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View Full Version : Thoughts on Diener last night...



Midwest Hoops
01-17-2008, 09:57 AM
Just wanted to comment a bit on Diener's performance last night. It was clear that his ankle was hurting badly. When he was walking between plays and coming to the bench he was limping noticably. He had zero lift on his shot and had some trouble cutting. The play early when he got stripped on the spin by CJ Watson was a perfect example of his not having the quicks last night to complete a move.
However, he ran the team very well. The spacing is much better w/ Diener on the floor and he pushes the tempo as well as many top points and much better then any point on the Pacers. It is not a coincidence that the ball gets moving much better w/ Diener at the point. Everyone makes the extra pass w/ him at the point and the ball very seldom stagnates. I thought that was a very gutty performance last night by everyone but especially Diener.

Unclebuck
01-17-2008, 10:05 AM
I agree with you 100%.

Most of all I like the intangibles he brings to the court and the team. He is a leader (as all point guards are, whether for good or bad) but I think Diener is a good leader. He is a very funny guy who often has the players on the bench cracking up - his teammates seem to like him, they seem to respond to him. I also really like his toughness, both physically and mentally.

One thing I enjoy seeing is him willingly give the ball up at any time. He is constantly, passing the ball, he doesn't seem intent on making the asisting pass, but rather, just pasing the ball, knowing that passing is contagious.

OB mentioned a play between Dien and jeff in the 4th quarter where there was a series of 3 or 4 give and goes, in a situation where there wasn't a good shot, but through the course of the give and goes, a good shot opened up.

I liked Diener when I saw him in the preseason and I like him more now. His teammates seem to like him, the fans seem to like him - those type of things can help make up for any physical short comings

Major Cold
01-17-2008, 10:15 AM
I hope he comes into his own. I look at Diener as a rookie. The playing time he had in Orlando did not give him significant experience. That and the fact that Orlando can not develop guards. I believe by the end of the season we should judge the Diener pickup.

Speed
01-17-2008, 10:19 AM
I think he will get better with the more time he gets too. Obie, I think, has put in a D that somewhat can compensate for him not being able to to guard physcial PGs.

So I agree he has the intangibles and he plays the right way, his whole knock has been being too small to compete defensively, if you can continue to mask that its a really nice fit.

Phildog
01-17-2008, 10:23 AM
Anyone see on the telecast after Baron Davis fouled Granger on a 3, Deiner went up to him, made a comment, and slapped him on the *** and Baron Davis slapped Diener accross the chest and didnt' even acknowledge him?

They showed a replay of it on the telecast and the announcers were deathly quiet during the replay.

Unclebuck
01-17-2008, 10:53 AM
I think he will get better with the more time he gets too. Obie, I think, has put in a D that somewhat can compensate for him not being able to to guard physcial PGs.




Yeah, like putting him on Barnes. (when the Warriors went big in the backcourt, instead of putting Diener on Baron, the pacers put him on Barnes. Smnart move by the coahcing staff, even though Matt barnes scored a few times. .

Naptown_Seth
01-17-2008, 11:16 AM
Last week I made those comments about Diener's limits (one arm passing, handles to create better passing situations). Since then I admitted that was a miss on my part, but even since saying that he's been even more impressive.

He's still the "spunky role player" type of PG, but he is pretty fast, keeps his dribble low, and honestly seems mostly to lack the ability to "make good" on some pretty nice efforts.

Last night was a prime example as he would make move to get free closer to the rim but would then miss shots, sometimes fairly badly. Or he would beat someone, go to make a great pass and just miss it.

So to me right now he's like a pretty solid PG that's just 90% there. If he could shore up his ability to finish things off more consistently you could basically run with him as long as you had stars at other spots.

I'm not sold on his defense as starter level, but his engine running 100% the entire game sure helps.

Owens has a long way to go, but TD has shown enough to gimp the team along without Tins if TPTB could make some type of move.


Anyone see on the telecast after Baron Davis fouled Granger on a 3, Deiner went up to him, made a comment, and slapped him on the *** and Baron Davis slapped Diener accross the chest and didnt' even acknowledge him?

They showed a replay of it on the telecast and the announcers were deathly quiet during the replay.
Yeah, I wanted to hear more about it and obviously the director thought it was odd enough to show again and probably did want them to comment on it. It sure looked like TD was being friendly and Davis wasn't in the mood. To me if the refs saw that it would have been a tech. Maybe someone discussed it elsewhere on the forum. It seemed to be way more than nothing.

DisapointedPacerFan
01-17-2008, 12:04 PM
He did real good last night backuping up Andre even while he was limping. Get him some rest, that would be best for him (obviously). I kinda wish he would get more playing time from JOB.

BillS
01-17-2008, 12:09 PM
I think Diener's continuous movement is part of why GS ran out of steam toward the end. They spent the entire game running hard both down and across court covering up our guys any time they got the ball. I am convinced that we were able to win because we finally wore them down to human speed; I think much of the credit for that goes to Diener, who added a level of movement we didn't have early in the game.

andreialta
01-17-2008, 01:47 PM
I think Diener is a good PG.. He is Fast, quick, has that three point threat, and can driblle good.

how ever, i still question his decision making. quite so often last night with a chance to take the lead, he made some bad plays that result to nothing.

I think if Travis can just slow the game down for him, he is a good pg, cuz i think he has been playing PG his whole life, unlike Owens, who i think is an undersized 2 guard.

I like Travis's ability to drive the ball almost everytime with his quick 1st step, i just want him to be in control sometimes, when he is out of control i get scared.

he needs to watch some more game tapes. i think, but he is a pretty good back up right now

CableKC
01-17-2008, 01:51 PM
The only aspect of his game that I don't like is that he has a tendency to lose the ball whenever he is running at full-speed.

I'm not sure if he just over-dribbles the ball or he is just moving too fast....but I have seen the last 3 games where he has somehow coughed it up when he is simply trying to hard to get ahead of the other player.

I like that he tries to get into the small openings between players that his tiny little body can get into....but he sometimes loses the ball when he does that.

naptownmenace
01-17-2008, 01:56 PM
I've been saying since early in the season that Diener is the fastest PG on the team and when you compare his and Owen's speed, it's like comparing Mark Jackson to Monta Ellis.

I couldn't believe how slow Owens looked at the start of the game. It wasn't until Diener came in and picked up the tempo that the Pacers started to get back into the game.

Speed at the PG position is so important in today's NBA and if he could just start hitting his shots with more consistency, I think he could be good enough to be a starter in the NBA.

I agree with whoever said that this almost seems like his rookie or second season. It's possible he could get better as he gets used to playing with the starters more and against quality NBA opponents.

Doddage
01-17-2008, 02:08 PM
I'm so glad that we've decided to end the project of Quis at PG and we're actually going with our real PGs. I think the coaching staff realized that Quis is primarily effective at SG/SF and he's better off receiving the ball from the playmaker than being the one making the plays.

I like what I'm seeing from Diener. He went through a pretty tough stretch there where he was buried in the bench and racked up the DNP's, but he toughed it out and now he's getting PT. You can tell he tries hard each night despite turnovers... I think with time and minutes, he'll make a comparable if not greater impact than Udrih has made in Sacto.

Mr. Pink
01-17-2008, 03:16 PM
Travis was a joy to watch last night. He made a lot of lil mistakes, but I feel like he could come into his own. Even with the ankle injury, and the hobbling...he still was able to get into the lane. Granted it sometimes turned into a short fadeaway jumper or a sloppy pass that got picked, he was still a lot of fun to watch. He showed some really good flashes of becoming a decent PG. He kinda looked like Jason Williams without all the talent. I really was glad he played a lot. If he spent the offseason and really worked hard on his shot and playmaking, he would become a good player for the Pacers. SOO GLAD WE WON!

Unclebuck
01-17-2008, 03:36 PM
Has everyone noticed how Diener is trying to change his look. He's letting his hair grow long, and now he is going with a little stubble on his face. Now he looks like he might be 19 years old instead of looking like he was 13 at the beginning of the season.

On a more serious note, I do wonder how he would hold up physically to getting regular minutes every game.

avoidingtheclowns
01-17-2008, 03:55 PM
Has everyone noticed how Diener is trying to change his look. He's letting his hair grow long, and now he is going with a little stubble on his face. Now he looks like he might be 19 years old instead of looking like he was 13 at the beginning of the season.

On a more serious note, I do wonder how he would hold up physically to getting regular minutes every game.

he should have fresh enough legs because he certainly wasn't over-worked in orlando

andreialta
01-17-2008, 04:06 PM
Diener can play... just indecisions that gets him introuble

and that comes with maturity so arghhh

Conflict
01-17-2008, 04:14 PM
Anyone see on the telecast after Baron Davis fouled Granger on a 3, Deiner went up to him, made a comment, and slapped him on the *** and Baron Davis slapped Diener accross the chest and didnt' even acknowledge him?

They showed a replay of it on the telecast and the announcers were deathly quiet during the replay.

Diener did it with purpose, I loved it, didn't know he had that kind of confidence. Think he shot the ball a little bit too much with the injury he had, but I liked his play overall!

Hicks
01-17-2008, 04:51 PM
I like Diener and I'm glad he'll be around for a couple years. Hopefully his body can take extended (20+) minutes over the course of an NBA season.

indygeezer
01-17-2008, 04:57 PM
Diener did it with purpose, I loved it, didn't know he had that kind of confidence. Think he shot the ball a little bit too much with the injury he had, but I liked his play overall!

Yes he did, and Baron wasn't buying into his boyish charm one little bit.

Young
01-17-2008, 05:06 PM
I like what Diener has given the Pacers so far.

What I like most about Travis is the way he runs the team. I love how he pushes the tempo. Love it. The ball moves around well too. I'd say we have better ballmovement with Travis at the point than we do with Jamaal.

I'm hoping that Travis can get some consistant playing time. Maybe his shooting % and defense improve with more playing time.

He will never be a great defender. I just hope he can raise his defensive level to a respectable level because he does some really good things on the other end of the court he deserves to be out there.

slyder
01-17-2008, 06:09 PM
i'm glad to see travis getting some credit. i was beginning to think i was the only one on here who liked his play.

simply put, the tempo he pushes is (i think) what JOB has in mind for the team. and the ball movement/spacing/movement without the ball is just SO MUCH BETTER with him.

he's a shooter, too. like any of them, he has slumps,
but i think he is really solid.

i would like to see us acquire ANOTHER PG with these characteristics. and i think indiana bball fans would love this style. so i'm optimistic.

CableKC
01-17-2008, 06:27 PM
He will never be a great defender. I just hope he can raise his defensive level to a respectable level because he does some really good things on the other end of the court he deserves to be out there.
This is one of the few problems that I think we will see with Diener. Yesterday, for whatever reason....Diener was guarding Matt Barnes which usually resulted in a quick feed to Barnes and a quick score by him. This happened 2 or 3 times in the game and something that I think that teams may likely exploit.

Matchups are going to be a problem for Diener simply cuz he's going to be too short where most players will simply shoot over him.

Naptown_Seth
01-19-2008, 12:29 PM
Has everyone noticed how Diener is trying to change his look. He's letting his hair grow long, and now he is going with a little stubble on his face. Now he looks like he might be 19 years old instead of looking like he was 13 at the beginning of the season.
From the "Game Thread 39"...

Two days ago I ripped on Ballboy a little bit, not that I didn't think he could be an okay backup at times, but this is still putting it in my face. Props to the kid... and his ballboy attempt to grow a fake ID beard.
;)

It's amazing how dramatically he's changed my opinion on him in about 2 weeks time. Maybe he just needed to find his confidence with this group, perhaps Tins being out for certain helped with that. Something seems to have clicked for him with this roster.

kester99
01-19-2008, 02:19 PM
Anyone see on the telecast after Baron Davis fouled Granger on a 3, Deiner went up to him, made a comment, and slapped him on the *** and Baron Davis slapped Diener accross the chest and didnt' even acknowledge him?

They showed a replay of it on the telecast and the announcers were deathly quiet during the replay.

That surprised the heck out of me. I definitely saw it as gamesmanship. Travis was getting in Baron's head. Good stuff.