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View Full Version : Honestly Now, Who to keep and who needs to go?



jeffg-body
01-09-2008, 01:46 AM
If we are truly going to dive fully into JOB ball and Dick Harter D, there needs to be some serious purging. IMO that some of the players I would keep may not fit the typical bill and remember sometimes you have to give up good to drop the bad with it:

Guys to trade/Need to be gone next year:

JO-doesn't fit our system
Murphy- way too soft on D, like charmin
Harrison- not a good match with system
Ike- just too short, regardless of arm length
Tinsley- doing good, but health a problem and age starting to creep up

Guys that can be added to bad trades to equal out talent for real guys:

Foster- high energy and good bball IQ would be nice pick-up at the trade deadline for cap fodder and young prospects.
Quiz- too much of a tweener for our offense, need to trade for a role playing specialist.
Kareem Rush- nice contract and steadily improving, would like to stick him down to the keep section if he would commit for another year or two.

Guys that we need to keep no matter what:

SWill- He is evolving to a very nice player that could be a nice 4 spot as his young body develops.

Danny Granger- He's not a true #1 type of guy, but if we can get a truly real #1 guy, Danny could fall back to being the #2 guy with the lower #2 pressure, AKA Pippen.

Diener/Owens- For right now I have to say these two need to stay right now. Both have played well when given the opportunity. Niehter will start, but both can give relief.

Dunleavy- He's a terribly underrated player and would improve a ton more with the stability a true #1 player would bring. He would return to a sixth man role possibly.

To get a true #1 may also have to give up on 1 of the core keepers. My guess is either Swill or Danny. In that case it had better be an explosive player like Arenas, T-Mac, or another high profile scorer. After that I would say continue to shop the secondary players for cap fodder and draft picks.

Young
01-09-2008, 01:51 AM
I like both Mike and Danny but I don't know that they complemnt one another well enough for this team to be really good.

I feel we need a defensive ace on the perminter. Neither one is. We need that.

Spurs have Bowen, Pistons have Prince, Suns have Bell, etc. We need that.

Foster and Marquis i'd look into trading. They have value and we need to make more changes.

Changes must be made. But I won't bet much on them happening soon.

indypacerfan54
01-09-2008, 01:53 AM
no one is off limits every player on the roster has major flaws. If any player on the roster can bring in better players or cap relief you have to pull the trigger. This team is rapidly heading into knicks territory

odeez
01-09-2008, 01:56 AM
They are all there for the trading, I honestly don't care anymore who it is.

edc
01-09-2008, 01:58 AM
Jermaine needs to go......

FireTheCoach
01-09-2008, 02:00 AM
There is not a single player nor combination of players on this team that I would not let go of to get just 1 true impact player.

I dont care at what position, just give me somebody that we can build a competitive team around.

JayRedd
01-09-2008, 02:05 AM
Junior, JO, Danny, Jeff and maybe Shawne are the only guys we have that are worth a damn. And in that order given cap realities.

CableKC
01-09-2008, 02:10 AM
Who to keep - Tinsley, Granger, Shawne, Dunleavy, Marquis, Rush, Harrison and Foster

Who I don't really care whether they stay or go - Owens, Graham, Deiner

Who to jettison - JONeal, Murphy, TPTB ( if they continue to overvalue JONeal )

Will Galen
01-09-2008, 02:12 AM
Trades won't help this team.

What this team needs more than anything is a closer that can also guard the perimeter. We are just not going to get such a guy in a trade. The only way we get such a guy is in the draft.

So, I only want to do trades if we can get first round draft picks included. If we can't do such a trade, I just want to stay with what we have unless it's a no brainer upgrade.

croz24
01-09-2008, 02:15 AM
all of the pacers are expendable and granger would be one of the guys i'd look to move first while his value is at its peak. granger's numbers will maintain from here on out in his career, although he may not have completely reached his potential, he's pretty darn close. granger nets us a lottery pick and probably a youngster to go along with the pick...foster is another guy i'd move for a mid-late first as he's our 2nd best asset...jo needs to go asap hopefully for picks as well...shawne's the only keeper, well, because he wouldn't net us anything yet...

Dr. Goldfoot
01-09-2008, 02:51 AM
For pretend.....

I was thinking the Pacers could trade Jermaine O'Neal to the Sonics for Wally Szczerbiak and Chris Wilcox. Wally can drain the three and expires after this season and Wilcox can run the floor. Then trade Marquis Daniels to Minnesota for Greg Buckner and Michael Doleac. Doleac expires after this season and Buckner is a pretty good perimeter defender that has shot the three fairly well over his career.Then trade Ike Diogu, Travis Diener and Stephen Graham to Memphis for Damon Stoudamire. Damon is ready for a backup role and still has a little left in the tank with one year left after this season.

The Pacers would be left with a point guard rotation of Tinsley and Stoudamire with Owens seeing action when needed. The 2-3's would be Dunleavy & Granger with Buckner, Wally and Rush providing bench play. The 4-5 rotation would be Murphy, Foster, Wilcox & Williams with Harrison and Doleac behind them


I don't know why Seattle, Minnesota or Memphis would do those trades or if they would make the Pacers any better. I guess even with , what I consider, a well thought out trade process...it still doesn't work.

Naptown_Seth
01-09-2008, 03:13 AM
I keep Mike and Quis, maybe Jeff if you don't need him to make something else work.

All else you have to move, including Granger and Shawne. You have to give to get, and right now what this team must get is salary relief and maybe a pick in a future draft.

It's going to be very tough to get a quality pick this year. As it stands it will cost maybe Granger/Shawne to move JO's deal or Troy's deal. Moving Tinsley could be tricky too.


But this is a wreck that doesn't fit. Tins isn't fixed, he's still careless as ever with the ball and a poor shooter, as well as an iffy defender outside of steals.

JO is barely an MLE caliber offensive player at this point. Solid defender, but at his cost you just can't live with that as a team. Troy is similarly cash-hindered in his value.

Ike goes too before others scout him too much.

Harrison still is struggling to control himself, get out while you can. I thought he was getting better, but now it seems like his temper is dangerously near the surface again.

Rush and Diener and Owens are only rental solutions anyway. Rush is okay, but realistically is about a 9-10th man on an ECF caliber team.


How much more of this before someone says "Nap you were right, it wasn't Rick's fault, they just don't have enough talent"? Right now this is brutal.


In other news I did just buy some tickets for a few upcoming games. I'll ride this SOB out, right into the 9th ring of hell if I have to. I'm starting to think it might just go that far.

:(

Doddage
01-09-2008, 08:36 AM
Let's trade the whole team for cap room and picks, and build a team around Eric Gordon.

Conflict
01-09-2008, 11:42 AM
I like both Mike and Danny but I don't know that they complemnt one another well enough for this team to be really good.

I feel we need a defensive ace on the perminter. Neither one is. We need that.

Spurs have Bowen, Pistons have Prince, Suns have Bell, etc. We need that.

Foster and Marquis i'd look into trading. They have value and we need to make more changes.

Changes must be made. But I won't bet much on them happening soon.

We had Artest;)

OakMoses
01-09-2008, 12:01 PM
Let's get this out in the open right now. We are not going to get a true #1 offensive option who plays adequate defense and is a decent human being through a trade.

That's what we all want, but we're not getting it. We don't have the assets required. Superstars don't get traded that often. The last three really good players traded have been Iverson, Allen, and Garnett. Philly got midlevel talent, 2 draft picks, and cap relief for Iverson. Seattle got a top 5 draft pick, cap relief, and good bench players for Allen. Minnesota got a stellar young talent (Jefferson), a huge expiring contract, and some other prospects for Garnett.

We have no substantial expiring contracts.

Our best prospect (Granger) is not nearly as good as Al Jefferson.

Our other prospects (Ike, Shawne, David?) are probably not worth much more than the other guys thrown into the Garnett deal (Green, Gomes, Telfair).

Everybody here seems to be of the opinion that we shouldn't trade draft picks.

The only way we get a #1 type player is to take a gamble on a guy who's not getting minutes on a good team. That team must be willing to acquire a talented veteran to get them over the top. Then we can send them someone like Jermaine or Foster, maybe Dunleavy. In other words, a situation much like the JO/Dale Davis trade.

I'm not trying to be a downer. I still think this could be a moderately successful team this season. I just don't think #1 options are all that easy to come by.

Kofi
01-09-2008, 12:23 PM
Jermaine and Jamaal both must be gone before the start of training camp next season. Those are my only two musts. I'd love to see somebody bail us out of Murphy's contract, but I'm not holding my breath.

Quis, Dunleavy, Ike and Foster - if they're here fine, if they're gone fine. Foster probably deserves better at this point, so if he were to opt out, than good for him. Ike, I'm torn on. He's looked promising in his first two seasons and the begining of this season, but has been hot garbage since his return from injury. If he returns to his old form, I'd like to see him stay. If not...well then who would want him anyways?

Shawne, Danny - I'd prefer they be here, but if someone equal (or better, obviously) at a more needed position becomes available, then I'd be fine with moving either.

Everyone else - who cares?

Pacemaker
01-09-2008, 02:35 PM
TRADE JO!!!!!!!!!!

NapTonius Monk
01-09-2008, 03:02 PM
I like both Mike and Danny but I don't know that they complemnt one another well enough for this team to be really good.

I feel we need a defensive ace on the perminter. Neither one is. We need that.

Spurs have Bowen, Pistons have Prince, Suns have Bell, etc. We need that.

Foster and Marquis i'd look into trading. They have value and we need to make more changes.

Changes must be made. But I won't bet much on them happening soon.

Rommie, I think Danny and Dun complement each other fine. I think they are both hampered because they don't fit w/JO. I love Jermaine, but I don't know if he fits the philosophy of JOB.

bellisimo
01-09-2008, 03:07 PM
if i was as inconsistent as these guys at my job - i'd be done for which is why i'm open to trading everyone besides Feisty.

Shade
01-09-2008, 03:12 PM
There is not a single player nor combination of players on this team that I would not let go of to get just 1 true impact player.

I dont care at what position, just give me somebody that we can build a competitive team around.

That impact player is Eric Gordon.

Seriously.

Do we have enough on this roster to swing a high 2008 draft pick with anyone?

andreialta
01-09-2008, 05:19 PM
Man Eric Gordon. i saw him last night. and dude was beast. its prolly not even his best game but dude put mad points in just short time cuz he was in foul trouble.

he has a smooth stroke, for some reason he reminds me of a young Baron Davis. BOth can shoot and get up there.

now for the pacers. i think Dunleavy has now started to figure things out, it may not be just this JOB system but i think he is now a true good NBA player earning his contract.

the only teams i see that maybe interested in Dunleavy maybe

Utah. but not nemore since they got Korver

Clippers maybe but who do we get from them?

Spurs maybe too, but they dont like his D.

Denver?? George Karl maybe interested

Chicago?? maybe cuz they have small guards

for JO, the way he is playing, teams are unlikely to take him. i think they maybe think that C-webb can be a much more factor than JO and is cheaper.

now Granger. He is very interesting, as most GM will think he has this really high potential of becoming a Pippen type of player or a Josh HOward to say the least. but I don't think his defense has impressed anyone yet. yet along any fans on this board.

16-20 right now. still aint that bad. were like a good 41/2 games away of number 4 spot.

so theres still hope so Larry Bird might not do anything!

Hicks
01-09-2008, 05:42 PM
That impact player is Eric Gordon.

Seriously.

Do we have enough on this roster to swing a high 2008 draft pick with anyone?

No, and with that in mind I wish people would stop talking about him or Rose or whomever else.

d_c
01-09-2008, 05:53 PM
the only teams i see that maybe interested in Dunleavy maybe

Utah. but not nemore since they got Korver

Clippers maybe but who do we get from them?

Spurs maybe too, but they dont like his D.

Denver?? George Karl maybe interested

Chicago?? maybe cuz they have small guards


Utah can't afford Dunleavy. They're paying Kirilenko a lot of money, and they need to keep AK-47 even for all the drama he creates because they need his defense to cover for Boozer/Okur. They also need to re-sign Deron Williams soon. They also already have Korver, Ronnie Brewer and Harpring who collectively duplicate Dunleavy. Dunleavy for them certainly would a nice player for their system, but he's a luxury item they can't afford.

You could talk to the Clippers about Maggette. I'm sure Dunleavy Sr. would be all for it, but Maggette also happens to be Donald Sterling's favorite player. He won't trade him. If he would, the Warriors would have traded Dunleavy for Maggette a long time ago. Dunleavy has played better this year, so it's more possible, but I still doubt it happens.

Denver already pays big money to Carmelo and the Bulls have pretty much committed to Deng (or they will soon anyways). Again, Dunleavy for them is a luxury item. Denver has a monster payroll and they won't want to add to it. With Carmelo already there, Denver would be better off putting a cheaper guy next to him who can defend.

The Spurs could be an option, but what role players do you really want from them? You could possibly get a couple of their vets along with a first round pick, but it'll be a pretty late pick.

Props to Mike Dunleavy. He is certainly having a good season and is doing a lot more to justify his contract, but to many teams in the league, he's still considered a luxury item: A very nice player to have around, but not a guy you absolutely NEED to have. Given what he is paid, teams will probably look for cheaper alternatives.

high school hero
01-10-2008, 01:55 AM
I think we need to keep Williams, Harrison, Foster, Dunleavy and Tinsley.
Williams has so much upside and you won't get fair value for him at this point. If he keeps his head on straight, he has all-star potential.
Same with Harrison, so much upside, won't get fair value, and for the price they'll be able to get him for at the end of this year, he'll be worth it. His +/- stats have been generally incredible, except for the couple games of late while he's coming back from injury. You can't teach what he has, and he's a very good fit for the defense, contrary to comments above, because he helps out a ton, rotates pretty well, and gets good blocks. He's pretty mobile for his size. Imagine what his stats would be if he didn't have a prior rep for being a fouler? He's been victimized often this year by refs.
Tinsley won't get us much in return, and we need someone to run our offense. He can do it, but coaching needs to be directed to him and the rest of the team to solve some of the issues.
Foster is a workhorse plain and simple. He's good for the younger guys and he's an asset production-wise. He's a top notch role player, and every team could use a guy like him. He's a rare commodity in this league.
Dunleavy can be a great #2 or #3 option, and a #1 for us if he's hot. If he's not hot, he generally doesn't hurt us too bad.
Glad the lovefest for Ike has finally ended. JO and Troy tough to move but would be great if we could. The rest can go but I'd probably keep AO unless someone really wanted him. Decent cieling on him.

Shade
01-10-2008, 02:07 AM
No, and with that in mind I wish people would stop talking about him or Rose or whomever else.

We could still tank for the pick... :eyebrow: