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esabyrn333
01-21-2008, 09:29 AM
Its nice to read something positive about the guy for once. I think everyone can agree his play has been the bright spot of the year for us.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7699640



Warriors fans who booed Mike Dunleavy when he played for their team and continued to do so each time he touched the ball last week at Oracle Arena, his first appearance there since being traded to the Pacers, are easily the NBA's most unrefined. Evidently they hold it against Dunleavy he failed to measure up (11 point average, 43 FG percent, 4.8 rebounds, 2.5 assists) to being picked third overall in 2002 during his 4� seasons with Golden State. In the minds of these geniuses, that's Dunleavy's fault.
Not Chris Mullin, the executive VP of basketball operations responsible for the selection.
Not Mike Montgomery, the college coach Mullin (more likely owner Christopher Cohan) chose, who was over his head in the pros and got the quick yank.
Certainly not the legendary Don Nelson! At the start of last season, the mad scientist deployed Dunleavy, a natural off-guard/small forward who can shoot, handle and pass, at power forward.
Why? Because Dunleavy is 6-9 and, oh, yeah, 206 pounds, meaning almost every night was a mismatch against Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Kenyon Martin, etc.
Nelson's experiment was doomed to flop and it didn't take long. Instead of taking the hit and confessing he had out-smarted himself, again, criticism was directed at Dunleavy. Nelson branded him "soft" to the Bay Area media who obediently got the message out to fans.
On the record, Nelson identified Dunleavy as a, gash, "blend player."
Instigating, er, industrious reporters relayed that self-serving comment to Mike Dunleavy Sr., who knows Nelson's snake oil act only too well, having played for him in Milwaukee.
"Oh, you mean a team player?" the Clippers' head coach sarcastically remarked. "Yeah, that's my bad. I taught my son that."
In other words, "Michael knows what he's doing. The question is, does Nelson know what he's doing?" Well, recent history verifies Nelson's eighth-place Warriors engineered the greatest first-round upset in NBA history in eradicating the 67-win Mavericks last year, their first playoff competition in 13 seasons.
Additionally, Nelson's team is in the thick of things at 24-17 before last night's game at Milwaukee, good for eighth place in the West.
No doubt, those same above-mentioned boneheads blame Dunleavy for the Warriors' lottery level during his tour and the eight seasons before he got there. The nerve of the nerd not to get packaged sooner to Indiana for Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington, Nelson's most abused whipping boy this season.
Conversely, it should be noted, in 28 years of coaching some exceptionally talented teams, Nelson's brilliance has yet to shimmer on a single conference final.
At the same time, Dunleavy is having his most productive and enjoyable season under Jim O'Brien, who understands how to utilize his skills and appreciates them. He's averaging a team high 17.5 points, 5.9 rebounds and is shooting 49 percent from the floor and 85 percent from the line.
Unaffected by Oracle's constant jeers, Dunleavy went for 18 points, 10 boards and seven assists in a five-point loss. A few nights later in Indianapolis, the Pacers came back from 16 down to win, 125-117. Dunleavy splurged for 24 points and nine rebounds. Dunleavy took his frosty reception in Oakland like a man: "I wouldn't want it any other way. That's how it was when I was here, so it's only fitting that's the way it is now."

Unclebuck
01-21-2008, 09:59 AM
Hope you don't mind, but I wanted to re-copy the article an add the paragraphs so it is easier to read. Good find though. And I'll repeat what I've been saying all season long, Dunleavy has been the Pacers best player this season. Sure he has some defensive weaknesses, but he understands the defensive rotations as well as anyone on the team, he understands the offensive system better than anyone on the team. Where as Granger at times gets lost, Mike is always trying, and more importanly he always knows what he is supposed to be doing out there



Warriors fans who booed Mike Dunleavy when he played for their team and continued to do so each time he touched the ball last week at Oracle Arena, his first appearance there since being traded to the Pacers, are easily the NBA's most unrefined.

Evidently they hold it against Dunleavy he failed to measure up (11 point average, 43 FG percent, 4.8 rebounds, 2.5 assists) to being picked third overall in 2002 during his 4� seasons with Golden State. In the minds of these geniuses, that's Dunleavy's fault.

Not Chris Mullin, the executive VP of basketball operations responsible for the selection.

Not Mike Montgomery, the college coach Mullin (more likely owner Christopher Cohan) chose, who was over his head in the pros and got the quick yank.

Certainly not the legendary Don Nelson! At the start of last season, the mad scientist deployed Dunleavy, a natural off-guard/small forward who can shoot, handle and pass, at power forward.

Why? Because Dunleavy is 6-9 and, oh, yeah, 206 pounds, meaning almost every night was a mismatch against Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Kenyon Martin, etc.

Nelson's experiment was doomed to flop and it didn't take long. Instead of taking the hit and confessing he had out-smarted himself, again, criticism was directed at Dunleavy.

Nelson branded him "soft" to the Bay Area media who obediently got the message out to fans.

On the record, Nelson identified Dunleavy as a, gash, "blend player."

Instigating, er, industrious reporters relayed that self-serving comment to Mike Dunleavy Sr., who knows Nelson's snake oil act only too well, having played for him in Milwaukee.

"Oh, you mean a team player?" the Clippers' head coach sarcastically remarked. "Yeah, that's my bad. I taught my son that."

In other words, "Michael knows what he's doing. The question is, does Nelson know what he's doing?" Well, recent history verifies Nelson's eighth-place Warriors engineered the greatest first-round upset in NBA history in eradicating the 67-win Mavericks last year, their first playoff competition in 13 seasons.

Additionally, Nelson's team is in the thick of things at 24-17 before last night's game at Milwaukee, good for eighth place in the West.

No doubt, those same above-mentioned boneheads blame Dunleavy for the Warriors' lottery level during his tour and the eight seasons before he got there. The nerve of the nerd not to get packaged sooner to Indiana for Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington, Nelson's most abused whipping boy this season.

Conversely, it should be noted, in 28 years of coaching some exceptionally talented teams, Nelson's brilliance has yet to shimmer on a single conference final.

At the same time, Dunleavy is having his most productive and enjoyable season under Jim O'Brien, who understands how to utilize his skills and appreciates them. He's averaging a team high 17.5 points, 5.9 rebounds and is shooting 49 percent from the floor and 85 percent from the line.

Unaffected by Oracle's constant jeers, Dunleavy went for 18 points, 10 boards and seven assists in a five-point loss. A few nights later in Indianapolis, the Pacers came back from 16 down to win, 125-117. Dunleavy splurged for 24 points and nine rebounds. Dunleavy took his frosty reception in Oakland like a man: "I wouldn't want it any other way. That's how it was when I was here, so it's only fitting that's the way it is now.

esabyrn333
01-21-2008, 10:17 AM
Thanks Buck

Putnam
01-21-2008, 10:21 AM
Great article.

Mike Dunleavy is a smart guy. I don't think anyone disagrees with this, though he's been criticized for being smart. Hearing him talk is no treat, since he isn't particularly eloquent. But, on the basketball floor, he is smart.

It makes me really happy that Dunleavy is doing better on this Pacers team than he ever did with the Warriors. I'm happy we've got a team where "smart" is allowed to flourish. And I'm willing to be patient with O'Brien when he tells us that the players still don't get it and that the key to success is the discipline to make and take only good shots.

The frequent talk about which player is our #1 option misses an important point: our #5 guy can score a backdoor open layup -- if we can just create that situation.

There is a lot of desire for a player (point guard particularly) that can create opportunities for himself and others. Yet here again, the best way to create is with a mixed and balanced attack.

Basketball as it should be played is constant improvisation. Baseball is rarely anything but individual performances. Football requires coordination, but each player is given a specific assignment on each play, and the term "broken play" is used to describe any play when those assignments are altered on the go.

Only basketball relies primarily on instantaneous action-and-reaction. You don't have to blow the ball past the opponent, and you don't have to deceive him. In basketball, it is generally enough to take what the opponent gives you, rather than trying to force anything. But you have to be smart to perceive the opportunity quickly enough to take advantage.

JayRedd
01-21-2008, 10:41 AM
That might be the worst opening sentence I've ever read.

Tom White
01-21-2008, 10:58 AM
That is a darn nice synopsis, Putnam.

QuickRelease
01-21-2008, 11:19 AM
I was eccstatic when we picked up Dunleavy. I loved watching him in college, and I was hoping the Pacers would get him. I've been happy with him, and for what he's giving us, his contract isn't extraordinarily that bad. He could easily be seen as the glue guy for this team. Maybe not the most important scorer or playmaker, but the most important combination of those things within the offense. I also want to note that these coaches like Bickerstaff and Nellie, who throw players under the bus like Rush/Dunleavy; I really love when those players succeed in the face of all of that.

Hicks
01-21-2008, 11:59 AM
Isn't "extraordinarily that bad"?? What?? It's not bad AT ALL.

idioteque
01-21-2008, 12:14 PM
I've grown to really like Dunleavy. He's a solid player with a good head on his shoulders, and I'd take him and his shot selection over Jackson's. He can be a little inconsistent sometimes, but not nearly as inconsistent as some other swingmen we've had here at times.

That being said, I don't understand what people are saying in regards to him being "smart" on the basketball court. He averages less than one turnover and less than one assist than Stephen Jackson, a player who most of you would say has a low IQ on the court. But the stats suggest that they average relatively the same number of TO's and assists this year.

Will someone clarify to me a little bit more what it really means to be "smart" on the basketball court? I don't mean to be a Dun basher here, as I've said before, I like the guy and I'd take him over the player we essentially exchanged him for, but I just don't get that term.

Infinite MAN_force
01-21-2008, 12:35 PM
I really like Dunleavy and when people talk about dumping salary for this team, I consider him being one player I would like to keep. He is a good fit for the style the coach is trying to implement. I don't think a team with Dunleavy as your first option is going to go very far, but as a #2 or #3, or "Glue guy" as someone stated, I think he is a very valuable player.

ABADays
01-21-2008, 12:35 PM
I'm glad Mike is here. There aren't enough Team players in this league. By the way, I was aware that Nellie has yet to coach in a conference final.

andreialta
01-21-2008, 12:37 PM
that guy sounds like me when talking about Mike!

great article, warriors fans are gonna be irate for sure

CableKC
01-21-2008, 01:24 PM
I read this article and 100% completlely agree. Dunleavy has become my favorite player on the team.

One thing to note....although Nellie was chastised in this article for playing Dunleavy at the PF spot....aren't we essentially doing the same with Dunleavy ( and Granger or Shawne to the same degree ) in playing Small Ball?

d_c
01-21-2008, 01:25 PM
By the way, I was aware that Nellie has yet to coach in a conference final.

Nellie has coached the Bucks and Mavs to conference finals.

d_c
01-21-2008, 01:36 PM
that guy sounds like me when talking about Mike!

great article, warriors fans are gonna be irate for sure

Why would we be irate? We have bigger and better things to worry about than Peter Vescey criticizing our fans about booing a player we don't like.

We're 25-17 and making another playoff run in what might be the toughest the west has been in years. It'd be nice if Vescey got some of his facts straight (like knowing that Nellie has coached a conf finals), but he was smart enough to note what Nellie has done with a team that was going absolutley nowhere (and I mean nowhere) before he took over 1.5 years ago.

I don't agree with everything Nellie does all the time, but before he took over, we were were a less talented version of what the Milwaukee Bucks are right now.

andreialta
01-21-2008, 01:42 PM
Why would we be irate? We have bigger and better things to worry about than Peter Vescey criticizing our fans about booing a player we don't like.

We're 25-17 and making another playoff run in what might be the toughest the west has been in years. It'd be nice if Vescey got some of his facts straight (like knowing that Nellie has coached a conf finals), but he was smart enough to note what Nellie has done with a team that was going absolutley nowhere (and I mean nowhere) before he took over 1.5 years ago.

I don't agree with everything Nellie does all the time, but before he took over, we were were a less talented version of what the Milwaukee Bucks are right now.

I think what Vecsie was saying is that he had never won a Conference Final, don nelson has been a good play-off coach his whole career but hasnt really gotten past that, kinda simlar to Jerry Sloan but Sloan has reached the finals

and youre right, Warriors fans have much more to worry about, bigger and better things! i see.

esabyrn333
01-21-2008, 03:45 PM
I don't think the west is nearly as strong as it has been in years past. Personally I think the east is catching up and the talent is more spread out in the west. I also think Boston and Detroit are better the all of the west.

owl
01-21-2008, 03:52 PM
Why would we be irate?


I don't know. Why do GS fans hate Dunleavy soo much. All he did was the best he could.
The excessive hating of Dunleavy is irrational. Heck Jackson and Artest are booed less
than Dunleavy was at the GS game and all they did was almost destroy the franchise
that is the Pacers.

CableKC
01-21-2008, 04:16 PM
I think that the Warrior fans have good reason to hate Dunleavy cuz he just didn't seem to fit whatever the Warriors were trying to do. But the level of hate that most Warrior fans have for him doesn't seem to be justified.

I would attribute the level of hate that Dunleavy receives from Warriors fans to the level of hate that Pacer fans have for Artest.....a player that essentially destroyed the franchise.

owl
01-21-2008, 04:26 PM
I think that the Warrior fans have good reason to hate Dunleavy cuz he just didn't seem to fit whatever the Warriors were trying to do. But the level of hate that most Warrior fans have for him doesn't seem to be justified.


What kind of reason is that? Like I said their hate is irrational. Weird. Maybe it is the weather.

d_c
01-21-2008, 04:30 PM
I don't know. Why do GS fans hate Dunleavy soo much. All he did was the best he could.
The excessive hating of Dunleavy is irrational. Heck Jackson and Artest are booed less
than Dunleavy was at the GS game and all they did was almost destroy the franchise
that is the Pacers.

Why do I have to explain this over and over again?

We don't like Dunleavy. We booed him when he came back. We like Jason Richardson and we're going to cheer him when he comes back and you won't hear a single boo. Is that fair? Maybe not. Do we need to justify that? No.

We have our reasons that we don't like him, but it's not like we need to check them out with everyone to make sure that it's morally justifiable enough to boo him.

He didn't jive with us. We hate him and he hates us. End of story. When he played us in Oakland last week, the animosity made for a more compelling game for both him and the fans. It was a great atmosphere and if you don't like that then you just may as well not like pro sporting events.

Since86
01-21-2008, 04:38 PM
You're failing to see the point of their questioning.

Do you have the right to boo anyone you want? Of course, but that doesn't mean booing them is rational or that it makes sense.

I could go in a boo the gas station attendee because the gas station pump doesn't go as fast as I would like, if I really wanted too. Doesn't mean I'm right for doing so, nor should I do it.

Dunleavy plays hard night in and night out, here and when he was in GS. He didn't cause numerous problems on and off the court with his behavior (see the Artest and Jackson comparison), and he didn't bad mouth the franchise when he left (see Harrington).

He didn't fit Nellie's style of basketball, and was turned into his whipping boy. He didn't produce the way you expect a #3 overall pick, but it's not like he blackmailed your front office into taking him, so why fault him for their choice?

You talked about having understanding for other players because they play hard, just aren't that good, so obviously you see the distinction.

It's like Dun literally slapped every fan's mother then laughed about it. He doesn't deserve that level of animosity, nor did he while he was there.

Again, do you have the right to boo him? Yes you do, no one is disputing that. Are you right in your booing? Not even close.

CableKC
01-21-2008, 04:43 PM
What kind of reason is that? Like I said their hate is irrational. Weird. Maybe it is the weather.
Fans can hate players for any reason. I agree with you on this....it just seems irrational if not way beyond what he did or did not do for the Warriors.

d_c
01-21-2008, 04:45 PM
You're failing to see the point of their questioning.

Do you have the right to boo anyone you want? Of course, but that doesn't mean booing them is rational or that it makes sense.

I could go in a boo the gas station attendee because the gas station pump doesn't go as fast as I would like, if I really wanted too. Doesn't mean I'm right for doing so, nor should I do it.

Dunleavy plays hard night in and night out, here and when he was in GS. He didn't cause numerous problems on and off the court with his behavior (see the Artest and Jackson comparison), and he didn't bad mouth the franchise when he left (see Harrington).

He didn't fit Nellie's style of basketball, and was turned into his whipping boy. He didn't produce the way you expect a #3 overall pick, but it's not like he blackmailed your front office into taking him, so why fault him for their choice?

You talked about having understanding for other players because they play hard, just aren't that good, so obviously you see the distinction.

It's like Dun literally slapped every fan's mother then laughed about it. He doesn't deserve that level of animosity, nor did he while he was there.

Again, do you have the right to boo him? Yes you do, no one is disputing that. Are you right in your booing? Not even close.

Again, we don't like Mike Dunleavy. We have our reasons but I don't want to expound several pragraphs on why because that's comletely besides the point.

If you don't like Player X for any particular reason (because he has a horrible haircut), then that's reason enough to boo him. You don't need any more righteous a reason to do that.

It wasn't just me. It was 18,000 other people in that arena. Go to most any Warrior message board and you'll see the same thing. We don't like the guy and the guy doesn't like us. The feeling is mutual and there is no love lost. There is absolutely nothing "not right" with what transpired on Sunday. We booed him and he got a measure of revenge against us by having a good game. That's pro sports is all about.

CableKC
01-21-2008, 04:48 PM
Why do I have to explain this over and over again?

We don't like Dunleavy. We booed him when he came back. We like Jason Richardson and we're going to cheer him when he comes back and you won't hear a single boo. Is that fair? Maybe not. Do we need to justify that? No.

We have our reasons that we don't like him, but it's not like we need to check them out with everyone to make sure that it's morally justifiable enough to boo him.

He didn't jive with us. We hate him and he hates us. End of story. When he played us in Oakland last week, the animosity made for a more compelling game for both him and the fans. It was a great atmosphere and if you don't like that then you just may as well not like pro sporting events.
I agree with you that fans can hate any player for any reason. We're just saying that the level of hate that he has garnered doesn't seem to be level with what he did ( or did not do ) to the Warriors franchise.

Dunleavy may not have jived with Warrior fans and may have done and said some things that irked them, but in no way did he do anything that would justify his reception in Oakland.

As I mentioned in another earlier post about Dunleavy and the boos he received......Warrior fans hate Dunleavy just like Pacer fans hate Artest....a guy that pretty much ruined the Pacers for 3 seasons with what he did on/off the court.

Since86
01-21-2008, 04:56 PM
You're posting is just as irrational as your level of hatred for him.

No one is arguing that you don't have the right to dislike him. Reread that again, because you're saying the same things over and over again, which everyone is agreeing with.

Boo him for not having the haircut you want, but don't all pissy when we call you out for being irrational, which is exactly what's happening.

d_c
01-21-2008, 05:00 PM
Dunleavy may not have jived with Warrior fans and may have done and said some things that irked them, but in no way did he do anything that would justify his reception in Oakland.


If you're going to boo, then you might as well go all out, which is what everyone did last Sunday in Oakland. He got booed during intros. He got booed when he went to the FT line. He got booed whenever he touched the ball or his name was announced on the PA. Hell, he got booed when one of his teammates LOOKED like he was going to pass Dunleavy the ball.

Was it overkill? Who the hell cares?

The point is, Warrior fans have been consistent in their feelings for Dunleavy for a long time now. There has been very little debate on our forums about this. Everyone has been pretty unified in their feelings about him for quite some time.

McKeyFan
01-21-2008, 05:03 PM
If you don't like Player X for any particular reason (because he has a horrible haircut), then that's reason enough to boo him. You don't need any more righteous a reason to do that.

You, your colleagues, and Stephen Jackson are perfect for each other. Enjoy.

P. S. Dunleavy is my favorite Pacer.

d_c
01-21-2008, 05:04 PM
You're posting is just as irrational as your level of hatred for him.

No one is arguing that you don't have the right to dislike him. Reread that again, because you're saying the same things over and over again, which everyone is agreeing with.

Boo him for not having the haircut you want, but don't all pissy when we call you out for being irrational, which is exactly what's happening.

There is nothing irrational about booing or about posts that even have to defend booing for any reason at all.

I don't have a single problem with any fan in any arena across the country booing for any reason and I wouldn't call any of it irrational. If you don't like a player (and we really don't like Dunleavy), that's rational enough right there.

None of that needs to be explained or rationalized by anyone.

d_c
01-21-2008, 05:08 PM
You, your colleagues, and Stephen Jackson are perfect for each other. Enjoy.

P. S. Dunleavy is my favorite Pacer.

LOL.

I guess our moral judgement in the bay area should be compared to Stephen Jackson's judgement at a strip club because we boo a player we don't like.

I'm glad Dunleavy is your favorite player on your favorite team and you don't need to justify to me why that's the case. He's your favorite player and I encourage you to go cheer for him just as I encourage you to boo any players you don't like.

Isaac
01-21-2008, 05:08 PM
If I were a Warrior fan I'd boo Mike because he plays with a lot of fire and agression as a Pacer, something he never showed much in Oakland, he's basically a different person now in the way he carries himself.

However, you have to realize that maybe the fact that he got booed as a Warrior was a big reason for his being demoralized on that team and not being able to become the player there that he is here.

Whatever the case, we got an excellent, excellent basketball player, and if its because the fans in Oakland were mean to him, then thanks for booing him while he was in your uni.

d_c
01-21-2008, 05:17 PM
However, you have to realize that maybe the fact that he got booed as a Warrior was a big reason for his being demoralized on that team and not being able to become the player there that he is here.


I won't totally disagree with that. He just couldn't handle pressure and expectations people had for him.

Some guys handle it better. Steve Nash got booed in his 1st stint in Phx after getting drafted. Then he (along with Dirk) got booed in his first year in Dallas after Nellie traded for him. That's because he stunk. But he responded.

But if Dunleavy played like he did in his first few years in cities like LA, Chicago, Philly, or NY, he would have gotten booed just as much, and probably more. You and I know it. Those cities have a way quicker trigger than the bay area, which is comparatively a lot more laid back.

Since86
01-21-2008, 05:21 PM
There is nothing irrational about booing or about posts that even have to defend booing for any reason at all.

I don't have a single problem with any fan in any arena across the country booing for any reason and I wouldn't call any of it irrational. If you don't like a player (and we really don't like Dunleavy), that's rational enough right there.

None of that needs to be explained or rationalized by anyone.

I wonder what your reaction would be if I decided to boo a player because he is black. By your logic I wouldn't be irrational, but my actions would be rationlized enough for you, just because those were my feelings.:rolleyes:

See how stupid that argument is?

d_c
01-21-2008, 05:25 PM
I wonder what your reaction would be if I decided to boo a player because he is black. By your logic I wouldn't be irrational, but my actions would be rationlized enough for you, just because those were my feelings.:rolleyes:

See how stupid that argument is?

You wouldn't be irrational at all. You'd be racist.

I'm just saying: don't over analyze why people boo or cheer at a game. There are a million things around the NBA and the game of basketball to dissect and analyze. Fan behavior is a pretty raw element and I wouldn't spend too much time dwelling on whypeople boo or cheer. Nobody writes books about why fans in Philadelphia behave as they do.

Since86
01-21-2008, 05:34 PM
You just made the argument that racism is a rational way of thinking?

I hope you're just now making the argument to make the argument instead of actually believing that.

d_c
01-21-2008, 05:42 PM
You just made the argument that racism is a rational way of thinking?

I hope you're just now making the argument to make the argument instead of actually believing that.

I said someone booing a player because he's black is being racist. If that's what that person thinks, then that's how he thinks. I would disagree with that thinking, but I'm not going to spend several paragraphs dissecting the opinion of someone who thinks like that. Don't overanalyze it. If a guy is being a racist, he's being a racist.

If a fan wants to boo a player because he doesn't like him, then that's all there is to it. Nobody has to explain to me why.

Some people here are spending entirely too much time dissecting the social/moral consciousness of sports fans.

Naptown_Seth
01-21-2008, 05:48 PM
That might be the worst opening sentence I've ever read.
You thought I liked commas and complex sentences. :eek:

But admit it JR, you gave this one to Mike Sr. It's right up your alley...

"Oh, you mean a team player?" the Clippers' head coach sarcastically remarked. "Yeah, that's my bad. I taught my son that."
GD I loves me some quality sarcasm. Seriously, that's freaking great.

andreialta
01-21-2008, 06:27 PM
heck, I was the only Warriors Fan here in the bay area, who liked Mike. During the last 3 years, ive gotten heat for wearin his jersey at school, or whenever we go the game and i say mike has been my favorite player.

but im just puttin out there, that, not all Warriors Fan dislike MIke!


hehehehe go on with your arguments!

d_c
01-21-2008, 06:44 PM
heck, I was the only Warriors Fan here in the bay area, who liked Mike. During the last 3 years, ive gotten heat for wearin his jersey at school, or whenever we go the game and i say mike has been my favorite player.

but im just puttin out there, that, not all Warriors Fan dislike MIke!


hehehehe go on with your arguments!

And I'm cool with that. If you liked Dunelavy, good for you. You're a fan. You don't need to make a list of reasons to anyone explaining why you like him. You went to the game, you saw something in his game or something about him you liked. Good enough of a reason for me.

I personally don't see what's "wrong" or irrational with anything that's transpired. A guy played 4.5 years in one spot. Fans watched him for 4.5 years and decided they didn't like him. He didn't perform well. He got booed. Then he got booed when he came back playing for another team. It was a good game and a good time for everyone involved. Don't overanalyze things that don't need overanalysis.

BlueNGold
01-21-2008, 07:05 PM
You have to consider the source. Some of the people booing are Raider fans.

In any event, MDJ's a class act here in Indy. He's actually playing considerably better than any other Pacer. He not only leads the team in scoring, he's pulling down 6 boards, making over 3 assists, shooting over 41% from 3 and taking care of the ball pretty well and limiting his fouls. He's actually worth the money he's being paid.

d_c
01-21-2008, 07:16 PM
You have to consider the source. Some of the people booing are Raider fans.

In any event, MDJ's a class act here in Indy. He's actually playing considerably better than any other Pacer. He not only leads the team in scoring, he's pulling down 6 boards, making over 3 assists, shooting over 41% from 3 and taking care of the ball pretty well and limiting his fouls. He's actually worth the money he's being paid.

The Raider fan population doesn't have much to do with the Warrior fan population at all. Go to a Raider game and then go to a Warrior game and you'll see completely different looking crowds. Yes, they play in buildings that are right next to eachother, but the fans of each team don't neccessarily overlap eachother in very big numbers.

The entire Bay Area has a population of almost 7 million people, which is more than the entire state of Indiana. They draw FAR MORE fans from outside of Oakland than from in Oakland. There are a lot of people here and if I had to guess, I'd say that most of them either DON'T LIKE or don't care about the Raiders. Hell, most people who go to Warrior games are 49er fans. LOL

Good for Dunelavy that he seems to have found himself the right place. I have nothing bad to say about him since he's been in Indy.

Putnam
01-21-2008, 07:56 PM
Here is the thing I like best...


Good for Dunelavy that he seems to have found himself the right place. I have nothing bad to say about him since he's been in Indy.



d_c kindly allows that Dunleavy has found the right place for himself, and it is Indianapolis.

During the final Carlisle years the Pacers were so dysfunctional that nobody was going to flourish here. I dislike Carlisle, but he is a better guy and a better coach than he showed here. Sarunas could have been a better player if he hadn't come here. Even Stephen Jackson is a better guy than he was here. For a while Indianapolis was just such a sick atmosphere than nobody COULD flourish here.

Well, the Pacers are still a pretty weak team. But now there is healthy progress. The problems are just those of learning a system and developing skills -- and some players whose skills may not be good enough. But the Pacers are now a team where players can succeed. Dunleavy and Rush are both having the best years of their careers, and Granger and Williams, too.

JayRedd
01-21-2008, 08:13 PM
I find it funny that people think it's wrong for Dub fans to hate Junior cause he seems to be a good guy who simply underachieved when plenty of Pacer fans hate Jonathan Bender simply because he had bad genetics and hate Peja cause he they think he's a pansy (same generalized reason Warrior fans don't like MDJ, btw).

Isaac
01-21-2008, 08:14 PM
I find it funny that people think it's wrong for Dub fans to hate Junior cause he seems to be a good guy who simply underachieved when plenty of Pacer fans hate Jonathan Bender simply because he had bad genetics.

I think more Pacers fans feel bad for Bender then hate him.

BlueNGold
01-21-2008, 08:20 PM
The Raider fan population doesn't have much to do with the Warrior fan population at all. Go to a Raider game and then go to a Warrior game and you'll see completely different looking crowds. Yes, they play in buildings that are right next to eachother, but the fans of each team don't neccessarily overlap eachother in very big numbers.

That may be true. However, I seriously doubt that Pacer fans would boo a player simply because he was not that good...whether they were drafted at #3 or not. I could be wrong about that. But, Jonathan Bender, who was drafted at #5, never got booed like that and was a far bigger bust than MDJ...although he hardly even saw action to get booed.

Again, I could be off base on this. I learned in kindergarten there is merit anytime someone tries hard and plays by the rules...regardless of ability. I just cannot believe that MDJ did not live up to that. Sure, you can give the kid an F, but it's just not right to spit on his report card too. I just don't think the malice toward him is warranted. Not even SJax and Artest get booed like that in Indy.

BlueNGold
01-21-2008, 08:27 PM
I think more Pacers fans feel bad for Bender then hate him.

Same with JO. Not sure why anyone would hate the guy. Hate management for trading Antonio, but don't hate the disabled.

JayRedd
01-21-2008, 08:37 PM
That may be true. However, I seriously doubt that Pacer fans would boo a player simply because he was not that good...whether they were drafted at #3 or not. I could be wrong about that. But, Jonathan Bender, who was drafted at #5, never got booed like that and was a far bigger bust than MDJ...although he hardly even saw action to get booed.

Again, I could be off base on this. I learned in kindergarten there is merit anytime someone tries hard and plays by the rules...regardless of ability. I just cannot believe that MDJ did not live up to that. Sure, you can give the kid an F, but it's just not right to spit on his report card too. I just don't think the malice toward him is warranted. Not even SJax and Artest get booed like that in Indy.

Oakland is not Indianapolis.

Different strokes for different folks.

Friggin Jeter got booed for weeks in the Bronx once. Some people and places are just more vocal than others.

d_c
01-21-2008, 08:41 PM
That may be true. However, I seriously doubt that Pacer fans would boo a player simply because he was not that good...whether they were drafted at #3 or not. I could be wrong about that. But, Jonathan Bender, who was drafted at #5, never got booed like that and was a far bigger bust than MDJ...although he hardly even saw action to get booed.

Again, I could be off base on this. I learned in kindergarten there is merit anytime someone tries hard and plays by the rules...regardless of ability. I just cannot believe that MDJ did not live up to that. Sure, you can give the kid an F, but it's just not right to spit on his report card too. I just don't think the malice toward him is warranted. Not even SJax and Artest get booed like that in Indy.

I'm not going to write an essay about the reasons Dunleavy was booed as badly as he was. It's unneccessary and would take too long. It was a combination of failed expectations, losing and a perception that he would never take any of the blame. I'm not going into any further detail than that.

I will add that it didn't have everything to do with just not being that good. How else would you explain Adonal Foyle (a guy drafted over TMac) getting CHEERED upon his return? It obviously wasn't all about the performance.

He just didn't hit it off with fans. Rubbed them the wrong way. He got off on the wrong foot. All the negative stuff started fairly early and kind of snowballed as the years went by.

I'll just say this again: If he played like that in LA, NY, Philly or Chicago, he would have gotten the same treatment, and probably worse.

d_c
01-21-2008, 08:45 PM
Friggin Jeter got booed for weeks in the Bronx once. Some people and places are just more vocal than others.

Yep. NY, Philly and LA fans will turn on their players in an instant.

The Bay area is a FAR more forgiving place than those. How else do you explain fairly good attendance for the Warriors through 13 straight seasons without playoffs?

Safe to say Dunleavy has his own special place in bay area sports lore. He's unique, LOL.

idioteque
01-21-2008, 09:04 PM
Okay, maybe Dunleavy isn't your usual third pick of the draft talent, but the 2002 draft was overall very, very weak.

The only glaring players you passed on, as far as I can see, were Amare (who would have been perfect for your system from what little I know about it), Caron Butler, Nenad Kristic, Tayshaun Price, and Carlos Boozer (he was a second rounder?!). Most of the other players to come out of that draft were garbage, some of them are decent roleplayers but they aren't as good as Dun.

Worst case scenerio GS drafted Dun about 5 picks too early. They passed on five players who were better than him, and out of these players only two of them (Boozer and Amare) are borderline superstars, none of them are superstars. It was kind of a bad pick for GS, but not exactly a Darko Milicic-level bad pick. Dun is a pretty good player in the right system. GS should have seen by his three years of college that he would not have been a good fit there. They actually ended up picking one of the more talented players in an incredibly talent-deficient draft.

Hell, they could have picked Nikoloz Tskititzvili (?) or Dajuan Wagner, two huge busts, who were picked right after Dun. Or they could have picked Nene, who seems to only be able to play about 30 games a season.

Remember who was actually IN THE DRAFT when you are criticizing the third pick.

I would have hated to see what these fans would have done to Jay Williams.

d_c
01-21-2008, 09:19 PM
I would have hated to see what these fans would have done to Jay Williams.

You can't boo an injured player who doesn't play. Bulls fans can't boo him because he was never around to boo. FWIW, the Warriors really wanted Jay Williams badly. Dunleavy was seen as not that great consolation prize and fans were less than thrilled with it. But regardless, the guys drafted around Dunleavy are really immaterial to why he was booed.

Dunleavy was just a guy who got off on the wrong foot with fans and it snowballed. Wagner (who's had serious health problems) and Tskitishvili would not have gotten booed nearly as much as Dunleavy.

Like I said: Adonal Foyle. He got cheered. Dunleavy getting it on the chin didn't have everything to do with performance. Trust me, you would have needed to be here from the very beginning to know why.

BlueNGold
01-21-2008, 10:53 PM
You can't boo an injured player who doesn't play. Bulls fans can't boo him because he was never around to boo. FWIW, the Warriors really wanted Jay Williams badly. Dunleavy was seen as not that great consolation prize and fans were less than thrilled with it. But regardless, the guys drafted around Dunleavy are really immaterial to why he was booed.

Dunleavy was just a guy who got off on the wrong foot with fans and it snowballed. Wagner (who's had serious health problems) and Tskitishvili would not have gotten booed nearly as much as Dunleavy.

Like I said: Adonal Foyle. He got cheered. Dunleavy getting it on the chin didn't have everything to do with performance. Trust me, you would have needed to be here from the very beginning to know why.

The only thing I've seen of substance is that he didn't take responsibility for the losses and that he didn't meet expectations. IMO, I don't think those two stand out from a billion other players that have played over the years. I think it has to be more than that.

Otherwise I just don't get the fan base...

Eindar
01-22-2008, 12:18 AM
Bender never got booed that I remember, and the general consensus is either frustration or pity, not blind anger. The only Pacers players I can ever remember getting booed while wearing a Pacers jersey are Artest (for single-handedly setting the franchise back 15 years), Tinsley (for being involved in too many late night altercations, further ruining the image of the franchise), and Jackson (for being prominently involved in both of the things Artest and Tinsley were booed for).

And none of those three were booed as lustily as Dunleavy, who committed the cardinal sin of....being in the wrong system.

This, in a microcosm, is why some franchises are perceived as "classy" and some are not.

d_c
01-22-2008, 12:20 AM
The only thing I've seen of substance is that he didn't take responsibility for the losses and that he didn't meet expectations. IMO, I don't think those two stand out from a billion other players that have played over the years. I think it has to be more than that.

Otherwise I just don't get the fan base...

There is more to it than that. And as I said, I don't want to post an entire essay or novel on this. We've got our reasons, but it's not worth anyone's time. You would have had to been here the entire time to experience it.

The Warriors fan base doesn't need to explain anything to anyone. We sat through 12 years of no playoffs and had good home attendance when we had every right to abandon the team after half that length of time, and that's in the bay area, where there are plenty of other things to do and watch.

Our fanhood doesn't need to be brought into question just because we didn't like Dunleavy. If that's the only thing Warrior that makes Warrior fans a questionable bunch, then we're some pretty decent fans. Entirely too much has been made out of this.

d_c
01-22-2008, 12:28 AM
This, in a microcosm, is why some franchises are perceived as "classy" and some are not.

Oh geez. We're classless fans because we booed one particular player we didn't like?

Question for you. Is there anything else that would cause you to think of our fanbase as a bunch of classless thugs? (Please don't bring the Raiders into the equation because the Warriors and Raiders have entirely different fanbases.) Are you that sensitive about one particular guy on your team being booed by his old team?

The same fans who booed Dunleavy were widely praised for creating the best atmosphere in the playoffs last year. The crowd helped the Warriors win 4 out of 5 games at home against teams that were clearly more talented. David Stern was at Game 3 in the first round and he said he felt as though he was at the NBA Finals.

I remember a few months ago someone made a post saying that the fact that Stephen Jackson wasn't getting in trouble in the bay area and doing well in his new surroundings was an indication that Nellie and the rest of the Bay Area fans had the same kind of value system that Jackson had.

An absolutely ridiculous assumption that isn't anywhere close to being the truth.

This whole thing with Dunleavy getting booed equating us to a classless fan base is just as bad. When we start throwing beers at people during a game, I'll agree.

Young
01-22-2008, 12:33 AM
Warrior fans don't like Dunleavy. So what who really cares? I sure as hell don't. Just like they don't care about what I think about Stephen Jackson.

So they boo him like crazy. Big deal. I'm not worried about it. They don't like Dunleavy. I don't get why they dislike him as much as they do but I really don't care to take the time to figure it out. They have there reasons so good for them.

If Warrior fans want to boo Mike they can do that. They can boo whoever the hell they want for whatever reason they want. I really don't care and I don't get why so many do.

I think Pacer fans are happy with Mike and the Warriors are happy without him. Wonderful.

d_c
01-22-2008, 12:36 AM
Warrior fans don't like Dunleavy. So what who really cares? I sure as hell don't. Just like they don't care about what I think about Stephen Jackson.

So they boo him like crazy. Big deal. I'm not worried about it. They don't like Dunleavy. I don't get why they dislike him as much as they do but I really don't care to take the time to figure it out. They have there reasons so good for them.

If Warrior fans want to boo Mike they can do that. They can boo whoever the hell they want for whatever reason they want. I really don't care and I don't get why so many do.

I think Pacer fans are happy with Mike and the Warriors are happy without him. Wonderful.

Best post of this thread.

Dr. Goldfoot
01-22-2008, 12:55 AM
Two words......Jeff George.

Eindar
01-22-2008, 12:59 AM
Oh geez. We're classless fans because we booed one particular player we didn't like?

Question for you. Is there anything else that would cause you to think of our fanbase as a bunch of classless thugs? (Please don't bring the Raiders into the equation because the Warriors and Raiders have entirely different fanbases.) Are you that sensitive about one particular guy on your team being booed by his old team?

The same fans who booed Dunleavy were widely praised for creating the best atmosphere in the playoffs last year. The crowd helped the Warriors win 4 out of 5 games at home against teams that were clearly more talented. David Stern was at Game 3 in the first round and he said he felt as though he was at the NBA Finals.

I remember a few months ago someone made a post saying that the fact that Stephen Jackson wasn't getting in trouble in the bay area and doing well in his new surroundings was an indication that Nellie and the rest of the Bay Area fans had the same kind of value system that Jackson had.

An absolutely ridiculous assumption that isn't anywhere close to being the truth.

This whole thing with Dunleavy getting booed equating us to a classless fan base is just as bad. When we start throwing beers at people during a game, I'll agree.

I never said "classless", but you did. Don't put words in my mouth, and quit being so defensive.

Indiana, San Antonio, and Utah are considered to be "classy" franchises. Detroit and Philly are considered to be "classless" franchises, in terms of their fans. Other fan bases fall somewhere in the middle.

I applaud the bay area for supporting the team through thick and thin. Your ability to pack a stadium and cheer loudly doesn't make you a class act, however.

I'm done arguing about this, as much like rommie, I really couldn't care less what goes on in San Francisco/Oakland, other than to say that behavior hasn't happened here, and I hope it never does.

Dr. Goldfoot
01-22-2008, 01:01 AM
At least they're booing the other team's players. I don't think the Indiana pacers are considered a "classy" org. anymore.

d_c
01-22-2008, 01:06 AM
I never said "classless", but you did. Don't put words in my mouth, and quit being so defensive.

Indiana, San Antonio, and Utah are considered to be "classy" franchises. Detroit and Philly are considered to be "classless" franchises, in terms of their fans. Other fan bases fall somewhere in the middle.

I applaud the bay area for supporting the team through thick and thin. Your ability to pack a stadium and cheer loudly doesn't make you a class act, however.

I'm done arguing about this, as much like rommie, I really couldn't care less what goes on in San Francisco/Oakland, other than to say that behavior hasn't happened here, and I hope it never does.

So in other words, to you we're something less than classy because we booed on particular player we didn't like. Anything else that "goes on" in the Bay Area you'd like to add to that?

Utah, BTW, is the same fanbase that started throwing stuff onto the floor in last year's playoffs after expressing displeasure with the officials after in one of their game's against the Spurs. But hey, they didn't boo Mike Dunleavy, so they can throw anything they want and theyr'e still a classy bunch.

Sorry that our particular "behavior" of doing absolutely nothing more than booing one player we don't like is so beneath you.

d_c
01-22-2008, 01:16 AM
At least they're booing the other team's players. I don't think the Indiana pacers are considered a "classy" org. anymore.

I think the Indiana Pacers are a class organization and have been so for quite some time. They did everything they could to put together a winner.

I say that despite the fact that they were the ones who put together a team with Stephen Jackson and Ron Artest. That was their choice but I don't blame them at all for this. They did what they had to in order to try to win. They don't play in a big market. They don't tank for high lottery picks, yet they've put together very competitive teams.

The Pacers have had a marvelous stretch of success. They've hit a bit of a rough patch right now, but that's something every franchise hits. I'm sure they can recover a lot sooner than most people think.

avoidingtheclowns
01-22-2008, 01:32 AM
At least they're booing the other team's players.

to be fair, they were continuing a tradition when dunleavy had been there. like the pacers booing stephen jackson.



people boo. people don't. no reason for anybody on either side to get hot and bothered. dunleavy was a bust there -- some of it was coaching, some of it was fan expectations, some of it was the way MDJ handled expectations/criticism. jackson was a bust here -- he busted faces in the stands, he busted defensive assignments whining at refs, he got a busted kneecap from the club during training camp. MDJ is having a career year, SJax is having a career year -- new teams (and fans) like them better, and i'm sure the players feel the same way.

thats how these respective fanbases live their lives. lets please move on.

d_c
01-22-2008, 01:39 AM
to be fair, they were continuing a tradition when dunleavy had been there. like the pacers booing stephen jackson.

people boo. people don't. no reason for anybody on either side to get hot and bothered. dunleavy was a bust there -- some of it was coaching, some of it was fan expectations, some of it was the way MDJ handled expectations/criticism. jackson was a bust here -- he busted faces in the stands, he busted defensive assignments whining at refs, he got a busted kneecap from the club during training camp. MDJ is having a career year, SJax is having a career year.

thats how these respective fanbases live their lives. lets please move on.

I agree with all of that.

I apologize that this thread has gone on for so long on this subject, but I have to come to the defense of my own fanbase when people start giving us backhanded comments and implying that we're less than classy for doing nothing more than than booing one particular player who we've never liked.

Isaac
01-22-2008, 03:44 AM
Woah, Utah fans- classy? Jazz fans have a reputation of being the most annoying and brutal fans in the league.

BlueNGold
01-22-2008, 06:22 AM
Two words......Jeff George.

Jeff George was a flat out jerk. Not a good comparison.

BTW, it should not take an essay to answer a question like this. I can see there is no real reason, so time just to live and let live.