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MagicRat
01-28-2004, 11:39 PM
During the pre-game show, Boyle and Kevin Lee were talking about the NY-PHX trade. He said he didn't think that Marbury was a good player, mentioning that he had lost with Garnett and Gugliotta (back when he was good) with Minnesota, NJ didn't win until he left and Phoenix wasn't good with him, either. Also noted the draft pick PHX received, some Euro who is supposed to be good, and the salary cap relief from the trade.

Then he says (paraphrasing): You know, if you think about it, Isiah Thomas has made two teams better in the last couple of months. The Pacers by leaving and the Suns by doing this trade.

:laugh:

I had trouble explaining to my son what was so funny......

Suaveness
01-29-2004, 12:25 AM
:laugh:

Natston
01-29-2004, 01:22 AM
As much as I like Mark, the past means nada. So what if Marbury has been a "loser" where ever he has been. Peyton Manning couldn't win a playoff game because his team couldn't win.

Natston
01-29-2004, 01:26 AM
As much as I like Mark, the past means nada. So what if Marbury has been a "loser" where ever he has been. Peyton Manning couldn't win a playoff game because his team couldn't win.

Football and basketball are significantly different in terms of one person being able to carry a team singlehandedly. You still need a bunch of help in bball, but with only 4 other guys on the court on your team, you don't rely on nearly as many people operating in unison. And Marbury has played with talented teamates before. He's just never understood how to play WITH them.

I wasn't really trying to compare basketball and football. I was just pointing out that previous experiences never prove the future. They might help lay the foundwork but not much more... :mango:

Natston
01-29-2004, 01:31 AM
As much as I like Mark, the past means nada. So what if Marbury has been a "loser" where ever he has been. Peyton Manning couldn't win a playoff game because his team couldn't win.

Football and basketball are significantly different in terms of one person being able to carry a team singlehandedly. You still need a bunch of help in bball, but with only 4 other guys on the court on your team, you don't rely on nearly as many people operating in unison. And Marbury has played with talented teamates before. He's just never understood how to play WITH them.

I wasn't really trying to compare basketball and football. I was just pointing out that previous experiences never prove the future. They might help lay the foundwork but not much more... :mango:

Yep. It's just strange how much better, tonight excluded, the Suns have played since they dumped him.

They should have been playing this way since the season started with or without Marbury. :cool:

Natston
01-29-2004, 01:36 AM
As much as I like Mark, the past means nada. So what if Marbury has been a "loser" where ever he has been. Peyton Manning couldn't win a playoff game because his team couldn't win.

Football and basketball are significantly different in terms of one person being able to carry a team singlehandedly. You still need a bunch of help in bball, but with only 4 other guys on the court on your team, you don't rely on nearly as many people operating in unison. And Marbury has played with talented teamates before. He's just never understood how to play WITH them.

I wasn't really trying to compare basketball and football. I was just pointing out that previous experiences never prove the future. They might help lay the foundwork but not much more... :mango:

Yep. It's just strange how much better, tonight excluded, the Suns have played since they dumped him.

They should have been playing this way since the season started with or without Marbury. :cool:

With the style they've been playing recently, it's not a coincidence that they're finally winning games without him.

But they did have some serious talent before the trade and still do after the trade.

Anthem
01-29-2004, 01:46 AM
You don't think Thomas has made New York better?

indygeezer
01-29-2004, 07:28 AM
During the pre-game show, Boyle and Kevin Lee were talking about the NY-PHX trade. He said he didn't think that Marbury was a good player, mentioning that he had lost with Garnett and Gugliotta (back when he was good) with Minnesota, NJ didn't win until he left and Phoenix wasn't good with him, either. Also noted the draft pick PHX received, some Euro who is supposed to be good, and the salary cap relief from the trade.

Then he says (paraphrasing): You know, if you think about it, Isiah Thomas has made two teams better in the last couple of months. The Pacers by leaving and the Suns by doing this trade.

:laugh:

I had trouble explaining to my son what was so funny......

He actually said that!?!?!?!???? :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: and I missed it :(

Unclebuck
01-29-2004, 07:52 AM
Well now we know what Mark and Slick think about Isiah. We remember Slick's comments when Isiah was fired, and I heard and or read Mark's critical comments before now, but they both seem to have a disdain for Thomas.

fwpacerfan
01-29-2004, 07:54 AM
As much as I like Mark, the past means nada. So what if Marbury has been a "loser" where ever he has been. Peyton Manning couldn't win a playoff game because his team couldn't win.

Football and basketball are significantly different in terms of one person being able to carry a team singlehandedly. You still need a bunch of help in bball, but with only 4 other guys on the court on your team, you don't rely on nearly as many people operating in unison. And Marbury has played with talented teamates before. He's just never understood how to play WITH them.

I wasn't really trying to compare basketball and football. I was just pointing out that previous experiences never prove the future. They might help lay the foundwork but not much more... :mango:

Yep. It's just strange how much better, tonight excluded, the Suns have played since they dumped him.

It's also coincidental that Minnesota and NJ also got better once Marbury left. Maybe it's happenstance and maybe it's not. I think Marbury has been a reason his team's have failed but not the sole reason. I think he has a chance to make things right in NY and he may very well do so. If he continues to get other people involved and not focus on his own stats and if he keeps from being a cancer in the lockeroom then I think he will make the Knicks formidable in the very near future.

sixthman
01-29-2004, 10:13 AM
It could be the Marbury trade was one of those deals that was good for both teams.

The Knicks, hopelessly above the cap, get an all-star guard who is just reaching his peak as a player, and the Suns get a lot of young talent and cap space to build for the future.

Phoenix is one of the worst teams in basketball right now and their owners don't care. Like Denver last year, they want the best possible draft pick this coming summer and the financial flexibility they now have to rebuild.

Kegboy
01-29-2004, 12:30 PM
You don't think Thomas has made New York better?

Exactly. I still think NY could very well catch NJ before the season's out.

Anthem
01-30-2004, 02:30 AM
I don't want to get into it too much right now, but I can't say how disgusted this thread makes me. That was totally classless of Boyle.

One of the big reasons I've always liked the Pacers is that the entire organization, along with everyone associated with them, has been a classy person. This was just stupid and unnecessary.

I'll be the first to say Thomas wasn't the best coach. But he did a lot of good things, held the team together while rebuilding, and now has gone to NY and done a great job. Clap for the guy and let him go on his way. Going out of your way to say bad things about him, especially when they're not true, gets you no karma points in my book.

This disgusts me.

Hicks
01-30-2004, 08:05 AM
I don't want to get into it too much right now, but I can't say how disgusted this thread makes me. That was totally classless of Boyle.

One of the big reasons I've always liked the Pacers is that the entire organization, along with everyone associated with them, has been a classy person. This was just stupid and unnecessary.

I'll be the first to say Thomas wasn't the best coach. But he did a lot of good things, held the team together while rebuilding, and now has gone to NY and done a great job. Clap for the guy and let him go on his way. Going out of your way to say bad things about him, especially when they're not true, gets you no karma points in my book.

This disgusts me.

What was classless or untrue about saying the Isiah leaving made the Pacers better? If he didn't, we don't pick up Carlisle. I'd say we're better off. Even if you think Isiah was a great coach, you can't honestly think Rick's still not better. So yeah, Isiah leaving did make us better, inadvertently.

Hoop
01-30-2004, 03:31 PM
I don't want to get into it too much right now, but I can't say how disgusted this thread makes me. That was totally classless of Boyle.

One of the big reasons I've always liked the Pacers is that the entire organization, along with everyone associated with them, has been a classy person. This was just stupid and unnecessary.

I'll be the first to say Thomas wasn't the best coach. But he did a lot of good things, held the team together while rebuilding, and now has gone to NY and done a great job. Clap for the guy and let him go on his way. Going out of your way to say bad things about him, especially when they're not true, gets you no karma points in my book.

This disgusts me.

Boyle and Slick rarely say anything bad about anyone, so IMO where their is smoke there is fire. Isiah has rubbed lots of people the wrong way and made enemys all around the league his whole career. He is well known to be a 2 faced back stabbing liar, so ***** him.

Unclebuck
01-30-2004, 04:15 PM
I hesitate to mention this because it is a very minor point, and on things that matter, a coaches radio show does not even make the list.

But I listen to the Rick Carlisle show every week as I did the Isiah Thomas show in year past.

Isiah was late about 50% of the time, often 20 - 30 minutes late. 2 or 3 times he did not show up or call in at all. And you could tell that Kevin Lee and or Mark Boyle expected Isiah to be calling.

Carlisle has not missed a show, he has not been late one minute.

Often times with Isiah a caller would call in with an obviously stupid question or comment. Isiah was often times only borderline polite. Rick is always very polite and usually has a very good response that does not make the caller feel stupid in the least.

And when a caller called in to criticize or question Isiah about some of his coaching decisions, Isiah would often pull rank on the caller. Putting the caller down.

When a caller questions Rick about his decisions, Rick calmly explains what went into his decision and on a few occassions Rick has agreed with the caller and said yes we should have done things differently.


Does any of this really matter, NO, if Isiah coached liked Rick, I couldn't care less how Isiah acted on his radio show.

ChicagoJ
01-30-2004, 04:27 PM
I hesitate to mention this because it is a very minor point, and on things that matter, a coaches radio show does not even make the list.

But I listen to the Rick Carlisle show every week as I did the Isiah Thomas show in year past.

Isiah was late about 50% of the time, often 20 - 30 minutes late. 2 or 3 times he did not show up or call in at all. And you could tell that Kevin Lee and or Mark Boyle expected Isiah to be calling.

Carlisle has not missed a show, he has not been late one minute.

Often times with Isiah a caller would call in with an obviously stupid question or comment. Isiah was often times only borderline polite. Rick is always very polite and usually has a very good response that does not make the caller feel stupid in the least.

And when a caller called in to criticize or question Isiah about some of his coaching decisions, Isiah would often pull rank on the caller. Putting the caller down.

When a caller questions Rick about his decisions, Rick calmly explains what went into his decision and on a few occassions Rick has agreed with the caller and said yes we should have done things differently.


Does any of this really matter, NO, if Isiah coached liked Rick, I couldn't care less how Isiah acted on his radio show.


Having said all that - its the media's job to conduct interviews, gather information, etc. Thier criteria for who they "like" is much different than ours, as fans. We like coaches and players that (1) are successful; and (2) represent our city well in things like civic and charity contributions, etc.

Members of the media usually have this criteria: is the person accessible, and, when I talk to them do I get something I can use in an article, soundbite, etc.?

They're human, sometimes thier bias comes out even when it shouldn't. It sounds like Isiah made life difficult for Boyle and Kevin Lee from time-to-time. Bottom line, I really agree with UB's "so what" and Hoop's assessment that when Boyle is critical of someone/ something, he has the credibility that he should be - at least - taken at face value.

Anthem, I can understand your point, but I hold Mark in pretty high regard so I'll let this one go...