>Season</TD><TD>55</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>15.7</TD><TD>95-237</TD><TD>.401</TD><TD>7-34</TD><TD>.206</TD><TD>38-48</TD><TD>.792</TD><TD>0.2</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>1.0</TD><TD>.53</TD><TD>.00</TD><TD>1.02</TD><TD>1.33</TD><TD>2.0</TD><TD>4.3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Law is just like most PG prospects who have had good college careers: Overhyped and a total crapshoot.

People don't talk about it, but truth is most PG prospects are just as much a crapshoot as 7 foot bigmen. You'll get your surefire Chris Pauls, Derrick Roses and Baron Davises now and then, but most of the time it's a shot in the dark.

And Law was a 4 year college player and a starter for about 3.5 of them. Now this year he barely played for a team that was in desperate need of a PG.