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View Full Version : The biggest disappointment of the 2008 season-Jamaal Tinsley



Kstat
04-13-2008, 07:26 PM
This was the only real negative category I had, so i felt it was best to get it out of the way.

Don't worry, the next 4 awards will be better.

Once again, have at it folks. You have until next saturday to decide.

Kaufman
04-13-2008, 07:29 PM
If you would consider - make one of the options "the whole team". I don't think that you can pick between these guys.

Kstat
04-13-2008, 07:30 PM
If you would consider - make one of the options "the whole team". I don't think that you can pick between these guys.

You really wanted me to include Danny Granger or Jeff Foster in this poll?

Kaufman
04-13-2008, 07:34 PM
No no - meaning I think it is too hard to choose between the guys you listed. They have all been colassal disappointments. I think we should somehow congregate them all as one collective entity. Its your poll, and just a suggestion. Maybe term it "all of the above".

I see where you are going by the way you slanted it, and the answer is no, I don't think those guys should be included.

Another option to consider would be Jim O'Brien.

Kstat
04-13-2008, 07:37 PM
Put is this way- you can't give the MVP to both Kobe AND Chris Paul, right?

Well, this is the MVP award of sucking. Can't have more than 1 in this poll, either.

idioteque
04-13-2008, 07:39 PM
Tinsley no questions asked...he started the year out very well, and then turned back into sulky, bad Jamal. Darn me for thinking Obie would make a difference with him.

Ike in a close second.

Ownagedood
04-13-2008, 07:44 PM
All of the above option?

Kaufman
04-13-2008, 07:44 PM
And also not to troll you but you spelled disappointment in the title wrong as well as Jermaine in the poll. I usually don't pull the spelling card out but since it was in the title and in the poll...

Pacersfan46
04-13-2008, 07:47 PM
Jermaine to me. I thought this run and gun style would keep him from getting banged around in the post. Which would help him stay healthy. I thought it would benefit him in a lot of ways, but it's just not been that way at all.

-- Steve --

Roaming Gnome
04-13-2008, 07:52 PM
If you would consider - make one of the options "the whole team". I don't think that you can pick between these guys.

Why is that? As far as most predicted at the beginning of the season, we are a tad better then expected as a team. I know 35 wins is nothing to write home about, but most of the national sports people had us winning 10 games fewer and finishing last in the division.

As far as expectations from early on, not many had us fighting it out for a play-off spot.

As far as individual disappointments go, I listed Tinsley for a multitude of reasons. But, if it were just for play between the lines...Marquise Daniels wins this in a land slide.

Kaufman
04-13-2008, 07:54 PM
Why is that? As far as most predicted at the beginning of the season, we are a tad better then expected as a team. I know 35 wins is nothing to write home about, but most of the national sports people had us winning 10 games fewer and finishing last in the division.

As far as expectations from early on, not many had us fighting it out for a play-off spot.

As far as individual disappointments go, I listed Tinsley for a multitude of reasons. But, if it were just for play between the lines...Marquise Daniels wins this in a land slide.

read post #4

Kaufman
04-13-2008, 07:56 PM
Also, since I had to vote, or at least feel it to be my civic duty:

I picked Ike since I don't think JO, JT, nor Harrison were disappointments since I think we got out of them what we've come to expect from them --- a bunch of nothingness.

Hicks
04-13-2008, 09:02 PM
I went with Tinsley. Maybe things would have been different had he remained healthy, but then where have I heard that before. I have serious doubts about Jamaal's health, overall ability to be the PG we need, and I'm still skeptical about his attitude even though I don't buy the "he's all bad" kind of belief running around. I perhaps foolishly convinced myself this would be a resurrection year for Tinsley, and I have been left quite disappointed.

LoneGranger33
04-13-2008, 09:26 PM
I expect an injury from Jermaine and Jamaal every season, so they weren't disappointing as they could have been. Shawne, yeah, he didn't make any huge strides, but he doesn't get much time either. Ike, I suppose you could say the same thing, but I don't even see flashes of brilliance in his game - we screwed the pooch on that one methinks. David Harrison!? That's just plain ridiculous. Who the hell had high expectations of him!? I love the guy, don't get me wrong, but no way is he getting enough time to disappoint me.

And then there was Marquis Daniels.

Say what you will about his sense of style, his poor shooting, and the fact that his home was the site of a rape - I'm not even taking that into consideration. The guy is just not smart. His bball IQ is low, real low. He is the other teams best defender on fast breaks. He takes the worst shots I've ever seen; he makes Rashad McCants' shot selection look superb. I bet I could win a 1-on-1 with Quis, not because I have any basketball talent whatsoever, but at least I know what I'm doing out there. I suppose Coach O'Brien deserves some of the blame here, or Tinsley for forcing Marquis to do something he's not good at (play basketball), but still - are you kidding me?!

wintermute
04-13-2008, 09:29 PM
i voted quis because i thought he would play much better than this. especially after his terrific impact last year.

j.o. and tins of course are prime disappointments as well, but i sort of expected that already.

ike's development has been disappointing as well, but i couldn't vote for him because going in this year, after obie was hired, we already figured that he wasn't going to play much.

t1hs0n
04-13-2008, 10:31 PM
I picked big dave.

I really had hope for him after the first 10 or so game of the season.
With this being a contract year and all... I really thought the possibility of losing his job would drive him to a great year.

Oh, well.

tora tora
04-13-2008, 10:41 PM
Ike hasn't hardly played enough to get a vote. He could have had a hell of a season if he was given more minutes. My vote goes to Marquis Daniels, total slacker.

PacerGuy
04-13-2008, 10:42 PM
I voted Shawne.
-JO & Tin's could have got it, but I will exclude them due to injuries & my belief that coaches/trainers/PTB held some responsibility w/ letting them play < 100%, causing each to miss more time then they had to.
-Ike & David too, but I thing we kinda knew what we had w/ both, we were just hoping for more, & we didn't get it. I will lump Q into this catagory too.

I chose Shawne because in yr 2, I was expecting to see growth, development, & some of what was our "lottery pick - 1 yr early" as LB put it when Shawne was drafted. His lack of defense kept him off the court, & he still looks lost at times & is not aggressive offensively either. Add in his poor decision making off the court, & to me he is a no-brainer for this award.

Kegboy
04-13-2008, 10:50 PM
Like LG, I counted on JO and Tins being hurt, hence my infamous 32-win prediction.

I gave up on David a couple years ago, and Quis would have gotten my vote last year.

If anything, we've gotten more out of Shawne than I expected. But that's not saying much considering I would have taken a laptop stealing Jamaal-clone over him.

That leaves Ike. Remember, we didn't trade Al and Jack for Murphleavy, we traded them for Murphleavy and Ike Diogu. He was gonna make the trade worthwhile, remember?

:shakehead:

Anthem
04-13-2008, 11:08 PM
That leaves Ike. Remember, we didn't trade Al and Jack for Murphleavy, we traded them for Murphleavy and Ike Diogu. He was gonna make the trade worthwhile, remember?
I was going to vote Tinsley, because before the injury he had his insane week that we still haven't heard the story on.

But I can't disagree with this. Ike it is. Only possible rebuttal is that he's actually what I expected... a not-terribly-bright kid with an upside just under Big Nasty's. But I'd allowed myself to hope that I mis-judged him.

Raoul Duke
04-13-2008, 11:09 PM
I love how the guy running this is a Pistons fan.

Kstat
04-13-2008, 11:13 PM
I love how the guy running this is a Pistons fan.

I said several weeks back that I was going run a player awards show.

Dece
04-13-2008, 11:31 PM
Got to be JO, in my view. JT being injured was a big one too, but c'mon, JOB was playing him 40+ minutes every single night, if you didn't see it coming you weren't paying attention. JO just has no alibi.

JayRedd
04-14-2008, 12:04 AM
Marquis.

And it's not close.

Why did we think this guy was good last year? Were there special effects involved during the telecasts? Can UB get him traded again?

Regardless, I feel duped.

PacerGuy
04-14-2008, 12:07 AM
Got to be JO, in my view. JT being injured was a big one too, but c'mon, JOB was playing him 40+ minutes every single night, if you didn't see it coming you weren't paying attention. JO just has no alibi.

If you say not letting him recover 100% in the off seasen, even at the expense of missing camp & the start of the season "No Alibi", then I guess you are right. I just happen to disagree that his injury/rehab was handled correctly, causing the set-back that lost him for 33 straight games.
:annoyed:

duke dynamite
04-14-2008, 12:49 AM
Well, if I would have voted for Ike, it would be more or less not because I was disappointed at him, but disappointed that he didn't get to have a breakout season as expected and get the playing time to reach that goal.

CableKC
04-14-2008, 01:07 AM
I voted JONeal....I really hoped that he would actually play alot more games....at least missing his standard 15-20 games a season....but wasnt expecting him to be out so long.

rexnom
04-14-2008, 01:18 AM
Marquis.

And it's not close.

Why did we think this guy was good last year? Were there special effects involved during the telecasts? Can UB get him traded again?

Regardless, I feel duped.
Really? JO playing half the season...and not really that well...is not disappointing to you?

Kaufman
04-14-2008, 01:25 AM
i think a lot of people expected no more than a limited season from JO and JT

maragin
04-14-2008, 01:35 AM
Jermaine let me down by not being easier to trade, my expectations were low for most of the guys. I'd had hopes for Ike under the new system, but no luck.

If this went beyond players, I'd feel better about my vote.

JayRedd
04-14-2008, 01:41 AM
Really? JO playing half the season...and not really that well...is not disappointing to you?

Didn't expect much.

And every day that passes is one less day on that deal, so the mere passing of six months was a huge success in my book.

It's sort of like the inverse of Office Space; every day of Peter's life is the worst day of his life...but with us, every day of JO's contract is the best day of the deal.

Unclebuck
04-14-2008, 09:31 AM
Actually Tinsley played a lot better than I expected, and then he threw a fit as I expected, and then he was injured to end the season as I always expect - nothing he did (expect the good play in November and December) surprised me. So Tinsley was not a dissapointment.

The fact that Harrison actually played at all surprised me, the fact he was suspended for drug use didn't surprise me. So I was not disappointed with DH.

Shawne played as I expected - up and down

Marquis, was more of a disappointment - I did expect more out of him. Playing him as the backup point was a huge mistake and that hurt his game. Plus OBrien never seemed to use Daniels in pick and rolls or iso situations.

So the obvious answer for me is JO. Really, though at this point I expect him to be injured for about 50% of a season
Although I hope it wasn't true
this season convinced me what I feared. He cannot physically play NBA basketball anymore.

Naptown_Seth
04-14-2008, 09:57 AM
Tinsley - another incident, tons of missed games, and not a particularly healthy attitude on the court when he was playing. All this despite getting a coach that was going to "free him up".


JO hurts on the cost vs games played, but at least when he plays he's a key defender that drastically improves the team at one end.

Ike as the "key piece" to winning the GS trade has been a disaster. If he was the evaluation of this trade then they failed, but obviously most people look at Dunleavy's 3pt shooting this year and still give it a pass. Personally I look at that extra year of contracts, the total inflexability in the financial/trade dept, and the dramatic change in W-L records at both ends and think "was Ike worth this"?

Obviously he wasn't. The only reason he doesn't get my vote is because I didn't expect much more than Harrison out of him anyway.



I have to admit Redd makes an interesting case with Quis.

Shade
04-14-2008, 01:18 PM
I don't think I can call Jeriane that much of a disappointment. I don't even know who he is. :D

I went with Tinsley, because I was expecting big things from him, and he didn't disappoint early in the season.

Quis would be a close #2, but I have to give him credit for at least actually playing.

It's hard to dog Ike because he's played well in the extremely limited minutes he's gotten.

AesopRockOn
04-14-2008, 01:39 PM
For one, I thought the Quis for Austin deal was a great one for us and that he would be a regular contributor who would fight Dunleavy for starter minutes this year. So, my choice is Marquis Daniels.

OakMoses
04-14-2008, 04:22 PM
Actually Tinsley played a lot better than I expected, and then he threw a fit as I expected, and then he was injured to end the season as I always expect - nothing he did (expect the good play in November and December) surprised me. So Tinsley was not a dissapointment.


My thoughts exactly on Tinsley. I didn't really expect to get much out of him to begin with.

I had to go with Marquis on this one. I really felt like his injury was a huge factor in our collapse last year. I had visions of a healthy Marquis being a 12+ ppg scorer who played above average defense while coming off the bench as the primary backup at 3 positions. He's been nothing but a huge source of frustration this season. He shows flashes of talent. He occasionally does things that few players in the NBA can do. At times he is a great defender both on and off the ball. Most of the time, however, he takes terrible shots, turns the ball over, and plays mediocre defense.

I have JO and Ike in a tie for second. I hoped, but never really believed, that JO could be healthy. I hoped that Ike could play the whole season like he played the first 3 games.

grace
04-14-2008, 04:23 PM
They're all pretty disappointing in their own special ways.

NuffSaid
04-15-2008, 11:32 AM
There were several players on this team who let me down this year, but after giving it due consideration I'd have to say:

1) for failure to elevate his overall game: Ike Diogu. I really expected Ike to perform well this year as JO's backup, but after his returned from his injury earlier in the season he never was able to get it together. I'm not sure if the issue really was as coach O'Brien stated throughout the season, i.e., his poor defense or that he hadn't fully grasped the offensive schemes, or if it was a simple matter of coach preferring to go with the higher price tag veterans over the rookies, but whatever was the reason for his lack of playing time this fan was surely disappointed that he couldn't (or wasn't given the opportunity to) perform better.

2) for his inability to break out of old habits: Jamaal Tinsley. Nothing speaks to this issue more than his selfish play on January 8th where he single-handedly cost the team a win. Moreover, he continued to play recklessly from then on until he was made to sit out the rest of the year. To Jamaal's credit, he performed very well up until that one game, but dang!!! I was never so angry at one player for such boneheadedness in my life than I was on that day. (And might I add I was nearly equally upset with the coach for not taking measures in his own hands, i.e., rotating Jamaal outta there and going with Owens who had fresh legs and was performing fairly well at the time.)

3) for not meeting overall expectations: Kareem Rush. Lamented as "one of the best shooters in the league", I expected Rush to come in a be a legit lights-out 3-pt threat, but he failed miserably in that regard. He is my biggest disappointment because of all the players who comprised this year's roster, I expected alot more out of him. Now, to his credit when he realized that his long-ball game wasn't nearly as effective as even he had hoped he turned to other parts of his game, i.e., dribble penetrations, short-range step-in jump shots, improved perimeter defense. Nonetheless, I still looked for him to knock down far more clutch 3-pt shots than he did. Instead of Rush being the team's clutch shooter, that role was shared initially by Dunleavy and then as the Pacers' season neared its close Granger stepped in that role. So, for me the biggest disappointment of all as far as performance after being given lots of opportunities has to be Kareem Rush.

(Sidenote: Marquis Daniels was also a disappointment for me, but you can't expect much from a player who was plugged into the PG role when he's really a Scoring Guard. To that, Marquis did what was expected of him. If anything, he disappointed me by constantly turning the ball over from trying to do too much and for his inability to defend the perimeter! Most of those 3-pt shots made by our opponents came at his expense. He just is NOT a good defender. Nonetheless, I expected him to drive the lanes and score close-in at the basket and he didn't disappoint there. He just made some stupid mistakes out there in nearly every game, and while I was upset about that I wasn't nearly as disappointed in his play as far as him doing exactly what he was brought in to do - drive the lanes and breakdown defenses for the score. To that, he performed well, IMO.)

Speed
04-15-2008, 11:44 AM
There were several players on this team who let me down this year, but after giving it due consideration I'd have to say:

1) for failure to elevate his overall game: Ike Diogu. I really expected Ike to perform well this year as JO's backup, but after his returned from his injury earlier in the season he never was able to get it together. I'm not sure if the issue really was as coach O'Brien stated throughout the season, i.e., his poor defense or that he hadn't fully grasped the offensive schemes, or if it was a simple matter of coach preferring to go with the higher price tag veterans over the rookies, but whatever was the reason for his lack of playing time this fan was surely disappointed that he couldn't (or wasn't given the opportunity to) perform better.

2) for his inability to break out of old habits: Jamaal Tinsley. Nothing speaks to this issue more than his selfish play on January 8th where he single-handedly cost the team a win. Moreover, he continued to play recklessly from then on until he was made to sit out the rest of the year. To Jamaal's credit, he performed very well up until that one game, but dang!!! I was never so angry at one player for such boneheadedness in my life than I was on that day. (And might I add I was nearly equally upset with the coach for not taking measures in his own hands, i.e., rotating Jamaal outta there and going with Owens who had fresh legs and was performing fairly well at the time.)

3) for not meeting overall expectations: Kareem Rush. Lamented as "one of the best shooters in the league", I expected Rush to come in a be a legit lights-out 3-pt threat, but he failed miserably in that regard. He is my biggest disappointment because of all the players who comprised this year's roster, I expected alot more out of him. Now, to his credit when he realized that his long-ball game wasn't nearly as effective as even he had hoped he turned to other parts of his game, i.e., dribble penetrations, short-range step-in jump shots, improved perimeter defense. Nonetheless, I still looked for him to knock down far more clutch 3-pt shots than he did. Instead of Rush being the team's clutch shooter, that role was shared initially by Dunleavy and then as the Pacers' season neared its close Granger stepped in that role. So, for me the biggest disappointment of all as far as performance after being given lots of opportunities has to be Kareem Rush.

1.) Yes exactly, I couldn't say it better.

2.) I never had high expectation, hope yes, but real expectation no. Even before the Phoenix game, I didn't like how he was doing things most of the time on the court, it was just covered up by good numbers.

3.) I see your point, I just never expected anything more than what we got.

I'd add Murphy to disappointments. He played well for a stretch, but I really thought he'd do what Dunleavy ended up doing. I also thought Shawne would break out this year a bit and again he had some nice stretches, but nothing of what I expected. There was talk on here of who was more valued between him and Granger. Danny quieted that completely.

NuffSaid
04-15-2008, 12:19 PM
I'd add Murphy to disappointments. He played well for a stretch, but I really thought he'd do what Dunleavy ended up doing. I also thought Shawne would break out this year a bit and again he had some nice stretches, but nothing of what I expected. There was talk on here of who was more valued between him and Granger. Danny quieted that completely.
I never expected Murphy to do any more than what he did out there which was draw the defense away from the basket and knock down a few perimeter shots. When he finally decided to stop being a "decoy" and start imposing his will on the game, he did it so quietly that before any of us knew it the may had like 10 double-double games in a row! If anything disappointed me about Troy Murphy's game it was that once JO returned he began to fade away in JO, Granger and Dunleavy's shadow. Suddenly, all that good aggressive play was gone. And boy did the team miss it.

JO did what he was suppost to do on his return: he locked down the interior defense. Murphy was suppose to continue with his aggressive play with strong power moves to the basket. He didn't. Instead, he deferred. (Either that or 1) his teammates stopped looking for him; or 2) coach stopped running plays for him. Your guess as to what was really going on is as good as mine. Regardless, Murphy all but disappeared these last 10 games or so, and I'd really like to know why?)

NapTonius Monk
04-15-2008, 12:38 PM
I'm going to say JO, because I got sucked up in the "This is the best I've felt in years" talk. What's it going to be next year? "I shouldn't have come back as soon as I did, and I reaggravated my knee, and I'm going to sit out this year to really get my knee right, and to get back to the level I'm used to playing at." Anyway, I do love JO as a Pacer. It's just unfortunate that we are the most vulnerable at the 2 hardest positions to get upgraded (1 and 5). Marquis is a close 2nd. Tinsley; I'm only surprised it took him as long as it did to sit out the year. Ike and Shawne, it's too soon to say.

Since86
04-15-2008, 01:20 PM
I voted Shawne.
-JO & Tin's could have got it, but I will exclude them due to injuries & my belief that coaches/trainers/PTB held some responsibility w/ letting them play < 100%, causing each to miss more time then they had to.


I don't know how many times it has to be said. A trainer can't keep a player out of the line up, they can only give their personal opinion.

That's the reason why the NFL had to go and put a rule in place about concussions, because the players wanted to play (and so did management), even when it's a direct health concern.

Besides that fact, Tinsley himself ADMITTED that he didn't listen and played when they told him he shouldn't. But like it has been around here forever, continue to harp on it always being the trainers fault for injuries.



Tinsley - another incident, tons of missed games, and not a particularly healthy attitude on the court when he was playing. All this despite getting a coach that was going to "free him up".


QFT. Tinsley was hyped up for this year, we got the quotes about JOB treating him like a man, and how he made the trip down to Atlanta to personally talk to Tins about how important he was.

Well Tins has his string of injuries, him and JOB butt heads, then Tins is shut down for the year. Wow, what a timing of the events.

Could he really be injured enough where he couldn't play, or atleast shouldn't, or was it that he and JOB didn't get along as well as we were led to believe? I happen to think it's the latter, due to his history of missing games with sinuspoutis. The timing is just too big of a coincidence for me.

McKeyFan
04-15-2008, 02:02 PM
I voted Shawne.

JO, JT, Harrison all performed as expected.

Quis is mediocre, a disappointment on and off the court, but not as big a disappointment THIS YEAR as Shawne. We already had foreshadowing last year of Quis's off the court issues. His performance on the court, along with his ridiculous costume, imply to me that he doesn't take the game very seriously, including preparation, study, and practicing his shot (which, apparently, is something his teammates got him to start doing, like, the last three weeks of the season).

But back to Shawne. As the season prepared for its opening, Shawne showed us as much bball savvy and talent as anyone who'd come through Pacerland in a while. Then he gets arrested and starts associating with gun violators, murderers, and pot smokers (Shawne had nothing to do with that doobie in his car, lol).

Shawne's initial incident was like a kick in the gut for me. Our franchise's collapse can be directly related to poor character. Then, our most promising young guy continues the refrain. Later in the season, he sits the bench for weeks because management doesn't want friends of murderers to be front and center. All this further confirms that Shawne's incident in the summer wasn't an innocent, youthful indiscretion. He's a guy with more character issues.

Truly a disappointment for me.

Kstat
04-19-2008, 09:25 PM
Tinsley by a nose. It was a tough contest.

Mourning
04-19-2008, 10:29 PM
For one, I thought the Quis for Austin deal was a great one for us and that he would be a regular contributor who would fight Dunleavy for starter minutes this year. So, my choice is Marquis Daniels.

Same here.

I was sort of expecting this sort of season mainly from Jamaal and to a lesser extent from JO (in that he missed more games then I would have predicted).

Harrison I actually liked how he started, but was a little :shudder: from the thought he might actually play himself into a (well paid) contract with us... I don't think we have to worry about that anymore. Or that's what I hope atleast.

Shawne has been dissappointing, but he's still so young, so I sort of expected him to go in strides. The off the court had me fuming at one point and hoping for a trade in the summer. I have cooled down a bit and hope we keep him (but on a SHORT leash).

Ike. Well he just doesn't seem suited to JOB, but I must say I was VERY enthousiastic about him early in the season... and then he got injured and never really got back. I still have some hope hearing coach talk about his work ethic and trying hard to improve on defence.

But, to me by FAR the biggest dissappointment has been Daniels. Decisionmaking, passing, cunning moves/thoughts (or better lack of), and even his defense quite a lot more then I had hoped for left a lot to be desired. Congrats Quis :sad:.

Regards,

Mourning :cool: