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View Full Version : What if? - The Atlanta Hawks



OakMoses
04-08-2008, 09:13 PM
In 1999, the Hawks had 4 1st round draft picks. They took Jason Terry (#10), Cal Bowdler (#17), Dion Glover (#20), Jumaine Jones (#27). Here are the guys they could have had: Corey Maggette (#13), Ron Artest (#16), Jeff Foster (#21), Andrei Kirilenko (#24), Manu Ginobili (#57)

In 2000, they had the 6th pick, they took DerMarr Johnson. They could have had Jamal Crawford (#8), Hedo Turkoglu (#16), Quentin Richardson (#18), Michael Redd (#43).

In 2001, they had the 3rd pick and drafted Pau Gasol. They traded him to Vancouver for Shareef Abdur-Rahim and the rights to Jamaal Tinsley, whom they traded to Indy for a 1st round pick. They could have kept Gasol, or drafted one of these guys: Jason Richardson, Joe Johnson, Richard Jefferson, Zach Randolph, Gerald Wallace, Tony Parker, or Gilbert Arenas.

In 2002 the Hawks should have had the 8th pick, but they had traded it to the Clippers in 1999 for Lorenzen Wright. They could have drafted Amare Stoudamire, Caron Butler, Tayshaun Prince, or Carlos Boozer. They did trade for the 28th pick and select Dan Dickau - with Boozer still on the board.

In 2003 the Hawks should have had the 8th pick once again. Instead they traded it to Milwaukee for Glen Robinson. They also had the 21st pick from the Pacers. With the 8th pick they could have had T.J. Ford or David West. With the 21st pick they drafted Boris Diaw while players like Leandro Barbosa, Josh Howard, and Maurice Williams were still on the board. (Yes, this does mean that we could have had Barbosa if we hadn't traded for Tinsley.)

In 2004 Atlanta had the #6 and #17 selections. They picked Josh Childress at #6 and Josh Smith at #17. Here are the guys they passed on: Luol Deng (#7), Andre Iguodala (#9), Al Jefferson (#15), Kevin Martin (#26).

In 2005 Atlanta had the #2 pick. They took Marvin Williams, passing on Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Andrew Bynum, and Danny Granger.

In 2006 Atlanta had the #5 pick and took Shelden Williams. They passed on Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay.

So, had the Hawks taken the best player available with each of their picks since 1999, here's how it would have looked:

1999 - Terry, Foster, Kirilenko, Ginobili
2000 - Redd
2001 - Gasol or Arenas
2002 - Amare Stoudamire or Caron Butler
2003 - 2 of Ford, West, Josh Howard, Barbosa
2004 - 2 of Jefferson, Iguodala, Josh Smith, Kevin Martin
2005 - Chris Paul or Deron Williams
2006 - Brandon Roy

Hindsight is 20/20, I know, but that's just awful.

Kaufman
04-08-2008, 09:17 PM
True, all that you wrote, but you could just as easily go through Pacers drafts and second guess the mistakes that our front office made.

OakMoses
04-08-2008, 09:20 PM
True, all that you wrote, but you could just as easily go through Pacers drafts and second guess the mistakes that our front office made.

You could do one of these for every team. They've all made bad decisions. They just haven't made them every year for the last 10 years like the Hawks have.

Pacersfan46
04-08-2008, 09:24 PM
Main catch I see here .... if you draft .... Kirilenko, Gino, Redd, Gasol, and Amare .... I doubt you're even in the lottery anymore for the others to matter. Hah

-- Steve --

Kaufman
04-08-2008, 09:26 PM
Where in montana are you?

OakMoses
04-08-2008, 09:26 PM
Main catch I see here .... if you draft .... Kirilenko, Gino, Redd, Gasol, and Amare .... I doubt you're even in the lottery anymore for the others to matter. Hah

-- Steve --

Yeah, if they hit on say 2 out of any 4 of those picks, they wind up being playoff contenders.

OakMoses
04-08-2008, 09:27 PM
Where in montana are you?

Great Falls

Kaufman
04-08-2008, 09:39 PM
so thats not too far from pretty Glacier NP and Kalispell and those places. Good job on being in a pretty place.

I've been to Great Falls - not much going on there but close to beauty as one could want!

Ownagedood
04-08-2008, 10:49 PM
True, all that you wrote, but you could just as easily go through Pacers drafts and second guess the mistakes that our front office made.
Ya, but it's worse for them because they actually have GOOD picks.. We are usually 15+.. They are under 10 a lot.. Therefore, if they had a good scout.. They would be AMAZING.. Of course, they wouldn't have gotten all those picks had they made the right picks in the beginning..But still.. That would make me furious as a Hawk fan.. Just missing an incredible guy year after year because of bad scouting.

Infinite MAN_force
04-08-2008, 11:23 PM
Our only real miss since 99 that I noticed was taking Fred Jones instead of Prince, but I blame that on Isaiah. Our scouts wanted Prince.

Some might say shawne williams over Rondo, but its too early to say. I think Shawne will eventually be the better player.

BobbyMac
04-08-2008, 11:29 PM
The draft is a crap shoot. No guarentees.

Roaming Gnome
04-08-2008, 11:47 PM
To sum this thread up...

(I'll say once again...) If my aunt had 'nads, she'd be my uncle!
-or-
If, If's and but's were candy and nuts... We'd all have a happy holiday.

Trader Joe
04-09-2008, 12:03 AM
The Paul one was a horrible move then, it is a horrible move now, and it will be a horrible move forever.

OakMoses
04-09-2008, 09:44 AM
The Paul one was a horrible move then, it is a horrible move now, and it will be a horrible move forever.

I'd put the drafting of Shelden Williams over Brandon Roy in the same category. I know the Hawks didn't need another SG, but it makes a perfect case of why choosing need over talent is a retched idea. Anybody (other than Michael Jordan, Billy Knight, Brian Colangelo, and Kevin McHale) who watched Roy play in college could tell he was going to be great.

Phildog
04-09-2008, 04:12 PM
I'd put the drafting of Shelden Williams over Brandon Roy in the same category. I know the Hawks didn't need another SG, but it makes a perfect case of why choosing need over talent is a retched idea. Anybody (other than Michael Jordan, Billy Knight, Brian Colangelo, and Kevin McHale) who watched Roy play in college could tell he was going to be great.


Great? Really? I'm still not so sure. Scoring on a team like Memphis is not much of a feat

NuffSaid
04-09-2008, 05:26 PM
One of the reason I don't put too much stock in the draft is the exact example given above concerning the Hawks' draft history. But in all fairness, most teams will try to fill a "need" through the draft long before they seek to acquire a "want". The best collegit player in the world could be right there for the pickings like a Christmas goose on a platter before a hungry man, but unless they see a reason to take that player, i.e., draft him then trade him to another team looking for a player of such caliber for a veteran/proven player you need, they'll usually ster clear of him.

The other is unless said player is considered to be an immediate impact player, ala, Kobe, LeBron, Melo, it'll ususally be another 2-3 yrs before he's able to make any sort of impact with his new team. And considering that Pacer fans want their team to be contenders right now rather than another 3-4 yrs from now, I don't see where most take the "tank for draft picks" approach at all.

BillS
04-09-2008, 06:12 PM
And considering that Pacer fans want their team to be contenders right now rather than another 3-4 yrs from now, I don't see where most take the "tank for draft picks" approach at all.

Because they think a #11 draft pick makes your team better, while a number #15 pick is always useless?

Because they think the Bent Envelope and Sticky Ping Pong Ball situations will get us a make-up call this year?

Because it's easier to yell at TPTB for blowing a draft pick after 3-5 years of hindsight than it is to try to figure out what to do with existing players?

Gee, this is fun!

larry
04-09-2008, 08:39 PM
In 1999, the Hawks had 4 1st round draft picks. They took Jason Terry (#10), Cal Bowdler (#17), Dion Glover (#20), Jumaine Jones (#27). Here are the guys they could have had: Corey Maggette (#13), Ron Artest (#16), Jeff Foster (#21), Andrei Kirilenko (#24), Manu Ginobili (#57)

In 2000, they had the 6th pick, they took DerMarr Johnson. They could have had Jamal Crawford (#8), Hedo Turkoglu (#16), Quentin Richardson (#18), Michael Redd (#43).

In 2001, they had the 3rd pick and drafted Pau Gasol. They traded him to Vancouver for Shareef Abdur-Rahim and the rights to Jamaal Tinsley, whom they traded to Indy for a 1st round pick. They could have kept Gasol, or drafted one of these guys: Jason Richardson, Joe Johnson, Richard Jefferson, Zach Randolph, Gerald Wallace, Tony Parker, or Gilbert Arenas.

In 2002 the Hawks should have had the 8th pick, but they had traded it to the Clippers in 1999 for Lorenzen Wright. They could have drafted Amare Stoudamire, Caron Butler, Tayshaun Prince, or Carlos Boozer. They did trade for the 28th pick and select Dan Dickau - with Boozer still on the board.

In 2003 the Hawks should have had the 8th pick once again. Instead they traded it to Milwaukee for Glen Robinson. They also had the 21st pick from the Pacers. With the 8th pick they could have had T.J. Ford or David West. With the 21st pick they drafted Boris Diaw while players like Leandro Barbosa, Josh Howard, and Maurice Williams were still on the board. (Yes, this does mean that we could have had Barbosa if we hadn't traded for Tinsley.)

In 2004 Atlanta had the #6 and #17 selections. They picked Josh Childress at #6 and Josh Smith at #17. Here are the guys they passed on: Luol Deng (#7), Andre Iguodala (#9), Al Jefferson (#15), Kevin Martin (#26).

In 2005 Atlanta had the #2 pick. They took Marvin Williams, passing on Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Andrew Bynum, and Danny Granger.

In 2006 Atlanta had the #5 pick and took Shelden Williams. They passed on Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay.

So, had the Hawks taken the best player available with each of their picks since 1999, here's how it would have looked:

1999 - Terry, Foster, Kirilenko, Ginobili
2000 - Redd
2001 - Gasol or Arenas
2002 - Amare Stoudamire or Caron Butler
2003 - 2 of Ford, West, Josh Howard, Barbosa
2004 - 2 of Jefferson, Iguodala, Josh Smith, Kevin Martin
2005 - Chris Paul or Deron Williams
2006 - Brandon Roy

Hindsight is 20/20, I know, but that's just awful.


These what if draft picks never work, because if they take any diff. player than the win total goes up & the pick # goes down each year.
Not only does this change the Hawks position, but makes other teams change.
Sorry, but the team you list would never ever happen even w/ the front office making the best choice every time.
05 has gotta hurt though.

Infinite MAN_force
04-09-2008, 09:06 PM
Great? Really? I'm still not so sure. Scoring on a team like Memphis is not much of a feat

Roy plays for Portland, I think your thinking of Rudy Gay.

Eindar
04-10-2008, 03:59 AM
Because they think a #11 draft pick makes your team better, while a number #15 pick is always useless?

Because they think the Bent Envelope and Sticky Ping Pong Ball situations will get us a make-up call this year?

Because it's easier to yell at TPTB for blowing a draft pick after 3-5 years of hindsight than it is to try to figure out what to do with existing players?

Gee, this is fun!

#11 isn't statistically significant over #15 unless a guy falls to #13 and ends up being an All-Star for years and years. Then you're going to remember the time we almost got the steal of the draft, but instead got clobbered by the Celtics.

As for the ping pong balls, #11 doesn't have many more chances than #14, but if we could get down to #10 or higher, which now seems unlikely thanks to our winning streak, the percentages become much more friendly.

And you're right, it is fun. I've seen the KC Chiefs do this year after year, and one of the worst things you can do is *almost* make the playoffs. We happen to be lucky that the West is so good this year that we get an extra bonus of a few spots by not making the playoffs, but it's still a losing game plan.

I'm pretty ok with either scenario, unless my nightmare of someone like Anthony Randolph going at #12 with us at #15 and becoming a dominant big man in a few years happens.

OakMoses
04-10-2008, 10:00 AM
These what if draft picks never work, because if they take any diff. player than the win total goes up & the pick # goes down each year.
Not only does this change the Hawks position, but makes other teams change.
Sorry, but the team you list would never ever happen even w/ the front office making the best choice every time.
05 has gotta hurt though.

No, I wasn't saying they could have had all those guys on the same team, I know that would be ridiculous. I was merely pointing out how consistently wrong they were in all of their choices. In most cases they had high draft picks and not only did they not get the best player available, they got a player who's not any good at all.

grace
04-10-2008, 03:38 PM
What if?-Michael Jordan had never been born. Just think of all the titles the Pacers would have by now. Depressing ain't it.