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View Full Version : ESPN: Should the Lakers Trade For Jermaine O'Neal?



kept
01-17-2008, 06:02 AM
There is a new video on the Pacer's ESPN Team Site (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=ind), It's entitled "Should the Lakers trade for Jermaine O'Neal". I did a little bit of research and it's actually a segent from ESPN Shootaround (http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3198763&categoryId=2459788&n8pe6c=2). It's essentually Jalen Rose and Jamal Mashburn talking about this Indiana-Los Angeles trade:

Lakers GET:

F/C Jermaine O'NealPacers GET:

F Lamar Odom
G Jordan Farmar
G Sasha VujacicI thought it was an interesting discussion. What are your thoughts?

Bball
01-17-2008, 06:10 AM
Any time I hear "Should the Pacers trade JO for...." I say "yes" before they can finish their sentence.

We're better without him on several levels. I don't even think he really adds to the defense like some of you seem to think. He's slow on both sides of the court. He can kind of let the action come to him on the defensive side so he looks a little better there, but his slowness also means his man can beat him or a rotation gets him out of position.

But I can't imagine the Lakers being interested in him now.

They can have Tinsley too...

-Bball

Eindar
01-17-2008, 06:49 AM
I think this trade is ultimately better for both teams if Javaris Crittenton is used instead of Farmar. For us, he's more talented, and can play both guard positions. For LA, if they make this trade, they're looking to win a ring NOW, not three seasons from now, and Farmar is a much better backup point for the this season and next than Crittenton.

As constructed, I grudgingly do it, unless Vujacic has a horrible contract I'm not aware of. If Critt is in there, I'd do it and be pretty happy about it.

tdubb03
01-17-2008, 07:30 AM
Seems like Mash and Rose have a pretty accurate take on it.

Major Cold
01-17-2008, 09:13 AM
I agree with them 100%.

indygeezer
01-17-2008, 09:22 AM
Yes, the Lakers SHOULD trade for JO and Chicago should trade for Tinsley and Detroit should trade for Murphy and .............

because all those guys owe US.

LA for the foul Shaq laid on Travis Best

Chicago for the way Phil Jackson pissed and moaned about Mark Jackson

and Detroit because they exist.

BoomBaby33
01-17-2008, 09:59 AM
Yes, the Lakers SHOULD trade for JO and Chicago should trade for Tinsley and Detroit should trade for Murphy and .............

because all those guys owe US.

LA for the foul Shaq laid on Travis Best

Chicago for the way Phil Jackson pissed and moaned about Mark Jackson

and Detroit because they exist.

What about New York?

LJ 4 point play, Spike Lee, Ewing getting 4 steps everytime he touched the ball, etc... .

eh ... never mind, they dont have anyone I want. Maybe Jamal Crawford.

BoomBaby33
01-17-2008, 10:01 AM
There is a new video on the Pacer's ESPN Team Site (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=ind), It's entitled "Should the Lakers trade for Jermaine O'Neal". I did a little bit of research and it's actually a segent from ESPN Shootaround (http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3198763&categoryId=2459788&n8pe6c=2). It's essentually Jalen Rose and Jamal Mashburn talking about this Indiana-Los Angeles trade:

Lakers GET:

F/C Jermaine O'NealPacers GET:

F Lamar Odom
G Jordan Farmar
G Sasha VujacicI thought it was an interesting discussion. What are your thoughts?

Make it happen. NOW! I like it, as someone else said, but they can have Tinsley too.

2Cleva
01-17-2008, 10:50 AM
From what I understand, LA would deal for O'Neal but only offering players like Kwame Brown and Radmanovic. They wouldn't give Odom or Farmar for him at this point.

FlavaDave
01-17-2008, 11:35 AM
From what I understand, LA would deal for O'Neal but only offering players like Kwame Brown and Radmanovic. They wouldn't give Odom or Farmar for him at this point.


O'Neal would replace Odom, and Fisher and Critt would cover for Farmar. It's possible.

Unclebuck
01-17-2008, 11:54 AM
If we can get Odom and Farmar, we should jump at that trade. Not sure why the Lakers would do it though.

Naptown_Seth
01-17-2008, 12:29 PM
It is funny though that they were rolling with Bynum and in very JO fashion he got seriously injured, suddenly creating that need again.

I don't know why they'd move Odom and Farmar though if they are trading to "win now".

Healthy JO I'm actually happy to keep here, even with this offer. And why would someone trade for injured JO? Unfortunately even though I stood firmly in the "he's not broken down" camp a few months ago, it's hard not to wonder now. :(

I hate how fans are so easily dismiss him. JO has been one of the great Pacer players, he wasn't always struggling like this.

Dude shot a 1 arm FT during a regular season game just so MAYBE he could return to the game after his badly injured right arm was checked out. He easily could have said "I'm hurt too bad to return, replace me at the FT line" and no one would have blamed him.

To me that will always be JO. That and formerly speedy baseline moves to blow past guys. I wish we could see a return of that for just 1-2 more years simply because it would be nice to watch, win or lose.

NuffSaid
01-17-2008, 01:05 PM
If you're the Lakers GM, you don't do this trade. It would be the worse "panic mode" decision they'd ever make.

I agree w/the commentators on this one. Move Kwame up to start @ Center, give Odom a more prominent role in the offense and just keep on keeping on the best you can.

DisapointedPacerFan
01-17-2008, 01:12 PM
Bynum is down for a good 8 weeks with that knee injury and Odom really isn't that much of a PF...the rumors will start to fly up again. We should try for this trade:

Pacers Get:
1st Round Pick (LAL)
Javaris Crittenton
Kwame Brown

Lakers Get:
Jermaine O'Neal
Andre Owens
09 2nd Round Pick

Kinda goes to the future, but they get a decent replacement to Crittenton and O'Neal while they give up a useless overpaid player/expiring contract in Brown and their 1st. It might be too much though that the Lakers are giving. But still, once Bynum gets healthy, it will be Fisher-Bryant-Odom-O'Neal-Bynum....that would be freaky.

naptownmenace
01-17-2008, 01:18 PM
Can anybody recap what was said by Jalen and Mash? I can't get ESPN video to play at work.

LG33
01-17-2008, 01:25 PM
Bynum is down for a good 8 weeks with that knee injury and Odom really isn't that much of a PF...the rumors will start to fly up again. We should try for this trade:

Pacers Get:
1st Round Pick (LAL)
Javaris Crittenton
Kwame Brown

Lakers Get:
Jermaine O'Neal
Andre Owens
09 2nd Round Pick

Kinda goes to the future, but they get a decent replacement to Crittenton and O'Neal while they give up a useless overpaid player/expiring contract in Brown and their 1st. It might be too much though that the Lakers are giving. But still, once Bynum gets healthy, it will be Fisher-Bryant-Odom-O'Neal-Bynum....that would be freaky.

I'm not sure we have that 2nd rounder - maybe lost it in the James White trade? Anyways, I don't do this trade. Even when he's not on the court, Jermaine is a good teammate and a good guy, certainly worth more than J-Critt and a 1st, which at the Lakers' current pace would be in the David Harrison range.

MyFavMartin
01-17-2008, 01:27 PM
Bynum is down for a good 8 weeks with that knee injury and Odom really isn't that much of a PF...the rumors will start to fly up again. We should try for this trade:

Pacers Get:
1st Round Pick (LAL)
Javaris Crittenton
Kwame Brown

Lakers Get:
Jermaine O'Neal
Andre Owens
09 2nd Round Pick

Kinda goes to the future, but they get a decent replacement to Crittenton and O'Neal while they give up a useless overpaid player/expiring contract in Brown and their 1st. It might be too much though that the Lakers are giving. But still, once Bynum gets healthy, it will be Fisher-Bryant-Odom-O'Neal-Bynum....that would be freaky.


Those contracts aren't even close to matching.

I wouldn't trade JO until he's back to being healthy. Obviously, his trade value would be a lot better. I also think that the Pacers should keep him unless they get some kind of tremendous young talent, preferably a strong post player or a really high draft pick.

DisapointedPacerFan
01-17-2008, 01:33 PM
I'm not sure we have that 2nd rounder - maybe lost it in the James White trade? Anyways, I don't do this trade. Even when he's not on the court, Jermaine is a good teammate and a good guy, certainly worth more than J-Critt and a 1st, which at the Lakers' current pace would be in the David Harrison range.

Yea i remember..lost that in the White trade..and then we have 2 2nd rounders this year from the James Jones trade...I remember everything...:dance::D


Those contracts aren't even close to matching.

I wouldn't trade JO until he's back to being healthy. Obviously, his trade value would be a lot better. I also think that the Pacers should keep him unless they get some kind of tremendous young talent, preferably a strong post player or a really high draft pick.

Yea most of those JO trades have to involve Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown usually to get the salaries even close.

Does JO still have the player option for next season with the Pacers? How much is it worth?

Mourning
01-17-2008, 01:41 PM
and Detroit because they exist.

Wow! You've still got some edge in ya, Geezer! Guess you are not one of those people that become milder with age :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:.



;)

aero
01-17-2008, 02:00 PM
I wish we would pull the trigger already and get it done. I still stand by my opinion from the poll we had on here not too long ago. We are a better team without him. We score more points and win more games. It seems like JO gets injured, or has stayed injured for some time now. Its time to move on. JO is no longer the all-star he once was.

JayRedd
01-17-2008, 02:02 PM
You guys are flipping nuts if you think we can get Odom and Farmar for JO.

And for the record, Farmar is a lot better that JC Superstar.

Unclebuck
01-17-2008, 02:05 PM
I think we all need to come to the realization that JO has very little trade value. He is extremely injury prone, he has a huge contract that he can opt out of at ther end of the year, his career is about over, he just isn't a very good player anymore. Why would any team want him.

CableKC
01-17-2008, 02:06 PM
Earlier in the offseason, it looked like the Pacers were the ones that did not have to make a move since we were in a "let's see how JONeal does under JO'Bs system, there isn't a need to make a move" mode. Whereas the Lakers were in the other end of the spectrum with Kobe's offseason rants where it seemed like they had to make a move to placate him.

After 4 months with the Lakers a top 3-4 team in the West and the Pacers hoverig under .500 in the LEastern Conference, the tables have pretty much turned. The Lakers could get by with making no moves since they have been doing so well by choosing to do nothing. Whereas with the Pacers, it's arguable ( depending on where you fall on the whole "Are we better with or without JONeal?" argument ) that we are the ones that could/should make a move.

Although I truly doubt that Bynum was ever on the table.......I will still argue that the best trade that we could have gotten from the Lakers would have been in the offseason when the Pacers ACTUALLY had the better "negotiating" hand....now, with the emergance of Bynum and the continued transformation of JONeal into Chris Webber, we have the weaker hand.

Although 20/20 hindsight is alway 100% clear.....is this just another continuing pattern of TPTB tendency to overvalue their players and hold onto them much longer then they have to?

or

Is JONeal's value just that low?

As many have suspected.....it's probably a combination of both those factors.

indygeezer
01-17-2008, 02:09 PM
I wish we would pull the trigger already and get it done. I still stand by my opinion from the poll we had on here not too long ago. We are a better team without him. We score more points and win more games. It seems like JO gets injured, or has stayed injured for some time now. Its time to move on. JO is no longer the all-star he once was.

Look I'm very proud of JO being a tremendous teammate etc and his block ability is evident but, he can't even get back in our not-so-fast uptempo style, How in heck is he going to fit in with Kobe and the triangle???

Evan_The_Dude
01-17-2008, 02:16 PM
I think we all need to come to the realization that JO has very little trade value. He is extremely injury prone, he has a huge contract that he can opt out of at ther end of the year, his career is about over, he just isn't a very good player anymore. Why would any team want him.

I think a team in "Win Now" mode would want him. A team that has a missing piece.I'm not sure the Lakers are the best fit, but it makes the most sense. I wouldn't be surprised if Pat Riley was keeping his eye on the J.O. talk right about now.

ABADays
01-17-2008, 02:26 PM
A healthy JO . . . hmmm, anyone got any beta tapes of that they could send?

aero
01-17-2008, 02:28 PM
If we cant move him this year then i hope for the love of god that he opts out after the season.

If he does then in throwing a party.

CableKC
01-17-2008, 02:29 PM
I think we all need to come to the realization that JO has very little trade value. He is extremely injury prone, he has a huge contract that he can opt out of at ther end of the year, his career is about over, he just isn't a very good player anymore. Why would any team want him.
He can be moved.....it's just that we're going to have to realize and likely accept that we're not going to come out ahead or even in any deal involving him.

Although JONeal is owed WAY TOO much $$$, I think that he will still be traded in the offseason. $66 mil maybe too much to owe a single player over 3 seasons....but after the regular season is ended and he is just owed $44 mil over 2 seasons....he maybe easier to move.

If we can get Contracts that expires within 2 seasons and players that fits whatever holes we need fixing ( better perimeter defensive players and solid defensive/rebounding Big Men ) that fit what we are trying to do, then I would be satisfied. We maybe looking at a trade simiilar to what the Kings got for CWebb.....but I wouldn't mind as much getting that so that we can simply move on from the JONeal era.

naptownmenace
01-17-2008, 03:05 PM
I think we all need to come to the realization that JO has very little trade value. He is extremely injury prone, he has a huge contract that he can opt out of at ther end of the year, his career is about over, he just isn't a very good player anymore. Why would any team want him.

There are several teams that would want him... if he wasn't making maximum salary money. Yeah and if "ifs" were spliffs, we'd all be high.

At this point in his career, I still think he is better than Shaq. Talk about a shell of a player. That doesn't really mean anything but it does kinda make me feel better.

Shutting up now...

JayRedd
01-17-2008, 04:16 PM
If we cant move him this year then i hope for the love of god that he opts out after the season.

Not happening.

Peck
01-17-2008, 05:35 PM
I wonder if the J.O. train ever really was on the track with L.A. at any kind of reasonable price.

However now the Bynum is gone for awhile I wonder if they might have interest in a small big.

To me Ike has no future with our club and while he is not a long term answer for them either, he would be good stop gap measure for them.

I have no idea if they would want Jamaal or not.

But this trade does work and would definately benefit us and might help them.

Los Angeles Lakers

Incoming Players
Ike Diogu
Salary: $2,286,360 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 6.4 REB: 3.5 AST: 0.3 PER: 14.66

Jamaal Tinsley
Salary: $6,300,000 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 13.4 REB: 4.0 AST: 8.5 PER: 13.75


Outgoing Players: Kwame Brown, Jordan FarmarIndiana Pacers

Incoming Players
Kwame Brown
Salary: $9,075,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 5.1 REB: 5.0 AST: 1.2 PER: 10.24

Jordan Farmar
Salary: $1,009,560 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 9.4 REB: 2.4 AST: 2.8 PER: 16.76


Outgoing Players: Ike Diogu, Jamaal Tinsley

Shack80
01-17-2008, 05:42 PM
I am no sure if LA would do that, but I would in a heart beat.

indygeezer
01-17-2008, 05:43 PM
The bad about that Peck is us giving up 8.5 mil in salary and taking back over 10 mil. I recently read that we were just under a mil below luxury tax level. This would put us over I believe.

Hoffmann 21/7
01-17-2008, 05:57 PM
No, JO is my favorite player. keep him!!

Young
01-17-2008, 06:03 PM
It is funny though that they were rolling with Bynum and in very JO fashion he got seriously injured, suddenly creating that need again.

I don't know why they'd move Odom and Farmar though if they are trading to "win now".

Healthy JO I'm actually happy to keep here, even with this offer. And why would someone trade for injured JO? Unfortunately even though I stood firmly in the "he's not broken down" camp a few months ago, it's hard not to wonder now. :(

I hate how fans are so easily dismiss him. JO has been one of the great Pacer players, he wasn't always struggling like this.

Dude shot a 1 arm FT during a regular season game just so MAYBE he could return to the game after his badly injured right arm was checked out. He easily could have said "I'm hurt too bad to return, replace me at the FT line" and no one would have blamed him.

To me that will always be JO. That and formerly speedy baseline moves to blow past guys. I wish we could see a return of that for just 1-2 more years simply because it would be nice to watch, win or lose.

While I pretty much agree with you I still think it's time to move Jermaine, it has been time.

I don't really believe Jermaine wants to be here. I think he would rather play elsewhere, on a better team.

I don't think we are going anywhere with Jermaine here. Better off to send him away now and as his value will probably only continue to lower.

Do the Lakers send Farmar and Odom? I don't know, kind of doubt it. I'd be happy with Lamar and JC but I don't even know that they do that.

This is starting to remind me of the summer and the last thing I want is to be hearing about all this Jermaine trade talk. I can't imagine what that was like for Jermaine.

MyFavMartin
01-17-2008, 06:05 PM
I wonder if the J.O. train ever really was on the track with L.A. at any kind of reasonable price.

However now the Bynum is gone for awhile I wonder if they might have interest in a small big.

To me Ike has no future with our club and while he is not a long term answer for them either, he would be good stop gap measure for them.

I have no idea if they would want Jamaal or not.

But this trade does work and would definately benefit us and might help them.

Los Angeles Lakers

Incoming Players
Ike Diogu
Salary: $2,286,360 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 6.4 REB: 3.5 AST: 0.3 PER: 14.66

Jamaal Tinsley
Salary: $6,300,000 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 13.4 REB: 4.0 AST: 8.5 PER: 13.75


Outgoing Players: Kwame Brown, Jordan FarmarIndiana Pacers

Incoming Players
Kwame Brown
Salary: $9,075,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 5.1 REB: 5.0 AST: 1.2 PER: 10.24

Jordan Farmar
Salary: $1,009,560 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 9.4 REB: 2.4 AST: 2.8 PER: 16.76


Outgoing Players: Ike Diogu, Jamaal Tinsley

My initial reaction was to like the trade, but if JO opts out or goes down with an injury next season, it would be nice to have Ike coming off the bench. Farmar is good, but I like Ike's potential more. I also think that finding a guy in FA or the draft this year like Farmar is a good possibility and we would get to keep Ike.

Although if TPTB really like Shawne at PF, I think they do this trade... which I think would be a mistake.

Trading Ike would mean a good chance of needing to keep Hulk... which I also think would be a mistake.

Can we substitue Hulk for Ike in the trade?


(Pinch me, I'm dreaming.)

Anthem
01-17-2008, 06:20 PM
Seems like Mash and Rose have a pretty accurate take on it.
And what was that?

Shade
01-17-2008, 06:22 PM
I said no to a JO-for-garbage deal then, and I still say no to it now.

tdubb03
01-17-2008, 06:41 PM
And what was that?

Oft-injured, style of play doesn't fit, aging.

If I'm the Lakers I wouldn't do Odom for JO straight up if the contracts matched.

CableKC
01-17-2008, 06:54 PM
And what was that?
That the Lakers have no need to trade for an injury prone JONeal.

Oneal07
01-17-2008, 09:06 PM
If we can get Odom and Farmar, we should jump at that trade. Not sure why the Lakers would do it though.

I doubt this would happen also. Farmar is coming along nicely. Odom won't be happy here in Indiana

aceace
01-17-2008, 10:47 PM
Gasol would fit an up tempo offense much better then JO, Gasol runs the court. IMHO JO will never fit this offense. The other players want to go to him on offense, and then stand around and watch him make one of his moves.

I thought it was strange that when JO came out of the game Wed. He didn't look hurt just humiliated by losing the ball several times by either a bad pass to him or fumbling the ball. We were down and looking bad at the time. Maybe he's not hurt just frustrated.

CableKC
01-18-2008, 12:28 AM
I doubt this would happen also. Farmar is coming along nicely. Odom won't be happy here in Indiana
In all fairness, unless the Lakers FO thinks that they can't do without Bynum for 2 months and MUST therefore make a move to shore up the Frontline, I don't think that they need to make any huge move to acquire a Big Man unless it simply costs them Kwame, Sasha, VladRad and sweetner like Crittenton/future 1st.

In the Pacers case.....the likely cost of acquiring JONeal would either be Odom and/or Farmar. From a Trade POV....I think that a deal centered around Odom, Sasha and Crittenton for JONeal+filler would be fair ( at least from a Pacers POV ). But for the Lakers POV....this is one of those moves that would likely kill whatever chemistry that they have built.

Personally, I don't think they need to do anything. They can probably do better by renting a Big Man like CWebb to keep things going until Bynum returns and then pick up where they left off. They may lose more games then not......but this goes back to the Lakers FO belief that they can be a solid 2nd round Playoff team IF they are healthy. Unless the prognosis for Bynum is much worse then announced, there is no real need to mess with that now.