PDA

View Full Version : Knee may sideline Pacers' O'Neal



MagicRat
01-18-2008, 10:27 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-18-4pbjan18,1,5673808.story

Jermaine O'Neal hasn't fully healed from off-season knee surgery, and he could sit out awhile to recover.

The Pacers center left during the first quarter of Wednesday's win over Golden State with pain in his left knee and did not return. He was to have an MRI.

<!-- END LEAD --><!-- START REST --> "It's a difficult decision," he said. "You don't want to take a week and a half, two weeks off and be in the same position. I want to get a better diagnosis of why the knee is swelling and we'll go from there.

Pacers' O'Neal might rest aching knee

http://www.wane.com/Global/story.asp?S=7738103&nav=0RYd

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - The Indiana Pacers' Jermaine O'Neal may be out of the lineup a while because of his aching left knee.


O'Neal had offseason knee surgery, but it still hasn't fully healed. He left during the first quarter of last night's win over Golden State because of the pain and did not return. He says he wants to get a better diagnosis of why the knee is swelling before he makes a decision whether to take some more time off.


O'Neal had surgery in April 2007 after he tore cartilage in the knee. He says he's surprised the healing process has been so slow.
He already has has missed 89 games the past 3 1/2 seasons due to injuries, illnesses and suspensions. He has missed seven games this season, many because the knee has been unpredictable.

bellisimo
01-18-2008, 10:36 AM
good to hear it from Chicago first....

I do wonder though - does this mean that Ike might get some playing time again?

Unclebuck
01-18-2008, 10:37 AM
Sit him until after the all star break.

Healthy JO - the pacers are better with him

Unhealthy JO, Pacers are better without him

indygeezer
01-18-2008, 10:40 AM
Good-bye to any chance that he will be traded by the deadline...if that is what anybody was hoping for.

Doug
01-18-2008, 10:42 AM
Sit him until after the all star break.

Healthy JO - the pacers are better with him

Unhealthy JO, Pacers are better without him

Yes.

Although I can't help but feel that this is "deja vu all over".

MagicRat
01-18-2008, 10:46 AM
According to Chick McGee JO will be fully healthy on the 12th of Never......

Unclebuck
01-18-2008, 10:46 AM
Good-bye to any chance that he will be traded by the deadline...if that is what anybody was hoping for.

I never thought that was a real possibility. Same with Tinsley. Better chance that Ike and Daniels might be traded. Although depending on what Tinsley does from this point, the Pacers might just look to unload him using Ike and Marquis as bait - we'll throw in David as well

Oneal07
01-18-2008, 10:47 AM
You wonder if his knee was stressed out cause of Sundays game. Man played like it was a playoff game

31andonly
01-18-2008, 10:50 AM
Sit him until after the all star break.

Healthy JO - the pacers are better with him

Unhealthy JO, Pacers are better without him

That's true and that says it all!

JayRedd
01-18-2008, 10:54 AM
Sounds about right.

Will Galen
01-18-2008, 11:35 AM
He says he wants to get a better diagnosis of why the knee is swelling before he makes a decision whether to take some more time off.
I read a month or so ago that other players told JO that it would be mid season before he was healthy again, and it was just something he would have to play though. He's been doing that, but now it's mid season, so he wants another opinion. If he gets reassured, he could play the next game.

indygeezer
01-18-2008, 11:36 AM
I read a month or so ago that other players told JO that it would be mid season before he was healthy again, and it was just something he would have to play though. He's been doing that, but now it's mid season, so he wants another opinion. If he gets reassured, he could play the next game.


Really? That's interesting, I don't remember seeing that.

LoneGranger33
01-18-2008, 11:43 AM
According to Chick McGee JO will be fully healthy on the 12th of Never......

I believe the Pacers organization is willing to wait.

Will Galen
01-18-2008, 12:54 PM
Really? That's interesting, I don't remember seeing that.

Hard telling where I read that since I read so many sites. I think it was the Star, or Pacers.com though.

BobbyMac
01-18-2008, 01:12 PM
I read a month or so ago that other players told JO that it would be mid season before he was healthy again, and it was just something he would have to play though. He's been doing that, but now it's mid season, so he wants another opinion. If he gets reassured, he could play the next game.


I remember seeing that as well....sure hope he can get is strightened out, when he's healthy is one of the best.

Naptown_Seth
01-18-2008, 01:24 PM
Sit him until after the all star break.

Healthy JO - the pacers are better with him

Unhealthy JO, Pacers are better without him
Unfortunately agreed. Seems like his TOs have even gone up and I wonder if some of that was the knee distracting him.

BoomBaby33
01-18-2008, 01:25 PM
Jonathon Bender Part 2. :rolleyes:

Or Scott Haskin Part 3 for you diehards out there. :eek:

Or Clark Kellogg Part 4. :(

Chronic knee injuries will end his career. I said it before and I'll say it again, he will (is) be a shell of his former self in 1-2 years. We missed out on our chances to get rid of him last summer. And the Pacers are paying him $20M a year for the next 2 years - yeah rah.

Oh well, he makes a pretty good cheer leader.

ABADays
01-18-2008, 01:28 PM
Shocking, just shocking. How long did it take Bender to heal?

BoomBaby33
01-18-2008, 01:30 PM
Shocking, just shocking. How long did it take Bender to heal?

Till the 12th of Never .... :D :rolleyes:

BobbyMac
01-18-2008, 01:31 PM
You know, if the Star was a bit less attack oriented they might get informaion like this.

Major Cold
01-18-2008, 01:38 PM
This is a little odd that Pacers.com did not report this.

JayRedd
01-18-2008, 01:45 PM
Hard telling where I read that since I read so many sites.

Maybe when you were at 2 girls 1 cup?


Till the 12th of Never .... :D :rolleyes:

I heard Nevuary 7th.

Unclebuck
01-18-2008, 02:01 PM
JO's body just isn't made to withstand the rigors of the NBA. Sad but true. And yet I remember a somewhat lengthy and contencious discussion two years ago on pacers digest about whether JO was injury prone

d_c
01-18-2008, 02:14 PM
JO's body just isn't made to withstand the rigors of the NBA. Sad but true. And yet I remember a somewhat lengthy and contencious discussion two years ago on pacers digest about whether JO was injury prone

There was a stretch there where he played 81, 72, 77 and 78 games. Then he just kind of fell off.

Baron Davis barely missed any games his first view years of his career. Then he got injured and beat up. Right now, he's in better shape and has held up about as well as you can expect out of a guy with his prior injury history.

Thing is, Baron is a PG so he can make adjustments in his game to avoid the physical grind/banging that takes a toll on the body. Jermaine is a big guy and he's pretty much required to play inside for at least 50% of the time (big guys have to do that defensively everytime down the floor).

It's a tough league. 82 games a year plus pre-season and playoffs. Big guys just pounding eachother and running up and down a hardwood floor. It takes a toll. Most amazing thing about Michael Jordan was his ability as a relatively small guy (in the grand scheme of things compared to Magic, Bird, Wilt, etc..) to get fouled and get to the line, yet still physically hold up after all that pounding. Especially amazing since they didn't have the handchecking/perimeter defense restrictions back then that they do now.

CableKC
01-18-2008, 02:21 PM
JONeal's trade value just continues to plummet.

I really hope that JONeal doesn't return until the outstanding Pacer medical / coaching staff deems him fit to return.

If he returns too early and continues to play with a noticeable injury.....his trade value would drop even more. I could totally see him remain a Pacer until the 2008/2009 trade deadline cuz TPTB won't trade him during the offseason while his trade value is hovering at the lowest point in his career.

Bball
01-18-2008, 03:46 PM
The Pacers should've traded JO at least 2 seasons ago. They certainly should've traded him this summer for whatever the best offer turned out to be (assuming there was a 'best offer'). Trying to strongarm LA was a mistake... I guess you can try it but you have to be willing to be realistic and come off of it.

Trading partners for JO will be few and far between.

Who didn't see this coming?

And didn't JO proclaim this was the best he'd felt in years entering training camp?

-Bball

jeffg-body
01-18-2008, 03:46 PM
I gotta feel for JO. Injuries are not a behavioral issue, they are a combination of bad luck, fundamental errors(putting yourself in an awkward position), hard playing, and usually the other person's effort.

Unclebuck
01-18-2008, 03:49 PM
The Pacers should've traded JO at least 2 seasons ago. They certainly should've traded him this summer for whatever the best offer turned out to be (assuming there was a 'best offer'). Trying to strongarm LA was a mistake... I guess you can try it but you have to be willing to be realistic and come off of it.

Trading partners for JO will be few and far between.

Who didn't see this coming?

And didn't JO proclaim this was the best he'd felt in years entering training camp?

-Bball

Yeah the summer of '06, he should have been traded. Some of us were calling for it based solely on him being injury prone.

mb221
01-18-2008, 04:13 PM
I remember reading a quote from JO where he stated that it was the first time in a long time that he had NO PAIN in his knee. What happened to that?

fwpacerfan
01-18-2008, 04:17 PM
I say sit him if he's not 100%. The team is playing better without him right now. I attribute that to his health at this point, but I'm not so sure that his style is going to fit 100% into O'Brien's system. When he's in the offense gets stagnant, which spells disaster when your offense is predicated on ball movement and taking open shots.

Sollozzo
01-18-2008, 06:06 PM
Some guys have bodies that can hold up year in and year out. They are the Karl Malone's of the world. Malone won an MVP when he was 35. Some guys have bodies that begin to break down at a fairly young age. They are the Chris Webbers.

KG is like Malone. The most games he's ever missed in a season is 6. He is steel and will continue to play year in and year out for years to come.

JO is unfortunately a Chris Webber. There just always something that seems to be wrong with him. He is a very good player, as was Webber, but his body can never hold up for a long time without breaking down. It's unfortunate for him, and it's unfortunate for the Pacers who are paying him so much money.

This should have been easy to see the past few years. And I think most got the vibe that this past summer was the last chance to trade JO and get something halfway decent in return. And I, like others, think that the Pacers were too stubborn. If it ever comes out that the Lakers offered Bynum and the Pacers refused, that will be one of the worst blunders in the history of the NBA. Hopefully Bynum was ever offered. It's bad enough to think they probably refused a deal for Odom and fillers.

If the Pacers management really hoped to ever get Bynum and Odom, then they are far dumber than I thought.

Hicks
01-18-2008, 06:11 PM
Sucks for JO, but it sucks for everyone else involved, too: The coach, the team, the GM, the CEO, the fans. The question on my mind: Will being a Pacers fan stop sucking soon?

MyFavMartin
01-18-2008, 06:21 PM
Sucks for JO, but it sucks for everyone else involved, too: The coach, the team, the GM, the CEO, the fans. The question on my mind: Will being a Pacers fan stop sucking soon?

Well, God might not be a Pacers fan....

indygeezer
01-18-2008, 06:35 PM
Well, God might not be a Pacers fan....


I hated that commercial the first time I ever saw it. I always thought it was nothing but a bad omen. It showed the season before the brawl and the season of the brawl.

Bad Karma....bad karma

aero
01-18-2008, 06:58 PM
Id bench him until after the All-Star break as well. It just seems that he cant stay healthy at all....

CableKC
01-18-2008, 07:30 PM
The Pacers should've traded JO at least 2 seasons ago. They certainly should've traded him this summer for whatever the best offer turned out to be (assuming there was a 'best offer'). Trying to strongarm LA was a mistake... I guess you can try it but you have to be willing to be realistic and come off of it.

Trading partners for JO will be few and far between.

Who didn't see this coming?
Everyone but TPTB. I think they put on rose-colored sunglasses whenever they look at the trade value of their players.


And didn't JO proclaim this was the best he'd felt in years entering training camp?
Exactly......that's what I thought.

CableKC
01-18-2008, 07:40 PM
Id bench him until after the All-Star break as well. It just seems that he cant stay healthy at all....
If it's up to the Pacers crack medical team to evaluate when he will be ready......he'll be playing next week :banghead:.

Anyone have a "before/after" on when JONeal will return?

I am betting on February 1st. That's a good 2 weeks to recover and reduce whatever swelling that he has and a full 7 games to showcase that his knee is working ( or more specifically hasn't fallen off ) before the All-Star game on Feb 17th when all the GMs meet up.

aero
01-18-2008, 08:15 PM
If it's up to the Pacers crack medical team to evaluate when he will be ready......he'll be playing next week :banghead:.

yeah, when i think of the pacers medical team i think of the coach from the movie Varsity Blues asking the team doctor "can he play?!" when the guy broke his leg really bad :blush:

BlueNGold
01-18-2008, 08:17 PM
Ready for the truth?

One of two things are likely to happen now.

1) JO never really recovers fully, continues to return and get injured, and fades away. IOW, he just continues the descent of the last few years.

2) JO recovers in a year or two, just in time to leave the Pacers. BTW, I have no doubt he does not like playing for Bird. Instead, you will see him in New York or LA.

So, considering the options, I would trade him for a bag of chips if we could get a salary cut. To be sure, Larry Bird will be offered only trash for our "superstar".

Lord Helmet
01-18-2008, 08:18 PM
Well, God might not be a Pacers fan....
How did those commercials go again?

Eindar
01-18-2008, 08:47 PM
I remember reading a quote from JO where he stated that it was the first time in a long time that he had NO PAIN in his knee. What happened to that?

Probably the same thing that happened to Bender's knees every year between "Y'all gonna see it" and "Done for the season". I think that these knee issues are such that if you're not pounding on it every day, it doesn't hurt too bad, but once you start subjecting it to 20+ minutes per game, it starts bothering you.

NuffSaid
01-18-2008, 09:36 PM
I've felt since about a month into the season that JO should have had another othorscope done on his knee. I think his problem may very well be related to the surgery he had that should have corrected the problem in the first place. Not saying it was botched, but maybe there was something more going on in his knee that wasn't caught the first time, or maybe it's scare tissue or some fragment that just hasn't been noticed yet.

Okay, so I'm reaching. Nonetheless, the body (joints) just doesn't swell up for nothing. Glad to read he's getting another MRI. Maybe this time the doc's will get to the bottom of this problem. I'd rather see a JO who can be 100% each game than this play 5 games, sit 10 days BS.

Cobol Sam
01-18-2008, 11:18 PM
Probably the same thing that happened to Bender's knees every year between "Y'all gonna see it" and "Done for the season". I think that these knee issues are such that if you're not pounding on it every day, it doesn't hurt too bad, but once you start subjecting it to 20+ minutes per game, it starts bothering you.

What is this magical reasoning you have subjected us to? :bowdown:

Allahu Eindar

ABADays
01-18-2008, 11:22 PM
What is this magical reasoning you have subjected us to? :bowdown:

Allahu Eindar

New avatar. Couldn't find her Wanted poster huh?

Cobol Sam
01-18-2008, 11:23 PM
New avatar. Couldn't find her Wanted poster huh?

I gotta keep it fresh... Bjork is getting up there in years. Plus harps are sexy.

clownskull
01-19-2008, 03:18 AM
my apologies if this seems negative and stuff but..........
this is the same old s... that has been going on for what- the last 3 seasons?
jermaine's knees will never i repeat NEVER be anywhere near 100% ever again. it was too late for that a long time ago. this is absolutely nothing new to me. this little game of playing jo for a few games and then he falls apart again will probably continue for the rest of this season and for the rest of his time here. he is paying the price for playing the game of not too injured to jog up and down the court but, too injured to be helpful. i think this has done irreversible damage and a few weeks rest will only make the situation APPEAR to be fixed but, i can all but guarantee the knees will be bugging him again and again and again.

for the supporters of jo, i am not accusing him of being a wuss or a bum or anything like it- quite the opposite actually. but, if any of you think he can get healthy again well, i think you are in for some disappointment. this game has been played for several years now and i don't see it changing. this is what we can expect.
i'm just getting tired of the "just wait til jo gets healthy" because it ain't gonna happen. this is what happens when you try to play through pain and injuries. sure it sounds cool and all to say stuff like "suck it up and tough it out" "real players play through pain etc." and all that stuff but, this is what usually happens when you do just that. your body is permenantly screwed up and no 2 week rest is going to fix it. if he is still with the team next season and says he feels great after a summer of rest... just wait until about 20 games or so until he needs to rest another sore knee and we can start up the just wait til stuff all over again.

Peck
01-19-2008, 03:51 AM
Being the resident Jermaine hater please allow me to make a couple of observations.

1. To compare Jermaine O'Neal to Jon Bender is a vast disservice to Jermaine. Although I do not like his game and have wanted him gone for quite a long time I have never once questioned his heart for playing the game.

I honestly believe that if it were at all possible for J.O. to play he would and probably has done bodily damage to himself for playing before he was truely ready to play. I commend him for that part because it does show spirit and a fighting mentality.

2. This part is going to come across as more of my "hate talk" as I was told by a poster on here about J.O. but believe it or not that is not my intention.

For the sake of the team J.O. needs to sit and probably sit for most of the season, if not take off the entire year to heal.

Having J.O. go in and out of the lineup kills any chance of chemistry developing with the rest of the team. Listen to this weeks coach's show and hear how he states that J.O. rarely practices and therefor other players development is being hampered by this.

If J.O. were treated like any other player then it wouldn't be a big deal. But for whatever reason he gets special treatment (were not going to argue over if this is right or wrong here I'm just stating it as part of my observations) and does live by the rules that O'Brien imposes on everybody else. He is immeiatley placed in the starting lineup whenever he returns no matter if the team is doing great or sucks. He is given massive min. no matter what results he is getting after a few games back.

This deeply impacts everybody else.

Now if he were able stay on the floor the rest of the season it would not be as big of a deal. But the fact that he will set for 5 games come back for 8 games then sit for 3 games then come back for.... well you get the picture, tears the team apart in both play and overall chemistry.

BTW, none of the above was meant to say that J.O. should sit or whatever. I just think that it would be better for a long term sabatical as opposed to hoping in and out of the lineup whenever.

indygeezer
01-19-2008, 07:54 AM
Then the obvious strategy for JO (since he is virtually untradable) is to rest him for x period of long time and then use him off the bench when he comes back. Bite the bullet and pay him his starters salary but give him a much reduced role. Save his knees as much as possible so he can be effective while he is in there and then cut bait when his contract expires. Give him a gold watch and let him "retire" a Pacer.
Sorry but if he can't put in starter minutes or practice with the team you have got to limit his participation.

Will Galen
01-19-2008, 10:20 AM
From Pacers.com
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/preview_080119.html

The Pacers may be without big man Jermaine O'Neal, who missed practices Thursday and Friday after playing just 9 minutes in Wednesday's 125-117 victory over Golden State with swelling in his left knee. He's listed as doubtful. Jamaal Tinsley is expected back in the lineup after missing Wednesday's game.

O'Neal sat out five games in a row in late November with the same problem and it was hoped that extended absence would allow the knee to heal for the long term. It hasn't worked out that way.

"My understanding of the situation is that if we were to sit him out for an extended period of time during this season, when he came back he'd be in the same situation as he is right now you don't know if he'd be able to practice, you don't know if he'd be able to play back-to-back games," O'Brien said. "So somebody that has more knowledge medically than I do would have to tell me there'd be a benefit to sit him out (for an extended period) and right now I'm told there is not."
---------------



Like I said earlier, other Players that have gone though the same surgery as JO have told him he wouldn't be completely healthy until mid year. It's mid year so they are looking at it again. If it's just a case of JO being a slow healer, then the Pacers and JO will continue the same pattern. He'll play when he can. Maybe tonight if he practices today.

indygeezer
01-19-2008, 10:25 AM
Either he came back too soon or
he needs to redo the surgery or
he needs to sit the rest of the year and come back next season or
he'll never be right again and my previous idea of benching him is in order or
he goes Bender and takes medical retirement.

(perhaps a minor scope job could clean up whatever needs cleaning)

BoomBaby33
01-19-2008, 10:40 AM
Maybe when you were at 2 girls 1 cup?



I heard Nevuary 7th.

Actually, I got sources telling me Februneverary 31st.

Naptown_Seth
01-19-2008, 12:47 PM
Wait a second on "injury prone".

JO got his arm ripped back to create that major injury. JO had his knee go the WRONG WAY and still played in that game/series.

Something now has obviously happened and it's lingering badly. Maybe he won't get over it. But let's not mix situations here, the guy WAS tough previously. He had a couple of very legit moments, and suddenly he just can't get right.


BTW, 1996 called and wants to remind most of you that you were calling for Smits to be dumped when it was "clear" his foot problem would never be right again.

Geezer is right to say that maybe someone needs to address this more seriously and see if it can't be truly resolved. If he's gotta go out of the season to be great next year then why wouldn't you do it?

Look, personally if I had surgery to solve a painful injury and afterward I still had that pain, I'd want my money back. That is unless I wasn't following the rehab portion correctly or I REINJURED it. But then if I did that I'd also get it RE-REPAIRED.

indygeezer
01-19-2008, 01:20 PM
Wait a second on "injury prone".

JO got his arm ripped back to create that major injury. JO had his knee go the WRONG WAY and still played in that game/series.

Something now has obviously happened and it's lingering badly. Maybe he won't get over it. But let's not mix situations here, the guy WAS tough previously. He had a couple of very legit moments, and suddenly he just can't get right.


BTW, 1996 called and wants to remind most of you that you were calling for Smits to be dumped when it was "clear" his foot problem would never be right again.

Geezer is right to say that maybe someone needs to address this more seriously and see if it can't be truly resolved. If he's gotta go out of the season to be great next year then why wouldn't you do it?
Look, personally if I had surgery to solve a painful injury and afterward I still had that pain, I'd want my money back. That is unless I wasn't following the rehab portion correctly or I REINJURED it. But then if I did that I'd also get it RE-REPAIRED.


Too bad there's not another Tim Duncan waiting to be drafted...sit DR and pick up TD====Sit JO and nah, Pacers are never that lucky.

BlueNGold
01-19-2008, 01:55 PM
The Rik Smits comparison is not good because that team was a contender and was getting better. This one is wondering off into nothingness. The point is, JO's presence or absence simply doesn't matter that much if you care about contending. If the team were the same one from a few years ago with Artest, Reggie, etc., I would certainly support hanging onto JO to make "the run". But there ain't no run to make.

Rik didn't make 20 million a year and put a major bind on the finances. Also, Rik didn't have a body that fell apart at every joint. Smits had a foot problem that came and went. Yes, it was frustrating, but it made sense to patch the guy up for the playoffs.

Bball
01-19-2008, 02:00 PM
The Rik Smits comparison is not good because that team was a contender and was getting better. This one is wondering off into nothingness. The point is, JO's presence or absence simply doesn't matter that much if you care about contending. If the team were the same one from a few years ago with Artest, Reggie, etc., I would certainly support hanging onto JO to make "the run". But there ain't no run to make.

Rik didn't make 20 million a year and put a major bind on the finances. Also, Rik didn't have a body that fell apart at every joint. Smits had a foot problem that came and went. Yes, it was frustrating, but it made sense to patch the guy up for the playoffs.

Rik wasn't the centerpiece and we also had the pieces to play without Rik and actually improve our defense considerably.

-Bball

BlueNGold
01-19-2008, 06:32 PM
Rik wasn't the centerpiece and we also had the pieces to play without Rik and actually improve our defense considerably.

-Bball

Yes, defense improved with Smits off the floor. Dale Davis was more than capable of moving over to the center position. In some ways that did make Smits less important, but he was still clearly the #2 option on offense. He put a ton of pressure on the other team's defense with his excellent mid range game. He was crucial at playoff time when baskets were more difficult to convert.

As Smits' foot problems became an issue, he was rested more often and wheeled out for the playoffs. Then, he had Bird's doc work on his feet and he saw some improvement that lasted awhile.

In any event, that team had the luxury of being able to rest him for the playoffs (something not relevant to resting JO). That was possible not only due to the depth and talent level, but because of the maturity, intelligence and unselfishness of that particular team...something recent Pacer squads have been sorely lacking.