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wintermute
04-07-2008, 12:43 AM
snippet from ny daily news (mitch lawrence)

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2008/04/05/2008-04-05_jerry_colangelo_would_have_been_better_f.html?p age=1



With Walsh gone, Larry Bird gets to run the show in Indiana, where he has a reputation for attending practice once a week, maybe. That's why Indiana is looking for a GM who will come in and work the phones, deal with scouts, meet with coach Jim O'Brien and his assistants and make suggestions to Bird. "Larry just wants to make the decisions," said one rival GM. Philly's Billy King, high on Walsh's list for a position with the Knicks, is a candidate in Indiana, along with ex-Seattle executive Rick Sund. ...


not sure how i feel about this given that we've just gotten out of the two headed monster scenario (which everyone agreed was bad).

who has been handling the pacers' day to day operations the past few years anyway? it seems unlikely to have been walsh (health), nor bird (disinclined). was it morway? we knew he was involved in trades at least. if bird brings in a new gm, does it mean morway is on his way out?

i think we're all a bit tired of the incomprehensible hierarchy that seems to be the pacers organization. on the other hand, if this is part of bird's move to clean house and put in place a leaner, meaner structure, then i'm all for it.

duke dynamite
04-07-2008, 12:51 AM
At this point, why does it matter to any NY tabloid on what Indiana does?

QuickRelease
04-07-2008, 12:56 AM
I think this is a good idea, if it gets handled right. Not sure how high I am on Billy King. How do you think Vandegwhe would be as a GM?

rexnom
04-07-2008, 01:14 AM
What does Bird actually do? Jesus.

Aw Heck
04-07-2008, 01:24 AM
If all Bird wants to do is make decisions, then it sounds like what he really wants to be is an owner. Which makes sense I guess, considering he tried to buy the Bobcats before he joined the Pacers. But if he has no real interest in the day-to-day operations of a franchise, then he just needs to leave. He's nothing more than a figurehead if he's doing nothing but saying "yes" or "no" to things.

And if he does leave/get fired, I would rather have Morway take over. He's been here, he knows how things work. Let's promote him and see how he does, sink-or-swim. If he sinks, then fire him and bring in somebody else. Because right now Rick Sund and Billy King are hardly the types of GM's that would get me excited.

Midcoasted
04-07-2008, 01:34 AM
snippet from ny daily news (mitch lawrence)

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2008/04/05/2008-04-05_jerry_colangelo_would_have_been_better_f.html?p age=1



not sure how i feel about this given that we've just gotten out of the two headed monster scenario (which everyone agreed was bad).

who has been handling the pacers' day to day operations the past few years anyway? it seems unlikely to have been walsh (health), nor bird (disinclined). was it morway? we knew he was involved in trades at least. if bird brings in a new gm, does it mean morway is on his way out?

i think we're all a bit tired of the incomprehensible hierarchy that seems to be the pacers organization. on the other hand, if this is part of bird's move to clean house and put in place a leaner, meaner structure, then i'm all for it.


Im sure they have some assitants doing most of their dirty work like most prominent GM/CEOs/Owners do. When ur that rich u have people do all kinds of things.

I think Bird is just cleaning house. Why would he want to get rid of Morway? Maybe he wants some1 that he feels will not conflict in interests. Maybe if they promoted Morway they could have conflicting ideas?

Who knows time will tell. Larry as our coach took us to our first championship. Maybe now he moved his way to the top he can mold us for championship sucess. I mean who knows more about winning them then Larry Legend? An elite few.

I hear all the hate and those who want him gone, but lets at least give him a chance. I mean he was our main scout, the player moves we have made seem to be working in some sense, just Tinsley and JO have been unmovable so we still suck. If we could get fair market calue for both then we could be a contender just that fast.

rexnom
04-07-2008, 04:06 AM
If all Bird wants to do is make decisions, then it sounds like what he really wants to be is an owner. Which makes sense I guess, considering he tried to buy the Bobcats before he joined the Pacers. But if he has no real interest in the day-to-day operations of a franchise, then he just needs to leave. He's nothing more than a figurehead if he's doing nothing but saying "yes" or "no" to things.

And if he does leave/get fired, I would rather have Morway take over. He's been here, he knows how things work. Let's promote him and see how he does, sink-or-swim. If he sinks, then fire him and bring in somebody else. Because right now Rick Sund and Billy King are hardly the types of GM's that would get me excited.
I don't necessarily dislike Bird as GM. I fairly firmly entrenched in the "give him a solo chance" camp but isn't Morway more the type of guy that seems likely to have the patience to head up a rebuilding campaign? I am fairly sure we'll lose him to Donnie in NY but why not offer him the GM spot and fire Bird rather than lose him altogether?

Will Galen
04-07-2008, 06:18 AM
Who knows time will tell. Larry as our coach took us to our first EASTERN CONFRENCE championship. Maybe now he moved his way to the top he can mold us for championship sucess. I mean who knows more about winning them then Larry Legend? An elite few.


Fixed

Ownagedood
04-07-2008, 07:10 AM
Not gonna happen. Walsh isn't here because we wanted one voice.

Speed
04-07-2008, 07:55 AM
This makes no sense, does he want an assistant to do the things that he's supposed to be doing. I don't get it. This is so confusing I wonder if the report is just wrong.

He wants to be a GM, which means to Bird doing the none of the things that a GM does? First order of business should be to make things clearer not more muddled. I fear this isn't going to go well, if this is true.

I'll resevere the chicken little act for now, I guess.

Unclebuck
04-07-2008, 08:33 AM
So Bird is trying to be like Michael Jordan - an absentee GM

Will Galen
04-07-2008, 08:49 AM
So Bird is trying to be like Michael Jordan - an absentee GM

This seems like a smart move by Bird to me. He tells people what he thinks and that doesn't go over very well face to face.

Putnam
04-07-2008, 09:31 AM
This makes no sense, does he want an assistant to do the things that he's supposed to be doing. I don't get it. This is so confusing I wonder if the report is just wrong.

He wants to be a GM, which means to Bird doing the none of the things that a GM does? First order of business should be to make things clearer not more muddled. I fear this isn't going to go well, if this is true.


If this article is correct, Bird is starting to surround himself with people who can do the things he isn't good at or doesn't like doing. That's wise. And there really isn't a very specific list of "things he's supposed to do." Bird is supposed to see to it that the team is competitive, profitable and entertaining. He is ultimately responsible for all of that. But there's no rule that he has to cook the popcorn or run the scoreboard himself. Nor handle the trades and drafts personally, either.

If he gets a new guy and calls him the GM, it doesn't mean the new guy will do the same things Walsh did or that Bird's relationship with the new guy will be the same as his (confused) relationship with Walsh.



This may be a very good initial step. Keep hope alive.

Unclebuck
04-07-2008, 09:34 AM
What I really worry about - if the info is true that Bird rarely comes to practice and rarely communicates with anyone ---- that makes it difficult to do the job is is supposed to be doing.

avoidingtheclowns
04-07-2008, 09:58 AM
This seems like a smart move by Bird to me. He tells people what he thinks and that doesn't go over very well face to face.


If this article is correct, Bird is starting to surround himself with people who can do the things he isn't good at or doesn't like doing. That's wise.

that is kinda what i was thinking. it certainly worked for him as a coach: let guys that know how to coach (rick & dick) handle the Xs and Os coaching and have bird be "the decider."

and i agree with rexnom that it would seem like morway would be that type of guy since some GMs seem to be calling him first anyway.

Elgin56
04-07-2008, 09:59 AM
Hearsay from a rival Gm doesn't make it the truth.

McKeyFan
04-07-2008, 10:00 AM
What I really worry about - if the info is true that Bird rarely comes to practice and rarely communicates with anyone ---- that makes it difficult to do the job is is supposed to be doing.

Been a lot of murmurings over the years that schmooze is not his strong point. All the players loved Walsh. Several, JO particularly, aren't fond of Bird.

Well, now that Bird has total unencumbered power, we'll see how well his style works.

In my opinion, we were hurt sorely if Bird tried to get rid of JO two or three years ago and was stopped by Donnie.

QuickRelease
04-07-2008, 10:16 AM
If all Bird wants to do is make decisions, then it sounds like what he really wants to be is an owner. Which makes sense I guess, considering he tried to buy the Bobcats before he joined the Pacers. But if he has no real interest in the day-to-day operations of a franchise, then he just needs to leave. He's nothing more than a figurehead if he's doing nothing but saying "yes" or "no" to things.

And if he does leave/get fired, I would rather have Morway take over. He's been here, he knows how things work. Let's promote him and see how he does, sink-or-swim. If he sinks, then fire him and bring in somebody else. Because right now Rick Sund and Billy King are hardly the types of GM's that would get me excited.

I agree with this/ah

OakMoses
04-07-2008, 10:19 AM
I'd like to think that Putnam and the others who see this as positive are onto something. As long as the buck stops with Bird and he takes full responsibility for everything that goes on during his reign, having a few more voices can only help. However, you can certainly put me in the camp that doesn't quite understand why you'd hire a GM who wasn't any good elsewhere (like King or Sund or even Kiki). Bring in someone young and fresh and full of energy and ideas. Whoever we bring in should be someone who complements Bird rather than another member of the good-old-boys club.

What I don't understand is this article. It seems to take potshots at Bird for no apparent reason. It also uses a rather juvenile tone, kind of like a 7th grade girl who says, "Like, Bird only comes to practice, like, once a week, ya know?"

QuickRelease
04-07-2008, 10:20 AM
Im sure they have some assitants doing most of their dirty work like most prominent GM/CEOs/Owners do. When ur that rich u have people do all kinds of things.

I think Bird is just cleaning house. Why would he want to get rid of Morway? Maybe he wants some1 that he feels will not conflict in interests. Maybe if they promoted Morway they could have conflicting ideas?

Who knows time will tell. Larry as our coach took us to our first championship. Maybe now he moved his way to the top he can mold us for championship sucess. I mean who knows more about winning them then Larry Legend? An elite few.

I hear all the hate and those who want him gone, but lets at least give him a chance. I mean he was our main scout, the player moves we have made seem to be working in some sense, just Tinsley and JO have been unmovable so we still suck. If we could get fair market calue for both then we could be a contender just that fast.

Keep in mind that Larry inherited an extremely cohesive veteran team with incredible chemistry. All he really needed to do with them is stay out of the way, and not mess anything up. Plus the fact, that team had a 'coach' on the floor in Jiggles Jackson.

QuickRelease
04-07-2008, 10:30 AM
This makes no sense, does he want an assistant to do the things that he's supposed to be doing. I don't get it. This is so confusing I wonder if the report is just wrong.

He wants to be a GM, which means to Bird doing the none of the things that a GM does? First order of business should be to make things clearer not more muddled. I fear this isn't going to go well, if this is true.

I'll resevere the chicken little act for now, I guess.

I'm not certain, but it seems that most teams have a seperate Team President and GM. I don't think this will be that much of a disaster. It's just that he probably doesn't want to do both jobs. I don't have a problem with that. Morway would probably be a good choice, but I agree that he'll probably wind up following Donnie to New York.

Speed
04-07-2008, 10:30 AM
If this article is correct, Bird is starting to surround himself with people who can do the things he isn't good at or doesn't like doing. That's wise. And there really isn't a very specific list of "things he's supposed to do." Bird is supposed to see to it that the team is competitive, profitable and entertaining. He is ultimately responsible for all of that. But there's no rule that he has to cook the popcorn or run the scoreboard himself. Nor handle the trades and drafts personally, either.

If he gets a new guy and calls him the GM, it doesn't mean the new guy will do the same things Walsh did or that Bird's relationship with the new guy will be the same as his (confused) relationship with Walsh.



This may be a very good initial step. Keep hope alive.

Thanks Putnam, I see your point.

I suppose it is okay if Bird wants to be the decider and the other guy or guys are a buffer between him and the rest of the league, and the players, and the coaches. I mean I guess he doesn't have to be hands on.

I'll reserve going off the deep end.

It just seems foreign to me because I always see a GM or main guy as someone who does those things. It doesn't mean it has to work that way. I wonder how the other GMs do it. Is there someone sucessful out there who has followed a similar pattern.

Lastly, if Bird is impatient and a No BS guy, maybe it is a good thing.


It troubled me that when Walsh "retired" they basically asked Bird about his style on the phone talking trades and it was abrupt and to the point, which to me is way counter to what you want to do. You want to open dialog and maybe finesse the conversation into other options if the initial trade discussion sucks. I don't think Bird gets that. I think its pretty much Bird saying NO and then hanging up. I think Bird thinks you come off like a sales type person if you don't keep it real, but its not like that really.

Anyway, I hope this is a good thing and not him, not wanting to do the job as I've seen it in the past. We'll see.

Kaufman
04-07-2008, 10:41 AM
This really bothers me, for one, if this is true that he is looking for a GM and this and that.

I agree that one should surround themselves with talent and people to do certain jobs. But then what is Larry here for? Is he just a figurehead who is running this place based on his legendary playing career?

As a coach, the team did well, but then one CAN ask themselves, was Larry REALLY the coach, or was he just a figurehead? It seemed that Rick and Dick ran the squad and Larry just oversaw things.

So if Larry is going to do the same thing now, what is the point? Someone mentioned that it seems that Larry wants to act like the owner. Well we already have owners, so why do we need to pay Larry to act like an owner?

This is all very confusing to me. I'd rather have Donnie here doing the job he was doing.

There was a reason that Red Auerbach didn't want to keep Larry around the Celtics.... I remember seeing him with titles such as "executive scout" and similar other things, but why didn't they want him in their front office? Had to be related to what we have seen from him the last few years.

They went through ML Carr, Danny Ainge and others but never gave Larry, arguably one of the most famous of them all, the keys to the car.

It all starts to add up.

count55
04-07-2008, 10:46 AM
As a coach, the team did well, but then one CAN ask themselves, was Larry REALLY the coach, or was he just a figurehead? It seemed that Rick and Dick ran the squad and Larry just oversaw things.


I actually believe by the third year, Larry was pretty much running things himself, relying less and less on the assistants, but...

I'm for any approach that would make his GM tenure become as successful as his coaching tenure.

Oneal07
04-07-2008, 10:48 AM
Whatever gets the job done lol

Rajah Brown
04-07-2008, 10:59 AM
So if you were the GM of another NBA team would you want to
call and schmooze over a trade possibility with the Pacers when
the guy you're spending time talking to isn't the ultimate decision
maker ?

I wouldn't. I might do it on a rare occasion if the Pacers GM had
initiated the discussion and the deal seemed potentially attractive
for my team. But I sure wouldn't proactively call the guy.

Part of Bird's job is schmoozing with other NBA GM's. He needs to
do it wether he likes or enjoys it or not.

Naptown_Seth
04-07-2008, 12:02 PM
What I really worry about - if the info is true that Bird rarely comes to practice and rarely communicates with anyone ---- that makes it difficult to do the job is is supposed to be doing.
This is why I find this story really disturbing. We've debated back and forth on this blame game, and my side of it has constantly pounded on this "hands off" issue. The return argument is that it's not true, that it was just too many chefs.

But let's revisit the issue in this new context. JO was frustrated that Bird was nowhere to be found (in Europe) when Ron asked for the trade, and apparently stayed there. That got us a frustrated JO AND Saras.

Bird IMO passed the buck to Rick on discipline last year, and my point has always been that he could have injected his voice at any time if he thought things were out of control. Whether or not that would include a mid-season firing of Rick would depend on how he responded to Bird's own demands of discipline. Of course those issues continued after Rick left, proving that it was far deeper than that.

We also have Bird doing the JOB interview(s) over the freaking phone. This story sure seems to back that approach.


So when I've ranted about Bird in the sense of the tone of the team, this is exactly what I'm talking about. He does not come across as proactive and the people under him/playing for him certainly would see this. Having a boss with little interest in your day to day needs, working conditions, productive output, and general happiness sets a tone that says "why should I care if they don't."

So perhaps when players have little involvement with the team and feel less pressure to be accountable it's stemming from a tone set at the top and trickling down. I mean this team does have attitude issues and if ever a team needed some hard core hands-on leadership, this is it. If the knock on the Simons is that they've been hands-off then shouldn't that knock be double for Bird as GM?


On in Rexnom's better words - "What does Bird actually do? Jesus."

dohman
04-07-2008, 12:32 PM
IMO a GM shouldn't be the guy that answers the phones, talks to scouts, and all the other junk that is listed here. That is not what a GM in any business does. They have GOOD people that do that stuff for them.

Look at how larry bird coached. HE DIDN'T! He made his voice heard and relied on his assistants to do everything and he had final say. This should be the same way he is the GM.

Like said before, Bird can come off as a *** and if he was in pratice everyday tryign to tell JOB how to do his job or the players then that would just come off the wrong way. Same with the everyone in the organization.

You hire good people. You let them do there job, if they are not doing their job to your expectations, then you let them know. If they continue to have poor performance you simply find someone that can do their job.

Will Galen
04-07-2008, 01:06 PM
Or in Rexnom's better words - "What does Bird actually do? Jesus."

We don't know what's really going on in the Pacers front office so why get bent out of shape even a little bit by what someone writes?

The only way we can really judge if someone is doing a good job is by the results on the basketball floor.

Myself I've given management the benefit of the doubt as to recent character issues of some of the members of the team. That's not something that extends into the future though.

Right now we have a change in leadership at the top. Myself I would rather have continued with Walsh, because I don't think Bird has the temperament needed for the job. However he seems to know that too and is taking steps to rectify it, so I'll wait and see how it goes.

indygeezer
04-07-2008, 01:23 PM
We don't know what's really going on in the Pacers front office so why get bent out of shape even a little bit by what someone writes?

The only way we can really judge if someone is doing a good job is by the results on the basketball floor.

Myself I've given management the benefit of the doubt as to recent character issues of some of the members of the team. That's not something that extends into the future though.

Right now we have a change in leadership at the top. Myself I would rather have continued with Walsh, because I don't think Bird has the temperament needed for the job. However he seems to know that too and is taking steps to rectify it, so I'll wait and see how it goes.


I hate to do this but, I agree with you completely.

CableKC
04-07-2008, 01:32 PM
If this article is correct, Bird is starting to surround himself with people who can do the things he isn't good at or doesn't like doing. That's wise. And there really isn't a very specific list of "things he's supposed to do." Bird is supposed to see to it that the team is competitive, profitable and entertaining. He is ultimately responsible for all of that. But there's no rule that he has to cook the popcorn or run the scoreboard himself. Nor handle the trades and drafts personally, either.

If he gets a new guy and calls him the GM, it doesn't mean the new guy will do the same things Walsh did or that Bird's relationship with the new guy will be the same as his (confused) relationship with Walsh.

This may be a very good initial step. Keep hope alive.
This was one of the first things I thought of too. Bird doesn't appear to be a very good "people" person when it comes to managing personalities. He obviously has some issues with JONeal....if this is a symptom of how his relationship maybe with other players....maybe it is a good thing that he isn't the "Operations Upper Management Guy" that everyone ( from Coaching Staff to Player personnel ) has to deal with.

If this is the case, then the only thing I hope is that Bird doesn't develop into this figurehead sitting in his "ivory tower" that only comes down when the "bleep is hitting the fan". My hope is that he would clearly convey whatever vision that he has of the Organization to the people that will be dealing with the "common folk" directly.

Kegboy
04-07-2008, 01:37 PM
http://www.nba.com/media/pacers/david_morway.jpg

Will Galen
04-07-2008, 01:37 PM
I hate to do this but, I agree with you completely.

Oh my! Wheres my fan I feel faint!

Just kidding, really I agree with you a lot.

Alpolloloco
04-07-2008, 02:26 PM
Bird is just like a CEO in the business world. Those guys won't directly handle with floor personell either, it's the middle management who takes care of that.

So I don't feel like this is strange at all, especially because Bird idn't a real motivator kind of manager.

idioteque
04-07-2008, 02:51 PM
This whole thing seems silly to me. I understand that GM's (or Presidents) delegate lesser work to underlings. But if Larry isn't willing to undertake the standard workload of a GM, he needs to just get him and his lazy beer gut back to French Lick.

If he wants to be a part of the team for PR reasons to win back old fans, then just give him 5% ownership or something. This is stupid.

Justin Tyme
04-07-2008, 04:11 PM
if they are not doing their job to your expectations, then you let them know. If they continue to have poor performance you simply find someone that can do their job.

Please send this to the Simons in regards to Bird! I'll say it again, there are 16 million reasons why Bird is still here, and the Simons seem to be willing for 16 million reasons to let things continue as they are for the next 2 years with hopes it won't get any worse than it is now.

My 1st thought is that Bird is just copying what Walsh is going to do with the Knicks, hire a GM. My thought is why be a puppet GM with no decision making ability? GM stands for general manager which means they are suppose to manage by making decisions. Bird wants to act more like an owner than a GM/President/CEO or whatever the title is.

I truly feel Bird thought he'd be gone after this season. He looked on tv the part of someone going through a bad divorce knowing he was about to lose everything.

duke dynamite
04-07-2008, 08:08 PM
Like I said before, I really won't pay attention to something like this unless it comes from the local media. Not NY.

Roaming Gnome
04-07-2008, 09:48 PM
This is damn scary to me!

Besides playing, has Larry ever done anything himself?

If this is true...Larry truely is nothing more then Boomer for the adults.

Hicks
04-07-2008, 09:57 PM
Actually, I figure this should relieve most people. After all, Larry's an idiot, right? Why not let him play "thumbs up, thumbs down" while someone who knows what they're doing works the trades.

Roaming Gnome
04-07-2008, 10:18 PM
Actually, I figure this should relieve most people. After all, Larry's an idiot, right? Why not let him play "thumbs up, thumbs down" while someone who knows what they're doing works the trades.

No, Larry is not an idiot. I just think Larry should be one of those guys that contributes... You know.... a front office position that great retired players go to when they don't do TV. I'm not saying those Front office positions don't eventually turn into GM positions (I'm not exactly positive, but didn't Joe Dumars just accept a front office position in Detroit?), but anyway I'm really having my doubts about Larry being more then a figurehead president.

I guess the reason I'm so offended is because....weren't the last few years with the two headed monster setting Larry up to be able to run the day to day opperations of the franchise? If so, why does Larry need someone to do all the leg work?

Kaufman
04-07-2008, 11:16 PM
If larry does install all these new people in the front office - is it a guarantee that JOB will be here next year?

Hicks
04-07-2008, 11:32 PM
No, Larry is not an idiot. I just think Larry should be one of those guys that contributes... You know.... a front office position that great retired players go to when they don't do TV. I'm not saying those Front office positions don't eventually turn into GM positions (I'm not exactly positive, but didn't Joe Dumars just accept a front office position in Detroit?), but anyway I'm really having my doubts about Larry being more then a figurehead president.

I guess the reason I'm so offended is because....weren't the last few years with the two headed monster setting Larry up to be able to run the day to day opperations of the franchise? If so, why does Larry need someone to do all the leg work?

While I don't carry much confidence in him, I don't think Larry's an idiot either, but I said it because I sense that's what a lot of people basically think. Shouldn't they be happier?

Putnam
04-08-2008, 08:16 AM
It's time to withhold judgment here. The Bird era is literally two weeks old.

There are many ways to succeed. Go read some books about administrations that have succeeded, from the Roosevelt presidency to the way Red Auerbach ran the Celtics.

Roosevelt deliberately set conflicting policies into action, knowing that both could not succeed but confident that one or the other would. Lincoln appointed his worst political enemies to his cabinet, because he knew their worth and because he'd rather have their criticisms spoken to his face than in the newspapers.

There is just no single right way of running an organization. And there's certainly no connection between a top executive's focus on detail and and success of his organization. Mark Cuban, Jerry Jones and the like are amusing, but they are no more successful than others. The most detail-oriented president we've had was Carter (He personally kept the sign-up schedule for the White Hosue tennis courts), and he was a bust. Reagan didn't know what was going on much of the time, and he was a bust, too.

In short, success always looks the same, but there isn't one single way of succeeding.

count55
04-08-2008, 09:27 AM
It's time to withhold judgment here. The Bird era is literally two weeks old.

There are many ways to succeed. Go read some books about administrations that have succeeded, from the Roosevelt presidency to the way Red Auerbach ran the Celtics.

Roosevelt deliberately set conflicting policies into action, knowing that both could not succeed but confident that one or the other would. Lincoln appointed his worst political enemies to his cabinet, because he knew their worth and because he'd rather have their criticisms spoken to his face than in the newspapers.

There is just no single right way of running an organization. And there's certainly no connection between a top executive's focus on detail and and success of his organization. Mark Cuban, Jerry Jones and the like are amusing, but they are no more successful than others. The most detail-oriented president we've had was Carter (He personally kept the sign-up schedule for the White Hosue tennis courts), and he was a bust. Reagan didn't know what was going on much of the time, and he was a bust, too.

In short, success always looks the same, but there isn't one single way of succeeding.

Man, you are rocking the 10-word answers today.

OakMoses
04-08-2008, 10:24 AM
This is a paragraph from Chris Broussard of ESPN's blog. It sure makes it sound like Donnie plans on hiring a GM in New York. What makes Larry doing it here any different?

"While we don't have the final word yet on the future of Thomas and his VP of basketball operations, Glen Grunwald, it appears that Walsh will probably be looking to add a general manager and a new coach to his staff. That being the case, here are some the names Walsh should consider for the GM and coach positions."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3325939&name=broussard_chris

madison
04-08-2008, 05:09 PM
This makes no sense at all. Either Larry's running things or he isn't. My preference is to buy him out and hire someone who knows talent. Clearly, it wasn't the combination of Don Larry, Indy's version of the Barnum & Bailey circus. We've got one of the weakest rosters in the NBA, especially when you factor in payroll. Ugh! Is there no end to the madness?

duke dynamite
04-08-2008, 06:22 PM
This makes no sense at all. Either Larry's running things or he isn't. My preference is to buy him out and hire someone who knows talent. Clearly, it wasn't the combination of Don Larry, Indy's version of the Barnum & Bailey circus. We've got one of the weakest rosters in the NBA, especially when you factor in payroll. Ugh! Is there no end to the madness?
Who would you hire? How would you do it? Everything you say is easier than what could be done.

Naptown_Seth
04-08-2008, 06:31 PM
We don't know what's really going on in the Pacers front office so why get bent out of shape even a little bit by what someone writes?

The only way we can really judge if someone is doing a good job is by the results on the basketball floor.

Myself I've given management the benefit of the doubt as to recent character issues of some of the members of the team. That's not something that extends into the future though.

Right now we have a change in leadership at the top. Myself I would rather have continued with Walsh, because I don't think Bird has the temperament needed for the job. However he seems to know that too and is taking steps to rectify it, so I'll wait and see how it goes.
Here's why. This didn't just start. By their own admission there have been too many chefs. And it's fairly well known that Bird has had something of an absentee approach.

Now how are you supposed to make the right decisions if you don't even see these guys? How are you going to make the best deal if you don't do the negotiating? Again, just what is he doing, waiting for someone else to do all the work and then tell him what his decision should be?

So instead of Boomer for adults he's a rubber stamp?


And then you say "wait and see". What have we been doing the last few years. The Pacers already said that THIS YEAR was all Bird, so we've already started to see.

I'm in a car, it's headed for a cliff and the brakes are out. You're right, someone might turn the wheel and save the day at the last second, but I have no shame in screaming like a girl until that happens. The beginning of things hasn't been all that promising.


The Bird era is literally two weeks old.
Not according to the Pacers, or were they lying last summer? According to Walsh it was Bird who made the call on Isiah for Rick, and that worked out really well. I'll give him full credit on that, but then it means that he also takes some lumps for things since then.

Let's stop acting like it was all Donnie the last few years. Even if it was both it means that Bird's stamp is already partially on this team.

Naptown_Seth
04-08-2008, 06:37 PM
While I don't carry much confidence in him, I don't think Larry's an idiot either, but I said it because I sense that's what a lot of people basically think. Shouldn't they be happier?
Yes, but my point is more along the lines of why pay for a rubber stamp at all?

I mean Riley is taking time off of coaching to go watch prospects. So at least some GM's like to get their hands dirty.

Walsh discussed the Knicks situation in terms of being unfamiliar and needing assistance getting his hands around all the issues, especially since he needs to be ready to make decisions pretty soon.

Does anyone think that Walsh isn't the guy that that GM hands the phone too when things heat up, rather than just handing him a Yes/No checkbox? I think that is the perceived difference.

I think my other issue here is that shouldn't Bird have been in that role the last few years then? And having learned it he would progress up the ladder. Instead it sorta sounds like he's skimmed the edges of it the entire time and doesn't really have interest in it.


As was mentioned, it sounds like to me Bird really wants to be an owner instead. I'm actually fine with that.

duke dynamite
04-08-2008, 06:38 PM
You know, at this point I am content with calling it a group effort. Unless someone comes out and just tells us who did what, I am stuck on that.

So in essence, Bird is as responsible for decisons as Donnie was.

That supports Naptown's belief, but I am a supporter of the "wait and see" what Larry can do totally on his own.

ABADays
04-08-2008, 07:32 PM
This was one of the first things I thought of too. Bird doesn't appear to be a very good "people" person when it comes to managing personalities. He obviously has some issues with JONeal....if this is a symptom of how his relationship maybe with other players....maybe it is a good thing that he isn't the "Operations Upper Management Guy" that everyone ( from Coaching Staff to Player personnel ) has to deal with.

If this is the case, then the only thing I hope is that Bird doesn't develop into this figurehead sitting in his "ivory tower" that only comes down when the "bleep is hitting the fan". My hope is that he would clearly convey whatever vision that he has of the Organization to the people that will be dealing with the "common folk" directly.

I would have an issue with JO as well. The "leadership" tag was given to him for no reason and at no time do I ever think it seized it.

I don't know how he could be any more specific about his vision unless the added his credo to the plethora of tattoos. If there is a fault, he might have been too subtle when he needed to get right in some of their faces.

Kegboy
04-08-2008, 09:17 PM
I'm in a car, it's headed for a cliff and the brakes are out. You're right, someone might turn the wheel and save the day at the last second, but I have no shame in screaming like a girl until that happens.

I'm just concerned Larry is Toonces.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Toonces-Cat-who-could-drive-a-car-from-Saturday-Night-Live