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View Full Version : Maybe it wasn't the Pacers offense



Unclebuck
06-06-2004, 11:44 PM
Watching the Pistons defense control the Lakers much like they did the Pacers has convinced me of two things, one thing I knew and one thing I did not know.

1) Pistons are a great defense basketball team, but I knew that. How good a defender is Prince.

2) Pacers offense was bad because the Pistons are a great deensive team, not because the pacers offense is bad.

Another thing it is obvious to me the Pacers defense is better than the Lakers but I think we knew that. Pisotns were geting any shot they wanted tonight.

Go eastern conference

Bball
06-06-2004, 11:47 PM
Phil Jackson may show what kind of coach he really is. Larry Brown and this team will test him big time.

-Bball

Bball
06-06-2004, 11:53 PM
In all fairness tomorrow's game will be a big test. Lakers notoriously don't bring it every game, although their 2 big guns did tonight.

I hope the Pistons sweep them though.

Pistons aren't the kind of team that the Lakers can plan to turn it on whenever they want. They will only get limited opportunities. They can't afford to burn any chances.

The Lakers can certainly beat the Pistons but I never considered it a foregone conclusion that the Pistons had no chance (as some did).

-Bball

sweabs
06-06-2004, 11:54 PM
My original prediction of Pistons in 6 will remain untouched.

Hicks
06-06-2004, 11:54 PM
I know this series could take a 180 at any moment, but this game left me thinking the Pistons will win the title as long as they keep this level of effort and calmness going.

LA's biggest guns got their points. Hamilton didn't get his. Det wins by 12. I think LA's in trouble, although they certainly aren't even close to done.

Everything could be the opposite feel in a few days, but nothign about tonight said fluke to me. Not at all.

Go East!

Hicks
06-06-2004, 11:55 PM
My original prediction of Pistons in 6 will remain untouched.

My prediction of Lakers in 6 may need to touching lol.

ROCislandWarrior
06-06-2004, 11:55 PM
I found myself cheering for the Pistons, not forcefully either, I was doing it out of pure joy. I guess I gained a whole lotta respect for the Pistons after our series. Go east, this way none of us will have to listen to the stupid west coast fans or the media talk about how much better the West is.

It is early, losing game one won't concern the lakers one bit.
I think they may have underestimated the Pistons D. Like UB said, the Pistons D made our O look bad. I honestly can't see this series going less than 6-7 games now.

TheSauceMaster
06-06-2004, 11:57 PM
Even if the East wins the media will make excuses for the West , it's gonna take more than 1 EC win to wake the media up I am afraid.

Still Sticking to Lakers in 6 ;)

sweabs
06-07-2004, 12:10 AM
I'm sure there is this little voice inside of some of our heads that has been whispering:

"What if our Pacers had been healthy??? Would we be up 1-0 in the series right now???"

:devil:.

Cory
06-07-2004, 12:21 AM
I find it absolutely hilarious that people think that the Lakers will beat the Pistons......Even the Pacers are better than the Lakers and Detroit beat them four out of five games.....I know I keep repeating myself but I have never seen a team play defense like these Detroit Pistons......

bulletproof
06-07-2004, 01:23 AM
I think my prediction of Lakers in 4 needs to be revised. :blush:

Anthem
06-07-2004, 02:04 AM
I just wish the Pistons would have missed as many easy shots in ALL OF OUR GAMES COMBINED as they did in the first half against the Lakers. Yeesh.

waterjater
06-07-2004, 02:15 AM
I have to admit, I was surprised tonight of how many open looks Detroit got. Had RIP been on like he was against us, the Pistons blow them out! It was actually a "well officiated game", which is hard for me to say. The Piston's got called for the hacking in the paint and Shaq went to the line a ton, BUT it seemed pretty fair tonight and I wasn't cheering for Detroit because of my stated disgust of Rasheed. (but I found myself pulling for Larry Brown, the coach who moved the Pacers into the upper echelon and consistent playoff success!)

Larry Brown has finally figured out how to play Shaq, after blowing it with the Pacers in the '94 Eastern Finals and 3 years ago with Philly. Shaq and Kobe will get their points regardless of how you defend them, so play them straight up and shut everyone else down. FINALLY, FINALLY!! The one time Chauncey doubled down (and the last) Gary Payton nails a 3.

I'm now even MORE IMPRESSED with my hometown Pacers!! Our defense is SO MUCH better than the Lakers. Detroit even made the Lakers look bad taking shots they don't normally take or miss. I didn't see this happening because of Shaq and Kobe's ability to create and hit shots under duress.

I'm also not foolish, and I expect the Lakers to play really well in Game 2 after some adjustments and Kobe will go off on a scoring binge soon. These games tend to swing big, but I was really surprised at how well Detroit played tonight.

sweabs
06-07-2004, 09:09 AM
I'm now even MORE IMPRESSED with my hometown Pacers!! Our defense is SO MUCH better than the Lakers.

Me too! Detroit and Indiana are NOT bad offensive teams...they are great defensive teams that were able to shut each other down.

Last night Detroit proved that they could shoot the ball when you gave them wide open looks.

DisplacedKnick
06-07-2004, 09:24 AM
Loved that game. LA looked really confused toward the end. Sort of like, "Kobe and Shaq are getting their shots - we should be winning."

Wasn't really any desperation, they didn't turn things up toward the end - nothing. If I'm an LA fan, right now I'm wondering about that team.

This series could just destroy my boilerplate pattern for "championship team requirements."

If the Pistons win they, a) Have no reliable post scoring, b) Don't have a perimeter guy who can really break down the defense, though Hamilton approaches that.

For the Lakers to win, I think they'll have to do it on the Pistons terms. IOTW, they'll have to become a top defensive team for the rest of this series. I haven't seen them much this year - I'm not sure if they can do that.

leon
06-07-2004, 09:26 AM
I find it absolutely hilarious that people think that the Lakers will beat the Pistons......Even the Pacers are better than the Lakers and Detroit beat them four out of five games.....I know I keep repeating myself but I have never seen a team play defense like these Detroit Pistons......

I was listening to ESPN radio a couple of hours before the game, and Fred Carter was talking about the personnel changes the Pistons will have to make to have a chance to beat the Lakers next year. That's how much of a forgone conclusion this series was.

I'm no Pistons fan, but I hope they wipe the floor with these guys.

Slick Pinkham
06-07-2004, 09:35 AM
I just hate the party line that he Lakers were just "disinterested" and "took the game off" and "lacked focus"

and so the Pistons "stole game 1"

I saw a pretty much tipoff-to-final horn exhibiton of a talented and tough-minded Pistons team TAKING IT TO the Lakers.

It was fun to watch!

:dance:

But even if the Pistons win this, the mediots will puzzle over just why or how the Lakers were distracted too much to take it seriously enough to dispatch the obviously undermanned token representative of the junior varsity conference.

Suaveness
06-07-2004, 09:54 AM
I hate the Lakers. And I have a lot of respect for Detroit, even though I hate them too. Go east. Represent, baby.

Fool
06-07-2004, 09:57 AM
By the begining of game one (after the many days of waiting) I had actually begun to hear things like, "If the Piston's struggled with Indiana's defense, wait till they see L.A.'s!" The statements that L.A.'s defense was better than Indiana's grew exponentially the closer the game came to tip-off.

sweabs
06-07-2004, 10:03 AM
By the begining of game one (after the many days of waiting) I had actually begun to hear things like, "If the Piston's struggled with Indiana's defense, wait till they see L.A.'s!" The statements that L.A.'s defense was better than Indiana's grew exponentially the closer the game came to tip-off.

:rotflmao:
:rotflmao:
:rotflmao:
:rotflmao:

:rolleyes:
:unimpressed:

Hicks
06-07-2004, 11:56 AM
I hope after last night no one ever claims LA's D is better than ours again. What a joke.

Kstat
06-07-2004, 12:12 PM
A few comments:

The LA defense is a joke: if I hate to rate the NBA's best defenses, I'd rate Detroit #1, SA and Indy would tie at #2, and at #4 It'd be a close call between NJ and Houston.

LA wouldn't rank in my top 15. Name ONE guy on that team thats a defensive stopper. Payton? Malone? George? They're all OFFENSIVE guys. There isn't a JO or an Artest to worry about on LA. Larry Brown made the comment that we had trouble getting used to the fact our shots were so OPEN. A lot of our missed layups were the result of having to take off-balance shots in the LAST series. Once we realize that there weren't any help-defenders on the way, it was smooth sailing.

Corliss Williamson must be in heaven. No Rodney Rogers, no Al Harrington, no Jon Bender, LA has NOBODY that can check him.

And Kobe did a great job on Rip, but he just looked WORN OUT from chasing him. In the 4th he had no legs to get by Prince, and everyone knows that you cant shoot OVER him.

I also, for the first time, saw a VERY worn down Shaq. This isn't minnesota. Ben made him work. Memo made him work. Elden made him work. and yet, shaq dominated. But did you see his SIX turnovers? Most of them were clear signs of fatigue.

As good as Shaq is, I simply don't think he's in good enough shape to dominate for a full 48 minutes. It looked remarkably like Ali's "rope-a-dope" strategy. The Pistons took all of shaq's best punches early, and by the 4th quarter he looked TOTALLY worn out, and we delivered the knockout blow.

The question in this series isn't wether the Pistons can score enough, its wether the LAKERS can score enough.

Unclebuck
06-07-2004, 01:00 PM
In my thread starting post, I asked a question about how good a defender is Prince. No one answered my question, so I guess I will.

He defended Artest better than anyone I have seen all season long. Yes they have great help, but his one-on-one defense on Artest was the best I have seen this season, and it is not even close.

Then watching Prince do a job on Kobe last night, I started wondering how good is he.

Is he the 2nd best small forward defender in the NBA behind Artest, I think he is. KG is not a small forward

Kstat
06-07-2004, 01:07 PM
I've been saying it all year, I think Prince will be a 2nd-team all-defensive player in the next 2 years. He isn't overpowering (Richard Jefferson really gives him problems), but he's got physical gifts (wingspan) and great basketball IQ that most defenders don't.

waterjater
06-07-2004, 08:00 PM
A few comments:

As good as Shaq is, I simply don't think he's in good enough shape to dominate for a full 48 minutes. It looked remarkably like Ali's "rope-a-dope" strategy. The Pistons took all of shaq's best punches early, and by the 4th quarter he looked TOTALLY worn out, and we delivered the knockout blow.

The question in this series isn't wether the Pistons can score enough, its wether the LAKERS can score enough.

Yes, because Larry B. has finally learned not to double Shaq and open up everyone else for wide open jumpers and 3 ptrs. Shaq will get 20-40 pts regardless of how many defenders are on him, so why waste a 2nd defender on him. I hope he holds this strategy for the entire series. The Pacers took LA to 6 games in 2000 employing a straight up strategy on Shaq.

On the scoring, you might be right. I never thought this could be true, never crossed my mind...time will tell.

Water

Bball
06-08-2004, 01:43 AM
In a sense I tend to agree, the Lakers certainly didn't show the hunger that the Pistons did..throughout.

IMO that_ was the difference in game 1 although an argument can be made that the Lakers reflected some rust and lack of team cohesion due to the layoff between series.

Meanwhile Detroit was on top of their game with no rust after playing their last game of the ECF's 24 hrs after LA's last game of the WCF's. LA got awfully rusty in only 24 hours difference compared to Detroit. I'm not saying rust wasn't a factor but I have to wonder how Detroit avoided it then?

-Bball

DisplacedKnick
06-08-2004, 09:01 AM
In a sense I tend to agree, the Lakers certainly didn't show the hunger that the Pistons did..throughout.

IMO that_ was the difference in game 1 although an argument can be made that the Lakers reflected some rust and lack of team cohesion due to the layoff between series.

Meanwhile Detroit was on top of their game with no rust after playing their last game of the ECF's 24 hrs after LA's last game of the WCF's. LA got awfully rusty in only 24 hours difference compared to Detroit. I'm not saying rust wasn't a factor but I have to wonder how Detroit avoided it then?

-Bball

Well, being from Detroit and the rust belt I'm sure they had some extra WD-40 to chug between series.

SycamoreKen
06-08-2004, 10:45 AM
I have to admit, I was surprised tonight of how many open looks Detroit got.



That is no surprise to me. San Antonio got open shots against them, they just didn't hit them. I don't know about Minnisota bacause I didn't watch that series.

clownskull
06-08-2004, 12:04 PM
well, i am one who picked lakers in 6. i did so not because i think the lakers are so good but, because i figure they will get most of the calls. i would not be a bit surprised if phil tells kobe to force the issue and drive no matter what. it used to work all the time back in chicago with jordan. he would drive and the refs would bail him out. eventually, key defensive players get in foul trouble. and then on the other side, as much as the refs give kobe beneficial calls, no one has ever recieved the kind of protection jordan recieved back in chicago. this could be a big problem for that coaching guru mr. jackson- actually having to coach. payton being uncomfortable with phil's offense could really hurt the lakers like it did in gm.1
i think even though i hate detroit, i will pull for them because i have always liked larry brown and really hate phil jackson. i will never forgive jackson after what he said in the '98' ecf's when he blasted the officiating for doing a munich '72' where the usa got screwed by an international squad of refs and kept giving the russians several underserved chances to win the olympic gold. he is probably the sorest loser i have ever seen or heard. at least his comments got him something like a 10 grand fine and a warning of more severe action if he kept it up.

LAPacer
06-08-2004, 12:09 PM
well, i am one who picked lakers in 6. i did so not because i think the lakers are so good but, because i figure they will get most of the calls. i would not be a bit surprised if phil tells kobe to force the issue and drive no matter what. it used to work all the time back in chicago with jordan. he would drive and the refs would bail him out. eventually, key defensive players get in foul trouble. and then on the other side, as much as the refs give kobe beneficial calls, no one has ever recieved the kind of protection jordan recieved back in chicago. this could be a big problem for that coaching guru mr. jackson- actually having to coach. payton being uncomfortable with phil's offense could really hurt the lakers like it did in gm.1
i think even though i hate detroit, i will pull for them because i have always liked larry brown and really hate phil jackson. i will never forgive jackson after what he said in the '98' ecf's when he blasted the officiating for doing a munich '72' where the usa got screwed by an international squad of refs and kept giving the russians several underserved chances to win the olympic gold. he is probably the sorest loser i have ever seen or heard. at least his comments got him something like a 10 grand fine and a warning of more severe action if he kept it up.

i still remember the jordan protection association like it was yesterday. very very painful. anytime he missed his lay up the ref would blow the whistle. there was this time when bird, magic, and jordan were "modeling" for a photo shoot for dream team 1. magic said, "hey larry, don't get too close to Michael... thats a foul".


maybe kobe will lose the ball before he goes for the layup. kobe tends to do that alot and isn't near the player jordan was.