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OakMoses
01-24-2008, 04:10 PM
I hope y'all enjoy your one year of Eric Gordon. I know us Boiler fans will enjoy 4 years of Robbie Hummel.

Last night: 15 pts, 11 rebs, 5 asts, 1 blk, 1 stl, 1 TO.

Season: 10.7 pts, 6 rebs, 2.8 asts, 48% FG, 44% 3 pt.

Elgin56
01-24-2008, 04:19 PM
I hope y'all enjoy your one year of Eric Gordon. I know us Boiler fans will enjoy 4 years of Robbie Hummel.

Last night: 15 pts, 11 rebs, 5 asts, 1 blk, 1 stl, 1 TO.

Season: 10.7 pts, 6 rebs, 2.8 asts, 48% FG, 44% 3 pt.
+


I have been a IU fan since the 1950's, and don't like the direction they took in hiring Sampson. I think there is a cloud over the program now, unlike any time in the past. I never cared for Purdue simply because I was a die hard IU fan, however I do think that Painter has that program headed for success and enjoy the way he has the present Purdue team playing. I enjoy players who commit to a team and play the four years of college ball, however times have changed and coaches really don't care whether a player stays for four years as long as they can bring quick results.

idioteque
01-24-2008, 04:27 PM
This is on the Pacers board and not the Sports/Entertainment board because....?

OakMoses
01-24-2008, 04:31 PM
+


I have been a IU fan since the 1950's, and don't like the direction they took in hiring Sampson. I think there is a cloud over the program now, unlike any time in the past. I never cared for Purdue simply because I was a die hard IU fan, however I do think that Painter has that program headed for success and enjoy the way he has the present Purdue team playing. I enjoy players who commit to a team and play the four years of college ball, however times have changed and coaches really don't care whether a player stays for four years as long as they can bring quick results.

There are a lot of things to like about Painter. I love that he gives kids a second chance and then boots them if they screw it up. Gordon Watt would have gotten 15-20 mpg on this team, but Painter didn't hesitate to release him when he got his second DUI. I also love that he's managed to convince every player who steps on the court that aggressive defense and ball movement are the keys to victory. I haven't been this excited about Purdue basketball since Glen Robinson. I really think that with this crop of freshman and sophomores, plus the kids coming in next year, Purdue will be a Big Ten title type of team and a top 10 team in the nation.

Trader Joe
01-24-2008, 04:35 PM
Two words. Devin Ebanks.

OakMoses
01-24-2008, 04:37 PM
Two words. Devin Ebanks.

Man, now I gotta go google somebody.

Indianapolis_girly
01-24-2008, 05:03 PM
Oh yes, Gordon is a great player.
Yeah, too bad he'll probably most likely go into the draft :(
I'm like the only IU fan in my household, the rest are Purdue people, but I've gotta give Purdue credit, they're playing really good basketball right now with such a young team. :thumbsup:

aceace
01-24-2008, 05:38 PM
Sampson can recruit, if he learns to stay off the phone a little things will be fine. The "too many calls" is really a minor thing.
Gordon will be replaced and the next Gordon will be replaced. As for Purdue.... How many NCAA BANNERS DO THEY HAVE HANGING?

Trader Joe
01-24-2008, 06:44 PM
Man, now I gotta go google somebody.

I'll save ya some time. Ebanks is IU's top recruit next year. He is a 6'8" SF who can shoot the lights out. He will likely be at IU for at least two years and should be able to fill Gordon's shoes very nicely.
Here is his scout page:
http://indiana.scout.com/a.z?s=170&p=8&c=1&nid=2087922

Trader Joe
01-24-2008, 06:45 PM
+


I have been a IU fan since the 1950's, and don't like the direction they took in hiring Sampson. I think there is a cloud over the program now, unlike any time in the past. I never cared for Purdue simply because I was a die hard IU fan, however I do think that Painter has that program headed for success and enjoy the way he has the present Purdue team playing. I enjoy players who commit to a team and play the four years of college ball, however times have changed and coaches really don't care whether a player stays for four years as long as they can bring quick results.

There is a cloud over IU basketball right now? Seems pretty freakin' sunny to me.

heywoode
01-24-2008, 09:37 PM
I hope y'all enjoy your one year of Eric Gordon. I know us Boiler fans will enjoy 4 years of Robbie Hummel.

Last night: 15 pts, 11 rebs, 5 asts, 1 blk, 1 stl, 1 TO.

Season: 10.7 pts, 6 rebs, 2.8 asts, 48% FG, 44% 3 pt.

Spoken like a true Boiler.

heywoode
01-24-2008, 09:43 PM
There are a lot of things to like about Painter. I love that he gives kids a second chance and then boots them if they screw it up. Gordon Watt would have gotten 15-20 mpg on this team, but Painter didn't hesitate to release him when he got his second DUI. I also love that he's managed to convince every player who steps on the court that aggressive defense and ball movement are the keys to victory. I haven't been this excited about Purdue basketball since Glen Robinson. I really think that with this crop of freshman and sophomores, plus the kids coming in next year, Purdue will be a Big Ten title type of team and a top 10 team in the nation.

Despite growing up a Purdue-hating Hoosier fan, I agree with everything you say here. I'm pretty excited for Purdue also. They have a great coach, and a good young core of motivated, committed basketball players. It is a pleasure to watch them play most nights.

I'm a little biased. Chris Kramer is from the town I live in, and I work in the same building as his father, so I get to see photos and hear stories....He is a very nice guy, and I have no doubt he will go far. Coach Painter is a disciplinarian, but doles it out the way it should be done. Nothing but respect for him and their current team. I hope they come in second in the Big Ten, and won't be broken hearted if they best my beloved Hoosiers, in a game, in a season, or in the tourney.

Shade
01-24-2008, 10:10 PM
I hope y'all enjoy your one year of Eric Gordon. I know us Boiler fans will enjoy 4 years of Robbie Hummel.

Last night: 15 pts, 11 rebs, 5 asts, 1 blk, 1 stl, 1 TO.

Season: 10.7 pts, 6 rebs, 2.8 asts, 48% FG, 44% 3 pt.

So, how many Final Fours should I put Purdue down for...?

ABADays
01-24-2008, 10:16 PM
I know I'm going to enjoy it!

Kofi
01-25-2008, 03:58 AM
I've never been anti-IU or anti-Purdue. I didn't attend either college, so I could care less. All I know is they're both Indiana schools, so I root for both of them regardless. IU looks awesome, and even without Gordon and White, they have some talent and will continue getting top-tier talent because of Kelvin Sampson and the schools prestige. Purdue themselves have a very nice freshman class, and Matt Painter looks like he's on his way to bring them back to a perennial top 25 team, which I think is great.

I'm just glad that, after close to a decade of mediocrity, both schools are back on track. Butler also looks pretty good.

Elgin56
01-25-2008, 10:38 AM
There is a cloud over IU basketball right now? Seems pretty freakin' sunny to me.



You have not been paying attention or don't care, either way you are wrong.

Trader Joe
01-25-2008, 11:34 AM
You have not been paying attention or don't care, either way you are wrong.

Well when you put it that way...:rolleyes:

Elgin56
01-25-2008, 11:49 AM
Well when you put it that way...:rolleyes:


Well maybe your wrong. ;)

travmil
01-25-2008, 11:50 AM
I hope y'all enjoy your one year of Eric Gordon. I know us Boiler fans will enjoy 4 years of Robbie Hummel.

Last night: 15 pts, 11 rebs, 5 asts, 1 blk, 1 stl, 1 TO.

Season: 10.7 pts, 6 rebs, 2.8 asts, 48% FG, 44% 3 pt.

One word....Wofford :burn:


Don't start thumping your drum just yet. Until your class of super Freshman can beat that team in your own building PUke fans have lost their right to brag.

Trader Joe
01-25-2008, 06:14 PM
Well maybe your wrong. ;)

I mean I assume the cloud you're referring to is Sampson and his various transgressions. While its not an ideal world to live in, it is the world we live in. Say what you want about Sampson and the way he handles his recruiting etc. but the man can coach the game of basketball, and thats what I thought we hired him for.
I can understand some people saying they don't like Sampson as a person, thats fine. A bunch of people didn't like Bob Knight (granted for different reasons), but I don't see how you can say the whole program has a cloud over it.

OakMoses
01-25-2008, 11:05 PM
One word....Wofford

Good point, but accentuating any point with a picture of Ashton Kutcher makes me question your judgement more than a little.

We'll see how good Purdue really is tommorrow against Wisconsin.

Heywoode - I've heard that Kramer has a little brother that's pretty good. Maybe he'll end up a Boiler too, eh? Kramer's pretty much my favorite player on the team. He's like a PG version of Brian Cardinal, and I say that with the utmost respect.

Oh, and by the way, over the last 20 years, Purdue and IU have the exact same amount of titles: 0.

I wish you guys all the best this year, though. White and Gordon are quite a combo. Sampson also started his coaching career in Montana, where I now live. He's got quite a following here.

tdubb03
01-26-2008, 08:41 PM
I can't wait for February 19th, Gordon v. Kramer is going to be fun to watch.

clownskull
01-27-2008, 02:21 AM
i completely agree with elgin56.
i worry sampson will get caught again (would be a 3rd time then). i don't consider his transgressions to be minor at all. his minor stuff was hundreds too many phone calls at his old school -hundreds. then in his very 1st year here- he gets caught for the same old s...
he cost the program a scholarship. i don't count that as minor.
that was punishment from the university. no word yet as far as i know from what the ncaa might decide to do as well.
i think this whole sampson thing reminds me of the days of ron artest being here and doing something stupid and hoping he would finally stop it and get it or more recently wondering if jo or jt can stay healthy. i just knew it was only a matter of time before something bad was gonna happen it was never very long before it did.
i don't believe it will be very long before sampson is in trouble again. probably 3-4 years.
he will probably try to pass the blame onto a scapegoat again and if he is getting the blue chipers and iu is ranked high in the national polls as a contender- there will certainly be apologists.

Elgin56
01-28-2008, 04:47 PM
i completely agree with elgin56.
i worry sampson will get caught again (would be a 3rd time then). i don't consider his transgressions to be minor at all. his minor stuff was hundreds too many phone calls at his old school -hundreds. then in his very 1st year here- he gets caught for the same old s...
he cost the program a scholarship. i don't count that as minor.
that was punishment from the university. no word yet as far as i know from what the ncaa might decide to do as well.
i think this whole sampson thing reminds me of the days of ron artest being here and doing something stupid and hoping he would finally stop it and get it or more recently wondering if jo or jt can stay healthy. i just knew it was only a matter of time before something bad was gonna happen it was never very long before it did.
i don't believe it will be very long before sampson is in trouble again. probably 3-4 years.
he will probably try to pass the blame onto a scapegoat again and if he is getting the blue chipers and iu is ranked high in the national polls as a contender- there will certainly be apologists.


Yep, however it seems as though you and I are in the minority on this, and most fans are just interested in the bottom line, winning at any cost. If IU did win it all this year or any year with Sampson as their coach, it would leave me with an empty feeling with no joy in their accomplishment.

Since86
01-28-2008, 05:47 PM
Yes because we all know that IU is the only school getting caught for recruiting violations.

The NCAA is built on retarded rules (yes I know rules are rules) but when they start looking into John Wooden because he bought Kevin Love a meal and is still on their payrole, you know they'll jump on anything.

Majerius was punished for buying some of his players fast food meals when they were on the road, and I guaruntee that he didn't lose any PR battles in the public eye.

Can't make any more telephone calls? Easy. Text them and tell them to call you. Problem solved.

This is the same organization that accepted Ball State's self-imposed punishment during the textbook "scandal" then three years later decided it wasn't good enough and refined them.

Every coach in every sport in every NCAA sactioned college breaks multiple NCAA rules every season. You're just plain niave if you think there's one person out there squeaky clean.

The number or hours for practice would easily be the number one thing. I know of programs that have had players kicked off the team for missing too many nonmadatory team functions.

But yeah, too many phone calls sure takes away the joy and leaves an empty feeling. :rolleyes:

And then we can get on the subject that NCAA bans any athlete, no matter the age, against consuming alcohol and even caffine. Having one can of Red Bull, or even coffee will give them a positive drug test.

heywoode
01-28-2008, 08:40 PM
Yes because we all know that IU is the only school getting caught for recruiting violations.

The NCAA is built on retarded rules (yes I know rules are rules) but when they start looking into John Wooden because he bought Kevin Love a meal and is still on their payrole, you know they'll jump on anything.

Majerius was punished for buying some of his players fast food meals when they were on the road, and I guaruntee that he didn't lose any PR battles in the public eye.

Can't make any more telephone calls? Easy. Text them and tell them to call you. Problem solved.

This is the same organization that accepted Ball State's self-imposed punishment during the textbook "scandal" then three years later decided it wasn't good enough and refined them.

Every coach in every sport in every NCAA sactioned college breaks multiple NCAA rules every season. You're just plain niave if you think there's one person out there squeaky clean.

The number or hours for practice would easily be the number one thing. I know of programs that have had players kicked off the team for missing too many nonmadatory team functions.

But yeah, too many phone calls sure takes away the joy and leaves an empty feeling. :rolleyes:

And then we can get on the subject that NCAA bans any athlete, no matter the age, against consuming alcohol and even caffine. Having one can of Red Bull, or even coffee will give them a positive drug test.

I agree with you, pal...

Myles Brand is right at home atop his throne of power. I swear he has a red phone that only rings when David Stern or satan calls........

I don't have a problem with Sampson, didn't have much problem with Davis except he quit winning, and I really didn't have much problem with Knight (yeah, I called him by his last name...) except that he was mostly an *******. I think IU basketball is just fine.

Good luck purists. I'm still waiting on Oral Roberts U. to make the Top 20...Oh wait, isn't their namesake's son, the president, in some hot water, or is that is allegedly adulterous wife?

Elgin56
01-28-2008, 09:48 PM
Yes because we all know that IU is the only school getting caught for recruiting violations.

The NCAA is built on retarded rules (yes I know rules are rules) but when they start looking into John Wooden because he bought Kevin Love a meal and is still on their payrole, you know they'll jump on anything.

Majerius was punished for buying some of his players fast food meals when they were on the road, and I guaruntee that he didn't lose any PR battles in the public eye.

Can't make any more telephone calls? Easy. Text them and tell them to call you. Problem solved.

This is the same organization that accepted Ball State's self-imposed punishment during the textbook "scandal" then three years later decided it wasn't good enough and refined them.

Every coach in every sport in every NCAA sactioned college breaks multiple NCAA rules every season. You're just plain niave if you think there's one person out there squeaky clean.

The number or hours for practice would easily be the number one thing. I know of programs that have had players kicked off the team for missing too many nonmadatory team functions.

But yeah, too many phone calls sure takes away the joy and leaves an empty feeling. :rolleyes:

And then we can get on the subject that NCAA bans any athlete, no matter the age, against consuming alcohol and even caffine. Having one can of Red Bull, or even coffee will give them a positive drug test.


Rationalize all that you want to, I ain't buying that BS on that every coach is cheating, yes I said CHEATING. Gee, I think that I will tell my grandkids that they can cheat on their tests because I think every other kid is also cheating. Come on give me a break. If that many other coaches were doing what Sampson did, they would be caught and punished as he was.

Retarded rules or not, they are the freaking rules for all of the coaches. We as individuals just can't pick and choose which rules we will abide by or which ones we will violate, and neither can coaches.

heywoode
01-29-2008, 12:08 AM
yawn

Since86
01-31-2008, 06:07 PM
yawn

Exactly.

I wonder Elgin. Do you drive 56 when the speed LIMIT is posted at 55? If you do, then you are guilty of breaking a law. What kind of example are you setting to your grandkids by breaking the law and putting everyone else in danger?

Shade
01-31-2008, 08:13 PM
Yep, however it seems as though you and I are in the minority on this, and most fans are just interested in the bottom line, winning at any cost. If IU did win it all this year or any year with Sampson as their coach, it would leave me with an empty feeling with no joy in their accomplishment.

Did it also give you an empty feeling when a guy like Knight won championships at IU?

I'll take a cheater over a selfish, disrespectful ******* anyday. An I abhor cheating.

Let's be realistic here. Sampson isn't paying off players or committing academic fraud. There are different degrees of rules violations. That's why people aren't sentenced to death for jaywalking, which is essentially what you're pushing for here.

(Btw, if Sampson cheats AGAIN, no matter how minor, I want him gone. Period.)

Elgin56
02-01-2008, 02:18 PM
Did it also give you an empty feeling when a guy like Knight won championships at IU?

I'll take a cheater over a selfish, disrespectful ******* anyday. An I abhor cheating.

Let's be realistic here. Sampson isn't paying off players or committing academic fraud. There are different degrees of rules violations. That's why people aren't sentenced to death for jaywalking, which is essentially what you're pushing for here.

(Btw, if Sampson cheats AGAIN, no matter how minor, I want him gone. Period.)


Did it also give you an empty feeling when a guy like Knight won championships at IU?

No.

I'll take a cheater over a selfish, disrespectful ******* anyday. An I abhor cheating.

Did you play for Knight? Try asking some of his former players(the ones who stuck it out), what they think of him.

There are different degrees of rules violations

Yes, and he has been caught TWICE, violating the same rule. Says a lot for his respect for rules, right?


if Sampson cheats AGAIN, no matter how minor, I want him gone. Period.)[/quote]


Sorry breaking the same rule twice is enough for me.

Let's be realistic here. Sampson isn't paying off players or committing academic fraud.

Check his graduation rates when he was at Oklahoma, talk about academic fraud.

Elgin56
02-01-2008, 02:21 PM
Exactly.

I wonder Elgin. Do you drive 56 when the speed LIMIT is posted at 55? If you do, then you are guilty of breaking a law. What kind of example are you setting to your grandkids by breaking the law and putting everyone else in danger?


Poor example, doesn't deserve a rebuttal.

Since86
02-01-2008, 03:06 PM
Poor example, doesn't deserve a rebuttal.

Oh, so you pick and choose which rules are good enough to follow?

If you go over the speed limit by 1 mph, your breaking the law. 1-15 mph over the posted limit is considered a class D moving infraction.

How is it a poor example? It's a rule and rules aren't supposed to be broken, no matter how small or how retarded, remember?

If you don't remember I'll remind you:

Retarded rules or not, they are the freaking rules for all of the coaches. We as individuals just can't pick and choose which rules we will abide by or which ones we will violate, and neither can coaches.

Again, what kind of example are you setting by speeding? You don't offer a rebuttal, because you don't have one.

Sollozzo
02-01-2008, 03:10 PM
Yes because we all know that IU is the only school getting caught for recruiting violations.

The NCAA is built on retarded rules (yes I know rules are rules) but when they start looking into John Wooden because he bought Kevin Love a meal and is still on their payrole, you know they'll jump on anything.

Majerius was punished for buying some of his players fast food meals when they were on the road, and I guaruntee that he didn't lose any PR battles in the public eye.

Can't make any more telephone calls? Easy. Text them and tell them to call you. Problem solved.

This is the same organization that accepted Ball State's self-imposed punishment during the textbook "scandal" then three years later decided it wasn't good enough and refined them.

Every coach in every sport in every NCAA sactioned college breaks multiple NCAA rules every season. You're just plain niave if you think there's one person out there squeaky clean.

The number or hours for practice would easily be the number one thing. I know of programs that have had players kicked off the team for missing too many nonmadatory team functions.

But yeah, too many phone calls sure takes away the joy and leaves an empty feeling. :rolleyes:

And then we can get on the subject that NCAA bans any athlete, no matter the age, against consuming alcohol and even caffine. Having one can of Red Bull, or even coffee will give them a positive drug test.


It's not about the rule itself, it's the fact that he was caught twice breaking the rule. That just shows a blatant disrespect for rules and paints him out to have an attitude that he is above them.

And I am a soph at IU that has tickets and loves the team. I respect the life that Sampson has brought back into the program and think that he is a very good coach. The incident doesn't bother me that much at all, but I certainly understand why some are disgusted.

Elgin56
02-01-2008, 04:24 PM
Oh, so you pick and choose which rules are good enough to follow?

If you go over the speed limit by 1 mph, your breaking the law. 1-15 mph over the posted limit is considered a class D moving infraction.

How is it a poor example? It's a rule and rules aren't supposed to be broken, no matter how small or how retarded, remember?

If you don't remember I'll remind you:


Again, what kind of example are you setting by speeding? You don't offer a rebuttal, because you don't have one.


You know and I know that going one mph over the posted speed limit is a bogus arguement and I will leave it at that. My new kinder gentler self prevents me from really saying what I think of your line of reasoning.

heywoode
02-02-2008, 08:51 PM
Hey, don't spare any wrath. I, for one, would rather you state what you feel.

I agree with Since86. One could argue that limiting the number of phone calls a guy can make to a recruit is as retarded as getting a ticket for 56 in a 55mph zone. If you don't think it's a valid comparison, all that does is prove 86's point. You don't have the respect for the speed limit you ought to have. Take it one step further and ask if you've gotten two speeding tickets, or two parking tickets, or made two of the same mistake before....It never stops when you start sentences with the word "Technically". Either it is or it isn't.

As long as kids aren't being paid (hell, they probably ARE. It is probably unrealistic to think that anyone is playing by the rules anymore.) and getting grades handed to them, I'm not that worried about it. Really, we could have the argument that maybe the athletes SHOULD be paid given the vast sums of money they bring to their schools by performing at a high level...Why should the schools lap up the gravy when the athletes are the ones who put asses in the seats to watch them perform and bring the in the tournament revenue.

Sampson doesn't have as much class as I would like, but he's not totally classless either. IU could do a lot worse.

I'm happy that the team seems to have decent players and decent kids, and that they are playing pretty much up to potential and not getting in trouble. I'm not gonna go look for stuff to be upset about or try to find things to hang a cloud over. This isn't "just win, baby" with Artest and Jackson and PacMan....

Heck, I'm so hunky-dorey right now, I've even been rooting for the Boilers!

:eek:

Elgin56
02-02-2008, 10:57 PM
Hey, don't spare any wrath. I, for one, would rather you state what you feel.

I agree with Since86. One could argue that limiting the number of phone calls a guy can make to a recruit is as retarded as getting a ticket for 56 in a 55mph zone. If you don't think it's a valid comparison, all that does is prove 86's point. You don't have the respect for the speed limit you ought to have. Take it one step further and ask if you've gotten two speeding tickets, or two parking tickets, or made two of the same mistake before....It never stops when you start sentences with the word "Technically". Either it is or it isn't.

As long as kids aren't being paid (hell, they probably ARE. It is probably unrealistic to think that anyone is playing by the rules anymore.) and getting grades handed to them, I'm not that worried about it. Really, we could have the argument that maybe the athletes SHOULD be paid given the vast sums of money they bring to their schools by performing at a high level...Why should the schools lap up the gravy when the athletes are the ones who put asses in the seats to watch them perform and bring the in the tournament revenue.

Sampson doesn't have as much class as I would like, but he's not totally classless either. IU could do a lot worse.

I'm happy that the team seems to have decent players and decent kids, and that they are playing pretty much up to potential and not getting in trouble. I'm not gonna go look for stuff to be upset about or try to find things to hang a cloud over. This isn't "just win, baby" with Artest and Jackson and PacMan....

Heck, I'm so hunky-dorey right now, I've even been rooting for the Boilers!

:eek:


I suppose time will tell whether your line of reasoning is correct. I believe that Sampson will in the long run bring the program through the mud. Past history is a damn good predictor of the future.

heywoode
02-02-2008, 11:19 PM
Well, given what IU put up with from Bob Knight over 29 years, I'm inclined to believe Sampson has quite a bit of latitude.

I hope it doesn't happen and that the program can regain the prominence it had under Knight, but without the wondering when the next head gasket is going to blow.

Elgin56
02-03-2008, 11:38 AM
Well, given what IU put up with from Bob Knight over 29 years, I'm inclined to believe Sampson has quite a bit of latitude.

I hope it doesn't happen and that the program can regain the prominence it had under Knight, but without the wondering when the next head gasket is going to blow.


I don't pretend that Knight had his share of problems, however the media coverage that was negative was almost entirely aimed at him and not at the University. Now with Sampson, I think that his transgressions directly reflect badly on IU, as they knew from the get go, that he had a bad reputation and now they are allowing him to remain as coach after he breaks the same damn rule again. I believe that there is a huge difference in one coache's boorish behavior towards mainly the media and a coach that is a serial cheat. Of course that is just one old man's opinion.

heywoode
02-03-2008, 01:11 PM
I don't pretend that Knight had his share of problems, however the media coverage that was negative was almost entirely aimed at him and not at the University. Now with Sampson, I think that his transgressions directly reflect badly on IU, as they knew from the get go, that he had a bad reputation and now they are allowing him to remain as coach after he breaks the same damn rule again. I believe that there is a huge difference in one coache's boorish behavior towards mainly the media and a coach that is a serial cheat. Of course that is just one old man's opinion.

Well, I think Knight's behavior was just as much directed at his players, staff, and athletic department as it was at the media. The only people he treated with respect were his family or the people who spent their time trailing his heels with their tails between their legs.

It reflected badly on the university for his entire tenure that the university allowed the behavior. The entire reason that he was fired was because IU was backed into a corner and had to institute a 'zero tolerance policy' after they got called out for condoning his behavior. As soon as the "ZTP" was put in place, the clock was ticking, and everyone who breathes air knew it.

Some of Knight's behavior was just as bad or worse than cheating, so I'm inclined to give Sampson a few benefits of the doubt. Knight sure got a free pass for a couple-three decades.

Elgin56
02-03-2008, 03:36 PM
Well, I think Knight's behavior was just as much directed at his players, staff, and athletic department as it was at the media. The only people he treated with respect were his family or the people who spent their time trailing his heels with their tails between their legs.

It reflected badly on the university for his entire tenure that the university allowed the behavior. The entire reason that he was fired was because IU was backed into a corner and had to institute a 'zero tolerance policy' after they got called out for condoning his behavior. As soon as the "ZTP" was put in place, the clock was ticking, and everyone who breathes air knew it.

Some of Knight's behavior was just as bad or worse than cheating, so I'm inclined to give Sampson a few benefits of the doubt. Knight sure got a free pass for a couple-three decades.


Soooo, should IU give back the million dollars he raised for the library?

IU is being hypocritical by firing Knight with a "ZTP" and not following up on what Sampson did.

As I told another poster, try asking former players (the ones who stuck it out), about Knight.

Sampson has had two free passes and yet you still defend him. It is my understanding that Sampson was under a "ZTP" when he was hired. The only reason he wasn't fired was because of fat boy(AD). If he had fired Sampson, he would have been fired himself for hireing him in the first place.

Some of Knight's behavior was just as bad or worse than cheating, so I'm inclined to give Sampson a few benefits of the doubt.

You are kidding, right? Cheating goes to the integrity of the game, while being a pr#ck only hurts some one's feelings.

heywoode
02-03-2008, 05:12 PM
Soooo, should IU give back the million dollars he raised for the library?

IU is being hypocritical by firing Knight with a "ZTP" and not following up on what Sampson did.

As I told another poster, try asking former players (the ones who stuck it out), about Knight.

Sampson has had two free passes and yet you still defend him. It is my understanding that Sampson was under a "ZTP" when he was hired. The only reason he wasn't fired was because of fat boy(AD). If he had fired Sampson, he would have been fired himself for hireing him in the first place.

Some of Knight's behavior was just as bad or worse than cheating, so I'm inclined to give Sampson a few benefits of the doubt.

You are kidding, right? Cheating goes to the integrity of the game, while being a pr#ck only hurts some one's feelings.

I refuse to use the fact that someone raised money as an excuse for their behavior. I'm quite sure the library would've gotten contributions from somewhere. It's not like the wrecking ball was sitting outside and Knight swooped in and saved the day...

Knight only got a ZTP after 27 or more years of abusing his authority and doing stuff to embarrass himself and the university. Sampson might have a little ways to go to catch up with that track record.

The cheating referred to in my post is the 'making too many phone calls' variety cheating, not point shaving. I refuse to believe that most everybody in college athletics is a boy scout and Kelvin Sampson is the devil for making too many phone calls. All kinds of little violations happen every single day and really are more like a bunch of attorneys in a room with no windows arguing technicalities all day long.

I get it. You don't like Sampson. You aren't going to be satisfied until IU fires him, has him drawn and quartered in front of Assembly Hall, and then have them hire Ned Flanders to lead them into the Promised Land.

Knight was, and still is, one of the biggest pricks in all of sports. I don't care that he would give a friend of his the shirt off his back, or he raised money for the library, or whatever. NOTHING is a proper excuse for acting the way he does MOST OF THE TIME.

I have worked for someone like him, someone who is completely unpredictable and could snap at any moment for even the most trivial thing. It isn't fun. In fact, it is the worst possible scenario. I don't care who the player or staff member is, past or present, I'm certain at many different times they have wanted to hit him in the back of the head with a shovel and fill in the hole he falls into. People like him have no excuse for making life miserable for most everyone else around them.

I'm fine with Sampson as long as he doesn't get caught doing things that actually do degrade the integrity of the game.

You don't have to be on board with my position on it, and I don't have to be on board with yours. I'm sorry, but I haven't read a good enough reason yet to make me reconsider my position.

Elgin56
02-03-2008, 05:31 PM
I refuse to use the fact that someone raised money as an excuse for their behavior. I'm quite sure the library would've gotten contributions from somewhere. It's not like the wrecking ball was sitting outside and Knight swooped in and saved the day...

Knight only got a ZTP after 27 or more years of abusing his authority and doing stuff to embarrass himself and the university. Sampson might have a little ways to go to catch up with that track record.

The cheating referred to in my post is the 'making too many phone calls' variety cheating, not point shaving. I refuse to believe that most everybody in college athletics is a boy scout and Kelvin Sampson is the devil for making too many phone calls. All kinds of little violations happen every single day and really are more like a bunch of attorneys in a room with no windows arguing technicalities all day long.

I get it. You don't like Sampson. You aren't going to be satisfied until IU fires him, has him drawn and quartered in front of Assembly Hall, and then have them hire Ned Flanders to lead them into the Promised Land.

Knight was, and still is, one of the biggest pricks in all of sports. I don't care that he would give a friend of his the shirt off his back, or he raised money for the library, or whatever. NOTHING is a proper excuse for acting the way he does MOST OF THE TIME.

I have worked for someone like him, someone who is completely unpredictable and could snap at any moment for even the most trivial thing. It isn't fun. In fact, it is the worst possible scenario. I don't care who the player or staff member is, past or present, I'm certain at many different times they have wanted to hit him in the back of the head with a shovel and fill in the hole he falls into. People like him have no excuse for making life miserable for most everyone else around them.

I'm fine with Sampson as long as he doesn't get caught doing things that actually do degrade the integrity of the game.

You don't have to be on board with my position on it, and I don't have to be on board with yours. I'm sorry, but I haven't read a good enough reason yet to make me reconsider my position.


Ever been in the military?

heywoode
02-03-2008, 05:47 PM
Ever been in the military?

Ever been in a Turkish prison?

grace
02-04-2008, 12:56 AM
I agree that Knight can be a world class prick at times but the fact remains he coached the teams that won the titles unlike what Sampson has been able to do.

Bball
02-04-2008, 01:46 AM
Here's my take on the rules Sampson allegedly broke:

It's a lot like the "no chewing gum in class" rule... Break it and you're breaking a rule... but what does it matter?

Let me know when Sampson is paying recruits, and I'll care. If he's talking to them on the phone too many times, then they can hang up if they don't want to talk to him and the NCAA can go find some real problems in college athletics.

Is there even a point to this rule any longer?

-Bball

Elgin56
02-04-2008, 01:51 PM
Here's my take on the rules Sampson allegedly broke:

It's a lot like the "no chewing gum in class" rule... Break it and you're breaking a rule... but what does it matter?

Let me know when Sampson is paying recruits, and I'll care. If he's talking to them on the phone too many times, then they can hang up if they don't want to talk to him and the NCAA can go find some real problems in college athletics.

Is there even a point to this rule any longer?

-Bball


Sorry, I just don't understand your logic that breaking a rule because you think it is stupid, is ok.

then they can hang up if they don't want to talk to him and the NCAA can go find some real problems in college athletics.

I find this statement where you are trying to shift the blame to the recruit, ludicrous.

Since86
02-04-2008, 03:06 PM
I have a strong feeling you don't understand much.

Kraft
02-04-2008, 03:15 PM
I grew up an IU basketball fan. Even four-and-a-half years as a Purdue student didn't deter this.

Naturally, I never had much love for Gene Keady. But after having some interaction with him at school, I certainly grew to respect him more. And after Matt Painter arrived, I liked and respected him, too -- along with members of his coaching staff.

Still, my love for the IU basketball team was there. And then came Kelvin Sampson. To be honest, I don't even know when I changed. One day, I was watching an IU game and not getting real into it. Then, watching the Boilers play Wisconsin, I was screaming at the television -- and the score was 6-4.

I had changed. And, yes, it was for the better.

Why did this happen? Was it a few stray phone calls? I don't think so. The violations were just the conduit. It was Sampson's pure arrogance. Bob Knight was a little of his rocker, but it wasn't true arrogance. Mike Davis couldn't coach, he was a likeable guy.

Kelvin Sampson ... it's like he's Bill Belichick on the basketball court. I don't think I can support that guy. And I tried, believe me.

Elgin56
02-04-2008, 05:16 PM
I grew up an IU basketball fan. Even four-and-a-half years as a Purdue student didn't deter this.

Naturally, I never had much love for Gene Keady. But after having some interaction with him at school, I certainly grew to respect him more. And after Matt Painter arrived, I liked and respected him, too -- along with members of his coaching staff.

Still, my love for the IU basketball team was there. And then came Kelvin Sampson. To be honest, I don't even know when I changed. One day, I was watching an IU game and not getting real into it. Then, watching the Boilers play Wisconsin, I was screaming at the television -- and the score was 6-4.

I had changed. And, yes, it was for the better.

Why did this happen? Was it a few stray phone calls? I don't think so. The violations were just the conduit. It was Sampson's pure arrogance. Bob Knight was a little of his rocker, but it wasn't true arrogance. Mike Davis couldn't coach, he was a likeable guy.

Kelvin Sampson ... it's like he's Bill Belichick on the basketball court. I don't think I can support that guy. And I tried, believe me.

Me feelings, exactly. I grew up in a different time period than most posters here on this board and I don't share their lack of respect for the rules. Not in my wildest dreams could I see myself rooting for Purdue, until now. I enjoy the way
they play a team style of ball. I have not been to an IU game since Sampson was hired and won't as long as he is coach. You know what? I have found that there are other teams out there, that are worthy of my support, Butler for one.

Elgin56
02-04-2008, 05:25 PM
I have a strong feeling you don't understand much.


I assume this is directed at me, correct? I could respond in kind, however due to your obvious immaturity, I won't.

Since86
02-04-2008, 06:35 PM
Well sorry but I don't feel slighted.

You don't understand because you don't agree with what your answer will be. You have been put on record that no matter how stupid or retarded a rule is, it must be followed because it is a rule.

When asked if you follow simple rules, like speeding limits, you fail to understand the logic of the argument.

Simply put: You're choosing which rules people should follow and judge them on it, while choosing which rules you choose to follow and plead the 5th when called on it.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

For the record, I could careless if you go 56 mph in a 55 zone, or even go 65. You set yourself up with your mightier than thou speech about how all rules no matter what should be followed. Being mature also means admitting you were wrong, so excuse me if I don't loose any sleep at being called immature.

Kraft
02-04-2008, 06:51 PM
When I got a speeding ticket once, I didn't drive the rest of the way home at 10 mph over the limit. Apparently, Kelvin would.

heywoode
02-04-2008, 07:12 PM
When I got a speeding ticket once, I didn't drive the rest of the way home at 10 mph over the limit. Apparently, Kelvin would.

Have you gone over the speed limit since? Maybe that once getting caught was enough to put you on the straight and narrow for the rest of your life. I commend you.

As far as it goes, I don't really care one way or the other about this subject we keep arguing about. It's just funny to keep it going, because since86 is right. Choosing which rules to be a hardass about and being unbending about it is pretty comical sometimes.

Kraft
02-04-2008, 07:30 PM
Have you gone over the speed limit since? Maybe that once getting caught was enough to put you on the straight and narrow for the rest of your life. I commend you.

I could care less about speeding, phone calls, jaywalking, tax evasion or anything in between.

Like I've said already ...


The violations were just the conduit. It was Sampson's pure arrogance.

To me, it's about the person, what the conduct means, how it represents the program and the message you want to send out to your fans, potential recruits and your peers.

When Sampson's violations were first reported, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I supported the program. He said he could change. Obviously, he didn't.

He fooled me once. Not again.

I don't have any major disdain for Sampson and IU. There's programs like that one, and many worse, all over the country. I just decided there's a better option for my support. It just so happens to be my alma mater, too.

heywoode
02-04-2008, 08:40 PM
I could care less about speeding, phone calls, jaywalking, tax evasion or anything in between.

Like I've said already ...



To me, it's about the person, what the conduct means, how it represents the program and the message you want to send out to your fans, potential recruits and your peers.

When Sampson's violations were first reported, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I supported the program. He said he could change. Obviously, he didn't.

He fooled me once. Not again.

I don't have any major disdain for Sampson and IU. There's programs like that one, and many worse, all over the country. I just decided there's a better option for my support. It just so happens to be my alma mater, too.

Well, if you could care less about the rules violations you mention, does that mean that blatant disregard for rules is a conduit for YOUR arrogance? The problem I have is that people seem to be judging him because he callously broke a rule that seems obviously a technicality and not that big of a deal. If you don't see speeding as that big of a violation (and really, the police don't either...you can get multiple tickets and simply pay a fine and keep driving. You really have to make it a habit before the next stage, and that is only defensive driving courses to regain some points and you are again back driving...) and are willing to do it, how is that any different than Sampson thinking the phone calls rule is bogus and choosing to violate it a couple of times?

I'm not trying to convince you to come back to the IU side; far from it. I just can't see the logic in the argument that he is condemned as an arrogant, chronic rulebreaker who reflects badly on the program because of the relatively minor stuff he has been caught doing.

Since86
02-04-2008, 08:49 PM
Which is exactly my point. Every single sport program at every single NCAA sanctioned university breaks rules every year, and I would be willing to bet that they break them weekly.

They over do practice/meeting times, by giving them "non-mandatory" statuses, or they say that if the practice facility isn't near campus that transportation will be provided but you don't have to ride their bus. Yeah right!

I will say I know one university that did the exact thing with the transportation when practicing for a recent bowl game when they didn't have an indoor facility and needed to practice at a professional stadium.

I imagine most violations have to do with the above mentioned rules or with regards to attendance to classes.

To say a program disgusts you because of multiple violations over something so minute shows you're looking for a reason to dislike them, which is fine but just label it as such. You're 100% completely niave to think that a program doesn't violate NCAA rules, because I know little things happen everyday against the rules at my college.

I mean if you really really wanna get picky then you need to start being disgusted at every NCAA athlete that drinks a RedBull energy drink, or consumes alcohol, because both are on the NCAA ban substance list and carries the same punishment from the NCAA as would a failed drug test, which is an automatic 30day suspension no questions asked.

Are you going to stop watching your favorite team because you see a player drink an energy drink? Get real. But at the same time, they're in violation of the NCAA banned substance clause.

Stryder
02-04-2008, 08:55 PM
Which is exactly my point. Every single sport program at every single NCAA sanctioned university breaks rules every year, and I would be willing to bet that they break them weekly.

They over do practice/meeting times, by giving them "non-mandatory" statuses, or they say that if the practice facility isn't near campus that transportation will be provided but you don't have to ride their bus. Yeah right!

I will say I know one university that did the exact thing with the transportation when practicing for a recent bowl game when they didn't have an indoor facility and needed to practice at a professional stadium.

I imagine most violations have to do with the above mentioned rules or with regards to attendance to classes.

To say a program disgusts you because of multiple violations over something so minute shows you're looking for a reason to dislike them, which is fine but just label it as such. You're 100% completely niave to think that a program doesn't violate NCAA rules, because I know little things happen everyday against the rules at my college.

I mean if you really really wanna get picky then you need to start being disgusted at every NCAA athlete that drinks a RedBull energy drink, or consumes alcohol, because both are on the NCAA ban substance list and carries the same punishment from the NCAA as would a failed drug test, which is an automatic 30day suspension no questions asked.

Are you going to stop watching your favorite team because you see a player drink an energy drink? Get real. But at the same time, they're in violation of the NCAA banned substance clause.


EDIT: I was wrong. Sorry.

Kraft
02-04-2008, 09:04 PM
... how is that any different than Sampson thinking the phone calls rule is bogus and choosing to violate it a couple of times?

Well, here's probably where the two sides are different.

I don't think that Sampson considers the rule bogus. I'm sure he knows why it's a rule -- and maybe even agrees with it. And I'm sure if he was on the other side of the fence, he'd be just a pissed.

Sampson violated the rule, on more than one occasion, because it gave him a competitive advantage. He's not stupid; he knew exactly what he was doing. He thought he could beat everyone else by breaking a rule.

It's certainly not the worst transgression. But as a former IU fan, I had no idea where Sampson would stop.

Is there such thing as a gateway NCAA violation?

Kraft
02-04-2008, 09:09 PM
Every single sport program at every single NCAA sanctioned university breaks rules every year, and I would be willing to bet that they break them weekly.

For the most part, this is true.

You should see some of the self-reporting forms I've gone through. Player X left her car at Coach X's house over the summer. Since storage can cost money, that's a violation. There's a lot of it that's silly.

I just don't consider Sampson's offenses silly. There's just too much volume there.

I think there's a line that can be drawn -- if you don't, that's fine, it's your opinion -- and that Sampson came down on the wrong side of it. And he did it knowingly.

Elgin56
02-04-2008, 09:45 PM
[quote=Since86;651700]Well sorry but I don't feel slighted.

You don't understand because you don't agree with what your answer will be. You have been put on record that no matter how stupid or retarded a rule is, it must be followed because it is a rule.

When asked if you follow simple rules, like speeding limits, you fail to understand the logic of the argument.

Simply put: You're choosing which rules people should follow and judge them on it, while choosing which rules you choose to follow and plead the 5th when called on it.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Back up Jr., if you are going to throw out names be prepared to back them up with facts. First of all, where did I state that it is ok to speed, even with your ignorant example of going 1 MPH over the limit? Save yourself some time, I didn't. I have been driving for 50 plus years without any tickets, so if that is being a f&**&ng hypocrite than I guess I am.

If all the other coaches are violating the rule that Sampson broke twice, why haven't they been caught? Do you really believe that the NCAA is turning their head on these coaches and just picking on Sampson?

And yes, calling someone a hyocrite without facts, illustrates your lack of objectivity and a lack of a moral compass.

heywoode
02-04-2008, 11:18 PM
I think they figured out about Sampson's phone calls as he was leaving his last job. After that, sure they were watching for it....

Just because you haven't been ticketed doesn't mean you haven't been blatantly breaking the rules for 50 plus years. I'm not saying you have, but lack of getting caught proves nothing. Kinda like all the other coaches who find ways around the stupid rules to give themselves a competitive advantage......

I'm not calling you a hypocrite (I know your post wasn't directed at me since you quoted S86), but I still believe that if you are choosing what rules to follow and what ones to break, and then calling someone else out for doing the same thing.....it doesn't really seem like a good thing to do.

In other news, maybe we can make all this a moot point!

Myles Brand is gone, and Bob Knight seems to be available......IU could drop the rule breaking scofflaw and bring back the savior/biggest pr!ck on the planet....

Infinite MAN_force
02-05-2008, 02:24 AM
Sorry, I just don't understand your logic that breaking a rule because you think it is stupid, is ok.




http://agonist.org/files/active/1/Ghandi.jpg

Ghandi disagrees...

Kraft
02-05-2008, 02:28 AM
Ghandi disagrees...

:laugh:

For some reason, I'm not sure this is what he had in mind.

Elgin56
02-05-2008, 01:15 PM
I think they figured out about Sampson's phone calls as he was leaving his last job. After that, sure they were watching for it....

Just because you haven't been ticketed doesn't mean you haven't been blatantly breaking the rules for 50 plus years. I'm not saying you have, but lack of getting caught proves nothing. Kinda like all the other coaches who find ways around the stupid rules to give themselves a competitive advantage......

I'm not calling you a hypocrite (I know your post wasn't directed at me since you quoted S86), but I still believe that if you are choosing what rules to follow and what ones to break, and then calling someone else out for doing the same thing.....it doesn't really seem like a good thing to do.

In other news, maybe we can make all this a moot point!



Myles Brand is gone, and Bob Knight seems to be available......IU could drop the rule breaking scofflaw and bring back the savior/biggest pr!ck on the planet....


Again, where did I state the I choose which rules to follow and which ones to break? I think that another poster insinuated that is what I do. I advocate following all laws and rules, regardless if I believe that they are stupid laws or rules.

doesn't mean you haven't been blatantly breaking the rules for 50 plus years.

Oh come on! That makes no sense at all. The law of averages would see to it that if one was blatantly breaking speed limits, a long list of tickets.

Since86
02-05-2008, 01:32 PM
Then answer the question.

Do you speed?

A long list of tickets? Please.

I'm never at or under the speed limit and I have one to my name, which I just recently got and it was because it was in a DUI watch zone. 90% of drivers on the road are above the speed limit if they're not accelerating from a recent stop.

heywoode
02-05-2008, 01:50 PM
This is just getting silly.

I know what the truth is. I think we ALL do.

Arguments can be made for or against, but the truth is the truth.

Believe it or not, I don't care.

Sollozzo
02-13-2008, 04:28 PM
Exactly.

I wonder Elgin. Do you drive 56 when the speed LIMIT is posted at 55? If you do, then you are guilty of breaking a law. What kind of example are you setting to your grandkids by breaking the law and putting everyone else in danger?


I know I'm late to this, but that is a ridiculous example.

Who are you putting at risk when you go 1 MPH over the speed limit, or even 5 MPH over? Don't tell me wrecks are caused by someone going a MPH over the speed limit because they aren't. I don't think drivers going 5 or even 10 MPH over the speed limit is the cause of most wrecks either (because everyone does it).

The only thing you are risking going a MPH or 5 MPH is getting a ticket. And we all know that cops usually don't ticket for 5 MPH over. You aren't really putting anyone else in danger when you do that and to argue that you are is silly.

On the other hand, breaking rules like Sampson did at Oklahoma and then breaking the same rules again at Indiana not only puts Sampson at risk, it puts the entire program at risk as well as the school and players. A little different effect than going 56 in a 55. It's not the actual rule itself that ticks people off (most agree it might be petty), it's the fact that he broke it twice and KNEW he couldn't do it...showing a blatant disregard for the rules. Just like it's not the actual sexual act with Lewinsky that got Clinton in trouble, it's the fact that that he lied and covered it up.

I think an example that would be better than the brilliant "56 in a 55" would be to use an example of how a normal worker would be treated by their employer if they broke a rule.

Say you work at an investment bank and you when you are boss says you aren't allowed to go gloat about deals at bars or whatever to your buddies. They have a policy in place that what goes on at the firm doesn't leave the firm. Is it a petty rule? Perhaps. Do people that work at other banks gloat? Definitely. But say you do it and get caught. Are you fired? Pretty damn likely. Are you fired just because you broke the rule? No. You're fired because you knew that you couldn't break the rule but did it anyway.

No one forced you to work at the bank. It was your decision to work there. But it's their firm and they can have whatever rules they want. Work somewhere else if you don't like it. Same with Sampson. Maybe it's a petty rule, but no one is forcing him to work int he NCAA.

That a much more applicable example to this situation than the silly "56 in a 55" example that you brought forth.

And I'm a soph at IU and a diehard fan with season tix.

Since86
02-13-2008, 04:54 PM
I know I'm late to this, but that is a ridiculous example.

Who are you putting at risk when you go 1 MPH over the speed limit, or even 5 MPH over? Don't tell me wrecks are caused by someone going a MPH over the speed limit because they aren't. I don't think drivers going 5 or even 10 MPH over the speed limit is the cause of most wrecks either (because everyone does it).

The only thing you are risking going a MPH or 5 MPH is getting a ticket. And we all know that cops usually don't ticket for 5 MPH over. You aren't really putting anyone else in danger when you do that and to argue that you are is silly.

You missed the point entirely.

I never made the comment that going 1 MPH over the speed limit put people at risk, nor 5 MPH, nor 10 MHP over.

Your second paragraph gets to what I was talking about. Why would you get a ticket? Because speeding is against the law. By speeding, you are breaking a rule.

He said that EVERY rule should be followed, no matter the rule, so I asked him if he ever speeds because then he would be knowingly breaking a rule.

It's not a silly argument. Petty? Yes.

EDIT:
Rationalize all that you want to, I ain't buying that BS on that every coach is cheating, yes I said CHEATING. Gee, I think that I will tell my grandkids that they can cheat on their tests because I think every other kid is also cheating. Come on give me a break. If that many other coaches were doing what Sampson did, they would be caught and punished as he was.

Retarded rules or not, they are the freaking rules for all of the coaches. We as individuals just can't pick and choose which rules we will abide by or which ones we will violate, and neither can coaches.

Kraft
02-14-2008, 02:10 PM
Sampson is about to leave the scene of an accident after going 120 mph with BAC of .23.

Everyone wave bye!

grace
02-14-2008, 03:16 PM
O.K. I'll put my :twocents: in.

I admit it I speed. If you've driven in NJ or Detroit it's either speed or get run over. However, if I'd gotten a ticket and I knew the next one was going to cost me my $500,000 bonus you can bet your hind end my cruise control would be set at least 1 mile UNDER the limit.

And as for car accidents I wasn't even up to speed yet when I got t-bone by some bone head who ran a stop sign. Not sure how that correlates to NCAA infractions.

Elgin56
02-14-2008, 03:52 PM
You missed the point entirely.

I never made the comment that going 1 MPH over the speed limit put people at risk, nor 5 MPH, nor 10 MHP over.

Your second paragraph gets to what I was talking about. Why would you get a ticket? Because speeding is against the law. By speeding, you are breaking a rule.

He said that EVERY rule should be followed, no matter the rule, so I asked him if he ever speeds because then he would be knowingly breaking a rule.

It's not a silly argument. Petty? Yes.

EDIT:

Welllllll, how about admitting that I was right about Sampson? It will only hurt for a little while.

heywoode
02-14-2008, 09:17 PM
I'm not saying I like what he is doing to IU's reputation, but then again, IU has been upfront and forthcoming with everything, and even the NCAA is saying that IU is pretty much a victim here. So far, IU has been harder on themselves than the NCAA has been on them. He lied to the NCAA as much as he lied to IU. That will probably be his undoing.

Since86 is still right, rules get broken all the time, and there are no white knights. He is also right about the analogy. You come off as pretty self-righteous and preachy.

That's fine. You don't like the guy, and your reasons aren't totally bad or wrong ones. I'll admit I'm fine with IU firing Sampson and I'm fine with admitting the guy is a chronic rule breaker. I wanted to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but not sure he deserves it anymore.

How about you admitting that your statement about the absoluteness of following rules was a little over the top?

Big Smooth
02-14-2008, 10:16 PM
O.K. I'll put my :twocents: in.

I admit it I speed. If you've driven in NJ or Detroit it's either speed or get run over. However, if I'd gotten a ticket and I knew the next one was going to cost me my $500,000 bonus you can bet your hind end my cruise control would be set at least 1 mile UNDER the limit.

And as for car accidents I wasn't even up to speed yet when I got t-bone by some bone head who ran a stop sign. Not sure how that correlates to NCAA infractions.

I've gotten speeding tickets three times and deferred them on each occasion, which means you pay the fine but if you do not get another ticket for one year then it never goes on your driving record i.e. no points lost. It's like it did not happen except your wallet gets lighter. So in essence, I've been on "probation" three times and I was certainly very careful about my driving habits at those times. :D Unlike Kelvin, I at least waited until I was off probation to blatantly break the rules again. :p

Elgin56
02-14-2008, 10:17 PM
I'm not saying I like what he is doing to IU's reputation, but then again, IU has been upfront and forthcoming with everything, and even the NCAA is saying that IU is pretty much a victim here. So far, IU has been harder on themselves than the NCAA has been on them. He lied to the NCAA as much as he lied to IU. That will probably be his undoing.

Since86 is still right, rules get broken all the time, and there are no white knights. He is also right about the analogy. You come off as pretty self-righteous and preachy.

That's fine. You don't like the guy, and your reasons aren't totally bad or wrong ones. I'll admit I'm fine with IU firing Sampson and I'm fine with admitting the guy is a chronic rule breaker. I wanted to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but not sure he deserves it anymore.

How about you admitting that your statement about the absoluteness of following rules was a little over the top?


Preachy? Funny, that's what my wife says about me sometimes.

Don't you know that I am never wrong? :)

heywoode
02-14-2008, 11:28 PM
Preachy? Funny, that's what my wife says about me sometimes.

Don't you know that I am never wrong? :)

Spoken like a true....ME.

:cool:

Since86
02-18-2008, 03:30 PM
Welllllll, how about admitting that I was right about Sampson? It will only hurt for a little while.

You're not right though.

I still couldn't care anymore about too many phone calls. The other major incidents I care about, considering they're major.

Lying to the school and to the NCAA is my biggest problem. The NCAA is a power-trip organization and lying to people that have their attitude just causes you bigger trouble in the long run.

He should be fired for major violations and lying, but I still have the same opinion about something as stupid as too many phone calls.

And people still aren't getting the analogy about speeding. I'm not saying anything about being caught and getting a ticket. I'm talking about his absurdness saying that knowingly breaking any rule is wrong no matter how small or retarded it is.

He never answered my question about if he ever went over the speed limit because it makes him look like a hypocrit.

Elgin56
02-18-2008, 05:27 PM
You're not right though.

I still couldn't care anymore about too many phone calls. The other major incidents I care about, considering they're major.

Lying to the school and to the NCAA is my biggest problem. The NCAA is a power-trip organization and lying to people that have their attitude just causes you bigger trouble in the long run.

He should be fired for major violations and lying, but I still have the same opinion about something as stupid as too many phone calls.

And people still aren't getting the analogy about speeding. I'm not saying anything about being caught and getting a ticket. I'm talking about his absurdness saying that knowingly breaking any rule is wrong no matter how small or retarded it is.

He never answered my question about if he ever went over the speed limit because it makes him look like a hypocrit.

Now what do you think he lied about? HMMMMM.

I think you need to go back to the drawing board, because your silly speeding analogy, is just plain silly.

When I am wrong I admit it, you however seem to be unable to admit that you were wrong, so you continue with the spin BS.

Arcadian
02-18-2008, 05:45 PM
Belichick did nothing wrong and if he did everyone else does it, too.