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View Full Version : do you all really think eric gordon will be ready for NBA next year??



slyder
01-15-2008, 12:09 AM
i'm real impressed with him, for sure, but i think he lacks the seasoning. looked a little discombobulated against illinois the other day.

seems to me a second year at IU would serve him well.

like others, i'm back to watching a lot more IU and .. sorry, a lot less pacers.

Young
01-15-2008, 12:10 AM
I think that Eric could come in and produce off the bench.

I think he is more ready than Derrick Rose is right now.

But I think another year or two would serve him very well.

Robertmto
01-15-2008, 12:24 AM
I just had this arguement today actually. And yes i believe he would produce and depending where he goes, be the ROY. He already had the NBA Range and he's an athletic FREAK. Its not like he's gonan grow 3 inches after one more yr at IU. And honestly his size is his only NBA downfall. But even at 6'4 he can hold his own at the 2.

jmoney2584
01-15-2008, 12:38 AM
Yes, and honestly he could start for the Pacers right away. He was taken "out of his game" yesterday, only because Sampson didn't do anything to try and free him up. Illinois' main goal yesterday was to keep him from blowing up on them so they rotated guards on him all night and made him work his *** off on the defensive end and i think it wore on him a bit. Still, he managed 17 points and made a killing at the free throw line. I love Sampson but offensive plays and utilizing the most out of your players on that end of the court isn't his strongest gift. In the NBA Gordon would be playing next to 4 other people who collectively are much smarter an gifted players than the team he is on now (another reason why I think DJ White will do just fine in the league if he keeps up this beast of a year) and add in the extra court spacing and room to work that goes along with the NBA you got yourself a legit player for a long time. I know the room on an NBA court isn't THAT much greater, but Gordon only needs inches. We will see how he responds vs. Minny on Thursday, I expect more than 17 for sure.

jeffg-body
01-15-2008, 12:57 AM
I'd like to see him stay one more year at IU, but if the Pacers could somehow get him with a pic this year I'D be jumping for joy.

jmoney2584
01-15-2008, 01:09 AM
Haha yea I think we would all love to see him stay one more at IU, but in this day an age that is highly unlikely when significantly less skilled players are making the jump the same year and collecting their checks. As much as it would help, in all honesty, you can always go back to school...but if you blow out your ACL you MIGHT not ever have the same basketball career. In this line of work when opportunity knocks you have to answer the door in your work clothes and get after it.

BruceLeeroy
01-15-2008, 01:35 AM
Gordon's ready. Would it help if he stayed another year in college? Of course, but you could say that about any freshman player. IMO he's better and more ready than any of the other highly touted freshman guards in this years draft.

Hailey12
01-15-2008, 01:42 AM
I just had this arguement today actually.

Hey you argued with ME!


In the NBA Gordon would be playing next to 4 other people who collectively are much smarter an gifted players than the team he is on now (another reason why I think DJ White will do just fine in the league if he keeps up this beast of a year) and add in the extra court spacing and room to work that goes along with the NBA you got yourself a legit player for a long time.

Personally I think that DJ would be a better NBA player right now. I don't get to watch many IU games so I can't really make a good evaluation of Gordon. All I have to say is that it's very difficult to determine that he will do better in the NBA just because he will have better teammates, because you also have to consider the fact that he will also be playing much better players at the NBA level.
As for the pacers going out of the way to get him in this years draft if he does go, might not be a bad idea. But, I think the first thing the pacers might want to do is find themselves a new PG. Because if Gordon was on the same team as Tinsley he might never see the ball.

BoomBaby31
01-15-2008, 01:53 AM
Of course it would serve EG well if he stayed another year at I.U but this is 2008, MONEY MONEY MONEY. He isn't staying at I.U, he can compete at the NBA level and will be a high draft pick which equals dollars. The PG position is lacking in the NBA so I see him getting playing time right off the bat. He's definitely a 1 not a 2.

jmoney2584
01-15-2008, 01:55 AM
Hey you argued with ME!



Personally I think that DJ would be a better NBA player right now. I don't get to watch many IU games so I can't really make a good evaluation of Gordon. All I have to say is that it's very difficult to determine that he will do better in the NBA just because he will have better teammates, because you also have to consider the fact that he will also be playing much better players at the NBA level.
As for the pacers going out of the way to get him in this years draft if he does go, might not be a bad idea. But, I think the first thing the pacers might want to do is find themselves a new PG. Because if Gordon was on the same team as Tinsley he might never see the ball.

Basically DJ is playing like a MAN this year. He seriously goes glass on da.m.n near everything, whether he is snatching it up with two hands or just getting a tip on it, his hustle and determenation this year are really a joy to watch. He had a steal off an inbounds and dunk all over some poor chap in this Michigan game AND he had a similar hustle play off an Illinois inbounds where he ganked the ball and layed it in too. He is really giving 110% on both ends of the court. I haven't had an IU player get me pumped like DJ white in awhile. Sure i revel in Gordons brilliance at times and just shake my head at some of his acrobatic feats, but the raw passion and intensity of DJ this year is what makes me get out of me seat. Anyone notice we lack that on the Pacers ? Sure JO does his little Gamecock strut after blocking someone, but we don't have any players that just get the crowd juiced. Watching DJ dunk all over people with his bajingles in their faces is like a shot of steroid straight to the neck muscle. AHH! Excuse me while I go get a glass of muscle milk...

Bball
01-15-2008, 02:05 AM
Any player that is a sure fire NBA pick is foolish to not come out.

Unclebuck
01-15-2008, 09:40 AM
I don't know, haven't seen enough of him yet. At first glance he almost in a little way reminds me of Jay Edwards. Don't yell at me, I know he's much better than Jay Edwards

tdubb03
01-15-2008, 10:25 AM
I'm more impressed with him every time I see him play. He's got such body control and athleticism. I would like to see him be more physical on defense, but I think that'll come.

ABADays
01-15-2008, 01:00 PM
He's as ready as Conley was. He absolutely has NBA shooting range.

Doug
01-15-2008, 01:12 PM
Any player that is a sure fire NBA pick is foolish to not come out.

Amen. Take the millions. As long as you don't waste it, you can always go back and get your degree and a "real job" if you want.

naptownmenace
01-15-2008, 03:13 PM
He reminds me a lot of Brandon Roy and we all know how NBA ready he was.

His combination of outside shooting and athleticism is rare. I think his lack of height is a negative though. At best he'll be Kevin Martin at worst he'll be John Starks.

mb221
01-15-2008, 03:29 PM
I would like to see EJ improve his handles in traffic and his decision making throughout the rest of this season if he is indeed going to forgo his Soph season and go pro. He seems to try to force it a lot through double teams and worse, although it can definitely be said this has something to do with Sampson's offense. A lot of the time it appears he just puts it in Gordon's hands and says "make it happen." If you saw some better offensive structure from IU I think you would really get to see what Gordon is made of.

Shade
01-15-2008, 04:17 PM
Do I really need to say anything?

I would trade anyone, and I mean ANYONE, on this roster for EJ. Without a second thought. He's going to be special.

jmoney2584
01-15-2008, 04:48 PM
Do I really need to say anything?

I would trade anyone, and I mean ANYONE, on this roster for EJ. Without a second thought. He's going to be special.

I Co-sign to this Shade, let's make it happen.

Robertmto
01-15-2008, 05:10 PM
But now the question is, how do you sink to the first pick to snag EG without being noticed? :devil:

Bball
01-15-2008, 05:44 PM
I personally still have questions about how his game will translate to the NBA.

He's listed as 6-4... which means he's probably not 6-4.

I think he will be burned by being a tweener... Another of a long line of SG's in a PG's body. How well he can work on his game as PG will probably go a long way toward deciding his ultimate fate in the NBA.

In HS and college his athleticism and strength allow him to be a notch above other players. In the NBA his strength won't be such a factor, especially when it's negated by 6-6+ players defending him. And there's obviously more concentrated athleticism in the NBA than there is in HS or even college.

He won't be able to use his strength and athleticism nearly as much to bail himself out of a bad decision or bad place in the NBA.

Obviously, there are some players that transcend their size and are able to play outside of where their size would normally have them penciled in. I've yet to truly see that from Eric Gordon tho.

In fact, if I was him that is another reason I'd bail on college after this season... Leaving HS it's all about 'potential'... the longer you are around college the scouts tend to expect that potential to be fulfilled and even expand into new horizons.

He's almost a project player. Can he be an NBA PG? ...Or is his ceiling so high that he can be an undersized SG and turn his size into an advantage?

idioteque
01-15-2008, 06:22 PM
I project him to be a Steve Francis type of player with a better ability to distribute the ball, and much better intangibles. Steve Francis, though his recent exploits taint his reputation, had a load of talent and could have been an All-Star caliber player if he had any work ethic and a better head on his shoulders.

It would be stupid for any freshman leading the Big 10 in scoring and getting as much cred as Gordon to not come out after one year in college. What if he destroys his knee against Northwestern next year and can never play in the pros? Education can always wait, athletics not so much. He needs to cash that check. Could he improve in college, sure, anyone could. But is it the best business decision for him to stay one more year? Hell no.

jmoney2584
01-15-2008, 09:15 PM
He reminds me a lot of Brandon Roy and we all know how NBA ready he was.

His combination of outside shooting and athleticism is rare. I think his lack of height is a negative though. At best he'll be Kevin Martin at worst he'll be John Starks.


Well the way the Pacers play I think he would be perfect in our offense, in that we need the drive and kick and the long range J. I think he'll be just fine once he utilizes a little more mid range game. The way he is doing things now, it is either 25+ ft away or right at the rim. He has mid range ability, but you rarely see him use it. I've been his biggest fan all year and thats one thing i would like to see more of. It would make him more effective on the screen and rolls as well. Also maybe a nice little floater. A well known floater would draw the defense just far enough from the rim, forcing them to challenge him slightly earlier in penetration, he could use his athletic ability to get an inch on them and draw contact more when taking it to the hoop against the NBA bigs.

Robertmto
01-15-2008, 09:41 PM
I personally still have questions about how his game will translate to the NBA.

He's listed as 6-4... which means he's probably not 6-4.

I think he will be burned by being a tweener... Another of a long line of SG's in a PG's body. How well he can work on his game as PG will probably go a long way toward deciding his ultimate fate in the NBA.

In HS and college his athleticism and strength allow him to be a notch above other players. In the NBA his strength won't be such a factor, especially when it's negated by 6-6+ players defending him. And there's obviously more concentrated athleticism in the NBA than there is in HS or even college.

He won't be able to use his strength and athleticism nearly as much to bail himself out of a bad decision or bad place in the NBA.

Obviously, there are some players that transcend their size and are able to play outside of where their size would normally have them penciled in. I've yet to truly see that from Eric Gordon tho.

In fact, if I was him that is another reason I'd bail on college after this season... Leaving HS it's all about 'potential'... the longer you are around college the scouts tend to expect that potential to be fulfilled and even expand into new horizons.

He's almost a project player. Can he be an NBA PG? ...Or is his ceiling so high that he can be an undersized SG and turn his size into an advantage?

Dwayne Wade?

But no he can't run the point effectively enough to be a starting NBA Point Guard. He would be able to play backup for about at the position tho.

rexnom
01-15-2008, 10:32 PM
I look forward to EJ being passed on by teams because of a lack of size.

Robertmto
01-15-2008, 11:23 PM
I look forward to EJ being passed on by teams because of a lack of size.

if he drops below #3 then i can count at least 2 GMs that should be fired

jmoney2584
01-15-2008, 11:26 PM
If he drops below #3 then we better be getting pick #4 or I will paint the town brown...no joke

Naptown_Seth
01-16-2008, 12:30 AM
Yeah, I'm not sold on EJ or Rose being quite ready yet either, but that won't matter because they should and will come out. As long as fans realize that it might take a season or two to develop his game further.

But there is a fair amount of talent to be picked this year it appears. I get why homers want EJ, but he's not the only quality answer to the myriad Pacer's needs.

jmoney2584
01-16-2008, 12:43 AM
Yeah, I'm not sold on EJ or Rose being quite ready yet either, but that won't matter because they should and will come out. As long as fans realize that it might take a season or two to develop his game further.

But there is a fair amount of talent to be picked this year it appears. I get why homers want EJ, but he's not the only quality answer to the myriad Pacer's needs.

I think the Pacers "question" has Answers A.) and B.) at least....maybe a C.) too, we are FUBAR right now

Robertmto
01-16-2008, 04:34 AM
Yeah, I'm not sold on EJ or Rose being quite ready yet either, but that won't matter because they should and will come out. As long as fans realize that it might take a season or two to develop his game further.

Rose needs to become more of a pure passer and stop trying to score all game if he wants to play point in the conglomeration.

Since86
01-16-2008, 03:17 PM
But there is a fair amount of talent to be picked this year it appears. I get why homers want EJ, but he's not the only quality answer to the myriad Pacer's needs.

He's the best fit outside of Greg Oden.

You get a special scorer that has the ability to be a very VERY good player, who will step in and contribute right away with his ability to shoot, get to the rim, and helps solve the marketing/fan problem.

It kills two birds with one pick. He's from Indy, so not only do you have that following but then you get the IU following, plus because he is from here you can market just him. There has been no indications of a bad attitude, only that he's an extremely hard worker.

Is he the fix-all? No, but no one player will be, but he sure as hell helps in more ways than just between the lines.

Midcoasted
01-17-2008, 02:42 AM
Anyone who thinks Gordon couldn't make it as a PG in the NBA obviously hasn't watched alot of IU games. He has great ball handling skills, and is very good at driving and dishing. He is very quick and can get around his man with ease. This cause the defense to "collapse" on him.If not he can get the lay in or dunk 9 times out of 10 once he beats his man.

His passing, while it isn't the best I've ever seen, is pretty impressive from an 18 year old who is a SG.

So he has speed, the ability to drive, is a pretty darn good passer, and his defense is very solid. He is also very smart. Theres not a doubt in my mind that he is smart enough to run a team. He is a top 10 pick, maybe, top 3, and we would be blessed if we get him. With Gordon, Granger, Dunleavy, Williams, Foster, Diener, Rush, Harrison and JO, and a touch of Quis, that would be a rotation that could put us in the top 3 in the East IMHO.

If there were only a way we could drop Tinsley and add Gordon next year, now THAT could potentially be the best thing that happened to the Pacers since they drafted #31. When will Indiana be remember again as havin the "Sixth Man Advantage" It sure has been a while.

FireTheCoach
01-17-2008, 02:59 AM
I've not a read a single post in this thread so as to not cloud my own opinion...

Uhhh... this kid is good, but my answer is definitely NO. He can put the ball in the hole, sure... but that does not in itself make one ready for the NBA. Gordan, at least at this point in time IMHO, needs to develope the intagibles that turns the college basketball player into the NBA professional athlete. He's definitely a prospect but IMO he's not NBA material just yet... the B10 season just started though, lets see where he's at come next March.

croz24
01-17-2008, 04:43 AM
ok, well then 'IYHO' tell us WHY he's not ready...you cite that gordOn can fill it up and that he needs to work on his intangibles but nothing specific. which intangibles? what does he need to work on? what is the big 10 season going to help him improve? back your opinion up please...

Midcoasted
01-17-2008, 05:01 AM
Intangibles cant be learned. He already posesses the intangibles you speak of. How i the world did IU go from nothing the last few years to a top ten this year? It's Eric Gordon. He does have a good team, but he is that thing that IU has been missing, that thing that puts them over the edge into one of the top teams in the nation. Yes he does need to develop a little more. But we know the NBA is fine at developing people, well sometimes.

Yes I would love to see Eric Gordon stay all four years. College basketball is probably the most exciting sport to watch. The NBA can't even compare.

I would love to see IU return to it's glory days. If there was only someway we could prevent these kids from going to the NBA early, college basketball would be so awesome.

But then on the other hand, if they have the talent to play in the league, I believe they should be paid accordingly.

Its just this dilemma Ill always have.

Bball
01-17-2008, 05:03 AM
ok, well then 'IYHO' tell us WHY he's not ready...you cite that gordOn can fill it up and that he needs to work on his intangibles but nothing specific. which intangibles? what does he need to work on? what is the big 10 season going to help him improve? back your opinion up please...

I'm sure FTC has his own ideas but from what I've seen so far, he still makes some questionable decisions. But truthfully, I've yet to see him just look head and shoulders above the other players in his all around game. He's got range. He can jump. He can dunk the basketball. He can do a reverse dunk. But as I've said, he's 6-4 (if that in reality) and those things are going to be negated at the next level. They won't come as easy in the first place and his size will be a hindrance in the second place. He's going to have to be another notch smarter and hungrier than the opposing player or his athletic advantage (which won't be as great in the NBA anyway) will simply be neutralized. That's if he's to play SG.

I've yet to see him dig down and get the fire in his eyes that tells you he's ready for the next level. That may come as the games intensify and March Madness rolls around. I reserve the right to change my opinion as he gets more experience. In fact, seeing how fast his learning curve moves along is one of the things that will be a better predictor of where his ceiling might be.

If he can transition to PG then we're talking a whole different story. But what little I've seen of him at the point, he's not looked like an NBA PG (yet).

As I stated earlier, he's a SG in a PG's body. That's going to be his biggest hurdle. He'll be a project to be an NBA PG. ...And to be an NBA SG, he's going to have to do a lot more than he's shown in college or he won't measure up (pardon the pun).

That said, barring a drop in his stock, I still say he should come out because he has that "potential" label all over him. Another year in college is only going to let the book on him become more complete and some new hot shot will rise up the lottery ladder and leapfrog him.

-Bball

jmoney2584
01-17-2008, 12:52 PM
He's got range. He can jump. He can dunk the basketball. He can do a reverse dunk. But as I've said, he's 6-4 (if that in reality) and those things are going to be negated at the next level. They won't come as easy in the first place and his size will be a hindrance in the second place.

Go look at 6'4 Dwayne Wades college stats, I posted them in comparison several weeks ago. Gordon is better in his FIRST year. Wade played multiple years and never had a season quite as good as what Gordon is having now...and will you argue Dwayne Wades place in the upper tier of NBA players?

What about Ben Gordon? EJ has better shooting skills than he and is more athletic AND has a much better character about him. Some people on this board cream their pants at having a BEN Gordon on this team.

I watched an ESPN interview on him yesterday and he said he modeled his game after Chauncey billups, and if you look...they are pretty similar in stature and playing style. Billups has a more refined mid range game, but they both have the FEARED big time 3pt ability. Also, don't forget that Billups wasn't that heralded when he first came into the league. He bounced around before finding his niche` in Detroit where he has THUS become Finals MVP and a top tier PG.

Maybe it is because I have watched EVERY single IU game this year, but people using his size as an excuse to how he won't excel in the next level is crap. He was ranked in the top 3 coming out of high school for a reason and he is ranked in the NCAA accordingly for a reason. He will do fine in the NBA and even better for the Pacers. Get rid of shmucks like Tins and O'neal to insure we get a Gordon and you will have one hell of a team to watch and be EXCITED for in the coming years. Conseco will pack out to watch Indy's native son rep the Circle City night in and night out.

I definitely understand where you are coming from, but you have to believe on this one, you don't hear about a kid since he was 15-16 for no reason, you will be pleasantly suprised Bball, pleasantly suprised.

IU plays Minnesota tonight at 9PM on ESPN, check that out...I'm willing to bet the Gophers won't D up IU like the Illini did. Everybody TUNE IN.

croz24
01-17-2008, 01:44 PM
billups wasn't that heralded? wasn't he a top 10 pick (#3 i think)? but yes, ej is also comparable to billups. basically though, you can take any player that ej is compared to (wade, ben g, billups, etc) and ej is better than all of them at the same stage in their careers.

jmoney2584
01-17-2008, 02:07 PM
I ddn't mean unheralded as much as i meant bounced around league a bit. Heralded in the NBA would have been a better way of saying it

Dr. Goldfoot
01-17-2008, 02:33 PM
He has more turnovers than rebounds or assists and their only three games into conference play. So he wasn't really protecting the ball all that well against powerhouses like Chicago St., Coppin St., Longwood, Western Carolina, Chattanooga, Tennesse St. etc...

He'll go pro. I don't think he's the second coming though.

jmoney2584
01-17-2008, 02:39 PM
He can't be the second coming, that is supposed to be Lebron. It also could do with the offense the sampson runs isn't that great. Lots of off ball screening with a dash of ball reversal and a few pick and rolls.He kind of just turns EJ lose a lot of times and doesn't draw up many plays for him. Sampson is more of a defense and hustle guy. Get Gordon in an offense with a coach who really has good x's and o's...or at least let's them chuck 3's as much as they want ( ;) )and he will do well. That little move the pacers run all the time to murphy and dunleavy, where the point guard dribbles to the threepoint line in transition, does a small half circle and kicks it back to them for the trailing three would be automatic for Gordon.

Dr. Goldfoot
01-17-2008, 02:54 PM
He relies heavily on the three point shot ( half of his shots so far are 3 pointers). Can he consistently make those shots from three feet further back? Right now he's shooting .427 from the arc and literally half of his shots are 3's (49.7% of them). His assist to turnover ratio against weak-*** teams is negative (.63/1). He does get to the line almost 10 times a game which indicates he's aggressively going to the hoop but at 6'4" :rolleyes: he'll be met by much tougher defenders in the NBA. He'll still probably be the second PG picked in the draft.

croz24
01-17-2008, 03:04 PM
can he make 3's from 3 ft further back??? a 32 foot 3 pter would be difficult for anybody to hit consistently but i have faith ej could do it ;-)

jmoney2584
01-17-2008, 03:32 PM
He won't be the second PG picked in the draft bc he isn't a PG. And he allready shoots his 3's from NBA+ range. 24-28 feet is the range he fires from and at a .427% clip at that, all while shooting 49% from the field. He does actively get to the line as well, and stop knocking him being 6'4 like it makes a difference when drawing contact. A.I. is smaller than 6'4, D Wade IS 6'4, they all get to the line against the bigger defenders in the NBA near the top # of times in the league. I hope everyone in the draft thinks exactly the way you do Goldfoot, that way EJ can slip down into our hands without us having to off our untalent to get him. Maybe you should go sprinkle some of your mental ju-ju around the NBA front offices come June. I'll chip-in 15...maybe 20 bucks on gas

d_c
01-17-2008, 03:36 PM
If he drops below #3 then we better be getting pick #4 or I will paint the town brown...no joke

The truth is, you guys are NOWHERE near bad enough to get that high of a draft pick.

Too many teams have had WAY too big a head start on you in that department.

I've watched the Warriors for 19 years, so I know something about lottery odds and how they work.

Shade
01-17-2008, 03:39 PM
I've not a read a single post in this thread so as to not cloud my own opinion...

Uhhh... this kid is good, but my answer is definitely NO. He can put the ball in the hole, sure... but that does not in itself make one ready for the NBA. Gordan, at least at this point in time IMHO, needs to develope the intagibles that turns the college basketball player into the NBA professional athlete. He's definitely a prospect but IMO he's not NBA material just yet... the B10 season just started though, lets see where he's at come next March.

If you think "putting the ball in the hole" is the only thing that EJ can do effectively, you really need to watch more IU games.

EJ is an excellent shooter, good ball-handler, and is quick. He's not a great passer yet, but he's certainly no worse than Dwayne Wade. In fact, he's very similar to Wade, IMO. Right now, Wade is a better finisher and a bit faster, but EJ is a MUCH better shooter.

I disagree that EJ is a PG, though. He's more of a SG, really. He's kind of like Wade and Iverson in that he can play the point, but he's not really a traditional PG.

jmoney2584
01-17-2008, 03:47 PM
If you think "putting the ball in the hole" is the only thing that EJ can do effectively, you really need to watch more IU games.

EJ is an excellent shooter, good ball-handler, and is quick. He's not a great passer yet, but he's certainly no worse than Dwayne Wade. In fact, he's very similar to Wade, IMO. Right now, Wade is a better finisher and a bit faster, but EJ is a MUCH better shooter.

I disagree that EJ is a PG, though. He's more of a SG, really. He's kind of like Wade and Iverson in that he can play the point, but he's not really a traditional PG.

Atta boy Shadey you are right on with that, I assume you will be front and center for the Minny game tonight.

Shade
01-17-2008, 03:56 PM
Atta boy Shadey you are right on with that, I assume you will be front and center for the Minny game tonight.

Hell yeah. Should be a good game, too. Tubby's already turning the Gophers around.

jmoney2584
01-17-2008, 03:59 PM
Props to Tubby, but we'll be the ones turning tonight, turning their a55es torwards the door that is.

EDIT: *knock on wood*

Shade
01-17-2008, 04:03 PM
Props to Tubby, but we'll be the ones turning tonight, turning their a55es torwards the door that is.

EDIT: *knock on wood*

We definitely should, but I'm not going to pretend that we haven't played in the Twinkie Invitational Classic so far this season. And Big Ten road games are almost always tough, no matter who you play.

But we should still win.

jmoney2584
01-17-2008, 04:08 PM
Yea Teas A&M (#9) got dropped for BK's 900th so that is another Poll position for the taking if we can pull one out in the Barn.

Shade
01-17-2008, 04:12 PM
Yea Teas A&M (#9) got dropped for BK's 900th so that is another Poll position for the taking if we can pull one out in the Barn.

Yeah, we're really close to pulling back up to our early-season ranking of #8.

Since86
01-17-2008, 04:57 PM
He relies heavily on the three point shot ( half of his shots so far are 3 pointers). Can he consistently make those shots from three feet further back? Right now he's shooting .427 from the arc and literally half of his shots are 3's (49.7% of them). His assist to turnover ratio against weak-*** teams is negative (.63/1). He does get to the line almost 10 times a game which indicates he's aggressively going to the hoop but at 6'4" :rolleyes: he'll be met by much tougher defenders in the NBA. He'll still probably be the second PG picked in the draft.

You obviously haven't watched him very much if you can even think about questioning his NBA range, or his ability to consistantly hit it.

He's shooting 3 ft beyond the NBA range game in and game out and hitting them. He doesn't shoot uncontested shots EVER. And I literally mean ever. You will see a coach go absolutely nuts if he shoots the ball without someone guarding him and getting a hand in his face.

He has the ability to get the shot off whenever he wants when he goes to that inbetween the legs step back. It's a thing of beauty. He can shoot it off the dribble or catch and shoot.

You want to question his dribbling? Okay. You want to question his passing? Okay. But if you're questioning is shooting range or his ability to knock down contested NBA 3s then you should really watch him play.

There's a reason why DJ White is having the best season of his career, and it's because of Gordon. Every team looks to shut him down. He's the focus of their defense, don't let him beat us.

He gets ahead of himself with the ball, which is the reason for his TOs and lack of assists. He has the tendency to make a pass that shouldn't have gotten through, or when he should have shot the ball, which leaves his teammates unready which results in a turnover.

Gordon doesn't get that look in his eye that bball mentioned for a few reasons. #1 because the rest of the team try to take over games but always go back to him when they really need too and #2 because he just doesn't get hyped up and really get into that aggressive looking mode, but he does with his play.

He will get to the rim or to the line whenever he wants, in whatever situation. He can most definately take over games when needed, he knows that, his teammates know that, everyone in the gym knows that. He has not yet played 40mins of pure hard style basketball to really make himself stand out. He plays at that level for 5-6mins gets the lead then the ball goes away from him because other people want to get involved.

He's scored under 20pts this season 3 whole freaking times, and one was because of injury. The other two he put up 15 and 17.

jmoney2584
01-17-2008, 05:22 PM
I'm fortunate enough to have access to the BIG TEN NETWORK ...(b@$tards) so I hear you 86. People non this board better catch the Minny game tonight bc they are speaking based off of maybe two nationally televised games

jmoney2584
01-18-2008, 12:07 AM
Wow tough win for the hoosiers tonight, but the fact we should have never won this game but did..on the road..in the big ten, speaks volumes about our TEAM skill set. That aside, EJ didn't have a great game, but when you pick up three first half fouls (two of which were completely questionable) it really takes away your ability to be aggressive and do what you do. Even though his stat line is not solid (probably his worst of the season) it was obvious that the Hoosiers just didn't play well. He did some some good passing skills in this game though and hit two clutch free throws to up the lead, the team as a whole were sloppy though.

FireTheCoach
01-18-2008, 12:20 AM
Vs. Minn.
3-8 fg
2-6 3pt
12 points

Not a typical night for him for sure... but thats what he did tonight regardless.

I've been around the game long enough to know that being a prolific scorer in college doesn't necessarily equate to being a stud in the NBA. I guess the word "ready" should be defined by those that think he is "ready" right now... seems to be more than a few of you on here... Is he ready to get drafted and sit on a bench... hell, sure he is... is he ready to get drafted and step on the floor as an NBA starter.... no, not right now. Will he be ready after the experience of a B10 season and post season play against other top shelf college athletes... well I guess we'll find that out wont we.

Other than being a reliable scorer most often... he doesn't really stand head and shoulders above the pack in any other aspect IMO. He doesn't seem to be a leader on the floor, not vocally anyway. He's not a great defender and he'd be exploited for that in the NBA. He's not a terrible passer but he's not really special at it either. Word is that he's foul prone, but that goes hand in hand with the defensive lapses.

I mean, sure he can score and has a good stroke but that doesn't make you a successfull pro athlete at the NBA level... I'm sure he'll declare after this year and go for the money, he'd be stupid not to and I'm sure he'll go quick in the draft... but at the level that he plays right now he'd be just another rookie guard that can shoot the ball. Of course that all JMHO.

I return you now to your regularly scheduled bashing of my opinions.

Dr. Goldfoot
01-18-2008, 12:24 AM
I watched tonight. He had a bad game. Really didn't contribute on either side of the ball ( 12 pts 7 TO). When is the next game I'll be able to watch w/o the network?

jmoney2584
01-18-2008, 12:47 AM
Yea my boy let me down this game (although i will contest the refs took him out of the action early, but I'm a huge hoosier fan so..i plead the onetwothreefour...FIIFFF). January 26th at 1:00PM on CBS vs. UCONN, should be an interesting out of conference matchup. The following game, January 31 @ #17 Wisconsin at 9:00PM on ESPN will be a hell of a game, a battle for top of the Big Ten, looking forward to that for sure. Hope you catch the next game for sure, IU as a whole played horrible tonight, not just him..we need to learn to break the press and attack the 2-3 zone better, but regardless...gutty win.

Rajah Brown
01-19-2008, 08:21 AM
EJ will be just fine at the NBA level. He won't be a top-5 type player,
but has the tools to eventually be in the next tier of guys.

He'll need to develop a mid-range, pull-up game, improve his ball
handling in traffic and as every 19-yr old does, make better
decisions under duress.

I just hope like hell he doesn't end up in NY playing for a (used to
be anyway) hated rival like the Knicks.

Robertmto
01-19-2008, 10:19 AM
EJ will be just fine at the NBA level. He won't be a top-5 type player,
but has the tools to eventually be in the next tier of guys.

He'll need to develop a mid-range, pull-up game, improve his ball
handling in traffic and as every 19-yr old does, make better
decisions under duress.

I just hope like hell he doesn't end up in NY playing for a (used to
be anyway) hated rival like the Knicks.

ummmmm all he does is pull up?? College three NBA three, all that.

obnoxiousmodesty
01-19-2008, 12:27 PM
Indystar IU writer Terry Hutchens has weighed in on this very subject in his blog.

http://blogs.indystar.com/hoosiersinsider/archives/2008/01/is_gordon_ready.html#comments

Rajah Brown
01-19-2008, 12:48 PM
Robertmto-

Note I said 'mid-range'. That would be between say about 8' and
15' or so. I don't have an EJ seasonal, shot chart in front of me,
but Ive seen most of IU's games this year and don't recall him
taking many shots in that range. Most of his points come on 3's,
layups/dunks and FT's.

That's fine in college. But the open 3's won't came as often in
the NBA and the layups and dunks will be tough to come by.
The ability to use a couple hard dribbles past a perimiter defender
and pullup and hit that 8' to 15' shot is in short supply at the NBA
level and will make EJ alot tougher to stop if and when he develops
it.

Robertmto
01-21-2008, 06:01 AM
Robertmto-

Note I said 'mid-range'. That would be between say about 8' and
15' or so. I don't have an EJ seasonal, shot chart in front of me,
but Ive seen most of IU's games this year and don't recall him
taking many shots in that range. Most of his points come on 3's,
layups/dunks and FT's.

That's fine in college. But the open 3's won't came as often in
the NBA and the layups and dunks will be tough to come by.
The ability to use a couple hard dribbles past a perimiter defender
and pullup and hit that 8' to 15' shot is in short supply at the NBA
level and will make EJ alot tougher to stop if and when he develops
it.

you haven't seen it because he doesn't have to do it. He scores by slashing and hitting long range jumpers. Why fix whats not broken? And besides... Not alot of players AT ALL in the NBA play a mid range game.

ChicagoPacer
01-21-2008, 02:24 PM
you haven't seen it because he doesn't have to do it. He scores by slashing and hitting long range jumpers. Why fix whats not broken? And besides... Not alot of players AT ALL in the NBA play a mid range game.

You're right. But most of the players without a mid range game aren't 6-4 either. Wade is athletically superior to EJ, so I don't see this is the perfect comparison. EJ is more of an outside player who needs to develop better ball handling. Playing against NBA players will be a whole new level of "contested jump shot" he hasn't seen yet. The mid range game will buy him space.

The guy will definitely be an offensive threat on the court, but I see him as potentially a defensive liability.

Players from the last 20 years he kind of reminds me of:

-Ricky Pierce
-Nick Anderson
-John Starks
-Vinnie Johnson

Gordon can fill a couple of roles at the next level:

1-Instant offense as a 6th man.
2-A perfect complement as maybe a number three option for a team. Preferrably one with a solid center who can pass out of the post. Either that or paired with a Bryant type of can draw a lot of attention.

jmoney2584
01-21-2008, 04:02 PM
I'd be interested to see what all the knocks were on Dwayne Wade coming out of college...

Since86
01-21-2008, 04:17 PM
Weakness: Wade is dangerously close to being a combo guard. Too small to be a shooting guard not enough point guard skills to run a team offense ... While he shows range on his shot, his mid-range shooting remains streaky ... Must improve on moving without the ball he often needs the ball in his hands to create offense ... Wade's ball handling could stand to be improved if he is to play some point guard in the NBA ... Size. Many undersized guards have a hard time transitioning to the NBA game. Wade has the benefit of long arms which allow him to play big for his size ... Not much of a 3-point shooter although he does have the ability to make 3's. He often doesn't get his body fully squared to the basket ...

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/dwyanewade.htm


Heat SELECTION
Dwyane Wade | SG | 6-5 | Marquette

Ford's Take: The first big shocker of the draft. Pat Riley really wanted a player who could contribute right away. Wade can play in the backcourt with Eddie Jones. He's got a good handle and can play point at times. He's got a great first step and is a solid defender. He's one of the most mature players in the draft. The biggest issue? The Heat desperately need a good shooter in the backcourt. For all of Wade's strengths, he isn't a good long range shooter. Interesting pick. Obviously, by passing on Chris Kaman and Maciej Lampe, Riley doesn't like projects.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/d03/story?id=1572845

http://www.hoopshype.com/draft/dwayne_wade.htm


And I don't think DWade is much more superior of an athelete. Dunks in the NBA are far easier to get than those in college because NBA players really don't challenge each other at the rim. If someone rises up, defensive players usually stay on the ground and watch. In college it seems like everything is contested. I mean Troy Murphy drove from the 3pt line last game and had a two handed uncontested dunk.

Also the court is bigger and help can't cheat off their offensive player as much as they can in the NBA.

Robertmto
01-21-2008, 05:05 PM
I'd be interested to see what all the knocks were on Dwayne Wade coming out of college...

see 86s post. Dwayne Wade is the perfect comparison. they play excatly the same. They played the same in college and they will play the same in the NBA

jmoney2584
01-21-2008, 05:20 PM
see 86s post. Dwayne Wade is the perfect comparison. they play excatly the same. They played the same in college and they will play the same in the NBA

Yea I've been saying Wade is a good comparison for several months now, but no one believes me on it. They just knock his size and say he isn't as athletic as Wade and yada yada. I posted stats on here awhile back's of wades entire collegiate career vs. EJs current year and EJ is having a better season as a freshman than Wade ever did in several years at Marquette.

Thanks for the draft comparisons though, sounds like most of us have been on the money. Most people that come here analyzing Erics game haven't watched every IU game like some have. He has his weaknesses, but is he ready for the NBA? yes. Will he have an outstanding NBA career? No doubt in my mind, he will just keep adapting and improving. He is a humble kid and by all accounts an incredibly hard worker and practice guy. People talk about translation to the NBA..if you translate that work ethic and desire to NBA practice and dedication, throw in a dash of your god given skills and you have a recipe for success under any program.

Since86
01-21-2008, 05:28 PM
Yea I've been saying Wade is a good comparison for several months now, but no one believes me on it. They just knock his size and say he isn't as athletic as Wade and yada yada.


For the record, DWade's predraft workout vert. leap was 35inches, that's not anywhere close to being spectactular.

ChicagoPacer
01-21-2008, 05:49 PM
see 86s post. Dwayne Wade is the perfect comparison. they play excatly the same. They played the same in college and they will play the same in the NBA

They do not play the same, and I'll show you why:

Look at Gordon per 36 minutes this year:

24.7 pts, 3.6 rebs, 2.5 ast, 4.0 turnovers, 1.3 stl, 0.7 blks

Now Wade his first year per 36 minutes:

22.0 pts, 8.1 reb, 4.2 ast, 3.7 turnovers, 3.0 stl, 1.4 blocks


Scoring and shooting: advantage Gordon.

Everything else: advantage Wade. Especially rebounding.

Wade has longer arms, is more athletic, and as a result plays "bigger" than Gordon. The proof is in the rebounds, steal, and block numbers. You can argue that Gordon faces better competition, but that wouldn't be correct either. These averages are for Wade's full season, while Gordon's #s are weighted heavily toward pre-conference. IU did not have a strong pre-conference schedule this year. What Gordon has on Wade at similar career stages is that Gordon is much more of a finished product offensively. Wade had the bigger upside due to the things already mentioned.

If you want to compare him to someone most similar who happens to be successful in the NBA, pick Gilbert Arenas.

Gordon 24.7 pts, 3.6 rebs, 2.5 ast, 4.0 turnovers, 1.3 stl, 0.7 blks
Arenas 17.3 pts, 4.6 reb, 2.4 ast, 2.9 turnovers, 2.3 stl, 0.3 blks

Gordon is basically a more offensively developed Arenas at this stage. And if you recall, Arenas struggled his first two years in the league. Gordon may not, but I would argue that Arenas really came around offensively and he pretty much represents Gordon's ceiling.

jmoney2584
01-21-2008, 05:58 PM
Nice points, but Gordon can rebound just as much as Wade when needed.

Wade didn't have a DJ white on his team locking down the inside to the degree he does when Wade was playing at Marquette...he had Travis Diener...

Gordon doesn't HAVE to be a rebounder from the guard position because he plays along DJ and JaMarcus Ellis who does the majority or the rebounding for the backcourt at 7.4 rebounds a game and almost 5 assists. Gordon is a good passer as well, capable of those same numbers, but that isn't his position on THIS IU team.

EJ will play a lot bigger than Arenas does.

Since86
01-21-2008, 06:01 PM
How exactly are you comparing the atheticism between Gordon and Wade?

Ron Artest isn't that great of an athlete, at all, yet he has a career steal average of 2.1.

You do realize that Troy Bell, the same Troy Bell that didn't even make the league at any point, was deemed the best athlete in the 2003 draft? Above DWade, above LeBron.

He's not a freak of nature athlete. He was ranked 14th in his class.

I don't think it's his athleticism that sets him apart, but his ability to finish around the rim. He will go over people quite a bit, but more often than not he's able to hit the tough layup not because of how high he jumps or how fast he gets there, but because of his body control in the air and his ability to absorb contact.

Both players get to the ft line a lot more than most guards, which is why the comparison exists for me atleast.

Rajah Brown
01-21-2008, 06:24 PM
I agree that Wade is a very good comparison. But Wade had a mid-range
game at Marquette and has one now. My point wasn't that the lack of
one would keep Gordon from being a good to very good NBA player.
But that to be great (at least offensively), he'd need to develop one.

I imagine that he eventually will.

ChicagoPacer
01-21-2008, 08:36 PM
Nice points, but Gordon can rebound just as much as Wade when needed.

Wade didn't have a DJ white on his team locking down the inside to the degree he does when Wade was playing at Marquette...he had Travis Diener...

Gordon doesn't HAVE to be a rebounder from the guard position because he plays along DJ and JaMarcus Ellis who does the majority or the rebounding for the backcourt at 7.4 rebounds a game and almost 5 assists. Gordon is a good passer as well, capable of those same numbers, but that isn't his position on THIS IU team.

EJ will play a lot bigger than Arenas does.

Gordon hasn't proven that he can rebound as well as Wade at any level he has played to date, so we can't say that he can do it "when needed." He has not done it in any IU game to date at Wade's average rate his first year at Marquette, and I'm pretty sure IU could have used his rebounding in a couple of those games. (Diener is a small guard, not a PF or C, by the way so the comparison to White isn't applicable).

He didn't rebound at North Central as well as Wade did at Marquette. No DJ White was at North Central to take his rebounds and Gordon was presumably playing against inferior athletes.

Gordon also doesn't rebound as well in college as Wade does in the NBA with Shaquille O'Neal as his DJ White.

A player's per minute production will get compressed for each level up the ladder he climbs. And it's pretty safe to say that Gordon isn't going to suddenly become a 5 rpg and 5 apg game in the NBA. He might hit that assist level if he can slide over to PG.

It is a very steep climb for a 6-3 to 6-5 guy to make the NBA as a shooting guard, and there aren't a lot of good examples out there from the last 10 or so years:

Apart from Wade and Arenas, the next best of the bunch are Larry Hughes, Steve Francis, Bonzi Wells, and Jamal Crawford.

Hughes 23.7/5.7/2.7 as a frosh per 36
Francis 19.9/5.3/5.3
Wells 19.2/7.4/3.4
Crawford 17.6/3.0/4.8

Robertmto
01-21-2008, 09:37 PM
They do not play the same, and I'll show you why:

Look at Gordon per 36 minutes this year:

24.7 pts, 3.6 rebs, 2.5 ast, 4.0 turnovers, 1.3 stl, 0.7 blks

Now Wade his first year per 36 minutes:

22.0 pts, 8.1 reb, 4.2 ast, 3.7 turnovers, 3.0 stl, 1.4 blocks


Scoring and shooting: advantage Gordon.

Everything else: advantage Wade. Especially rebounding.

Wade has longer arms, is more athletic, and as a result plays "bigger" than Gordon. The proof is in the rebounds, steal, and block numbers. You can argue that Gordon faces better competition, but that wouldn't be correct either. These averages are for Wade's full season, while Gordon's #s are weighted heavily toward pre-conference. IU did not have a strong pre-conference schedule this year. What Gordon has on Wade at similar career stages is that Gordon is much more of a finished product offensively. Wade had the bigger upside due to the things already mentioned.

If you want to compare him to someone most similar who happens to be successful in the NBA, pick Gilbert Arenas.

Gordon 24.7 pts, 3.6 rebs, 2.5 ast, 4.0 turnovers, 1.3 stl, 0.7 blks
Arenas 17.3 pts, 4.6 reb, 2.4 ast, 2.9 turnovers, 2.3 stl, 0.3 blks

Gordon is basically a more offensively developed Arenas at this stage. And if you recall, Arenas struggled his first two years in the league. Gordon may not, but I would argue that Arenas really came around offensively and he pretty much represents Gordon's ceiling.

Sorry Eric cant rebound at 6'4, i know i want my best scorer in there jockeying with people 8 inches taller and 100 pounds heavier:rolleyes:

Also lets look at the fact that DWade played without a dominant big man gettign double doubles every game.

And I'd like PROOF that Wade has longer arms, honestly


I agree that Wade is a very good comparison. But Wade had a mid-range
game at Marquette and has one now. My point wasn't that the lack of
one would keep Gordon from being a good to very good NBA player.
But that to be great (at least offensively), he'd need to develop one.

I imagine that he eventually will.

And Gordon has a way better long range game

ChicagoPacer
01-21-2008, 10:04 PM
Sorry Eric cant rebound at 6'4, i know i want my best scorer in there jockeying with people 8 inches taller and 100 pounds heavier:rolleyes:

Also lets look at the fact that DWade played without a dominant big man gettign double doubles every game.

And I'd like PROOF that Wade has longer arms, honestly

And Gordon has a way better long range game

Exactly. They're not that similar after all.

By the way Wade's wingspan is nearly 6-11. That is freakishly long for a guy who is 6-4. http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/2003_draft/Players/wade.shtml

I can't tell you where Gordon is in comparison. It's been said he plays a little long for his height too, but it is highly unlikely it is in Wade's territory.

Bball
01-21-2008, 10:28 PM
I only have my eyes to go by, but Eric Gordon just doesn't look 6-4 to me. Maybe he is, but (besides the fact those numbers are normally misrepresented) I just don't see it and that is against college players where there are plenty more 6-0, 6-1 guys playing than in the NBA.

-Bball

jmoney2584
01-22-2008, 12:02 AM
Gordon hasn't proven that he can rebound as well as Wade at any level he has played to date, so we can't say that he can do it "when needed." He has not done it in any IU game to date at Wade's average rate his first year at Marquette, and I'm pretty sure IU could have used his rebounding in a couple of those games. (Diener is a small guard, not a PF or C, by the way so the comparison to White isn't applicable).

He didn't rebound at North Central as well as Wade did at Marquette. No DJ White was at North Central to take his rebounds and Gordon was presumably playing against inferior athletes.

Gordon also doesn't rebound as well in college as Wade does in the NBA with Shaquille O'Neal as his DJ White.

A player's per minute production will get compressed for each level up the ladder he climbs. And it's pretty safe to say that Gordon isn't going to suddenly become a 5 rpg and 5 apg game in the NBA. He might hit that assist level if he can slide over to PG.

It is a very steep climb for a 6-3 to 6-5 guy to make the NBA as a shooting guard, and there aren't a lot of good examples out there from the last 10 or so years:

Apart from Wade and Arenas, the next best of the bunch are Larry Hughes, Steve Francis, Bonzi Wells, and Jamal Crawford.

Hughes 23.7/5.7/2.7 as a frosh per 36
Francis 19.9/5.3/5.3
Wells 19.2/7.4/3.4
Crawford 17.6/3.0/4.8

Well he is definitely going to be a better scorer than Hughes, a better team guy than Francis, better slasher and distributer than wells, and more of a 3pt threat than Crawford. He is nothing like those guys.

Also yea he is 6'4, but at 220lbs, that contributes to his STRENGTH when taking it to the basket. Body control enables him to get his shot off after contact better than the four afore mentioned knuckleheads.

To atest to the fact that he can rebound WHEN needed, look at the crunch time during the Minnesota game, he pulled down 2 big late half rebounds in the middle of the pack OVER bigger defenders. Unfortunately each rebound he gets doesn't have a "clutch rating next to it". In sampsons offense Gordon is the first man gone on the fast-break opportunity (as he should be), he isn't anywhere near the rebound. Notice earlier i stated that this is where he stands on THIS IU team. I guarantee if Sampson asked Gordon to go get more rebounds then he would. It isn't his fault he is the most prolific scoring guard in the nation and that SCORING is his main responsibility and has been his whole career. If Gordon were playing for the pistons would he be asked to get a lot of rebounds? Do you knows what Rip Hamilton average in rebounds per game? 3.3....do you know why? Because as a SG on THAT squad it is not his role, he doesn't get involved in the rebound scrum beneath the bucket because he is needed to lead the breaks and get in the open floor where he is most effective, it isn't conducive within the Pistons offensive schemes to have Richard Hamilton battling for boards..and don't say "well rip hamilton is small and skinny", bc thats a knock on his size and if you can excuse it for him based on that then you can excuse it on Gordon too.

Yes it may be a "steep climb" for a man of his stature to make it at SG in this league, but if you notice that MOST SG's of his size play both PG and SG and he will adapt to that as it comes, right now he is the best Scoring Guard in the nation who plays damn respectable defense and until he stops doing those TWO things of which he was brought in to do I will never complain.

ChicagoPacer
01-22-2008, 01:06 AM
I'm not trying to tell you guys he won't be a very good player. What I'm saying is that for now, he is a fairly one dimensional player. He's the best in the country at that one dimension, scoring, but he hasn't shown the versatility at the college ranks of the other guys I've listed. Because of this, I wouldn't describe him as the next anyone.

He's 6-4 (maybe, we'll know what his true height during pre-draft workouts) and it's nice to point to the best 6-4 shooting guard in the last 20 years (Wade) as what he'll look like at the pro level. It's sunshiny speculation, and it's a fun thought, but all of this is awfully unfair to this kid.

Kind of like how every 6-6ish small forward/shooting guard in the college game with athleticism was the next Jordan, because that was the gold standard for those types of players. See: Carter, Stackhouse, Hill, Hardaway, and a bunch of lesser players (Dennis Hopson, anyone?).

Or how every 6-8 to 6-10 white guy who plays power forward/small forward in college with good passing ability is the next Larry Bird. See: Keith Van Horn, Adam Morrison, Toni Kukoc, and the Pacers very own Mike Dunleavy.

Remember the last big time college scorer to come from an Indiana high school? It was Glenn Robinson. Great college career. Naismith award his second season. NCAA scoring leader. #1 pick. A couple trips to the All-Star game in the NBA, but he was never what you'd call a top ten player. If you were to build a team around him, your team would never be a conference finals contender. This includes his time in the league pre-injuries.

So many things have to go perfectly right for Gordon to even be mentioned as an afterthought to Wade. The kid should consider himself lucky if he becomes the next Mitch Richmond.

jmoney2584
01-22-2008, 01:45 AM
He's 6-4 (maybe, we'll know what his true height during pre-draft workouts) and it's nice to point to the best 6-4 shooting guard in the last 20 years (Wade) as what he'll look like at the pro level. It's sunshiny speculation, and it's a fun thought, but all of this is awfully unfair to this kid.

Kind of like how every 6-6ish small forward/shooting guard in the college game with athleticism was the next Jordan, because that was the gold standard for those types of players. See: Carter, Stackhouse, Hill, Hardaway, and a bunch of lesser players (Dennis Hopson, anyone?).

Or how every 6-8 to 6-10 white guy who plays power forward/small forward in college with good passing ability is the next Larry Bird. See: Keith Van Horn, Adam Morrison, Toni Kukoc, and the Pacers very own Mike Dunleavy.

All good points, however, the abilities of all the "6-6sih" players would have continued had not ALL of them had injury riddled careers.

All the white guys listed never had the shooting of bird except MAYBE morrison...but again huge injury right now.

I'm not saying he is the SAVIOR for our team, but I think he could be dynamite in this offensive system and could be an intricate part to compliment everything else we pull in along the way. Not only from a talent standpoint, but from a PR perspective it is an absolute no-brainer...it's a can't miss for attendence for at least his first several years IF he were to not pan out. If he did then having a superstar Indy native would always be a huge part of fan draw.

BTW I'm not ruffled by all this, I just relish in chances to debate this type of thing with knowledgeable people and i appreciate your debating.

Since86
01-22-2008, 12:40 PM
I'm not trying to tell you guys he won't be a very good player. What I'm saying is that for now, he is a fairly one dimensional player. He's the best in the country at that one dimension, scoring, but he hasn't shown the versatility at the college ranks of the other guys I've listed. Because of this, I wouldn't describe him as the next anyone.

Which one demension does he score at? Is he a jump shooter or is he a slasher?

One demensional my ***.

He's only #3 in the nation in FTA, as a freshman shooting guard. You think he's getting fouled shooting 3s or something? Jump shooters don't routinely get to the FT line, there's a reason why EJ does. He will push the fastbreak with the ball even when he doesn't have numbers because of his confidence to get to the rim, or get to the line.

I can see if you want to knock him on his ball handling, because he isn't a finesse ball handler. He's a power dribbler. He pounds the ball into the floor and just out muscles you up top to get where he's going. He doesn't try and juke you out of your shoes because he know's he can knock you out of them.

He's not even close to being just a jump shooter or just a slasher, each of which would constitute him as being one demensional.

ChicagoPacer
01-22-2008, 02:53 PM
There's no reasoning on this thread. Fine. He's the reincarnation of Dwayne Wade, Earl Monroe, Jesus Christ, and Buddha all rolled into one. If we want to set expectations, let's not make them borderline ridiculous, let's have fun and make them really ridiculous.

Since86
01-22-2008, 04:00 PM
No one has said he's going to have the career that DWade has had so far, atleast I'm not aware of it. There is a COMPARISON to how they play the game. Comparing the two doesn't mean he'll turn out to be just as good, better, or even worse.

Will Galen
01-22-2008, 04:14 PM
There's no reasoning on this thread. Fine. He's the reincarnation of Dwayne Wade, Earl Monroe, Jesus Christ, and Buddha all rolled into one. If we want to set expectations, let's not make them borderline ridiculous, let's have fun and make them really ridiculous.

People do get silly with IU players. Just think how they would boo if the Pacers got the #1 and took someone else. If Rush keeps it up, I think the Pacers would take Rose. They might anyway if they get #1 or #2.

croz24
01-22-2008, 04:32 PM
it's not like ej wasn't the #2 rated high school player in the nation...it's not like he's top 5 in the nation in fta's and ftm's...it's not like he's about to set the BIG 10 freshman scoring record with range out to half court and incredible athleticism...don't know how people can just look past the numbers he's putting up against some very good competition...

Will Galen
01-22-2008, 04:43 PM
Why are you guys calling him EJ?

Gyron
01-22-2008, 04:49 PM
Thats his nick name....from what I've seen and heard.

croz24
01-22-2008, 04:53 PM
eric gordon jr...ej...eric jr...

Robertmto
01-22-2008, 05:45 PM
There's no reasoning on this thread. Fine. He's the reincarnation of Dwayne Wade, Earl Monroe, Jesus Christ, and Buddha all rolled into one. If we want to set expectations, let's not make them borderline ridiculous, let's have fun and make them really ridiculous.

Sounds about right. Go ahead and throw in Muhammad too

jmoney2584
01-22-2008, 05:59 PM
Er-ic-Gor-don *clap-clap-clapclapclap*

Will Galen
01-22-2008, 06:08 PM
Thats his nick name....from what I've seen and heard.


eric gordon jr...ej...eric jr...


Thanks guys! I went to ESPN's IU site an came away thinking everyone was talking about Jarmarcus Ellis. I wondered what he had to do with anything.

Jarmarcus Ellis = J.E. isn't really E.J., but I was reading the box score just looking for those intials and thought ESPN had the last name first. If I would have looked futher, like to E. Gordon, I would have known that was wrong, but I didn't. (duh)

Anyway, I gathered from a post by Croz that he was talking about Gordon, so I asked. Thanks again!

ChicagoPacer
01-22-2008, 06:55 PM
Sounds about right. Go ahead and throw in Muhammad too

Prophet or boxer? Might as well throw them both in. Ali might be a good comparison anyway, he is 6-3 you know. :)

Robertmto
01-22-2008, 09:49 PM
Prophet or boxer? Might as well throw them both in. Ali might be a good comparison anyway, he is 6-3 you know. :)

yuh both is good. Go ahead and toss in Frasier too, both again....

jmoney2584
01-24-2008, 12:26 PM
Picked this up browsing this morning..seems even Bob has gotten the idea right.....

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080124/COLUMNISTS01/801240464/1069/SPORTS0601




Bob Kravitz

Enjoy Gordon because he's too good for college


BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- A brief memo to Eric Gordon:


Farewell, E.J.
Good knowing you.
Thanks for the memories.
All the best in the NBA.
Regards,
The IU Basketball Community

When Eric Gordon arrived here from North Central High School a few months back, there was almost no question that the uber-freshman was going to be a one-and-done proposition.
Now, 18 games into his freshman season, six games into his first and likely last Big Ten season, there is absolutely no question that he will be gone almost as soon as he arrived.

Not to be a buzzkill but, hey, the truth is the truth.
Why would he stick around? To take another semester's worth of required classes? To increase his draft stock from the top five to, say, the top two?
The bottom line is, if he's going to be a top-five pick -- and yes, he's going to be a top-five pick -- there's no reason to risk his body and his future.

Imagine if Shaun Livingston, the Los Angeles Clippers' young guard, had suffered his devastating knee injury while still in college?
What if Greg Oden, whose example can't be lost on Gordon, had been forced to undergo microfracture surgery before entering his sophomore year at Ohio State?
The moment IU coach Kelvin Sampson joined the recruiting fray and snatched Gordon out from under the still-steaming Illini -- they're 1-6 in conference, by the way -- he knew his young two-guard was likely going the Oden route.
"It's the nature of the beast,'' Sampson said earlier.
If you saw the first half of the Hoosiers' 65-43 victory over Iowa on Wednesday night, you saw Gordon do what he's been doing all season.

There is an easy, almost effortless grace about his game, whether he's knocking down jumpers from NBA 3-point range or navigating his way to the basket. And there is this: He plays defense. Of all the things he did in this game against the overmatched Hawkeyes, the most impressive was the way he took control defensively.
There are a lot of freshmen who show up in college and know nothing about the game beyond scoring. This kid isn't like a lot of freshmen. He gets it. Like Mike Conley and Oden, two other Indy prodigies who've gone from high school to college to the NBA in the blink of an eye, Gordon has a through-the-roof basketball IQ.
And there's no sense of entitlement, no brooding, no look-at-me posturing. If Gordon has an inner diva, he's not yet brandished it. In the past, IU has had high-profile freshmen show up and immediately create issues with the upperclassmen. There has been none of that with Gordon.

The only blemish in his game is the turnovers. He's had some high-turnover nights. Didn't say it was a major blemish, though.
So how good are the Hoosiers? Really? Ask again one week from now.
So far, IU is 17-1 and 6-0 in the conference. They also haven't played anybody. They beat Kentucky in a down year. They beat Southern Illinois during a year when the Salukis have played below expectations. And they've wiped up on the dregs of the Big Ten, beating Iowa twice, along with Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota and Penn State.
Now it gets interesting: a nationally televised home game Saturday against Connecticut. A Jan. 31 game at co-Big Ten leader Wisconsin. By then, we'll have a better idea.

What we do know, though, is Gordon has lived up to expectations and beyond, and paired with D.J. White, has given IU one of the top one-two punches in the country.

If early impressions are to be trusted, this is the most athletically gifted IU team in a decade or more.
And they better take advantage of their short time with Gordon and compete for the national title -- the way Ohio State did during Conley's and Oden's sole season.

In the end, Gordon may not be the only Hoosier to get drafted in the first round. White, who was almost uniformly thought to be a high second-round choice, has remade his game and turned into a double-double machine -- even a possible first-rounder.

There's a lot to like about this team: Jamarcus Ellis is a glue guy, a young player who is capable of and willing to do whatever it takes to win. Lance Stemler is another high-IQ player. Jordan Crawford is wise beyond his years. Armon Bassett is a bloodless scorer. Mike White and DeAndre Thomas are wide bodies -- maybe a little too wide in Thomas' case. If A.J. Ratliff can ever find his way back into IU's rotation, the Hoosiers are going to be very dangerous this spring.

Oh, and by the way . . .
See you in the NBA, E.J. How about the Pacers? Maybe?

Bob Kravitz is a columnist for The Indianapolis Star. Call him at (317) 444-6643 or e-mail bob.kravitz@indystar.com. Listen to Bob and Eddie White 3-6 p.m. weekdays on WFNI-1070 AM.

jmoney2584
01-24-2008, 02:50 PM
I'm hoping that more local media starts hinting at this so that the more TPTB will get the hint.

Ownagedood
01-24-2008, 02:59 PM
Sort of. He will be ok.. Certainly not as good as he is in College or was in high school, but by no means will he be ran over and beat up by the other players in the league. I think he should wait one more year to improve a little more, but if he did come out this year, I think he would do fine.

Robertmto
01-25-2008, 01:31 PM
Sort of. He will be ok.. Certainly not as good as he is in College or was in high school, but by no means will he be ran over and beat up by the other players in the league. I think he should wait one more year to improve a little more, but if he did come out this year, I think he would do fine.

improve what?

jmoney2584
01-25-2008, 02:29 PM
The game tomorrow vs. UConn will be a big. Everyone knocks his size and how he can compete at his stature, but tomorrow he faces 7'3" Thabeet (also a potential lotto pick). UConn also has another guy who is pretty F'ing huge, let's see how he performs tomorrow against legit NBA size.

Game is on at 1pm on CBS.