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View Full Version : Pacers vs. Pistons Post-Game Thread: Haven't we seen this all before?



Shade
01-29-2008, 09:23 PM
You'd think the law of averages would state that we're supposed to actually WIN one of these close games at some point. Must still be paying for the Reggie era heroics.

Oh, and I still hate the Pistons with the passion of a million exploding suns.

On the bright side, we now have the 11th pick in our possession. :sunshine:

Doddage
01-29-2008, 09:26 PM
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr align="center"><td> http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nba/teams/20080123/80x60/det.gif (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/det) (32-13)
</td> <td width="370"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="ysptblbdr2"> <table class="ysptblclbg3" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="ysptblbdr2"><td colspan="15" height="1"></td></tr> <tr align="center" bgcolor="#dedec6"> <td rowspan="5" class="ysptblbdr2" width="1"></td> <td height="18" width="10"></td> <td></td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores" width="25">1</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores" width="25">2</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores" width="25">3</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores" width="25">4</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores total" align="right" width="35">Total</td> <td class="yspscores" width="65"></td> <td rowspan="5" class="ysptblbdr2" width="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="yspwhitebg"><td colspan="13" height="1"></td></tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="center"> <td height="23" width="10">http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/gr/or_arrow.gif</td> <td class="yspscores team" align="left"> Detroit (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/det) </td> <td class="yspscores">23</td> <td class="yspscores">36</td> <td class="yspscores">24</td> <td class="yspscores">27</td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right"> 110 </td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right">Final </td> </tr> <tr class="yspwhitebg"> <td colspan="2"></td> <td colspan="8" height="1"></td> <td colspan="2" class="ysptblclbg6"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="center"> <td height="23" width="10"></td> <td class="yspscores team" align="left"> Indiana (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/ind) </td> <td class="yspscores">32</td> <td class="yspscores">25</td> <td class="yspscores">21</td> <td class="yspscores">26</td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right"> 104 </td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr2"> <td colspan="15" height="1"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td> http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nba/teams/20080123/80x60/ind.gif (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/ind) (19-27)
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" height="7"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td height="7"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="stats" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"> <td colspan="16" class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> Detroit </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl player" align="left" height="18" width="17%"> Name</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%"></td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Min</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">FG</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">3Pt</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">FT</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">+/-</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Off</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Reb</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Ast</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">TO</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Stl</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">BS</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">BA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Pts </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> R. Hamilton (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3330)</td> <td class="player"> G </td> <td>38:17</td> <td>6-18</td> <td>1-2</td> <td>2-2</td> <td> -2 </td> <td>1</td> <td>6</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>15 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> C. Billups (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3174)</td> <td class="player"> G </td> <td>34:29</td> <td>4-8</td> <td>2-3</td> <td>3-3</td> <td> +5 </td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>8</td> <td>2</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>13 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> R. Wallace (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3006)</td> <td class="player"> C </td> <td>32:48</td> <td>10-18</td> <td>1-5</td> <td>3-4</td> <td> -1 </td> <td>2</td> <td>10</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>24 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> T. Prince (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3621)</td> <td class="player"> F </td> <td>32:33</td> <td>6-13</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>5-6</td> <td> +2 </td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>17 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> A. McDyess (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3004)</td> <td class="player"> F </td> <td>31:34</td> <td>4-8</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>2-4</td> <td> +2 </td> <td>6</td> <td>13</td> <td>5</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>10 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> J. Maxiell (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3952)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>17:10</td> <td>1-3</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>1-2</td> <td> +1 </td> <td>2</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>3 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> J. Hayes (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3713)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>15:46</td> <td>5-6</td> <td>2-3</td> <td>1-2</td> <td> +6 </td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>13 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> A. Johnson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3982)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>13:50</td> <td>3-4</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> +8 </td> <td>3</td> <td>6</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>6 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> R. Stuckey (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4293)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>13:30</td> <td>3-5</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>1-4</td> <td> +1 </td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>7 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> A. Afflalo (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4305)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>10:00</td> <td>0-2</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>2-2</td> <td> +8 </td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> P. Brezec (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3426)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td class="dnp" colspan="14" align="center">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> W. Herrmann (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4207)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td class="dnp" colspan="14" align="center">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr3"> <td colspan="16" height="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="right"> <td class="sum" align="left" height="18"> Totals</td> <td></td> <td></td> <td>42-85</td> <td>6-14</td> <td>20-29</td> <td></td> <td>17</td> <td>48</td> <td>22</td> <td>10</td> <td>7</td> <td>7</td> <td>5</td> <td>16</td> <td>110 </td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td class="sum" align="left" height="18"> Percentages:</td> <td colspan="2"></td> <td>.494</td> <td>.429</td> <td>.690</td> <td></td> <td colspan="9" class="team-rebounds" align="left">Team Rebounds: 6 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td height="7"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="stats" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"> <td colspan="16" class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> Indiana </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl player" align="left" height="18" width="17%"> Name</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%"></td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Min</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">FG</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">3Pt</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">FT</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">+/-</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Off</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Reb</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Ast</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">TO</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Stl</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">BS</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">BA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Pts </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> D. Granger (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3943)</td> <td class="player"> G </td> <td>39:16</td> <td>5-15</td> <td>0-4</td> <td>6-6</td> <td> -11 </td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>4</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>16 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> T. Diener (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3964)</td> <td class="player"> G </td> <td>36:58</td> <td>6-10</td> <td>3-6</td> <td>3-4</td> <td> -4 </td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>2</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>5</td> <td>18 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> J. Foster (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3344)</td> <td class="player"> C </td> <td>36:34</td> <td>5-8</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>1-4</td> <td> +6 </td> <td>6</td> <td>13</td> <td>3</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>11 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> M. Dunleavy (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3601)</td> <td class="player"> F </td> <td>40:45</td> <td>9-15</td> <td>4-4</td> <td>3-3</td> <td> +8 </td> <td>1</td> <td>7</td> <td>7</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>25 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> T. Murphy (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3524)</td> <td class="player"> F </td> <td>29:05</td> <td>5-10</td> <td>1-3</td> <td>7-7</td> <td> +10 </td> <td>1</td> <td>8</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>18 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> K. Rush (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3618)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>29:29</td> <td>3-9</td> <td>3-5</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> -11 </td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>9 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> A. Owens (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4048)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>9:04</td> <td>0-2</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> -2 </td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> M. Daniels (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3764)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>7:26</td> <td>2-5</td> <td>1-1</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> -3 </td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>5 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> S. Williams (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4145)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>7:19</td> <td>1-2</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>0-2</td> <td> -15 </td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> D. Harrison (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3846)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>3:41</td> <td>0-2</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> -6 </td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> S. Graham (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4012)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>0:19</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> -2 </td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> I. Diogu (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3935)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td class="dnp" colspan="14" align="center">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr3"> <td colspan="16" height="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="right"> <td class="sum" align="left" height="18"> Totals</td> <td></td> <td></td> <td>36-78</td> <td>12-24</td> <td>20-26</td> <td></td> <td>11</td> <td>40</td> <td>25</td> <td>13</td> <td>7</td> <td>5</td> <td>7</td> <td>22</td> <td>104 </td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td class="sum" align="left" height="18"> Percentages:</td> <td colspan="2"></td> <td>.462</td> <td>.500</td> <td>.769</td> <td></td> <td colspan="9" class="team-rebounds" align="left">Team Rebounds: 6 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td height="7"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"> <td class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> Game Info</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="yspnotice"> Technical Fouls: None</td></tr></tbody></table>

Shade
01-29-2008, 09:28 PM
I can't believe that Graham couldn't produce in that 19 seconds of floor time. What a scrub.

Kstat
01-29-2008, 09:28 PM
Oh, and I still hate the Pistons with the passion of a million exploding suns.


:buddies:

Kofi
01-29-2008, 09:29 PM
I haven't checked the standings today, but with this loss and wins by a couple of other teams, our draft pick will jump up 4 slots.

Alpolloloco
01-29-2008, 09:31 PM
We couldn't get them off the offensive glass in the third period, and our bench was outscored pretty much too.

Overall it was a tough loss, we had a chance to win it ... even in the last minute.

Too bad there are so much negative posters in the game thread, it takes some fun away watching this at night (3 am in The Netherlands).

OnlyPacersLeft
01-29-2008, 09:35 PM
right...build a nice lead. Lose it...fall down come back then fall down by 6-8 pts down the stretch then make a game of it only to lose off poor execution...repetitive it's getting...uhg...27 loss's...you got to be kidding me

maragin
01-29-2008, 09:35 PM
Starting lineup of four white guys and Granger held close with the Pistons the whole game? Bravo. This isn't a game we should normally win, and there were several very good efforts put forth.

andreialta
01-29-2008, 09:36 PM
we played good, without JO and Tins, we battled against the Pistons! the supposedly 2nd best team right now..

Diener now showed he can play in this league, and that last block, he was wide open and then Rasheed still blocked it. amazingly. haha

Overall good game, lots of positives, some negatives, but ill take this rather than the loss we have had the past 3 games

D-BONE
01-29-2008, 09:37 PM
Some good individual performances. Can't fault the effort. We just haven't got the horses. Don't think we do even with Tins and/or JO either. We basically have no bench now.

I've been away the last few weeks so not following closely other than boxscores. I take it Quis is hurting? When isn't he I guess? It's amazing he could be as bad on D as he looked in his few minutes tonight.

Alpolloloco
01-29-2008, 09:39 PM
Yeah the game wasn't as bad as some guys made it sound in the game thread.

Kstat
01-29-2008, 09:40 PM
Indy played about as well as you could expect tonight, given who they were putting on the floor. When Rasheed decides he's not going to be guarded, there's not much you can do.

The Pacers shot the hell out of the ball. They just couldn't get the tough baskets to go.

Lord Helmet
01-29-2008, 09:42 PM
Yeah the game wasn't as bad as some guys made it sound in the game thread.
No, it wasn't that bad, but after you add in the fact that we've already lost to Chicago, Milwaukee and ended Miami's 56 game losing streak.......

Things pile up.

Bball
01-29-2008, 09:51 PM
I know it was a loss, but I enjoyed the effort put forth.

-Bball

jmoney2584
01-29-2008, 09:52 PM
We moved well tonight, but the continuing story of inconsistence came bounding out in the 4th quarter. We shot 50% from behind the 3pt line as well. If we have a completely average-bad shooting night the Pistons walk away even easier. I feel our offense was as good tonight as it is going to get all season, but very few and far between.

jeffg-body
01-29-2008, 10:06 PM
Overall I think it was a good game played by the Pacers, but unfortunately the Pistons are just on another level right now.

How about the new patented Dunleavy crossover?

:laugh:

D-BONE
01-29-2008, 10:09 PM
Thought Granger played a really nice defensive game on Rip. Good to see Dun play well against the Pistons. Diener had a solid game.

Would like to see Rush somehow more involved on offense. Like actually have plays run for him. Know that's not really how JOb's O runs but when a guy can shoot it from deep like that...

Sounded on the FSN broadcast that Tins could be back before long.

jmoney2584
01-29-2008, 10:18 PM
Sounded on the FSN broadcast that Tins could be back before long.

Nice, I think we need to put another hole in our defense...maybe it will help us win????

Ownagedood
01-29-2008, 10:41 PM
I can't believe that Graham couldn't produce in that 19 seconds of floor time. What a scrub.
Lol, ya that's rediculous.. He deserves more time.. Recently it seems he is the only one capable of TRYING to do all the things we need to be done.. The others are just throwing up three's and praying for it to go in..

OnlyPacersLeft
01-29-2008, 10:48 PM
unfortunetly a pick in the top 10 isn't going to make a damn difference in the long run. We need playoff experience for the young guys like dunleavy and murphy and granger. Plus we still get a pick...
granger was a steal...why couldnt we do it again?

Hailey12
01-29-2008, 10:55 PM
Lol, ya that's rediculous.. He deserves more time.. Recently it seems he is the only one capable of TRYING to do all the things we need to be done.. The others are just throwing up three's and praying for it to go in..

Yea, Graham needs at least 30 seconds to be productive. And by "others" throwing up 3's did you mean to say Granger. Because Dun was 4-4 on threes and Rush was really 3-4 since one three he shot was from half court and your right that was a prier.

Oh yea on my way back home from the game I could not believe some of the people calling in to the radio show, talking about how they need Tinsley and JO to come back so we can win those close games. All I have to say is that if Tins and JO played tonight it would not have even been within 20 points.

Shade
01-29-2008, 11:03 PM
unfortunetly a pick in the top 10 isn't going to make a damn difference in the long run. We need playoff experience for the young guys like dunleavy and murphy and granger. Plus we still get a pick...
granger was a steal...why couldnt we do it again?

Danny isn't a franchise player. There are 2-3 franchise players in the upcoming draft.

jmoney2584
01-29-2008, 11:45 PM
unfortunetly a pick in the top 10 isn't going to make a damn difference in the long run. We need playoff experience for the young guys like dunleavy and murphy and granger. Plus we still get a pick...
granger was a steal...why couldnt we do it again?

It's called a steal for a reason, it doesn't happen very often... that's why. Also, YES, picks in the top 10 make a big difference a lot more than teams get "steals".

I also don't want to put my hopes in getting lucky on a "steal" when i KNOW i can get a future all-star

OnlyPacersLeft
01-29-2008, 11:53 PM
exactly how many future all stars have the pacers actually drafted besides reggie miller?

Bball
01-30-2008, 12:04 AM
unfortunetly a pick in the top 10 isn't going to make a damn difference in the long run. We need playoff experience for the young guys like dunleavy and murphy and granger. Plus we still get a pick...
granger was a steal...why couldnt we do it again?

Playoff experience is what you need for a team on the rise with its core in place (or almost in place). All the playoffs are for a team backing into them is just a ticket to another season of mediocrity.

Granger was called a steal because a player of his caliber dropping that far is unusual. And he dropped for a reason... it just turned out to be not a very good one. The next time a player drops for a reason it might be a good one. And let's be realistic, Granger has quite a ways to go as a player to be the type of player that is all but un-tradable.

Any team that doesn't enter the playoffs with the tag "dangerous" on them is just a cruel joke and another dagger into the heart of those fans wanting SOMETHING... ANYTHING... to hang their hopes on for the future on.

-Bball

croz24
01-30-2008, 12:21 AM
exactly how many future all stars have the pacers actually drafted besides reggie miller?

well the nba pacers drafted reggie, antonio, dale, and rik whom all became all-stars...and i'd argue the reason they haven't drafted any all-stars recently is because they haven't had any top draft picks to work with. it's much harder to draft an all-star with picks in the 20s than it is with picks in the single digits...

jmoney2584
01-30-2008, 01:30 AM
exactly how many future all stars have the pacers actually drafted besides reggie miller?

The Pacers draft position average since 1988 (the year after miller) is 16.6th (17) overall. You were knocking getting a top #10 pick saying that it won't do a damn bit of good, but an average of 4 or so players from the top 10 every year is an all-star...and of those not all-stars around 80% are solid contributors and have been key players or even played for the USA team which is almost like being an all-star as well. Past 2004 is just young, but many recent top ten picks will be all-stars in the future. A lot higher percentage than that of the 10-20 pick range, thats for damn sheezy.

Unclebuck
01-30-2008, 08:12 AM
Pacers played about as well as they could have. Pistons depth and overall talent just wore us down. Losing games in the manner the Pacers did tonight is a perfect example of just not having the talent.

Comparing the Pacers starting 5 last night vs the Pistons starting 5 there isn't one position where the pacers had the advantage. Not even close. In fact the Pistons second 5 vs our starting 5, I'm not sure I wouldn't take their second 5 over our starting 5.


Another point that needs to be mentioned (it was quite often last year at this time) but when the Pacers made the G. State trade - the pacers knew they were going to have to count on JO and JT even more. Dun and Murphy are sytem type players who need stars around them to succeed. Murph and Dun are not one-on-one type players, neither can carry a team. Jax and Harrington on the other hand are one-on-one players who are capable of carrying a team for stretches during a game.

So woith that said, the pacers are more dependent upon JT and JO, and look where those two guys are right now.

Did anyone else hear Mark and Slick on the pregame show yesterday. They were doing their normal talk when Slick finally said, we need to discuss just how good this team is. And then he was somewhat critical of JO and JT for always missing games, always being injured.

Nothing Sheed does surprises me, I've thought for years that he is capable of being one of the best players in the game. There is nothing he can't do defensively or offensively.

BoomBaby33
01-30-2008, 09:15 AM
Went to my first game last night of the season, finally. Too busy at work this morning to expand on many of my thoughts. But here are a couple.

1. There were alot of Pistons fans there - ughh.
2. We were 2 different teams between the first quarter and the last 3 quarters. (that has already been documented by other on here, I know.)
3. Jeff is a monster on the boards. He may only get 11 or 12 a game, but he is in contention for at least 25 a game.
4. Lapses on defense happened alot. This is a major problem.
5. Several, several times, we looked completely lost on offense if we didnt beat the Pistons back for a fast break.
6. Shawne Williams looks lost out there.
7. I beginning to like Diener.
8. Overall, our foot speed as a team has to be one of the worst in the NBA. We can run fast after we get going, but getting moving from a stand still defensively or triple threat position is attrotious. (See also #4 above). (sans Rush and Granger).

Go Pacers!

Tom White
01-30-2008, 09:39 AM
exactly how many future all stars have the pacers actually drafted besides reggie miller?

Off the top of my head, Smits, D. Davis. Plus, Person was a rookie of the year winner. Can't come up with any others right now.

Tom White
01-30-2008, 09:40 AM
Granger was called a steal because a player of his caliber dropping that far is unusual. And he dropped for a reason... it just turned out to be not a very good one. The next time a player drops for a reason it might be a good one. -Bball

David Harrison?

Tom White
01-30-2008, 09:46 AM
I know it was a loss, but I enjoyed the effort put forth.

-Bball

Absolutely.

I only got to see the second half of the game, but from what I saw the Pacers were a couple of rushed and uncalled for three point attempts from winning this game. It only would have taken just a bit more patience on a couple of possessions to change the outcome.

I really enjoyed watching the effort that most of the guys gave.

I could point out the ones who weren't worth a tinker's ****, but everyone saw the same game and I'm trying to be positive here.

NuffSaid
01-30-2008, 10:04 AM
Some good individual performances. Can't fault the effort. We just haven't got the horses. Don't think we do even with Tins and/or JO either. We basically have no bench now.

I take it Quis is hurting? When isn't he I guess? It's amazing he could be as bad on D as he looked in his few minutes tonight.

I can't believe that Graham couldn't produce in that 19 seconds of floor time. What a scrub.
That's why I've been canvassing for Stephen Graham to get Quis' minutes! I'd even reduce Rush's minutes because he's playing hurt, too, but at least he provides better defense and can still knock down a few opened shots. Quis hasn't given the bench much of anything all season as the team's 6th Man. IMO, Rush beat him out for that title back in December when he began to avg. 14 ppg to Quis 6.

From the "Where Do We Go from Here...Yes, A Real Plan (http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?p=641328&highlight=Rush#post641328)" thread:


I became convinced that Rush should become the team's 6th Man at the very least ever since that Bulls game where he laid down 20+ pts. He's been a reliable scorer coming off the bench since then avg. 14 ppg in under 20 minutes. Let him start again and let's see if his production increases! His defense has improved alot since the start of the season. He has quickness and very good lateral movement AND he knows when to rotate defensively and when NOT to foul...

Of course, I contradicted myself over who should be the team's 6th Man. So, let me clarify for those who may be interested.

I felt that w/JO out of the lineup w/injury that a lineup of Granger (PF), Dunleavy (SF), Foster, Tinsley and Rush (SG) w/Williams as 6th Man and Deiner as BU/PG represented the strongest lineup/rotations 1-7 the Pacers had to offer at the time. Once JO returns, Foster comes off the bench. The earlier 6th Man reference to Rush was directed at using him in that capacity before the team went to their small-ball lineup. Up until that point w/both himself and Quis coming off the bench, I would have used Rush as the 6th Man because statistically Rush was performing much better than Quis.

Hope that clarifies things.

Unclebuck
01-30-2008, 10:39 AM
I have to assume Daniels is playing injured, because he has played horribly for over a month now.

We need him because he can do things no one else on our team can do - like get to the basket. But I've never seen someone shoot as many airballs as he has the past month

Bball
01-30-2008, 10:54 AM
Off the top of my head, Smits, D. Davis. Plus, Person was a rookie of the year winner. Can't come up with any others right now.

Antonio Davis... (he was selected after leaving Pacers and becoming a full time starter in Toronto if my memory serves me correctly)

-Bball

Tom White
01-30-2008, 10:57 AM
I have to assume Daniels is playing injured, because he has played horribly for over a month now.

We need him because he can do things no one else on our team can do - like get to the basket. But I've never seen someone shoot as many airballs as he has the past month

Wasn't that part of the knock on him in Dallas? That he really had no range outside of a layup?

Anyway, I've been wondering why so many people are big fans of his. Yes he can get close to the rim, but when needed he can't pass the ball back out very well. I'm not really enthralled by his defense, and we saw what a mistake trying him at the point was.

Sometimes, the way he plays makes me want to suggest that he switches to decaf coffee.

I guess I just don't see much of what Daniels brings to the team. I know that I'm much more comfortable with Rush getting those minutes and, like others, wouldn't mind seeing Graham getting more time.

Bball
01-30-2008, 11:09 AM
Wasn't that part of the knock on him in Dallas? That he really had no range outside of a layup?

Anyway, I've been wondering why so many people are big fans of his. Yes he can get close to the rim, but when needed he can't pass the ball back out very well. I'm not really enthralled by his defense, and we saw what a mistake trying him at the point was.

Sometimes, the way he plays makes me want to suggest that he switches to decaf coffee.

I guess I just don't see much of what Daniels brings to the team. I know that I'm much more comfortable with Rush getting those minutes and, like others, wouldn't mind seeing Graham getting more time.

I think I liked Daniels better when the pace of the offense was slower... but then maybe that just means his knee is bothering more this year and he's just dealing with it as opposed to last year. Then again, he's still playing this year and last year he ended up on the sidelines.

-Bball

Shade
01-30-2008, 11:54 AM
I think injuries are really hampering a lot of our players right now (JO, Tins, Quis, Ike). We don't have enough talent to be able to afford to lose these guys to injury.

NuffSaid
01-30-2008, 12:22 PM
The problem I have w/Quis (once I took the blinders off from all the hype of his "importance" from last season) is that while he can get inside the defense, he only goes so far. In other words, he may get in front of the rim, but rarely will he go "to" the rim. And when he does get to the rim, he has a hard time finishing. Bottom line here is dribble penetration - it may seem like he's a capable ball handler, but because he does have a unique ability to score the ball close in it's deceptive because he'll only go so far inside the defense.

Now, imagine if Quis were to actually take it to the rim. How many And1's would this guy get if he could finish? Quis, Granger and Dunleavy have similar problems: they worry more about getting the foul call than they do about finishing the play. Or maybe in Quis and Dun's case it's more of a pheobia about not getting hurt (more) than anything else.

ThA HoyA
01-30-2008, 01:35 PM
The problem I have w/Quis (once I took the blinders off from all the hype of his "importance" from last season) is that while he can get inside the defense, he only goes so far. In other words, he may get in front of the rim, but rarely will he go "to" the rim. And when he does get to the rim, he has a hard time finishing. Bottom line here is dribble penetration - it may seem like he's a capable ball handler, but because he does have a unique ability to score the ball close in it's deceptive because he'll only go so far inside the defense.

Now, imagive if Quis were to actually take it to the rim. How many And1's would this guy get if he could finish? Quis, Granger and Dunleavy have similar problems: they worry more about getting the foul call than they do about finishing the play. Or maybe in Quis and Dun's case it's more of a pheobia about not getting hurt (more) than anything else.

That is our top 2 biggest problems one is defense and second is finishing at the rim if we make a trade we need a finisher. I'd kill for josh smith he would fill the stands with his crazy dunks and plays good defense

JayRedd
01-30-2008, 01:42 PM
exactly how many future all stars have the pacers actually drafted besides reggie miller?

Stanko.


In fact the Pistons second 5 vs our starting 5, I'm not sure I wouldn't take their second 5 over our starting 5.

It's close talent-wise if we're talking about the JO/JT-less starters we threw out there to the wolves last night. But when you factor in production for salary, Flip/Stuckey/Amir/Maxiell/Primoz takes the cake easilly.

Naptown_Seth
01-30-2008, 02:00 PM
To me it was pretty simple.

1) Owens is not a legit minutes PG. JOB finally noticed and went with Quis in the 2nd half. Of course he's not a PG either, but at least he's NBA bench caliber.

2) Shawne is still a yout. He's green all over the place, and his mistakes were the 2nd phase of the falling apart plan.

3) The Pacers have no go-to creator, so when they needed buckets down the stretch they couldn't get them out of a normal set.

4) Dunleavy fades for whatever reason. He looked tired and confused for much of the 4th, especially in those final minutes. He also gives as much as he gets, he was often abused on defense even when he was creating on offense. Prince just shot right over him, for example.

5) Danny forced a lot of jumpers off the dribble while he was still basically contested. That's one of the areas he's still green, or maybe just feeling pressure to do something when the offense locks up. I'm sure those were JOB types of shots.


Props to Troy for turning his crap game into some real quality with a shocking jump in DEFENSIVE effort in the 4th. Where did that come from? Who knows, but could we please have more for that salary.

Danny is getting better at going off the dribble. Sure he's not there yet and his passing game is non-existant, but still he's gotten a lot better overall.

I'd be very happy to see Diener and Rush stay as BENCH guys next year. The fact that they are starters and command major minute right now says more about the roster than them. I feel good about them being out there, I just wish they weren't the top-end options.


I had a pretty good game experience. Hung out with my buddy, visited Gnome and Mal, heckled Peck from above, and secretly sat about 6 seats over from Magic Rat (didn't know for sure till the 2nd half). It's pretty much just PD posters at the game at this point.

Naptown_Seth
01-30-2008, 02:15 PM
And when he does get to the rim, he has a hard time finishing
Quis can't finish at the rim??? Um, Marquis Daniels? Pretty sure that's the one thing he does do at an elite level.

Sure he's been a mess the last 2 weeks, but you wouldn't have to dig too deep to find people besides me complimenting that aspect of his game. He hits shots at the rim that no one should make.

It's that he is missing those or not going to the rim in the first place that has him in a big slump. The reason he's not an answer for the get to the rim issue is that he can't pass out of his drives typically. But he can score at the rim normally, and at a high rate even.

I'm much more troubled when he settles for jumpers, especially threes.

Unclebuck
01-30-2008, 02:52 PM
The problem I have w/Quis (once I took the blinders off from all the hype of his "importance" from last season) is that while he can get inside the defense, he only goes so far. In other words, he may get in front of the rim, but rarely will he go "to" the rim. And when he does get to the rim, he has a hard time finishing.


He's never had any trouble finishing until just recently - all of his shots are short, even his shots in the lane are short. So I have to assume it is due to injury.

I said all summer long that the three most important players on the pacers team are: JO, JT and Marquis, and I still believe that

Kstat
01-30-2008, 04:29 PM
It's close talent-wise if we're talking about the JO/JT-less starters we threw out there to the wolves last night. But when you factor in production for salary, Flip/Stuckey/Amir/Maxiell/Primoz takes the cake easilly.

the 2nd 5 has changed several times since the start of the year. If you didn't notice, Amir wasn't even in the rotation for 2 months.

It's Stuckey/Afflalo/Hayes/Maxiell/Amir now. Flip and Primoz are waiting to be traded.

NuffSaid
01-30-2008, 06:03 PM
Quis can't finish at the rim??? Um, Marquis Daniels? Pretty sure that's the one thing he does do at an elite level.Let me define "finishing at the rim" from my perspective...

finishing at the rim = getting to the basket for layups and/or dunks

Quis has a remarkable ability to get in front of the basket for eye popping floaters close in towards the basket (3-10 ft), but rarely have I ever seen him actually get to the basket and finish.


Sure he's been a mess the last 2 weeks, but you wouldn't have to dig too deep to find people besides me complimenting that aspect of his game. He hits shots at the rim (in front of the basket) that no one should make (i.e., floaters and/or "shoe-string" line drive shots).

It's that he is missing those or not going to the rim in the first place that has him in a big slump. The reason he's not an answer for the get to the rim issue is that he can't pass out of his drives typically. But he can score at the rim normally, and at a high rate even.

I'm much more troubled when he settles for jumpers, especially threes.
Can't argue w/either of your comments above. I just wish he could get to the basket by my definition with far more regularity. Then I'd be really impressed. But like you, UB and others say he has to be playing hurt. There's just no other explanation short of the man being in a terrible slump to explain his sub-par performances of late.

Since86
01-31-2008, 01:19 PM
If you get to the rim and finish, whether he dunks the ball, lays it in, floats the ball, kicks the ball, or even headbutts the ball in, what should it matter?

Hitting a shot by dunking it in or laying it in counts just as much as heaving up a floater. (that really doesn't sound like we're talking about basketball)

Quis is the best Pacer player at getting into the lane and finishing.

MyFavMartin
01-31-2008, 01:48 PM
I can't believe that Graham couldn't produce in that 19 seconds of floor time. What a scrub.

19 more seconds than the key to the GS-IND trade.

Naptown_Seth
01-31-2008, 02:53 PM
And I still say that he is hitting layups. Awkward, twisting, contested layups, but not "floaters" as in Reggie's hanging short jumpers or some sideways jumper in the paint. To me those AREN'T his shots.

He's got a decent mid-range jumper usually, but other than layups at the rim that's about all he has. Combine that with his passing woes and you have legit holes that keep him in a bench role.

But as Buck, I and others have said, he's not even been effective making "his" shots, for whatever reason that is.


Buck - if you are right, and there is some reason to think you are, then not having JO and Tins and having Quis in a slump sure is working as you'd expect it to (ie, horrible)

LoneGranger33
01-31-2008, 04:08 PM
The problem isn't that Marquis is missing "awkward, twisting, contested layups", it's that he's taking them. He doesn't even look up when he dribbles.