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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

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  • Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

    Hello all I have been lurking around on these boards for about 3 years now and have never really posted. I used to read the indystar one but when Hicks made this awhile back I decided to switch boards. In any case here are my thoughts.

    The Pacers will not trade for T-mac. I love the idea and I think the Pacers would be VERY good with him but I just don't see it happening. Look back at the big trades the Pacers have made in the past an you can get a good idea of the types of things Donnie likes to do. First of all, he usually makes a trade that none of us really even thought of and which involves unproven good players he has faith in. Look at the trade for Artest Miller and Mercer. None of them were superstars but 2 have already became allstars. What about Dale Davis or JO? All of indy was upset on that one! What about Antonio Davis for Bender <-- still unproven LOL. My point is Donnie Walsh doesn't trade for Superstars. He is a master at gettting great trades becuase of his ability to see talent right before it blosoms and then use it. Even the trade for Jalen Rose was simular. Now Maybe Bird will alter things a lot and I will be wrong but look for a trade that involves a shooting guard like Quintin Richardson that has yet to be a superstar. That is the type of player I am predicting we will go after.

    Other Thoughts:

    Bender - Much as I would like to see him get traded for something else he won't be traded. Walsh loves the kid and he will give him one more year to break out in the 6th man role becuase Harrington WILL be traded. Look for Bender to possibly be traded next year.

    Draft Picks - I would be shocked if we do a trade to trade up in the draft. We got a young veteran team and we don't really need drafts. It may happen as a filler to another trade though.

    Artest - I know someone of you HATE him but he continues to improve in offense and he is DPOY. He is NOT getting traded.

    Tinsely - It surprises me how many of you seem to think he will be traded. He won't. We won't get a better PG for the money we pay him while addressing our SG problem.

    But some of you are saying what about a BIG man????? We lost one with Brad and now we are struggling. While a big man is always nice foster has proved he can rebound and make the hustle plays. Why bring someone else in when you got him and in the east he will do. Look for us to worry about Big men next summer unless we get a SG for a steal and can use harrington to get a Dampier type player. Are worse need right now is a player who can create his own shot hit the 3 and streach the defense. When the defense is streached we are at our best. JO can slide over and play some minutes at center as well just like he did all year.

    SO I guess what I am saying is don't be disappointed if there isn't a trade for a superstar. He got 2 allstars right now and don't necessarily need a 3rd to win a championship but I believe we will get a player who WILL be an allstar in 2 to 3 years and he won't be a draft pick. I would be he has been in the league 3 to 5 years and will break out as a Pacers!! The question is who will it be??

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!



    Donnie & Larry will tinker unless he firmly believes that Artest, Harrington, and Bender must all play 30 minutes and that the small forward spot is the only logical place for each of the 3 to play.

    I agree that it is not in the historical pattern of behavior for Donnie to acquire a star.

    Who is the 'biggest name" DW has traded for (at least with a big name PRIOR to the trade)?

    Derrick McKey?
    Mark Jackson?
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

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    • #3
      Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

        I understand what you are saying about past trades and how they can help predict the future. Bird is the wildcard in that though. Also, I wonder if Donnie would alter his own path based on the experience from the last time we were in a similar position? A good argument could be made that we needed something done a little 'more' during our 94-99 years to put us over the top.

        We also are staring at a Detroit team that isn't likely to back up to us.

        You're probably right tho... at the end of the summer we will have a FA acquisition playing for the minimum and a trade for someone's bench player we hope is ready to start (or be a backup to Reggie and the 'heir apparent' ).

        Here's the $60,000.00 question: Does management have a championship as goal #1 or is staying competitive and making the playoffs goal #1?

        -Bball
        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

        ------

        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

        -John Wooden

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        • #5
          Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

          Here's the $60,000.00 question: Does management have a championship as goal #1 or is staying competitive and making the playoffs goal #1?

          -Bball
          I know that for Larry Bird it's the former; no way would he waste his time in this type of a job to just "be competitive". He's a winner, and wants to win again.

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          • #6
            Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

            Here's the $60,000.00 question: Does management have a championship as goal #1 or is staying competitive and making the playoffs goal #1?
            Donnie's got 3 years left with the Pacers...he wants to win a championship before his time is up with the team. Always has. That BS about him only trying to keep the team competitive is just that, BS. If it wasn't for Jordan and a few bad calls, I'm fairly confident the Pacers would have won at least one championship in the 90s. Donnie wants a ring, and you can bet your last dollar Bird won't settle for being merely competitive. His move to bring in Rick is indicative of that. Almost worked, too.

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            • #7
              Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

              My point is Donnie Walsh doesn't trade for Superstars. He is a master at getting great trades because of his ability to see talent right before it blosoms and then use it. Even the trade for Jalen Rose was simular. Now Maybe Bird will alter things a lot and I will be wrong but look for a trade that involves a shooting guard like Quintin Richardson that has yet to be a superstar. That is the type of player I am predicting we will go after.
              Great first post, PC. Welcome. I'd be happy as hell with Quentin Richardson, too.

              Imagine...

              Foster
              O'Neal
              Artest
              Richardson—24 years old, 6-5, 238 lbs. (2003-04: 36 min., 17.2 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 40 FG%, 35 3P%)
              Tinsley

              6th man: Fred Jones/Reggie Miller




              What excites me about getting someone of this caliber is that we saw what happened in game 4 when Croshere was effective at spreading the floor.

              Jason Richardson would be nice, too. My only concern in not getting McGrady is that one of our rivals would.

              Another thought: Where's our veteran leadership? This is a very young team.

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              • #8
                Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

                Hey if they pursued Quentin - I'M ALL FOR IT...I think the kid is gonna be an all-star.

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                • #9
                  Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

                  Donnie Walsh's past record doesn't matter any more. Larry Bird now makes the personnel decisions. All Donnie is is a consultant.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

                    Hey, welcome aboard! Hope you post regularly here, you seem to be a good poster .

                    I can certainly aggree on your analysis, except for one thing: the player we will acquire doesnt have to be a young rising star, but might be very well be a player in his peak or slowly going down. Those kind of players are a little older and could provide a lot of extra leadership, experience (even though for such a young squad we have already got a lot of that) and have that little extra game smartness. And Walsh has acquired those players just as young rising players TOO. Look at Mullin and Perkins for example.

                    Anyway if you want me to name a few players we might make a realistic run at (its always nice to speculate on such things):

                    1) Brent Barry (SEA)
                    2) Voshon Lenard (DEN)
                    3) Dajuan Wagner (CLE, if management thinks we can keep him healthy)
                    4) Trenton Hassell (MIN)
                    5) Quentin Richardson (LAC)
                    6) Cutino Mobley (HOU)

                    Some of these players had rumours "to the Pacers" in the past (notably Mobley, Barry and Wagner), but its all blind guessing right now.

                    I personally would like to add Hoiberg as a sniper just for flexibility, but you can only spent so much money and have so many slots for players on your roster .

                    Regards,

                    Mourning
                    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

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                    • #11
                      Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

                      Donnie Walsh's past record doesn't matter any more. Larry Bird now makes the personnel decisions. All Donnie is is a consultant.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

                        Donnie Walsh's past record doesn't matter any more. Larry Bird now makes the personnel decisions. All Donnie is is a consultant.
                        I don't know why it's so hard for you to believe Bird is in charge of personnel now. Who was it that fired Isiah? No other than Larry Bird.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

                          DW is awsome. I don't think there has ever been a better GM than DW, but one of these days someone has to realize that we need a superstar to win the title ... has the title ever been won by a team without one? Well, Detroit has a chance We need JO + Tmac or Allen, etc to win the title, especially in a small market.

                          Bottom line: no superstar, no title. Eventually someone (hopefully Bird) will realize this.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

                            Great first post PacerCrazy. I hope you post more often.

                            We know Walsh's history indicates he isn't likely to bring in a "Max contract" type player and I'm not sure Bird is the type to do so either. Did the Celtics teams Bird was on do any major trades? I don't remember but I thought they built from within. Bird strikes me as the kind of guy who won't totally dismantle what's working, creating 3 other weaknesses just to fill 1 weakness.

                            Now if a deal comes that would only cost us Al and Bender and we could get a superstar I think he would do it. I don't think management will trade Artest, JO or Tinsley. Everyone else is fair game, IMHO.
                            "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
                            - Benjamin Franklin

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                            • #15
                              Re: Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!

                              DW is awsome. I don't think there has ever been a better GM than DW, but one of these days someone has to realize that we need a superstar to win the title ... has the title ever been won by a team without one? Well, Detroit has a chance We need JO + Tmac or Allen, etc to win the title, especially in a small market.

                              Bottom line: no superstar, no title. Eventually someone (hopefully Bird) will realize this.
                              So Jermaine isn't a superstar? Last time I checked he was more impactful than T-Mac.
                              Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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