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Shade
04-06-2008, 04:36 PM
What the contracts of the other SFs in the NBA look like right now?

I like Danny, and want him to remain a Pacer, but I'm really not sure about throwing down $10 mil/year on a small forward, the easiest position to fill in the NBA.

Kstat
04-06-2008, 04:44 PM
Tayshaun makes about $9 million per.

Pierce averages around $18 million.

Josh Howard averages around $10 million.

TMac averages around $19 million.

Gerald Wallace averages around $9 million.

Odom gets $13 million.

Marion gets $16 million.

Peja averages $13 million.

Hedo is on the cheap for $7 million.

AK47 averages around $15 million.

Butler is the biggest bargain for around $9 million.

rexnom
04-06-2008, 04:46 PM
I hope we can get him for 10 but IMO that's optimistic.

Shade
04-06-2008, 04:49 PM
Thanks, Kstat.

Wow, I didn't realize some of those contracts are so huge. :eek:

rexnom
04-06-2008, 04:53 PM
And let's not forget the disastrous Rashard Lewis $20mil/year contract...

Kstat
04-06-2008, 04:53 PM
And let's not forget the disastrous Rashard Lewis $20mil/year contract...

well, they signed him to play power forward. it's a technicality.

Kofi
04-06-2008, 05:17 PM
Overpaid.

Tayshaun Prince - $10M (overpaid)

Peja Stojakovic -$13M (overpaid)

Paul Pierce - $18M (overpaid)

Andrei Kirilenko - $16M (overpaid)

Darius Miles - $9M (overpaid)

Ron Artest - $7.4M (underpaid, if he were sane)

Boris Diaw - $9M (overpaid)

Rashard Lewis - $18M (overpaid)

Richard Jefferson - $13.5M (overpaid)

Shawn Marion - $16M (overpaid)

Mike Miller - $9M (about right)

Lamar Odom - $13.5M (overpaid)

Corey Maggette - $7M (underpaid)

Tracy McGrady - $20M (overpaid)

Al Harrington - $9M (about right)

Carmelo Anthony - $16M (overpaid)

Josh Howard - $11M (about right)

Gerald Wallace - $9.5M (underpaid)

Caron Butler - $9.5 (underpaid)


If you can sign him up to a contract that averages around $10M per, it's a good deal. Anyone talking about $8M a year is living in the land of make believe.

Kstat
04-06-2008, 05:22 PM
do you really have to troll every single thread?

Pierce is obviously not a "career loser."

Lamar isn't a "dope head," to my knowledge.

Caron is a bonafide all star.

Carmelo is a woman now? Most women I know can't drop 26 a game.

Kofi
04-06-2008, 05:24 PM
do you really have to troll every single thread?

Actually, the only trolling here is the above quoted post.

The man asked a question, and I answered it.

Kstat
04-06-2008, 05:26 PM
Actually, the only trolling here is the above quoted post.

The man asked a question, and I answered it.

You answered it with some silly backhanded comments that just simply aren't true.

King Tuts Tomb
04-06-2008, 06:24 PM
Odom was suspended a couple games for smoking pot SEVEN YEARS AGO. I don't think that gives you cause to call him a "dope head." Let's hope you never make a mistake in your life.

And Mike Miller is paid fairly at 9 mil but 10 is too much for an elite defender like Prince? And Peja is soft now?

Do you watch basketball?

Kstat
04-06-2008, 06:33 PM
BTW, the Tayshaun thing doesn't bother me as much as the rest. He indeed can't create his own shot (except in the post), and his underwhelming stats suggest that he is indeed overpaid.

I can certainly understand why someone who doesn't actually watch pistons games would think he's overpaid.

That said, I don't think so. He's our Derrick McKey. Those kinds of glue guys are invaluable to a winning organization.

Kofi
04-06-2008, 06:41 PM
Odom was suspended a couple games for smoking pot SEVEN YEARS AGO. I don't think that gives you cause to call him a "dope head." Let's hope you never make a mistake in your life.

And Mike Miller is paid fairly at 9 mil but 10 is too much for an elite defender like Prince? And Peja is soft now?

Do you watch basketball?

I would question whether or not Prince is an elite defender. 82games.com measures defensive ability based on the opposing players production, and they have Prince as a fairly average defender. So it's reputation vs reality - I'll always go with reality.

With that said, Miller makes around $1M less per season, and is considerably better in every faucet of the game outside of defense, hence why I feel he's underpaid while Prince is overpaid.

Peja is soft now? Honestly, when hasn't he been soft? He choked with the Kings (mentally soft) and he sat out playoff games with us when he was more than capable of playing (physically soft). Seems like he fits the definition of soft to me.

Odom was busted for pot twice in less than a year. Is he still doing it? Don't know, and as long as he's not a Pacer, I don't care. That's his business.

Anyways, it seems my added comments were getting more discussion than the topic at hand, so I went ahead and deleted them. :)

jmoney2584
04-06-2008, 06:46 PM
That said, I don't think so. He's our Derrick McKey. Those kinds of glue guys are invaluable to a winning organization.

Solid comparison.

King Tuts Tomb
04-06-2008, 08:31 PM
I would question whether or not Prince is an elite defender. 82games.com measures defensive ability based on the opposing players production, and they have Prince as a fairly average defender. So it's reputation vs reality - I'll always go with reality.

With that said, Miller makes around $1M less per season, and is considerably better in every faucet of the game outside of defense, hence why I feel he's underpaid while Prince is overpaid.

Peja is soft now? Honestly, when hasn't he been soft? He choked with the Kings (mentally soft) and he sat out playoff games with us when he was more than capable of playing (physically soft). Seems like he fits the definition of soft to me.

Odom was busted for pot twice in less than a year. Is he still doing it? Don't know, and as long as he's not a Pacer, I don't care. That's his business.

Anyways, it seems my added comments were getting more discussion than the topic at hand, so I went ahead and deleted them. :)

Sorry, I'll always take a super solid defender and great teammate in Prince over a jump-shooter any day. Miller is a gunner who's never been out of the first round of the playoffs, Prince was a key component on a championship team.

Peja air balled a three pointer in the playoffs to lose a game, as has Kobe Bryant and countless other players. If he makes five game winners in this years playoffs does that make him not soft?

He almost single-handedly carried a beat up Kings team in 2003 and nearly won MVP. That's not soft. He's also become a very solid defensive player, even if everyone refuses to acknowledge it. Is he overpaid by a million or two per year? Sure, but most players are.

Seems like you fit the definition of someone who doesn't watch basketball to me.

Los Angeles
04-06-2008, 09:04 PM
Methinks the edit button has gotten some action here ....

rexnom
04-06-2008, 09:14 PM
Sorry, I'll always take a super solid defender and great teammate in Prince over a jump-shooter any day. Miller is a gunner who's never been out of the first round of the playoffs, Prince was a key component on a championship team.

Peja air balled a three pointer in the playoffs to lose a game, as has Kobe Bryant and countless other players. If he makes five game winners in this years playoffs does that make him not soft?

He almost single-handedly carried a beat up Kings team in 2003 and nearly won MVP. That's not soft. He's also become a very solid defensive player, even if everyone refuses to acknowledge it. Is he overpaid by a million or two per year? Sure, but most players are.

Seems like you fit the definition of someone who doesn't watch basketball to me.
He sat out four playoff games to get paid in 2006 and as a result we lost to a very beatable Nets team. He's soft.

Kstat
04-06-2008, 09:19 PM
He sat out four playoff games to get paid in 2006 and as a result we lost to a very beatable Nets team. He's soft.

Wade is sitting out an entire season in 2008 because he doesn't like losing games. Is he also soft?

JayRedd
04-06-2008, 09:22 PM
He sat out four playoff games to get paid in 2006 and as a result we lost to a very beatable Nets team. He's soft.

I'm not saying he is or isn't soft, but, IMO, that was a financial decision by a guy about to be a free agent more than anything else.

Seemed to work out pretty well for him.

rexnom
04-06-2008, 09:29 PM
Wade is sitting out an entire season in 2008 because he doesn't like losing games. Is he also soft?
Are those situations comparable? We're talking about Wade on the worst team in the regular season versus a team that had a legitimate chance to win that series.

Kstat, I thought after the superhuman effort Grant Hill put in the 2000 playoffs (which almost destroyed his career), you'd be with me on this.

And JayRedd, obviously it was a good financial decision, but man, after all the accusations we have of the injury prone players on our team, at least guys like JO and JT show up for playoff games.

Major Cold
04-06-2008, 09:31 PM
Kofi I like stats as much as the next person. But if stats are the only basis for arguments then understand you are losing your creditability. I believe you are a knowledgeable poster who speaking from the hip at times. Then you find stats to cover what your hip is connected to.

WATCH BASKETBALL IT IS GREAT.

JayRedd
04-06-2008, 09:32 PM
And JayRedd, obviously it was a good financial decision, but man, after all the accusations we have of the injury prone players on our team, at least guys like JO and JT show up for playoff games.

I hear ya. And I'm not defending it.

It's just pretty easy to see why a guy with no allegiance to a franchise he'd played with for like 2 1/2 months and didn't want to play for in the future didn't give a *****.

No...it's not "professional."

But it doesn't mean he's soft. I just means he didn't give a *****.

There's a difference.

Kstat
04-06-2008, 09:34 PM
Kstat, I thought after the superhuman effort Grant Hill put in the 2000 playoffs (which almost destroyed his career), you'd be with me on this.


...that's supposed to make me support players playing injured when they shouldn't be?

King Tuts Tomb
04-06-2008, 09:42 PM
He sat out four playoff games to get paid in 2006 and as a result we lost to a very beatable Nets team. He's soft.

So he was tough in the first and third games but soft in games 2, 4, 5 and 6? His wussy-ness was only intermittent?

CableKC
04-06-2008, 10:11 PM
I'm guessing that Granger will garner a 10-11 mil contract when he comes up for renewal.

BTW...what season is he a eligible to be a FA?

It shows that he has a qualifying Offer for $3.289684 mil in the 2009-2010 season. I'm often confused by how that works. Does that mean that the start of the 2009-2010 is when we can extend him?

Assuming that he takes a 10-11 mil contract offer...when does that kick in?

Kofi
04-06-2008, 11:00 PM
Kofi I like stats as much as the next person. But if stats are the only basis for arguments then understand you are losing your creditability. I believe you are a knowledgeable poster who speaking from the hip at times. Then you find stats to cover what your hip is connected to.

WATCH BASKETBALL IT IS GREAT.

Not at all. I link to stats and such, but that's because I try and post facts and logical reasoning for every claim I make. What's wrong with that? Personally, I wish more people would do it.

And yes I believe in stats because they're measured production, and production is what it all boils down to. Individual defense is the only part of an NBA game that's really hard to gage by stats, and even that's being corrected by advanced stats. Stats that will measure the production of everyone a certain player has guarded on the season. It's not fool-proof, but I'd take it over reputation.

Watch basketball? That's a worn out excuse I've heard so many times. Yes, I watch plenty of basketball. But at the same time, I don't believe in going entirely by what I see, for two very crucial reasons....

1) With how streaky most players are, you'd have to watch a sizable (at least 1/4, imo) of their time on the court to get a a significant feel for their game, their strengths and weaknesses. Considering there are 1,230 games featuring over 400 players in just the regular season, it's impossible thoroughly follow anymore than a small handful of players outside of your own team. Certain wannabe know-it-alls like to pretend it's not, but I know better.

2) the human mind cannot fully comprehend and keep track of everything it sees. If I watch a game and think someone played well offensively, yet I look at the box score and see that person went 6/16 for 13 points, which should I put more stock in? My own opinion or the facts listed in the box score? I'm going with the boxscore every time. Some people will disagree with this. Those people have overinflated egos.

I'm sorry I try to put some logic and facts behind my opinions and don't just go with the flow like so many others.

Kofi
04-06-2008, 11:02 PM
Wade is sitting out an entire season in 2008 because he doesn't like losing games. Is he also soft?

Wade almost single-handedly lead his team to a title while abusing anyone who tried to defend him. He has a free-pass for at least five years for that lone reason. As for this season, he has/had a legitimate injury. That doesn't make him soft, that makes him human. Is he healthy enough to be playing now? Possibly. But who's to say it was Wade's call to sit-out? I'd wager it was Pat Riley's decision. Pat's not risking a guaranteed top-4 draft pick or the long-term health of his franchise player on a bunch of ultimately meaningless games. He's smarter than that.

Oneal07
04-06-2008, 11:15 PM
Overpaid.

Tayshaun Prince - $10M (overpaid)

Peja Stojakovic -$13M (overpaid)

Paul Pierce - $18M (overpaid)

Andrei Kirilenko - $16M (overpaid)

Darius Miles - $9M (overpaid)

Ron Artest - $7.4M (underpaid, if he were sane)

Boris Diaw - $9M (overpaid)

Rashard Lewis - $18M (overpaid)

Richard Jefferson - $13.5M (overpaid)

Shawn Marion - $16M (overpaid)

Mike Miller - $9M (about right)

Lamar Odom - $13.5M (overpaid)

Corey Maggette - $7M (underpaid)

Tracy McGrady - $20M (overpaid)

Al Harrington - $9M (about right)

Carmelo Anthony - $16M (overpaid)

Josh Howard - $11M (about right)

Gerald Wallace - $9.5M (underpaid)

Caron Butler - $9.5 (underpaid)


If you can sign him up to a contract that averages around $10M per, it's a good deal. Anyone talking about $8M a year is living in the land of make believe.

If you want a player, you will pay what you think he's worth or match any offer, or he will sign else where. Over paid, or under paid, it doesn't matter. If you were offered 11 million to play basketball, I'm sure you'd take it, but if you were offered 15 million to play, I'm sure you'd take that over the 11 million.

Kofi
04-06-2008, 11:30 PM
Sorry, I'll always take a super solid defender0 and great teammate in Prince over a jump-shooter any day. Miller is a gunner who's never been out of the first round of the playoffs, Prince was a key component on a championship team.

Ahh yes, using team success to measure individual talent, the fall-back plan for everyone who has noting else to work with. Prince was the 5th wheel on the Piston's championship team. No different than a Derek Fisher or a Fabricio Oberto. Yes, he played his role well, but it was a role that many middle-of-the-pack SF's could've filled.


Peja air balled a three pointer in the playoffs to lose a game, as has Kobe Bryant and countless other players. If he makes five game winners in this years playoffs does that make him not soft?

When you have to resort to an unrealistic hypothetical situation to defend your claims, chances are you need a new argument.


He almost single-handedly carried a beat up Kings team in 2003 and nearly won MVP. That's not soft. He's also become a very solid defensive player, even if everyone refuses to acknowledge it. Is he overpaid by a million or two per year? Sure, but most players are.

Single-handedly?

He had Mike Bibby, All-Star Brad Miller, Vlade Divac, Doug Christie, Bobby Jackson coming off a 6th Man of the Year season, young stud Gerald Wallace, and Chris Webber for a portion of the season (including the playoffs). Not exactly a bad group of players. They also had good chemistry due to playing together for several years.

And with all that said, they went home in the second round, primary thanks to Peja's horrible play. 41-115 in the series vs Minnesota. That's 35.7%, enough to make Jamaal Tinsley cringe. And this from a guy who's entire game is his scoring. What a softy. Just for the record - Peja was 35-83 - 42.1% - in the 1st round series vs the Mavs. Luckily his teammates bailed him out.


Seems like you fit the definition of someone who doesn't watch basketball to me.

I was thinking the same thing about you. It seems to me that you're the typical fan that goes by what you hear instead of what you see.

Kstat
04-06-2008, 11:43 PM
Ahh yes, using team success to measure individual talent, the fall-back plan for everyone who has noting else to work with. Prince was the 5th wheel on the Piston's championship team. No different than a Derek Fisher or a Fabricio Oberto. Yes, he played his role well, but it was a role that many middle-of-the-pack SF's could've filled.

Incredibly unrealistic post all around. Tayshaun is way more gifted than Fisher and Oberto, and anybody that saw the pistons and pacers in 2004 would agree he'd much better than your typical "5th wheel."

He's much more talented than his stats indicate, but he sacrifices for the good of the team. He can also play 4 different positions, which has has done throughout the season.

He also leads the NBA in consecutive starts.

Again, I don't blame you for just looking at stats and assuming Prince isn't very good, just like you assumed Afflalo and Stuckey are busts when every piston fan is thrilled with both of them.

You don't watch the games, therefore you can only look at the numbers and guess.

JayRedd
04-07-2008, 12:24 AM
Derek Fisher couldn't carry Tayshaun's jock in a suitcase. And I like Fish.

Kofi
04-07-2008, 12:49 AM
Incredibly unrealistic post all around. Tayshaun is way more gifted than Fisher and Oberto, and anybody that saw the pistons and pacers in 2004 would agree he'd much better than your typical "5th wheel."

He's much more talented than his stats indicate, but he sacrifices for the good of the team. He can also play 4 different positions, which has has done throughout the season.

He also leads the NBA in consecutive starts.

Again, I don't blame you for just looking at stats and assuming Prince isn't very good, just like you assumed Afflalo and Stuckey are busts when every piston fan is thrilled with both of them.

You don't watch the games, therefore you can only look at the numbers and guess.

Prince is what he is - a middle of the pack starting SF. Not top-10, not bottom bottom-10.

He's scoring 13.5 points per game on less than amazing shooting percentages. He's only shooting 44.5% from the field, and he doesn't have the excuse of taking 1/3rd of his shoots from downtown that someone like Danny Granger has. He rarely gets to the line (3.1 fta per game). If he were to go to another team and be made a larger part of the offense, there's no reason to believe his shooting percentages wouldn't be somewhere between bad and horrible. He's just not a good scorer. He's a set shooter, nothing more. It works out perfectly for him, because that's all he's asked to be in Detroit, while at the same time people can claim how he sacrifices his own stats for the team. I'm smart enough to know better.

King Tuts Tomb
04-07-2008, 01:04 AM
Ahh yes, using team success to measure individual talent, the fall-back plan for everyone who has noting else to work with. Prince was the 5th wheel on the Piston's championship team. No different than a Derek Fisher or a Fabricio Oberto. Yes, he played his role well, but it was a role that many middle-of-the-pack SF's could've filled.

KStat has already proved you wrong on this, no need to go into it further.


When you have to resort to an unrealistic hypothetical situation to defend your claims, chances are you need a new argument.Unrealistic hypotheticals? Huh? When you don't know enough about the league to know what happened a decade ago, chances are you need a clue.



He had Mike Bibby, All-Star Brad Miller, Vlade Divac, Doug Christie, Bobby Jackson coming off a 6th Man of the Year season, young stud Gerald Wallace, and Chris Webber for a portion of the season (including the playoffs). Not exactly a bad group of players. They also had good chemistry due to playing together for several years.I agree, single-handedly was hyperbole, but he was the best player on one of the best teams in the NBA for a full season. Not many players can say that. Peja can.


And with all that said, they went home in the second round, primary thanks to Peja's horrible play. 41-115 in the series vs Minnesota. That's 35.7%, enough to make Jamaal Tinsley cringe. And this from a guy who's entire game is his scoring. What a softy. Just for the record - Peja was 35-83 - 42.1% - in the 1st round series vs the Mavs. Luckily his teammates bailed him out.I don't understand how this makes him soft. Lots of players have had trouble in the playoffs, since when is that grounds for the soft label?


I was thinking the same thing about you. It seems to me that you're the typical fan that goes by what you hear instead of what you see.I don't want to get into a pissing match with you about the league, because I don't know you or know your background. You could be Jerry West for all I know, but on the basis of what I've seen here you seem more Billy King (Edit: I think Billy King might be to good. More like Chris Wallace)

rexnom
04-07-2008, 01:13 AM
To me he's soft because he didn't suck it up and play in a playoff series where he clearly could have.

tdubb03
04-07-2008, 01:42 AM
Peja's extremely soft, in my opinion. I HAVE SPOKEN!

Robertmto
04-07-2008, 03:32 AM
Lol @ Tayshaun being middle of the pack. Yea he isn't an amazing scorer in that system, but he IS a 6'9 genetic gift, with a 7 foot wingspan, great jumping ability and basketball IQ. But of course those don;t show up in boxscores so how would you know?

Kofi
04-07-2008, 03:39 AM
I've said my piece on why Prince is middle of the pack, and I backed it up with facts. Until I see an intelligent argument stating otherwise, I'm done with the topic.

Robertmto
04-07-2008, 03:43 AM
I've said my piece on why Prince is middle of the pack, and I backed it up with facts. Until I see an intelligent argument stating otherwise, I'm done with the topic.

because he doesn't score enough for you, even tho he is the 4th option?? Honestly, watch basketball.

Kofi
04-07-2008, 03:50 AM
because he doesn't score enough for you, even tho he is the 4th option?? Honestly, watch basketball.

If you're shooting 44% while being the 4th option, and only getting to the line 3 times a game, you don't deserve to be a primary scoring option on any team, let alone a playoff team. That's called common sense.

Robertmto
04-07-2008, 03:51 AM
If you're shooting 44% while being the 4th option, and only getting to the line 3 times a game, you don't deserve to be a primary scoring option on any team, let alone a playoff team. That's called common sense.

you seem to believe there's only 1 part to basketball.

This just in :reporter: NBA Games aren't first to 15!!!

Defense is required.

Back to you Chuck...

duke dynamite
04-07-2008, 04:01 AM
I think being consistently at the top of the east for the past few years is enough for me to believe these guys are earning their checks.

GAWD, I can't believe I just complimented the Pistons...KStat, say it isn't so! :P

rexnom
04-07-2008, 04:01 AM
I've said my piece on why Prince is middle of the pack, and I backed it up with facts. Until I see an intelligent argument stating otherwise, I'm done with the topic.
You would honestly take 10-15 SFs before Tay?

Kstat
04-07-2008, 04:16 AM
If you're shooting 44% while being the 4th option, and only getting to the line 3 times a game, you don't deserve to be a primary scoring option on any team, let alone a playoff team. That's called common sense.

Tayshaun isn't supposed to dominate the scoring. If you ever actually took the time to watch 10-15 pistons games, you'd know that.

Some games we ask him to initiate the offense in order to get chauncey more scoring opportunities.

Other games when someone is hurt (like rip has been this year), we ask him to score, and he's broken 30 several times to pick up the slack.

Some games we ask him to focus on defending (like against boston), and Tayshaun isn't asked to score because he spends the whole game defending Pierce.

Tayshaun has played point guard, shooting guard, small forward and power forward at different points this year.

This why why your stats argument holds no water at all. We don't ask him to do the same thing every game, so his stats always suffer.

Not to mention, he's the only player in the NBA that's started every game over the last 5 seasons.

Other than that, yeah, stats really do tell the whole story with tayshaun... :laugh:

Kofi
04-07-2008, 04:22 AM
You would honestly take 10-15 SFs before Tay?

Yep. Have you looked at the SF's in the league?

7 no-brainers....

Paul Pierce
LeBron James
Josh Howard
Carmelo Anthony
Tracy McGrady
Shawn Marion
Caron Butler

And here are 9 other SF's I consider better overall players than Prince...

Gerald Wallace
Luol Deng
Danny Granger
Lamar Odom
Rashard Lewis
Mike Miller
Richard Jefferson
Ron Artest
Andrei Kirilenko

There are also a nice group of young SF's on the rise, who I think could eclipse Prince in the next few seasons: Al Thornton, Thadeus Young, Travis Outlaw, Josh Smith, Shawne Williams, Marvin Williams, Jeff Green, Kevin Durant (I don't care where he's currently playing, he's a SF).

I just don't think very highly of Prince. I never have. You can list off all the Piston's team success you want, but put any of the above mentioned players next to Billups, Rip, and the Wallaces and tell me they wouldn't still be a perennial 50+ win team.

Kstat
04-07-2008, 04:27 AM
I just don't think very highly of Prince. I never have.

Course not. Hard to form a good opinion of someone you've never seen play outside of a box score...


You can list off all the Piston's team success you want, but put any of the above mentioned players next to Billups, Rip, and the Wallaces and tell me they wouldn't still be a perennial 50+ win team.

...except they haven't had ben wallace for 2 years, and they're still winning 50+ games....

I'm just going to repeat what everyone else in this thread has said. Watch some basketball games.

tdubb03
04-07-2008, 04:46 AM
To hell with Tayshaun. When I think of Reggie that block is in the first 5 or so plays to come to mind. To hell with him I say!

King Tuts Tomb
04-07-2008, 04:56 AM
I hate that a Pacers message board has joined together to defend a Piston, especially one from Kentucky, but I think most of us respect Prince's game.

Stats are only number unless they're put into context. Look at Prince's numbers as a fourth option, in addition to a fantastic defender and intangibles guy, and I don't see how you can't consider him a second-tier SF. I'd much MUCH rather have a solid guy who knows his role and kills himself on the floor than someone more talented who brings other problems to the team (AK, Artest, etc).

And since when is 45% from the field awful? It's not amazing by any means, but he's never shot lower than that in a season, and he's not a volume shooter so it doesn't hurt the team.

And he's not a great defender? Three straight all-second team defensive mentions. Also has the most famous defensive play of the last decade.

So, let's look at this:

-13-5-4
-top-notch defender
-play-off tested
-knows his role and will never complain
-NEVER misses a game

I'll gladly pay $10 million for that.

naptownmenace
04-07-2008, 11:54 AM
He sat out four playoff games to get paid in 2006 and as a result we lost to a very beatable Nets team. He's soft.

In his defense, he had a legitimate knee injury.

He ended up having surgery on it and then missed a ton of games for New Orleans his first season there because of that same knee. He's not soft, IMO.

Major Cold
04-07-2008, 11:59 AM
From what I understand it means that he is a Restricted FreeAgent.

If a team offers him a contract we can match and he as to stay with us. If there is no offer then he would be a unrestricted FA. Meaning he would go anywhere for what ever contract is offered.

OakMoses
04-07-2008, 12:54 PM
Correct:




Peja Stojakovic -$13M (overpaid)

Andrei Kirilenko - $16M (overpaid)

Darius Miles - $9M (overpaid)

Ron Artest - $7.4M (underpaid, if he were sane)

Boris Diaw - $9M (overpaid)

Rashard Lewis - $18M (overpaid)

Richard Jefferson - $13.5M (overpaid)

Shawn Marion - $16M (overpaid)

Lamar Odom - $13.5M (overpaid)

Tracy McGrady - $20M (overpaid)

Josh Howard - $11M (about right)

Caron Butler - $9.5 (underpaid)


Incorrect:




Tayshaun Prince - $10M (overpaid)

Paul Pierce - $18M (overpaid)

Mike Miller - $9M (about right)

Corey Maggette - $7M (underpaid)

Al Harrington - $9M (about right)

Carmelo Anthony - $16M (overpaid)

Gerald Wallace - $9.5M (underpaid)


The Prince issue has been argued to death, so I won't comment further, other than to say that I think he's fairly compensated at $10 million.

Paul Pierce is a legitimate star and franchise player. I agree that $18 million is very steep, but if you take into consideration that Rashard Lewis just signed a similar contract, it doesn't look bad at all. There's no one in the league who'd rather have Lewis than Pierce.

$9 million seems a bit high for Miller, but it's probably not more than a million or so off. That's nitpicky, I know.

I'd put Magette in the "about right" category. He's a guy that can score and he rebounds well for his position, but he has no range and doesn't pass or defend particularly well.

Harrington is overpaid. He's paid fairly for what he brings to the table as far as skills go, but he's changed teams 3 times recently, and I don't think he's made any of the teams he's gone to any better. I'd like to get a little more for my $9 million than that. Guys like Shane Battier and Bruce Bowen, who make far less money, do much more to make their teams better.

You'll not find many people who like Carmelo Anthony less than I do, but you can't really say that he's not a max player.

Gerald Wallace is paid about right, especially when you take his injury history into account.

One guy to add to the underpaid list is Shane Battier. 9-10 ppg, 4-5 reb, 2:1 assist to TO, 1 block, 1 steal, plays big minutes and plays nearly every game, and is one of the best (if not the best) wing defenders in the NBA. All for only $5.8 million.

indygeezer
04-07-2008, 01:22 PM
How much is a championship worth?

With that one block, TP took the winds out of a furious Pacer comeback and quite likely changed the entire PO series in favor of the Pistons.

That one play, IMO, is worth every dime they ever pay him, at least to the Pistons it is.

Major Cold
04-07-2008, 01:51 PM
From what I understand it means that he is a Restricted FreeAgent.

If a team offers him a contract we can match and he as to stay with us. If there is no offer then he would be a unrestricted FA. Meaning he would go anywhere for what ever contract is offered.

Sorry wrong


BTW

Kofi-
In your reality your right. In reality your just plain wrong.

Watch basketball.

Major Cold
04-07-2008, 01:56 PM
Why did the Pacers trade Detlef for McKey? Statistically speaking Detlef was better.

Bruce Bowen is pointless as well.

CableKC
04-07-2008, 02:07 PM
I'm still confused on Grangers Contract status in the 2009-2010 season. He has a Qualifying Offer of $3.29 mil in the 2009-2010 season.

Does that mean that if we decide to give him a Contract Extension sometime before or during the 2009-2010 season that only $3.29 mil will count towards the salarycap in the 2009-2010 season and then his new contract will kick in after the 2010-2011 season?

I'm trying to figure out how much we have to clear in salary either before or after the 2009-2010 season. Figuring out when we have to have the "extra $10-11 mil" in salary cap could help determine what moves we have to make and who we have to sign/resign.

count55
04-07-2008, 03:32 PM
I'm still confused on Grangers Contract status in the 2009-2010 season. He has a Qualifying Offer of $3.29 mil in the 2009-2010 season.

Does that mean that if we decide to give him a Contract Extension sometime before or during the 2009-2010 season that only $3.29 mil will count towards the salarycap in the 2009-2010 season and then his new contract will kick in after the 2010-2011 season?

I'm trying to figure out how much we have to clear in salary either before or after the 2009-2010 season. Figuring out when we have to have the "extra $10-11 mil" in salary cap could help determine what moves we have to make and who we have to sign/resign.

No...the qualifying offer is a placeholder to indicate what they'd have to offer to maintain is "restricted status".

We can sign him to an extension for up to five years at up to the max for his experience (which would start at just over $13.0 mil) this summer. (The Rookie Contract extension is the only one not limited to the max 10.5% increase from the end of the contract.) If we were to sign him to an extension, then he'd be on the books in 2008-2009 at the last year of his rookie contract, then 2009-2010 would be at whatever his starting salary would be. (Right now, my guess is $8 million-ish, but it's hard to say.)

So, the net answer is that we need the cap room in 2009-2010.

EDIT: The $3.29 mil would only be the cap number IF that were his starting salary, but then the contract could only be 6-years, about $25-26 million. My guess at $8 mil is based on what would effectively be a 5-year, $50 million contract extension...I am hopeful that we will make pretty much every effort to keep him from ever getting to test the free agent market..