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OakMoses
01-09-2008, 12:31 PM
So, let's say we trade JO for a few players who have expiring contracts.

What does our salary cap status for 08-09 look like then?

This year's cap is $55.5 million, up about $2.5 million from last year.

Let's assume a similar increase say that it increases to about $58 million for next season.

According to Hoopshype (not the best source, I know) the Pacers will have $47,347,570 in salary without JO's contract on the books. This would leave us approximately $10,652,430 in cap room with 10 players under contract. Furthermore, the Pacers are currently in line to have the 12th pick in the draft last year's #12 pick (Thaddeus Young) is currently making $1,830,720. After signing our draft pick, we'd have $8,821,710 in cap room left.

Last year's top free agent signing (Rashard Lewis) is making $15.6 million this season.

To sum it all up, trading JO for expiring contracts will give us a bit of flexibility, but won't give us enough room to go after any of the top FA's next season.

Dr. Goldfoot
01-09-2008, 12:40 PM
That's why they'd have to send out a couple of other players as well and that still won't insure a big name free agent coming this way.

Young
01-09-2008, 01:01 PM
I don't think the Pacers have to use cap space to sign a big name free agent.

The Sonics used it to get Kurt Thomas, who is expiering I believe, and two first round draft picks from the Phoenix Suns. They could probably send Thomas to a playoff contender and get at least another first for him.

Or it's just room to breath when it comes to signing our own players to extensions.

OakMoses
01-09-2008, 01:23 PM
I'm not advocating the signing of a big name FA. I generally think that free agency is a terrible way to build a team. I'm just trying to point out that moving JO just to get his contract off the books is not the holy grail that many seem to think it is. Our cap issues extend far beyond JO's deal. On the whole, moving JO must be a part of a much larger reshaping of the team, and we must get more back for him than just expiring contracts.

MyFavMartin
01-09-2008, 01:47 PM
Don't think JO's trade value is high right now and believe that once he's fully recovered from the surgery, the offers will improve. However, there's also the question as to what he'll do in regards to the player option, so any trade will have to involve negotiations of an extension.

Once JO gets back to full strength, he will be an asset. The system that the Pacers play with ball movement and running might not display it currently, but the past few years showed that he is an All Star quality PF and could really put a team over the top in a playoff run or be a good second banana to a DWade-type.

OakMoses
01-09-2008, 01:59 PM
Perhaps the funniest thing about JO is that if he would sign a contract promising to opt out after this year, his value would go through the roof.

CableKC
01-09-2008, 02:43 PM
I would easily look to move Murphy ( before JONeal ) in any trade that we make. Even I recognize that JONeal is more useful in JO'Bs system then Murphy is. But let's face facts.....Bird is the only GM that would voluntarily take Murphy in any trade. Whether we like it or not, ( IMHO ) JONeal is the logical ( and most attractive ) choice to be moved IF we are to continue with JO'Bs offensive system. Although JONeal appears be a solid fit in JO'Bs defensive and ( to a certain extent ) offensive system.....due to his recurring/lingering injuries...he just isn't as effective as he could be.

Of course....the other option is continue to hold on to JONeal and to make minor moves....but that pretty much guarantees maintaining the "status quo"......which I am not too fond of.

Trading JONeal isn't as much for Salarycap flexibility...it's about the bigger picture. Trading him means that I KNOW that we will be headed towards the rebuilidng process....which pretty much guarantees that something will ( for better or worse ) change....which is what I wanted ever since the end of the 2006-2007 season.

Hicks
01-09-2008, 05:36 PM
While it's true being millions under the cap won't likely lead to anything in free agency, it DOES allow us to trade a little for a lot.

Let's say we get $12mm under the cap. You could trade a draft pick or say a min. salary player for another player who makes up to $12mm. Say a star they no longer want or can afford to keep. Or who asked to be traded. It doesn't have to be a star, it could be 2 or 3 smaller trades that suddenly leave you with much better quality in your depth. Think 2 or 3 trades where you trade a D or C grade role player for a B or A grade roll player (by including a pick or because they can't afford them or they want out of their old team).

Kofi
01-10-2008, 06:32 AM
Jeff Foster also has a player option he can decline worth a little over $6M. If he declines it (and I'd say there's a decent to good chance he will) we'd be looking at approx. $14M in capspace - enough to make a very big signing in a very deep free agent class.

FREE AGENTS
Josh Childress
Josh Smith
Emeka Okafor
Luol Deng
Ben Gordon
J.R. Smith
Andris Biedrins
Monta Ellis
Shaun Livingston
Nenad Krstic
Andre Iguodala
Louis Williams
Jose Calderon
Antawn Jamison

EARLY TERMINATION OPTION
Allen Iverson
Baron Davis
Elton Brand
Corey Maggette
Shawn Marion
Ron Artest
Gilbert Arenas (already said he'll use his ETO)

I know a lot of you think free agents wont come to Indiana, but throw enough money their way and they will. Of course you don't want any bad contracts, but if you have a chance to land a great young player like a Monta Ellis or a Josh Smith you have to throw everything you can at them.

aero
01-10-2008, 08:02 AM
funny thing, i actually had a dream that Shawn Marion was going to play for the pacers...some may not believe it but ive been having some strange dreams over the last few days...i guess it could be due to falling asleep with ESPN News on ?

indygeezer
01-10-2008, 08:26 AM
Don't think JO's trade value is high right now and believe that once he's fully recovered from the surgery, the offers will improve. However, there's also the question as to what he'll do in regards to the player option, so any trade will have to involve negotiations of an extension.

Once JO gets back to full strength, he will be an asset. The system that the Pacers play with ball movement and running might not display it currently, but the past few years showed that he is an All Star quality PF and could really put a team over the top in a playoff run or be a good second banana to a DWade-type.

He'd be a complete FOOL to opt out of this contract and his next one is going to be a massive shock to him. IMO, his skills no longer match with the new style NBA. Faster, leaner, more wide open than his half-court skill set. I fully expect him to hang on "rehabing" the whole time and then retire at the end of this contract. There will only be minimal offers for him as a FA and we really cannot do a proper rebuild until he does retire.

OakMoses
01-10-2008, 11:22 AM
Jeff Foster also has a player option he can decline worth a little over $6M. If he declines it (and I'd say there's a decent to good chance he will) we'd be looking at approx. $14M in capspace - enough to make a very big signing in a very deep free agent class.

FREE AGENTS
Josh Childress
Josh Smith
Emeka Okafor
Luol Deng
Ben Gordon
J.R. Smith
Andris Biedrins
Monta Ellis
Shaun Livingston
Nenad Krstic
Andre Iguodala
Louis Williams
Jose Calderon
Antawn Jamison

EARLY TERMINATION OPTION
Allen Iverson
Baron Davis
Elton Brand
Corey Maggette
Shawn Marion
Ron Artest
Gilbert Arenas (already said he'll use his ETO)

I know a lot of you think free agents wont come to Indiana, but throw enough money their way and they will. Of course you don't want any bad contracts, but if you have a chance to land a great young player like a Monta Ellis or a Josh Smith you have to throw everything you can at them.

I don't want Josh Smith. I have a feeling he's a Zach Randolph/Al Harrington/Shareef Abdur-Rahim waiting to happen.

Ellis is good, but not $14 million good. I don't think he'll ever be good enough to be the best player on a championship contender.

After last night, I'd give $14 million to Calderon. I'm not kidding.

LG33
01-10-2008, 12:07 PM
After last night, I'd give $14 million to Calderon. I'm not kidding.

It would be great to split it between Caldy and Biedrins...but maybe I'm just dreaming.

OakMoses
01-10-2008, 12:13 PM
It would be great to split it between Caldy and Biedrins...but maybe I'm just dreaming.

You may be dreaming, but I like your dreams.

OakMoses
01-10-2008, 12:27 PM
Jose Calderon - 29.5 mpg, 11.6 ppg, 8.3 apg, 3.2 rpg, 1.3 TO, 51% FG, 40% 3pt, 90% FT, 1.7 fouls/game.

As a starter his minutes go up to 36, his points go up to 13.6, and his assists go up to 9.8. His FG% and TO's stay the same.

Kofi
01-10-2008, 12:38 PM
Yes, Calderon looks like he could be a breakout star once he's a full-time starter playing 35 minutes a night. But with Ford's latest injury, I doubt Toronto is willing to let him walk in free agency. I bet he'll get a contract that starts in the $9-10M range.

OakMoses
01-10-2008, 12:59 PM
Yes, Calderon looks like he could be a breakout star once he's a full-time starter playing 35 minutes a night. But with Ford's latest injury, I doubt Toronto is willing to let him walk in free agency. I bet he'll get a contract that starts in the $9-10M range.

Toronto's got big-time salary issues for next year. They've already got $55 million in salary with Jamario Moon, Kris Humphries, and Calderon all being unrestricted free agents. If they give Calderon $9 million, there's no way they can keep either of the other two without paying the luxury tax.

Not to mention that giving him a contract that big would cause them to have $17 million tied up in 2 PG's.