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TheSauceMaster
06-02-2004, 02:17 AM
Why are some ready to sell there souls for Tmac ?

We don't need a Tmac we need a Solid SG , yes Tmac would be nice but there are other good options for SG this summer and if it means we give up Ron Artest...NO way in HELL!!!

Ron Artest and Jermaine O'Neal are the type of Players you build a Championship around and Tinsley is a Keeper Also.

Anthem
06-02-2004, 02:32 AM
I wouldn't give up Ron, but I would give Harrington and Bender. Orlando would have to offer more than TMac before I'd include Tinsley or Jones.

Steveman
06-02-2004, 02:50 AM
I like Ron's game, I really do, but I don't think Ron is a good fit on this team. He doesn't get along well with the coaching staff and his teammates don't understand him. He isn't smart offensively and tries to take over the game when JO is supposed to be "the man". So, if we can get a prolific outside scorer for him ... so be it.

T-Mac fits because:
1) He is a prolific scorer.
2) He will open up the inside for JO so he can be "the man" and raise hell in there.
3) He and JO are good friends (chemistry).

Hicks
06-02-2004, 02:58 AM
Why? Because I truly believe JO + T-Mac = Rings.

beast23
06-02-2004, 03:04 AM
He doesn't get along well with the coaching staff...

Not true. Bird and Carlisle have said nothing but positive things about Artest all season long. I also know individuals with close ties to the Pacers and the locker room who disagree.

He isn't smart offensively and tries to take over the game when JO is supposed to be "the man".

I wouldn't agree with that. Although I will say that Artest, JO and Al have all been somewhat selfish at times this season. But at times, Ron has not only tried to take over a game, he has exceeded. He has dominated on the defensive end, that's for certain. Offensively, there have been times that he has actually taken over and overpowered his defender, "willing" his team to win.

The Pacers would be nuts not to investigate what it might take to get McGrady. But they will NOT sacrifice Artest or O'Neal to get it done. Not many teams would be willing to sacrifice their offensive and defensive cornerstones.... those are the folks that you build a team around..... not sacrifice to obtain another player.

sweabs
06-02-2004, 09:15 AM
We don't need a Tmac we need a Solid SG , yes Tmac would be nice but there are other good options for SG this summer and if it means we give up Ron Artest...NO way in HELL!!!

Well said - we can't give up Artest in the offseason...that is a must. If we are able to bring in a good SG who can create - and they don't have to be the Tracy McGrady's or the Kobe Bryants...just a good shooting guard then we are fine. But Artest and JO are who you keep.

Dukins
06-02-2004, 09:43 AM
I am a big big fan of getting T-Mac here. I dont think giving up the team is the answer though. If we could get some athletic player or someone who could create there own shot. I we had to trade Artest, Fred wouldnt be a bad defensive stopper. IMO JO, Tinsley and Reg is the only ones safe. Ill keep saying it until im blue in the face. We cant cringe everytime some adversity comes to the team and have to worry about if Artest is going to fly off the deepend. Especially in such a critical part of a game or series. Too many mysteries.

LAPacer
06-02-2004, 10:09 AM
If it happens, the Pacers would have the poor mans version of Shaq and Kobe. TMac would be a great fit. I think if TMac were a Laker he would be the one being compared to MJ.

ABADays
06-02-2004, 10:55 AM
If only he cared to play defense like MJ.

Zesty
06-02-2004, 10:59 AM
I think he's got the size and strength to be a good defensive player, and I think under Carlisle he'd improve greatly in that regard.

LAPacer
06-02-2004, 11:01 AM
TMac was a defensive specialist when he played underneath Vince's shadow in Toronto. He did a good job of it too.

75Ranger
06-02-2004, 11:02 AM
Going into this series against the piston everybody knew we lacked shooters and creative scorers, and by the way we played against the pistons is obvious there is going to have to be some changes to the roster to balance it out.

Honestly I think Ray Allen would be the perfect fit for this team. I know many would like Fred Jones to start out at guard.Im sure we would win 50 games but is keeping the roster intact going to give us a shot to win a championship. I don't think so.

I think we need to have a better second option on the offensive end then Artest to win a championship. This is in no way diss towards Artest, he had a great year and may be the most important player on the team but at this point in his career hes not an elite offensive player and you need a player like that to win a title. So if T-mac, or Allen become available we have to make an effort to aquire them.

TheSauceMaster
06-02-2004, 11:05 AM
Tmac wont score 28 ppg if he comes to Indy, won't be the only offense we have , but he would help take the load off tinsley and tinsley could focus more on running the team rather than scoring .

I will stand by my statement in trading ron would be a bad bad mistake.

Doug
06-02-2004, 12:04 PM
In the "It Will Never Happen, but I Can Dream, Can't I" category:

Indiana trades:
PG Fred Jones (4.9 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 18.6 minutes)
PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 30.9 minutes)
PF Austin Croshere (5.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 13.7 minutes)

Indiana receives:
C Steven Hunter (3.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 13.4 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (28.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 39.9 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +8.0 ppg, -2.3 rpg, and +1.2 apg.

Orlando trades:
C Steven Hunter (3.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 13.4 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (28.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 39.9 minutes)

Orlando receives:
PG Fred Jones (4.9 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 81 games)
PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 79 games)
PF Austin Croshere (5.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 77 games)

Change in team outlook: -8.0 ppg, +2.3 rpg, and -1.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

bulletproof
06-02-2004, 12:25 PM
We don't need a Tmac we need a Solid SG , yes Tmac would be nice but there are other good options for SG this summer and if it means we give up Ron Artest...NO way in HELL!!!

Well said - we can't give up Artest in the offseason...that is a must. If we are able to bring in a good SG who can create - and they don't have to be the Tracy McGrady's or the Kobe Bryants...just a good shooting guard then we are fine. But Artest and JO are who you keep.

Yet, if by chance Detroit were able to obtain McGrady, a lot people here (you know who you are) would concede next season to the Pistons, not to mention the press.

Hicks
06-02-2004, 12:34 PM
I think he's got the size and strength to be a good defensive player, and I think under Carlisle he'd improve greatly in that regard.

So do I. I think at worst he'd be an average defender, at best a pretty good one. Carlisle and staff got TINSLEY to start playing D, I'm sure they can get a 6'8" SG with length and quickness to figure it out (assuming he doesn't already know).

Snickers
06-02-2004, 12:46 PM
This is a team, that minus a couple key injuries and a few bad breaks, is in the finals. 61 wins, swept the first round, won 4-2 in the second round, and lost in 6 to an excellent and determined Detroit team.

This is a damned good team. And Ron is a huge part of it.

That said, I would have to think about Tmac-Artest for a while. :neutral:

The Good:
-Not many teams can claim to have two legitimate MVP-caliber players.
-We'd instantly be the favourites in the East, as we were for none of this season, when we had the best record in the league for pretty much the entire time.
-We'd have the best inside-outside offensive combo this side of LA.
-We'd have a guard who could create his own shot, as much as we needed him to.
-In this series, Ron was frustrated and frustrating. These 6 games were the most important so far in his career.

The Bad:
-Tmac hasn't proven to be a great crunch-time player. [has he?]
-Tmac is a household name, and there's always a risk of those causing chemistry problems when they go to a team where they get fewer touches.
-This team, the way it is now, will be back in ECF next year. And probably for several years to come. While Tmac could be the piece that would get us over the hump, that's a big risk to take.
-Tmac's lazy eye scares me.

I wouldn't jump on it immediately, but I think it's definitely something to think about.

TheSauceMaster
06-02-2004, 12:48 PM
Yeah but is Tmac offically on the Market ? Nope he is undecided and if the Magic can bring some players in the Tmac Stays ..so we can speculate Tmac all day but the Reality he leaves is slim at best right now and I think he said his first choice was houston , and a few others Indiana and Detriot are like 4-5 options

Snickers
06-02-2004, 12:51 PM
Yeah but is Tmac offically on the Market ? Nope he is undecided and if the Magic can bring some players in the Tmac Stays ..so we can speculate Tmac all day but the Reality he leaves is slim at best right now and I think he said his first choice was houston , and a few others Indiana and Detriot are like 4-5 options

Yeah, I'd be sincerely surprised if we have a legitimate shot at him. Besides, I'm not sure Orlando thinks as highly of Ronnie as we Pacer fans do.

TheSauceMaster
06-02-2004, 12:54 PM
Well I don't think if Houston has the Chance they would Pass up Tmac ,I think him coming to the Pacers is probably low on the List ...that's just being Honest.

Zesty
06-02-2004, 01:08 PM
My biggest reservation with trading ANYONE for McGrady is whether or not he'd stick around after the season was over. If I'm not mistaken, he has a player option on his contract for the two seasons after this upcoming season, which is why Orlando is rumored to be trading him in the first place (rather than risk losing him next summer with no compensation at all). I might shoot myself if we were to trade any of Al/JB/Artest/Jones for McGrady and then he walked at the end of the season.

I also think if he came in here and we got to the Finals, he'd feel like sticking around (much like the 'Sheed situation in Detroit).

TheSauceMaster
06-02-2004, 01:10 PM
2005/06 he has a player option

and those are alot of Big If's there zesty :laugh:

Unclebuck
06-02-2004, 01:18 PM
I would trade Jones, Bender and Al for T-Mac.

If I were the Magic I would do that deal, they aren't going to get anything better. it is a gamble for the pacers, T-Mac has had back trouble, and if he were toi get injured, Pacers would be selling their future.

But the idea of having Tinsley, McGrady, Artest, J.O and Foster in the starting lineup would be way to good to pass up.

TheSauceMaster
06-02-2004, 01:22 PM
We know Ron is tough as Nails , how many people come back after 5 games with the surgery Ron had ? he was shooting on the Practice court 72 hours after surgery , if that's not a guy who is tough as nails , I dunno what is .

Dukins
06-02-2004, 01:28 PM
T-Mac is only 25 yrs old with given the right time could be the 1-2 punch needed to get over the hump at the SG position. No one is questioning Ron's heart, its his mental lapses at crucial times. WE have no clue what Ron is going to do in any given night. The same cant be said for TMAC we know what we are getting everynight. Also what better exposure on TV and nationwide than having a human highlight film in TMAC. I dont know but i like the idea of seeing them nationwide more often.

PaceBalls
06-02-2004, 01:46 PM
After my initial outbursts on Tmac, I think I agree with UB on this, Jones Bender or AL or all 3 for Tmac is ok. Tmac is a great scorer, maybe he wouldnt be such a whiney heartless loser on a good team.
I just wonder... when push comes to shove with the kid. Will be a warrior like Tinsley? Like JO? or will he sob about his sore knee on the bench?

He did win the scoring title the last few years...

I still think Artest is a better player over all, and has a much better contract. He is the best bargain in the NBA. It would be a disaster to give him up.

TheSauceMaster
06-02-2004, 01:54 PM
yes ron is locked up at a cheap rate with us for a several years , I think ron is worth the risk his outburst aren't as bad as last year and he cleaned up his act alot this year.

You could have Argued the Same about Dennis Rodman but Guess what Teams like Detriot , Bulls and the Lakers took the Chance for his Defensive Skills . If Acted anything like the previous hell year ... then I think you have to trade him , but if you trade him you just robbing you defensive team for more offense ...so basically you robbing peter to pay paul and we all know that doesn't work in the longrun.

75Ranger
06-02-2004, 05:07 PM
But the idea of having Tinsley, McGrady, Artest, J.O and Foster in the starting lineup would be way to good to pass up.

In reality it would seem to good to pass up. Also I would love to see T-mac, or Ray Allen in a pacer uniform but if you get one of those two players they would automatically become option 1 or 2. Artest would be the 3rd option. Could Artest handle that? Now Allen doesn't have the ball in his hands as much as T-Mac , and because of that Artest would fit better with Allen then T-mac. T-Mac controls the ball on the offensive end much like Ron does already, I just don't think Ron will be happy being the 3rd option every night and I don't see them fitting in together unless Ron realizes it would be better for the team and judging by his comments in the past it seems like they should run the offense through him more not less.

I also believe to get a top level guard like many of us want were going to have to trade Artest. Orlando and Seattle aint giving up there big guns for 3 bench playes, even though they do have upside.Artest and a filler in my oppinion is a fair trade. Al, Freddie and JB for a star/superstar isn't unless of course someone just wants to dump there star on us like the Wallace to Detroit deal. You may be willing to trade Al for somebody like Wally Szczerbiak,Cuttino Mobely or a Mike Dunlevey. While niether one of these players are stars they help balance the team out with there outside shooting, they'll get you 15pts a game. Don't get me wrong I want Ray Allen or T-mac here. This team need to aquire a player who can get a shot whenever he want and score in a variety of ways. Its a must if we want to seriously win a title not just get to the ecf or finals. I just don't see it happening unless we trade Ron.

Shade
06-02-2004, 06:04 PM
C - Foster/Pollard/Brezec
PF - O'Neal/Croshere
SF - Artest/JJones
SG - McGrady/Miller
PG - Tinsley/Johnson/Brewer

Awesome starting 5, but a pretty weak bench. Should we do it?

TheSauceMaster
06-02-2004, 06:15 PM
I'll stick by my original comments , we don't need Tmac ...way to many affordable options on the market and Tmac isn't on the market til he gives his decision so it's all really a big dream that I would bet will never happen. If Tmac leaves I think Detriot or Indiana is his last Option.

I think Tmac has too much of a Ego to be a Pacer