PDA

View Full Version : Pacers vs. Bucks Post-Game Thread: Pacers move up two draft spots



Shade
01-24-2008, 11:20 PM
We now hold the #11 pick! :yay2:

I'm reminded of an old Bob Knight quote:

"If rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it."

Without JO and Tinsley, we may well be one of the five worst teams in the NBA. We'll find out on Saturday.

DID YOU KNOW: The Pacers have now lost to 7 of the 10 teams below us in the current standings. The only exceptions are the Heat, Knicks, and Sixers.

Doddage
01-24-2008, 11:21 PM
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr align="center"><td> http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nba/teams/20080123/80x60/ind.gif (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/ind) (19-25)
</td> <td width="370"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="ysptblbdr2"> <table class="ysptblclbg3" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="ysptblbdr2"><td colspan="15" height="1"></td></tr> <tr align="center" bgcolor="#dedec6"> <td rowspan="5" class="ysptblbdr2" width="1"></td> <td height="18" width="10"></td> <td></td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores" width="25">1</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores" width="25">2</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores" width="25">3</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores" width="25">4</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores total" align="right" width="35">Total</td> <td class="yspscores" width="65"></td> <td rowspan="5" class="ysptblbdr2" width="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="yspwhitebg"><td colspan="13" height="1"></td></tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="center"> <td height="23" width="10"></td> <td class="yspscores team" align="left"> Indiana (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/ind) </td> <td class="yspscores">32</td> <td class="yspscores">18</td> <td class="yspscores">23</td> <td class="yspscores">19</td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right"> 92 </td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right">Final </td> </tr> <tr class="yspwhitebg"> <td colspan="2"></td> <td colspan="8" height="1"></td> <td colspan="2" class="ysptblclbg6"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="center"> <td height="23" width="10">http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/gr/or_arrow.gif</td> <td class="yspscores team" align="left"> Milwaukee (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/mil) </td> <td class="yspscores">32</td> <td class="yspscores">20</td> <td class="yspscores">22</td> <td class="yspscores">30</td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right"> 104 </td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr2"> <td colspan="15" height="1"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td> http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nba/teams/20080123/80x60/mil.gif (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/mil) (17-26)
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" height="7"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td height="7"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="stats" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"> <td colspan="16" class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> Indiana </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl player" align="left" height="18" width="17%"> Name</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%"></td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Min</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">FG</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">3Pt</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">FT</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">+/-</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Off</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Reb</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Ast</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">TO</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Stl</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">BS</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">BA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Pts </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> T. Diener (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3964)</td> <td class="player"> G </td> <td>40:02</td> <td>4-12</td> <td>2-7</td> <td>5-5</td> <td> -8 </td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>9</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>15 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> K. Rush (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3618)</td> <td class="player"> G </td> <td>34:40</td> <td>5-11</td> <td>4-5</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> -4 </td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>14 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> J. Foster (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3344)</td> <td class="player"> C </td> <td>24:31</td> <td>5-6</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>3-3</td> <td> +1 </td> <td>2</td> <td>6</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>13 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> M. Dunleavy (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3601)</td> <td class="player"> F </td> <td>39:14</td> <td>6-11</td> <td>2-4</td> <td>8-8</td> <td> -5 </td> <td>0</td> <td>6</td> <td>5</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>22 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> D. Granger (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3943)</td> <td class="player"> F </td> <td>38:23</td> <td>8-17</td> <td>3-7</td> <td>1-1</td> <td> -3 </td> <td>1</td> <td>9</td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>20 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> T. Murphy (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3524)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>23:29</td> <td>2-5</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> -13 </td> <td>2</td> <td>6</td> <td>2</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>5</td> <td>4 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> M. Daniels (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3764)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>18:25</td> <td>1-7</td> <td>0-2</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> -13 </td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>3</td> <td>2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> S. Williams (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4145)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>9:37</td> <td>0-6</td> <td>0-3</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> -9 </td> <td>1</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> A. Owens (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4048)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>9:22</td> <td>1-3</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> -6 </td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> S. Graham (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4012)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>2:16</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> 0 </td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> I. Diogu (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3935)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td class="dnp" colspan="14" align="center">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> D. Harrison (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3846)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td class="dnp" colspan="14" align="center">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr3"> <td colspan="16" height="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="right"> <td class="sum" align="left" height="18"> Totals</td> <td></td> <td></td> <td>32-78</td> <td>11-29</td> <td>17-17</td> <td></td> <td>10</td> <td>41</td> <td>26</td> <td>15</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>5</td> <td>20</td> <td>92 </td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td class="sum" align="left" height="18"> Percentages:</td> <td colspan="2"></td> <td>.410</td> <td>.379</td> <td>1.000</td> <td></td> <td colspan="9" class="team-rebounds" align="left">Team Rebounds: 4 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td height="7"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="stats" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"> <td colspan="16" class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> Milwaukee </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl player" align="left" height="18" width="17%"> Name</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%"></td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Min</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">FG</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">3Pt</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">FT</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">+/-</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Off</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Reb</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Ast</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">TO</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Stl</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">BS</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">BA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Pts </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> M. Redd (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3442)</td> <td class="player"> G </td> <td>45:31</td> <td>13-29</td> <td>5-13</td> <td>6-6</td> <td> +10 </td> <td>0</td> <td>5</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>37 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> M. Williams (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3750)</td> <td class="player"> G </td> <td>34:53</td> <td>4-10</td> <td>1-4</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> +9 </td> <td>1</td> <td>4</td> <td>9</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>9 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> A. Bogut (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3927)</td> <td class="player"> C </td> <td>31:27</td> <td>7-11</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>3-7</td> <td> +10 </td> <td>0</td> <td>7</td> <td>3</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>17 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> B. Simmons (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3551)</td> <td class="player"> F </td> <td>30:08</td> <td>6-13</td> <td>3-8</td> <td>1-2</td> <td> +2 </td> <td>2</td> <td>8</td> <td>3</td> <td>2</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>16 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> Y. Jianlian (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4284)</td> <td class="player"> F </td> <td>12:57</td> <td>2-6</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>2-2</td> <td> -9 </td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>6 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> C. Bell (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3570)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>29:22</td> <td>4-7</td> <td>2-5</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> +18 </td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>2</td> <td>3</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>10 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> R. Ivey (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3854)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>21:16</td> <td>1-2</td> <td>1-1</td> <td>2-2</td> <td> +8 </td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>5 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> C. Villanueva (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3933)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>17:46</td> <td>2-5</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> +10 </td> <td>1</td> <td>4</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>4 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> M. Ruffin (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3355)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>16:32</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> +2 </td> <td>5</td> <td>7</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> A. Storey (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3903)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>0:04</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> 0 </td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> D. Gadzuric (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3631)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td class="dnp" colspan="14" align="center">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> J. Voskuhl (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3432)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td class="dnp" colspan="14" align="center">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr3"> <td colspan="16" height="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="right"> <td class="sum" align="left" height="18"> Totals</td> <td></td> <td></td> <td>39-83</td> <td>12-31</td> <td>14-19</td> <td></td> <td>11</td> <td>41</td> <td>30</td> <td>9</td> <td>8</td> <td>5</td> <td>1</td> <td>20</td> <td>104 </td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td class="sum" align="left" height="18"> Percentages:</td> <td colspan="2"></td> <td>.470</td> <td>.387</td> <td>.737</td> <td></td> <td colspan="9" class="team-rebounds" align="left">Team Rebounds: 9 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td height="7"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"> <td class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> Game Info</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="yspnotice"> Technical Fouls: None</td></tr></tbody></table>

Bball
01-24-2008, 11:24 PM
We now hold the #11 pick! :yay2:

I'm reminded of an old Bob Knight quote:

"If rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it."

Without JO and Tinsley, we may well be one of the five worst teams in the NBA. We'll find out on Saturday.

DID YOU KNOW: The Pacers have now lost to 7 of the 10 teams below us in the current standings. The only exceptions are the Heat, Knicks, and Sixers.

And with JO and Tinsley we're no better.... :woot: :sad:

idioteque
01-24-2008, 11:24 PM
http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/hasheemthabeet.html

Currently projected to go #11 as per NBAdraft.net

AesopRockOn
01-24-2008, 11:25 PM
"If rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it."

Sounds like a country song....


This is one of the few games I've missed. Can someone give a quick albeit frustrated summary of our play? Much appreciated. :)

Doddage
01-24-2008, 11:25 PM
Looks like I got served by Shade... :laugh:

Raoul Duke
01-24-2008, 11:25 PM
We're that much closer to keeping EJ in Indiana.

Shade
01-24-2008, 11:27 PM
And with JO and Tinsley we're no better.... :woot: :sad:

Now, that's not true. With JO and Tinsley we're only one of the 15 worst teams in the NBA. ;)

Shade
01-24-2008, 11:28 PM
Can someone give a quick albeit frustrated summary of our play? Much appreciated. :)

We sucked.

LG33
01-24-2008, 11:28 PM
Sounds like a country song....


This is one of the few games I've missed. Can someone give a quick albeit frustrated summary of our play? Much appreciated. :)

We suuuuucked. Marquis Daniels? He suuuucked. Shawne? Suuuucked. Our bench...suuuuucked. Our starters? Not that bad really. But the game? It suuuucked...

EDIT: See above.

MyFavMartin
01-24-2008, 11:29 PM
Let's drop the sexual assault talk... we're classier than that.

Shade
01-24-2008, 11:29 PM
Looks like I got served by Shade... :laugh:

It's MY time to shine! :yay:

Dece
01-24-2008, 11:31 PM
I guess the highlight of this is... Michael Redd was a mid SECOND round draft pick... I figure eventually we have to get lucky in the draft.

Shade
01-24-2008, 11:31 PM
Woo! We get to halt Miami's 15-game losing streak! :cool:

LG33
01-24-2008, 11:32 PM
Woo! We get to halt Miami's 15-game losing streak! :cool:

There's no way we win that game. Wade will score 34 points. I guarantee it.

Shade
01-24-2008, 11:34 PM
There's no way we win that game. Wade will score 34 points. I guarantee it.

I hope Wade drops 50 on us. The least he can do is help my fantasy team.

Kofi
01-24-2008, 11:34 PM
#11, and not that far out of the top 7. Remember, Portland was #7 last year when they won the lottery. Once you get that high, you have a legit (albeit still fairly small) chance of actually landing a top-3 pick.

Eric Gordan/Michael Beasley/Derrick Rose/DeAndre Jordan/Donte Greene...it's all good.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-24-2008, 11:35 PM
heat lose....15 in a row. We are right up their alley...I think i'll go root for jackson and the warriors...yeah I like rooting for underdogs plus i still like jackson and baby al.
And we are awesome i would just like to add! The tank is on! losing this next one to miami should be fun...I bet we lead by 15 then blow it in the 4th only to lose on a last 2nd fadeaway 3 by wade at the buzzer.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-24-2008, 11:36 PM
I hope Wade drops 50 on us. The least he can do is help my fantasy team.
you know shade I have danny on my team so it's awesome he's getting more touches...now if only we could just use him like T-mac and run the offense completely through him! Cause come on...who wants to see dunleavy shaking himself all the time? Gosh if someone can make me an avatar of dun dun shaking himself props will be given!

Kofi
01-24-2008, 11:36 PM
I guess the highlight of this is... Michael Redd was a mid SECOND round draft pick... I figure eventually we have to get lucky in the draft.

Stanko Barac is gonna be an incredible player. I'll say it right now....he's gonna be better than Dwight Howard.

Dece
01-24-2008, 11:36 PM
You really think we're good enough to require a last second shot? Miami wins handily, 97-111.

Bball
01-24-2008, 11:36 PM
Sounds like a country song....


This is one of the few games I've missed. Can someone give a quick albeit frustrated summary of our play? Much appreciated. :)

I think we just ran out of steam in the 4th. We didn't look that bad on offense tonight (thru 3 qtrs) but we couldn't keep the Bucks off the offensive glass so they got a lot of second (and 3rd) looks.

Once again, without JO we do a better job on defense of closing out on people coming open behind the arc, but our guards cannot stop the penetration. True, you could have JO in there playing goalie, but then we collapse inside on penetration and can't recover for the kick out.

I thought most of the Bucks longer looks tonight was because they scrubbed their defender off, not so much due to a drive and kick.

I'm fine with Diener over Jamaal (of course you know I'd say that). At least Diener looks like he cares and he DOES push the ball and get the offense initiated quickly. And he's consistent. His lowest low is nowhere near Jamaal's lowest lows and his attitude is better. Neither can play defense, but again, Diener at least looks like he cares. Let me know the next time Diener goes "Tinsley" and pulls out the pouts or "oneupsmanship" crap.

Once again, in the waning moments we took a questionable shot. When the other team has momentum building and a once tight game is starting to drift away, I say scrap the rushed 3 and run some offense and try and get a nice midrange shot or a backdoor layup. Save the rushed '3' for 2 secs left in the shotclock. But nooooooo we race up the court and take a quick 3 with a defender close enough to be a factor. I don't question a quick 3 when it's open, but I certainly question one when it is rushed and I question it moreso when the smart play is to get a high percentage shot to stem the tide (of the other team's little run).

-Bball

LG33
01-24-2008, 11:38 PM
Stanko Barac is gonna be an incredible player. I'll say it right now....he's gonna be better than Dwight Howard.

Duh dude. Everybody can tell already.

http://subintsoc.net/images/2006/sr_20060519_dukakis_tank.jpg
Somebody put Jim O'Brien in that tank please.

AesopRockOn
01-24-2008, 11:45 PM
I think we just ran out of steam in the 4th. We didn't look that bad on offense tonight (thru 3 qtrs) but we couldn't keep the Bucks off the offensive glass so they got a lot of second (and 3rd) looks.

Once again, without JO we do a better job on defense of closing out on people coming open behind the arc, but our guards cannot stop the penetration. True, you could have JO in there playing goalie, but then we collapse inside on penetration and can't recover for the kick out.

I thought most of the Bucks longer looks tonight was because they scrubbed their defender off, not so much due to a drive and kick.

I'm fine with Diener over Jamaal (of course you know I'd say that). At least Diener looks like he cares and he DOES push the ball and get the offense initiated quickly. And he's consistent. His lowest low is nowhere near Jamaal's lowest lows and his attitude is better. Neither can play defense, but again, Diener at least looks like he cares. Let me know the next time Diener goes "Tinsley" and pulls out the pouts or "oneupsmanship" crap.

Once again, in the waning moments we took a questionable shot. When the other team has momentum building and a once tight game is starting to drift away, I say scrap the rushed 3 and run some offense and try and get a nice midrange shot or a backdoor layup. Save the rushed '3' for 2 secs left in the shotclock. But nooooooo we race up the court and take a quick 3 with a defender close enough to be a factor. I don't question a quick 3 when it's open, but I certainly question one when it is rushed and I question it moreso when the smart play is to get a high percentage shot to stem the tide (of the other team's little run).

-Bball

Thanks a lot (and Shade for the Cliffnotes version). Sounds like a frustrating game. Then again, that's most of the season. I have to say that I've never more split on the tanking thing. Last year, I wanted them to rob, steal, and kill, anything that got a win. Now, with a talent like Beasley almost up for grabs, I don't know.

Here's to studying for a Final exam on the day after the last day of school! :buddies:

Shade
01-24-2008, 11:48 PM
Duh dude. Everybody can tell already.

http://subintsoc.net/images/2006/sr_20060519_dukakis_tank.jpg
Somebody put Jim O'Brien in that tank please.

Jim's way ahead of you:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/Shade20x6/obrientank.jpg

Bball
01-24-2008, 11:54 PM
I guess I should mention that Shawne sucked tonight. He looked confused at times and his shooting touch has left him. He looked like a guy who should be benched, not the player we saw earlier in the year or the player some think should be ahead of Dunleavy.

Maquis didn't exactly look very good either... But at times Shawne didn't even look like he wanted to be on the court. I didn't sense that with Marquis...

-Bball

Oneal07
01-24-2008, 11:59 PM
We played good for a bit. . .then slacked off. IF that's the case, at least play Stephen Graham. He shouldn't be the 12th man, especially if the team is playing like Ish

McKeyFan
01-25-2008, 12:00 AM
When the game got serious, Michael Redd took over and took the heart out of us.

We don't have one of them guys.

LG33
01-25-2008, 12:00 AM
Jim's way ahead of you:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/Shade20x6/obrientank.jpg

Hahahaha that's great.

Will Galen
01-25-2008, 12:02 AM
We lost this game in the 4th quarter when Williams replaced Danny and proceeded to dig us a ten point hole all by his lonesome. He missed shots and I know he turned the ball over twice in a row.

Slick even wondered out loud why O'B hadn't replaced him. I don't remember what Slick said exactly.

Players Win Score.
Daniels.....-3 This makes 3 games in a row he's hurt more than helped.
Diener......+4.5
Dunleavy..+13
Foster......+13
Graham.....00
Granger.....+7
Murphy.....+1.5
Owens......+2.5
Rush.........+5
Williams.....-4.5 He's been bad the last two games.

As soon as I get the book the Wages of Wins, I'll average out the players win score for the whole season. There's more to it than the scores above.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-25-2008, 12:12 AM
WE ARE AWESOME! ONCE AGAIN...WE ARE AWESOME!
WHO NEEDS JO OR TINSLEY....THIS TEAM IS AWESOME WITHOUT THEM! NOW ALL WE NEED TO DO IS GET RID OF THAT GRANGER GUY FOR PAT GARRITY AND WE WILL BE EVEN MORE AWESOME.

Oneal07
01-25-2008, 12:24 AM
Some of you guys are over-stressin' IT's not the end of the world

OnlyPacersLeft
01-25-2008, 12:50 AM
it's not the end of the world...right...but might as well be the offseason. So fun!

Shack80
01-25-2008, 12:51 AM
heat lose....15 in a row. We are right up their alley...I think i'll go root for jackson and the warriors...yeah I like rooting for underdogs plus i still like jackson and baby al.
And we are awesome i would just like to add! The tank is on! losing this next one to miami should be fun...I bet we lead by 15 then blow it in the 4th only to lose on a last 2nd fadeaway 3 by wade at the buzzer.

Super, good for you. Glad you found a home. Bye.

Evan_The_Dude
01-25-2008, 12:53 AM
I can't believe I'm starting to root for us to lose. It's too frustrating to root for us to win, so I'll make it easy on myself and my young heart.

jmoney2584
01-25-2008, 01:23 AM
I like all those photos of Jim O'Brien driving the tank...but let me take you on a journey, into MY mind...a little taste of how i see things right now....


AND I officially don't know how to make the picture appear without having to click the link..so..humor me...maybe?

Bball
01-25-2008, 01:28 AM
I was just thinking... What if we would've allowed the 00-01 season to go down the drain and acquired a top draft pick? Or moreso let the 01-02 season go down the drain instead of focusing on the playoffs at all costs (since in 00-01 we still had a little glow of the 00 Finals on us)?

Or even 02-03? What did 'saving' that season with the playoffs gain us?

I'm not arguing FOR the 'tank' but I am saying if the wheels are coming off, why not let them sometimes? Who cares if Player X gives a losing team a slightly better chance to win (IF he wants to play that night), if player Y could use the experience and probably has more of a future with the team (or you need to see him in game conditions to really know what you have in the first)?

-Bball

Kofi
01-25-2008, 01:36 AM
I like all those photos of Jim O'Brien driving the tank...but let me take you on a journey, into MY mind...a little taste of how i see things right now....


AND I officially don't know how to make the picture appear without having to click the link..so..humor me...maybe?

So we're somewhere just below the scum & grease and right above the sludge? That sounds about right. The Hawks and Kings would be the scum & grease and the Wolves would be the sludge.

jmoney2584
01-25-2008, 01:48 AM
Keep in mind, that middle stuff is like quick sand...we'll be in the sludge in no time. I think I am going to start cheering for the bottom teams to win now, they could use my support and it will help us fall into better lotto range.

jmoney2584
01-25-2008, 01:58 AM
Also, what is all this on Dunleavy "shaking himself"? Did he mess up a crossover and look real real white? or was he just having an epileptic stress out?

CableKC
01-25-2008, 02:07 AM
I'm reminded of an old Bob Knight quote:

[I]"If rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it."
Wow.....Knight said that? Geez......:hmm:

Doddage
01-25-2008, 08:16 AM
Surprised?

RomanGabriel
01-25-2008, 08:42 AM
Even though I'm hard-wired to root for Pacer victories I'm feeling a perverse relief with each defeat as we move up in the lottery ball race. As a compromise, I'm rooting like hell for the Bobcats, Bulls, Kings, et al. Has it been 25 years since our last top 5 pick (Stipanovich)?

Kofi
01-25-2008, 09:06 AM
Even though I'm hard-wired to root for Pacer victories I'm feeling a perverse relief with each defeat as we move up in the lottery ball race. As a compromise, I'm rooting like hell for the Bobcats, Bulls, Kings, et al. Has it been 25 years since our last top 5 pick (Stipanovich)?

Bender was drafted #5, but of our own picks, the last would be Rik Smits taken #2 in 1988.

indygeezer
01-25-2008, 09:10 AM
This sounds more like a Bird type player in my mind

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/brooklopez.html

Unclebuck
01-25-2008, 09:31 AM
I have not read any of this thread yet, but I did watch the entire game and I thought last night was just a case where the better team won. Pacers played OK, I can't really compain too much about their play - the effort was good, they tried to play the right way.

My greatest thought last night towards the end of the game is that I felt bad for Granger and Dunleavy - they did all they could.

The fact is this current team without JO and Jmaal just isn't very good - talent level is one of the worst in the NBA without those two guys.

let me read the thread now

Unclebuck
01-25-2008, 09:38 AM
I'm fine with Diener over Jamaal (of course you know I'd say that). At least Diener looks like he cares and he DOES push the ball and get the offense initiated quickly. And he's consistent. His lowest low is nowhere near Jamaal's lowest lows and his attitude is better. Neither can play defense, but again, Diener at least looks like he cares. Let me know the next time Diener goes "Tinsley" and pulls out the pouts or "oneupsmanship" crap.


-Bball

I agree completely about Travis. At the very least he's a guy that the fans can root for.

Sure it is frustrating to see the guys trying to win the game, playing hard, following the system and yet just not being good enough to win the game. But right now I enjoy watching the team more without JO and Jamaal.

The Pacers bench last night was horrid - every last one of them was just terrible. But I am concerned about Daniels. I have to assume he isn't healthy, because he hasn't played a good game in a month or so.

jeffg-body
01-25-2008, 11:19 AM
I agree that I would rather see Travis play because he looks like he wants to be there, gives effort and listens to coach.

LG33
01-25-2008, 11:31 AM
This sounds more like a Bird type player in my mind

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/brooklopez.html

A twin from Stanford? I can't see how that could go wrong...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2001/draft/images/players/jason_collins.jpg

Mourning
01-25-2008, 02:05 PM
WE ARE AWESOME! ONCE AGAIN...WE ARE AWESOME!
WHO NEEDS JO OR TINSLEY....THIS TEAM IS AWESOME WITHOUT THEM! NOW ALL WE NEED TO DO IS GET RID OF THAT GRANGER GUY FOR PAT GARRITY AND WE WILL BE EVEN MORE AWESOME.

Ehmm... weren't you the dude that said we would go to the second round last year and definitely make the play-offs this year?

Sometimes you have to suck before you get better, that time is now, though I maintain we should have worked about getting better earlier (by trading away JO in 2006 and Jamaal in 2007) instead of these "patches". Sure, we are likely to suck next year too, but that's a result of not making the moves when we (long)needed to make them. Think about the bright spot... we are bound to get a good pick next year aswell ;).

With all of that said... I still love the Pacers and always will. And I will always keep following their games. Even in badtimes.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Naptown_Seth
01-25-2008, 02:33 PM
Once again, without JO we do a better job on defense of closing out on people coming open behind the arc, but our guards cannot stop the penetration. True, you could have JO in there playing goalie, but then we collapse inside on penetration and can't recover for the kick out.
The Bucks go 38.7% from 3 on 31 attempts and you feel good about it? Do you dislike JO that much?

Sorry, but I'll keep the 38% and at least reduce the 2pt% down enough so they don't go 47% overall. Also on the year they've allowed 37.4% from deep. Now I don't know how that breaks down with and without JO, but I'm guessing the average with him is about that. Certainly the 47 was higher than the 44 they've been giving up on the year.

So I don't really see the positive impact of no JO out there. To me it's been pretty awful, and considering how much he was struggling on offense it's something to actually get worse without him.


Now Diener I'm fine with...as a backup. He's a great energy guy that can get hot from deep. That's a nice bump from the bench. But he can get dominated by quality starters both in the post and even on the other end protecting his dribble (he lost an ugly one in the lane during the 4th for example).

They either need JO healthy or need him moved. And clearly they can't go on with Tinsley as their starter. He's back to being injured every other day as well, or benched secretly or who knows. It's 100% identical to how it was under Rick. I don't want him gone because he was shot at, I want him gone because he's an unreliable PG.

Naptown_Seth
01-25-2008, 02:39 PM
I was just thinking... What if we would've allowed the 00-01 season to go down the drain and acquired a top draft pick? Or moreso let the 01-02 season go down the drain instead of focusing on the playoffs at all costs (since in 00-01 we still had a little glow of the 00 Finals on us)?

Or even 02-03? What did 'saving' that season with the playoffs gain us?

I'm not arguing FOR the 'tank' but I am saying if the wheels are coming off, why not let them sometimes? Who cares if Player X gives a losing team a slightly better chance to win (IF he wants to play that night), if player Y could use the experience and probably has more of a future with the team (or you need to see him in game conditions to really know what you have in the first)?

-Bball
I do agree with this. I'm anti-tank because it just sends the wrong message to the roster. The Celtics got LUCKY to save things with deals. Had they continued with just draft picks after that tank job you can bet that morale would be low and the losses high.

But you have youth that you want to make decisions on, NEED to make decisions on. Time to run Shawne, Ike, Danny plenty (DG already is of course). And you still need to feel out Rush and Diener I suppose. Perhaps you could cut back on Jeff's time a bit and let his body catch up some, save him for next year.

Then again, what if they get hot and make a run? IMO you have to go for it because no future is certain. Get it while you can. The brawl season following the ECF upset should have taught us all that.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-25-2008, 02:47 PM
Also, what is all this on Dunleavy "shaking himself"? Did he mess up a crossover and look real real white? or was he just having an epileptic stress out?
dunleavy was on a fast break and he tryed to cross over i think it was charlie bell? And bell wasn't even really that close to him and dunleavy tripped over his own feet and fell to the ground...LOL
Turning the ball over and leading to a fast break bucket on the other end...awesome!

OnlyPacersLeft
01-25-2008, 02:50 PM
Ehmm... weren't you the dude that said we would go to the second round last year and definitely make the play-offs this year?

Sometimes you have to suck before you get better, that time is now, though I maintain we should have worked about getting better earlier (by trading away JO in 2006 and Jamaal in 2007) instead of these "patches". Sure, we are likely to suck next year too, but that's a result of not making the moves when we (long)needed to make them. Think about the bright spot... we are bound to get a good pick next year aswell ;).

With all of that said... I still love the Pacers and always will. And I will always keep following their games. Even in badtimes.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

I'm a homer...what can I say? I still think my seminoles are going to win the national title every year...LOL

it's just kind of frustrating when you know the talent level could be there and we don't utilize it. Granger should be an all star...so should tinsley...we shouldn't be this bad but we are.

jmoney2584
01-25-2008, 03:10 PM
dunleavy was on a fast break and he tryed to cross over i think it was charlie bell? And bell wasn't even really that close to him and dunleavy tripped over his own feet and fell to the ground...LOL
Turning the ball over and leading to a fast break bucket on the other end...awesome!

ahhh hahaha clownin'

The Hustler
01-25-2008, 03:17 PM
The Bucks go 38.7% from 3 on 31 attempts and you feel good about it? Do you dislike JO that much?

Sorry, but I'll keep the 38% and at least reduce the 2pt% down enough so they don't go 47% overall. Also on the year they've allowed 37.4% from deep. Now I don't know how that breaks down with and without JO, but I'm guessing the average with him is about that. Certainly the 47 was higher than the 44 they've been giving up on the year.

So I don't really see the positive impact of no JO out there. To me it's been pretty awful, and considering how much he was struggling on offense it's something to actually get worse without him.


Now Diener I'm fine with...as a backup. He's a great energy guy that can get hot from deep. That's a nice bump from the bench. But he can get dominated by quality starters both in the post and even on the other end protecting his dribble (he lost an ugly one in the lane during the 4th for example).

They either need JO healthy or need him moved. And clearly they can't go on with Tinsley as their starter. He's back to being injured every other day as well, or benched secretly or who knows. It's 100% identical to how it was under Rick. I don't want him gone because he was shot at, I want him gone because he's an unreliable PG.



THANKYOU SIR!

I am so glad that you have said this, i thought the entire forum was goin crazy! I have been catching up on a lot of reading and i am shocked by so much "We are better with J.O. and Tins". I'm sorry, but, maybe on the odd occasion we play good basketball without them, but overall, i see no doubt that we can't reach the same level without them as we can with them, even if neither level is particularly high!

Thank-you again! You have saved my confidence in this forum!

Young
01-25-2008, 03:18 PM
I do agree with this. I'm anti-tank because it just sends the wrong message to the roster. The Celtics got LUCKY to save things with deals. Had they continued with just draft picks after that tank job you can bet that morale would be low and the losses high.

Yeah I know I have said this before but if you wanna win big your gonna have to get lucky somewhere.

I consider Joe Dumars pretty damn lucky to have gotten Rasheed Wallace for pretty much nothing. It's why they won that championship that year. Now I have a lot of respect for Joe but to be able to get Rasheed at the price he did, that took some luck.

The Spurs are pretty lucky that they landed the number one pick in 1997. That got them Tim Duncan. The 1rst overall pick in 1998 would have gotten them Michael Olowokandi.

Never under estimate the value of luck.

jmoney2584
01-25-2008, 03:26 PM
In terms of luck...

Our biggest weakness has been the guard spot since Reggie retired, it is just our luck that the best guard in the draft comes from Indy. I don't know how it could be more story book perfect. Let's do this thing Sonnnn

Shade
01-25-2008, 03:29 PM
Yeah I know I have said this before but if you wanna win big your gonna have to get lucky somewhere.

I consider Joe Dumars pretty damn lucky to have gotten Rasheed Wallace for pretty much nothing. It's why they won that championship that year. Now I have a lot of respect for Joe but to be able to get Rasheed at the price he did, that took some luck.

The Spurs are pretty lucky that they landed the number one pick in 1997. That got them Tim Duncan. The 1rst overall pick in 1998 would have gotten them Michael Olowokandi.

Never under estimate the value of luck.

Not to mention how lucky the Heat were at the time to get the players they did below market value.

The Celtics and Heat also acquired some nice draft picks and prospects for a few years, then took a plunge for a superstar.

We need to focus on rebuilding, acquiring high draft picks and young players toiling away needlessly on other teams' benches, with the foresight to make a run at free agents (or a trade for a superstar) when TinMurphLeavy's contracts all come off the books in three years. By then, we'll also have JO's deal off the books, and we can make a run at putting together a serious contender. The LAST thing we want to do right now is take on any contracts longer than 3 years in length.

Shade
01-25-2008, 03:30 PM
Btw, I don't ever WANT the Pacers to tank, but I can live with them doing so unintentionally, especially if it's due primarily to our developing our young players.

Midwest Hoops
01-25-2008, 03:42 PM
Seth wrote: Now Diener I'm fine with...as a backup. He's a great energy guy that can get hot from deep. That's a nice bump from the bench. But he can get dominated by quality starters both in the post and even on the other end protecting his dribble (he lost an ugly one in the lane during the 4th for example).


While I am not yet ready to declare Diener a starter on a good team I do have to question this comment. He is not a great defender and bigger points will hurt him. However, if we are comparing him to the Pacer's current starting point, I would argue that he is every bit as good a defender. At least he tries. I would not be unhappy if Diener was to get big minutes for an extended time to see what type of numbers he could put up. I suspect he would get you the 8+ assists that Tins gives w/ none of the drama. As far as the turnover comment, are you kidding? He played 40 minutes last night w/ ONE turnover. What the heck do you want from your point? I'll take 9-1 asst-t.o every single day.

Bball
01-25-2008, 03:43 PM
The Bucks go 38.7% from 3 on 31 attempts and you feel good about it? Do you dislike JO that much?

Sorry, but I'll keep the 38% and at least reduce the 2pt% down enough so they don't go 47% overall. Also on the year they've allowed 37.4% from deep. Now I don't know how that breaks down with and without JO, but I'm guessing the average with him is about that. Certainly the 47 was higher than the 44 they've been giving up on the year.

So I don't really see the positive impact of no JO out there. To me it's been pretty awful, and considering how much he was struggling on offense it's something to actually get worse without him.

Maybe it balances out... I dunno (but I don't think so)... When JO is in our defense is prone to collapsing inside but then not recovering on a shooter. Without him, that seems to happen less. OTOH, last night the Bucks were able to get their 3's just be picking off their defender.

So if we have better defense on the perimeter (guards), that doesn't happen so much. Neither would the penetration. Stop the penetration and we don't need JO playing goalie. Guard the perimeter better and we don't allow so much penetration nor wide open looks outside in the first place.

It seems to me if we had JO in there we're always going to be in situations where the ball goes inside, the defense collapses, and then (due to JO's slowness? His tendency to want to block shots? ??) we're still prone for the kick out to an open shooter.



Now Diener I'm fine with...as a backup. He's a great energy guy that can get hot from deep. That's a nice bump from the bench. But he can get dominated by quality starters both in the post and even on the other end protecting his dribble (he lost an ugly one in the lane during the 4th for example).

I'm fine with Diener as a backup as well... but there's no one I really want as starter on the roster so might as well let Diener do it until we find a starter.



They either need JO healthy or need him moved. And clearly they can't go on with Tinsley as their starter. He's back to being injured every other day as well, or benched secretly or who knows. It's 100% identical to how it was under Rick. I don't want him gone because he was shot at, I want him gone because he's an unreliable PG.

They need JO moved. I think health is only part of the problem... He's been slow for a while (granted that could be health BUT at this point it is what it is... he's not getting better). He's never hit a good percentage from the floor. ....Yet we've slowed the game down for him and it's gotten us nowhere these past few years. It's a recipe for chemistry issues focusing so much on one player that the other players' games suffer (especially when that one player doesn't come thru). Players should sacrifice their games for the good of the team... but sacrificing your game for a PF who is more prone to clank a fadeaway than go hard to the rim or score in another way isn't going to make that sacrifice feel very good. It's JO that needs to sacrifice his game.

Yes, JO blocks shots. Yes, he takes charges. I'm impressed with the charges... at least I have been. I'm thinking his desire to block shots (and positioning for them) is what is causing hesitation in the lineup/rotations and allowing our defense not to recover out on shooters. I wonder sometimes if he's getting into positions for a charge (that then doesn't happen) and not keeping his man in check or the rest of the offense. But in any case, JO is slow. It's pretty easy to hang around the basket and call your shots on defense. But if there's a system in place, maybe that hanging around to play goalie and grab some stats (blocks) isn't actually helping the overall defense?

The funny thing is, we lose with JO, he takes a seat on the bench with his injuries. Then we lose without him and everyone starts talking about how much we miss him.

We don't miss him at all. At best, JO's presence doesn't make any difference to our W/L record... and at worst (what I believe) he actually hurts it.

Good Tinsley makes us better (and I think even Tinsley is better without JO on the court).... But Bad Tinsley hurts us whether JO is there or not.

Tinsley is the player that makes a difference, not JO.

But Tinsley's inconsistency and bad attitude are not good. Nor is his injury history or 'deactivations' or whatever...

The sooner those two are moved, the sooner we can start reconnecting with the fans.

-Bball

CableKC
01-25-2008, 03:46 PM
Btw, I don't ever WANT the Pacers to tank, but I can live with them doing so unintentionally, especially if it's due primarily to our developing our young players.
I have no problems playing Granger, Shawne and Ike ( if he truly fits or not )....alongside Dunleavy, Deiner ( both players that I think will be with us beyond the 2009/2010 season ) and Foster ( who I hope that we can resign to a reasonable contract ) to develop them and build some chemistry among that particular core of players.

The only possible downside in this is that I can totally see Rush continue to play the way that he has been playing and then price himself out of the Pacers wallet books when he becomes a free Agent in the offseason.