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View Full Version : Mark my Words!!! Pacers WILL NOT trade for T-Mac or Ray Allen!!!



PacerCrazy
06-03-2004, 02:29 PM
Hello all I have been lurking around on these boards for about 3 years now and have never really posted. I used to read the indystar one but when Hicks made this awhile back I decided to switch boards. In any case here are my thoughts.

The Pacers will not trade for T-mac. I love the idea and I think the Pacers would be VERY good with him but I just don't see it happening. Look back at the big trades the Pacers have made in the past an you can get a good idea of the types of things Donnie likes to do. First of all, he usually makes a trade that none of us really even thought of and which involves unproven good players he has faith in. Look at the trade for Artest Miller and Mercer. None of them were superstars but 2 have already became allstars. What about Dale Davis or JO? All of indy was upset on that one! What about Antonio Davis for Bender <-- still unproven LOL. My point is Donnie Walsh doesn't trade for Superstars. He is a master at gettting great trades becuase of his ability to see talent right before it blosoms and then use it. Even the trade for Jalen Rose was simular. Now Maybe Bird will alter things a lot and I will be wrong but look for a trade that involves a shooting guard like Quintin Richardson that has yet to be a superstar. That is the type of player I am predicting we will go after.

Other Thoughts:

Bender - Much as I would like to see him get traded for something else he won't be traded. Walsh loves the kid and he will give him one more year to break out in the 6th man role becuase Harrington WILL be traded. Look for Bender to possibly be traded next year.

Draft Picks - I would be shocked if we do a trade to trade up in the draft. We got a young veteran team and we don't really need drafts. It may happen as a filler to another trade though.

Artest - I know someone of you HATE him but he continues to improve in offense and he is DPOY. He is NOT getting traded.

Tinsely - It surprises me how many of you seem to think he will be traded. He won't. We won't get a better PG for the money we pay him while addressing our SG problem.

But some of you are saying what about a BIG man????? We lost one with Brad and now we are struggling. While a big man is always nice foster has proved he can rebound and make the hustle plays. Why bring someone else in when you got him and in the east he will do. Look for us to worry about Big men next summer unless we get a SG for a steal and can use harrington to get a Dampier type player. Are worse need right now is a player who can create his own shot hit the 3 and streach the defense. When the defense is streached we are at our best. JO can slide over and play some minutes at center as well just like he did all year.

SO I guess what I am saying is don't be disappointed if there isn't a trade for a superstar. He got 2 allstars right now and don't necessarily need a 3rd to win a championship but I believe we will get a player who WILL be an allstar in 2 to 3 years and he won't be a draft pick. I would be he has been in the league 3 to 5 years and will break out as a Pacers!! The question is who will it be??

Thoughts?

Slick Pinkham
06-03-2004, 02:37 PM
:welcome:

Donnie & Larry will tinker unless he firmly believes that Artest, Harrington, and Bender must all play 30 minutes and that the small forward spot is the only logical place for each of the 3 to play.

I agree that it is not in the historical pattern of behavior for Donnie to acquire a star.

Who is the 'biggest name" DW has traded for (at least with a big name PRIOR to the trade)?

Derrick McKey?
Mark Jackson?

Hicks
06-03-2004, 02:38 PM
:welcome:

Bball
06-03-2004, 02:40 PM
I understand what you are saying about past trades and how they can help predict the future. Bird is the wildcard in that though. Also, I wonder if Donnie would alter his own path based on the experience from the last time we were in a similar position? A good argument could be made that we needed something done a little 'more' during our 94-99 years to put us over the top.

We also are staring at a Detroit team that isn't likely to back up to us.

You're probably right tho... at the end of the summer we will have a FA acquisition playing for the minimum and a trade for someone's bench player we hope is ready to start (or be a backup to Reggie and the 'heir apparent' :().

Here's the $60,000.00 question: Does management have a championship as goal #1 or is staying competitive and making the playoffs goal #1?

-Bball

Hicks
06-03-2004, 02:46 PM
Here's the $60,000.00 question: Does management have a championship as goal #1 or is staying competitive and making the playoffs goal #1?

-Bball

I know that for Larry Bird it's the former; no way would he waste his time in this type of a job to just "be competitive". He's a winner, and wants to win again.

bulletproof
06-03-2004, 03:01 PM
Here's the $60,000.00 question: Does management have a championship as goal #1 or is staying competitive and making the playoffs goal #1?


Donnie's got 3 years left with the Pacers...he wants to win a championship before his time is up with the team. Always has. That BS about him only trying to keep the team competitive is just that, BS. If it wasn't for Jordan and a few bad calls, I'm fairly confident the Pacers would have won at least one championship in the 90s. Donnie wants a ring, and you can bet your last dollar Bird won't settle for being merely competitive. His move to bring in Rick is indicative of that. Almost worked, too.

bulletproof
06-03-2004, 03:42 PM
My point is Donnie Walsh doesn't trade for Superstars. He is a master at getting great trades because of his ability to see talent right before it blosoms and then use it. Even the trade for Jalen Rose was simular. Now Maybe Bird will alter things a lot and I will be wrong but look for a trade that involves a shooting guard like Quintin Richardson that has yet to be a superstar. That is the type of player I am predicting we will go after.

Great first post, PC. Welcome. I'd be happy as hell with Quentin Richardson, too.

Imagine...

Foster
O'Neal
Artest
Richardson—24 years old, 6-5, 238 lbs. (2003-04: 36 min., 17.2 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 40 FG%, 35 3P%)
Tinsley

6th man: Fred Jones/Reggie Miller

:drool:


What excites me about getting someone of this caliber is that we saw what happened in game 4 when Croshere was effective at spreading the floor.

Jason Richardson would be nice, too. My only concern in not getting McGrady is that one of our rivals would.

Another thought: Where's our veteran leadership? This is a very young team.

sweabs
06-03-2004, 03:49 PM
Hey if they pursued Quentin - I'M ALL FOR IT...I think the kid is gonna be an all-star.

Will Galen
06-03-2004, 03:50 PM
Donnie Walsh's past record doesn't matter any more. Larry Bird now makes the personnel decisions. All Donnie is is a consultant.

Mourning
06-03-2004, 03:55 PM
Hey, welcome aboard! Hope you post regularly here, you seem to be a good poster ;).

I can certainly aggree on your analysis, except for one thing: the player we will acquire doesnt have to be a young rising star, but might be very well be a player in his peak or slowly going down. Those kind of players are a little older and could provide a lot of extra leadership, experience (even though for such a young squad we have already got a lot of that) and have that little extra game smartness. And Walsh has acquired those players just as young rising players TOO. Look at Mullin and Perkins for example.

Anyway if you want me to name a few players we might make a realistic run at (its always nice to speculate on such things):

1) Brent Barry (SEA)
2) Voshon Lenard (DEN)
3) Dajuan Wagner (CLE, if management thinks we can keep him healthy)
4) Trenton Hassell (MIN)
5) Quentin Richardson (LAC)
6) Cutino Mobley (HOU)

Some of these players had rumours "to the Pacers" in the past (notably Mobley, Barry and Wagner), but its all blind guessing right now.

I personally would like to add Hoiberg as a sniper just for flexibility, but you can only spent so much money and have so many slots for players on your roster :rolleyes: .

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

bulletproof
06-03-2004, 03:56 PM
Donnie Walsh's past record doesn't matter any more. Larry Bird now makes the personnel decisions. All Donnie is is a consultant.

:lolchair:

Will Galen
06-03-2004, 04:03 PM
Donnie Walsh's past record doesn't matter any more. Larry Bird now makes the personnel decisions. All Donnie is is a consultant.

:lolchair:

I don't know why it's so hard for you to believe Bird is in charge of personnel now. Who was it that fired Isiah? No other than Larry Bird.

Steveman
06-03-2004, 04:09 PM
DW is awsome. I don't think there has ever been a better GM than DW, but one of these days someone has to realize that we need a superstar to win the title ... has the title ever been won by a team without one? Well, Detroit has a chance :laugh: We need JO + Tmac or Allen, etc to win the title, especially in a small market.

Bottom line: no superstar, no title. Eventually someone (hopefully Bird) will realize this.

fwpacerfan
06-03-2004, 04:41 PM
Great first post PacerCrazy. I hope you post more often.

We know Walsh's history indicates he isn't likely to bring in a "Max contract" type player and I'm not sure Bird is the type to do so either. Did the Celtics teams Bird was on do any major trades? I don't remember but I thought they built from within. Bird strikes me as the kind of guy who won't totally dismantle what's working, creating 3 other weaknesses just to fill 1 weakness.

Now if a deal comes that would only cost us Al and Bender and we could get a superstar I think he would do it. I don't think management will trade Artest, JO or Tinsley. Everyone else is fair game, IMHO.

Suaveness
06-03-2004, 04:43 PM
DW is awsome. I don't think there has ever been a better GM than DW, but one of these days someone has to realize that we need a superstar to win the title ... has the title ever been won by a team without one? Well, Detroit has a chance :laugh: We need JO + Tmac or Allen, etc to win the title, especially in a small market.

Bottom line: no superstar, no title. Eventually someone (hopefully Bird) will realize this.

So Jermaine isn't a superstar? Last time I checked he was more impactful than T-Mac.

ABADays
06-03-2004, 04:56 PM
Hicks, why would you say Larry is a whiner!?! Oh wait - that was winner! Never mind.

Hicks
06-03-2004, 05:11 PM
I don't remember but I thought they built from within.

I tought the Celtics got Parish and McHale via trades?

ChicagoJ
06-03-2004, 05:30 PM
I don't remember but I thought they built from within.

I tought the Celtics got Parish and McHale via trades?

Hell, it was *the same* trade - the Celtics drafted McHale with GSW's pick that was thrown into the Parish trade. And all it really cost the Celtics was to give up the right to draft Joe Barely Cares.

http://www.nba.com/history/season/19801981.html

Hicks
06-03-2004, 05:33 PM
I don't remember but I thought they built from within.

I tought the Celtics got Parish and McHale via trades?

Hell, it was *the same* trade - the Celtics drafted McHale with GSW's pick that was thrown into the Parish trade. And all it really cost the Celtics was to give up the right to draft Joe Barely Cares.

http://www.nba.com/history/season/19801981.html

Jesus Christ. What a ripoff.

fwpacerfan
06-03-2004, 05:49 PM
I don't remember but I thought they built from within.

I tought the Celtics got Parish and McHale via trades?

Hell, it was *the same* trade - the Celtics drafted McHale with GSW's pick that was thrown into the Parish trade. And all it really cost the Celtics was to give up the right to draft Joe Barely Cares.

http://www.nba.com/history/season/19801981.html

I thought DJ and Parish came via trade but I didn't know they got McHale for a song.

Steveman
06-04-2004, 12:13 AM
DW is awsome. I don't think there has ever been a better GM than DW, but one of these days someone has to realize that we need a superstar to win the title ... has the title ever been won by a team without one? Well, Detroit has a chance :laugh: We need JO + Tmac or Allen, etc to win the title, especially in a small market.

Bottom line: no superstar, no title. Eventually someone (hopefully Bird) will realize this.

So Jermaine isn't a superstar? Last time I checked he was more impactful than T-Mac. No, he isn't a superstar, just ask any casual fan in St. Louis :laugh: Jordan was, Bird was, Magic was, T Duncan is, the "other" O'Neal is, Kobe is, Wade WILL be, LeBron WILL be ... without this caliber of player you "ain't" going to win the title in a small market.

Suaveness
06-04-2004, 12:24 AM
DW is awsome. I don't think there has ever been a better GM than DW, but one of these days someone has to realize that we need a superstar to win the title ... has the title ever been won by a team without one? Well, Detroit has a chance :laugh: We need JO + Tmac or Allen, etc to win the title, especially in a small market.

Bottom line: no superstar, no title. Eventually someone (hopefully Bird) will realize this.

So Jermaine isn't a superstar? Last time I checked he was more impactful than T-Mac. No, he isn't a superstar, just ask any casual fan in St. Louis :laugh: Jordan was, Bird was, Magic was, T Duncan is, the "other" O'Neal is, Kobe is, Wade WILL be, LeBron WILL be ... without this caliber of player you "ain't" going to win the title in a small market.

So Garnett isn't either?

Steveman
06-04-2004, 12:35 AM
DW is awsome. I don't think there has ever been a better GM than DW, but one of these days someone has to realize that we need a superstar to win the title ... has the title ever been won by a team without one? Well, Detroit has a chance :laugh: We need JO + Tmac or Allen, etc to win the title, especially in a small market.

Bottom line: no superstar, no title. Eventually someone (hopefully Bird) will realize this.

So Jermaine isn't a superstar? Last time I checked he was more impactful than T-Mac. No, he isn't a superstar, just ask any casual fan in St. Louis :laugh: Jordan was, Bird was, Magic was, T Duncan is, the "other" O'Neal is, Kobe is, Wade WILL be, LeBron WILL be ... without this caliber of player you "ain't" going to win the title in a small market.

So Garnett isn't either?

It all depends on how you define what a superstar is, if it is defined as one who can put the entire team on his back and carry them to the finals, then no, he isn't either ... at least not yet ;)

Mourning
06-04-2004, 05:12 AM
Thats a rather limited perception of what constituted a superstar in my opinion :unimpressed: .

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

fwpacerfan
06-04-2004, 08:43 AM
DW is awsome. I don't think there has ever been a better GM than DW, but one of these days someone has to realize that we need a superstar to win the title ... has the title ever been won by a team without one? Well, Detroit has a chance :laugh: We need JO + Tmac or Allen, etc to win the title, especially in a small market.

Bottom line: no superstar, no title. Eventually someone (hopefully Bird) will realize this.

So Jermaine isn't a superstar? Last time I checked he was more impactful than T-Mac. No, he isn't a superstar, just ask any casual fan in St. Louis :laugh: Jordan was, Bird was, Magic was, T Duncan is, the "other" O'Neal is, Kobe is, Wade WILL be, LeBron WILL be ... without this caliber of player you "ain't" going to win the title in a small market.

So what constitutes a 'Superstar' is someone the casual fan in St. Louis has heard of?

Suaveness
06-04-2004, 09:00 AM
DW is awsome. I don't think there has ever been a better GM than DW, but one of these days someone has to realize that we need a superstar to win the title ... has the title ever been won by a team without one? Well, Detroit has a chance :laugh: We need JO + Tmac or Allen, etc to win the title, especially in a small market.

Bottom line: no superstar, no title. Eventually someone (hopefully Bird) will realize this.

So Jermaine isn't a superstar? Last time I checked he was more impactful than T-Mac. No, he isn't a superstar, just ask any casual fan in St. Louis :laugh: Jordan was, Bird was, Magic was, T Duncan is, the "other" O'Neal is, Kobe is, Wade WILL be, LeBron WILL be ... without this caliber of player you "ain't" going to win the title in a small market.

So Garnett isn't either?

It all depends on how you define what a superstar is, if it is defined as one who can put the entire team on his back and carry them to the finals, then no, he isn't either ... at least not yet ;)

I don't think going to the finals constitutes being a superstar. The ability to carry the team on your back is, and that is shown in the regular season too. And KG and JO have done that.

ChicagoJ
06-04-2004, 11:21 AM
First of all, who cares about the regular season?

But after this year's playoffs, I don't agree with the assertion that JO cannot carry a team on his back in the playoffs (although its a little heavy with a bruised knee.) Just because he hasn't carried the Pacers to The Finals yet doesn't mean it won't happen very soon.

IMO, when JO was facing Miami's constant quadruple-teams and swarming defense, he carried that team on his back because of his ability to make life easy for Ron, Jeff, Reggie and Jamaal. He was on his way to repeating that during game #4 of the Detroit series, before the injured knee began to stiffen up.