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NapTonius Monk
01-21-2008, 12:30 PM
Who would be your team MVP at this point in the season? I'd nominate Mike Dunleavy. He has been our most productive player. Although, it's hard to overlook Jamaal. I know that there have been some frustrating moments with him, but the case could be made that he is actually our most indispensable player right now (although Diener has been playing well of late).

JayRedd
01-21-2008, 12:44 PM
Junior. Easily.

Hicks
01-21-2008, 12:57 PM
It has to be Mike Dunleavy.

idioteque
01-21-2008, 01:15 PM
I'd say Dunleavy as well. Out of all of our players we have, HIS playing well most likely increases our chances of winning a game. Granger would be a somewhat distant second.

andreialta
01-21-2008, 01:37 PM
Mike!

Mourning
01-21-2008, 01:48 PM
Dun Dun, followed by Danny. I would say Dun Dun followed by Jamaal, closely followed by Danny, but to me Tinsley has been a pretty big (negative)distraction the last few months to the team, so that to me plummets his value for Team MVP.

Pitty as he started out so strong.

Shade
01-21-2008, 01:53 PM
Dunleavy, then Tinsley.

If he had come on earlier, a case could have been made for Rush as well.

Suaveness
01-21-2008, 01:54 PM
The fans who actually bothered going to games this season

Peck
01-21-2008, 02:10 PM
Sorry to disagree with everybody but the sadest part of this season is that the MVP is Jamaal Tinsley.

That is not a good thing btw, but when Jamaal has been on and playing the right way early on we were a much better team. Once we over used him, he got injured and couldn't play you saw what our team looked like without him. Now since he's come back he has been in a funk for whatever reason and we are not the same.

Mike has good games and some avg. games and we can win or lose. But Jamaal has a bad game and we have almost no chance.

I blame Bird for not getting a backup.

Hicks
01-21-2008, 02:15 PM
The fans who actually bothered going to games this season

:happydanc

:suicide4:

Sollozzo
01-21-2008, 02:42 PM
Any team that Jamaal Tinsley is an MVP of is a mediocre team going absolutely nowhere. And that being said, Tinsley is unfortunately the MVP of this team.

LoneGranger33
01-21-2008, 03:06 PM
Kareem Rush.

Trader Joe
01-21-2008, 03:18 PM
Any team that Jamaal Tinsley is an MVP of is a mediocre team going absolutely nowhere.

This is true, but thats where we are right now.

Alpolloloco
01-21-2008, 03:29 PM
Danny of course.

The Hustler
01-21-2008, 03:35 PM
Jamaal, look back to those games a few months back, there is a reason he won a lot of Indy fans at the start of this season.

I think his good play has resulted in more victories than any other player, by a long way.

And yes, i agree, it says a lot about our team!

NapTonius Monk
01-21-2008, 03:40 PM
Kareem Rush.

I am absolutely thrilled with him in the starting lineup! When the 3-pointers fly from him, there's a bit of expectation that it's going in! I hope we don't lose him in the offseason.

Young
01-21-2008, 03:59 PM
It has to be Mike.

Mike has been the most consistant all year.

Jamaal probably was but has fallen off as of late. Same ol same ol I guess.

Danny has sort of come and gone. Some games, great, other games no so great. He just has been a little bit inconsistant IMO.

Kareem has came on strong as of late. Hasn't done it the whole year though like Mike. I do hope Kareem can keep up his strong play. It's great to see.

Since86
01-21-2008, 04:32 PM
I think his good play has resulted in more victories than any other player, by a long way.

And his bad play has resulted in more losses than any other player, by a long way as well.

Unclebuck
01-22-2008, 10:35 AM
Sorry to disagree with everybody but the sadest part of this season is that the MVP is Jamaal Tinsley.

That is not a good thing btw, but when Jamaal has been on and playing the right way early on we were a much better team. Once we over used him, he got injured and couldn't play you saw what our team looked like without him. Now since he's come back he has been in a funk for whatever reason and we are not the same.

Mike has good games and some avg. games and we can win or lose. But Jamaal has a bad game and we have almost no chance.




I understand your point and I have said that by far our most important player is Jamaal. But I cannot vote for him as the MVP because of what he pulled here the past week or so, and also for his at times utter lack of defensive effort.

So JT is our most important, but the most valuable player is Mike - he has played every game - his effort level doesn't change, his understanding of the defensive and offensive system is the best on the team - No, Dunleavy has been our MVP. The team is better when he's on the floor, whether he's scoring or not

The Hustler
01-22-2008, 10:48 AM
And his bad play has resulted in more losses than any other player, by a long way as well.

Possibly true, but i think if we had played this whole season without Jamaal we would have a lot less victories than we do now, more so than any other player on this team, so, unfortunatly, i see him as being our most valuable player.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-22-2008, 11:03 AM
Tinsley or Granger...without one of them we are sitting at 4 wins. We got this though! playoff push here we come!

idioteque
01-22-2008, 11:56 AM
I would say Kareem Rush is our most improved player at this point.

This guy was so incredibly awful at the beginning of the season, it was painful to watch and he didn't even look like a D-League caliber player out there some nights.

He's turned into a very solid player. I think the first night of his great play was December 12th, when he scored 22 in that win over the Bulls. Since then he's been pretty consistent about scoring in double figures.

Evan_The_Dude
01-22-2008, 11:58 AM
I'd give it to Dunleavy. Tinsley is definitely the close runner up, but Tinsley's strongest number is his 8.7 assists per game. Somebody has to finish those. Shooting 45% from the floor and 41% from three, grabbing 6 boards per game, 3 assists, and a steal per game, while shooting 84% from the line I'd say Dunleavy is the man.

Danny isn't very far behind, and if Rush remains a starter for the rest of the season and plays like he's been, he'll easily be the full season MVP. Let's not forget about Jeff Foster though. All those extra possessions have to be worth some honorable mention.

Since86
01-22-2008, 01:23 PM
Possibly true, but i think if we had played this whole season without Jamaal we would have a lot less victories than we do now, more so than any other player on this team, so, unfortunatly, i see him as being our most valuable player.

How can the term 'valuable' mean good half the time, bad the other half? Sorry, but when I think of something valuable I want to hold on to it, or sell it because I can get a lot of worth out of it.

Tinsley is neither. I don't want to hold on to him because in the famous words of Forrest Gump, "you never know what you're gonna get," and teams would laugh while hanging up the phone if we tried to get a trade that would actually bring in value for him.

Like UB said, is he the most important player? Yes, unfortunately he is. But is he valuable? Hardly.

Mourning
01-22-2008, 01:49 PM
How can the term 'valuable' mean good half the time, bad the other half? Sorry, but when I think of something valuable I want to hold on to it, or sell it because I can get a lot of worth out of it.

Tinsley is neither. I don't want to hold on to him because in the famous words of Forrest Gump, "you never know what you're gonna get," and teams would laugh while hanging up the phone if we tried to get a trade that would actually bring in value for him.

Like UB said, is he the most important player? Yes, unfortunately he is. But is he valuable? Hardly.

:ding:

BoomBaby33
01-22-2008, 01:55 PM
My MVP is a 2 headed monster!

Mike Dunleavey & Danny Granger.

It seems as they go, so do the Pacers. Adn with JO out of the lienup, they seem to thrive much more in Obie's open offense.

jeffg-body
01-22-2008, 02:39 PM
Here are my top 5: I just can't have onekind of like chips.

1. Mike Dunleavy- Mr. consistency, poise under pressure

2. Danny Granger- Ups and Downs, next year MVP

3. Kareem Rush- we thought we got a shooter, this kid does a lot more.

4. Travis Diener- nice change of pace PG, gets the offense moving.

5. Shawn Williams- getting better and better.

The Hustler
01-24-2008, 01:27 PM
How can the term 'valuable' mean good half the time, bad the other half? Sorry, but when I think of something valuable I want to hold on to it, or sell it because I can get a lot of worth out of it.

Tinsley is neither. I don't want to hold on to him because in the famous words of Forrest Gump, "you never know what you're gonna get," and teams would laugh while hanging up the phone if we tried to get a trade that would actually bring in value for him.

Like UB said, is he the most important player? Yes, unfortunately he is. But is he valuable? Hardly.


Sorry to bump this back up but i feel i want to explain my position on this.

First of all i agree partly, i dont see Tinsley as consistant, and i agree he has little value overall.


But in terms of who as been most vaulable to the team this season, i think it is him. Not that long ago he was being praised as a new player, threads hailing him as a borderline All-Star and exclaiming his great clutch play. Now i dont know if you were one of those people and i doubt you were but that was for a good reason. He was playing well, and at times, he practically carried this team.

If we are talking about what is valuable for the team, in terms of this season so far, then surely wins are the true currency. If we lose, we lose, no matter if it was one players fault and if it was by 1 point or 20, it is a loss! Much the same as a win is a win. When we reflect back at the end of the season, we as keen fans will look at performance, but the bottom line, the line that the public looks at, the line that the media looks at, the line that defines the franchise is the Win - Loss total. And for me, i believe he has contributed more to a possitive total in that aspect than any other player.


If we are talking about TRADE value, then yes, you are totally right. If we talk about future value, i also agree. However as the player who has been most vaulable for this team so far this season, i look to who has given the team the most W's compared to L's.

Since86 -
I know that i am never going to persuade you that Tinsley was our MVP this season so far, and i dont expect to, but i do hope that you see where i am coming from. I would also be interested to see your alternative, not just that you dont think it's Tinsley!

Since86
01-24-2008, 01:47 PM
Dunleavy closely followed by Granger then everyone else is out of site behind.

I'm not getting caught up in Kareem's recent play, because playing well 3wks out of a season doesn't erase 3mons of lackluster play. You just happen to remember the most recent first, and it clouds things.

I think MDJ is because he's the most consistant. Points and blocks are the only two categories that Granger beats him in and he only outscores him 0.2 pts/game and 1 block to MDJ's 0.3 blocks a game.

I think the Ps would be in VERY good position if they could get a #1 player, a post player, if they could hold on to both Granger and MDJ.

Or if they could get a reliable, read healthy, post player that would get JO's averages on less FGA who just shoots a better %, and get a reliable, read not a head case, PG.


If we are talking about TRADE value, then yes, you are totally right. If we talk about future value, i also agree. However as the player who has been most vaulable for this team so far this season, i look to who has given the team the most W's compared to L's.

I still think that Tinsley is directly responsbile for more losses than he's directly responsible for wins this season. There are very few games where he plays good and the team losses, but there have been quite a few games where he plays like he plays and they win inspite of him.

And I say that with a high level of confidence considering his **** poor defense night in and night out.

The Hustler
01-24-2008, 02:09 PM
Dunleavy closely followed by Granger then everyone else is out of site behind.

I'm not getting caught up in Kareem's recent play, because playing well 3wks out of a season doesn't erase 3mons of lackluster play. You just happen to remember the most recent first, and it clouds things.

I think MDJ is because he's the most consistant. Points and blocks are the only two categories that Granger beats him in and he only outscores him 0.2 pts/game and 1 block to MDJ's 0.3 blocks a game.

I think the Ps would be in VERY good position if they could get a #1 player, a post player, if they could hold on to both Granger and MDJ.

Or if they could get a reliable, read healthy, post player that would get JO's averages on less FGA who just shoots a better %, and get a reliable, read not a head case, PG.

I still think that Tinsley is directly responsbile for more losses than he's directly responsible for wins this season. There are very few games where he plays good and the team losses, but there have been quite a few games where he plays like he plays and they win inspite of him.

And I say that with a high level of confidence considering his **** poor defense night in and night out.


Fair points, i guess we disagree on Tinsley providing more wins, i see a fair percentage of the wins we have as wins we wouldn't have without Tinsley, especially earlier in the season. I honestly can't see us winning half those games we did back earlier in the season, the idea off Deiner/Owens/Marquis making up those 36 minutes at the point back then, i could have seen us only having 8 or 9 wins at this point. Not forgetting that diener couldn't shoot to save his life, Marquis was trying to learn the position and Owens with absolutely no NBA experience. The idea we could have even competed with teams is hard for me to imagine.

In terms as him costing us victories, yes there are a few situations, most of them recent, but 2 months ago, the games he cost us were very few and game he was winning for us were fairly regular.

You are very, very, correct when you say people remember the near past a lot more than the distant, i think people have forgot just how well Tinsley was playing at times this season! The fuss may have been over the top, but it was certainly not for no reason at all!


I appreciate you giving a responce as to who you feel is a better MVP and respect your answers, at least now i dont see your responses as just disputing other peoples views while providing none of your own! Dunleavy would certainly be second on my list, followed by Danny, and i agree, noone after that even comes close.


As always JMO

d_c
01-24-2008, 02:22 PM
I think the Ps would be in VERY good position if they could get a #1 player, a post player, if they could hold on to both Granger and MDJ.

Or if they could get a reliable, read healthy, post player that would get JO's averages on less FGA who just shoots a better %, and get a reliable, read not a head case, PG.


That would describe about 90% of the rest of the league: If Team X could get a #1 option post player while holding on to their 1st and 2nd best players (who are already on their team), that team would obviously be in a great position, or at least in a much better position than where they're currently at.

Even a post player that gets 15 pts, 8 rebs and 2 blocks (like Jermaine does) while shooting a better % is something every team in the league would look for.

Since86
01-24-2008, 02:32 PM
The difference between the rest of the league and the Ps is that those two main positions need to be taken by role players who know their role.

The Pacers have players who put up role players numbers but think they're the stars and the leaders of the team. I would want AJ back in a heart beat, because I think he realizes what he is. He's only shot in double figures 6 times this season, total. He has almost a 4:1 assist/TO ratio. He's a player that we had but shipped out to keep one player happy. What player? Why to keep Jamaal Tinsley happy because AJ ran the team smoother than he did.

I would also reference Peck's recent thread about the comparison between JO and Drew Gooden.