PDA

View Full Version : Pacers/Warriors Post Game 39: Can't stick it to the Dubs



Shade
01-13-2008, 11:30 PM
What can you say? It's like a script.

Doddage
01-13-2008, 11:31 PM
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr align="center"><td> http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nba/teams/1/80x60/ind.gif (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/ind) (17-22)
</td> <td width="370"> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="ysptblbdr2"> <table class="ysptblclbg3" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="ysptblbdr2"><td colspan="15" height="1"></td></tr> <tr align="center" bgcolor="#dedec6"> <td rowspan="5" class="ysptblbdr2" width="1"></td> <td height="18" width="10"></td> <td></td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores" width="25">1</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores" width="25">2</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores" width="25">3</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores" width="25">4</td> <td rowspan="5" class="yspwhitebg" width="1"></td> <td class="yspscores total" align="right" width="35">Total</td> <td class="yspscores" width="65"></td> <td rowspan="5" class="ysptblbdr2" width="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="yspwhitebg"><td colspan="13" height="1"></td></tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="center"> <td height="23" width="10"></td> <td class="yspscores team" align="left"> Indiana (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/ind) </td> <td class="yspscores">34</td> <td class="yspscores">20</td> <td class="yspscores">22</td> <td class="yspscores">25</td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right"> 101 </td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right">Final </td> </tr> <tr class="yspwhitebg"> <td colspan="2"></td> <td colspan="8" height="1"></td> <td colspan="2" class="ysptblclbg6"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="center"> <td height="23" width="10">http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/gr/or_arrow.gif</td> <td class="yspscores team" align="left"> Golden State (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/gsw) </td> <td class="yspscores">19</td> <td class="yspscores">26</td> <td class="yspscores">28</td> <td class="yspscores">33</td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right"> 106 </td> <td class="ysptblclbg6 total" align="right"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr2"> <td colspan="15" height="1"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td> http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nba/teams/1/80x60/gsw.gif (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/gsw) (22-16)
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" height="7"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td height="7"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="stats" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"> <td colspan="16" class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> Indiana </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl player" align="left" height="18" width="17%"> Name</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%"></td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Min</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">FG</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">3Pt</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">FT</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">+/-</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Off</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Reb</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Ast</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">TO</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Stl</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">BS</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">BA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Pts </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> J. Tinsley (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3528)</td> <td class="player"> G </td> <td>37:48</td> <td>3-8</td> <td>1-3</td> <td>1-2</td> <td> +7 </td> <td>0</td> <td>5</td> <td>11</td> <td>5</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>8 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> K. Rush (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3618)</td> <td class="player"> G </td> <td>23:24</td> <td>2-7</td> <td>2-4</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> -5 </td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>5</td> <td>6 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> J. O'Neal (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3120)</td> <td class="player"> C </td> <td>36:46</td> <td>11-19</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>5-7</td> <td> +1 </td> <td>1</td> <td>9</td> <td>1</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>6</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>27 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> M. Dunleavy (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3601)</td> <td class="player"> F </td> <td>41:17</td> <td>6-10</td> <td>2-4</td> <td>4-5</td> <td> +2 </td> <td>1</td> <td>10</td> <td>7</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>18 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> D. Granger (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3943)</td> <td class="player"> F </td> <td>37:59</td> <td>6-13</td> <td>2-5</td> <td>6-6</td> <td> -2 </td> <td>1</td> <td>8</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>20 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> M. Daniels (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3764)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>26:44</td> <td>6-8</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> -9 </td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>4</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>12 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> S. Williams (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4145)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>14:36</td> <td>1-3</td> <td>1-1</td> <td>1-2</td> <td> -1 </td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>2</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>4 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> T. Murphy (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3524)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>11:14</td> <td>1-3</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>2-2</td> <td> -6 </td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>4 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> T. Diener (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3964)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>10:12</td> <td>1-5</td> <td>0-4</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> -12 </td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> J. Foster (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3344)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td class="dnp" colspan="14" align="center">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> D. Harrison (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3846)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td class="dnp" colspan="14" align="center">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> A. Owens (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4048)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td class="dnp" colspan="14" align="center">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr3"> <td colspan="16" height="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="right"> <td class="sum" align="left" height="18"> Totals</td> <td></td> <td></td> <td>37-76</td> <td>8-21</td> <td>19-24</td> <td></td> <td>4</td> <td>43</td> <td>28</td> <td>23</td> <td>9</td> <td>10</td> <td>2</td> <td>22</td> <td>101 </td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td class="sum" align="left" height="18"> Percentages:</td> <td colspan="2"></td> <td>.487</td> <td>.381</td> <td>.792</td> <td></td> <td colspan="9" class="team-rebounds" align="left">Team Rebounds: 9 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td height="7"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="stats" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"> <td colspan="16" class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> Golden State </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl player" align="left" height="18" width="17%"> Name</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%"></td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Min</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">FG</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">3Pt</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">FT</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">+/-</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Off</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Reb</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Ast</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">TO</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">Stl</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">BS</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">BA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="5%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Pts </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> M. Ellis (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3966)</td> <td class="player"> G </td> <td>41:51</td> <td>13-22</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>3-3</td> <td> +5 </td> <td>2</td> <td>8</td> <td>4</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>29 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> B. Davis (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3326)</td> <td class="player"> G </td> <td>39:35</td> <td>10-16</td> <td>2-6</td> <td>5-11</td> <td> +4 </td> <td>1</td> <td>7</td> <td>6</td> <td>4</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>27 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> A. Biedrins (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3828)</td> <td class="player"> C </td> <td>13:19</td> <td>1-4</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> +4 </td> <td>1</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>3</td> <td>2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> S. Jackson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3210)</td> <td class="player"> F </td> <td>42:32</td> <td>4-15</td> <td>0-4</td> <td>1-5</td> <td> +4 </td> <td>4</td> <td>7</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>2</td> <td>9 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> A. Harrington (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3268)</td> <td class="player"> F </td> <td>27:47</td> <td>6-19</td> <td>1-8</td> <td>1-2</td> <td> -19 </td> <td>3</td> <td>6</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>2</td> <td>14 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> M. Pietrus (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3714)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>23:09</td> <td>1-5</td> <td>1-5</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> 0 </td> <td>0</td> <td>5</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>3 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> K. Azubuike (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4030)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>17:27</td> <td>3-8</td> <td>2-4</td> <td>3-3</td> <td> +5 </td> <td>3</td> <td>5</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>2</td> <td>11 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> A. Croshere (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3182)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>15:55</td> <td>2-6</td> <td>2-4</td> <td>1-2</td> <td> +10 </td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>7 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> M. Barnes (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3643)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>11:18</td> <td>1-2</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>0-0</td> <td> +9 </td> <td>1</td> <td>4</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> C.J. Watson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4354)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td>7:04</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>2-2</td> <td> +3 </td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> P. O'Bryant (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4137)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td class="dnp" colspan="14" align="center">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td class="player" align="left"> B. Wright (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4286)</td> <td class="player"> </td> <td class="dnp" colspan="14" align="center">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr3"> <td colspan="16" height="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="right"> <td class="sum" align="left" height="18"> Totals</td> <td></td> <td></td> <td>41-98</td> <td>8-33</td> <td>16-28</td> <td></td> <td>16</td> <td>50</td> <td>21</td> <td>14</td> <td>13</td> <td>2</td> <td>10</td> <td>21</td> <td>106 </td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td class="sum" align="left" height="18"> Percentages:</td> <td colspan="2"></td> <td>.418</td> <td>.242</td> <td>.571</td> <td></td> <td colspan="9" class="team-rebounds" align="left">Team Rebounds: 12 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td height="7"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"> <td class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> Game Info</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="yspnotice"> Technical Fouls: Indiana - D. Granger 1, T. Diener 1. Golden State - S. Jackson 1, M. Barnes 1</td></tr></tbody></table>

granger33
01-13-2008, 11:34 PM
They should have a new stat in box score.

% of time winning.

I'd like to see that for pacer games.

Unclebuck
01-13-2008, 11:34 PM
I don't agree with you, although I'm really not sure what specifically you are referring to. Are you refering to a blown lead. The warriors are never out of a game, and the second half or at least the last 14 minutes or so was very close.

Pacers played pretty well tonight, just not good enough.

Happy that Mike played well - just wish he could have gotten more shots in the last 3 minutes, because he had it going.

Pacers couldn't stop Ellis and Davis - and it really was as simple at that

LoneGranger33
01-13-2008, 11:34 PM
Jermaine played his ****ing heart out, and I don't want anyone telling me otherwise.

LoneGranger33
01-13-2008, 11:35 PM
Somebody please go back and count the number of times we've lost a lead of 15 or more.

tora tora
01-13-2008, 11:36 PM
Jermaine played his ****ing heart out, and I don't want anyone telling me otherwise.

The only problem with that is that the Pacers will lose 99.9% of the time when he does.

Shade
01-13-2008, 11:38 PM
Jermaine played his ****ing heart out, and I don't want anyone telling me otherwise.

Yeah, and I'm not going to take that away from him.

But do you know what?

He didn't block out Biedrins at the end. And it cost them.

Doddage
01-13-2008, 11:39 PM
Shade stole my initial post thunder ;)

tora tora
01-13-2008, 11:40 PM
Am I the only one who thinks that Jeff Foster is way too valuable to get a dnp? Is he injured or something?

LoneGranger33
01-13-2008, 11:41 PM
I hate when the Pacers are better than their record.

Stephen Jackson
01-13-2008, 11:41 PM
Good game Pacers.

Young
01-13-2008, 11:42 PM
It seems that the Pacers build big leads but loses them. This comes to no suprise.

We play at a fast pace. More shot attempts we get. Your gonna get a nice lead if you can have a nice stretch of ball.

But we don't have the talent to keep a big lead. And we can't close out games so we lose.

I don't expect to blow teams out by 20 because we aren't 20 points better than others. However I expect to close the game out.

Jermaine had a great game. Give him all the credit in the world. He is not the reason why we lost this game.

Mike was excellant as well. I loved it when he hit that 3 towards the end of the game to shut up the crowd.

I really am confused at what Jim was doing there at the end. What kind of play was that? I mean throw it into Jermaine and pass to whoever for the 3! Great.

But hey games never come down to the last play. From tipoff to the end of the game everyone from the players to Jim messed up. We just couldn't overcome all the mistakes tonight.

AesopRockOn
01-13-2008, 11:44 PM
Yeah, and I'm not going to take that away from him.

But do you know what?

He didn't block out Biedrins at the end. And it cost them.

In JO's defense, he was (or half) blocking Barnes and Biedrins out. Someone else (Danny or Dun) had to be in there scrapping.

I think that in these games with very good guards, especially point guards, Owens needs to play or we need to bring someone in who can play D on at least some plays. Jamaal and Diener aren't going to cut it. Their penetration leads to our forwards' displacement on the glass.

Crappy loss.

LoneGranger33
01-13-2008, 11:45 PM
http://www.relationshiptalk.net/images/brokenheart1.jpg

Shade
01-13-2008, 11:45 PM
Shade stole my initial post thunder ;)

Next time, be a minute faster. ;)

I did let you keep your thread title, though.

Shade
01-13-2008, 11:48 PM
In JO's defense, he was (or half) blocking Barnes and Biedrins out. Someone else (Danny or Dun) had to be in there scrapping.

I think that in these games with very good guards, especially point guards, Owens needs to play or we need to bring someone in who can play D on at least some plays. Jamaal and Diener aren't going to cut it. Their penetration leads to our forwards' displacement on the glass.

Crappy loss.

But, how can that be? Diener is so fast that he can reverse the earth's axis and turn back time! Surely, mere mortals like Baron Davis and Monta Ellis could NEVER get around Diener! :sarcasm:

Owens wouldn't have done squat out there, either. It's just a weakness of our team.

Shade
01-13-2008, 11:49 PM
http://www.relationshiptalk.net/images/brokenheart1.jpg

That already happened to me earlier today. Didn't think it was possible for it to happen twice in a span of 6 hours. I was wrong.

ajbry
01-13-2008, 11:49 PM
I just learned this, but Jack missed shootaround today and was a game-time decision with the flu. That explains a lot.

Shade
01-13-2008, 11:54 PM
I just learned this, but Jack missed shootaround today and was a game-time decision with the flu. That explains a lot.

Not really. A better explanation is that he's Stephen Jackson.

Which means that he'll probably blow up at Conseco (possibly figuratively AND literally).

granger33
01-13-2008, 11:55 PM
I just learned this, but Jack missed shootaround today and was a game-time decision with the flu. That explains a lot.

explains nothing.

he played, he was fine to go. Just trying to make excuses necause he had a terrible game.

ajbry
01-13-2008, 11:56 PM
I don't dispute that either, dude has sucked for about 2 straight weeks now. There's nothing good he did tonight and he's certainly well aware of it.

Doddage
01-13-2008, 11:57 PM
Next time, be a minute faster. ;)

I did let you keep your thread title, though.
Double touche...

If nothing else, this game did establish that JO owns Al Harrington.

indygeezer
01-13-2008, 11:57 PM
So...what was the deal on the DNP for Jeff Foster???

LoneGranger33
01-13-2008, 11:58 PM
"The flu?! Mother****er better have had ebola!"



What movie?

Naptown_Seth
01-14-2008, 12:03 AM
What can you say? It's like a script.
Wait a second, does the WGA realize someone has crossed the line. I thought we were making the season up as it goes along for now.

Frankly this game went way better than I expected. Granted I have low expectations.


Jermaine played his ****ing heart out, and I don't want anyone telling me otherwise.
I want someone to tell me that every time JO hit the floor the Pacers got killed and every time Diener was out there they kicked butt. The +/- is just an illusion created by keeping track of the actual score, not a real stat. ;)



Yeah, and I'm not going to take that away from him.

But do you know what?

He didn't block out Biedrins at the end. And it cost them.
Yes, because that was a 15 point play. And in no way did Tins/Diener getting beat to the rim like a rented mule by Davis/Ellis have any impact on the outcome. How about the block outs prior to that, I mean at least Biedrens is a solid rebounder with tons of size, how does Ellis get a flying jump to the rim free of charge?

OnlyPacersLeft
01-14-2008, 12:05 AM
wowwww foster didn't play at all!? no wonder we got beat on the damn glass all night!

Bball
01-14-2008, 12:12 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Jeff Foster is way too valuable to get a dnp? Is he injured or something?

I'm waiting to hear Unclebuck's take on it...

-Bball

QuickRelease
01-14-2008, 12:14 AM
So...what was the deal on the DNP for Jeff Foster???

M-Boyle said he was dressed and able to play. He's just a casualty of JOB's small lineup. I absolutely hate how Jeff gets screwed around. I personally feel that it is absolute crap that Murphy gets time over him.

LoneGranger33
01-14-2008, 12:14 AM
Second night without a legitimate low-post threat, especially since Don Nelson abuses Andris Biedrins.

Young
01-14-2008, 12:15 AM
wowwww foster didn't play at all!? no wonder we got beat on the damn glass all night!

If I remember they had a 50-43 rebounding edge. The problem was that they got some key offensive rebounds at the end.

I don't really get Jim not playing Jeff. Jeff has showed more than Troy. And we are going to be playing small ball which is fine but Jeff is better for it. I mean he will fight, and scrap, and rebound. We don't need Troy out there shooting 3s. The other 4 out there with him can do that.

Would be a good question for Jim's next show as to why Jeff isn't getting minutes.

Hoffmann 21/7
01-14-2008, 12:17 AM
Good Game pacers.

Couldnt see the game but it seemed like O'Neal had a great game.

ajbry
01-14-2008, 12:35 AM
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080114/capt.697a373f285d42dfbea895714f8ff41b.pacers_warri ors_basketball_oas108.jpg

Caption this.

It's immediately after JT misses the "drawn-up" three at the end that would've tied it.

tora tora
01-14-2008, 12:44 AM
Tinsley - Did you see the rack on Stacy Paetz? I could just....

CableKC
01-14-2008, 12:45 AM
I have seen both games where we went small ball....and I can tell you that I don't like it that much. So far, we have played 2 teams that we could use a Small Ball lineup against.....but I think that the lack of Foster in the Frontline really leaves our interior defense lacking. JONeal can oly do so much....especially if he plays for 30+ minutes and is ( likely ) tired by the 4th QTR. For example, at the end, when JONeal was trying to make it back....the Warriors pushed the ball up quickly and ( I think ) Barnes quickly took the ball to the hoop.

I think that it made a HUGE difference that Barnes and Biedrins were kept out of the majority of the game until the end. Although Biedrins was being owned by JONeal at first......he had fresh legs to give JONeal problems at the end who appeared tired by the end.

I don't think that Small Ball lost the game for us....but as we use it more.....I think that we are going to see the same problems that the Warriors have seen when it comes to defense and offense....but multiplied by 2.

CableKC
01-14-2008, 12:48 AM
If I remember they had a 50-43 rebounding edge. The problem was that they got some key offensive rebounds at the end.

I don't really get Jim not playing Jeff. Jeff has showed more than Troy. And we are going to be playing small ball which is fine but Jeff is better for it. I mean he will fight, and scrap, and rebound. We don't need Troy out there shooting 3s. The other 4 out there with him can do that.

Would be a good question for Jim's next show as to why Jeff isn't getting minutes.
Ever since we have gone with "Small Ball", we have gone with a more "offensive" lineup where everyone can shoot the ball. Diener has gotten the nod over Owens...and Murphy has gotten the nod over Foster.

I can see advantages in using Diener....but I simply don't see why Foster can't play at the Center Spot and Murphy playing at the PF spot.

CableKC
01-14-2008, 12:55 AM
I don't know if you could hear it on TV.....but EVERYTIME Dunleavy touched the ball....he was BOOED VERY LOUDLY. At the beginning of the game....he was very passive. He just passed the ball and didn't really seem to get involved on the offensive end until later.

I really hope that when SJax and Harrington return to Conseco...that they get the same treatment from the half-empty stadium.

mb221
01-14-2008, 01:00 AM
Thing is the Indy fans have legit beef with Al and Jack. Jack for the obvious multitude of reasons, and Al for the fact that he trashed the organization after he was traded away. Pretty classless. The only crime MDJ committed against the Warriors fans was not living up to his draft pick, but he was boo'd as bad if not worse than Artest or Jackson were boo'd either of their first games back in Indy.

jeffg-body
01-14-2008, 01:07 AM
I have to wonder why the crowd was just so into booing MDJ. He was nothing but a high class guy while he was there and never said a bad word about the Warrior organization or the fans. My only guess is that it's Oakland fans frustrated from a year of playing russian roulette with QB's.:laugh:

d_c
01-14-2008, 01:10 AM
I just came back from the game. Pretty entertaining for most of it.

A very good game from the Pacers, Dunleavy and Jermaine. A very solid performance from Granger as well.

The Pacers outplayed the Warriors for most of the game. As expected, they did the right thing and packed it in and forced the Warriors to shoot from the outside, which they did poorly for most of the game. They also did a good job of pushing the ball up the floor to create a few open looks after the Warriors scored (essentially giving some of their own medicine).

Jermaine physically isn't what he used to be, but he still looks very effective on help defense. He erased shot after shot. Scorer gave him 6 blocks but it seemed like more. Whenever you guys took him out and put Murphy in at center, it was basically a free lane to the basket for the Warriors. In fact I felt having Murphy in there for a couple stretches in each half is what kept the Warriors in the game. Biedrins has a deep thigh bruise from the game against Memphis and Nellie was careful using him. Jermaine mostly had his way inside, but he forced a few shots in the 2nd half against double/triple teams. He's just never been a great passer out of the post.

What the game came down to was the Warriors getting offensive rebounds (you guys missed Foster here) and forcing turnovers, which they are usually pretty good at.

On the last shot, the Warriors wisened up and kept Granger from getting the open look at the 3, daring Tinsley to shoot it instead. I think Granger is a very solid player with a good looking shot. Judging from just this one game though, he looks like a guy who if I'm playing against would rather force him to put the ball on the floor as opposed to giving him the open look. He's not exactly Clyde Drexler off the dribble when a guy runs at him.

As for the Warriors, they played like garbage most of the night. Jackson played with the flu and he stunk, but he's really stunk it up for a couple weeks now. Really, he's being miscast as a #2 option because the W's don't really have anyone else who can step into that role right now. Overall, he's just not a talented enough guy to take on that much of the offensive load, especially when he's got to expend energy guarding the opposing team's best player every night.

I thought the Warriors really were going to shop Monta Ellis around the trade deadline, but he's upped his game and is proving to be too valuable right now. He's cut down on his turnovers and improved his mid-range game. He was simply too fast and explosive when he got going for the Pacers to handle. Tinsley's flagrant seemed to fire him up.

A good game from the Pacers. Came out looking pretty determined and opened the game with more energy, which is impressive because they were the road team on a back to back. Dunleavy played very well through the boos and silenced the crowd a couple of times with big shots. A good game from him, tho he did miss a pretty key free throw down the stretch. He seemed to get a warm embrace from every one of his Warrior teammates. Good for him.

CableKC
01-14-2008, 01:20 AM
Thing is the Indy fans have legit beef with Al and Jack. Jack for the obvious multitude of reasons, and Al for the fact that he trashed the organization after he was traded away. Pretty classless. The only crime MDJ committed against the Warriors fans was not living up to his draft pick, but he was boo'd as bad if not worse than Artest or Jackson were boo'd either of their first games back in Indy.
Although I am very glad that he put up a VERY QUIET but outstanding 18pts/10reb/7assists on 54% shooting from the field....I really think that the booing really affected his game and how aggressive he would be.

d_c
01-14-2008, 01:20 AM
I have to wonder why the crowd was just so into booing MDJ. He was nothing but a high class guy while he was there and never said a bad word about the Warrior organization or the fans. My only guess is that it's Oakland fans frustrated from a year of playing russian roulette with QB's.:laugh:

The reason Dunleavy is disliked isn't that simple. It's kind of like explaining why Dunleavy was never any good until this year.

First of all, he was high profile coming from Duke (and everyone hates Duke). He was a coach's son. He was the #3 pick. He didn't work for anyone or against anyone in pre-draft camps (Caron Butler was incredibly pissed that Dunleavy went that high w/o working out) but still went high.

When he initially played, he stunk and the team struggled. He was the #3 pick who got outplayed by castoff guys like Brian Cardinal and Earl Boykins. He was seen as the guy with the silver spoon in his mouth who got picked #3 because of his Daddy's name and was getting his lunch money taken away by scrubs who were just trying to scrape by in the league.

And throughout it all, he'd never say "I need to pick it up." If he and the team were stinking, he'd never accept the accountability publicly. He'd basically infer that "Well, I'm playing the game the right way, so don't blame me." He also made a backhanded comment towards Warriors fans after the trade by saying that he was glad he was finally going to a place where fans understood the game (or something very close to those words).

The Summary: Right or wrong, Dunleavy in the Bay Area is viewed as a guy who was made to be important (#3 overall pick), was paid to be important ($45M contract) and wanted to have the status of a guy who was important but didn't want the criticism, expectations and pressure that came along with it.

It's not his fault that he was made to be the #3 overall pick. He shouldn't have gone that high. He's simply not that talented of a guy. Being somewhere else means he no longer has that type of pressure and expectation on him and that's probably the biggest reason he's doing better.

CableKC
01-14-2008, 01:24 AM
I have to wonder why the crowd was just so into booing MDJ. He was nothing but a high class guy while he was there and never said a bad word about the Warrior organization or the fans. My only guess is that it's Oakland fans frustrated from a year of playing russian roulette with QB's.:laugh:
Warrior fans always hated that he underperformed as a Warrior.....they hated that he was inconsistent at times....they hated that he never lived up to being a #3 pick....they hated that he never lived up to the overpaid contract that he was given.

They did boo Murphy....but I think it faded as the game got along.

The only part that I loved was towards the end of the game where we were close....the crowd was standing and screaming "Defense"...and then Dunleavy got the ball and drained a jumpshot...quickly silencing the crowd.

d_c
01-14-2008, 01:32 AM
Warrior fans always hated that he underperformed as a Warrior.....they hated that he was inconsistent at times....they hated that he never lived up to being a #3 pick....they hated that he never lived up to the overpaid contract that he was given.

They did boo Murphy....but I think it faded as the game got along.

The only part that I loved was towards the end of the game where we were close....the crowd was standing and screaming "Defense"...and then Dunleavy got the ball and drained a jumpshot...quickly silencing the crowd.

The main thing is that he underperformed. But on top of that, he kind of gave off the vibe of "It's not my fault because I play the game the right way". He was picked high. A lot was invested in him. Trades were made just to accommodate him. Coaches were hired specifically for him. Lineups were changed just to try to get him going. Through it all, he could just never get going and the view was that he never dug deep enough to try to take the bull by the horns.

It just wasn't the right situation for anyone and he needed to go, just like Stephen Jackson.

They really don't care that much about Murphy. He got paid big and underperformed but the fans never viewed him as a snob the way they viewed Dunleavy.

When Jason Richardson comes to town in a couple of weeks, I expect that this man will get a two minute standing ovation before the game and will probably get another big ovation after the game. Fans will want pictures with him before and after the game. They'll probably have a video tribute. Little kids will probably give him flowers.

We're not total haters. :)

d_c
01-14-2008, 01:35 AM
BTW,

Dunleavy loves us Warrior fans too :)

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) -- From Mike Dunleavy's opening introduction to his final missed 3-pointer, the booing Golden State fans let their least favorite player know just how much they still despise him.

And after the Warriors finished their 106-101 comeback victory Sunday night over Dunleavy and his Indiana Pacers, the much-reviled forward confirmed that the feeling is mutual.

"I wouldn't want it any other way," said Dunleavy, who spent his first 4˝ NBA seasons with the Warriors. "I couldn't care less. It's hard to pay attention and care about something somebody says when you have no respect for them. They can do whatever they want."

CableKC
01-14-2008, 01:35 AM
Jermaine physically isn't what he used to be, but he still looks very effective on help defense. He erased shot after shot. Scorer gave him 6 blocks but it seemed like more. Whenever you guys took him out and put Murphy in at center, it was basically a free lane to the basket for the Warriors. In fact I felt having Murphy in there for a couple stretches in each half is what kept the Warriors in the game. Biedrins has a deep thigh bruise from the game against Memphis and Nellie was careful using him. Jermaine mostly had his way inside, but he forced a few shots in the 2nd half against double/triple teams. He's just never been a great passer out of the post.
There are 2 parts to JONeal's rather ineffective post-offense:

1 ) I still think that the rest of the team does a VERY POOR job of moving around to get not only open...but in a place where JONeal can pass the ball to.

2 ) When he does try to take the ball to the hoop...but is cut off in the paint.....I think that he commits before realizing that the paint is closed off to him and ends up trying to force the ball into the hoop. It really looks like he's trying to push the ball into the hoop rather then take a good shot. He did that 2 or 3 times in the game where he started off from the the right side of the basket...tried to bull his way into the paint then saw 2/3 players there guarding and he ended up doing a fadeaway shot that just clanked off the basket.

I blame the players lack of rotating to JONeal's side more then his inability to take a good shot in the paint and settling for a forced shot.

CableKC
01-14-2008, 01:42 AM
"I wouldn't want it any other way," said Dunleavy, who spent his first 4˝ NBA seasons with the Warriors. "I couldn't care less. It's hard to pay attention and care about something somebody says when you have no respect for them. They can do whatever they want."
I do wish that he would take the high-road in regards to this.....but I admit that I am glad that he publically said that no love for the Oakland fans.

The only thing that I was really happy with him was that he was able to step up and play very well.

mcampbellarch
01-14-2008, 01:44 AM
The commentators were mentioning that the W's often start out slowly because they are playing 1 on 1 instead of as a team. It seems like the P's do the opposite in their losses. Come out strong with a lot of movement then slowly revert to more individual play.

Not a bad outing, but not a win. Hard to tell if Mike went away towards the end or whether there was just to much isolation play.

JO looked good, but when he dribbled until Ellis was able to steal the ball of the weak side it killed me.

I was thinking that last night was a good example of how to play with JO. Tonight may be the example of when JO is solid, but we needed different things from him.

Agree with above post - guys need to move to get to where JO can dish to them.

CableKC
01-14-2008, 01:48 AM
The main thing is that he underperformed. But on top of that, he kind of gave off the vibe of "It's not my fault because I play the game the right way". He was picked high. A lot was invested in him. Trades were made just to accommodate him. Coaches were hired specifically for him. Lineups were changed just to try to get him going. Through it all, he could just never get going and the view was that he never dug deep enough to try to take the bull by the horns.

It just wasn't the right situation for anyone and he needed to go, just like Stephen Jackson.

They really don't care that much about Murphy. He got paid big and underperformed but the fans never viewed him as a snob the way they viewed Dunleavy.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "trades were made to accomodate him"?

I'm not going to fault him for the Warriors picking him as the 3rd pick in the draft...I'm not going to fault him for the Warriors conceding to overpay him they didn't have to during a time when EVERYONE was being overpaid. I can understand that he has always underperformed.....and that a change in scenery was really needed......but he is what he is what he is.

d_c
01-14-2008, 01:50 AM
I do wish that he would take the high-road in regards to this.....but I admit that I am glad that he publically said that no love for the Oakland fans.

The only thing that I was really happy with him was that he was able to step up and play very well.

We hate him and he hates us. We think he's a snob who underperformed and he thinks we're crude fans with no basketball knowledge. We boo him and he tries to stick it to us.

It's all good. I have no problems with anything because it really doesn't matter. The Warriors are better off after the trade and so is Mike. It's all part of sports: You cheer for who you like and boo who you don't. That's what makes being a fan fun.

He performed well tonight, as I would expect anyone with any pride to do. Good for him.

CableKC
01-14-2008, 01:53 AM
I was thinking that last night was a good example of how to play with JO. Tonight may be the example of when JO is solid, but we needed different things from him.
Although a win is a win....I'm not going to look at the Kings game as a guage of how to run "Small ball". The Kings were severely undermanned and frankly were in a state of disarray with KMart's return and having to depend on Francisco Garcia and John Salmons as their primary scorers.

Tonight "Small Ball" only worked for the 1st 3 QTRs cuz the Warriors played down to us......but in the end....the Warriors beat us at their own game.

I will have to see how Small-Ball works against a fully manned team that isn't used to playing Small ball and don't continually run. We have only played Small Ball against the Suns, Kings and Warriors....2 of which are used to running a smaller lineup.

But I'm not entirely convinced that this offense will work. I really think that we have to use pair Foster with Murphy more often. Murphy's poor defensive weaknesses really stand out and forces JONeal to play more defense. I am guessing that he was really tired by the end of the game.

d_c
01-14-2008, 01:58 AM
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "trades were made to accomodate him"?

I'm not going to fault him for the Warriors picking him as the 3rd pick in the draft...I'm not going to fault him for the Warriors conceding to overpay him they didn't have to during a time when EVERYONE was being overpaid. I can understand that he has always underperformed.....and that a change in scenery was really needed......but he is what he is what he is.

Our then best player (after Arenas ditched us), Antawn Jamison, was traded specifically so Dunleavy could get into the starting lineup and assume his natural SF spot. Eric Musselman was then canned a year later, and a big reason for that was because he didn't get along with Dunleavy.

I don't fault Dunleavy for a lot of things either. I'd lay 95% (or more) of the blame with Warrior management.

But angst between the fans and Dunleavy runs further than just his underperformance on the court and his contract (as Murphy was probably even more overpaid but fans don't really give a sniff about him).

We didn't like him, but it's not like we hate every ex-Warrior. Again, watch what happens when Jason Richardson makes his return. You'll see a completely opposite reception.

bnd45
01-14-2008, 02:23 AM
I just got back from the game and wanted to chime in with my observations. Pretty simple stuff, Baron and Monta are just too damn good.

Tinsley: He was somewhere else tonight. I was shocked to see that he had 11 assists. JT was very careless with the basketball tonight. Him and Granger had a pretty good confrontation/argument after Granger dropped his no-look pass. He also had words with Dunleavy over a few different plays (including the final play) Overall, he just seemed a step slow. Normally, he's the loudest PG in the league when it comes to calling for the outlet, tonight I didn't hear him once. We need him to bring it every night if we want to improve, otherwise we have to really look into dealing him. I know the Warriors have more talent, but the fact that we can't win a game when JO, Granger and Dunleavy all play well speaks volumes about Tinsley's value and importance to this team.

Diener: I want to know what little Travis Diener could have possibly siad that could warrant a T. As for his play, a pretty predictable dud tonight following his breakout game. Warriors' guards are way too talented for him to have an impact especially when his shot isn't falling (the airball was disgusting)

JO: I'm not a JO guy but he was a monster tonight. We need to convince him that every guy he goes against is an ex-Pacer (Harrington and Croshere guarded him 90% of the game) Both putbacks late in the game were not his fault. If we're going to play small Granger, Dunleavy and even Rush better crash the boards and cover the weakside.

I was hoping to see the final play called for Rush, but instead we dumped it into JO hoping they would double down (they didn't) and he'd kick it out to the open shooter. Simply having Tinsley and Dunleavy interchange was not the smartest idea.

I'm glad I'm not the only one upset with Foster getting a DNP-CD. Murphy should be the one not playing. I don't care that Foster can be an offensive liability, he brings energy and gives us second chances when most of our perimeter shots don't go in. (He looked pretty pissed after the game sitting in a golf cart in a corner of the hallway/tunnel waiting for the bus to leave)

My final thought: I know he has fallen out of the rotation, but where the hell was Ike? He wasn't even in a suit. Did he have to accompany Harrison back to Indy?

Peck
01-14-2008, 02:26 AM
I just got back from the game and wanted to chime in with my observations. Pretty simple stuff, Baron and Monta are just too damn good.

Tinsley: He was somewhere else tonight. I was shocked to see that he had 11 assists. JT was very careless with the basketball tonight. Him and Granger had a pretty good confrontation/argument after Granger dropped his no-look pass. He also had words with Dunleavy over a few different plays (including the final play) Overall, he just seemed a step slow. Normally, he's the loudest PG in the league when it comes to calling for the outlet, tonight I didn't hear him once. We need him to bring it every night if we want to improve, otherwise we have to really look into dealing him. I know the Warriors have more talent, but the fact that we can't win a game when JO, Granger and Dunleavy all play well speaks volumes about Tinsley's value and importance to this team.

Diener: I want to know what little Travis Diener could have possibly siad that could warrant a T. As for his play, a pretty predictable dud tonight following his breakout game. Warriors' guards are way too talented for him to have an impact especially when his shot isn't falling (the airball was disgusting)

JO: I'm not a JO guy but he was a monster tonight. We need to convince him that every guy he goes against is an ex-Pacer (Harrington and Croshere guarded him 90% of the game) Both putbacks late in the game were not his fault. If we're going to play small Granger, Dunleavy and even Rush better crash the boards and cover the weakside.

I was hoping to see the final play called for Rush, but instead we dumped it into JO hoping they would double down (they didn't) and he'd kick it out to the open shooter. Simply having Tinsley and Dunleavy interchange was not the smartest idea.

I'm glad I'm not the only one upset with Foster getting a DNP-CD. Murphy should be the one not playing. I don't care that Foster can be an offensive liability, he brings energy and gives us second chances when most of our perimeter shots don't go in. (He looked pretty pissed after the game sitting in a golf cart in a corner of the hallway/tunnel waiting for the bus to leave)

My final thought: I know he has fallen out of the rotation, but where the hell was Ike? He wasn't even in a suit. Did he have to accompany Harrison back to Indy?

Hmmm... ironic you mention that because the game stats don't even list him as a DNP but do have Harrison on there. I was thinking this was just a mistake but now that you point out that he wasn't even there.....

I wonder....

granger33
01-14-2008, 02:28 AM
O'Brien seems very happy with Mike

(On Mike Dunleavy) “He was three assists away from a triple double that speaks for itself. He played a very good game and he’s been a wonderful, wonderful addition to our basketball team and I wouldn’t trade him for anybody.”


I was hoping to see the final play called for Rush, but instead we dumped it into JO hoping they would double down (they didn't) and he'd kick it out to the open shooter. Simply having Tinsley and Dunleavy interchange was not the smartest idea.
Yeh im with ya, Tinsley has taking a game winning shot, so has JO, so has Granger.

So why not try and get Rush open for a look. In my mind his probably our best 3 point shooter.


know he has fallen out of the rotation, but where the hell was Ike? He wasn't even in a suit. Did he have to accompany Harrison back to Indy?
Warriors TV broadcast said Ike was inactive tonight and he was back in Indy, not sure why though??

Man we deserved to win, lets get them on our home court. I expect all you Indiana fans going to the game to cheer our pacers on!

grace
01-14-2008, 02:50 AM
So...what was the deal on the DNP for Jeff Foster???

I'm sure it had to do with the fact that Austin Croshere was there. Those two are a drunken brawl just waiting to happen. ;)

dohman
01-14-2008, 04:15 AM
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080114/capt.697a373f285d42dfbea895714f8ff41b.pacers_warri ors_basketball_oas108.jpg

Caption this.

It's immediately after JT misses the "drawn-up" three at the end that would've tied it.


You mean we seriously traded jackson for you?

dohman
01-14-2008, 04:17 AM
Somebody please go back and count the number of times we've lost a lead of 15 or more.


easy formula to solve this problem

x = games won

b = games played.

z = games where we had over a 15 point lead and lost it

b-x=z

Phildog
01-14-2008, 08:31 AM
Anybody see Jack kiss Stacy and say "Thank you baby" after the game during his postgame interview?

Unclebuck
01-14-2008, 08:44 AM
This little blurp from the star today might explain things about roster spots. Ike wasn't on the
active rooster



The Pacers have to keep Harrison on the active roster, meaning they'll only have 11 players available each game.


.

Oneal07
01-14-2008, 10:53 AM
Jermaine played his ****ing heart out, and I don't want anyone telling me otherwise.


Oh MY GOODNESS. I Was so happy to see Jermaine playing like Jermaine. That's The Jermaine everyone wants to see, that's the Jermaine that's been lost for the last 3 years.

People forget that's he's a 6 time all-star. He can play just as good as Garnett and Duncan. I really like the small ball, cause it really helps Jermaine's game. I think when the Pacers come back east, teams are going to be scared to play them.

I mean, putting Rush in the starting line up was a smart move. I think you might start seeing similar scores like in the pre-season lol!!! We're gonna be dropping 140 on teams now

ajbry
01-14-2008, 12:44 PM
Anybody see Jack kiss Stacy and say "Thank you baby" after the game during his postgame interview?

That's my boy. Wish I had gotten the FSN Indiana broadcast to laugh at that.

bnd45
01-14-2008, 01:01 PM
This little blurp from the star today might explain things about roster spots. Ike wasn't on the
active rooster



The Pacers have to keep Harrison on the active roster, meaning they'll only have 11 players available each game.


.

I get that he wasn't on the active roster, but he wasn't even out on the bench. Stephen Graham was our only guy in a suit.

CableKC
01-14-2008, 01:50 PM
Our then best player (after Arenas ditched us), Antawn Jamison, was traded specifically so Dunleavy could get into the starting lineup and assume his natural SF spot. Eric Musselman was then canned a year later, and a big reason for that was because he didn't get along with Dunleavy.
Jamison wasn't traded "specifically so Dunleavy could get into the starting lineup and assume his natural SF spot", the primary motivation in the Warriors seeking to trade Jamison to the Mavericks was because they wanted to move the MAX contract that they had given him in the 2001 offseason.

The end result in moving Jamison was to get more minutes for the Dunleavy....but the move was also done to get more minutes to the rest of the Warriors "youth movement" which was made up of Dunleavy, Pietrus and Murphy....all of which played minutes at the Forward rotation that Jamison started and played minutes at. In addition, the Warriors also needed to add a Starting quality PG ( Nick Van Exel ) so that they can add depth to the PG rotation after losing Arenas to the Wizards.

To say that Jamison was traded to make minutes for Dunleavy is IMHO partially ( and techincally ) correct, but not entirley accurate.

The main reason for moving Jamison was because the Warriors wanted to rectify the $86 million "mistake" that they made when they gave Jamison a Max contract.

CableKC
01-14-2008, 01:59 PM
Diener: I want to know what little Travis Diener could have possibly siad that could warrant a T. As for his play, a pretty predictable dud tonight following his breakout game. Warriors' guards are way too talented for him to have an impact especially when his shot isn't falling (the airball was disgusting)
The only thing that I could say was that he had made 2 FGA that were called off due to some mistake ( a 3-second violation and some other foul that I missed ) that another teammate made.

I still think that he did a decent job....but he did make a few mistakes ( attempting to shoot over Harrington and losing the ball when he dribbled it too much ) that still makes me think that he is a good "situational" backup PG.

Against teams that had solid Guard rotations like Monte, Baron and ( even ) Azubuike that can light it up and run circles around him and way stronger, he won't be very effective.

He would be good to fill in some backup PG minutes if we are playing a really bad defensive team that did not have a very good PG/SG on the floor ( like the Kings had the other night ).

Unclebuck
01-14-2008, 02:23 PM
O'Brien seems very happy with Mike

(On Mike Dunleavy) “He was three assists away from a triple double that speaks for itself. He played a very good game and he’s been a wonderful, wonderful addition to our basketball team and I wouldn’t trade him for anybody.”




Any coach would love to have Dunleavy on his team. You might say well any coach besides Nelson. My guess is that even Nelson injoyed coaching Dun. Nellie just thought he was better as a 7th or 8th man.

Mike's been our most valuable player this season to this point.

grace
01-14-2008, 02:44 PM
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080114/capt.697a373f285d42dfbea895714f8ff41b.pacers_warri ors_basketball_oas108.jpg

Jamaal doing his best TO impression: "Dude, how can they dis you like that? :cry: "

Mike: No :censored:. It's not like I went to Cabo with Jessica Simpson.

LoneGranger33
01-14-2008, 04:34 PM
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080114/capt.697a373f285d42dfbea895714f8ff41b.pacers_warri ors_basketball_oas108.jpg

"29%. 43%. Now Jamaal, who do you think should be shooting the game-winner again?"

d_c
01-14-2008, 07:05 PM
Jamison wasn't traded "specifically so Dunleavy could get into the starting lineup and assume his natural SF spot", the primary motivation in the Warriors seeking to trade Jamison to the Mavericks was because they wanted to move the MAX contract that they had given him in the 2001 offseason.

The end result in moving Jamison was to get more minutes for the Dunleavy....but the move was also done to get more minutes to the rest of the Warriors "youth movement" which was made up of Dunleavy, Pietrus and Murphy....all of which played minutes at the Forward rotation that Jamison started and played minutes at. In addition, the Warriors also needed to add a Starting quality PG ( Nick Van Exel ) so that they can add depth to the PG rotation after losing Arenas to the Wizards.

To say that Jamison was traded to make minutes for Dunleavy is IMHO partially ( and techincally ) correct, but not entirley accurate.

The main reason for moving Jamison was because the Warriors wanted to rectify the $86 million "mistake" that they made when they gave Jamison a Max contract.

However you want to put it, the Warriors went out of their way to replace building around Jamison (a pretty good player) with building around Dunleavy. They gave him the starting spot when after not proving much his rookie year.

Regardless, the point is that for the better part of 4.5 years, Dunleavy was given every chance to succeed. When one role didn't work, they tried him in a different role. He was tried in different roles at different positions both starting and off the bench. None of them worked out.

4.5 years is plenty long enough to decide whether a player is working out for you or not. That should go for anyone.

d_c
01-14-2008, 07:09 PM
Any coach would love to have Dunleavy on his team. You might say well any coach besides Nelson. My guess is that even Nelson injoyed coaching Dun. Nellie just thought he was better as a 7th or 8th man.

Mike's been our most valuable player this season to this point.

Dunleavy didn't jive well with Eric Musselman, who preferred playing Brian Cardinal over Dunleavy, but only because Cardinal was actually outplaying Dunleavy that particular year. Musselman, tho, has had clashes with several players so it's not a really good example.

Nellie has said many times that he likes Dunleavy and liked coaching him, just that he didn't make enough shots for him. In fact that's what he said last night after the game. Chris Mullin was also very reluctant to trade him.

You can't imagine how many articles were written when Nellie was re-hired last year talking about how he was the perfect coach to get something out of Dunleavy and Murphy.

CableKC
01-14-2008, 08:14 PM
However you want to put it, the Warriors went out of their way to replace building around Jamison (a pretty good player) with building around Dunleavy. They gave him the starting spot when after not proving much his rookie year.

Regardless, the point is that for the better part of 4.5 years, Dunleavy was given every chance to succeed. When one role didn't work, they tried him in a different role. He was tried in different roles at different positions both starting and off the bench. None of them worked out.

4.5 years is plenty long enough to decide whether a player is working out for you or not. That should go for anyone.
I completely agree that Dunleavy HAS NEVER played up to being a 3rd round pick player. I also agree that he isn't playing at a level that is expected of a $8-9 mil a player.

But don't make it seem like Dunleavy is the only one to blame for how that situation turned out. The Warriors FO could have decided to cut ties with him at anytime if they thought that he wasn't able to live up to their expectations. Unforutnately, it just took them 4.5 seasons to figure out that he wasn't a good fit. What's made it worse was that they didn't have to overpay him.......just like they did for Jamison, just like what they did for Murphy, Fisher and Foyle.

But that's fine......we can agree to disagree. As a Pacer fan that likes what Dunleavy brings to the court, my opinion of him is "colored" just like your opinion is "colored" by your opinion of him as a Warriors fan.

Hicks
01-14-2008, 08:35 PM
I also agree that he isn't playing at a level that is expected of a $8-9 mil a player.


What? Have you seen what he's been doing this year? He's been paid very appropriately.

jeffg-body
01-14-2008, 08:41 PM
I have to agree with Mal here that Dun is being paid appropriately. He has been our most consistent player this year. IS it his fault someone offered him that kind of doe?

:dance::bond::darkness::sadbanana:swordfigh:carrot ::hoosiers::king::boomer::lurk:

(sorry for all of the icons but they are my 4 year olds participation)

Naptown_Seth
01-14-2008, 08:50 PM
What? Have you seen what he's been doing this year? He's been paid very appropriately.
I agree. I feel fine with his deal and Jeff's.

How much do you think JOB is even extra PO'd that Hulk is costing them a roster spot for his stupid mistake?

I sure didn't like hearing BND's report on Tinsley from live action. I can't help but feel that 100% identical to last season this magical chemistry is falling apart with each loss. Meet the new PG, same as the old PG perhaps.

d_c
01-14-2008, 08:59 PM
But don't make it seem like Dunleavy is the only one to blame for how that situation turned out. The Warriors FO could have decided to cut ties with him at anytime if they thought that he wasn't able to live up to their expectations. Unforutnately, it just took them 4.5 seasons to figure out that he wasn't a good fit. What's made it worse was that they didn't have to overpay him.......just like they did for Jamison, just like what they did for Murphy, Fisher and Foyle.

But that's fine......we can agree to disagree. As a Pacer fan that likes what Dunleavy brings to the court, my opinion of him is "colored" just like your opinion is "colored" by your opinion of him as a Warriors fan.

What do you mean? I already said I lay about 95% (and probably more) of the blame on the Warriors' inept management back in the day. That's where it starts and ends, just like I would blame the Pacers' PG problems on management's inability to get a better PG a lot more than Jamal Tinsley himself.

I'm just saying that there is no possible way anyone can make the argument that (on an individual level) Dunleavy didn't get his fair chance to succeed with the Warriors. He got his chance. He got multiple ones at that.

I (along with many other Warrior fans) would have ended the Dunleavy experiment about 2 years earlier than Mullin eventually did. I would have never committed $250M to Dunleavy, Murphy, Foyle, Fisher and JRich to begin with.

With that being said, Dunleavy and Murphy got their chances to succeed over in GS. Got their chances to prove themselves It just didn't work out. I myself would have never given them that many chances, but they got them anyways. That's all I'm saying. At least now Dunleavy is proving himself to be a competent and productive player, as many people suspected he could have all along. Murphy likewise is proving that he's just not very good, which a lot of people suspected all allong as well.

JayRedd
01-14-2008, 09:57 PM
What? Have you seen what he's been doing this year? He's been paid very appropriately.

Couldn't agree more. He's been our MVP this year thus far.