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bulletproof
06-03-2004, 10:08 PM
Excerpts from an interview with Rick. Does this sound like "All Donnie is is a consultant?" It supports what I've been saying all along which is, "they work very closely together and function as a team. It's almost like a brain trust." So, if you won't believe me, perhaps you'll believe Rick:


Q. Al Harrington obviously wants to start, but has been unable to do so here. How do you see his future evolving?

A. This has been a tough situation for Al, because I view him as a starter in this league. I know heís that kind of player. As the summer progresses, weíll see what takes form. If there was the opportunity for him to be a starter here, that would be great. And if there isnít, then it may be time for him to move on to another team. But those are decisions that are going to be made by Larry (Bird) and Donnie (Walsh). Whatever happens, Al has had a great year for us. In my mind, he shouldíve been the Sixth Man award winner. He had that kind of impact and we had the best record. He had a tremendous year and was one of the major reasons were in a strong position throughout the year and into the playoffs.

Q. Do you feel changes need to be made for this team to reach the championship level?

A. Because our team is still so young, I think itís very possible that we could just continue to develop moving forward, not make many changes, and that we would be in a strong position next year to be better. But this summer is going to be a busy summer. I expect that there will be some changes and the roster will be different next year. How much I donít know. Thatís going to depend on conversations that Larry and Donnie have and what makes sense for our team. I expect there will be some things that are different.

Q. Is the franchise taking a win-now stance, as it applies to potential offseason changes, or is it still building for the future?

A. That question can only be answered in the context of which players youíre talking about. I really believe the approach Larry and Donnie take will be to continue to try to acquire young talent. Maybe not early 20s-type guys, but we still want to get guys that are entering their prime or maybe in the midst of their prime. If thereís an opportunity to make a move on a guy thatís an older player that would be a championship move, Larry and Donnie would have to make that decision. Thatís a tough question for me to answer because I donít make those decisions. Time will tell.

Q. How does the expansion draft affect your offseason plans?

A. We could lose one player or we could lose zero. Thereís 14 players being picked, I believe. The science of who to protect and all of that is something Larry and Donnie will examine. Theyíll make the right decision and then we have to wait and see. We may be sitting back with our fingers crossed, hoping nobody gets taken. But it is another component to the summer. It happens before the NBA Draft, so those things are going to have to be examined and decisions are going to have to be made and theyíre going to be tough decisions.

Q. Are there any untouchables on the roster?

A. Thatís really for Donnie and Larry to say. I donít think Jermaine OíNealís going to get traded. Thatís my feeling. But thatís something you have to talk to them about.

Bball
06-03-2004, 10:46 PM
Rick is just trying to make you look good! ;)


-Bball :D

Will Galen
06-03-2004, 11:05 PM
Excerpts from an interview with Rick. Does this sound like "All Donnie is is a consultant?" It supports what I've been saying all along which is, "they work very closely together and function as a team. It's almost like a brain trust." So, if you won't believe me, perhaps you'll believe Rick:


I had already read that.

I'll state once again. I haven't said they don't work closely together, I've agreed with you! The whole Pacer organization works closely together, Bird, Donnie, all the coach's, and scouts. However, the bottom line is it's Larry Bird's job to makes decisions related to the Pacers, thus he has the final word on draft choices, etc.

You keep saying draft choices etc. are mutual decisions between Larry and Donnie and I'll agree it would be a mutual decision as long as they agree. However, they don't always agree.

When the Pacers traded Antonio Davis for the 5th pick in the draft, Walsh chose Bender with that pick, whereas reports were Bird wanted Shawn Marion, or Wally Szczerbiak.

If such a disagreement happened now, Bird would have the final say!

Bulletproof, either Bird or Walsh has the final say, they both can't have it. So it comes down to the fact it's Bird's job.

Peck
06-04-2004, 12:39 AM
Sorry Will, I have to disagree with you on this.

Until proven otherwise or until the day he walks out the door I think Walsh will always have final veto power.

Even if I were to agree with you about Bird having final say Walsh can still fire Bird. So in the end that is the final trump card.

Now having said all of that I will say this, it will never go down like that. I think each of them respect each other to much for it to ever go that far. I can't possibly see a scenario where it would go that far.

Now on top of all of that, I will say this. Bird possibly is a waste of Simons money, but it will be argued (& probably rightfully so) that Walsh has earned the right to have an assistant.

indygeezer
06-04-2004, 12:46 AM
Nothing wrong with grooming your hand-picked heir-apparent.

I'm not sure how it works. I think LB may have the say on talent but DW input.

"OK Larry yo want shooting gaurds? This is who is available that fits within the salary structure. Now here is how we can make it work"

bulletproof
06-04-2004, 01:17 AM
I'm not sure how it works.

I am. ;)

Will Galen
06-04-2004, 01:20 AM
I'm not sure how it works.

I am. ;)

We will see. I just sent the below letter to the Pacers asking who's in charge.
---

Dear Sir, or Ma'am,

I have a question that's being debated on a forum I frequent. (Pacersdigest.com)

I know the Pacer's organization works closely together, but who exactly is in charge? I'm talking about who makes the final decision in regards to basketball, draft picks, etc. in case of a disagreement.

My contention is that person is now Larry Bird. Others are saying that Donnie Walsh still makes that decision, or it's a mutual decision between Bird and Walsh. Could you please clear this matter up for us?

Thank you!

Will
---

I'll post any replys I get.

Bball
06-04-2004, 01:29 AM
I have a question that's being debated on a forum I frequent. (Pacersdigest.com)



Hmmm.... how long before the cease and desist order?

-Bball

Hicks
06-04-2004, 01:34 AM
I have a question that's being debated on a forum I frequent. (Pacersdigest.com)



Hmmm.... how long before the cease and desist order?

-Bball

Cease and desist what? Being fans? :laugh:

TheSauceMaster
06-04-2004, 01:42 AM
I have a question that's being debated on a forum I frequent. (Pacersdigest.com)



Hmmm.... how long before the cease and desist order?

-Bball

They could but the likely they would is pretty small , the Indy Star could be buttheads about posting of full articles too , but would they doubt it .

kerosene
06-04-2004, 01:43 AM
Cease and desist what? Being fans? :laugh:

Anthony Johnson might have some kind of slander case :laugh: Then again, he'd have to convince a judge that "No, really, the offense really does run better when I'm in!"

bulletproof
06-04-2004, 01:55 AM
I'm not sure how it works.

I am. ;)

We will see. I just sent the below letter to the Pacers asking who's in charge.
---

Dear Sir, or Ma'am,

I have a question that's being debated on a forum I frequent. (Pacersdigest.com)

I know the Pacer's organization works closely together, but who exactly is in charge? I'm talking about who makes the final decision in regards to basketball, draft picks, etc. in case of a disagreement.

My contention is that person is now Larry Bird. Others are saying that Donnie Walsh still makes that decision, or it's a mutual decision between Bird and Walsh. Could you please clear this matter up for us?

Thank you!

Will
---

I'll post any replys I get.

Why would you need to send a letter when you could just ask me? :whoknows:

Who do you hope gets that letter and replies to it? Trust me, it won't be more accurate than what I've told you already.

Will Galen
06-04-2004, 02:10 AM
Why would you need to send a letter when you could just ask me? :whoknows:



After that wacko Peck agreed with you I felt in need of a third opinion!

:rotflmao:






Just kidding Peck.

Hoop
06-04-2004, 03:05 AM
I would bet Donnie is still the God of the Pacer's universe, Larry's still in training.

able
06-04-2004, 06:28 AM
as in any organisation with a structure, the ceo is in charge which in this case is DW.

As said in last years' introduction press conference LB makes the decisions, DW has to sign of on them, if he doesn't agree, it's a no go.

DW will not stop LB from making a decision, but LB better prepare his course work darned well.

And yes, DW is showing him the ropes, LB has never been in this situation before as a pres of BB ops, so he can learn a great deal from one of the best in the business, imo a totally moot discussion :D

geekman
06-04-2004, 07:51 AM
I have a question that's being debated on a forum I frequent. (Pacersdigest.com)



Hmmm.... how long before the cease and desist order?

-Bball

Cease and desist what? Being fans? :laugh:

The name of the Pacers as well as there color scheme and logo are part of the Pacer's trademark. You lose trademarks if you don't defend them. The cease and desist order will be a letter from a law firm asking you to stop using their trademark. Now I am not a lawyer, but I have heard of other fan websites being shut down before. I hope and pray that the Pacers wouldn't do that, but you never know. For that reason I wouldn't recommend bringing the attention of the Pacer's organization to this website.

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but this is a very cool website to get Pacer's info, speculation, and editorials, would hate to lose it. On the optimistic side, there are a lot of fan sites out there, so maybe corps are relaxing about this sort of thing.

indygeezer
06-04-2004, 09:30 AM
I doubt that blue and gold are registered trademarks exclusive to the P's. and it could be argued (assuming the admins have enough $ to hire a lawyer) that the PD logo is far enough removed from the "real" P logo to be acceptable. The PD admins may even wanna think of copywriting the name and logo for this website so it doesn't get stolen by some corp. Hate to have an outsider steal it and them come back and tell us to shut down or else.
Anyone know more than I have expressed. My experience with TM and copywrite are solely based on some of my work I've had copywrited. THat's the limit of my knowledge.

able
06-04-2004, 09:47 AM
I have a question that's being debated on a forum I frequent. (Pacersdigest.com)



Hmmm.... how long before the cease and desist order?

-Bball

Cease and desist what? Being fans? :laugh:

The name of the Pacers as well as there color scheme and logo are part of the Pacer's trademark. You lose trademarks if you don't defend them. The cease and desist order will be a letter from a law firm asking you to stop using their trademark. Now I am not a lawyer, but I have heard of other fan websites being shut down before. I hope and pray that the Pacers wouldn't do that, but you never know. For that reason I wouldn't recommend bringing the attention of the Pacer's organization to this website.

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but this is a very cool website to get Pacer's info, speculation, and editorials, would hate to lose it. On the optimistic side, there are a lot of fan sites out there, so maybe corps are relaxing about this sort of thing.

There is a lot more twixth heaven and earth my dear Horatio........


There is a definite trend in sending out subpoenas and seeing them rejected by the courts, frivlolous actions are not looked upon kindly in this world anymore, less so where I live and do business, which is important, since I host the site, I would get the cease and desist and I would ignore it.

There is a defenite case to make for "fair use" here, so until then I am not worried, however as soon as someone on here wants money for anything, my rules and regulations change faster then light.
Until then it is a fan site, which just as a "hate" site is permitted by law under the fair use principle.

Heck I would have written Pacers.com ages ago asking to link to us had I not been so busy :D

After all , we do not serve a commercial purpose (IndyStar) and we are dedicated fans who could do with some insight and gossip from the well now and then.

Having said all that, I am sure that the Pacers Org is very well aware of the existence of this site, so stop worrying :)

Bball
06-04-2004, 09:47 AM
I have a question that's being debated on a forum I frequent. (Pacersdigest.com)



Hmmm.... how long before the cease and desist order?

-Bball

Cease and desist what? Being fans? :laugh:

The name of the Pacers as well as there color scheme and logo are part of the Pacer's trademark. You lose trademarks if you don't defend them. The cease and desist order will be a letter from a law firm asking you to stop using their trademark. Now I am not a lawyer, but I have heard of other fan websites being shut down before. I hope and pray that the Pacers wouldn't do that, but you never know. For that reason I wouldn't recommend bringing the attention of the Pacer's organization to this website.

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but this is a very cool website to get Pacer's info, speculation, and editorials, would hate to lose it. On the optimistic side, there are a lot of fan sites out there, so maybe corps are relaxing about this sort of thing.

I don't think corps are relaxing things as much as there are so many and they fly under the radar easily if places don't go 'hunting'. And I don't think most go 'hunting' very often. OTOH, when something lands on their doorstep they have to protect their interests. As you said, you are required to defend your tradmarks and copyrights or else there is a penalty. Once they officially 'know' about something, once there is a paper-trail, then all bets are off.

That said.... this site is hosted off-shore I gather so that might make some difference (dunno). Then again, the admins and webmasters are here.

-Bball

geekman
06-04-2004, 09:58 AM
I have a question that's being debated on a forum I frequent. (Pacersdigest.com)



Hmmm.... how long before the cease and desist order?

-Bball

Cease and desist what? Being fans? :laugh:

The name of the Pacers as well as there color scheme and logo are part of the Pacer's trademark. You lose trademarks if you don't defend them. The cease and desist order will be a letter from a law firm asking you to stop using their trademark. Now I am not a lawyer, but I have heard of other fan websites being shut down before. I hope and pray that the Pacers wouldn't do that, but you never know. For that reason I wouldn't recommend bringing the attention of the Pacer's organization to this website.

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but this is a very cool website to get Pacer's info, speculation, and editorials, would hate to lose it. On the optimistic side, there are a lot of fan sites out there, so maybe corps are relaxing about this sort of thing.

There is a lot more twixth heaven and earth my dear Horatio........


There is a definite trend in sending out subpoenas and seeing them rejected by the courts, frivlolous actions are not looked upon kindly in this world anymore, less so where I live and do business, which is important, since I host the site, I would get the cease and desist and I would ignore it.

There is a defenite case to make for "fair use" here, so until then I am not worried, however as soon as someone on here wants money for anything, my rules and regulations change faster then light.
Until then it is a fan site, which just as a "hate" site is permitted by law under the fair use principle.

Heck I would have written Pacers.com ages ago asking to link to us had I not been so busy :D

After all , we do not serve a commercial purpose (IndyStar) and we are dedicated fans who could do with some insight and gossip from the well now and then.

Having said all that, I am sure that the Pacers Org is very well aware of the existence of this site, so stop worrying :)

Able, I can't tell you how much my respect for you just went up. I do indeed hope that I am mistaken and that none of this is an issue. I am a little unsure of how fair use applies to trademarks, my understanding is that it applies to copyright. Common sense (at least in my mind) would dictate that it would extend to trademarks too. The Pacers Digest community is very lucky to have someone like you hosting this website. If there ever are problems, I belong to an organization (just means you donate to them) called the EFF. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, just the EFF. The Electronic Frontier Foundation fights against the erosion of personal rights in the digital world, and in general fights the good fight against overbearing corporations who think that the purpose of law is to make life easy for them. Thanks again Able.

geekman
06-04-2004, 10:11 AM
I don't think corps are relaxing things as much as there are so many and they fly under the radar easily if places don't go 'hunting'. And I don't think most go 'hunting' very often. OTOH, when something lands on their doorstep they have to protect their interests. As you said, you are required to defend your tradmarks and copyrights or else there is a penalty. Once they officially 'know' about something, once there is a paper-trail, then all bets are off.

That said.... this site is hosted off-shore I gather so that might make some difference (dunno). Then again, the admins and webmasters are here.

-Bball

I agree with this, with one exception, it is the trademarks that you have to protect or lose, not copyrights. AFAIK, you can't lose a legitimate copyright.Here is a good simple explanation:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=303343


In trademark law, you can't get trademark protection for a
brand name that is the generic name for the product (e.g., "Bread" as
a brand name for bread), and you can lose your trademark if it becomes so
closely associated with the product that people use your brand name
instead of the generic name for the product. For example, some words
that used to be trademarks are: yo-yo, zipper, kerosene, aspirin,
trampoline, escalator, heroin, cellophane, thermos, nylon, fiberglass,
and linoleum.


The more I think about it, the more I realize that I am being paranoid. The danger of the word Pacers becoming generic is zip, zero, nada. Enough of my paranoid ranting.

indygeezer
06-04-2004, 10:18 AM
pacers and trotters....horses not basketball teams.


Coke is still a registered trademark although used generically to mean soft drink. Fridgidaire used to be used genericlally to mean refrigerator until they went out of business. etc etc. what that means is nada.

Bball
06-04-2004, 10:24 AM
I agree with this, with one exception, it is the trademarks that you have to protect or lose, not copyrights. AFAIK, you can't lose a legitimate copyright.Here is a good simple explanation:



I included copyrights thinking about the reprinting of copyrighted materials... I don't have any idea where the 'fair use' line is altho I think requiring that reprints be attributed and linked is a good idea.

It is just paranoia because I'd hate to see this site get handcuffed. I like it pretty much as-is.

-Bball

ChicagoJ
06-04-2004, 10:37 AM
We've covered a lot of these issues before, and I do lot of IP valuation work, so although I'm not on the 'infringement/ protection' side of the business I've got some experience here... I'm quite comfortable with the approach our admins and able have chosen.

Nobody has the rights to a combinaton of A, C, E, P, R, and S, such that, when assembled, spells Pacers.

We're probably not infringing on any IP owned by the Pacers. We'd be more likely to be in trouble for full articles copied in without a link or copywrite notice (so make sure you post that link).

Sports franchises aren't concerned about 'fan forums' - these are good for their business. How many threads have been on here where some of us have implored our fellow posters to buy more tickets? What's better than word-of-mouth advertsing?

Besides, Hicks, able, etc. aren't making any money on this, and oustide of April 1, we haven't done anything disparaging to the Pacers around here. :P This isn't www.mikebrownsucks.com , selling Mike Brown sucks t-shirts to both remaining Bengals fans, with a site logo that's close enough to the team's official logo to be confusing.

Will Galen
06-05-2004, 02:30 PM
We don't have to worry about trademark infringement. My letter didn't go though.

PacersInsider@Pacers.com
Persistent Transient Failure: Delivery time expired
Delivery last attempted at 4 Jun 2004 5:18:14 +0000

kerosene
06-05-2004, 02:34 PM
lol Will

Hicks
06-05-2004, 02:41 PM
We don't have to worry about trademark infringement. My letter didn't go though.

PacersInsider@Pacers.com
Persistent Transient Failure: Delivery time expired
Delivery last attempted at 4 Jun 2004 5:18:14 +0000

:laugh: