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aceace
01-20-2008, 10:16 AM
Didn't see this posted yet, sorry if it has.

From Hoopshype:Nets and Pacers renewed talks and the new proposal would send Vince Carter, Marcus Williams and Jamaal Magloire to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal, according to the Bergen Record.

(I would do this, could take us to another level. Might be why JO isn't playing. Carter has 1 more year than O'Neal but at a much smaller salary, Magloire's deal is up after this year at 4 million. Williams is on rookie contract and could become a player)

Mods:I meant to put a question mark in the title, could you correct this?

jeffg-body
01-20-2008, 03:02 PM
I'd do this in a heartbeat.

bnd45
01-20-2008, 03:06 PM
I'd be real pumped if we could get Marcus Williams.

Not a fan of VC, but I could learn to like him if he was a Pacer.

Don't get why the Nets would do this deal.

Kofi
01-20-2008, 03:14 PM
Marcus Williams looks like Jamaal Tinsley 2.0 to me. Almost identical strengths and weaknesses. He just turned 22 so he likely has a lot of room to gorw, but I'd be afraid we'd be starting the whole Tinsley episode over again and wasting another 6-7 years on a guy who will never amount to anything more than average at best. Still, I like the deal a lot. It would certainly help revitalize my interest in this current Pacers team.

BoomBaby33
01-20-2008, 03:32 PM
Well, I like it for the sake of getting rid of JO, but Vincanity for 4 years? He is as injury prone as JO. Plus, Vince would be about the 457th SF/SG we have.

If we could get Sean Williams with Vince and Marcus, I'd say do it. I think we would need to try to trade some of our other sf/sg in another trade or add a third team, and try to get some draft picks.

Stephen Graham has way more ability than I had thought, maybe his play allows us to sacrifice Danny or Sean Williams.

I want to keep DunDun though. He is such a great team guy.

Young
01-20-2008, 03:37 PM
Bad trade IMO.

This does not make us better nor does it help us re build much.

Marcus Williams is similar to JT. We don't want that IMO. Not only that but Marcus ran into some troubles at UConn off the court that I don't want to touch. Maybe he is alright but I don't want to take the risk on him.

Vince is alright but just another wing. I guess we can have Danny or Dunleavy play center after this deal. That would work out well.

I just don't get the point. You get another wing, who is no better then Jermaine and a so so prospect, oh and a solid big but nothing special.

Not only that but Vince is owed more money than Jermaine, his contract is longer at least according to hoopshype which may be incorrect. If it is correct I certainly don't want that.

I know that we should try and move Jermaine. I know that Jermaine's value is probably even lower now that he will be out for a couple of weeks. However that doesn't mean you make a deal just to make one. It has to make sense and this trade makes no sense from the Pacers point of view IMO.

Naptown_Seth
01-20-2008, 03:41 PM
I assume NJ does this to shorten the Vince contract, otherwise it makes no sense.

Indy takes on Vince to get a serious star threat on the outside. There is no doubt that Rush and Graham have been nice surprises that could compliment other stars, but this roster has no power scorers on it at all. It's all complimentary pieces.

The Pacers then can move Tins with MW here for depth. I think MW isn't a solution or anything, but as a move to allow other moves it makes some sense.


Dunleavy just showed vs the Kings why he's still a problem. He just can't slow the ball on the perimeter at all, and if his shot is off he can become as big a liability as Troy. Dun's had a killer start to the season, way beyond what he's shown before in a full season. But the concern in the back of my head is that he will slip off the pace yet again.

To me a rebuild means moving Tins, JO, Dun and Troy. That's the money/contracts you just don't want to be involved with, especially if you did a JO/Vince deal. You want to build on Danny way more than Dun because Danny can defend at a high level at times and still shows tons of room for growth.


Let's also consider the draft slot. Hibbert might be in the Pacers rage. Lately some people have Mayo that low. OTOH if things get worse for Indy and they move into EJ range then you might have an issue with Vince already here.


A side thought, seeing the team without JO's rim protection vs the Kings was pretty brutal. Endless drive and dumps or flat-out drives for layups. Don't tell me JO hasn't had huge value for this team at that end of the court. That's a lot to give up.

Kegboy
01-20-2008, 08:13 PM
I'd lean towards doing this simply because IMO it's easily the most we'll get for JO. NJ's desparate, they're trying to get something done while Kidd can still play, and RJeff and Vince just don't work together.

I prefer Jefferson to Carter (I'm sure NJ does, too), but Vince is a better fit for our team. Plus, he's got a pretty reasonable contract for his talent. Of course, that's mitigated by his injuries and poor attitude, but he still produces, which is more than can be said for JO right now.

This coming from the NJ media is surprising. One would think they'd have to be asking for more than JO, especially with his injury situation. I can't see them being that interested in Danny or Shawne, what with Jefferson already there. I'm sure they'd love Foster, but they don't have the pieces to get him. Maybe a draft pick? :shrug:

kester99
01-20-2008, 08:19 PM
I might go for it just because I think Vince would be more shoppable than JO...a trade with further trades in mind. But I really can't see NJ going this route.

BlueNGold
01-20-2008, 08:26 PM
Interesting but concerning.

Williams was clearly being showcased against the Clippers, so there appears to be something to this rumor. He played 1/3 of his minutes for the season last evening. I would be concerned about trading for him because the Nets are not stupid. The guy appears to have talent, but there's serious concerns about his character.

Magloire has been on 4 teams in 4 years and is not finding the floor for some reason. Another concern.

Carter would hate Indiana IMO. He would probably sulk like he did in Toronto. ...but he would have some trade value...and he does have the ability to create his own shot.

Hmmm. I'd probably go for it...but I seriously doubt the offer is as described.

aero
01-20-2008, 08:30 PM
where do i sign ?

Lord Helmet
01-20-2008, 08:33 PM
I think I'd pull the trigger on the deal.

It is probably the best we could get for O'Neal.

We'd be getting a shot of life to the fan base, and a shot of talent that our team desperately needs.

aero
01-20-2008, 08:36 PM
I think I'd pull the trigger on the deal.

It is probably the best we could get for O'Neal.

We'd be getting a shot of life to the fan base, and a shot of talent that our team desperately needs.

I agree. also he could put up 40 points if need be, the man is a shooter and a superstar.

granger33
01-20-2008, 08:44 PM
If this trade went down:

Good signs:

1. Fan Base would sky rocket

2. If you think about it, were kinda get VC for free, JO is out injured 90% of the time, and even when his playing he cant get elevation like Carter can

3. Having scorers like Dunleavy, Rush, Granger, Carter in your high tempo offense will probably reguarly score 110+ points a game.

4. Obie wants small ball, so if we aquire VC we can move Murph to the 5 spot, or IMO put Jeff at the 5 and have JT,Granger,Dun,Carter, Foster our starting 5.

5. When JO has bad shooting games he usually brings everyone down with him, i do think if carter has a bad shooting game Dun Dun and granger will still shoot the ball well

6. Last but not least, not dumping the ball into JO and watching him. I only hope Granger and Dunleavy dont give the ball to VC and just watch and wait for a dunk.

LG33
01-20-2008, 08:45 PM
Ain't nobody gonna take the Bergen Record seriously. I know a lot of Nets fans, and none of them really like Vince Carter - the guy chooses shots like Stephen Jackson.

aero
01-20-2008, 08:48 PM
If this trade went down:

Good signs:

1. Fan Base would sky rocket

2. If you think about it, were kinda get VC for free, JO is out injured 90% of the time, and even when his playing he cant get elevation like Carter can

3. Having scorers like Dunleavy, Rush, Granger, Carter in your high tempo offense will probably reguarly score 110+ points a game.

4. Obie wants small ball, so if we aquire VC we can move Murph to the 5 spot, or IMO put Jeff at the 5 and have JT,Granger,Dun,Carter, Foster our starting 5.

5. When JO has bad shooting games he usually brings everyone down with him, i do think if carter has a bad shooting game Dun Dun and granger will still shoot the ball well

6. Last but not least, not dumping the ball into JO and watching him. I only hope Granger and Dunleavy dont give the ball to VC and just watch and wait for a dunk.

indeed, I think he is the missing piece to our puzzle. I know for a fact that about 5 - 10 people I know would go get season tickets tomorrow if we got Vince :blush:

pwee31
01-20-2008, 08:50 PM
Though I don't think this deal would happen, it seems like J'OB is trying to assemble a team simliar to his Celtic squad.

Instead of Pierce and Walker, it would be Carter and Granger.

Instead of Raef, you have Murph... blah =(

Instead of a vet lefty in Kenny Anderson you have a young lefty in Marcus Williams.

Instead of Battie, you have Foster.

Instead of McCarthy you Dunleavy.

Instead of Barros, you have Rush.

hahaha I know it's far fetched, just saying.

Though if this trade does go down, I see another trade happening as well, most likely involving Tinsley and either Quis, Ike, or Shawne as well.

The Pacers will have too many players if this trade goes down. I can see a 3rd team being involved for the Pacers before they decide to pull the trigger.

granger33
01-20-2008, 08:50 PM
Ain't nobody gonna take the Bergen Record seriously. I know a lot of Nets fans, and none of them really like Vince Carter - the guy chooses shots like Stephen Jackson.

Yes, yes he does.

But O'Brien wouldnt take that, just like we've seen with JT. If VC takes stupid shots and is rentlentless to team ball, he will bench or suspend him.

Kstat
01-20-2008, 08:50 PM
JO for Vince Carter...wow.

I wouldn't wish that deal on anybody. I'd be laughing inside though, I assure you.

Phildog
01-20-2008, 09:02 PM
JO for Vince Carter...wow.

I wouldn't wish that deal on anybody. I'd be laughing inside though, I assure you.

Who would you be laughing at?

Aw Heck
01-20-2008, 09:03 PM
Well, it's definitely the best deal the Pacers could possibly get for JO talent-wise.

But I'd turn it down. Vince is injury-prone and a notorious whiner. Man, if you thought he was bad in Toronto, he'd absolutely hate it here. For all of his positives, he can bring almost the same amount of negatives. There's a reason NJ would rather trade him instead of Kidd or Jefferson.

The only way I trade for Vince Carter is if we're somehow able to keep JO. (Not happening) Or if we're able to move him to a 3rd team in exchange for some other assets.

If the Pacers make this trade, it's just another sign that Bird doesn't want to rebuild. Which is what this team really needs, IMO.

Hicks
01-20-2008, 09:03 PM
I'd do it, and will hope for it.

granger33
01-20-2008, 09:07 PM
Vince is injury-prone and a notorious whiner
Yes, JO isnt any of them things

Alpolloloco
01-20-2008, 09:08 PM
I would LOVE this trade. It finally gives us someone who can take shots in crunchtime ... and MAKE them!

Aw Heck
01-20-2008, 09:11 PM
Yes, JO isnt any of them things
JO's injury-prone, but he's not a whiner. His deal is also shorter. So if we can't find a deal for JO within the next season and a half, it just comes off the books.

With Carter, there's four years worth of pouting and dogging it during games (decreasing his trade value along with his aging) before we have to eventually trade him for $0.10 on the dollar because he's become too much a problem.

I don't see too much good coming from a Vince Carter trade.

EDIT: Also, I think if the Pacers decide to trade JO, they should wait until next season. He'll be a former All-Star with an expiring deal. We'll probably be able to get something decent from a team that's looking to take a step up. From their perspective, if it works out, great. If it doesn't work out, they just won't re-sign him and get a serious amount of money coming off the books in the process.

sweabs
01-20-2008, 09:16 PM
So, we would get Vince and he'd become our number 1 option? That worked out well in Toronto........

Vince needs a guy like Kidd. He absolutely needs that person to perform where he should be.

Plus, Vince might be one of the most frustrating players to watch or cheer for. Honest to God - the guy can take it to the rim against just about anyone. But he seems to have it in his head that he's a much more effective player when he plays like Allan Houston pt.2. It's so frustrating.

This isn't even mentioning the fact that the guy is a wimp. I get on JO for a lot of things...and even though he gets injured a lot, the guy is tough. He plays through a lot of things (remember the one armed free throw at Denver?). Vince, on the other hand, loves to nurse things.

Also, I really can't handle Vince before and after games when he's hugging guys, and smiling and laughing with them. There is nothing that bothers me more than watching him lose a game by 20, and then going up to his pal on the other team and laughing around with them and kissing them. That's the not the attitude I'd want from a guy that is supposed to come in and be the leader/number 1 guy.

For those of you who compare Marcus Williams to Tinsley, I don't think they're all that similar. Williams is a bigger PG, and has a much better shot in my opinion. But I wouldn't want Tinsley being his "mentor" so to speak.

I wouldn't want this...at all. Of course, I have the Toronto bias...but seriously - I wouldn't want this. LoneGranger gets to see a lot of him as well in New Jersey, and it seems like he feels the same way. It probably says something when this "superstar talent" is being traded off and fans can't wait to get rid of him on both teams he's played for.

Hicks
01-20-2008, 09:19 PM
To me it's not that I'm that thrilled with VC as our best player, but rather we could even get a player like him AND a PG AND an expiring deal for JO in his limited (and quite possibly declining considering his mileage) state.

rexnom
01-20-2008, 09:23 PM
Value wise, this trade is as good as we're going to get.

pwee31
01-20-2008, 09:25 PM
Ha, part of me sees this trade going down and then Tinsley being sent to Miami for either Haslem or Blount.

Not sure why... just a feeling

BoomBaby33
01-20-2008, 09:30 PM
I wonder if we could get Krstic or Boone somehow. Those 2 bigs would work well in our system better than Magloire.

mitch55
01-20-2008, 09:38 PM
Re: Vince Carter for O'Neal?


3 way with Carter going to Phoenix, and Amare coming here works on Realgm.

3 way with Carter going to Phoenix, and Marion coming here works on Realgm.

3 way with Carter going to Atlanta, and Joe Johnson coming here works on Realgm.

3 way with Carter going to Utah, and AK47 coming here works on Realgm.

3 way with Carter going to Memphis, and Gasol coming here works on realgm.

3 way with Carter going to Milwaukee, and Redd coming here works on realgm.



i picked these 6 guys because there has been talk of their teams offering them around.



we still get Marcus Williams and J. Magloire



surely one of these teams GM'S like Vince??

grace
01-20-2008, 09:45 PM
The only good thing about that trade is people who have someone knew to blame everything on.

spazzxb
01-20-2008, 09:50 PM
The only good thing about that trade is people who have someone knew to blame everything on.

*** long as we have Tinsley that job is taken.

pwee31
01-20-2008, 09:53 PM
Re: Vince Carter for O'Neal?


3 way with Carter going to Phoenix, and Amare coming here works on Realgm.

3 way with Carter going to Phoenix, and Marion coming here works on Realgm.

3 way with Carter going to Atlanta, and Joe Johnson coming here works on Realgm.

3 way with Carter going to Utah, and AK47 coming here works on Realgm.

3 way with Carter going to Memphis, and Gasol coming here works on realgm.

3 way with Carter going to Milwaukee, and Redd coming here works on realgm.



i picked these 6 guys because there has been talk of their teams offering them around.



we still get Marcus Williams and J. Magloire



surely one of these teams GM'S like Vince??

If these players were available for Vince Carter.... there would be no need for a 3 team deal. :laugh:

Kemo
01-20-2008, 10:03 PM
can we throw in Tinsley as an added bonus??.. just to get rid of him? lmao...
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PLEASE?

aceace
01-20-2008, 10:16 PM
To me it's not that I'm that thrilled with VC as our best player, but rather we could even get a player like him AND a PG AND an expiring deal for JO in his limited (and quite possibly declining considering his mileage) state.Vince is a true sg. Has many abilities that we need. I think the benefits outweigh the negatives.

Oneal07
01-20-2008, 10:18 PM
You can get Vince from NJ without giving up Jermaine O'neal lol!!!

I doubt this will happen though.

McKeyFan
01-20-2008, 10:27 PM
I like it.

We need a change.

Vince can create, which we need.

We need a go to scorer, other than JO or JT.

We need someone to take the shot at the end of games.

We need a replacement for Tinsley.

We need another big body.



How's Vince Carter's defense?

Lord Helmet
01-20-2008, 10:29 PM
In the end even with Vince's apparent baggage, I'd still probably do the trade.

For the reasons McKeyFan just explained quite well.

Jose Slaughter
01-20-2008, 10:29 PM
Magloire's 4M comes off after this season.

Williams has just one more season on his rookie deal. There's a team option for the 09-10 season. So if need be, we can drop him after next year.

Carter is by far the better player in this deal. As far as his injuries go.... he played all 82 games last season, 79 the year before. He has played in 34 of 39 so far this season. Anyone want to compare that to O'Neal's numbers? 33 of 41 this season, 69 last & 44 the year before that.

Carters is shooting the ball better than the past 2 years as well. .456 on his FG%.

His 3pt FG% is also better this year than in the past 2.

His free throw number is about the same.

Point is, his talent level hasn't dropped off yet. I would argue that O'Neal's has.

I doubt the deal goes down because I think it would be a step in the right direction for us. So much has gone wrong with this team in the past few seasons, its hard to think something could go right for us.

mitch55
01-20-2008, 10:30 PM
If these players were available for Vince Carter.... there would be no need for a 3 team deal. :laugh:

i disagree. i'll use utah and ak47 for my example.... because they are short and easy to type. LOL

i don't know, just like you don't know, but let's say utah loves vince, but new jersey wants no part of ak47......

new jersey is trading vince to INDIANA for J.O.

has nothing to do with new jersey trading vince for ak47.

Anthem
01-20-2008, 10:49 PM
That would make me sad.

It's probably a good move for both teams... Jermaine would play his best ball in years next to Kidd and Jefferson. And I've been saying since 2002 that this team's biggest need was a top-shelf shooting guard. So everybody wins.

But man, I really don't like Vince. He'd re-energize the fanbase, sure. But I don't like his head.

Honestly, I'd rather a trade where we got one or two decent prospects (David Lee and Mardy Collins) and shed Murphy's contract. As others have said, Vince doesn't do well when he's not happy. And I could see him being unhappy playing in Indiana.

tora tora
01-20-2008, 10:52 PM
JO isn't "happy" playing in Indiana so I really don't see the difference.

Tom White
01-20-2008, 10:56 PM
On the surface, this is an interesting trade.

My questions would be about Magloire.

Several posters on this board have said they would like for JO to concentrate on defense and rebounding. How does Magloire stack up in those respects? I know he is a BIG guy, and at UK was a shot blocking machine, but that was college and years ago.

If Magloire can give the Pacers help in those areas, the trade becomes even more interesting.

MyFavMartin
01-20-2008, 11:05 PM
JO's injury-prone, but he's not a whiner. His deal is also shorter. So if we can't find a deal for JO within the next season and a half, it just comes off the books.

With Carter, there's four years worth of pouting and dogging it during games (decreasing his trade value along with his aging) before we have to eventually trade him for $0.10 on the dollar because he's become too much a problem.

I don't see too much good coming from a Vince Carter trade.

EDIT: Also, I think if the Pacers decide to trade JO, they should wait until next season. He'll be a former All-Star with an expiring deal. We'll probably be able to get something decent from a team that's looking to take a step up. From their perspective, if it works out, great. If it doesn't work out, they just won't re-sign him and get a serious amount of money coming off the books in the process.

This is everything that I wanted to say, so I'll just say "Amen!"

Anthem
01-20-2008, 11:07 PM
JO isn't "happy" playing in Indiana so I really don't see the difference.
Heh. Just wait and you will.

Say what you want about JO, but even his biggest critics can't say he's ever dogged it.

Pacerized
01-20-2008, 11:18 PM
I think I'd do this.
Here's a tough question. Assume the Rockets are really interested in trading Tmac. Would you rather trade J.O. for Tmac, or Vince???

Bball
01-20-2008, 11:25 PM
I think I'd do this.
Here's a tough question. Assume the Rockets are really interested in trading Tmac. Would you rather trade J.O. for Tmac, or Vince???

Which one has the shorter contract?

-Bball

MyFavMartin
01-20-2008, 11:26 PM
Keep JO and trade him next year for an expiring like Marbury or AI. Heck, trade him to Miami for expirings and throw in Tin.

VC is nice, but not anything to build on for the future. I'd rather see the Pacers go with a total youth movement... no it can't happen, cause you have to throw in an Ike to get someone to take a Troy.

Big empty hole in the post. We'd become the slow, crappy Eastern version of Golden State.

Anthem
01-20-2008, 11:40 PM
VC is nice, but not anything to build on for the future. I'd rather see the Pacers go with a total youth movement...
Exactly.


We'd become the slow, crappy Eastern version of Golden State.
This has already happened.

avoidingtheclowns
01-20-2008, 11:49 PM
Honestly, I'd rather a trade where we got one or two decent prospects (David Lee and Mardy Collins) and shed Murphy's contract. As others have said, Vince doesn't do well when he's not happy. And I could see him being unhappy playing in Indiana.

good luck with that. even isiah isn't stupid enough to trade david lee and take on a contract like troy murphy in one fell swoop.

MyFavMartin
01-20-2008, 11:49 PM
This has already happened.

Your truth will comfort me as I cry myself to sleep. :punch::console:

BlueNGold
01-20-2008, 11:55 PM
On the surface, this is an interesting trade.

My questions would be about Magloire.

Several posters on this board have said they would like for JO to concentrate on defense and rebounding. How does Magloire stack up in those respects? I know he is a BIG guy, and at UK was a shot blocking machine, but that was college and years ago.

If Magloire can give the Pacers help in those areas, the trade becomes even more interesting.

If you believe Magloire can be a 10ppg/8-9rpg player, you have to do this deal unless he's some kind of cancer.

The worst case scenario is if VC dogs it, Marcus heads out to 38th street with JT and Magloire is a bench warmer. What a freaking nightmare. I can handle a couple of them, but not all three...

indyman37
01-21-2008, 12:02 AM
I don't know what to think. Yes, this is probably the best deal we'll get for JO. And the way I see it, if the whole VC doesn't work out then we can just trade him. Shoot, we'd get a better deal off him than JO in the first place. But I'm not big on the whole Marcus Williams thing.

Kegboy
01-21-2008, 12:11 AM
To clarify on their contracts:

JO has a player option at the end of this year (for which he should be institutionalized if he takes). He then has two seasons left at $21.3 and $23M, respectively.

VC has four seasons left at $15.2, $16.3, $17.3, and $18M, respectively. However, the last year is a team option, and it's hard to imagine anyone giving that much money to an SG going on 35 (remember folks, Reggie was the exception, not the rule.)

Magloire is a $4M expiring contract. Marcus Williams is in the second year of his rookie contract, where the fourth year is a team option and the fifth is a qualifying offer.

To sum up, we're on the hook to JO for $44.3M over the next two years. If we made the trade, we'd owe Vince $48.8M for the next three. Our team salary would be $5M less next year, which would give us the opportunity to actually use the mid-level exception (though, after what we paid Travis, maybe that's not the best thing. :blush: )

[edit] Also, I found on RealGM that Magloire has a trade kicker. Don't know how much, but it shouldn't matter since he's an ending contract. It's possible it would mean we'd have to add more salary to the deal, but I doubt it.

joeyd
01-21-2008, 12:23 AM
The Vinsanity talk surfaced last year as well, but I don't think that JO was part of this talk.

I like JO. He plays hard and does not complain much. However, I hate it when he settles for jumpers when he should be driving to the hoop. Vince does both pretty well, and he's not a 7-footer.

Bringing Vince in sounds like the best business decision, short-term at least. I think Vince will attract more fans (although I don't think last season's Nets games here were sell-outs) and I think earlier posts suggested that the money works out slightly in our favor. I just wish we would get rid of Tinsely. But I would definitely go to more games if Vince came to Indy.

Targaflorio
01-21-2008, 12:25 AM
Might be too late to deal J.O. this season.

Indiana Pacers forward Jermaine O'Neal told The Indianapolis Star on Sunday that he is willing to sit out the rest of the season, if necessary, to take care of his ongoing left knee problem.

"That's really the prime option for me," O'Neal said Sunday afternoon, of sitting out the rest of the season. "We're going to rehab now like it was the summer, with an extensive rehab. If that consists of a month or the rest of the season, I need to take the necessary steps to not come back on something that's not really healthy.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080120/SPORTS04/801200442

Midcoasted
01-21-2008, 12:52 AM
Yea is he really "injured" or does he just not want to be here, and we want to stay out of the media hype. You can never tell with the Pacers anymore after the Tinsley incident the other night. I say if we can deal JO for Vince and a few others, and maybe Tinsley for a big or some drafts, then Id be much more optimistic. Maybe Ill start caring again.

This team has needed to deal O'neal and Tinsley for at least two years now and why they haven't is a mystery to me. But the last few years Ive seen O'neals' and Tinsleys' injuries and inept play keep us from being a contender in the East.

And it really has been a let down. I had been reading all these great articles how O'neal had changed his training and his diet and all this. I really believed he would find a way to stay healthy and fit our fast paced offense better. But to no avail. Though, I also was a Bender fanatic for a while, but I never saw this injury thing getting to O'neal like that.

Let's just make the trades already and look forward. Hell, if we lose the rest of our games we are a lock at a top 10 pick, and we have WAY higher chanes for a lottery.

EVeryone is like "rebuilding", this franchise couldn't take it. But a few more years of this, and we are in hot water. I say we make the moves NOW and save us pain LATER. We already have a good core of guys to build around. Foster, Granger, Dun, Williams, Diener, Murphy, Harrison, Owens etc.

Insert Vince and a decent point and a big from trade or the draft, we could be okay. Maybe contender okay.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-21-2008, 01:20 AM
I'd do this...I don't see why the nets would but w/e...

NapTonius Monk
01-21-2008, 01:21 AM
Interesting but concerning.

Williams was clearly being showcased against the Clippers, so there appears to be something to this rumor. He played 1/3 of his minutes for the season last evening. I would be concerned about trading for him because the Nets are not stupid. The guy appears to have talent, but there's serious concerns about his character.

Magloire has been on 4 teams in 4 years and is not finding the floor for some reason. Another concern.

Carter would hate Indiana IMO. He would probably sulk like he did in Toronto. ...but he would have some trade value...and he does have the ability to create his own shot.

Hmmm. I'd probably go for it...but I seriously doubt the offer is as described.

I've read similar statements from other posters as well. What, exactly, has he done since he's been in the NBA? I know he had that issue at UCONN, but it's hardly fair to handcuff him to that now, unless he gives just cause to do so. Has there been an NBA incident I'm not aware of? Also, I disagree with those who say this trade has no longterm value. We get a young up and coming point guard, Magloire's salary comes off the books, and Carter would bring excitement back to Indy. What's not to like about this deal. I say that also thinking that if they deal for Williams, Tinsley will be jettisoned shortky thereafter. Also, it looked to me like Stephen Graham was being showcased last night. Anyone else think so?

croz24
01-21-2008, 01:36 AM
do everything in our power to go for the nets 1st round pick in '08 so maybe include shawne + jo for vc + magloire + marcus/sean/boone + 1st...then we could deal vc back to tor for bargs + rasho...and our future may actually look bright :-)

Dr. Goldfoot
01-21-2008, 01:47 AM
Also, it looked to me like Stephen Graham was being showcased last night. Anyone else think so?

Obviously.


I doubt they'd turn the PG reigns over to Williams. I'm for this deal.

croxia
01-21-2008, 03:33 AM
bird & walsh plz accept this offer !!!

i wanna see showtime pacers !!

Kstat
01-21-2008, 05:15 AM
VC is the SG version of JO. Except at least JO doesn't fake his injuries...

I was onboard with the TMac/JO idea because at least TMac shows up when he's not on IR. Carter could care less.

BlueNGold
01-21-2008, 09:19 AM
I've read similar statements from other posters as well. What, exactly, has he done since he's been in the NBA? I know he had that issue at UCONN, but it's hardly fair to handcuff him to that now, unless he gives just cause to do so. Has there been an NBA incident I'm not aware of? Also, I disagree with those who say this trade has no longterm value. We get a young up and coming point guard, Magloire's salary comes off the books, and Carter would bring excitement back to Indy. What's not to like about this deal. I say that also thinking that if they deal for Williams, Tinsley will be jettisoned shortky thereafter. Also, it looked to me like Stephen Graham was being showcased last night. Anyone else think so?

The fact you have read similar statements from other posters confirms the fact that there are concerns about his character. No one is saying MW has done anything since he entered the NBA. But reputation follows people and there's good reason for that. The fact he sees little action after nearly 2 seasons has to be a concern. Sure, it's hard to supplant Kidd, so I might look past that...but he's set a long time. The fact the Nets (a well run organization) would virtually give him away, is another concern. Again, just concerns, no proclamations here.

Now, if Tinsley can be purged, I would not mind Williams coming in to compete for his position.

JayRedd
01-21-2008, 09:24 AM
Vince Carter is getting older, less athletic and richer by the day. Dude turns 31 next week. We want no part of him.

indygeezer
01-21-2008, 10:01 AM
Dead issue.

owl
01-21-2008, 10:27 AM
The Pacers have another 1-2 years of JO and then that era will be over.
Forget this trade.

Unclebuck
01-21-2008, 11:07 AM
I would do it, although I don't think it would turn the team around, nor would it increase attendance much if at all.

Jose Slaughter
01-21-2008, 11:08 AM
So, you're saying we need to wait 2 & a half years to get a fresh start!

I don't know about you but I'm starting to get old, I doubt I can wait that long.

Evan_The_Dude
01-21-2008, 12:10 PM
We don't have much to lose by doing this deal. We haven't accomplished a championship with Jermaine, and it's obviously time for a change, so why not? I'd rather have T-Mac but the Nets deal makes a lot more sense. Still, I doubt it happens. We're just not that lucky.

Hicks
01-21-2008, 12:23 PM
Obviously.


I doubt they'd turn the PG reigns over to Williams. I'm for this deal.

I disagree. He was only playing Marquis Daniels' minutes.

aceace
01-21-2008, 12:48 PM
I don't think anyone should be concerned about Marcus Williams with what he makes. If he screws up away from the game a 1-2 M contract would be easy to trade to just about any team. He has upside, doesn't get many minutes behind Kidd. V/C makes 6 million less than JO. Mag expires this year. This would not only be a good financial move for the future but V/C bringing his highlight reel here would add several hundred fans a game. IMHO

Rajah Brown
01-21-2008, 12:53 PM
How long would it take O'B and Harter to start tearing their hair
out over Vinsanity's disinterest in the defensive end ?

I'd guess about 15 minutes.

Skip the trade. Sit J.O. indefinitely until he's healthy and live
with the consequences. Hopefully, they'd include a decent
Lottery pick.

Mourning
01-21-2008, 02:03 PM
Tempting offer, but I still would say "no" as we won't be making the new start this team so obviously (IMO) needs. Worse we would lengthen things by having another big contract stick around 2 years longer then we would with JO. I would rather have a big expiring and either a young player or a good pick, alas won't happen. I hope JO returns for the final 10-15 games and plays really good, so we may still maybe have a little hope of trading him during the draft or in the summer.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

BlueNGold
01-21-2008, 02:22 PM
I don't think anyone should be concerned about Marcus Williams with what he makes. If he screws up away from the game a 1-2 M contract would be easy to trade to just about any team. He has upside, doesn't get many minutes behind Kidd. V/C makes 6 million less than JO. Mag expires this year. This would not only be a good financial move for the future but V/C bringing his highlight reel here would add several hundred fans a game. IMHO

That's a good point. He can easily be spun off if necessary. I just would like the Pacers to stay out of police reports for 12 straight months if possible. Doesn't seem like too much to ask.

VC is less of a boat anchor and can be dealt for decent value. Mags contract is a nice salary cut if he doesn't work out. The worst case scenario is worse, however, than the current state of things. ...but I think odds are that case is maybe only a 20% chance....so I'd probably do it.

CableKC
01-21-2008, 03:00 PM
A few thoughts about this ( assuming that it is true ):

1 ) Does anyone else think that Carter would object to being traded to Indy?

At this point in his career, I'm guessing that Carter wants to be in a good situation where he can win a Championship. I'm really concerned that Carter would grow weary of playing in Indy IF he feels that he won't have a chance at winning a Championship. I can totally see Carter pull something similiar to what he did in Toronto here in Indy. I have no problem with this as long as TPTB do not "fall in love with the talent" and does not consider moving him in the future. My hope is that IF THIS HAPPENS ( and I'm thinking that's a big IF ), TPTB continues to evaluate whether Carter would actually fit Indy for 1 full season and then move him before the 2009-2010 season IF it doesn't work out. To me, this seems as much of a PR move to attempt to draw Indy fans to Conseco as it is a move JONeal and actually get some value for him.

2 ) This will make several player expendable on the roster.

If the deal happens the way that it is suggested, we would have the following roster:

PG - Tinsley / Diener / Marcus Williams / Owens
SG - Carter / Rush / Marquis
SF - Granger/ Dunleavy / shawne / Graham
PF - Murphy / Ike
C - Foster / Magliore / Harrison

I'm guessing that filler like Owens would be sent to get us under the 15 player limit. I would look to move players that the FO doesn't think would fit or could get us players that can help us get players for the future. If TPTB will do what they can to resign Rush at a reasonable for a 2 or 3 year contract and could guarantee him 15-20 minutes a game, then I won't mind moving Marquis. But looking at the roster, we will now be top-heavy with Guards and SFs. If any of our SFs could be packaged with Murphy ( for a starting quality Big Man that could run, rebound, defend and efficiently score the ball as a 3rd/4th option ) or Tinsley ( for a Starting quality PG ), then I would definitely consider moving them help thin out the SG/SF rotation.

3 ) Anyone else here concerned that TPTB could mess these "rumored" trade talks up if they try to strong-arm the Nets FO like they did with the Lakers? I can see them trying to force them to take on players like Murphy or Tinsley and then see the Nets hang up the phone in digust. If this is in anyway true.....I would be satisfied with a deal centered around and just run away from the negotiating table as quickly as possible.

JONeal
Owens

for

Carter
Magliore
Marcus Williams, Nenad Krstic, Sean Williams or Josh Boone

This would be one of those opportunities to move a player with relatively low-trade value ( at least in my eyes ) for a player that actually has trade value...much like what they did with Artest for Peja.

Also....I would also go as far as to include filler like Ike or Harrison to try to get Sean Williams ( unlikely ), Boone or Krstic ( hopefully ).

CableKC
01-21-2008, 03:11 PM
After reading JONeal's comments on IndyStar about possibly shutting himself down for the rest of the season......this has ZERO chance of happening now.

NapTonius Monk
01-22-2008, 09:17 PM
The fact you have read similar statements from other posters confirms the fact that there are concerns about his character. No one is saying MW has done anything since he entered the NBA. But reputation follows people and there's good reason for that. The fact he sees little action after nearly 2 seasons has to be a concern. Sure, it's hard to supplant Kidd, so I might look past that...but he's set a long time. The fact the Nets (a well run organization) would virtually give him away, is another concern. Again, just concerns, no proclamations here.

Now, if Tinsley can be purged, I would not mind Williams coming in to compete for his position.

I was just wondering, because I haven't really kept up with him. I'd take a risk on him, and if he learned anything from J-Kidd...whooppee!!!!!

LG33
01-22-2008, 09:37 PM
I was just wondering, because I haven't really kept up with him. I'd take a risk on him, and if he learned anything from J-Kidd...whooppee!!!!!

Well, I heard Jason taught the young lad how to shoot...

BoomBaby31
01-23-2008, 02:48 AM
We'd be stupid not to take this trade. We need a PG at least a back up PG and JO isn't doing anything for us. Vince Carter is a big name, would boost ticket sales and get some people excited.

Kemo
01-23-2008, 03:49 AM
We'd be stupid not to take this trade. We need a PG at least a back up PG and JO isn't doing anything for us. Vince Carter is a big name, would boost ticket sales and get some people excited.


ughhh


we DONT need a PG to back up Tinsley...

we need to be RID of the cancer that is Jamaal ..

Diener is and will be great as our backup ... (*even though I'd like to see him start*)


As far as VC .. I'd love to have him on the Pacers , but only if I knew he would be happy here and that it would show in his play.... I do NOT want to see us get screwed like with the Peja deal ... That deal still makes me mad..

I don't think we could get anyone better at this point in time for JO ... considering his health/play the last 2 years.... I think also that VC has at least 3 more good , productive years left in him
But in all honesty we DONT need another SG , I think Rush will end up blossoming into the all-star everyone "thought " he'd have been when he first got drafted ..
I DO NOT want to screw Rush over liek that... I have no doubt in my mind that we will continue to see 20+ point games out of him the rest of the season.. and his value will skyrocket... our problem then will be KEEPING him in Indiana..

Back to the JO/VC topic......

The ONLY way PERIOD I would do this trade is if we could package Tinsley up with him

I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have a Pacers team without Tinsley , than without JO ...
I like JO , and want to see him stay... but as long as Tinsley is here.. no matter who we trade for , we will still NEVER get anywhere with him calling the plays running the team...

I'm sorry , but flashes of good basketball play from time to time.. does NOT make up for absolute horrid decision-making on the basketball court......


In my opinion , THE absolute most important position on a "TEAM" is that of the point guard...
... and when that point guard is CONSTANTLY making bad decisions , it affects the WHOLE TEAM... and the team chemistry on the court ..
Then you start seeing more contested and overall poor shot selection , because then everyone else on the team has to try and compensate for it..relying more on individual play instead of functioning as one unit... aka a TEAM...

I would go so far as to say... that ....
If we signed a 32 year old '87 / '88 era Larry Bird RIGHT NOW .. in his prime ..... and put him on the same team with Jamaal Tinsley running the show , one of a few things would happen... IMO

A. It would turn out to be a "him" or "me" situation .. After a few years of playing with Jamaal at starting pg .. I think Bird would be so fed up that he would use his pull as a superstar to have mgmt trade Tinsley , OR if they wouldnt , to trade him...

or

B. Larry woulda done busted Mel-Mel in the mouth..

LOL

That's why I don't understand why Bird hasnt got rid of Tinsley yet... it really baffles me... there must be more to it than we know... or Birdmust be getting Alzheimers or somethin .. lol

dohman
01-23-2008, 04:07 AM
I know this is premature but if rush is getting into the groove and scoring 15 to 25 points a game do we want carter on our team? I know he is on another level but would the output be much different?

Kofi
01-23-2008, 04:32 AM
Carter is an All-Star. Kareem Rush is a solid backup. Big difference.

For all the hate Vince Carter receives, he's a career 24/5/4 guy, and is even better in the playoffs, where he's averaged 27/7/5 in 42 career games. Those are Hall of Fame numbers. In fact, if we acquired Carter, he'd be easily the most talented player in Pacers NBA history, including Reggie.

Kemo
01-23-2008, 04:47 AM
Carter is an All-Star. Kareem Rush is a solid backup. Big difference.
.


true.... BUT why do we wanna chance losing a near future all star .. whom could end up being a face of the Pacers for his career...... for an all star that is within 2 to 4 years max from retiring??

I agree though that VC can , if playing with the right people , can make a .500 team better ..

BUT bear this in mind... If Carter can't lead the 76'rs to an East Championship game WITH Jason Kidd running the team , Can you HONESTLY tell me he could with Tinsley at the helm??

I'll answer this one myself....

.
.
.
.
.
.
HELL NO!! lol ... would NEVER happen ..

I like VC..
but
I don't think Conseco Fieldhouse is big enough for both their egos..lol

Reckoner
01-23-2008, 06:39 AM
If we did that trade the first thing I'd do is try and move VC for someone who plays a position (PF, C, or PG) that we are weak in, or expiring contracts and draft picks.

I don't think Carter, especially since he plays in positions where we are pretty solid already, improves this team enough, if at all, to not at least see if we can turn a decent trade into a great one.

Kemo
01-23-2008, 06:50 AM
If we did that trade the first thing I'd do is try and move VC for someone who plays a position (PF, C, or PG) that we are weak in, or expiring contracts and draft picks.

I don't think Carter, especially since he plays in positions where we are pretty solid already, improves this team enough, if at all, to not at least see if we can turn a decent trade into a great one.


EXACTLY !! , and if we DID aquire him.. lets trade him and Tinsley for an All-Star center ..

Rajah Brown
01-23-2008, 08:05 AM
Vinsanity = An occasionally gimpy, 31 yr old w/ 5yrs at $80 mil + and
laziness on the defensive end.

No thanks.

indygeezer
01-23-2008, 09:31 AM
My daddy used to say that when the horse is dead it's time to get off and bury him.

timid
01-23-2008, 04:06 PM
Man, some of you dudes are really trippin, I'd do this deal in a heartbeat. Yeah Vince is lazy, doesn't play defense, injury prone, blah blah......Over half of our current roster doesn't either. At least the guy can score and he's a legit star at the SG. He'd be the best player on our team, PERIOD. That includes Granger and Williams. At least get some excitement on this damn roster. We don't have anybody on the team that the opponent says, hey we gotta stop him tonight. Regardless of what you think about him, Vince is that kind've player.

Hicks
01-24-2008, 11:41 PM
Fun update:

Watching TNT before the Nets/Warriors game. I surprisingly flat and cold Magic Johnson asked to speak before Charles Barkley and said the following (paraphrasing): "Vince Carter's knees are gone. Superstar to regular player just like that." Ouch.

LG33
01-24-2008, 11:45 PM
Let's just trade O'Neal/Tins to the Heat for their pick. Then we'll get two top 5's...

Ownagedood
01-24-2008, 11:46 PM
Didn't see this posted yet, sorry if it has.

From Hoopshype:Nets and Pacers renewed talks and the new proposal would send Vince Carter, Marcus Williams and Jamaal Magloire to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal, according to the Bergen Record.

(I would do this, could take us to another level. Might be why JO isn't playing. Carter has 1 more year than O'Neal but at a much smaller salary, Magloire's deal is up after this year at 4 million. Williams is on rookie contract and could become a player)

Mods:I meant to put a question mark in the title, could you correct this?

I would FLIP if this happens.. I have always been a Carter fan.. Williams is an up and coming star, and would probably end up a starter by the end of the year for us.. DO IT IF YOU CAN BIRD!!!!

jmoney2584
01-25-2008, 01:56 AM
Let's just trade O'Neal/Tins to the Heat for their pick. Then we'll get two top 5's...

Stop teasing me...nevermind...don't...

CableKC
01-25-2008, 02:24 AM
Fun update:

Watching TNT before the Nets/Warriors game. I surprisingly flat and cold Magic Johnson asked to speak before Charles Barkley and said the following (paraphrasing): "Vince Carter's knees are gone. Superstar to regular player just like that." Ouch.
I was watching that game......Carter isn't as good as he used to be. Maybe it's a good thing that JONeal's knees acted up.

d_c
01-25-2008, 02:27 AM
I was watching that game......Carter isn't as good as he used to be. Maybe it's a good thing that JONeal's knees acted up.

Carter looked a little bit better tonight than he really is because the Warriors play an undersized backcourt and he was able to exploit that some. And even then, he was just so-so in the 2nd half.

Remember the days when the guy literally had the league in the palm of his hands? He really was something else during those first 3 seasons.

CableKC
01-25-2008, 02:29 AM
Carter looked a little bit better tonight than he really is because the Warriors play an undersized backcourt and he was able to exploit that some. And even then, he was just so-so in the 2nd half.

Remember the days when the guy literally had the league in the palm of his hands? He really was something else during those first 3 seasons.
You could say the same thing about JONeal.....

jmoney2584
01-25-2008, 02:30 AM
You could say the same thing about JONeal.....

I probably would but hypertension runs in my family and my doctor has told me to avoid stressfull activities...

ThA HoyA
01-25-2008, 04:06 PM
i would only do this if we got sean williams from them instead of Marcus williams, how bout diogu for sean williams

timid
01-25-2008, 04:44 PM
Carter looked a little bit better tonight than he really is because the Warriors play an undersized backcourt and he was able to exploit that some. And even then, he was just so-so in the 2nd half.

Remember the days when the guy literally had the league in the palm of his hands? He really was something else during those first 3 seasons.

And he still damn near looked better than anyone we have on the team not named Granger...

Kofi
01-25-2008, 08:13 PM
i would only do this if we got sean williams from them instead of Marcus williams, how bout diogu for sean williams

They'd hang up immediately. Sean Williams is looking like the steal of the draft. He's got good size, is ultra athletic, he can score, rebound, and he's a monster shot blocker. I surely do wish we could've landed him. :(

ThA HoyA
01-25-2008, 09:03 PM
U are defintely right and I'd rather have him then carter I'd even put foster in there to get him

ThA HoyA
01-25-2008, 10:22 PM
They'd hang up immediately. Sean Williams is looking like the steal of the draft. He's got good size, is ultra athletic, he can score, rebound, and he's a monster shot blocker. I surely do wish we could've landed him. :(

What pick was he?

JayRedd
01-25-2008, 10:27 PM
What pick was he?

Lucky #17.

I wish we could trade JO for Williams and Bostjan straight up. Stupid CBA. Can't really see us trading for a guy who got kicked out of college at this stage of our ongoing PR nightmare either. Plus, it's a pretty well-known fact that nothing good ever comes out of BC.

Kofi
01-25-2008, 10:52 PM
Shawne Williams went #17 in 2006
Sean Williams went #17 in 2007

Isn't that just the cutest thing you've ever seen?

LG33
01-25-2008, 11:27 PM
Lucky #17.

I wish we could trade JO for Williams and Bostjan straight up. Stupid CBA. Can't really see us trading for a guy who got kicked out of college at this stage of our ongoing PR nightmare either. Plus, it's a pretty well-known fact that nothing good ever comes out of BC.

How did I allow you to live?

JayRedd
01-26-2008, 05:39 PM
How did I allow you to live?

Shouldn't you be past this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_complex) by now?

aceace
01-26-2008, 06:32 PM
I have to think Ike is in trade talks. He was amazing in first 3 games coming off the bench. Now not playing at all. Does not make sense.

Anthem
01-26-2008, 06:44 PM
Vinsanity called the "Least Valuable Player" by Yahoo.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AqzDFQn2fTrgT_mHTtjKSR.8vLYF?slug=aw-midseasonawards012608

Kegboy
01-26-2008, 08:04 PM
Vinsanity called the "Least Valuable Player" by Yahoo.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AqzDFQn2fTrgT_mHTtjKSR.8vLYF?slug=aw-midseasonawards012608

I know he's a chemistry killer and all, but I really don't see somebody putting up 20, 5, and 5 as the LVP of the league.

Aw Heck
01-26-2008, 10:30 PM
I know he's a chemistry killer and all, but I really don't see somebody putting up 20, 5, and 5 as the LVP of the league.
Putting up 20 points a game on the Nets is easier with Jason Kidd spoon-feeding him the ball on fast breaks. It's a nice boost to his FG% too. I actually think Kidd is making Carter look better than he actually is at this point in his career.

If Carter was traded here, I would not be surprised to see his production drop significantly and for him to get "injured" a lot more. A JO-Carter trade has disaster written all over it.

EDIT: Also, from that article Anthem posted:

Executive Disaster of the Year: Isiah Thomas, New York Knicks

This is a career achievement award for Thomas. Kevin McHale has been a different disaster, but he does have a blossoming young star in Al Jefferson, No. 1 picks and cap space on the way. Odds are, he’ll do nothing with it, but at least you know Thomas has no chance with the constitution of his team.

Under his leadership, Thomas has helped make Madison Square Garden one of the nastiest, most poisonous environments in professional sports.

In Indiana, there are still front-office officials cursing Thomas for talking them into drafting Fred Jones over Tayshaun Prince. Jones will be an All-Star, Thomas told them. Rest assured, Thomas is still telling Knicks owner, Jim Dolan, that, too. Just give me three more years, Isiah must say, and you’ll see.

If that's true, I have a new reason to hate Isiah.

JayRedd
01-26-2008, 10:37 PM
Vince will be awful in two years. "Cap-crippling, old man who can't jump, doesn't drive and launches threes constantly" awful. He'll be like Cuttino Mobley is right now. Only he'll take 5-7 more shots a game, make twice as much and play in half as many games. And as an added bonus, he'll still be a pouty douchebag.

Hicks
01-26-2008, 10:47 PM
If that's true, I have a new reason to hate Isiah.

Damn. No kidding. I know we got Danny later, but 1) We could have used that pick on another need 2) That was the 2002 draft. Prince would have been EXCELLENT Ron Artest insurance.

Anthem
01-26-2008, 10:51 PM
Damn. No kidding. I know we got Danny later, but 1) We could have used that pick on another need 2) That was the 2002 draft. Prince would have been EXCELLENT Ron Artest insurance.
Plus, if the Pistons hadn't gotten him, Reggie would have gotten a ring.

!Pacers-Fan!
01-26-2008, 11:30 PM
If Bird Dont Do This Trade...Hes Definately On Drugs...

CableKC
01-27-2008, 01:53 PM
Putting up 20 points a game on the Nets is easier with Jason Kidd spoon-feeding him the ball on fast breaks. It's a nice boost to his FG% too. I actually think Kidd is making Carter look better than he actually is at this point in his career.

If Carter was traded here, I would not be surprised to see his production drop significantly and for him to get "injured" a lot more. A JO-Carter trade has disaster written all over it.
After seeing the Warriors/Nets game, Carter doesn't appear to be the same Air Canada that most of us remember. He may have some good games here and there.....but he doesn't seem to be the same player that we are all wishing he would be. I agree with what you are saying.....despite what JONeal brings to this team....I have a feeling that a JONeal for Carter deal wouldn't really make a difference for us....it would only bury us more in long-term contracts.


EDIT: Also, from that article Anthem posted:

If that's true, I have a new reason to hate Isiah.
If that is true...and someone in the Pacers FO had a brain cell that actually considered drafting Prince, then that even lowers my opinion of Zeke even more.

Kegboy
01-27-2008, 03:52 PM
The Prince talks sounds like pure hindsight to me. Did we even have him in for a workout? With Ron and Al on the roster, I don't see it being seriously considered.

Also, what "team officials" are still around from '02? Bird sacked the entire scouting department.

Anthem
01-27-2008, 05:23 PM
The Prince talks sounds like pure hindsight to me. Did we even have him in for a workout? With Ron and Al on the roster, I don't see it being seriously considered.

Also, what "team officials" are still around from '02? Bird sacked the entire scouting department.
The word after the draft was that Donnie wanted Prince. There's a "two players forever linked" thread about it, I think.

Hicks
01-27-2008, 05:49 PM
The word after the draft was that Donnie wanted Prince. There's a "two players forever linked" thread about it, I think.

The "two players forever linked" were Fred Jones and Kareem Rush, whom most predicted would be who the Pacers would take with that pick.

Anthem
01-27-2008, 06:29 PM
The "two players forever linked" were Fred Jones and Kareem Rush, whom most predicted would be who the Pacers would take with that pick.
Yep, you're right.

Will Galen
02-08-2008, 04:03 PM
BUMPING!

Because I think the Pacers are again thinking of trading JO to NJ for Carter.

Why? Because of the slip O'B make when he said "...if we do the trade." And because O'B wants a finisher as talked about in this thread.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=36797

Phildog
02-08-2008, 04:40 PM
I just don't see how that trade would do us any good unless we got the Nets pick this year with it, which seems highly unlikely.

Infinite MAN_force
02-08-2008, 09:29 PM
That happens and Im jumping head first into the fire Bird campain.

I want to give Larry Legend the benifit of the doubt, but if he blindly continues to try to "Tweak" the roster instead of trying to build this team a damn future I will **** myself.

Trading for 31 year olds with longterm contracts IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. Its not like we are a piece away from a championship roster here...