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Ultimate Frisbee
06-01-2004, 11:56 PM
I posted this in another thread, but I don't think it belonged there: Please tell me what you think!!!!

In my mind the following holds:

Tradable:

1.) Al Harrington (Teams really want him and he is young, has a low salary for a potential star, and is discontent not starting)

2.) Croshere (his contract is a burden)

3.) Tinsley (Solid point guard, trade value as a kicker is high...)


Not Tradable:

1.) J.O. (cornerstone)

2.) Artest (would only trade him for Shaq, Garnett, Duncan, or Bryant.. or perhaps McGrady, etc... haha i just edited this after thinking a bit... He has a low salary for an allstar, is signed for a while, and his potential and drive are HUGE)

3.) Miller (team morale)

4.) Fred Jones (undervalued and his effort is awesome)


I think we should target upgrading our starting 5... It is ashame to have Harrionton on the bench when we arguably have 3 weaker players starting (Miller, Tinsely, and Foster). We have an awesome coach who is able to fit any NBA caliber player into the game at the right times...

Hicks
06-01-2004, 11:59 PM
My untradables are O'Neal, Jones, Tinsley, and Foster unless you're getting a better center back.

Miller is never gonna be traded nor wanted, so I won't bother to throw his name in.

And I'll only be upset if Ron's traded for a lesser player.

Unclebuck
06-02-2004, 12:02 AM
I have not thought this through quite yet, so I might change my mind. I see AL as the most likely to be traded, not because he is not important, but he has more trade value excpet for HJ.O and Ronnie.

Trading Bender now would be a huge mistake. His value is not that high, after he gets consistant minutes next season and stays healthy, maybe then you can trade him.

I see very little changes this offseason.

61 wins is nothing to sneeze at

sweabs
06-02-2004, 12:03 AM
A lot of people talking about T-Mac at the SG position...but what about Quentin Ricahrdson there? He is a FA - young guy - he's gonna be good.

Ultimate Frisbee
06-02-2004, 12:04 AM
Hicks, I changed my post for you... Artest could be traded for more than the players I originally listed...

Aw Heck
06-02-2004, 12:08 AM
Richardson would be a great fit. I wonder how he would do in a system like Carlisles. I'm not sure that we could find a way to pay him though.

S&T with the Clippers. For Harrington straight up or with Pollard. Pacers will need Cro to back up J.O.

arenn
06-02-2004, 12:09 AM
Here's my list:

Unload if you can:

Harrington (seems to be our most tradealble player)
Bender
Croshere

Unload if strategic unique opportunity arises:

O'Neal

Needs to have a serious discussion as to what his role (if any) is on the team next year:

Miller

Guys I'd keep regardless:

Artest
Tinsley

Guys I'd keep unless someone else foolishly decides to overpay:

Everybody else.

beast23
06-02-2004, 12:51 AM
I have not thought this through quite yet, so I might change my mind. I see AL as the most likely to be traded, not because he is not important, but he has more trade value excpet for HJ.O and Ronnie.

Trading Bender now would be a huge mistake. His value is not that high, after he gets consistant minutes next season and stays healthy, maybe then you can trade him.

I see very little changes this offseason.

61 wins is nothing to sneeze at
I really believe Reggie will quietly be encouraged to retire.

And I believe the only remaining untradeables would be JO and Ron.

But I agree with you about no trades under one circumstance. If JO really is out 4-6 months, possibly following a minor surgery, then I can almost see the Pacers staying as is with Al assuming the PF position.

If JO is ready to play next season, then I can possibly see a major trade on the horizon. We need a shooting guard, plain and simple. We could use improved offense from the center position, but a trade for a better center seems unlikely.

kerosene
06-02-2004, 12:55 AM
I know he's worked hard for this, but for selfish reasons I hope JO sits out this summer. If he doesn't, I can't blame him, but part of me would like to see him sit.

If he doesn't sit, I hope he earns his Gold then "resigns" from the team. He can't keep this up forever.

MSA2CF
06-02-2004, 07:30 PM
Here's how it stands right now:

Indiana Pacers
Player Years of Contract l $ l FA
Kenny Anderson ........1 l minimum l '04
Jamison Brewer ........3 l minimum l '04
Anthony Johnson .......2 l minimum l p-opt '04
Primoz Brezec .........4 l $3,789,375 l '05
Austin Croshere .......7 l $51 million l p-opt '05
James Jones ...........2 l minimum l t-opt '05
Jamaal Tinsley ........4 l $3,961,521 l '05
Al Harrington .........8 l $27,674,502 l '06
Fred Jones ............4 l $6,774,723 l t-opt '06
Reggie Miller .........3 l $17.5 l '06
Scot Pollard ..........6 l $30.7 l '06
Jonathan Bender .......8 l $10,368,785+??? l '07
Ron Artest ............ 10 l $47,387,140 l p-opt '08
Jermaine O'Neal ....... 7 l $126,588,000 l p-opt '08
Jeff Foster ...........10 l $34,336,575 l '09

I'm predicting:

Kenny is gone...Good riddance; I never wanted him anyway. (I still don't see what all the hype was about last summer. :whoknows:)
Jamison will stick around b/c of his quickness, experience, familiarity, etc...
AJ has the option to leave...I would be very surprised if he leaves. What other situation would he rather be in & who would want him? :confused:
Primoz will stick around...He's a fan favorite & probably will be the man left unprotected & taken by the Bobcats.
Austin will be left unprotected for the Bobcats also, and will be with the team unless traded.
James won't go anywhere unless he's part of a trade, but I don't think he will.
Jamaal will stay. He improved drastically and is maturing faster than I think most people expected.
Al will be traded for backcourt help.
Fred will be kept and if Reggie retires & unless a starting SG is traded for, he'll fill that role.
Reggie will stay on. I think getting so close will burn on his insides and he'll be back. Plus, I don't think he's the kind of guy to back out of a contract.
Scot will be retained. He's a great guy and should work hard over the offseason to get back into playing shape.
Jonathan will definitely be back and be our 6th man.
Artest will be dealt with and kept.
Jeff is a Pacer for life.

What I'd like to happen:

I'd like Brewer to be drafted by the Bobcats.
I'd like to keep the rest of the team intact, except for Kenny Anderson.
With these two PGs gone, we are left very, very weak at the backcourt and I would reluctantly trade Al + James Jones for a backup PG and/or Combo Guard.

Ragnar
06-02-2004, 07:43 PM
Never trade: Jermaine, Jamaal, Ron possibly Jeff. Thats is everyone else is fair game if we can get the right player.

If we can trade Bender/Harrington/Jones for a player like T-Mac then by all means do it. If it means sending Pollard and Cro for Hill to get it done then by all means do it!

I know this will suprise a lot of people but I think AJ played very well against the Heat and the Pistons. I was so happy I would even be willing to see him back next year. Just so long as we keep Jamison arround and start working him in as the backup so that the year after next he is the primary backup.

My dream/slightly realistic lineup

Tinsley/Strick/Brewer

T-Mac/Reggie/James Jones

Ron/James Jones (hey he is a pretty good defender)

Jermaine/Cro

Jeff/Cro

AJ as a spot shooter

Thats only 11 guys hey we only play 10 anyway. We could use the 12th spot on someone like that Canadian kid who could shoot the long ball. I guess keep Primo for the hope that he will develope into something.

So that means trade Bender/Harrington/Jones/Pollard I think we could get a decent player out of that. We should at least be able to get a decent sg if not T-Mac then at least Q-Rich

sweabs
06-02-2004, 07:48 PM
We could use the 12th spot on someone like that Canadian kid who could shoot the long ball.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

Oh God - not Ivan Chirieav...I have heard enough of this guy all on the news here.

He really is over-rated...he played in an All-Star game about 3 weeks ago in Toronto, and just CHOKED. Some NBA scouts came to watch, and Ivan was not shooting lights out at all - and this was an All-Star game where there was no defense...not to mention it was Canadian kids :blush: :laugh: .

Anyways, after that he knew he wouldn't cut it in the draft - the scouts said things like they couldn't believe how they wasted time coming up here to watch him and stuff. Ivan has the outside shot - granted...but he is EXTREMELY SLOW, not that great in the post, and his defense is AWFUL. Plus - the kid is so cocky that it makes you want to :puke:.

bulletproof
06-02-2004, 07:50 PM
I really believe Reggie will quietly be encouraged to retire.

By whom? Donnie? Larry? Cheryl? :rolleyes:

Bball
06-02-2004, 08:26 PM
I really believe Reggie will quietly be encouraged to retire.

By whom? Donnie? Larry? Cheryl? :rolleyes:

:idea: Do you think one of them 'should' talk to him about it?

-Bball

Hicks
06-02-2004, 09:00 PM
Cheryl might; I know she wanted him to leave Indiana last summer to persue a ring.

Big Smooth
06-02-2004, 09:21 PM
I posted this in another thread, but I don't think it belonged there: Please tell me what you think!!!!

In my mind the following holds:

Tradable:

1.) Al Harrington (Teams really want him and he is young, has a low salary for a potential star, and is discontent not starting)

2.) Croshere (his contract is a burden)

3.) Tinsley (Solid point guard, trade value as a kicker is high...)


Not Tradable:

1.) J.O. (cornerstone)

2.) Artest (would only trade him for Shaq, Garnett, Duncan, or Bryant.. or perhaps McGrady, etc... haha i just edited this after thinking a bit... He has a low salary for an allstar, is signed for a while, and his potential and drive are HUGE)

3.) Miller (team morale)

4.) Fred Jones (undervalued and his effort is awesome)


I think we should target upgrading our starting 5... It is ashame to have Harrionton on the bench when we arguably have 3 weaker players starting (Miller, Tinsely, and Foster). We have an awesome coach who is able to fit any NBA caliber player into the game at the right times...

In my mind, there are 3 guys who I want to see on the floor next season:

Tinsley
Artest
O'Neal

After those 3, anyone else is fair game for a trade or being replaced.

Reggie has to move to the bench.

I would like to see Fred Jones stay.

After that, fire away Larry & Donnie.

bulletproof
06-02-2004, 09:33 PM
I really believe Reggie will quietly be encouraged to retire.

By whom? Donnie? Larry? Cheryl? :rolleyes:

:idea: Do you think one of them 'should' talk to him about it?

-Bball

No, I don't. And they won't. It would be disrespectful. I was kidding about Cheryl.

What I see happening is this: The Pacers will trade for a strong SG. Donnie or Larry, because of their relationship with Reggie, will discuss their intentions with him and tell him they'd like him to be their backup SG, but they would understand should he decide to retire instead.

Bball
06-02-2004, 09:58 PM
I really believe Reggie will quietly be encouraged to retire.

By whom? Donnie? Larry? Cheryl? :rolleyes:

:idea: Do you think one of them 'should' talk to him about it?

-Bball

No, I don't. And they won't. It would be disrespectful. I was kidding about Cheryl.

What I see happening is this: The Pacers will trade for a strong SG. Donnie or Larry, because of their relationship with Reggie, will discuss their intentions with him and tell him they'd like him to be their backup SG, but they would understand should he decide to retire instead.

Hmmm That is exactly the kind of scenario I pictured when Beast23 said "I really believe Reggie will quietly be encouraged to retire."

I guess he didn't leave the option of coming off the bench tho which I think management would bring into the equation... even if they knew he'd decline and retire instead.

Would they actually tell him the new SG would be the starter or would they simply tell him his spot is no longer guaranteed and the spot is open to competition? And would they tell him all of this before or after they had the new SG on the roster?

-Bball

bulletproof
06-02-2004, 10:07 PM
Would they actually tell him the new SG would be the starter or would they simply tell him his spot is no longer guaranteed and the spot is open to competition? And would they tell him all of this before or after they had the new SG on the roster?

I can only speculate at this point, but I don't think there would be any illusions as to who would start should we trade for someone like McGrady, Allen or Richardson. And I think they would tell him after the trade was made, but before it was announced to the press.

Will Galen
06-02-2004, 10:09 PM
Here's how it stands right now:

Indiana Pacers
Player Years of Contract l $ l FA
Kenny Anderson ........1 l minimum l '04
Jamison Brewer ........3 l minimum l '04
Anthony Johnson .......2 l minimum l p-opt '04


I'd like Brewer to be drafted by the Bobcats.


Didn't you read your own post? Brewer is a free agent.

Personally I don't think we will lose anyone to the expansion draft unless it's Johnson. However, he could opt out and then resign with us and we wouldn't lose anyone.

MSA2CF
06-02-2004, 11:30 PM
Here's how it stands right now:

Indiana Pacers
Player Years of Contract l $ l FA
Kenny Anderson ........1 l minimum l '04
Jamison Brewer ........3 l minimum l '04
Anthony Johnson .......2 l minimum l p-opt '04


I'd like Brewer to be drafted by the Bobcats.


Didn't you read your own post? Brewer is a free agent.

Personally I don't think we will lose anyone to the expansion draft unless it's Johnson. However, he could opt out and then resign with us and we wouldn't lose anyone.

:laugh: I guess I should have said he would be re-signed. I think he will be & I would still leave him unprotected...Anyway, I probably don't make sense, but I was in a hurry when I posted all that & I'm sorta tired right now.

Will Galen
06-03-2004, 02:50 AM
Here's how it stands right now:

Indiana Pacers
Player Years of Contract l $ l FA
Kenny Anderson ........1 l minimum l '04
Jamison Brewer ........3 l minimum l '04
Anthony Johnson .......2 l minimum l p-opt '04


I'd like Brewer to be drafted by the Bobcats.


Didn't you read your own post? Brewer is a free agent.

Personally I don't think we will lose anyone to the expansion draft unless it's Johnson. However, he could opt out and then resign with us and we wouldn't lose anyone.

:laugh: I guess I should have said he would be re-signed. I think he will be & I would still leave him unprotected...Anyway, I probably don't make sense, but I was in a hurry when I posted all that & I'm sorta tired right now.


Okay, but we can't resign Brewer until after the middle of July. The expansion draft is June 22ed so Brewer isn't a factor. Plus I'm reading he wants to play so he probably won't resign with the Pacers. Of course if we lose Johnson to expansion that could make Brewer the backup.

I think the Pacers are going to make some important moves this year so we will just have to wait and what happens.

wintermute
06-03-2004, 06:36 AM
why do people assume aj won't opt out? he has very little to lose and much (relatively) to gain.

kevin ollie and erick strickland both got long term contracts last year. not saying aj would, but you don't think he'll look for that kind of money/commitment? especially coming off his best season? i mean, he could suck next year and then no one would really want him.

Suaveness
06-03-2004, 10:40 AM
why do people assume aj won't opt out? he has very little to lose and much (relatively) to gain.

kevin ollie and erick strickland both got long term contracts last year. not saying aj would, but you don't think he'll look for that kind of money/commitment? especially coming off his best season? i mean, he could suck next year and then no one would really want him.


Well, AJ can stay here and have a pretty good shot at winning a title.

MSA2CF
06-03-2004, 12:10 PM
Okay, but we can't resign Brewer until after the middle of July. The expansion draft is June 22ed so Brewer isn't a factor.

Thanks Will.

blanket
06-03-2004, 12:44 PM
I think this may have been suggested before, but what do people think of a trade along the lines of Harrington/Pollard for Mobley/Cato? This would give us a starting shooting guard who can shoot and defend, and a solid center rotation with Cato and Foster. I suspect Houston will either try to trade Francis for someone like MacGrady, or move him to the 2 (making Mobley expendable) and bring in a true PG.

sweabs
06-03-2004, 03:54 PM
I think this may have been suggested before, but what do people think of a trade along the lines of Harrington/Pollard for Mobley/Cato? This would give us a starting shooting guard who can shoot and defend, and a solid center rotation with Cato and Foster. I suspect Houston will either try to trade Francis for someone like MacGrady, or move him to the 2 (making Mobley expendable) and bring in a true PG.

Yeah - that has been suggested before and I really like the idea. I don't know if it works out - but hell yeah I like it. Mobley is an awesome player - and Cato is the kind of guy that would fit in perfectly here.

Ultimate Frisbee
06-03-2004, 05:28 PM
Indiana trades: PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 30.9 minutes)
C Scot Pollard (1.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.1 minutes)
Indiana receives: C Kelvin Cato (6.1 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 25.3 minutes)
SG Cuttino Mobley (15.8 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 40.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +6.9 ppg, +2.2 rpg, and +2.3 apg.

Houston trades: C Kelvin Cato (6.1 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 25.3 minutes)
SG Cuttino Mobley (15.8 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 40.4 minutes)
Houston receives: PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 79 games)
C Scot Pollard (1.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.2 apg in 61 games)
Change in team outlook: -6.9 ppg, -2.2 rpg, and -2.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

I think I posted something about this earlier... but I think it was more along the lines of:

Indiana trades: PF Austin Croshere (5.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 13.7 minutes)
PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 30.9 minutes)
Indiana receives: C Kelvin Cato (6.1 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 25.3 minutes)
SG Cuttino Mobley (15.8 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 40.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +3.6 ppg, +1.7 rpg, and +1.8 apg.

Houston trades: C Kelvin Cato (6.1 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 25.3 minutes)
SG Cuttino Mobley (15.8 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 40.4 minutes)
Houston receives: PF Austin Croshere (5.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 77 games)
PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 79 games)
Change in team outlook: -3.6 ppg, -1.7 rpg, and -1.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Although the first trade is probably more likely...

purdue101
06-03-2004, 05:32 PM
i think we can get a better deal using harrington

Seattle trades: SG Ray Allen (23.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.4 minutes)
Seattle receives: PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 30.9 minutes)
C Scot Pollard (1.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.1 minutes)
PG Fred Jones (4.9 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 18.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -3.1 ppg, +5.6 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

Indiana trades: PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 30.9 minutes)
C Scot Pollard (1.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.1 minutes)
PG Fred Jones (4.9 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 18.6 minutes)
Indiana receives: SG Ray Allen (23.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.8 apg in 56 games)
Change in team outlook: +3.1 ppg, -5.6 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Ultimate Frisbee
06-03-2004, 05:36 PM
Freddie back in the northwest...

:) :(

Ultimate Frisbee
06-03-2004, 05:58 PM
oops, barry is a free agent, my bad again...

LAPacer
06-03-2004, 06:01 PM
I like the cuttino trade better than the flash (barry allen) trade. ray is a much better offensive player but we are a defensive team.