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View Full Version : How confident are you in our SG position?



QuickRelease
04-07-2008, 09:48 PM
I know that the Center and PG slots are our biggest need, but how upset would you be if the Pacers went SG in the draft? We're pretty weak defensively at both backcourt slots.

andreialta
04-07-2008, 10:17 PM
nothing wrong with getting a good back up sg if there isnt any big man to be pickin in the draft

Young
04-07-2008, 11:14 PM
I don't like our shooting guard position or our backcourt in general.

I feel that every elite team will have a lockdown wing defender, either a 2 or a 3. Danny is not that neither is Mike.

In terms of the backups well Marquis hasn't really impressed me. I do like Kareem.

Anthem
04-07-2008, 11:14 PM
We don't have a SG. We play two SFs.

CableKC
04-07-2008, 11:19 PM
I thought about it and figured that IF Marquis is traded ( as an Expiring Contract and for PR reasons ), Kareem or Flip is not resigned ( which I don't really mind ), then we would need to have a 4th Player at the SG/SF rotation behind Granger/Dunleavy/Shawne. This means that anybody there would get about 5-10 minutes a game...which would be perfect for a Rookie Backup SG.

Taking a que from Seth's list of Guards that he has followed ;), I would be okay with drafting a SG as long as it's one of the ones mentioned in the main Recruiting thread.....Rush, CDR, Weaver or even Lee...most of which would be worth it at the 15-30 spots ( depending on who is picked ).

But if we drafted one of them too early...like with the 13th pick...then he may not be worth it. That's why I really hope that we can get a 2nd 1st round pick in the 20s.

jeffg-body
04-07-2008, 11:33 PM
I have to agree that SG should be a main concern, but it will require us trading away one of our SF positions. Of the three we have, I think Shawne should be traded. I like CDR a lot but my only worry is can he keep up with NBA SG's through screens and picks. My plan would be to get an impact player at the Center position in the early 1st round and try to move up to get a guy like CDR via trade. The other move would have to include sending a healthy JO somewhere for expirings and a good solid PG. Maybe not a household name, but one who is solid like Jack in Portland. With the Tin Man, buy him out and let him be someone elses problem child. Either way, expect to see a lot of new faces in Indy next year.

PR07
04-07-2008, 11:40 PM
I think SG is a more pressing need than center at this time if JO can stay healthy. A Foster/Murphy platoon should be more than enough to get it done in the Eastern Conference.

Major Cold
04-07-2008, 11:55 PM
Dunleavy would be ideal coming off of the bench. We need a penetrator and lock down defender.

pwee31
04-08-2008, 12:12 AM
I like Dun Dun and Granger, if we can get a real PG, we'll be on our way

Kstat
04-08-2008, 12:16 AM
You aren't going to do much better than Dunleavy at #11. it isn't a draft deep at the 2-guard spot.

The Pacers aren't so set right now that they can afford to spend a lottery pick on a backup.

Infinite MAN_force
04-08-2008, 12:45 AM
Ideally I would like to see Dunleavy in the 6th man role. I don't think we exactly need a superstar SG though, A role player type that can be our premier peremter defender and who can go strong to the hoop would suffice.

I don't think its a top priority though... i like diener in his role, but we desperatly need to find that "other PG" and the center spot needs to get figured out because JO cannot be around for much longer... We cannot afford him.

Im really curious about Stephan Graham, he was billed as a defensive role player type when he was brought on but has produced offense at every oppurtunity, which have been few and far between. I wonder if he could be our defensive stopper, if he could ever get a chance. In like the two games all year he got meaningful minutes he scored a lot of points and usually by going to the rack. I just want to see if he could be consistent in heavy minutes, offensively and defensively.

Kofi
04-08-2008, 12:50 AM
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5421/rwct7.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FP0ua5xFw4)

AesopRockOn
04-08-2008, 01:15 AM
Trade up for Ovinton-J'Anthony.

duke dynamite
04-08-2008, 02:32 AM
Why is there such a problem with keeping Danny and Dun Dun where they are? You can't bring Dunleavy off the bench. Not happening. These guys are obviously showing that they can work at those positions, so why is this such a big deal?

Let us worry about getting a good starting PG, so we won't have to worry about Flip anymore. The PG position is what we need to focus on more than anything. You get someone in there that could possibly start and control the offense. Regardless if we draft a PG, we will need to get a veteran FA to come in and start so the new guy can get his feet wet. I would really hate to wear Travi out so early in a season. He was a great steal for this organization and can only grow. (No pun intended)

We need backups in the center and PF position more than anything else besides a true starting PG. We need someone who can provide a defensive surge when needed. I don't like having to rely on the offense to pull us through a game. I am really torn over Murph and Foster. Foster at this point can really rebound, but he can't make a jump shot to save his life. (Thanks to heywoode for making me notice that)

I don't care if Ike and the others are good. The coach doesn't play them. It's a shame, but I don't think we should keep players we never throw out onto the court (only when we are down big) or let alone dress. We need backups that O'Brien will play.

Again, keep Danny and Dun Dun where they are. They can trade positions if neccesary. They've done such a great job compared to previous seasons. I'm sure since this season Mike has had this offensive surge, he may be motivated to work on his defense this off-season.

EDIT: Do you really think any rookie will be worth putting in the starting line up in place of Danny or Mike? Not to sound harsh, but I doubt that.


I like Dun Dun and Granger, if we can get a real PG, we'll be on our way
I just supported your post. I like your thinking! I don't know what you define a "real PG" as, but a PG doesn't always have to be a real scoring threat. It's nice, but someone who can control the tempo of an offense. Travi really does a great job at doing that. Yes, he has had some great, great surges this season, and a bad slump or two, but he can hang onto the ball and maintain the offensive tempo better than most PG's out there with his experience.

Infinite MAN_force
04-08-2008, 03:22 AM
Yeah, I don't really think Danny and Mike are the problem in general. I can understand the reasoning behind the idea of combining an elite perimeter defender with a great scorer. Seems like more of a tweak to me though, and as Larry has said and I agree, PG and Center are possibly the two most important positions and wings are plentiful.

Javale Mcghee is looking pretty good to me latley. :D

You know Im not entirely convinced Danny can't be that guy either. The lockdown defender. I remember a recent quote from Obrien saying thats the next step Danny needs to take in his development, and the way he has improved this year, its hard to rule him out.

Reckoner
04-08-2008, 04:21 AM
PG is the most important position in basketball at the moment and our biggest weakness IMO. Tinsley has the talent and I'm a massive fan but surely his time at this club is over barring an incredible turn around. Diener is a nice back up.

I wouldn't like to see Dun moved out of the starting line up. Been great this season and I've always thought he was a confidence player who thrives on minutes and responsibility so being moved out of the starting line up could be disasterous for him.

A fit JO and we have a strong front court. But if he's leaving we need new blood there but PG definately should be the priority.

rexnom
04-08-2008, 04:24 AM
I am fairly confident in our SF position.

Justin Tyme
04-08-2008, 07:01 AM
Let's think of the team as a machine. The machine won't or can't function properly without the right type of motor to run it. With the Pacers team that motor is the PG. When Tinsley played to his capabilities, the team plays totally different, more like a well oiled machine. The Pacers need a PG that can run the team, whether that's a draft pick or acquiring one through a trade.

In the ideal situation, it would be a pass first get others involved type PG that can, unlike Tinsley play defense. One that can stop the opposing PG from penetrating to take it to the rack or pass to an open player. The Pacers need a defensive stopper in the backcourt. This is the most important need they have. They need the motor to run the machine. Diener is a nice b/u PG, but that's just what he is, a b/u PG that can bring energy and shooting into the game. The Pacers need a PG with some size that can play lockdown defense on the opponent's PG to stop him from breaking down the Pacers/ defense.

This is the Pacers most important need IMO, moreso than a center at the present time.

Speed
04-08-2008, 07:47 AM
Dunleavy would be ideal coming off of the bench. We need a penetrator and lock down defender.


We have so many people on here who get it. I'll just echo everyone else.

We only have one shooting guard on the team and he'd be a great back up 2 in Kareem Rush. Daniels can be a shooting guard, but he just can't shoot. I'd agree with Dun getting starters minutes, but being one of the best off the bench guys in the league.

To me, and I know people say center, but to me its Point Guard by far is the biggest need and shooting guard and Center next, almost even in need. The 2 guard position is just masked by having two quality guys getting minutes there in Dun and Granger.

The Point Guard is where Deiner is a great surprise, but would be a good 2nd point guard on a good team.

If you want this team to almost instantly change there fortunes, get a starting caliber pure point guard, it would make all the difference. I always say this, but put Andre Miller on this team as its constructed right now and they are a 4 seed in the East.

Otherwise, you need don't pass on a starting 2 to get a back up point guard in the draft and you don't draft a project center Hibbert or Thabeet and pass on a starting 2.

Putnam
04-08-2008, 07:50 AM
True enough, Justin. We need a better and more reliable point guard. But the Pacers are solid at only one of 5 starter positions. There is a whole lot they need. A car needs wheels just as much as it needs an engine.

Drafting is shooting guard is OK if a shooting guard is the best player the Pacers can pick or trade for. I'll be miffed if they pick a small forward, but any other positions might be a good pick.

The 1 guy the Pacers draft is not going to be "the answer." There isn't going to be one answer, but several. This needs to be a very active summer, and the player we draft may be the least of our moves.

Ballerzfan
04-08-2008, 08:14 AM
. If you want this team to almost instantly change there fortunes, get a starting caliber pure point guard, it would make all the difference. I always say this, but put Andre Miller on this team as its constructed right now and they are a 4 seed in the East.

Otherwise, you need don't pass on a starting 2 to get a back up point guard in the draft and you don't draft a project center Hibbert or Thabeet and pass on a starting 2.

Spot on imo.

BillS
04-08-2008, 08:24 AM
I think if we can't get a PG we get someone we can package for a PG.

If we don't improve the PG spot this summer, we haven't done anything.

count55
04-08-2008, 09:24 AM
True enough, Justin. We need a better and more reliable point guard. But the Pacers are solid at only one of 5 starter positions. There is a whole lot they need. A car needs wheels just as much as it needs an engine.

Drafting is shooting guard is OK if a shooting guard is the best player the Pacers can pick or trade for. I'll be miffed if they pick a small forward, but any other positions might be a good pick.

The 1 guy the Pacers draft is not going to be "the answer." There isn't going to be one answer, but several. This needs to be a very active summer, and the player we draft may be the least of our moves.

Single, most sensible, accurate statement I've seen in quite some time.

Kegboy
04-08-2008, 09:55 AM
I'm not confident in any position. We need to draft the best player available. As long as it's not Chase Buddinger.

Rajah Brown
04-08-2008, 09:57 AM
Assuming they end up at #11, the Pacers are in a tough slot.
Unless a few GM's are asleep at the switch, there's not gonna
be a PG or a 'big' at #11 that isn't a fairly big reach at the spot.

If they can't either trade up or back, their best bet will probably
be to take the guy they project as the best player down the
road regardless of position (and fortunately, in this draft,
that shoudn't be a SF).

Dr. Goldfoot
04-08-2008, 10:13 AM
I think you pass on this position for now. Relatively speaking, SG is pretty solid on this team.

Infinite MAN_force
04-08-2008, 10:54 AM
Let's think of the team as a machine. The machine won't or can't function properly without the right type of motor to run it. With the Pacers team that motor is the PG. When Tinsley played to his capabilities, the team plays totally different, more like a well oiled machine. The Pacers need a PG that can run the team, whether that's a draft pick or acquiring one through a trade.

In the ideal situation, it would be a pass first get others involved type PG that can, unlike Tinsley play defense. One that can stop the opposing PG from penetrating to take it to the rack or pass to an open player. The Pacers need a defensive stopper in the backcourt. This is the most important need they have. They need the motor to run the machine. Diener is a nice b/u PG, but that's just what he is, a b/u PG that can bring energy and shooting into the game. The Pacers need a PG with some size that can play lockdown defense on the opponent's PG to stop him from breaking down the Pacers/ defense.

This is the Pacers most important need IMO, moreso than a center at the present time.

I think the key here is that while I agree somewhat, I don't think the PG prospects where we are drafting are quite up to snuff. Agustin is gonna have some of the same problems diener has being undersized, and though westbrook is a great athelete, he doesen't have the PG skills.

Its why they say take the most talented player available. Now for god sakes we should not take another small forward, nor should we take another player who will be a defensive liability, but personally I like the center prospects (mchgee) around that range better than augistin, collison, or westbrook. Though westbrook is intruiging as he could be that defensive stopper/slasher, though he is a bit short, but no more than Monta Ellis.

if we moved up to three, I would actually go Bayless over Lopez, because I think Bayless will be better. 1 or 2, uhhh, yeah Rose.

Taterhead
04-08-2008, 10:59 AM
I would like to see the Pacers use Granger and maybe Diogu to move up and get Derrick Rose. I think Rose is going to be a SUPER star PG and Granger is one year from a big deal that will furthur hamper our cap flexibility. Don't get me wrong I love Danny, but he has the most trade value of any player we have. Plus we already have Dunleavy and a young Shawne Williams to play SF, therefor he is the easiest to replace. I also think Dunleavy would play even better at SF fulltime, where his quickness with the ball would be a greater advantage for him.

Then I would like them to try and land Mickael Pietrus. Pietrus is buried on the bench in GS behind Ellis, Jackson and Azubuikeso he could probably be had for the MLE. I think he could be an Andre Igoudala type player if given time on the court. Rose and Pietrus would give us a great defensive backcourt that is pretty young. Then maybe you can package Daniels and another player for some help in the front court.

I think they should keep Jermaine next year. He has 2 years left on his deal which mean his trade value will be a LOT higher after next year when it is in the final year. Plus we won't get any value for him. He is a top 5 defensvie PF when healthy, and those players are invaluable. If he can return to atleast 75-80% of what he was 3-4 years ago he will be better than anything we'll get, IMO.

I think the problem with this team has been perimter defense. The guards in general are all bad defenders. When your guards constantly need help on the perimeter, any good team can make three or four passes and get a wide open look.

Infinite MAN_force
04-08-2008, 11:07 AM
its a nice thought but I don't think it happens.

Our best bet is memphis wins the #2 pick and takes Rose and we manage to pry Conley from them for #11 + shawne Williams.

QuickRelease
04-08-2008, 12:27 PM
Trade up for Ovinton-J'Anthony.

WHO?

Naptown_Seth
04-08-2008, 12:42 PM
I thought about it and figured that IF Marquis is traded ( as an Expiring Contract and for PR reasons ), Kareem or Flip is not resigned ( which I don't really mind ), then we would need to have a 4th Player at the SG/SF rotation behind Granger/Dunleavy/Shawne. This means that anybody there would get about 5-10 minutes a game...which would be perfect for a Rookie Backup SG.

Taking a que from Seth's list of Guards that he has followed ;), I would be okay with drafting a SG as long as it's one of the ones mentioned in the main Recruiting thread.....Rush, CDR, Weaver or even Lee...most of which would be worth it at the 15-30 spots ( depending on who is picked ).

But if we drafted one of them too early...like with the 13th pick...then he may not be worth it. That's why I really hope that we can get a 2nd 1st round pick in the 20s.
I've really lost confidence in K Rush, especially on defense, yet I'd really like to get his brother in as a backup SG. Go figure.

Quis is okay, but not the outside shot they need and way too inconsistant.

I'd take Flip as the starting SG as a 1 year fix if you could draft a solid PG and let Diener back up. Then later get a backup SG too. This might be an Augustin/Lee situation with no real trading into the draft.


I know Kofi loves Westbrook as a PG. I don't. But I also don't like his jumper. Of course if your SFs are Mike/Danny and they are 40% from 3 then maybe it doesn't matter. So in that regard W'brook works as a top pick.

The SG options for Indy look to be - Gordon (I'd take him at 10-11, but he won't fall there), Mayo (same), and Westbrook. Everything else is reaching, and personally I think W'brook is a reach there too. See Doug-Rob and Rush as examples of similar talents that you could slot post 20 perhaps, barring their own "I saw them in the tourney so now I must have them" draft stock rise.


The issue is that both Augustin and Collison have their own holes and aren't ultimate PG solutions, they aren't bringing your Rose or even Bayless caliber play. But the kicker is that you could solve the defensive issue with a kid like Weaver falling deeper into the draft which frees you up to be more liberal with that first pick.

And of couse this is why I like Love at this point too if all the top guards push him out.

Speaking of bigs, Arthur and Dorsey both made their cases again last night. I'd take Dorsey over Thabeet as a REBOUNDING defender rather than just a shotblocking ace, and if you want quality post footwork and back to basket scoring you get Arthur.

Frankly there are plenty of solutions for the Pacers at their pick. I think you have to let the slips dictate what you go after. I wouldn't rule out SG as a pick and I certainly wouldn't chase PG.

If Bill Walker wasn't such a headcase on the court and as SF'ish and streaky as Jackson I'd take him in a heartbeat at 11-12.



The sad thing is half these kids are going to bust if you go by history. It will be Love or Lopez or Bayless or Gordon or Collison or Westbrook or Rush...you just know some of those names, some of those kids that showed high quality play and potential just aren't going to have enough at the next level.

JayRedd
04-08-2008, 12:46 PM
Is this a serious question?

Naptown_Seth
04-08-2008, 12:51 PM
BTW, if Chalmers stays I'd really like to get him next year. Heck, if he comes out and falls into the 20's I'd go get him there.

Not for that shot, but because I actually like his top-end PG play better than Augustin/Collison. Unlike those 2 he doesn't force his own action all the time, he was really good about finding guys in the post (a KU strength), he has a nice reach out wide bounce pass that he can use to feed around a defender, he's got a smooth jumper with some length to it, and he defends pretty well.

He makes mistakes, he's less poised than Rush despite that big make, but he looks like a guy that could be a Sam Cassell type to me.

Last night he ran one beautiful PnR with an outstanding return pass, very NBA caliber and smooth. His passes aren't always directly flashy, but they have the polish of a guy that's worked a lot of 2 man game in the KU system.

He's definitely a better passer than Augustin/Collison and I've thought so pretty much all year. It's almost a shame he had the big shot because if he comes out it might move him out of the Pacers 2nd pick reach (even with a trade up).

BillS
04-08-2008, 12:52 PM
I would like to see the Pacers use Granger and maybe Diogu to move up and get Derrick Rose. I think Rose is going to be a SUPER star PG and Granger is one year from a big deal that will furthur hamper our cap flexibility. Don't get me wrong I love Danny, but he has the most trade value of any player we have. Plus we already have Dunleavy and a young Shawne Williams to play SF, therefor he is the easiest to replace. I also think Dunleavy would play even better at SF fulltime, where his quickness with the ball would be a greater advantage for him.

Much as I would hate to get rid of one of the known "good eggs" on the roster who also happens to have talent, I think I'd do this.

I doubt if I would deal Granger for anything else.

However, given the rarity of PG talent in the league, only a team with either 2 superstar PGs already on the roster or with rocks in their head would do that deal.

Naptown_Seth
04-08-2008, 12:55 PM
I'm not confident in any position. We need to draft the best player available. As long as it's not Chase Buddinger.
If I hear his name or Hibbert I'm going down to Conseco. I just hope for their sake I cool off by the time I get there.

;)

Rajah Brown
04-08-2008, 01:20 PM
Chalmers reminds me of Tony Delk...or maybe, Bobby Jackson.
Seems like a kid who'd make a very solid, backup PG.

duke dynamite
04-08-2008, 01:33 PM
Single, most sensible, accurate statement I've seen in quite some time.


Let us worry about getting a good starting PG, so we won't have to worry about Flip anymore. The PG position is what we need to focus on more than anything. You get someone in there that could possibly start and control the offense. Regardless if we draft a PG, we will need to get a veteran FA to come in and start so the new guy can get his feet wet. I would really hate to wear Travi out so early in a season. He was a great steal for this organization and can only grow. (No pun intended)


That's what I've been saying...:laugh:

CableKC
04-08-2008, 02:50 PM
Speaking of bigs, Arthur and Dorsey both made their cases again last night. I'd take Dorsey over Thabeet as a REBOUNDING defender rather than just a shotblocking ace, and if you want quality post footwork and back to basket scoring you get Arthur.
I can only go by what their size is listed as....but isn't there a concern that their 6'9" frame isn't going to be tall enough for other NBA-Caliber PFs to shoot over?

I know that there is more to size then just height.....but there just doesn't appear to be that many "tall" 6'10"+ PFs that can score and rebound.

Taterhead
04-08-2008, 11:23 PM
Much as I would hate to get rid of one of the known "good eggs" on the roster who also happens to have talent, I think I'd do this.

I doubt if I would deal Granger for anything else.

However, given the rarity of PG talent in the league, only a team with either 2 superstar PGs already on the roster or with rocks in their head would do that deal.

I disagree on this. A team like Miami who has a guy like Wade controlling the ball most of the time has less of a need for a guy like Rose. If they could land Danny and Ike and still be able to pick up a solid PG like Augustin or Collison or project C like Hibbert or Thiabeet and maybe a future pick they would definately think long and hard about it.

Hopefully we hit the powerball and get Rose handed to us for free.

Kaufman
04-08-2008, 11:48 PM
I think Miami would absolutely love a guy like Rose.

And I also think that with Shawn Marion, they don't need Granger.

Robertmto
04-09-2008, 01:37 AM
I'm not confident in any position. We need to draft the best player available. As long as it's not Chase Buddinger.

you mean Brent Barry?