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ABADays
01-24-2008, 08:23 PM
I heard somewhere, please don't ask for a link, that the thought is Miami is now tanking the season. This has got to be it for Shaq. But at the All-Star break!?! The race for the lottery will be interesting.

Shade
01-24-2008, 08:41 PM
I'm calling it now; Miami will end their losing streak against us.

Kofi
01-24-2008, 08:52 PM
I don't think they're tanking on purpose, they're just not a very good team. Too many injuries, too many has beens.

Los Angeles
01-24-2008, 08:54 PM
I don't think they're tanking on purpose, they're just not a very good team. Too many injuries, too many has beens.

And one championship.

Kofi
01-24-2008, 09:12 PM
And one championship.

I would've loved to have seen what a team built on Wade, Butler, and Odom could've done. Considering that championship was 90% Wade, and how good Butler has become, I have no doubt they'd be an elite team contending for a title for the next decade.

Rajah Brown
01-24-2008, 09:47 PM
Hey, if I was them, I'd be looking forward to adding a Beasley at SF or
a Rose at PG to pair with Wade in the backcourt too. At this point,
as much as they suck, winning accomplishes little for them.

MyFavMartin
01-24-2008, 09:57 PM
I heard somewhere, please don't ask for a link, that the thought is Miami is now tanking the season. This has got to be it for Shaq. But at the All-Star break!?! The race for the lottery will be interesting.

They've been in the games. They just struggle down the stretch.

They were giving SA all they could tonight and had a lead at half-time. Blount had 15 pts at the break.

They've got Chris Quinn playing for them. It's not a sign that they're tanking... just that desperate for talent and decimated by the trade fro Ricky Davis, which didn't help talent-wise, and injuries (Shaq and Zo and Wade coming off surgery).

OnlyPacersLeft
01-24-2008, 11:49 PM
naw they arent tanking...they still believe they can make the playoffs...and I am 100% sure they stop the losing streak vs us. I'd bet w/e money i had on the heat. NO WAY do we beat them...

RamBo_Lamar
01-25-2008, 12:35 AM
I don't know about Miami, but it is sure starting to look to me like the Pacers
are the ones that are tanking.

At least they are getting an early enough start to get it right this year.

CableKC
01-25-2008, 01:27 AM
To Tank or Not to Tank?

This question has come up way earlier this season then last year. :banghead:

Can someone dig up that "tank thread" from last season?

Given what you know about the Pacers now.....would your opinion of tanking or not change from last year to now?

jmoney2584
01-25-2008, 01:37 AM
To Tank or Not to Tank?

Last year I think it was feasable to go with the wait and see approach. We had new guys coming in under a coach who most felt was gone soon and whose players he DID have were tuning him out. There was JO trade talk (he had SOME value at this point), and just a lot of overall speculation regarding our roster. This year...TANK IT! We have a good draft coming up, the talent we have isn't going to win us anything this year. It also isn't talent we can trade for greater talent...the balance of life dosen't work as such. You can't trade known medicore talent for GREAT talent...at least not in this hemisphere. We just need a rebuild and a fresh start. The coaching change relieved a lot of people but the fan base still isn't feeling this team and deserves something new. We may lose for several years, but it will be fun watching a young FRESH team mature and grow.

croz24
01-25-2008, 01:45 AM
we need to tank AND do our best to acquire at least one more mid-early 1st rounder for this 2008 draft!

jmoney2584
01-25-2008, 01:50 AM
I fully believe it is wrong to pray for things like landing picks #1 AND #2 in the draft, but I'm real close to trying it..

tdubb03
01-25-2008, 03:03 AM
Wade and Beasley would be a helluva duo...

I'm almost to the point that I wouldn't be that upset with "tanking." Of course, talk to me in April after 6 weeks and I'll be ready to be a Bulls fan (not really). But seriously, I really feel like Eric Gordon is the cure-all for the Pacers. Even w/o trades, the year his rookie deal would be expiring and he'd get a max deal would be the year JO becomes a FA. That doesn't explain how we keep Danny and Shawne though.

If we don't wanna tank, trade Jeff to someone like SA for a late first and an expiring. Try and work our two firsts into a top 3. Jeff deserves better than this.

croz24
01-25-2008, 05:06 AM
thank you tdubb for acknowledging that we should trade jeff. jeff is a great piece for a team with true playoff aspirations...thus NOT the pacers. and he does deserve better than this. there are MANY teams, esp out west, who would trade their 1st for jeff...phoenix anyone?

Eindar
01-25-2008, 06:08 AM
I would think Jeff would have very high value at the trade deadline. He's really one of the few guys in the entire league that can contain Tim Duncan on a regular basis, he's a great teammate, and a rebounding machine on a very, very reasonable salary. One would think that a team out West (LA or Phoenix, likely) would want him if they plan on getting around San Antonio this year. Seems like you should be able to get a piece or two from them for Jeff. In fact, with LA so thin up front, I wonder if they wouldn't do Crittenton + filler for Jeff.

As for tanking, I'm against sitting guys to prevent winning like the Celtics did last year. As time showed, karma catches up with that kind of behavior (slipping out of the top 2, not getting KG). But, I say let JO take the entire season, and put the focus on developing talent. Give Ike and Shawne 20+ minutes every game. Look to get picks or more young talent at the trade deadline (You don't think we'd have a spot for Crittenton in this lineup?). If that strategy lands us a top 5 pick, so be it. If not, we still developed some guys and played hard.

aero
01-25-2008, 06:13 AM
If for whatever reason we tank this year, and end up getting a top 5 pick i say we throw a party...

Doddage
01-25-2008, 07:29 AM
I really hope that this is what we're doing right now. The solution for the P's is indeed to tank and do everything in its power to land Gordon and preferably someone else in the draft. It appears like we're phasing out JO (hopefully) so we should look into grabbing another pick to get a TRUE center, i.e. a Hibbert or Thabeet. That, however, would be hard seeing as both of those are lotto picks and we probably can't find a suitor that would give us a lotto pick for any of our assets. Maybe we can find a way to get a lotto for Granger (I have no problem letting him go TBH). That way we'd have a solid backcourt and frontcourt player to build the team around.

BillS
01-25-2008, 08:33 AM
*headdesk*

Does anyone here <i>ever</i> think just how devastated we will be when we tank the season and end up with the third pick?

Folks act like the number 1 pick is a lock when a team ends with the worst record. You have to bet that if Miami or New York stay down in that range the league will do everything in its power to get one of them that top pick.

Read my lips - the Pacers will not get a number 1 pick, even if we were to go 0-82 some year.

dgranger
01-25-2008, 08:40 AM
They played really hard against the Spurs last night and lost by 1 so I dont THINK they are tanking.

Kofi
01-25-2008, 08:58 AM
*headdesk*

Does anyone here <i>ever</i> think just how devastated we will be when we tank the season and end up with the third pick?

Folks act like the number 1 pick is a lock when a team ends with the worst record. You have to bet that if Miami or New York stay down in that range the league will do everything in its power to get one of them that top pick.

Read my lips - the Pacers will not get a number 1 pick, even if we were to go 0-82 some year.

No one here would be upset with the #3 pick in the draft. In fact, most would be thrilled.

Unclebuck
01-25-2008, 09:16 AM
I realize this is supposed to be a humourous thread, lighthearted and all. But as someone who spends money going to the games - I find the whole discussion about "tanking" offensive. Especially midway through the season

LoneGranger33
01-25-2008, 10:25 AM
WE CAN'T TANK!
EVEN IF WE WANTED TO, ALL THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE EAST WOULD CONTINUE TO SUCK ALONGSIDE US.

I'd rather just play all the young guys extensive minutes, let Jermaine rest, and hope for the best.

Hicks
01-25-2008, 10:52 AM
As long as JO's out and Tinsley is out, I think it will take care of itself. Really if they both just go away this might be the best way: We slide into a single digit draft pick (a range of picks I sure as hell would welcome this June) while the rest of the roster plays hard every night.

NuffSaid
01-25-2008, 11:20 AM
I'm calling it now; Miami will end their losing streak against us.
I was thinking the same thing.

If you're a team on a losing skid, just circle the date you play the Pacers on your calendar and rest assured your losing streak will be over!

If you're a player and you're in a scoring slump, never fear! If your team is schedule to play the Pacers soon, your slumping days will be over! You'll rack up 30 pts like you've done it for years! Piece of cake!! :banghead:

CableKC
01-25-2008, 12:01 PM
I was thinking the same thing.

If you're a team on a losing skid, just circle the date you play the Pacers on your calendar and rest assured your losing streak will be over!

If you're a player and you're in a scoring slump, never fear! If your team is schedule to play the Pacers soon, your slumping days will be over! You'll rack up 30 pts like you've done it for years! Piece of cake!! :banghead:
That's what Wade is thinking now......."We have a 15-game losing streak now, but we're playing the Pacers tomorrow".

Unfortunately, what you are saying is true. I'm predicting that Cook and Haslem will have season-high scoring games against us.

CableKC
01-25-2008, 12:05 PM
As long as JO's out and Tinsley is out, I think it will take care of itself. Really if they both just go away this might be the best way: We slide into a single digit draft pick (a range of picks I sure as hell would welcome this June) while the rest of the roster plays hard every night.
That's my thinking. We dont have to intentionally tank.......we will play hard, try to win games and ( more then likely ) unintentionally end up tanking.

We're just not that good. I wouldn't mind resting JONeal as long as we can, play him by early March and then make a solid push for the Playoffs....win or lose. Hopefully, he will be healthy enough to make a difference in the Playoffs.

Rajah Brown
01-25-2008, 12:42 PM
I'd be thrilled with the #3 pick. Either EJ, Rose or Beasley
would be fine by me. Either of the first two would be a major
boost in the backcourt. And Beasley could either be traded
or kept with Granger then becoming expendable (though in
O'B's system, Beasley might be the perfect PF).

To paraphrase Al Davis, just tank baby !

ABADays
01-25-2008, 01:22 PM
For the first time ever I see Foster getting moved. I wouldn't like it but he can make a difference for a contending team and there is no question he deserves better than this.

Naptown_Seth
01-25-2008, 01:59 PM
I don't know about Miami, but it is sure starting to look to me like the Pacers
are the ones that are tanking.

At least they are getting an early enough start to get it right this year.
To me it just looks like a repeat of last season. That wasn't a tank, that was a team without enough talent partially caused by injuries and partially caused by an unwise trade. They swapped to a coach with a slightly less W-L record, made no other serious changes, and here we are again. Kinda, sorta not good but not elite awful either.

As for Miami, they might start tanking now, but they got where they are by being bad in the first place. They didn't tank the first 20-25 games for certain. And in the East with teams like Indy and NJ having legit playoff hopes I think Miami had to feel like a week or two ago they were still in it.


I do agree with Kofi on the situation, that team had talent and didn't need Shaq to win it all. They rode Wade in that series, and as it was they barely pulled it off. That's a lot of problems to go through for a game 7 win over Detroit AND coming back vs Dallas after being down 0-2. Fail in either of those places and you don't have the ring and still have the current situation.

I don't think 4-5 years of horrible losing is worth a 20% shot at a title, maybe 15% or even less.

Did Miami really make a better move than Phoenix just because of the one ring? Personally I would rather have been a Suns fan up till now and obviously going forward from this point.


For the Pacers, if you can't move JO in a way that opens up true rebuild options then just sit him for the season ala David Robinson. What's to gain if he plays? On the other hand if he sits and can actually return to pretty good JO form you effectively "add" him to the roster along with a top pick, and perhaps another adjustment via trade. You might yet do something positive with JO under contract. I'd be happy with a legit run at the 2nd round next year.


*headdesk*

Does anyone here ever think just how devastated we will be when we tank the season and end up with the third pick?

Folks act like the number 1 pick is a lock when a team ends with the worst record. You have to bet that if Miami or New York stay down in that range the league will do everything in its power to get one of them that top pick.

Read my lips - the Pacers will not get a number 1 pick, even if we were to go 0-82 some year.
Luckily they don't need the #1 pick this year. In fact that could be more troublesome with the 2nd guessing it would bring. A pick 4-8 could still have some impact.

BTW, for those keeping track, let's say the Pacers tanked into the Acie Law pick and forced ATL to wait another year. Well this year they would have to give up not just a pick 11+ but also 9 and 10 as well. Personally I'd rather have the #9 this year than the #10 last year.

CableKC
01-25-2008, 02:19 PM
I don't think 4-5 years of horrible losing is worth a 20% shot at a title, maybe 15% or even less.


For the Pacers, if you can't move JO in a way that opens up true rebuild options then just sit him for the season ala David Robinson. What's to gain if he plays? On the other hand if he sits and can actually return to pretty good JO form you effectively "add" him to the roster along with a top pick, and perhaps another adjustment via trade. You might yet do something positive with JO under contract. I'd be happy with a legit run at the 2nd round next year.

Luckily they don't need the #1 pick this year. In fact that could be more troublesome with the 2nd guessing it would bring. A pick 4-8 could still have some impact

Can you expand on what you are saying above?

I recall that you are one of the "don't tank" groups last season....it just seems that you're ( obviously ) not as optimistic about any chance that we have for anything this season. I'm not sure if you are suggesting that we "tank"....or if you think that we are so mediocre, that it doesn't matter if we intentionally "tank or not"...it won't make a difference THIS season....the end result will be the same. :shrug:


BTW, for those keeping track, let's say the Pacers tanked into the Acie Law pick and forced ATL to wait another year. Well this year they would have to give up not just a pick 11+ but also 9 and 10 as well. Personally I'd rather have the #9 this year than the #10 last year.
I know that we lucked out on this.....but I consider it "dumb luck" rather then "good luck" :shrug:. We sucked just enough to lose out on a Playoff spot....but we didn't suck enough to get that 10th pick. Either way....we sucked in the end :banghead:.

Maybe it's a good thing.....if Bird had the 10th pick...he may have picked Spencer Hawes :rolleyes:

OnlyPacersLeft
01-25-2008, 02:42 PM
If for whatever reason we tank this year, and end up getting a top 5 pick i say we throw a party...
or during the summer we throw a party anyways like we have in the past!
:dance:

Indianapolis_girly
01-25-2008, 03:57 PM
I realize this is supposed to be a humourous thread, lighthearted and all. But as someone who spends money going to the games - I find the whole discussion about "tanking" offensive. Especially midway through the season
Exactly how I feel. Getting season tickets just to see the Pacers "tank" isn't very cool. Especially since I live over an hour away from Indy anyways. A lot of gas money and cash used just to see a team lose, I hope it doesn't come down to "tanking". :o

RamBo_Lamar
01-25-2008, 04:43 PM
Took a look at the league's recent standings:

http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html

Didn't realize how many teams are doing worse, if not much worse than the
Pacers are right now. There are a few teams that look like they would be
lucky to get as many wins by the end of the season as we have right now (19).

I can't see us losing to the point of having a realistic chance of getting a top
five draft pick. Possibly a pick before #10, but it's going to take some awefully
hard tanking and tossing the rest of the season out the window altogether
to make it happen.

It may be depressing to think about now, but it looks like we need to make
some sort of sacrifice to help forge a brighter future to look forward to.

CableKC
01-25-2008, 05:11 PM
Took a look at the league's recent standings:

http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html

Didn't realize how many teams are doing worse, if not much worse than the
Pacers are right now. There are a few teams that look like they would be
lucky to get as many wins by the end of the season as we have right now (19).

I can't see us losing to the point of having a realistic chance of getting a top
five draft pick. Possibly a pick before #10, but it's going to take some awefully
hard tanking and tossing the rest of the season out the window altogether
to make it happen.

It may be depressing to think about now, but it looks like we need to make
some sort of sacrifice to help forge a brighter future to look forward to.
With how bad teams in the East are playing....my guess is that we would probably have to win no more then 25-26 wins in order to ensure that we have the 5th Worst record in the league....therefore a remote chance of landing a lottery pick to get within distance of drafting Eric Gordon.

But I am guessing that ( regardless of when JONeal returns ) we will likely end up with 34-39 wins....just like last year......not good enough to get to the Playoffs but good enough to earn us a 11 to 14th Draft pick :banghead:

As long as we play the youngin's, I don't mind if we try to compete and end up "unintentionally" tanking.

JayRedd
01-25-2008, 05:45 PM
[Miami] still believe[s] they can make the playoffs...

No they don't.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-25-2008, 06:09 PM
Exactly how I feel. Getting season tickets just to see the Pacers "tank" isn't very cool. Especially since I live over an hour away from Indy anyways. A lot of gas money and cash used just to see a team lose, I hope it doesn't come down to "tanking". :o
you one of those girls that wears a jersey 2 the game?
JW...

OnlyPacersLeft
01-25-2008, 06:12 PM
No they don't.
how do you figure that? they are playing to win every night. They deff are not tanking...

OnlyPacersLeft
01-25-2008, 06:22 PM
oh just thought i'd point out we are still in the 8th seed of the playoffs...LOL
http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html

JayRedd
01-25-2008, 06:29 PM
how do you figure that? they are playing to win every night. They deff are not tanking...

They gotta go 31-10 in order to finish .500.

Not saying they're not trying to win...just trying to say that Dwyane and Riley aren't stupid. No one on that team thinks they're playing .750 ball from here on out. Not even uber-mathmaticians like Ricardo Davis.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-25-2008, 06:30 PM
True...so maybe they should tank the game vs us...;)

Kofi
01-25-2008, 09:05 PM
THE THINK TANK - January 25

Here are tonights games featuring teams below us in the standings, with said teams being bolded. Remember - you want these teams to WIN in order to move the Pacers up the draft board.

Grizzlies vs Wizards

Bucks vs Raptors

Timberwolves vs Celtics

76ers vs Knicks (one teams guaranteed to win! Yes!)

Clippers vs Hornets

Bobcats vs Bulls (another guaranteed win by a team below us. Woohoo!)

Nets vs Nuggets

Hawks vs Supersonics (you'd actually be better of rooting for the Hawks here, as Seattle is likely too far ahead (below) us at this point to be caught, and the Hawks are only a few games ahead of us for the 7th spot in the East)

Also, the Kings are just percentage points ahead of us, so root for them to upset the Jazz tonight.

NuffSaid
01-26-2008, 12:17 AM
I was thinking the same thing.

If you're a team on a losing skid, just circle the date you play the Pacers on your calendar and rest assured your losing streak will be over!

If you're a player and you're in a scoring slump, never fear! If your team is schedule to play the Pacers soon, your slumping days will be over! You'll rack up 30 pts like you've done it for years! Piece of cake!! :banghead:
Ain't this a kick in the head!

The two teams that recently beat the Pacers (Bulls and Bucks) both loss their next games!

Bucks/Raptors, 75-106 (http://www.nba.com/games/20080125/MILTOR/boxscore.html); Redd, 12 pts on 5-14 FG/1-7 3PA.

Bulls/Bobcats, 77-90 (http://www.nba.com/games/20080125/CHACHI/boxscore.html); Hinrich, 14 pts on 6-16 FG/0-4 3PA.

It's official! Teams and/or players that are struggling just circle the date you play these guys and know that your losing streak will be over or you'll definitely shoot yourself out of a slump.

Sad...just plain sad. :(

VF21
01-26-2008, 01:49 AM
Also, the Kings are just percentage points ahead of us, so root for them to upset the Jazz tonight.

The stellar performance of Ron Artest so stirred the home town fans they energized their team to victory.

Unfortunately the Kings were playing on the road and the home town fans who were motivated into cheering louder than ever before were the UTAH JAZZ fans, for whom Artest was in full performance mode with chest-pounding, kiss throwing, jeering, etc. His scuffles with Matt Harpring and AK-47 added more fuel to the flames and his ejection in the second half pretty much sealed the fate for the Kings.

And, sadly enough, Kevin Martin had 32 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists and only one turnover in the game tonight but that has been totally overshadowed by discussion of the TruWarier.

Is there a projectile vomiting emoticon around here left over from the days when he was your problem and not ours?

:(

Hicks
01-26-2008, 11:10 AM
Is there a projectile vomiting emoticon around here left over from the days when he was your problem and not ours?

:(

:puke:

May I also suggest:

:suicide:

:suicide2:

:suicide3:

:suicide4:

:suicide5:

:picard:

VF21
01-26-2008, 08:50 PM
Ah, I knew you all would understand. I don't mean to hijack this thread but I come here for solace at times...

There are people on my board at this very moment, arguing about the stress poor RonRon is undergoing and how this isn't the same Ron Artest as before and that he won't blow up while he's with the Kings...

Of course, I think a couple of them are dancing around the Maypole and waiting for the Easter bunny to appear...

I'm changing my avatar. Thanks, Mal.

Indianapolis_girly
01-27-2008, 06:58 PM
you one of those girls that wears a jersey 2 the game?
JW...
Yep, Jermaine or Danny jersey, depends on who's playing in the game.
Been wearing the Danny jersey a bunch lately, and will be for awhile it seems like. :cry:

dgranger
01-27-2008, 07:54 PM
If we tank we will still get a number 14 pick or something stupid. The East is week. Try to win and get the 7th or 8th seed, and if we cant...we really need a top 5 pick. Also does anyone notice how we seem to play at the level of our opponents?

Kofi
01-27-2008, 08:51 PM
The Pacers appear to be on their way to finally landing a top-5 pick.

BlueNGold
01-27-2008, 09:09 PM
The Pacers appear to be on their way to finally landing a top-5 pick.

I wish. February looks promising and should get us aligned for a top 10 pick. Unfortunately, the last 15 games of the season should put us back to no man's land between a top 10 and the playoffs. IMO, we finish with 33-34 wins and land around a #11 pick.

owl
01-27-2008, 10:00 PM
I wish. February looks promising and should get us aligned for a top 10 pick. Unfortunately, the last 15 games of the season should put us back to no man's land between a top 10 and the playoffs. IMO, we finish with 33-34 wins and land around a #11 pick.


That is how I see it. The East is really bad and I remember last year the Pacers went on
a major losing streak and gained no ground in the lottery. It is still very possible the Pacers make the playoffs.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-27-2008, 10:00 PM
lmao@NJ losing to the wolves...still in the 8th spot...lol this is awesome...I imagine tho the easy schedule NJ has coming up no way do we stay there. I suggest not watching the piston game it can only upset you so much.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-27-2008, 10:08 PM
Yep, Jermaine or Danny jersey, depends on who's playing in the game.
Been wearing the Danny jersey a bunch lately, and will be for awhile it seems like. :cry:

How old are you? just wondering

LoneGranger33
01-27-2008, 10:12 PM
How old are you? just wondering

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc7/Edgehead89/hansen.jpg

jmoney2584
01-27-2008, 10:16 PM
So we have officially lost to the bottom teams in both the EC and the WC with a bleak schedule ahead through february, this is the time...the time is now...there can be only one, and we are not even close. tank it

BlueNGold
01-27-2008, 10:18 PM
That is how I see it. The East is really bad and I remember last year the Pacers went on
a major losing streak and gained no ground in the lottery. It is still very possible the Pacers make the playoffs.

Our problem last year was the fact we needed top 10 to get a first round pick. This year we don't have that problem. Every loss is another step up the ladder. lol.

...but sadly, it's tough to draft a difference maker or even a potential soon to be starter without being in the top 7 or 8 in the draft....and I seriously doubt we pick that high. ...and there's no guarantee you even get a rotation guy at #11. However, I do think it's likely the player picked at #11 sticks in the league for awhile at least.

At #11 last year, Acie Law, Sean Williams, Marco Belinelli, Morris Almond, among others were still available. I have to believe Acie Law would have been close to being a Pacer. :(

jeffg-body
01-27-2008, 10:35 PM
Remember tanking the season doesn't guarantee a top draft pick, ask Boston last year. They tanked and still got screwed by the lottery balls.

:laugh:

BlueNGold
01-27-2008, 10:46 PM
Remember tanking the season doesn't guarantee a top draft pick, ask Boston last year. They tanked and still got screwed by the lottery balls.

:laugh:

I doubt any teams are actually going to intentionally tank anyway. Your point, however, does give the better lottery teams some hope they can land the prize picks.

Infinite MAN_force
01-27-2008, 10:53 PM
Last year all the teams picking 1-3 were 30-32 win teams and the three worst record teams in the league were all out of the top three. Given our recent play 32 wins is not out of reach.

Not to mention we can probably get Gordon with a number 3 or 4. I don't really care about winning the lottery, being a runner up would be fine.

If we get close, we should throw in granger and move up for Gordon anyway... This franchise needs to get butts in the stands more than anything else right now. Getting rid of Tinsley and adding Eric Gordon would do the trick.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-28-2008, 01:40 PM
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc7/Edgehead89/hansen.jpg
LMAO...Dateline...no i was wondering because most of the girls i see at pacer games are very young like 8 ish...A pacer jersey isn't exactly what's in style these days for most girls...
Although i did see a 70 yr old lady wearing one...haha

Shade
01-28-2008, 02:36 PM
lmao@NJ losing to the wolves...still in the 8th spot...lol this is awesome...I imagine tho the easy schedule NJ has coming up no way do we stay there. I suggest not watching the piston game it can only upset you so much.

The Nets really are trying to tank. They have waaaaay too much talent to be where they're at right now.

jmoney2584
01-28-2008, 03:31 PM
No I really think the Nets are just a big ball of "un-chemistry". Jason kid may be a great assist man but if he isn't happy being there then it doesnt help others desires. Same for half-man half a season, he is never in a game mentally unless he is on the verge of having a big night, otherwise he could care less

Indianapolis_girly
01-28-2008, 04:31 PM
How old are you? just wondering
16. :)

Kofi
01-28-2008, 10:02 PM
For those rooting for the Pacers to get as high a draft pick as possible (aka the smart Pacer fans), the big game on tonights schedule is Bobcats @ Clippers. It really doesn't really matter who wins. We're closer to passing up (down?) the Bobcats, so one one hand you could pull for them. However the Clippers have a bigger lead on us, so you could also pull for them. Either way, one of these two teams is picking up a W, which is a good thing for us.

Major Cold
01-28-2008, 10:14 PM
JOB will never actively TANK.

Kofi
01-28-2008, 10:50 PM
JOB will never actively TANK.

I doesn't matter really. We don't have the talent to win games. At our best, we're a 35 win team.

Naptown_Seth
01-28-2008, 10:52 PM
Maybe it's a good thing.....if Bird had the 10th pick...he may have picked Spencer Hawes :rolleyes:
That's not even funny, and I assume you weren't fully joking either.

I guess my feeling is that this "go for the very bottom, toss everything out the door and get good and s****y" is not the way to do things. Utah didn't have to do that and look at their run.

Portland did it but it was partially by accident and partially by horrible PR need. I don't think they expected the initial turn things took when they hired Nate, though it's obviously paying off now.

With the Miami "1 shot" case I'm saying that I do believe in making moves for LONG windows with less moonshot potential. Maybe you take off some edge on the title chances but you extend the solid playoff run window.

Some PD fans want the ring at all costs, they want solutions with extremely harsh consequences because they are sick of always "just making the playoffs". My view is you have to be in it to win it, and the craziness of the postseason means that you can't truly buy that certain shot anyway, so why risk such a harsh back end of failure for something so questionable.

People cite the Miami title as proof of that strategy, but I think it overlooks all the other times it doesn't really work. You can be horrible and get the top pick and come up short like Cleveland. You can be steady like Utah and get shut down by Jordan. You can package aging superstars and fail like Houston or LA.

Because of those risks I'd rather the team focus on something you can control somewhat, and that's just consistent winning.


Right now it's a mess so they aren't really doing either. Playoffs at sub-500 is not "winning", so it's not what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't just dump JO no matter what, I'd certainly consider an option that keeps JO and makes this team a +500 legit playoff team, even if it lacks that top-end "title shot" aspect. You only shut down JO if it means next year he will be much healthier. That's more important than gimping along this year. That's not a tank, that's just the best overall strategy due to a lack of options.

Get in the mix and you never know. That's better than tank to hell, really stink for awhile and still not know if it's going to work out.

Naptown_Seth
01-28-2008, 11:01 PM
Took a look at the league's recent standings:

http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html

Didn't realize how many teams are doing worse, if not much worse than the
Pacers are right now. There are a few teams that look like they would be
lucky to get as many wins by the end of the season as we have right now (19).

I can't see us losing to the point of having a realistic chance of getting a top
five draft pick. Possibly a pick before #10, but it's going to take some awefully
hard tanking and tossing the rest of the season out the window altogether
to make it happen.

It may be depressing to think about now, but it looks like we need to make
some sort of sacrifice to help forge a brighter future to look forward to.
Put this in with Buck's POV and consider just how truly miserable it must be to spend 5-6 months watching teams lose at a rate FAR below what the Pacers have been doing so far. Just consider where our expectations are now at, we're disgusted at being a little below mediocre.

Heck, people were livid about only being a little over .500 last year prior to the trade. The only taste of top 5 pick losing we've had in decades was the final couple of months last year.

And then carry that out not just over 1 season but perhaps 2 or 3. Sure you are getting top picks. Maybe you pull a Dallas and put Kidd, Mashburn and Jim Jackson together and win...jack squat. Personally I don't want to go back to the 80's level of losing for anything.

The celebration used to be that the team made the playoffs, maybe even won a playoff game (wow!). I see your tank and I raise you a Wayman Tisdale. ;)

CableKC
01-28-2008, 11:13 PM
That's not even funny, and I assume you weren't fully joking either.
No.....I wasn't joking. Check out who NBADraft.net compares him to:

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/spencerhawes.html

You think that Bird wouldn't pass up drafting a player like that? :D

OnlyPacersLeft
01-28-2008, 11:18 PM
I doesn't matter really. We don't have the talent to win games. At our best, we're a 35 win team.
that looks good enough to make the playoffs right now ;)

Kofi
01-28-2008, 11:58 PM
I guess my feeling is that this "go for the very bottom, toss everything out the door and get good and s****y" is not the way to do things. Utah didn't have to do that and look at their run.

Sorry Seth but your facts are off here. Utah won 26 games in 04-05 which lead to their acquiring Deron Williams in the draft (although they did trade up a few spots). That draft selection, coupled with the Boozer signing, is what turned their franchise around. There were no major trades made.


Portland did it but it was partially by accident and partially by horrible PR need. I don't think they expected the initial turn things took when they hired Nate, though it's obviously paying off now.

Accident? Not really. You don't accidentally trade your way into LaMarcus Aldridge and Brandon Roy. Their GM clearly knows what he's doing and recognizes talent. The only lucky part was winning the lottery this past offseason. And yet they're still a solid playoff team with that luck sitting on the bench in a suit for the entire season. Record-wise, they may end up as the best "really young" team in league history.



Some PD fans want the ring at all costs, they want solutions with extremely harsh consequences because they are sick of always "just making the playoffs". My view is you have to be in it to win it, and the craziness of the postseason means that you can't truly buy that certain shot anyway, so why risk such a harsh back end of failure for something so questionable.

Every move in the NBA is a gamble so I don't feel you have a valid point here. A bad trade (*cough* Golden State *cough*) will likely set your team back even further than a bad draft selection would. With a bad draft selection, you're not screwing with your cap. Make a bad trade, take on a mediocre player with a huge contract (*cough*Troy Murphy*cough*) and you're not only hurting yourself in the talent department but you're further crippling your chances of improving the team via trades and free agency.



People cite the Miami title as proof of that strategy, but I think it overlooks all the other times it doesn't really work. You can be horrible and get the top pick and come up short like Cleveland. You can be steady like Utah and get shut down by Jordan. You can package aging superstars and fail like Houston or LA.

Either way, rather you're building through the draft or through trades, it all comes down to the competence of management. If you have incompetent management, you're gonna fail either way. The Cavs were dealt a perfect hand, landing a guy who could go down as one of the 5 best ever, and they've already screwed it up by surrounding him with overpaid, mediocre talent. LeBron in Cleveland is on it's way to being K.G. in Minnesota part deux.

As for Utah, they're situation was very similar to ours through the mid 90's to early 2000. Very good, yet not quite good enough. We all want a championship, but I doubt very many people here would turn down 5 Eastern Conference Finals and 1 NBA Finals appearance in 10 years.



Because of those risks I'd rather the team focus on something you can control somewhat, and that's just consistent winning.

If they could control that, we wouldn't be in the position we're in now. It's been proven current management can't build a winning team through trades. The only hope is to rebuild through the draft. All succesful teams need a franchise player. We're not gonna find that player through a trade. It's not happening. It's either continue being an under-talented, 35-40 win team and hope to find our franchise player in the 8-15 range of the draft, our go all out, shed salary, bring in young (27 or younger) type talent, and land a couple of top-5 picks. Looking at the history of the draft, I'll gladly take my chances with the top-5 picks.


Right now it's a mess so they aren't really doing either. Playoffs at sub-500 is not "winning", so it's not what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't just dump JO no matter what, I'd certainly consider an option that keeps JO and makes this team a +500 legit playoff team, even if it lacks that top-end "title shot" aspect. You only shut down JO if it means next year he will be much healthier. That's more important than gimping along this year. That's not a tank, that's just the best overall strategy due to a lack of options.

I could live with that, provided we landed an actual impact player in the draft and J.O. could come back to 18/10 47% (at least) form.



Get in the mix and you never know. That's better than tank to hell, really stink for awhile and still not know if it's going to work out.

Again, if they could" get in the mix" they'd be "in the mix". They can't. Believe me, Bird wants to be in the mix, as does Jim O'Brien and every single player on the roster. It's easier said than done. Every single team in the league wants to be in the mix. Considering that no less than 25 of these teams have more to work with than us, it's a hopeless cause. Again, we could try to improve via trades, but that's as risky as the draft with a far lower payoff. Not to mention, we have nothing other teams want outside of a small handful of players. We have such a talent deficit, that our best bet would be to go after young unproven talent with high upside. Jordan Farmar, Javaris Crittenton, etc.

Kofi
01-29-2008, 12:00 AM
that looks good enough to make the playoffs right now ;)

That's at our best. With J.O. and Tinsley both banged up, we're far from at our best. As of right now, the difference between the playoffs and a top-5 pick is 3.5 games. So while 35-36 games may get you in the playoffs, 32 games could get you a top-5 pick, and a good shot at moving into the top-3.

Hicks
01-29-2008, 01:27 AM
What I want is to have the team (since they're bad anyway) lose as much as possible (though NOT intentionally) but don't have a firesale of our roster. In other words, while I'm not thrilled with this roster by a long shot, if the only trades out there will immediately LOWER our talent level even more (:shudder:), then just hold out, let the sucking land us some talent this June, and come back with this (or a similar) team + another talent.

I'm not interested in trading everyone away to be HORRIBLE in the talent department to get more picks, that's a lateral move even if it works out. No, I'd rather let a team under-achieve for a year, then come back next year with additional talent.

This is all if you assume we have no chance in the postseason, or if we don't even deserve to be there.

clownskull
01-29-2008, 01:56 AM
Last year all the teams picking 1-3 were 30-32 win teams and the three worst record teams in the league were all out of the top three. Given our recent play 32 wins is not out of reach.

Not to mention we can probably get Gordon with a number 3 or 4. I don't really care about winning the lottery, being a runner up would be fine.

If we get close, we should throw in granger and move up for Gordon anyway... This franchise needs to get butts in the stands more than anything else right now. Getting rid of Tinsley and adding Eric Gordon would do the trick.

problem is, 1) I'm not sold on gordon.
and 2) gordon doesn't solve our pg problem because hi isn't a pg
getting him wouldn't really help much with the logjam at the position he plays as a somewhat undersized 2 (which is where he would play in the nba)
there would likely be more useful players available if we got a pick good enough that he is still available.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-29-2008, 03:36 AM
there is no one in the upcoming draft like lebron or oden and durant who would change a franchise...lets try to win now. Granger could blossom into a t-mac type star. Let him carry this team not i repeat NOT DUNLEAVY...
run the offense through danny and lets see what happens..
I think if we play boston in the first round with a healthy JO we can beat them...the only team we can't beat in the east would be the pistons...and even i think we give them a run for their money!

Kofi
01-29-2008, 05:19 AM
there is no one in the upcoming draft like lebron or oden and durant who would change a franchise...lets try to win now. Granger could blossom into a t-mac type star. Let him carry this team not i repeat NOT DUNLEAVY...
run the offense through danny and lets see what happens..
I think if we play boston in the first round with a healthy JO we can beat them...the only team we can't beat in the east would be the pistons...and even i think we give them a run for their money!

I disagree with just about everything you said my friend.

I highyl doubt there's a LeBron in this draft, but there are players who could end up as good as Durant and be franchise players. Derrick Rose, Michael Beasley, DeAndre Jordan, O.J. Mayo, Eric Gordon and Donte Greene all look to have superstar potential.

And in no way is Granger even close to McGrady. McGrady is both more skilled and far more athletic. A healthy McGrady is a bonafide superstar. Granger's not even one of the top-20 players under the age of 25 in the league.

And I can't see how you would think we could beat Boston when we can't even beat Milwaukee, Chicago, or Miami. I understand being optimistic, but I think you're more along the lines of completely delusional. :D

Mourning
01-29-2008, 08:25 AM
I disagree with just about everything you said my friend.

I highyl doubt there's a LeBron in this draft, but there are players who could end up as good as Durant and be franchise players. Derrick Rose, Michael Beasley, DeAndre Jordan, O.J. Mayo, Eric Gordon and Donte Greene all look to have superstar potential.

And in no way is Granger even close to McGrady. McGrady is both more skilled and far more athletic. A healthy McGrady is a bonafide superstar. Granger's not even one of the top-20 players under the age of 25 in the league.

And I can't see how you would think we could beat Boston when we can't even beat Milwaukee, Chicago, or Miami. I understand being optimistic, but I think you're more along the lines of completely delusional. :D

:lol:... aggreed though :).

indygeezer
01-29-2008, 08:50 AM
:lol:... aggreed though :).


I agree with Kofi....

Have you noticed how dead quiet it is out of the Pacers? I'm convinced that means there is absolutely NOTHING going on...and so it shall remain.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-29-2008, 06:05 PM
eh...maybe i'm just a homer at heart. I still think this team has some talent or else we wouldn't win some of the games. If we learn how to execute and be more consistent on offense and defense we have a chance..

Infinite MAN_force
01-30-2008, 08:31 PM
problem is, 1) I'm not sold on gordon.
and 2) gordon doesn't solve our pg problem because hi isn't a pg
getting him wouldn't really help much with the logjam at the position he plays as a somewhat undersized 2 (which is where he would play in the nba)
there would likely be more useful players available if we got a pick good enough that he is still available.

Wade is a somewhat undersized 2 also...

I see your point about the PG situation, Ill modify it. I think we should trade granger for an up and coming point gaurd. We are fairly solid on wings, with dunleavy, williams, and rush (assuming he is resigned). Granger has the most trade value.

However if Gordon is available you have to pick him, the PR is just too much to pass up. If you pass on Gordon and he becomes a superstar somewhere else Indiana will never forgive Larry Bird. With his speed, strength, athleticism and awesome shooting range... I mean like I said, Dwayne Wade can do it at 6-4, I'm a believer.

Don't undervalue the need to put butts in the stands.

If not Gordon I think we need a big man though. Personally I like Thabeet.

Big Smooth
01-30-2008, 11:13 PM
Seems like this team is headed for another 35-47 type of season. :( Not quite a tank, not quite a playoff team. Bleh.

Dr. Goldfoot
01-30-2008, 11:53 PM
Sorry Seth but your facts are off here. Utah won 26 games in 04-05 which lead to their acquiring Deron Williams in the draft (although they did trade up a few spots). That draft selection, coupled with the Boozer signing, is what turned their franchise around. There were no major trades made.



Technically, their trading and free agent signings got them where they are today. They have two 1st round selections of their own currently on the roster (Morris Almond#25 & Ronnie Brewer#14) and one's played the least amount of minutes for them this season. They missed the playoffs in the '03-'04 season for the first time in 20 years. Prior to that season, Karl Malone walked to the Lakers, Stockton retired and they began their roster purge. A series of trades for picks and expiring contracts would free up even more money to throw at free agents. They refused to overpay for current players and let players like Maurice Williams, Raja Bell, Derek Fisher, Milt Palacio, Mikki Moore & Rafael Arauju ( among others) walk. They traded for players and when they didn't fit in got rid of them for players that would (Giricek for Korver) or players with expiring contracts/ready for retirement (Tom Gugliotta, Elden Campbell, Greg Ostertag, Alan Henderson, Glen Rice). They were out of the playoffs for three years and had one losing season.


Carlos Boozer----Thru free agency
Deron Williams----Trading got them into the position to draft him. They traded with the Rockets to get the rights to Pavel Podkolzine who they traded to the Mav's for their 2005 1st rounder(#27 Linas Keiza). They also traded Carlos Arroyo to get the Pistons 2006 1st rounder(#30 Joel Freeland). They added their own 2005 1st rounder(#6 Martell Webster)and sent all three picks to the Blazers for the 3rd pick in the 2005 draft (#3 Deron Williams).
Ronnie Brewer---with their own 1st round pick
Andrei Kirilenko---They traded Felton Spencer to the Magic for Brooks Thompson, Kenny Gattison & their 1999 1st rounder (#24 Andrei Kirilenko).
Mehmet Okur---Thru free agency
Paul Millsap---their own 2nd rounder
Matt Harpring---Thru free agency
C.J Miles---their own 2nd rounder
Jason Hart---free agency
Kyle Korver---Traded Gordan Giricek & a future 1st rounder to the 76ers
Jaron Collins---their own second round pick
Ronnie Price---free agency
Kyrylo Fesenko---traded Herbert Hill and future consideration to the 76ers
Morris Almond---Their own 2007 1st rounder #25

Kofi
01-31-2008, 08:12 AM
The Jazz live and die with Boozer and Williams. One acquired via free agency, the other via the draft. The rest of the team is nothing special, and are nickel and dime players easily attainable. We could have the same opportunities to rebuild our team with a few crafty moves (shed salary for one). If we keep riding it out, trying to find quick fixes, we're gonna continue to live in NBA purgatory.

Anyways, we're currently at #11, but just 1.5 games back of #7. The last time we had a pick as high as #7 (our own) was 1989 when we took George McCloud. Let's hope we can do a little better this time.

Hicks
01-31-2008, 10:14 AM
Anyways, we're currently at #11, but just 1.5 games back of #7. The last time we had a pick as high as #7 (our own) was 1989 when we took George McCloud. Let's hope we can do a little better this time.

What's terrifying is the East is so bad we're also 0.5 games back of #16. (because we'd be in the playoffs) A 2-game zone between the 7th pick in the draft and the 16th pick in the draft. Fun system, huh?

pwee31
01-31-2008, 11:11 AM
I agree with Kofi....

Have you noticed how dead quiet it is out of the Pacers? I'm convinced that means there is absolutely NOTHING going on...and so it shall remain.

I actually think it's a quiet before the storm type of situation. Guess we'll wait and see :confused:

Hicks
01-31-2008, 11:16 AM
Yeah, usually when we're in the news it's BS, and when we're not we're talking.

SycamoreKen
01-31-2008, 01:00 PM
The Jazz live and die with Boozer and Williams. One acquired via free agency, the other via the draft. The rest of the team is nothing special, and are nickel and dime players easily attainable. We could have the same opportunities to rebuild our team with a few crafty moves (shed salary for one). If we keep riding it out, trying to find quick fixes, we're gonna continue to live in NBA purgatory.

Anyways, we're currently at #11, but just 1.5 games back of #7. The last time we had a pick as high as #7 (our own) was 1989 when we took George McCloud. Let's hope we can do a little better this time.

I think you undervalue some of their supporting players. Okur, AK 47, and a couple others are more than nickle and dime players. That they are willing to buy into Sloan's system and work their butts off shows they are more than that.