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Major Cold
01-05-2008, 06:32 PM
I really like to talk about possible selections and I know that people throw in some draft expectancies from time to time. If I am wrong in starting this to consoladate this chatter please delete this thread.

My favorite sites

nbadraft.net
draftexpress.com

What players do you really like?

Will Galen
01-06-2008, 12:16 AM
I like Gordan and Rose. Right now the way Gordans lighting it up, and since he's from IU I think he would be the perfect pick for us. He would be a go to guy that would draw the fans too.

Young
01-06-2008, 12:42 AM
I like Rose the best. I think that he will be the best NBA player from this freshman class.

But people will talk about the big 3 of Rose, Gordon, and Beasley. But there are some others to watch out for.

I think that Nicolas Batum is a big time player. Same goes for Donte Greene.

Tyler Smith is probably going to go late lotto or so. Maybe low 20s. I hope he doesn't enter the draft though. I'd love to see him stay at Tennessee a while.

How about Josh Shipp. Never really gets any talk about him. I'd have to say he would be my early sleeper. I think he is just a real good basketball player who will do well in the pros, no all star but defiantly a good pro.

Two players i'm torn on are Roy Hibbert and Hasheem Thabeet. I've never thought to much of Hibbert. He is a real good college player but I think he is to slow to be an really effective NBA player but maybe not. I love Thabeet's physical tools but he hasn't done much at UConn so far he is only a Sophomore. Awesome shot blocker.

I'm not real big on Eric Gordon. He is an awesome player in college. I think he will do fine in the NBA I just think he is a little overratted. I think he will fill up the stat sheet and be an all star level player but not really the franchise player some make him out to be.

Should be a nice draft. It will be interesting to see which freshman declare.

Shade
01-06-2008, 12:44 AM
EJ FTW!

Isaac
01-06-2008, 12:50 AM
This years draft is going to rival 03 and 96.

Can't miss stars (assuming all the freshman declare):
OJ Mayo
Derrick Rose
Eric Gordon
Kevin Love
Michael Beasley
Donte Green

Guys with slightly more risk, but star potential:
DeAndre Jordan
Blake Griffin
Nicolas Batum
Chase Buddinger
Roy Hibbert
Hasheem Thabeet
Darren Collison
Brooke Lopez

Those 14 guys are going to make huge impacts wherever they go.

LG33
01-06-2008, 12:51 AM
I like Tyrese Rice out of Boston College for our second-rounder...I'm not exactly sure why though...

LouisvilleLip
01-06-2008, 01:03 AM
Should be a really interesting draft no one posistion is going to be stacked like when it was Deron, Paul, Felton, this year there is a good variety of stars. I mean the top 4 guys all play different posistions. Rose pg, Gordon combo guard, Mayo sg, Beasley can play sf/pf.

Also interesting is that even though this is one of the most stacked ncaa years there are two international players in the top 10 mock draft on draft express with Batum and Gallinari. I remember Batum was pretty close to coming out last year and was near the top of the mock drafts.

Will Galen
01-06-2008, 01:24 AM
Should be a really interesting draft no one posistion is going to be stacked like when it was Deron, Paul, Felton, this year there is a good variety of stars. I mean the top 4 guys all play different posistions. Rose pg, Gordon combo guard, Mayo sg, Beasley can play sf/pf.

Also interesting is that even though this is one of the most stacked ncaa years there are two international players in the top 10 mock draft on draft express with Batum and Gallinari. I remember Batum was pretty close to coming out last year and was near the top of the mock drafts.

You know what I would hate? For the Pacers to somehow get the 4th pick in the draft and have Beasley, Rose and Gordon, be the first three picks.

Haha! After thinking about that I realized I'm kidding myself, I'd love to have the 4th pick in the draft even if that happened.

LouisvilleLip
01-06-2008, 02:19 AM
I don't see anyway possible Gordon could get picked over Mayo.

mb221
01-06-2008, 03:03 AM
I don't see anyway possible Gordon could get picked over Mayo.

Character issues? His game isn't that far superior.

croz24
01-06-2008, 03:45 AM
This years draft is going to rival 03 and 96.

Can't miss stars (assuming all the freshman declare):
OJ Mayo
Derrick Rose
Eric Gordon
Kevin Love
Michael Beasley
Donte Green

Guys with slightly more risk, but star potential:
DeAndre Jordan
Blake Griffin
Nicolas Batum
Chase Buddinger
Roy Hibbert
Hasheem Thabeet
Darren Collison
Brooke Lopez

Those 14 guys are going to make huge impacts wherever they go.

lol way to go out on a limb there...i really don't think love will make much of an impact at the pro level given his stocky frame and lack of athleticism...mayo will put up numbers but that doesn't mean he'll be a great player. he'll put up his 20-25ppg but on 20spg...buddinger is NOT impressive and same goes for thabeet who has never proven anything other than being a very raw player at uconn...and roy hibbert is way too passive and thin to make an impact in the league, especially right away...

as far as who i'd look at, the only players i'd feel comfortable with the pacers drafting are...obviously the big 3 in beasley, gordon, and rose...possibly koufos but only if he fell...hendrix, a healthy bill walker, a healthy brandon rush, hairston, and my sleeper courtney lee...i wouldn't touch a pg until the 2nd round if we couldn't get rose and then i'd look at singletary and dominic james...

Tyrion
01-06-2008, 04:04 AM
With a second round pick, I would love to see us draft Mike Green as a back-up pg. I realize this is a homer pick, but I think that he is going to be a solid NBA player...maybe never a starter, but he would be a humongous upgrade over our current backups. Regardless of whether we get a new starter in the draft, we need multiple pgs.

Will Galen
01-06-2008, 04:23 AM
I don't see anyway possible Gordon could get picked over Mayo.

Gordons moved past Mayo in the eyes of many. When you consider the character issues, I'm of the opposite mind. I don't see how Mayo will be picked before Gordon if they both come out.

I also don't see how the Pacers could get either one.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=StockWatch-071228&univLogin02=stateChanged


http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/draft2008/headshots/19131.jpg

Eric Gordon (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19131), Age 19, 6'5 SG, Freshman, Indiana
Gordon was ranked No. 4 on our Top 100 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/rank?draftyear=2008) back on July 1 (with Mayo No. 3). But in the past month he's been listed as the third-best prospect in the draft on most NBA scouts' boards, passing Mayo. The two are getting head-to-head comparisons from scouts and Gordon is winning -- but not by a landslide. He's shooting the lights out and has been a much more efficient scorer. Scouts also feel he has a better basketball IQ than Mayo.

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/draft2008/headshots/19129.jpg

O.J. Mayo (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19129), age 20, 6'4 SG, Freshman, USC
He is averaging nearly 20 points a game as a freshman. He's shooting 46 percent from the field and 41 percent from 3. His turnovers are high and his team has struggled a little, but it's not a disgrace to lose to teams like Kansas and Memphis. Mayo is not, as some in the media have suggested, dropping like a rock on NBA draft boards. All the people I've spoken with are still high on him. He may not be the No. 1 pick in the draft anymore, but he's not slipping out of the top 10, either.

jmoney2584
01-06-2008, 04:44 AM
I also don't see how the Pacers could get either one.



haha thats easy...TANK!

Will Galen
01-06-2008, 04:58 AM
haha thats easy...TANK!

True, but teams/players don't tank to get better draft choices. Besides, most have to have Isiah for a coach to tank this early. (grin)

Kofi
01-06-2008, 07:23 AM
We've got a long ways to go. Who knows what IU and USC will do in the tournament to help sway GM's. I also think a lot will depend on pre-draft measurements. I can't believe ESPN just listed Gordon at 6'5". I've now seen him at everything between 6'2" and 6'5". He looks to be about 6'3", tops, to me. That could definitely cause him to slip out of the top-4.

Reckoner
01-06-2008, 07:42 AM
Patrick Mills, ftw.

dgranger
01-06-2008, 10:49 AM
The few games I've seen him play, I've been very impressed with Donte Green.

Rajah Brown
01-06-2008, 11:27 AM
I love the Bayless kid out at Arizona. And assuming he comes
out, he'll probably go in the 8-12 range somewhere making
him a lot more reasonable possibility if the Pacers can somehow
get their mitts on a mid-Lottery pick.

Unfortunately, EJ will likely go too early for the Pacers to have
a shot. And Rose will be gone before EJ.

idioteque
01-06-2008, 11:32 AM
I feel so sorry for whatever team gets stuck with Mayo. He's basically Stephon Marbury reincarnated. He'll put up great numbers, I have no doubt, but he will NEVER make a team better.

Not comparing Gordan to Reggie so to say but I really think that both of them make their teams better. It comes down to whether you'd have a potential Reggie or a potential Marbury. I think every NBA GM would take Reggie every time, yet some idiot is still going to draft Mayo with like the second pick.

skyfire
01-06-2008, 11:45 AM
Patrick Mills, ftw.

Yea, representing the Aussies on this board.

Mills and Joe Ingles will both be NBA players.

LouisvilleLip
01-06-2008, 01:12 PM
Even if Gordon leads IU to the ncaa championship he won't get drafted over Mayo.

Will Galen
01-06-2008, 01:20 PM
Even if Gordon leads IU to the ncaa championship he won't get drafted over Mayo.

Hahaha!

If you can tell the future, give us all some good lottery numbers. And while you are at it tell us if the Colts are going to repeat. Oh, something else, are the Pacers going to make a trade?

LouisvilleLip
01-06-2008, 01:30 PM
Having any success in terms of wins in the ncaa is very overrated these days. It all comes down to workouts and potential.

All I know is Oj Mayo is a phenom with the nba body/athlete with ridiculous potential. He would have been a top 3 pick out of highschool. Nobody is going to pass him up and take Gordon.

Will Galen
01-06-2008, 02:56 PM
It all comes down to workouts and potential.
Nobody is going to pass him up and take Gordon.

NOBODY knows what will happen in a workout. As for potential, Ford says MOST NBA scouts have Gordon in front of Mayo. And as for someone passing Mayo to take Gordon, Jordan got passed proving anyone can get passed.

Naptown_Seth
01-06-2008, 04:04 PM
I've been specifically paying attention to top players this year for this reason. We had this going in another thread in fact if someone wants to dig the info out of that one too.

Right now the only player I feel really good about is Mayo. He's ready. I've only seen Gordon once myself and while I like him I'd like to see more and better.

Rose has the athletic talent but when I've seen him he's looked REALLY raw. That TEAM is strong, but he has not stood out just yet.


To me Chase Buddinger has a whole lot of Croshere to his game. He's a solid playmaker and can shoot, but he's not a take over type of guy that you'd take top 10 and he really doesn't solve the Pacers issues. They have Dunleavy already.

AZ other star, Bayless, was hurt when I last watched them. He had an injury in HS too according to draft.net.

Roy Hibbert gives you character since he chose to stay in school. That also means extra time on fundamentals. But the odd thing with him is that his game has slipped a bit and is rather underwhelming to me. But then again it reminds me of how Brad Miller finished up at Purdue, and he went on to be an all-star.

Kevin Love is damn impressive. Now he's no athlete and perhaps a bit undersized in a Sean May way. He won't tear up the low post in the NBA, at least not as is. BUT, he's a worker on the boards, modestly crafty, and by far the best outlet passer in the draft. In fact even in the half court he makes strong, long skip passes. He can find guys and get them the ball safely.

Love's teammate Collison...underwhelming. Haven't seen the vision from him in the few games I've watched. Gets himself into tough spots to pass from ala Fred Jones. Just not as ready as you'd like, and could never really click above modest backup. If a guy like Love is on the board I'd take him instead, in spite of "need".

I have to watch again because I wasn't looking for him specifically at the time, but I think it was Chalmers at Kansas that was really impressive the other day (had a good box, but I need to watch to be sure). Both he and Rush are interesting, and that team as a whole plays solid ball. Neither have declared that I know of but I would think either of them could after a title run.

For the same reason I think Douglas-Roberts and Dorsey at Memphis could also become interesting options. Like Kansas they win with quality all-around play and have several good athletes. I almost think Rose should stay more than some of these other players.

Any reason why Draft.net has Clark (Louisville) moved to 2009? Has he said he is staying next year, or just uncertain?

They moved Koufos (Ohio St) to 2009 but if you've seen him play you can see why. Not ready at least so far this year.

owl
01-06-2008, 04:13 PM
With a second round pick, I would love to see us draft Mike Green as a back-up pg. I realize this is a homer pick, but I think that he is going to be a solid NBA player...maybe never a starter, but he would be a humongous upgrade over our current backups. Regardless of whether we get a new starter in the draft, we need multiple pgs.


++++++++++++++++++++++++


Homer pick or not I believe he would be a solid second round pick.

LG33
01-06-2008, 04:44 PM
Let's get the Rush brothers together.

Naptown_Seth
01-06-2008, 04:45 PM
Here's your chance to sincerely moan and cheer during the draft for a change. ;) Games on TV

Note to watch -

1-12 ESPN has Georgetown (Hibbert) vs UConn (Thabeat)

1-17 Fox Sports Net has Stanford (Lopez) vs AZ (Bayless/Budinger)

1-19 has several matchup games:
Kansas St (Beasley) vs Texas A&M (Jordan) on ESPN
USC (Mayo) vs UCLA (Love-Collison) on CBS
Tenn (T Smith) vs Ohio St (Koufos) on CBS

1-21 features Georgetown (Hibbert) vs Syracuse (Greene)


Upcoming TV games for some players via ESPN schedule:

IU-Gordon and White
1-8 ESPN
1-13 CBS
1-17 ESPN

Memphis - Rose - Douglas-Roberts - Dorsey
none in the next 10 days

Louisville - Clark (2009 pick now)
1-10 ESPN
1-17 ESPN

USC - Mayo and Jefferson
1-10 FSN
1-19 CBS

AZ - Budinger and Bayless
1-12 ESPN2
1-17 Fox Sports Net

UCLA - Love and Collison
1-19 CBS

Georgetown - Hibbert
1-12 ESPN
1-14 ESPN
1-21 ESPN

OK - Griffin
1-14 ESPN

Syracuse - Greene
1-19 ESPN
1-21 ESPN

Texas A&M - Jordan
1-16 ESPN2
1-19 ESPN

Kansas St - Beasley
1-19 ESPN

Tenn - Smith
1-17 ESPN2
1-19 CBS

Stanford - Lopez
1-13 CBS
1-17 FSN

UConn - Thabeat
1-12 ESPN

Ohio St - Koufos
1-15 ESPN
1-19 CBS


Note that I don't have Kansas listed at all here, though I did mention them as a team to watch. This is just basically the guys at the top of Draft.net and they only have the unimpressive Kaun listed in the 2008 draft right now. Of course you'll get your fill of both Kansas and Memphis during the NCAA tourney.

idioteque
01-06-2008, 04:49 PM
I normally don't go along with homer crap, actually I'm anti-homer and like to draft out of town players.

But our attendance is terrible, and the fact that this sad reality coincides with a potential superstar coming out of IU this year gives TPTB an opportunity that they need to harness. I'd trade anyone on our team for Gordon.

Naptown_Seth
01-06-2008, 04:55 PM
You know what I would hate? For the Pacers to somehow get the 4th pick in the draft and have Beasley, Rose and Gordon, be the first three picks.

Haha! After thinking about that I realized I'm kidding myself, I'd love to have the 4th pick in the draft even if that happened.
I know Mayo's attitude was in question but I'm not so sure that's a problem now. He might have some Kobe to him, but I'm not sure he's going to be a legal issue like the Pacers have been dealing with.

As much as Dun is a team player I think Mayo would quickly have fans wanting him to start and either Dun or Danny to be moved to make room. Of course it's early, let's see his impact closer to tourney time. Prima donna or clutch?


I normally don't go along with homer crap, actually I'm anti-homer and like to draft out of town players.

But our attendance is terrible, and the fact that this sad reality coincides with a potential superstar coming out of IU this year gives TPTB an opportunity that they need to harness. I'd trade anyone on our team for Gordon.
Yeah, but the hard fact we all know is that a top 5 pick seems really unlikely no matter what method to get it is tried. At least with Gordon, unlike Alford, it wouldn't be a reach. :)

How about Love over White instead to again upset IU fans with a UCLA over IU pick. ;) I'd take it.

Robertmto
01-06-2008, 05:05 PM
I don't see anyway possible Gordon could get picked over Mayo.

Because Mayo can't even lead his team thru non conference without 3 losses? Or maybe because he hasn't even led his team to a W yet in conference play? OR because of the perceived character issues? OR MAYBE because he's a streaky shooter that has his great days and always has his horrible days.


This years draft is going to rival 03 and 96.

Can't miss stars (assuming all the freshman declare):
OJ Mayo
Derrick Rose
Eric Gordon
Kevin Love

am i the onlly person that see's a size issue with him?


Even if Gordon leads IU to the ncaa championship he won't get drafted over Mayo.

Homer much?

JayRedd
01-06-2008, 05:14 PM
To me Chase Buddinger has a whole lot of Croshere to his game. He's a solid playmaker and can shoot, but he's not a take over type of guy that you'd take top 10 and he really doesn't solve the Pacers issues. They have Dunleavy already.

Yup. His ceiling is a poor, poor man's Corey Maggette. Whoever takes him will be pretty disappointed.


Kevin Love is damn impressive. Now he's no athlete and perhaps a bit undersized in a Sean May way. He won't tear up the low post in the NBA, at least not as is. BUT, he's a worker on the boards, modestly crafty, and by far the best outlet passer in the draft. In fact even in the half court he makes strong, long skip passes. He can find guys and get them the ball safely.

I love Love.


I have to watch again because I wasn't looking for him specifically at the time, but I think it was Chalmers at Kansas that was really impressive the other day (had a good box, but I need to watch to be sure). Both he and Rush are interesting, and that team as a whole plays solid ball. Neither have declared that I know of but I would think either of them could after a title run.

SuperNintendo Chalmers and Rush are both gonna be good pros. Rush especially. He has mini-Paul Pierce/Caron Butler potential.


Also...how has Ty Lawson not been mentioned yet? Yall should be embarrassed. He's exactly who we need.

Major Cold
01-07-2008, 01:15 AM
I like BEasley and Gordon. I agree with Seth that Rose has some polish to do. If he stayed in one more year that may be the best thing for him.

Batum???? Lopez????

I love this kid.


<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YMP7pn6VNYQ&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YMP7pn6VNYQ&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


http://www.zonabasket.es/wp-content/uploads/serge-ibaka-en-vestuario-r-jordi-cotrina.jpgSerge IbakaCongo

Birthday:9/18/1989
NBA Postion:PF/C
Class:N/A
Ht:6-10
Wt:220
Int Team:LHospitalet
Hometown:Congo
High School:N/A

NBA Comparison: Shawn Kemp
Strengths: A tremendous athlete blessed with insane length and leaping ability ... Conjures up memories of Shawn Kemp. Ibaka reportedly had a higher vertical than any of the players drafted in the 2007 draft. Which is extremely unusual for a taller player ... Despite his immense physical gifts, Ibaka hustles at all times and works hard on his game showing a lot of improvement in a short time ... He's currently playing in Spain for L'Hospitalet ... Has solid footwork in the post, and an improving turn around jumper ... He can even extend out to the 3 pt line and knock down shots on occaision ... Has the tools to become a first round pick in the next year, as he is not far from having an NBA ready body, and plays hard ... He's relentless on the boards and his length and athleticism makes him a formidable shot blocker ... Has good touch on his shot, and solid mechanics, he just needs to become more comfortable with his offensive game so it becomes second nature ...

Weaknesses: Coming from the Congo, his age may come into question ... He appears to be young and at least close to his listed age so it likely won't be to big a deterrant, but teams are normally wary of the age of young African players who seem "too good to be true". But unlike some other recent African draft picks who did not play NCAA ball (Saer Sene, Malick Badiane and Desagana Diop) Ibaka is already showing offensive abilities ... Ibaka also needs to work hard on his skills, while he shows nice potential with his ball skills and post moves, they are far from refined ... Learning a few moves that he can consistently go to in the post will greatly improve his offesnive abilities ... Needs to add some muscle to his frame. Right now, he's too lean and will get pushed around under the basket ... But he's still very young, and appears to be able to put weight on without any problems ... At the adidas Global camp in New Orleans, Ibaka suffered with cramps, so staying hydrated and improving on his stamina are important ...

He appears to have an offensive game. Folks I know that the unknown is intriguing and often overrated. But this kid seems different. Raw talent with and offensive game. Too bad we can't see him in FIBA cause he played junior ball with the congo. France is out of the question.

I don't see the Pacers picking him up. Tim Duncan caught my eye his sophmore year and I have followed him since, I might just do the same with this kid.

LG33
01-10-2008, 02:49 PM
From the Boston Globe:

Rivers said he has an "amazing amount of respect" for Boston College coach Al Skinner for developing three NBA players: Charlotte rookie forward Jared Dudley, New Jersey rookie forward Sean Williams, and Timberwolves forward Craig Smith. Dudley made his Boston pro debut last night.

"All of the guys that go in come out to be players," Rivers said. "It's not a coincidence. There are schools that are clear to me, in my opinion, that turn out to be, because of the way they play and the way they are coached, that have an upper hand with their players.
"Al plays rough, tough defense like the NBA. They're physical and he's a big coach on execution. One of the things a lot of players struggle to do on this end is execute and read. [BC players] seem to all know how to do that."
Dudley entered last night averaging 4.3 points and 3.2 rebounds, and did not score in three minutes. When asked about Skinner's influence on preparing him for the NBA, Dudley said, "We're not buddy-buddy. We don't talk on the phone all the time. I talked to him very rarely at the school. He gives you that coach relationship you're going to have in the NBA. When people come to our practices now, [they say] it could be a joke because you don't do a lot of running. That's how it is in the NBA. We shoot a lot and we scrimmage here and there. That's what we do.
"He prepared me for the NBA life, practices. You have to make your own work ethic. For someone that's lazy, you're not going to be good at BC and you're not going to be good after."

Tyrese Rice from Boston College in the second round!

Kofi
01-10-2008, 03:43 PM
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3112/tsiv0.gif

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1788/statssv0.gif

You can just look at the stat sheet and tell this guy has a special overall game. 5.6 rebounds and 3.6 assists in only 26 minutes? Wow. His FG% has blown up, his 3 point shot looks improved, and his turnovers are way down. And he's known as a very good defender who plays with great passion and intensity. I've seen others compare him to Ron Artest, and I can definitely see the comparison. And with his size and athleticism, he could almost certainly be a SG in the NBA. Right now he's #13 in NBADraft.net's 2008 draft, and we're picking #12. If we can't get one of the "big name" players, this guy looks like he'd be a nice consolation prize. Provided he declares.

jmoney2584
01-10-2008, 04:14 PM
If anyone wants to witness the range of EJ take a look at the Film Session thread on the front page of http://www.insidethehall.com/ today. Its a good little IU web page for the die hard fans. Give it a look if you get a chance, you'll be impressed.

Rajah Brown
01-10-2008, 05:24 PM
Kofi-

There is a critical difference between Smith and Artest. About 35
pounds of natural, very dense (which is why he looks 230-235, but
weighs more like 255) muscle.

And he's a SF isn't he ?

tdubb03
01-10-2008, 10:08 PM
Anyone see that Kenny George guy on UNC Asheville? 7'7"+ 360lbs! Dude would make Shaq look small.

He's got a long injury history, but man talk about a cog in the middle.

Naptown_Seth
01-11-2008, 12:07 AM
Anyone see that Kenny George guy on UNC Asheville? 7'7"+ 360lbs! Dude would make Shaq look small.

He's got a long injury history, but man talk about a cog in the middle.
Yeah, but then Tyler H dunked on him. 2 hands no less. Not quite cog material on that one.

DisapointedPacerFan
01-12-2008, 04:38 PM
This years draft is going to rival 03 and 96.

Can't miss stars (assuming all the freshman declare):
OJ Mayo
Derrick Rose
Eric Gordon
Kevin Love
Michael Beasley
Donte Green

Guys with slightly more risk, but star potential:
DeAndre Jordan
Blake Griffin
Nicolas Batum
Chase Buddinger
Roy Hibbert
Hasheem Thabeet
Darren Collison
Brooke Lopez

Those 14 guys are going to make huge impacts wherever they go.

Assuming we keep our lottery bound pick, we need to get Beasely, Gordon, or Roy Hibbert. If JO decides to not pick up the 20M player option on the table, then we need to get Beasely...try and trade a package of Tinsley and 2nd rounders for another lotto pick and pick up Eric Gordon...how sweet would that look for the future...

PG- Eric Gordon
SG- Danny Granger
SF- Shawne Williams
PF- Ike Diogu
C- Michael Beasely

Ok, maybe the Gordon part was just me getting carried away, but I'm serious about getting Michael Beasely with our pick. JO is going downhill now, and I can't find a better young C who has the potential to be great than him.

Naptown_Seth
01-12-2008, 04:49 PM
Just a bump on the games today, maybe too late for people. I Tivo'd the USC/WS game but did watch some if it. To me Mayo is fine but Floyd and that team overall are not that good. I don't think you judge Mayo on carrying that roster.

Right now I'm recording the big UConn/G'town game and then AZ/Houston, return of Bayless.

It's too bad that Gordon is moving up and out of Pacers range. No different than if the Pacers had kept their pick last year and watched Conley go long before their pick came up.


I caught just a small bit of Lopez (Stanford) the other day. My early impression is that he's got a dash of Noah to him in how he moves. Not sure if that's good or bad as Noah himself has yet to prove himself one way or the other.

indygeezer
01-12-2008, 05:11 PM
Wait though, I'm expecting the P's to drop way down in the standings and so insure themselves more "ping-pong balls" in this year's lottery. Who knows what could happen.

croz24
01-12-2008, 05:52 PM
ej is worth much more to this team than what beasley would be

Major Cold
01-12-2008, 06:08 PM
Homerly speaking Ej is the way to go. But if you have not watched Beasley then you are missing Kemp reincarnated (without the junk).

Will Galen
01-12-2008, 06:08 PM
Wait though, I'm expecting the P's to drop way down in the standings and so insure themselves more "ping-pong balls" in this year's lottery. Who knows what could happen.

Our luck, we will finish 11th, and then the three teams behind us will get lucky in the lottery and get the first three picks and push us back to 14th and a good player will slip to 13th.

Rajah Brown
01-12-2008, 06:45 PM
I'll just reiterate what I said earlier in this thread in post #19.
I didn't see anything in the Arizona-Houston game to change
my mind.

BoomBaby31
01-12-2008, 08:29 PM
My dream draft would be:

1st Round:PG Eric Gordon Indiana
2nd Round:C Kenny George UNCA (7'8)

jmoney2584
01-12-2008, 08:59 PM
ATTENTION: Just in case no one is aware, there is one of the bigger college basketball games of the year on tomorow on CBS. IU vs. Illinois is showing at 4:30... if no one knows the story, there is a lot of bad blood between the programs 1) bc most Illinois fans are smug little punks 2) the White vs Pruitt matchup and 3) the whole story of how Gordon "decomitted" from his verbal agreement with U of I to come to IU and how the whole state of Illinois is super bitter bc they missed out on having the best player in the NCAA this year on their team. A lot of people (Illini fans) have expressed a lot of negativity torwards Gordon and Sampson this year and though the two may say it is just another Big Ten game, don't believe it for a second. Look for It to be really physical matchup with EJ putting up a hell of a show. This game should be only second to the 2/7 game AT Illinois where IU will face its most antagonistic crowd of the year for sure. Anyone who is an IU fan or is interested in seeing DJ and EJ perform who normally can't because of the Big Ten Network Nazis should tune in for some hardcore NCAA action following the Colts domination of the Chahhgahs. ...oh yea, Go Pacers???

indyman37
01-12-2008, 09:38 PM
Kenny George is a waste of height. I can't believe you guys just want another David Harrison on the team.

Robertmto
01-12-2008, 10:57 PM
My dream draft would be:

1st Round:PG Eric Gordon Indiana
2nd Round:C Kenny George UNCA (7'8)

QFMFT

BoomBaby31
01-13-2008, 01:16 AM
Kenny George is a waste of height. I can't believe you guys just want another David Harrison on the team.

David Harrison plus 8 INCHES!!! lol

LG33
01-13-2008, 02:30 AM
Not to toot the Boston College horn, but Tyrese Rice had 32 pts, 8 assists, 6 boards, and 2 steals tonight. In other words, the guy can really play sometimes, and against weak competition.

jmoney2584
01-13-2008, 04:57 AM
Holla at some Tyrese Rice for sure. DeAndre Jordan only put up like 14 and 9 tonight but geeeeez did you see that two handed dunk to start the game? That was a little Amare/Dwight **** right there, dammmnn

Naptown_Seth
01-14-2008, 01:40 AM
Wait though, I'm expecting the P's to drop way down in the standings and so insure themselves more "ping-pong balls" in this year's lottery. Who knows what could happen.
EJ is moving into Knicks/T'Wolves/Sonics/Griz/Heat range. Put some perspective on it, all of those teams are worse than Indy right now and as bad as the 2-8 for the Pacers has been, all those teams went 2-8 or worse. Miami dropped an 0-10 spot.


I freaking love those Kansas players, man are they well coached. Chalmers and Rush are nuts, very impressive all-around games they've got. I know the game yesterday was no challenge, but they still looked polished to me.

Stupid Love is playing his way out of the Pacers draft slot too. Ease up big man, save that for post-draft. ;)

How about Hibbert getting the best of Thabeet. That didn't go unnoticed by scouts. Hibbert needed that bad.

Bayless drew 20 freaking FTs vs Houston. Wade of the NCAA. ;)


BTW, with college drafting I don't really care much about the numbers because there are college methods of getting stats and then there are things that will work in the NBA. Some guys have scoring moves or defensive plays or whatever that work in the NCAA situation that get blown up by the NBA athletes.

Why I loved Rip coming out of UConn - the variety of go-to scoring moves with and without the ball. I figured he's always find a way to score, and Reggie had already proven that weight wasn't a factor for a pure shooter.

jmoney2584
01-14-2008, 03:35 AM
Yea Bayless is really looking solid. I'm also impressed with DJ Augustin, seems to be able to distribute the ball well and has a knack for scoring as well. I'm afraid that the pacers are going to keep up this mediocre crap all year and end up sticking us with someone like tyler hansbrough (whom i feel does not have a game that translates to the pros very well, sure in college but i'd like to see him try that **** he did to Kenny George on Dwight Howard, please) or Roy Hibbert. While i know Hibbert has talent I just feel he is really sofy and I have never seen a whole lot of emotion from him. Now, I don't see him play all that often but everyday i check the ESPN rundowns and he just seems kind of dull. I still think DeAndre Jordan will be a nice NBA player, not right away due to the need to gain some size for the position he plays, but he has the size and athleticism of a Jon Bender without the injury hang-ups.

Robertmto
01-14-2008, 03:49 AM
DJ White would be perfect for the Wiz or the Pacers, both teams need another post presence that can score and rebound, and he will be available in both of our pick ranges more than likely.

Hailey12
01-14-2008, 04:04 AM
DJ White would be perfect for the Wiz or the Pacers, both teams need another post presence that can score and rebound, and he will be available in both of our pick ranges more than likely.

What do you mean by another. Because the last time I checked JO and Brendan Haywood are both equally as pathetic at both scoring and rebounding these days. If you where referring to someone else on the pacers or wizards being that presence in the post I would like to know.:brilliant

Oh yea nice David Harrison Avatar.

Robertmto
01-14-2008, 04:06 AM
What do you mean by another. Because the last time I checked JO and Brendan Haywood are both equally as pathetic at both scoring and rebounding these days. If you where referring to someone else on the pacers or wizards being that presence in the post I would like to know.:brilliant

Oh yea nice David Harrison Avatar.

Brendan Haywood > JO :p

jmoney2584
01-14-2008, 04:47 PM
Brendan Haywood > JO :p

Sad..but oh so true. Haywood owns JO, has his way with JO's wife...and probably shows up on christmas to take his presents too.

Now, maybe not ideal for our team...but am i the only one who would not be against having Gordon and DJ on our team ? I know, I know...coming from me the hardcore IU fan...I just think DJ plays with his heart on his sleeve with a class act personality and Gordon is well...Gordon, we need those type of players, not to mention what it would do for the fan base and selling tickets. Call it..keeping it in the family. DJ was Big Ten player of the week for the third time this year btw.

croz24
01-14-2008, 05:37 PM
pacers need to do everything they can to get 3 top 20/lotto picks to ensure eric gordon will be a pacer...

Naptown_Seth
01-19-2008, 01:44 PM
Bump just because the Gordon specific thread is taking over some of this discussion and at least some of us would like a one-stop shot on player opinions. Not anti the EJ thread, just keeping this around and on people's minds. :)

Upcoming games of interest.
TODAY
ESPN
Kansas St (Beasley) vs T A&M (Jordan)
Syracuse - Greene (on now)

CBS
OSU (Koufos) vs Tenn (T Smith)
UCLA - Love, Collison
vs
USC - Mayo, Jefferson
that's a must watch for draft interests IMO

Monday 21st
ESPN
G'town (Hibbert) vs Syracuse (Greene)

22nd
ESPN
Tenn - TSmith

24th
UCLA on FSN (Love, Collison)

Next Saturday, 26th

FSN
AZ - Bayless, Budinger
USC - Mayo, Jefferson

ESPN
G'town - Hibbert
Memphis - Rose (and Doug-Rob, Dorsey)
T A&M - Jordan

CBS
UConn vs IU
EJ vs Thabeat

Naptown_Seth
01-19-2008, 01:46 PM
BTW, my current XL list doesn't feature Augustin (TX) or Kansas games

Kansas
Jan 23rd ESPN
Feb 2 ABC
Feb 4 ESPN
Feb 11 ESPN vs Texas
Feb 23 CBS
Feb 27 ESPN
Mar 1 ESPN
Mar 3 ESPN
Mar 8 CBS

TX (Augustin)
Jan 21 ESPN
Jan 30 ESPN2
Feb 6 ESPN2
Feb 9 ABC
Feb 11 ESPN
Feb 16 ESPN
Feb 18 ESPN
Feb 23 ABC
Feb 25 ESPN
Mar 1 CBS
Mar 9 ESPN

NBADraft.net still has Rush (KS) going 28th. No freaking way does that happen if his year keeps up. If Indy lets him go by before that they should be shot, unless they have some solid lottery pick slot instead. And if he's really still projected there then they really need to find a way to trade for a late first pick.

They have Chalmers coming out next year (doubt it) and going in the early 2nd round (double doubt it). Maybe I'm just misreading their games, but they look very NBA polished to me. Both are well over 40% from the college 3 this season.

The also have Douglas-Roberts coming out next year and going even later in the draft than Chalmers. Either 2009 is loaded beyond belief or I'm a total idiot. Something doesn't mesh with how these guys have been playing.


edit - HoopsHype has D-Rob going this year and 13th. Much more realistic to me. No Chalmers (declaration guess?) but they have Rush going 28th too with the Pacers taking Lopez (PF). Now Rush is listed as an SF but he's a shooter and even their comparison (HHype) is to Eddie Jones, which to me seems about right by style at least.

I haven't watched much Lopez yet but I just don't see a PF as the pick. A star pure C like Hibbert, maybe Love or White if a move can be made, but for the most part I don't know why quality shooters that can defend at the SG spot would be overlooked.

owl
01-19-2008, 03:04 PM
Would Hibbert work in an offense like the Pacers? The Pacers need a center who can score,move, rebound and defend.

jmoney2584
01-19-2008, 04:26 PM
Hibbert has a lot of skill, but he just really seems soft to me.

I would love to have DJ Augustin on this squad for sure as well. Really knows how to get the ball rollin..

Naptown_Seth
01-19-2008, 04:28 PM
Just a last second bump, the best game of the weekend potentially, USC/UCLA, is CBS national but in Indy they took the OSU/Tenn game instead.

Hope you have a national feed instead. ;)

Kofi
01-19-2008, 09:51 PM
Donte Greene looks to have one of the highest ceilings in the draft (provided he comes out). If we're looking for J.O.'s replacement and an athletic, quick PF to play in an up-tempo offense, he could be the guy. He's at #9 on DraftExpress' current mock.

JayRedd
01-20-2008, 05:14 AM
Just a last second bump, the best game of the weekend potentially, USC/UCLA, is CBS national but in Indy they took the OSU/Tenn game instead.

Hope you have a national feed instead. ;)

Yall missed out...That was a good one.

Mayo was lackluster though.

Love, however, played lovely. But I'm really not sure he can overcome his lack of athleticism to translate his effectiveness to the NBA. He sorta has that Tyler Hansborough-esque "the way you score clearly isn't gonna work when everyone is 6'8' and can jump out the gyn" disease. He's got a little Luke Walton type feel for the game in him though, which is nice.

Rajah Brown
01-20-2008, 09:01 AM
Kofi-

Good call. Greene would fit nicely at PF in O'B's system. But with
Williams likely being groomed for that spot (unless DG is traded),
I still prefer the Bayless kid.

Robertmto
01-20-2008, 11:40 PM
DJ White would sell more tix tho.....

Kofi
01-20-2008, 11:53 PM
DJ White would sell more tix tho.....

And I'm sure Steve Alford would've sold more tickets than Reggie Miller back in 1987. The fact is, Donte Greene is a much better NBA prospect than D.J. White. I like D.J., I think he could be a very serviceable PF, but Donte has star potential.

MyFavMartin
01-20-2008, 11:59 PM
DJ White would sell more tix tho.....

Could get Courtney Lee from West Kentucky... Indy product. hoopshype has him at #23 in 1st but nbadraft has him #51 (21st in the second round). Workouts and camps will help him.

We do need some post prospect. Maybe we could pick up a draft pick sometime...

Plaisted seems interesting. I've seen Hendrix from Alabama and he looked very impressive. Knetucky has a guy, Patterson, who will be good, but I don't think he'll be out this year.

Robertmto
01-21-2008, 06:59 AM
Could get Courtney Lee from West Kentucky... Indy product. hoopshype has him at #23 in 1st but nbadraft has him #51 (21st in the second round). Workouts and camps will help him.

We do need some post prospect. Maybe we could pick up a draft pick sometime...

Plaisted seems interesting. I've seen Hendrix from Alabama and he looked very impressive. Knetucky has a guy, Patterson, who will be good, but I don't think he'll be out this year.

The names Courtney Lee and DJ White have two different meanings to casual Indiana fans. One played high school ball here and went to an average western kentucky school. The other went to Indiana University and won many games. Which do you think would have a better shot at improving attendance and PR?

jmoney2584
01-21-2008, 06:39 PM
Hell, lets just bring EJ AND DJ here...it would be good for team chemistry, attendance, PR, and just plain 'ol fun

Naptown_Seth
01-21-2008, 06:41 PM
Yall missed out...That was a good one.

Mayo was lackluster though.

Love, however, played lovely. But I'm really not sure he can overcome his lack of athleticism to translate his effectiveness to the NBA. He sorta has that Tyler Hansborough-esque "the way you score clearly isn't gonna work when everyone is 6'8' and can jump out the gyn" disease. He's got a little Luke Walton type feel for the game in him though, which is nice.
I kind of agree. He's got the Sean May undersized thing, big by college standards but in over his head in the NBA. But May was becoming a decent contributor it seemed. With Love it's his passing. He's going to be more like Ike when it comes to points/rebounds, but obviously Ike is a horrible passer. Ike that could throw solid cross-court skips or half court outlets would be really nice.

Again, I think the UCLA/IU problem could be brewing ala Alford/Reggie. Locals will want White but it seems like the smart pick would be Love (if both were still on the table). More so when you look at where the Pacers seem to be headed for a draft slot. Doesn't seem like a EJ or Beasley choice will be on their hands. ;)


I sure do wish the Pacers could get a 2nd pick for 08, even if it was 20-25th. Not looking for game changers, but you could shore up the team with some of the guys that might fall into that range. It also might help move some guys that you were waiting on depth to do something about.

jmoney2584
01-21-2008, 08:08 PM
Syracuse and G-Town playing on ESPN right now...Donte Green playing decent early. He has a smooth looking jumper for a 6-11 player. Just nailed a beautiful contested three..

Kofi
01-21-2008, 08:18 PM
Greene looks to be something special. Probably somewhere between Charlie Villanueva and Kevin Durant. Like I said earlier, he could make a nice replacement for J.O.

jmoney2584
01-21-2008, 08:49 PM
ESpecially in JOB's fast paced offense

CableKC
01-21-2008, 10:10 PM
I don't know as much about College Basketball as you guys....so I wanted to get your thoughts on these Big Men that appear to be within our range in the Lottery ( some talked about already ):

Jason Thompson - Currently 14th pick in NBADraft.net

Roy Hibbert - Currently 13th pick in NBADraft.net

Hasheem Thabeet - Currently 11th pick in NBADraft.net

Given our current love of Small Ball....which I hope goes away soon....it seems that we would need a solid Defensive Big Man that can block shots, run the floor really well and rebound. It seems that these guys can do these things....some more effective on the offensive end...and some more on the defensive end.

Also, as Seth has alluded to....it seems that players that come out of top notch programs ( like Kansas ) seem to have better fundamentals. It would seem that they would be better fits for the NBA. Does that factor into how you would rate certain players?

jmoney2584
01-21-2008, 10:18 PM
Don't know so much on Thompson.

Hibbert- Solid fundamentals, smart player who is good at hitting cutters from the high-post. I've always said he looks a little slow and doesn't seem to get really fired up. Kind of soft, doesn't play that physical of defense in college which translates to "you will get your butt dunked on" in the NBA. Should be a better rebounder than what he is too...

Thabeet- Not much of an offensive game to speak of, if he did he would be going much higher in the draft as he is pretty athletic and has very good shot blocking instincts. At 7'3 he could be a defensive anchor if he added some weight. As of now he would be a great weak-side shot blocker, like a Marcus Camby type with more length. Still really raw though IMO. Could definitely be out-muscled by anyone in the NBA at his position.

Young
01-21-2008, 10:39 PM
I have said it before but I am just not a fan of Hibbert. I shouldn't say that. I don't think he will be big time NBA player. Maybe a good backup but no centerpiece. Not someone I would want the Pacers to draft unless they had a late first round pick.

In the NBA now you see more of guys like Boris Diaw and Al Harrington playing center. It seems that is where the game is going. Small ball. You need quickness. And if we plan on sticking with Jim O'Brien's philosophy for any length of time we need quickness, that is not Hibbert.

What I like about Roy is that he does play to his strengths. Very complete player especially on offense. Nice touch and good free throw shooter. Can pass the ball which you don't see from big men especially low post ones. He rebounds well and has no character issues that I know of. His lack of quickness and speed hurts him on defense though. That will be tough for him to overcome in the NBA especially if he is playing for the Pacers who want to run.

Thabeet is the ultimate high risk high reward. Great physical tools. I don't care what he does on offense if he can turn into a dominate defender and rebounder he is the center I would want for the Pacers. But you know it's a long shot he turns out that well.

CableKC
01-22-2008, 12:01 AM
I have said it before but I am just not a fan of Hibbert. I shouldn't say that. I don't think he will be big time NBA player. Maybe a good backup but no centerpiece. Not someone I would want the Pacers to draft unless they had a late first round pick.

In the NBA now you see more of guys like Boris Diaw and Al Harrington playing center. It seems that is where the game is going. Small ball. You need quickness. And if we plan on sticking with Jim O'Brien's philosophy for any length of time we need quickness, that is not Hibbert.

What I like about Roy is that he does play to his strengths. Very complete player especially on offense. Nice touch and good free throw shooter. Can pass the ball which you don't see from big men especially low post ones. He rebounds well and has no character issues that I know of. His lack of quickness and speed hurts him on defense though. That will be tough for him to overcome in the NBA especially if he is playing for the Pacers who want to run.

Thabeet is the ultimate high risk high reward. Great physical tools. I don't care what he does on offense if he can turn into a dominate defender and rebounder he is the center I would want for the Pacers. But you know it's a long shot he turns out that well.
The question for Small Ball becomes what you want from your players. With the high volume of shots that this offense generates, is it a requirement that all 5 of our players be capable scorers?

I would hope that the answer is maybe....but IMHO not a requirement. Rebounding and defense is as paramount if not a greater requirement. From what I have seen of Small Ball and even before we went to Small Ball is that we take a lot of quick shots where we miss and then have to quickly run back on defense. A Big Man that can keep up with this offense so that we can get that extra rebound and 2nd shot would be helpful.

What I want from the draft is what I wish JONeal is now ( or what he was 2-3 seasons ago ).....a Big Man that can rebound, defend the paint, block shots, run very well ( A MUST ) and can efficiently score in the Low-Post on the 8-10 FGA that he gets.

It sounds like Roy Hibbert can do all that EXCEPT for having the necessary foot speed to keep up in this offense/defense.

From what I have been reading....I wouldn't mind having a player like Thabeet. It sounds like he's a rebounding/defensive Monster that can run but more raw on the offensive end.

jmoney2584
01-22-2008, 12:34 AM
I have said it before but I am just not a fan of Hibbert. I shouldn't say that. I don't think he will be big time NBA player. Maybe a good backup but no centerpiece. Not someone I would want the Pacers to draft unless they had a late first round pick.

What I like about Roy is that he does play to his strengths. Very complete player especially on offense. Nice touch and good free throw shooter. Can pass the ball which you don't see from big men especially low post ones. He rebounds well and has no character issues that I know of. His lack of quickness and speed hurts him on defense though. That will be tough for him to overcome in the NBA especially if he is playing for the Pacers who want to run.

Thabeet is the ultimate high risk high reward. Great physical tools. I don't care what he does on offense if he can turn into a dominate defender and rebounder he is the center I would want for the Pacers. But you know it's a long shot he turns out that well.

EDIT on that Rommie. Hibbert is shooting free-throws at a 60% clip this year and his career average is in the mid 60's as well. He DOES have nice touch around the glass though with POTENTIAL (key word here) to extend that to 14-16 feet. He isn't a physical player for his size though (7'2" 275 lbs.), and can sometimes fade into the background on defense. When you are that big in college, you need to control the paint and he doesn't do that very well. Add that up with not being very quick and he isn't a good pick for our team at all.

If we chose to go big with our pick I would like to get someone like Donte Green (6'11 226 lbs., a little small but will put on weight and resemble a better shooting, quicker young JO) or DeAndre Jordan (7'0 240lbs.) who is extremely athletic but lacks some IQ at this point i think. Jordan would be a pure "on potential" pick because he could really be something special with his athleticism and bulking him up to about 260. Green is the better choice in this though, because of his outside shooting ability (leads syracuse in 3PM).

Naptown_Seth
01-22-2008, 12:41 AM
Roy Hibbert - Currently 13th pick in NBADraft.net

Hasheem Thabeet - Currently 11th pick in NBADraft.net
I only got to see bits of the G'town/UConn game last week or so. Tonight I watched the first half closely just to watch those two play.

Hibbert - He's got the size and length, but he moves physically like he's extremely tentative or passive. He made a very physical block coming from the high post, but that almost seemed out of place. He wasn't fighting for the low block and he didn't show any NBA quality post moves.

I like 4 year guys and he comes off like a quality person, but right now I'm not liking him with a pick that high.

Thabeet - now he had less impact overall and got lots of double help the few times Hibbert did get posted, but he showed more confidence in his physical presence. One of his few impact plays was to slip off Hibbert on a guard drive and get the big swat. And oh by the way Hibbert failed to fade off him and make himself available for the pass which would have saved the play.

Thabeet comes off as raw but not really awkward. Hibbert will work the post for you a little, but not as a main threat. I'm not sure he could be equal to a calm David Harrison. Thabeet is perhaps more like a Tony Davis in the making, but then Antonio ended up in Europe before joining the Pacers. He might be an undersized C or a PF with an emphasis on the power (rebounds, defense, explosiveness). He's not that yet and might never reach that.

If both are on the board I think I go with Thabeet right now.


edit - Thabeet is taller than Hibbert? Sure didn't look it to me, thus my "undersized C" comment. He looked all PF.

Kofi
01-22-2008, 12:47 AM
I prefer Thabeet over Hibbert. He's a little bigger (taller/longer), and far more mobile/athletic.

Thabeet is looking better offensively this season. His points per game has risen 10.5, still not a lot, but over 40% better than last years 6.2. And even better, his free throw shooting has really improved - from 51% to 70%. He's clearly worked on it a lot, showing he has a nice work ethic. There are some guards in the NBA that can't hit 70% from the lines. He's still not exactly Wilt Chamberlain, but you can clearly see signs of an offensive game. I'd take him, then hire Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to teach him the same things he taught Andrew Bynum. And even if he never amounts to much offensively, he's still a defensive anchor for the next decade.

Worst Case - bigger Adonal Foyle
Best Case - Dikembe Mutombo

CableKC
01-22-2008, 12:59 AM
edit - Thabeet is taller than Hibbert? Sure didn't look it to me, thus my "undersized C" comment. He looked all PF.
Both of them are legit 7 footers.....both of which are listed as 7 foot 2 ( Hibbert ) and 7 foot 3 ( Thabeet ).

CableKC
01-22-2008, 01:02 AM
I prefer Thabeet over Hibbert. He's a little bigger (taller/longer), and far more mobile/athletic.

Thabeet is looking better offensively this season. His points per game has risen 10.5, still not a lot, but over 40% better than last years 6.2. And even better, his free throw shooting has really improved - from 51% to 70%. He's clearly worked on it a lot, showing he has a nice work ethic. There are some guards in the NBA that can't hit 70% from the lines. He's still not exactly Wilt Chamberlain, but you can clearly see signs of an offensive game. I'd take him, then hire Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to teach him the same things he taught Andrew Bynum. And even if he never amounts to much offensively, he's still a defensive anchor for the next decade.

Worst Case - bigger Adonal Foyle
Best Case - Dikembe Mutombo
If we can't get within sniffing distance of a top 5 pick....which is unlikely.....it looks like decent Big Men are the type of players that will probably fall to us.

I would be okay with your worst and best case scenarios. Thabeet would be my pick as well.

Is the level of competition and the conference that he plays in is a good guage of how well he plays?

Will Galen
01-23-2008, 03:34 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=FreshmanWatch-080123&univLogin02=stateChanged

Draft Watch: First round could have record number of freshmen

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/columnists/Ford_Chad_55.jpg (http://x.go.com/cgi/x.pl?goto=http://search.espn.go.com/keyword/search?searchString=chad_ford&name=SEARCH_m_archive&srvc=sz) By Chad Ford
<!-- promo plug --><!-- end story header --><!-- begin left column --><!-- begin page tools --> ESPN.com
Updated: January 23, 2008
<!-- end page tools --><!-- begin story body --><!-- template inline -->Last season's freshman class was one of the most heralded groups in college basketball history. And with reason. In the 2007 NBA draft, the top two picks were freshmen and a total of six freshmen were drafted in the lottery. Overall, eight freshmen went in the first round. On top of that, a handful of other freshmen, including Chase Budinger (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19026), Brook Lopez (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19042), Darrell Arthur (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19062), D.J. Augustin (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19083) and Ty Lawson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19034) would've been first-round picks if they declared for the draft.Clearly the NBA's new age restriction is impacting the demographics of the draft. But last season's class was special and everyone knew that going into the season.

Everyone knew this season's freshman class would be special, too. However, I'm not sure anyone was ready to predict that this class could produce more first-rounders than last season's class. But it's a possibility now.

Since July 1, we've been frequently talking about five freshmen -- Kansas State's Michael Beasley (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19133), Memphis' Derrick Rose (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19132), Indiana's Eric Gordon (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19131), Texas A&M's DeAndre Jordan (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19136) and USC's O.J. Mayo (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19129) -- as being the top five overall prospects in the draft. But that's just skimming the surface with this class. A plethora of other freshmen could crack the lottery and first round in this year's draft and shatter last year's record.

After talking with numerous NBA scouts and executives, here's a look at the other freshmen who could make some noise come June.

Potential lottery picks

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0122/nba_g_greene_65.jpg

Donte Greene (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19135), F, Syracuse
At this point, Greene looks poised to make it six out of six freshmen at the start of the first round. He's drawing some comparisons to Marvin Williams and Rudy Gay with his size, athleticism and ability to shoot. But the truth is, as a freshman, he's already having a more productive season than either Williams or Gay had in college.
Just as importantly, he's also becoming a leader on the team, demanding the ball in crucial situations and delivering for Syracuse down the stretch. He's not quite the talent that Carmelo Anthony was for the Orange, but he's pretty darn good.
We've been steadily moving him up the draft board and he took a big leap in our last rankings, moving all the way up to No. 6 on our latest big board.
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0122/nba_g_bayless_65.jpg

Jerryd Bayless (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19137), G, Arizona
Everyone knew coming into the season that Bayless' offensive abilities and athleticism made him an excellent prospect. The questions were about his size and position. In high school he was a shoot-first 2-guard, but at 6-foot-3 (and that may be generous) he's undersized to play the 2 in the NBA.
Bayless has been playing the point for Arizona this season with mixed results. He's definitely shown that he can be a big-time scorer -- often stealing the spotlight from Budinger, who is a lottery prospect. He can kill you from long range, midrange, in drives to the basket and at the free-throw line. Bayless, however, has struggled while running the point. He's been turnover prone and struggles to break down defenses in ways other than taking it to the basket for a score. His assist-to-turnover ratio hasn't been great, and at times he has failed to be a leader on the floor.
But scouts have seen enough to believe that he can be a combo guard in the pros. His combination of elite athleticism, shooting ability and quickness makes him an excellent NBA prospect -- one scout compared him to Monta Ellis with a better shot and higher basketball IQ. Another to Gilbert Arenas.
A straw poll of executives found that most had him in the late lottery, which means we've had him ranked a little too low for the past few months. He's moved up on our board.
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0122/nba_g_love_65.jpg

Kevin Love (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19130), C, UCLA
We're cheating a bit on Love. Everyone knows who he is and he certainly hasn't lacked the spotlight as UCLA's starting center. However, there continue to be questions about his NBA abilities.
On one hand, he's got the power and basketball IQ to be a great NBA player. He is an amazing passer and has well-developed moves in the paint for a big guy.
On the other hand, he is very undersized to play center in the NBA and even lacks good size to play the 4 in the pros. He's also had a history of knee problems and weight issues and struggles against long, athletic players.
Scouts continue to have mixed views on him. A handful have him as a top 10 pick, while some have him in the 20s. We've been compromising somewhere in the middle until scouts can answer this question convincingly: What's the difference between Love and UNC's Tyler Hansbrough (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=18875) -- a guy most NBA scouts have ranked as a bubble first-rounder?
The answer has been that Love is bulkier and a smarter player than UNC's standout big man. But does he really possess those attributes to a significantly greater degree than Hansbrough?
http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/draft2008/headshots/19155.jpg

Kosta Koufos (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19155), C, Ohio State
Koufos came into the season looking like a lock for the top 10 and a possible top 5 pick. Of all the heralded freshmen, he's been the most disappointing. Although his overall numbers are very solid for a freshman, Koufos has come up seriously lacking against major opponents like North Carolina, Michigan State, Illinois and Iowa.
His excellent play for the Greek National team this past summer seems to have carried over only so far. Don't get me wrong, scouts still think Koufos is a terrific prospect with great size, basketball IQ and the ability to stretch the defense with a silky-smooth jumper. But his inconsistency against college big men, lack of rebounding and so-so shot-blocking numbers all have scouts saying he may need to wait another year if he really wants to strike gold in the upper half of the lottery. If he were to declare now, scouts believe he'd go somewhere between the late lottery and mid-first round.
<hr> First-round locks

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0123/nba_g_hickson_65.jpg

J. J. Hickson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19215), F, North Carolina State
Hickson is an athletic big man with an NBA frame and the ability to score from 15 feet and in. He's shown good ability as a shot-blocker and a rebounder and has been shooting with extreme efficiency from the field.
Although scouts say he's raw and could use another year in school, the combination of length, athleticism and efficency is usually a potent one come draft time. His stock is harder to judge because of his rawness, but most scouts have him going somewhere in the mid-first round.
http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/draft2008/headshots/19077.jpg

Bill Walker (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19077), G/F, Kansas State
After putting Walker on the "Who's Not" list at the end of December, he's exploded, averaging 22.5 ppg over his last five games. Walker's explosiveness is beginning to return and he's showing off a new and improved jump shot. Over his last five games he's hit 13 3s and is shooting 48 percent from beyond the arc.
The combination of Walker's elite athleticism and his improved shooting touch tantalizes every scout. The comparisons to Vince Carter are realistic and Walker is beginning to show again why scouts had him ranked as a top 5 prospect in the draft before his ACL surgery last year.
If Walker can continue to produce at this level and find a way to share the ball with Beasley, he has a chance to shoot way up the boards. Questions about the long-term health of his knee may keep him out of the lottery, but Walker is looking more and more like a guy who could have his name called in the teens.
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0123/nba_g_ogilvy_65.jpg

Andrew Ogilvy (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19219), C, Vanderbilt
The big man from Australia has been one of the steadiest freshmen in college basketball. He's a throwback player with excellent fundamentals on the offensive end and a wide body that allows him to hold his position on the post. He's very tough, has soft hands and is even deadly from the free-throw line -- how often do you hear that about a center?
His serious lack of athleticism and quickness and questions about his size and rebounding ability keep him from being an elite prospect -- but there are scouts who see a little Brad Miller in him.
Given the love affair NBA teams have with centers, it looks like Ogilvy would be a lock for the first round if he enters. Whether he can rise higher probably depends on two key workout measurements -- standing reach and athletic ability.
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0123/nba_g_jefferson_65.jpg

Davon Jefferson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=18876), F, USC
Jefferson has been on the NBA radar screen for years and after a long wait he's finally at USC and living up to his billing as an athletic forward who could be a game changer in the NBA.
Physically, he has it all: great size, length, a maturing NBA body and elite athleticism both in terms of jumping ability and overall quickness and speed.
Skillwise, Jefferson has a long way to go. He gets most of his points running the floor, slamming home an alley-oop or crashing the offensive boards. He has no 3-point range and just so-so shooting ability from midrange. His ballhandling skills are a problem and he seems to lack great basketball IQ.
Even his upside is tempered by the fact that he's a 21-year-old freshman who failed to qualify academically for college the past two seasons.
Still, Jefferson's raw abilities don't come along very often and he's putting up excellent numbers. That's probably enough to guarantee him a late first-round selection. I spoke with sources close to Jefferson who claim he's leaning strongly to declaring for the draft this year because of his age. It's probably a smart move from a draft stock perspective, though most GMs feel he definitely could use one more year of school.
<hr> First-round bubble

There's another group of talented freshmen who aren't seen as quite yet ready for the NBA. However, scouts believe that these eight players have lottery or mid-first-round potential in the future and could even sneak into the first round if they entered the draft this year. Here are a few quick hits on eight more freshmen to watch.
Austin Daye (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19214), F, Gonzaga
Scouts love his potential. His size and ability to score inside and especially from deep draw comparisons to everyone from Dirk Nowitzki to Kevin Durant. His thin frame and relative lack of minutes may keep him from being a high prospect this year unless he really explodes over the next few months. But next year? Expect him to be in the top 10 of our 2009 Big Board.
Blake Griffin (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19213), F, Oklahoma
A big, strong low-post beast who might have been a mid-first-round pick if not for his sprained knee in a game against Kansas last week. He's now expected to miss up to four weeks. That still gives him time to come back for March Madness, but he might be better off waiting a year and being a possible lottery pick in 2009. He reminds some scouts of Carlos Boozer.
Anthony Randolph (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19157), PF, LSU
A super athletic big man who reminds some scouts a little of LaMarcus Aldridge. He's equally comfortable with his back to the basket or shooting a 15-footer. He even has the ability to put the ball on the floor. He's also shown that he can be a big-time rebounder and shot-blocker. The knock on Randolph is a serious lack of strength. He gets pushed around on both ends of the floor and needs to hit the weight room. Like Daye and Griffin, if he declared, someone would take a chance on him in the first round. But if he stays, he has a chance to be a lottery pick next year.
Nick Calathes (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19153), G, Florida
Calathes is already one of the most complete players in college basketball. He can do a little of everything. He can play three positions on the floor, leads the SEC in assists, shoots the lights out with deep range and has a great basketball IQ. He's not a great athlete and needs to bulk up, but he's already got the rest of the package. Another year leading Florida could put him in the lottery. This year he'd be a likely late first-rounder.
Patrick Patterson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19151), PF, Kentucky
He's already a load in the middle. Patterson has a NBA body and athleticism and uses it to pound the defense into submission. He lacks ideal size at the 4 and is still very raw in the post, but he has the physical tools to be a very good prospect down the road. Another year and he could be a lottery pick. This year he'd probably be a late first-rounder.
Kyle Singler (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19134), F, Duke
Singler is a sweet-shooting forward who excels at just about every aspect of the game. He's a great shooter, sure, but he does a little of everything for Duke. He needs to add strength and improve his explosiveness, but he's another great prospect down the road who's already having a big impact for the Blue Devils.
James Harden (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19221), G, Arizona State
Harden, on paper, shouldn't be on this list. He's not a great athlete, nor is he particularly gifted as a ball handler or defender. But the guy can flat out score and has a killer jumper. He finds ways to score despite lacking great quickness. He has a number of moves to create space for himself. While he's not quite the marksman that Morris Almond was at Rice, there are some solid comparisons there. He's probably the guy on this list who would struggle to find his way into the first round this year, but down the road, he could be a first-round pick.
Others to watch: James Anderson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19226), G, Oklahoma State; DeJuan Blair (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19230), F, Pittsburgh; Gani Lawal (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19171), F, Georgia Tech; Johnny Flynn (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19160), PG, Syracuse; Corey Fisher (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19154), G, Villanova; Austin Freeman (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19150), G/F, Georgetown; Manny Harris (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19229), G, Michigan; Evan Turner (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19201), F, Ohio State

Naptown_Seth
01-23-2008, 03:58 PM
Is the level of competition and the conference that he plays in is a good guage of how well he (Thabeet) plays?
UConn, Gtown, Syracuse, all Big East with strong bigs going against each other.

The good news so far is that the Pacers can make a playoff run and still get a player with at least some impact.

jmoney2584
01-23-2008, 04:31 PM
UConn, Gtown, Syracuse, all Big East with strong bigs going against each other.

The good news so far is that the Pacers can make a playoff run and still get a player with at least some impact.

OR OR OR....wait for it...

WE CAN BOTCH THE SEASON AND MAKE A TRADE FOR A PICK AND GET *TWO* PLAYERS WITH A LOT OF IMPACT!!!! Holy crap I soiled myself

d_c
01-23-2008, 04:38 PM
edit - Thabeet is taller than Hibbert? Sure didn't look it to me, thus my "undersized C" comment. He looked all PF.

Thabeet is listed at 7'3" and is probably pretty close to that in real life. He's pretty damn tall.

http://uconn.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/hasheem_2006_07_20.jpg

MyFavMartin
01-23-2008, 05:29 PM
Heard a commentator on an AM sports radio show say that Bayless is a lot like Eric Gordon. He's shorter, but a very physical guy who can shoot from outside, but would prefer to drive the lane, draw the foul, and shoot free throws.

I don't know where the Pacers need more help, but they've obviously got their SF depth chart overflowing with Granger, Dunleavy, and Williams.

I'd be happy with Thabeet, ecstatic with Mayo. Anything better and I will be highly disappointed with how the season went or out buying myself some lucky lottery tickets!

CableKC
01-23-2008, 05:57 PM
UConn, Gtown, Syracuse, all Big East with strong bigs going against each other.

The good news so far is that the Pacers can make a playoff run and still get a player with at least some impact.
Unless the bottom falls out or we get really luck......I'm beginning to think that we would have a better pick of Big Men ( that would likely pan out ) in the 10 to 17 spots then finding a PG/SG.

croz24
01-24-2008, 05:11 AM
the pacers desperately need at least two picks from this draft. i don't think many people on here realize how deep and how much potential will be in this draft. i could easily see this as being one of the deepest drafts in memory...

Robertmto
01-25-2008, 02:32 PM
bump

idioteque
01-25-2008, 02:58 PM
Heard a commentator on an AM sports radio show say that Bayless is a lot like Eric Gordon. He's shorter, but a very physical guy who can shoot from outside, but would prefer to drive the lane, draw the foul, and shoot free throws.

I don't know where the Pacers need more help, but they've obviously got their SF depth chart overflowing with Granger, Dunleavy, and Williams.

I'd be happy with Thabeet, ecstatic with Mayo. Anything better and I will be highly disappointed with how the season went or out buying myself some lucky lottery tickets!

I have said it before and I will say it again: Mayo is the next Steve Francis/Stephon Marbury. Great player when it comes to individual stats, but a locker room cancer for sure. Best case scenerio is he has an Allen Iverson attitude, Iverson has matured over the years but did cause his fair share of problems during his early years in Philadelphia.

Mayo will never win an NBA title, mark my words.

I'd love to have Thabeet here. I think he has the ability to be one of the best defensive presences in the league for a long time, and be a 15-18 ppg scorer during his peak years.

CableKC
01-25-2008, 02:59 PM
the pacers desperately need at least two picks from this draft. i don't think many people on here realize how deep and how much potential will be in this draft. i could easily see this as being one of the deepest drafts in memory...
Isn't that what they said of last years draft?

Besides....the only way that we can get an additional draft pick is if we trade Granger....and that's not likely to happen. No one is going to trade their draft pick for any of our vets/long contracts. Ike and Shawne don't have any real value. If anything....the next closest player that may get us a draft pick...which is still unlikely is Foster....and I doubt that he could even fetch us a pick....unless it's in the late 20s to early 2nd round.

Young
01-25-2008, 03:05 PM
I have said it before and I will say it again: Mayo is the next Steve Francis/Stephon Marbury. Great player when it comes to individual stats, but a locker room cancer for sure. Best case scenerio is he has an Allen Iverson attitude, Iverson has matured over the years but did cause his fair share of problems during his early years in Philadelphia.

Thank you dc I have often wondered if I am the only one who sees this in Mayo.

I have nothing against Mayo I just don't think he is what everyone says he is. Yes super talented but he has had his share of problems already and I wouldn't touch him when you are talking about using a lottery pick on him.

Ownagedood
01-25-2008, 05:40 PM
I would definitely pick Gordon if I had the first pick in the draft.

Kofi
01-25-2008, 08:16 PM
I'd be thrilled if we could acquire a second 1st and use it to select Bill Walker.

CableKC
01-27-2008, 04:18 AM
UConn played IU on Saturday. I'm guessing that some of you watched the game. How did Thabeet look?

His box score didn't look that great....but how was his defense and overall game?

croz24
01-27-2008, 06:11 AM
Isn't that what they said of last years draft?

Besides....the only way that we can get an additional draft pick is if we trade Granger....and that's not likely to happen. No one is going to trade their draft pick for any of our vets/long contracts. Ike and Shawne don't have any real value. If anything....the next closest player that may get us a draft pick...which is still unlikely is Foster....and I doubt that he could even fetch us a pick....unless it's in the late 20s to early 2nd round.

foster, granger, and jo could all land us 1st round picks...nothing great but 1sts nonetheless...but you also realize that teams last year were essentially willing to sell their 1st round picks. i'd be willing to bet that phoenix would trade their atl 1st rounder for jeff in some sort of deal...and as far as last year's draft, yes, it was top heavy but there has never been the amount of freshman dominating college basketball as there has been this year. even if half of those players come out, this draft will be litered with potential. so i stand by my comment that this could be one of the better, deepest, most potential filled drafts in history...

hoopsforlife
01-27-2008, 07:16 AM
I have said it before and I will say it again: Mayo is the next Steve Francis/Stephon Marbury. Great player when it comes to individual stats, but a locker room cancer for sure. Best case scenerio is he has an Allen Iverson attitude, Iverson has matured over the years but did cause his fair share of problems during his early years in Philadelphia.

Mayo will never win an NBA title, mark my words.

I'd love to have Thabeet here. I think he has the ability to be one of the best defensive presences in the league for a long time, and be a 15-18 ppg scorer during his peak years.

Wow, He sounds like a perfect fit for the Pacers. :(

croz24
01-27-2008, 08:23 AM
lmao at dcpacersfan completely TRASHING oj mayo yet hyping arguably the most raw player in college basketball as potentially the great center...

Mourning
01-27-2008, 08:33 AM
lmao at dcpacersfan completely TRASHING oj mayo yet hyping arguably the most raw player in college basketball as potentially the great center...

I don't necessarily see what dcpacersfan wrote as a contradiction :).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Will Galen
01-27-2008, 09:23 AM
lmao at dcpacersfan completely TRASHING oj mayo yet hyping arguably the most raw player in college basketball as potentially the great center...

Regardless, if it comes down to the Pacers having their chose between those two players you know they will pick Thabeet.

As for the talk of trading Granger for a pick, the Pacers will never do that either. I could see them trading him for the draft rights for someone like Gordon though.

My thinking there is Danny is a favorite, but they would be trading him for someone who should be another favorite, while thinning the small forward ranks and trading for a need.

CableKC
01-27-2008, 01:39 PM
foster, granger, and jo could all land us 1st round picks...nothing great but 1sts nonetheless...but you also realize that teams last year were essentially willing to sell their 1st round picks. i'd be willing to bet that phoenix would trade their atl 1st rounder for jeff in some sort of deal...and as far as last year's draft, yes, it was top heavy but there has never been the amount of freshman dominating college basketball as there has been this year. even if half of those players come out, this draft will be litered with potential. so i stand by my comment that this could be one of the better, deepest, most potential filled drafts in history...
If Foster or JONeal can get us a 1st round pick next season....I would definitely consider it. Although I disagree about the trade of both player....Foster is the only one that can probably get us a late 1st round pick. Unless JONeal is able to return to ( the closest thing ) his regular self.....he has a 40 mil anchor tied to his injury-prone body ( which severely negates any value that he has ). As for Granger, unless he is traded alongside Tinsley or Murphy to get a 1st round pick and a very good player in return....he's one of our core players that we are rebuilding around.

CableKC
01-27-2008, 01:42 PM
Regardless, if it comes down to the Pacers having their chose between those two players you know they will pick Thabeet.

As for the talk of trading Granger for a pick, the Pacers will never do that either. I could see them trading him for the draft rights for someone like Gordon though.

My thinking there is Danny is a favorite, but they would be trading him for someone who should be another favorite, while thinning the small forward ranks and trading for a need.
I completely agree with you on this.....if Bird doesn't at least pick up the phone and call whatever team drafted Gordon and offer Granger....I will be upset. It's at least worth a try.

CableKC
01-27-2008, 01:44 PM
So.....did anyone watch the UConn/IU game?

Does anyone have any opinion of Thabeet based off of what they saw of him in the game?

Shade
01-27-2008, 01:51 PM
So.....did anyone watch the UConn/IU game?

Does anyone have any opinion of Thabeet based off of what they saw of him in the game?

It's hard to have an opinion of any center who plays against IU because IU doesn't have a legit center, and hasn't for some time now (Marco was good for about half a season).

avoidingtheclowns
01-27-2008, 01:52 PM
So.....did anyone watch the UConn/IU game?

Does anyone have any opinion of Thabeet based off of what they saw of him in the game?

i've never been terribly impressed by thabeet. at the beginning of the game he played solid defense on dj white -- good footwork. but eventually he'd just get caught and dj or cutting player would be wide open and thabeet would be nowhere close. so he still relies too much on being 7'3".

gordon had a few impressive moments but his defensive weaknesses were easily exposed.

EDIT: shade is right about the size. dj is 6'9" and i think deandre thomas is like 6'8" . so ultimately it is difficult to judge.

JayRedd
01-27-2008, 01:52 PM
So.....did anyone watch the UConn/IU game?

Does anyone have any opinion of Thabeet based off of what they saw of him in the game?

He's good. Just not for us. And not for Obie.

croz24
01-27-2008, 03:54 PM
I don't necessarily see what dcpacersfan wrote as a contradiction :).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

it's the fact that he's willing to knock a player who's proven himself at every level as at least a big time scorer/player, and then hype of somebody who has only proven to be an occasionally solid defender. the draft is a toss up either way, that's the contradiction. dc has no clue what oj mayo will turn out to be yet seems to think he knows exactly what thabeet (again most raw player in college basketball) will become...i don't want mayo on my team but nobody knows how any of the players will turn out...

Naptown_Seth
01-27-2008, 04:08 PM
So.....did anyone watch the UConn/IU game?

Does anyone have any opinion of Thabeet based off of what they saw of him in the game?
My Tivo puked on that one so I didn't get it. :mad:

I noticed low rebounds which would seem to be bad, but then you are looking for how more than how many.


As for Mayo, I've been catching up with some games I only saw part of. I was watching some more of the Wash St/USC game and I still think Mayo is going to get overlooked by some people and slip into someone's hands.

His game is NBA ready. In that game he showed an NBA-caliber pull up and shoot, an Isiah-esque spin, the ability and desire to set back screens for OTHER players, the ability to properly attack and dish on the break, a willingness to get up and defend (as he did vs Rose in that Memphis game), and a desire to BANG for rebounds rather than settle for long ones to fall into his lap.

I don't see him as a stat grabber, I see him as a player that is much better than a lot of the talent around him. Now it could be that if he gets paid his game will fall off, but right now his defensive and rebounding attitudes suggest a team type of player to me.

My only question on his game is his leadership knowledge. He can do his part but he doesn't seem ready to lead others. That's where staying in college another year could help him. But he's not the only player that could benefit from that for various reasons (Thabeet, Gordon, Rose all come to mind right away).

I'd swap Tins out for Mayo in a heartbeat. He doesn't strike me as Marbury at all, but then I'm not hanging out with him. Who knows what dirt he has on Floyd. ;) Seriously though he hasn't come across as a cocky punk in the least when I've watched him, just impressive.


I'm no pro scout and could be way off. This is just our impressions mostly from TV viewing, right. So if they pick him and he's a disaster there's no "see dummy". :D We all know the draft is nuts. This one does seem deeper than last year but I thought last year was getting a ton of hype based on the top end power. Acie Law was a lottery pick. Who really thought of Acie Law a guard in the Gordon/Rose/Mayo category? I wasn't sold that Conley was for that matter, and I like his game. To me Conley should have gone closer to where Law went, maybe 8-9.

And of course it's the first year. Gotta give drafts 3-4 years to mature.

Naptown_Seth
01-27-2008, 04:14 PM
Thabeet is listed at 7'3" and is probably pretty close to that in real life. He's pretty damn tall.


Both of them are legit 7 footers.....both of which are listed as 7 foot 2 ( Hibbert ) and 7 foot 3 ( Thabeet ).
BTW, my comment on his height wasn't that I didn't believe people, it was that it surprised me. Let's face it, TV viewing isn't the same as seeing up close. I guess Hibbert just played more upright and Thabeet was in a more athletic/agile stance when I saw them. As I said, Thabeet struck me as a young Antonio Davis perhaps (raw).

Hicks
01-27-2008, 04:20 PM
I wouldn't touch Mayo. Has headcase or malcontent written all over him IMO.

RomanGabriel
01-28-2008, 08:49 AM
UConn played IU on Saturday. I'm guessing that some of you watched the game. How did Thabeet look?

His box score didn't look that great....but how was his defense and overall game?


I've seen Thabeet a few times - he obviously doesn't have the basketball skills of all these other 1st rounders, but c'mon, the man is 7'3" and athletic! A very rare combination. I still don't know if he's someone I'd build a team around, but I'd like to have him on my team. He has pretty good footwork and appears to be a hard worker, and from what I've seen I'd project him to have a Mutombo-type career with better offense. He might not be an NBA All-Star, but he'll be solid.

owl
01-28-2008, 10:44 AM
If Thabeet can provide some scoring, rebounding and defense AND be durable, he would be
a great fit for the Pacers. One draft is not going to fix what ails the Pacers but it will be a
start. That and a couple of years(contracts expiring or being traded ie JO) will also help
tremendously.

If we are talking raw and talented the Pacers should also consider Serge Ibaka or
Kevin Love would be a Diogu replacement and be a much better passer and rebounder.

JayRedd
01-28-2008, 11:36 AM
I don't see him as a stat grabber, I see him as a player that is much better than a lot of the talent around him..

I honestly don't know that much about Mayo, but to me he's more of a guy that just seems to know he's better than everyone else than a punk. It's a fine line I suppose, but a good percentage of the All Time greats (MJ, Bird, Lebron, Barkley, GP, Kobe) have made quite a career out of dedicating their careers to making sure than everyone in the game knew that they were the best player on the court at all times.

Obviously, I'm not saying that Mayo is anywhere close to that type of talent...hell, I've only seen him play three times and some youtube clips. I'm just saying that from what I've seen he's just a dude that knows he's better at basketball than everyone else he's ever played against and not some sort of malcontent.

Confident moreso than arrogant...Cocksure more so than cocky.

What exactly are the issues with him? I've seen the clip of him throwing the ball into the stands and ending a game when there was still like 20 seconds left or whatever. And I've heard the story about how he told Tim Floyd he was coming to USC and would do the recruiting himself. But neither of those seem damning, even if the first one is mildly ridiculous.

Again, this is probably too much for me to write about a guy I don't have a huge opinion on from a basketball standpoint or mentalitywise...but from my limited purview, he seems more in that realm of Rudy Gay, who was a guy I always wondered why people considered him a malcontent. What was it that made people stay away from Rudy other than the continued mention of the term "shaky character" in draft previews? McCants was a little like that too. The questions on both their characters seemed like rumor, speculation and innuendo with those guys based upon old white guy sportwriters watching their facial expressions and demeanor on TV...and so far that's what Mayo feels like.

Major Cold
01-28-2008, 11:42 AM
[quote=owl;648686]
If we are talking raw and talented the Pacers should also consider Serge Ibaka [quote]


Yeah that kids intrigues me so much. For those who don't know him I will repost somethings.

Major Cold
01-28-2008, 11:44 AM
I like BEasley and Gordon. I agree with Seth that Rose has some polish to do. If he stayed in one more year that may be the best thing for him.

Batum???? Lopez????

I love this kid.



<OBJECT height=355 width=425>

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YMP7pn6VNYQ&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></OBJECT></P>

http://www.zonabasket.es/wp-content/uploads/serge-ibaka-en-vestuario-r-jordi-cotrina.jpgSerge IbakaCongo

Birthday:9/18/1989
NBA Postion:PF/C
Class:N/A
Ht:6-10
Wt:220
Int Team:LHospitalet
Hometown:Congo
High School:N/A

NBA Comparison: Shawn Kemp
Strengths: A tremendous athlete blessed with insane length and leaping ability ... Conjures up memories of Shawn Kemp. Ibaka reportedly had a higher vertical than any of the players drafted in the 2007 draft. Which is extremely unusual for a taller player ... Despite his immense physical gifts, Ibaka hustles at all times and works hard on his game showing a lot of improvement in a short time ... He's currently playing in Spain for L'Hospitalet ... Has solid footwork in the post, and an improving turn around jumper ... He can even extend out to the 3 pt line and knock down shots on occaision ... Has the tools to become a first round pick in the next year, as he is not far from having an NBA ready body, and plays hard ... He's relentless on the boards and his length and athleticism makes him a formidable shot blocker ... Has good touch on his shot, and solid mechanics, he just needs to become more comfortable with his offensive game so it becomes second nature ...

Weaknesses: Coming from the Congo, his age may come into question ... He appears to be young and at least close to his listed age so it likely won't be to big a deterrant, but teams are normally wary of the age of young African players who seem "too good to be true". But unlike some other recent African draft picks who did not play NCAA ball (Saer Sene, Malick Badiane and Desagana Diop) Ibaka is already showing offensive abilities ... Ibaka also needs to work hard on his skills, while he shows nice potential with his ball skills and post moves, they are far from refined ... Learning a few moves that he can consistently go to in the post will greatly improve his offesnive abilities ... Needs to add some muscle to his frame. Right now, he's too lean and will get pushed around under the basket ... But he's still very young, and appears to be able to put weight on without any problems ... At the adidas Global camp in New Orleans, Ibaka suffered with cramps, so staying hydrated and improving on his stamina are important ...

He appears to have an offensive game. Folks I know that the unknown is intriguing and often overrated. But this kid seems different. Raw talent with and offensive game. Too bad we can't see him in FIBA cause he played junior ball with the congo. France is out of the question.

I don't see the Pacers picking him up. Tim Duncan caught my eye his sophmore year and I have followed him since, I might just do the same with this kid.


He is projected to go late 1st round. Trading Diogu to get him would be nice. Send him to the NBDL for a year and see what happens.

Robertmto
01-29-2008, 12:27 AM
it's the fact that he's willing to knock a player who's proven himself at every level as at least a big time scorer/player, and then hype of somebody who has only proven to be an occasionally solid defender. the draft is a toss up either way, that's the contradiction.

Maybe he should win a few BIG games then

Naptown_Seth
01-29-2008, 12:42 AM
I just went through the first half of the USC/UCLA game and Packer agrees with me, Mayo gets after it on defense. He did it vs Wash St, vs Memphis and UCLA. They put him on Rose, they put him on Collison and then moved him to Westbrook when he had an early impact (and he went bye-bye with Mayo on him).

I have no agenda with the guy, I just have been watching as much of any of these guys I can to get past the hype and stats and see what they can do. This kid is legit. My biggest worry is his FG%, not his FGA.

He's not be-all, but he's a legit NBA talent that plays PERIMETER defense like he cares and comes to traffic to fight for a rebound. When you see a guy like Owens get down into his attack defense stance, that's how Mayo plays defense all the time.

It would be a massive mistake to pass on him based on hype. Now look, if they interview the kid, look into his past, and they see Tins part 2 or something then sure you pass on him. My thing is that a lot of fans are dismissing him off of some vague impression, often without seeing him even play.

How he plays doesn't mesh with prima donna.

Maybe he should win a few BIG games thenUm, the win AT UCLA? And USC played tight vs several elite teams (4pts vs Memphis and Kansas, both certain #1 seeds). Their schedule hasn't been for the faint of heart. UCLA, Memphis, Kansas, Wash St, all ranked 4th or better at the time.

That's one thing I like about the Mayo situation, that team has gone after tough competition, or had it come to them thanks to the Pac-10 strength. That's how you get better.


Now personally I still like the Kansas kids and Love at UCLA, at least for where the Pacers will likely pick.

Collison again underwhelmed me in that USC game (again, Tivo from a few weeks ago). He's okay, but I'm not sure he's an NBA starter. I think I still prefer Augustin perhaps. There are times Collison makes nice plays, but mostly he's just a sound NCAA fundamentals type of player rather than a pure talent.

You know who's making an impression on me lately is Josh Shipp at UCLA.

I need to finish up the USC/UCLA game (halftime) and I have another I forget on Tivo, plus I add the UConn/L'ville game tonight. Beats watching some parts of Pacers games, and I can FFWD when the prospect sits. :)

Kofi
01-29-2008, 01:17 AM
I would jump for joy if we ended up with O.J. Mayo. I think he's every bit as good a prospect as Gordon, and in fact his game is more complete and he's a better defender.

For those saying Mayo has a bad attitude or is a team cancer, could you please post facts to back up your claims?

Infinite MAN_force
01-29-2008, 12:53 PM
I was pretty impressed with what I saw of thabeet, For as tall as the guy is he can really move. He isn't what you think of when you picture a slow moving 7-3 guy. I just watched some sportscenter highlights where the guy had some really impressive blocks too. Even if he never develops much of an offensive game, he could be a great asset just as a defensive anchor.

I think if you can't get gordon, I would go with Thabeet and than trade granger for a point gaurd. Maybe a young guy. Conley perhaps? maybe someone better? possible lineup of the future...

conley
rush
dunleavy
williams
thabeet

idioteque
01-29-2008, 01:18 PM
lmao at dcpacersfan completely TRASHING oj mayo yet hyping arguably the most raw player in college basketball as potentially the great center...

Thabeet is very raw and will take time to develop. I don't claim to have a crystal ball but I agree with the poster who said that his worst case scenario would be Adonal Foyle. However, he could also turn out to be a Dikembe Mutumbo type player. There is a risk and reward with every player in the draft and Thabeet is no different.

I would rather take the risk with Thabeet than take the risk with Mayo. However there are many more players I would rather have than Thabeet. If someone told me I could only have one or the other and I was building a real team and not an NBA Live 08 team, I would pick Thabeet hands down. Mayo is a PROBLEM CHILD and is destined to be the league's next Stephon Marbury.

If he is on his typical behavior in Indianapolis, I don't care how good he is, our attendance will continue to be low and the fans will feel even more disconnected from the players.

I predict he will be a franchise killer. He'll never win an NBA title.

LMAO at anyone who would want a potential franchise killer here during a time in which fan-player relations are at an all time low. That's basically suicide, unless you want the Pacers to be in OKC before 2018.

idioteque
01-29-2008, 01:25 PM
I would jump for joy if we ended up with O.J. Mayo. I think he's every bit as good a prospect as Gordon, and in fact his game is more complete and he's a better defender.

For those saying Mayo has a bad attitude or is a team cancer, could you please post facts to back up your claims?

He went to four different high schools.

In January 2007, Mayo allegedly assaulted referee, Mike Lazo, after being ejected from a Huntington High game vs. Capital High School at the Charleston Civic Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_Civic_Center).<sup id="_ref-3" class="reference">[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OJ_Mayo#_note-3)</sup> According to West Virginia Secondary School Activities Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_Secondary_School_Activities_Commissi on) rules, Mayo was suspended for two games. However due to allegations supported by video evidence that Lazo had overreacted and faked the incident, a temporary restraining order was signed by Cabell County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabell_County%2C_West_Virginia) Circuit Court Judge Dan O'Hanlan, temporarily lifting the suspensions on Mayo and five other players suspended due to incidents at that game.<sup id="_ref-4" class="reference">[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OJ_Mayo#_note-4)</sup> However, shortly after, the restraining order was nullified and Mayo was suspended for three games, a punishment that Mayo described as "fair."<sup id="_ref-5" class="reference">[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OJ_Mayo#_note-5)</sup>
On March 9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_9), 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007), Mayo and three other men were cited by the Cabell County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabell_County%2C_West_Virginia) Sheriff's Dept. for misdemeanor simple possession of marijuana. Officers found the cannabis in a car in which Mayo was a passenger and, since no one claimed possession, all occupants were ticketed.<sup id="_ref-6" class="reference">[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OJ_Mayo#_note-6)</sup> Charges against Mayo were dropped on March 12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_12), 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007) after one of the other passengers in the vehicle took responsibility for the marijuana.<sup id="_ref-7" class="reference">[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OJ_Mayo#_note-7)</sup>


That kind of a rap sheet and he's only a freshman in college? I'm just not willing to take the risk.

LouisvilleLip
01-29-2008, 01:38 PM
I still can't see people passing on Mayo unless they are picking Beasley or Rose who are arguably just as talented and have equal potential to be franchise type players.

I don't hear anyone complaining about Beasley's problems, he went to 6 different high schools and seemingly the same attitude problems Mayo has.

I think you have to remember these are just kids and you guys are expecting them to start acting like professionals at age 16 because maybe someday they will be a pro. I'm pretty sure lots of successful pro's had similar problems in there highschool days.

CableKC
01-29-2008, 01:56 PM
I still can't see people passing on Mayo unless they are picking Beasley or Rose who are arguably just as talented and have equal potential to be franchise type players.

I don't hear anyone complaining about Beasley's problems, he went to 6 different high schools and seemingly the same attitude problems Mayo has.

I think you have to remember these are just kids and you guys are expecting them to start acting like professionals at age 16 because maybe someday they will be a pro. I'm pretty sure lots of successful pro's had similar problems in there highschool days.
Although I agree with you that there is no way to know how any of these players will turn out in their professional future and that it is extremely difficult to ignore a vastly superior talent over one that has less potential but is a Eagle Boy Scout.....but it's hard to blame any Pacer fans for wanting to stay away from possible malcontents that could cause possible issues in the future. For some people....talent far outweighs any possible concerns about attitude or past history.....for others....if all things are near equal.... other people may go with the opposite.

I'm not sure if Bird would role the dice on him if he was available to be drafted.....but I can see his past history as a possible area concern.

jmoney2584
01-29-2008, 02:15 PM
I still can't see people passing on Mayo unless they are picking Beasley or Rose who are arguably just as talented and have equal potential to be franchise type players.

I don't hear anyone complaining about Beasley's problems, he went to 6 different high schools and seemingly the same attitude problems Mayo has.

I think you have to remember these are just kids and you guys are expecting them to start acting like professionals at age 16 because maybe someday they will be a pro. I'm pretty sure lots of successful pro's had similar problems in there highschool days.

Well said, god knows i was 16 once...yikes.

BTW, Eric Gordons track record is impeccable.

CableKC
01-29-2008, 02:49 PM
Well said, god knows i was 16 once...yikes.

BTW, Eric Gordons track record is impeccable.
Unfortunately, I seriously doubt that we will get him :banghead:

We have to get a top 3-4 pick in the draft to even have a chance of drafting him. Unless we win just 3-4 games for the rest of the season to be within striking distance of the top 4 picks.......which is unlikely....I don't see how that is possible.

jmoney2584
01-29-2008, 03:40 PM
Unfortunately, I seriously doubt that we will get him :banghead:

We have to get a top 3-4 pick in the draft to even have a chance of drafting him. Unless we win just 3-4 games for the rest of the season to be within striking distance of the top 4 picks.......which is unlikely....I don't see how that is possible.

Draft day trade for draft-rights? I think that could be done quite easily if we don't ship out too many pieces before the mid-season trade deadline.

Will Galen
01-29-2008, 05:58 PM
Draft day trade for draft-rights? I think that could be done quite easily if we don't ship out too many pieces before the mid-season trade deadline.

I agree! Which is one reason I don't really want to trade anyone but maybe Tinsley by the trade deadline this year.

Say we finish the year in the vicinity of where we did last year. (11th) If we finish 9th, 10th, 11th, we might be able to trade up to get a Rose or Gordon by offering that pick along with players.

I don't really want to trade for draft picks, because those are nearly always lottery protected. Even on draft day that can shoot you in the foot. We traded Antonio Davis for the 5th pick so we could get Odom, but he was picked ahead of us so we took a flier on Bender.

owl
01-29-2008, 07:02 PM
Goodness, how did that pick affect the Pacers? Probably cost a title or two.

CableKC
01-29-2008, 07:07 PM
Draft day trade for draft-rights? I think that could be done quite easily if we don't ship out too many pieces before the mid-season trade deadline.
The only tradeable asset that we would likely be willing to part with that another GM would want is JONeal....and I seriously doubt that he would get us a top 3 or 4 pick since any team with a top 3 or 4 pick would not want JONeal and his injury prone body.

The only way that we could possibly get a top 3 or 4 pick is if we offer up Granger to get the pick. If Granger himself could nab us that top 3 pick to get Gordon...then I would definitely consider it.

But I'm pessimistic enough to think that any GM with half a brain would ask for more ESPECIALLY if the target is Gordon and the GM that is asking is from Indy ( a team that not only needs a future SG but the is desperate for the much needed additional PR that comes from drafting one of the top stars to come out of IU in a long time ).

Besides....I'm not very confident in the Pacers FO ability to make the right moves. For all I know....they may swing some deal to trade our stars for a bag of magic beans or something.

CableKC
01-29-2008, 07:09 PM
I agree! Which is one reason I don't really want to trade anyone but maybe Tinsley by the trade deadline this year.

Say we finish the year in the vicinity of where we did last year. (11th) If we finish 9th, 10th, 11th, we might be able to trade up to get a Rose or Gordon by offering that pick along with players.
If it costs us Granger and the other Lottery pick....would you still do it?

jmoney2584
01-29-2008, 07:45 PM
The only tradeable asset that we would likely be willing to part with that another GM would want is JONeal....and I seriously doubt that he would get us a top 3 or 4 pick since any team with a top 3 or 4 pick would not want JONeal and his injury prone body.

The only way that we could possibly get a top 3 or 4 pick is if we offer up Granger to get the pick. If Granger himself could nab us that top 3 pick to get Gordon...then I would definitely consider it.

But I'm pessimistic enough to think that any GM with half a brain would ask for more ESPECIALLY if the target is Gordon and the GM that is asking is from Indy ( a team that not only needs a future SG but the is desperate for the much needed additional PR that comes from drafting one of the top stars to come out of IU in a long time ).

Besides....I'm not very confident in the Pacers FO ability to make the right moves. For all I know....they may swing some deal to trade our stars for a bag of magic beans or something.

I'm more inline with what Will is talking about, packaging players with our current pick or future picks to get them that day. Because while I am in the Tank club for sure, you can't gurantee someone else is going to get the pick you want. Once you trade for a pick, if that team all of the sudden gets better because of the trade then you are screwed. Although on the other hand if it does remain a good pick they may ask a lot more for it once the lotto has been assigned...blah

Maybe we just trade for an asset we can get a good deal with on draft day to go with our allready decent choice.....is that being to positive on that whole situation?

Will Galen
01-29-2008, 07:59 PM
If it costs us Granger and the other Lottery pick....would you still do it?

No. I think that would be dumb.

For example, who would you rather have Gordon, or Granger and Hasheem Thabeet, a 7'3 center, or Granger and Chase Budinger a 6'7 guard?

CableKC
01-29-2008, 08:06 PM
I'm more inline with what Will is talking about, packaging players with our current pick or future picks to get them that day. Because while I am in the Tank club for sure, you can't gurantee someone else is going to get the pick you want. Once you trade for a pick, if that team all of the sudden gets better because of the trade then you are screwed. Although on the other hand if it does remain a good pick they may ask a lot more for it once the lotto has been assigned...blah

Maybe we just trade for an asset we can get a good deal with on draft day to go with our allready decent choice.....is that being to positive on that whole situation?
The only tradeable assets that this team has is Granger, Shawne, Foster and MAYBE Ike. No one would want anyone else on this roster while giving up a 1st round draft pick.

If we do this on Draft day.....I'm totally guessing here.....but I'm thinking like this:

Granger by himself maybe able to get a 5 to 10 pick.
Shawne or Foster by himself maybe able to get a 15 to 25 pick.
Ike by himself maybe able to get a 25-30 pick.

All of this is dependant on the team that is drafting. If a team at the 5th pick needs an upgrade at the SF spot....they may consider swapping the 5th pick for Granger. But it they already have a quality SF...then they won't consider Granger as valuable.

Either way....unless Granger can nab us Gordon by himself....or Shawne or Foster can somehow nab us a pick that would allow us to draft a solid Defensive Big Man like Thabeet...then I just don't see us making a draft-day trade that would reallly benefit us in the long run.

CableKC
01-29-2008, 08:10 PM
No. I think that would be dumb.

For example, who would you rather have Gordon, or Granger and Hasheem Thabeet, a 7'3 center, or Granger and Chase Budinger a 6'7 guard?
That's what I'm thinking too. Unfortunately, it goes back to what I was saying about our current situation. On Draft Day, every GM knows that we are desperate to make a move after a ( more then likely ) failed 2007-2008 season.

If it was a straight up Granger for #3 pick to get Gordon....I would do it. But I get the sense that we would have to overpay in order to get a much needed draft pick.....which obviously would not be worth it.

d_c
01-29-2008, 09:30 PM
That's what I'm thinking too. Unfortunately, it goes back to what I was saying about our current situation. On Draft Day, every GM knows that we are desperate to make a move after a ( more then likely ) failed 2007-2008 season.

If it was a straight up Granger for #3 pick to get Gordon....I would do it. But I get the sense that we would have to overpay in order to get a much needed draft pick.....which obviously would not be worth it.

You have to keep something in mind about these scenarios where very high picks get traded around.

Typically, the team with such a high pick (top 5 pick) is going to want the player they like most that they can get with that pick. So in most scenarios, they will keep the pick, make the selection, and keep that player.

The scenarios where teams are willing to trade down typically only happen when said team STILL GETS the player they want most from the draft even after trading down a few spots.

For example, in 2004 the Clippers picked at #2 and wanted Shaun Livingston more than Okafor (they had Brand). But they figured they could still get Livingston even after trading down 2 spots and getting a 2nd round pick from the Bobcats while dumping a bad contract on them. That was a prearanged deal, so the Clips got exactly who they wanted while gaining a pick and dumping a contract.

In a theoretical world where the Clips didn't already have Elton Brand and wanted Okafor, there's no way they would have made that trade. The price to pry the #2 pick off their hands in such a case would have been much, much higher.

My point is that a team picking really high generally doesn't want to mess around by trading down unless they can still get the player they like most. So if a team is picking at #4 and Eric Gordon is there and he's the guy they like, they'll most likely just keep the pick and keep Eric Gordon. The only way they'd trade the pick is if they could trade down while still getting Gordon.

I would guess that in most scenarios, Granger + the #9-12 pick probably wouldn't be enticing enough to land a top 4 pick in return.

indyman37
01-29-2008, 09:37 PM
Thabeet is very raw and will take time to develop. I don't claim to have a crystal ball but I agree with the poster who said that his worst case scenario would be Adonal Foyle. However, he could also turn out to be a Dikembe Mutumbo type player. There is a risk and reward with every player in the draft and Thabeet is no different.
I'd love to get Thabeet, don't get me wrong. I just want to get a big man coach first. That way we can actually develop him rather than have him learn from JO or Murphy and become a young mold of them.

jmoney2584
01-29-2008, 11:00 PM
I'd love to get Thabeet, don't get me wrong. I just want to get a big man coach first. That way we can actually develop him rather than have him learn from JO or Murphy and become a young mold of them.

I wonder if Dikembe would be available...not much on the offensive side, but he'd teach him how to be a rebounding and shot blocking ninja. Mount Mutumbo was a physical player, he'd do some young big talent good by teaching them the ropes.

Not many people probably think about it, but Dwight Howard has Patrick Ewing as his big man coach down in Orlando, don't you think that has SOME part in Dwight's vast and quick improvement?

Major Cold
01-30-2008, 12:00 PM
I do not want Chase. I do not want Thabeet. I do not want Mayo.

Give me:
Gordon
Donte Green
Bayless
Batum
Gallinari
Collinson
Ibaka
Rush

Seriously I would rather Batum and Rush (trading to get this pick) than trading pick and Granger for Gordon.

Major Cold
01-30-2008, 12:03 PM
Memphis plays the Zags.

Important game for Rose. If he struggles his stock could drop. Janero Pargos bro (Jeremy) is a decent prospect. I can see him as a solid backup in the NBA.

Will Galen
01-30-2008, 09:41 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=SophomoreWatch-080130&univLogin02=stateChanged

Draft Watch: Patience paying off for some sophomores
http://assets.espn.go.com/i/columnists/Ford_Chad_55.jpg (http://x.go.com/cgi/x.pl?goto=http://search.espn.go.com/keyword/search?searchString=chad_ford&name=SEARCH_m_archive&srvc=sz)
By Chad Ford
ESPN.com
<!-- promo plug -->
<!-- end story header --><!-- begin left column --> <!-- begin page tools --> Updated: January 30, 2008

<!-- end page tools --><!-- begin story body --> <!-- template inline --> Last year, a record eight college freshmen went in the first round. And a handful of other promising freshmen would have been first-round picks if they declared for the draft.

Did they make a mistake by forgoing the riches of the NBA lottery for a sophomore season or have they improved their game and their draft stock? And which other sophomores have improved their play to the point that they are getting first-round mentions?

After talking with numerous NBA scouts and executives, here's a look at a group of college sophomores who look like they could make some noise come June.

The Fab Five

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/draft2008/headshots/19042.jpg
Brook Lopez (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19042), C, Stanford
At the end of last season, Lopez ranked as the eighth-best prospect in our top 100 for the 2007 draft, but he decided to return to school for his sophomore year. That quickly backfired when he was suspended indefinitely from the team for not attending classes earlier this season. He ended up missing the first nine games of the season and slipped down to No. 15 on our board.

Scouts everywhere were asking the same question? How can a guy with such a bright future turn down the NBA for college and then quit going to class?

Now that he's back, Lopez has been on fire. He's averaging nearly 18 points per game and 8 rebounds in just 26 minutes per game. Offensively, Lopez has shown the ability to score both inside and outside. He has good athleticism for a big guy, long arms and a good motor.

Although scouts wish he was a more dominant rebounder and shot-blocker, the truth is that his brother, Robin, often takes care of that for him.
Right now Lopez is ranked No. 7 on our big board, but he has the potential to be a top 5 pick in the 2008 draft.

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/draft2008/headshots/19026.jpg
Chase Budinger (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19026), SG, Arizona
Budinger finished last season ranked No. 9 in our Top 100 and has used this season to solidify his ranking in the top 10.

Budinger has all the tools to be a dominant swingman in the NBA. He is tall, athletic, has a killer jump shot and can jump out of the gym.

But after a good freshman season, scouts are currently scratching their heads a little as to why Budinger isn't more dominant. He has all the tools to be the man in Arizona, but he's often overshadowed by freshman Jerryd Bayless (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19137).

Part of Budinger's problem is that he still lacks a solid in-between game. He takes a lot of 3s and gets it going to the basket ... but he lacks the ballhandling skills to create more for himself. And although he's a freak leaper, he doesn't always use his athleticism in his game.

Still, scouts say Budinger has a chance to be special as a pro. He looks like a lock to be a top 10 pick in the draft.

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/draft2008/headshots/19062.jpg
Darrell Arthur (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19062), PF, Kansas
Arthur is another player who, on paper, should be dominating. He's long, athletic and skilled, but he continues to be inconsistent on both ends of the floor.

Arthur has a lot of talent around him at Kansas and at times he seems content to let his teammates do the work. When he gets it going, he looks like a top 5 pick. When he doesn't get it going, he looks more like a first-round bubble guy.

"I'm scared of him a little," one NBA director of player personnel told me. "You see the tools, but as a sophomore you want him putting it together more on a regular basis. You watch him disappear sometimes and wonder what you're getting."

Arthur came into the season ranked No. 5 in our Top 100 and has slowly dipped to No. 11. He could dip lower if he doesn't get more consistent or he could rise back up the rankings if he has a dominant run in the NCAA Tournament.

It's still too early to tell.

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/draft2008/headshots/19083.jpg
D.J. Augustin (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19083), PG, Texas
After Memphis' Derrick Rose (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19132), scouts continue to debate who the second best true point guard in the country is. Right now, two sophomores, Augustin and UNC's Ty Lawson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19034), are at the center of the debate.

Augustin is a super-quick point guard with excellent ballhandling and penetration skills and a very good 3-point shot. He draws some comparisons to Steve Nash for his ability to keep his dribble, then find a seam for a perfect pass.

Augustin's size and lack of rebounding are the biggest strikes against him right now. But when you look at his production and what he's doing for Texas, you can see why some scouts see him as a better version of Damon Stoudamire.

Right now Augustin is ranked as the 12th best prospect in the draft.

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/draft2008/headshots/19034.jpg
Ty Lawson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19034), PG, North Carolina
Lawson is one of the quickest guards in the draft. He is a steady floor leader, stays away from mistakes and has become a dependable shooter in the backcourt.

Some scouts feel strongly that Lawson could be a better version of the Bobcats' Raymond Felton. Others aren't nearly as sold on him, saying he's more likely to be a marginal starter to solid backup than a starting point guard in the league.

The fact that he's leading one of the best teams in the country means he's getting a ton of exposure right now. That's been both good and bad for his draft stock.

If he leads North Carolina deep into the tournament, his stock is bound to rise. Otherwise, he's probably somewhere between 10 and 15 in the draft.

Up and coming

While the top five sophomores coming into the season have held their positions in the lottery, several others are quickly rising up the charts. Here's a look at five others who could make an impact in the first round. Marreese Speights (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19161), PF/C, Florida

Speights averaged just 6 mpg on last season's championship team, but when he played, he had a surprising impact at the offensive end. This season he has turned into one of the most efficient scorers in the NCAA. He averages 14 ppg, 8 rpg and 1.4 bpg in just 22 mpg. He shoots 64 percent from the floor and has, along with freshman Nick Calathes (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19153), been the leader of a Florida team that is surprising a lot of people right now.

Speights has great size and strength and good athleticism for a power forward. He has impressive low-post moves for a sophomore, shows excellent quickness with the ball in the paint and has a good motor. He needs to improve his conditioning and his jump shot, but there's a lot to love about Speights right now. He's got a chance to be a Top 10 pick this year. Currently, he's ranked No. 9 in our Top 100.

JaVale McGee (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19227), PF/C, Nevada
McGee is a super-athletic big man who oozes potential. He is already an elite shot-blocker and runs the floor incredibly well for his size. He has some face-the-basket skills, can put the ball on the floor and even shoot the college 3.

He's also very raw and desperately needs to add muscle to his frame if he's going to have any chance of holding his position in the paint. With that said, scouts love his potential. He's a likely late first-rounder if he declares now. Another year of development in college could make him a lottery pick.

Ryan Anderson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19084), PF, Cal
Anderson has turned into a big-time scorer for Cal with a polished inside-outside game that is very tough to stop. He has deep range on his 3-point shot and he's turned himself into an excellent rebounder.

The question about Anderson is his lack of athleticism. Some scouts look at him and see another Troy Murpy -- a solid pro, but not a star. Anderson is a first-round bubble guy right now.

Tyler Smith (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19093), F, Tennessee
Smith is off to an excellent start at Tennessee after transferring from Iowa last year. He's been a do-it-all small forward who has excellent athleticism and energy. He doesn't have a great jump shot, but he has just about everything else. Not sure where he falls in the draft right now ... but he's a potential first-round sleeper.

Wayne Ellington (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19032), SG, North Carolina
Ellington is one of the best shooters in college basketball. He has deep range on his 3-point shot and has developed a great midrange game as well. He's become a more efficient scorer this season and has been great as the outside threat to compliment Tyler Hansbrough (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=18875)'s inside presence.

Ellington's biggest NBA issues have to do with lack of size and inability to finish around the rim. Ellington needs to continue to add strength and find ways to get to the line. He's probably another year away from the NBA right now ... but he would garner looks in the late first round if he declared this year.

Others to watch: Scottie Reynolds (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19128), PG, Villanova; Jordan Hill (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19174), PF, Arizona; Hasheem Thabeet (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19024), C, UConn; Sherron Collins (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19040), PG, Kansas; Earl Clark (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19050), F, Louisville; Gerald Henderson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19028), SG, Duke; Greivis Vasquez (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19085), G, Maryland; Robin Lopez (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19045), C, Stanford; Raymar Morgan (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19218), F, Michigan State; Stanley Robinson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19065), F, UConn; Taj Gibson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19121), F, USC; Paul Harris (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19030), G/F, Syracuse

Will Galen
01-30-2008, 10:12 PM
I do not want Chase. I do not want Thabeet. I do not want Mayo.

Give me:
Gordon
Donte Green
Bayless
Batum
Gallinari
Collinson
Ibaka
Rush


Green is a 6'7 SF, Batum is a 6'8 SF, Gallinari is listed as a 6'9 SF.

We have to many SF's now! (It's just a guess if they could play SG in the NBA)

Collinson is interesting though. We could use him right now!
Draft Projection: Mid to late first round

Similarities: T.J. Ford.

Positives: Super quick point guard. Incredible bursts of speed. Excellent floor vision. Good perimeter shooter. Tenacious on-the-ball defender. Long arms make up for lack of size. Good floor leader. Has turned himself into an excellent perimeter shooter.

Negatives: Probably closer to 5-10 or 5-11 than the listed height of 6-1. Not a great ballhandler. Slight.

Summary: Scouts love his speed and his floor leadership. As the NBA turns more up-tempo, Collison's strengths may end up trumping his weaknesses. If he continues to play well, he could end up as a mid-first rounder in 2008.

owl
01-30-2008, 11:33 PM
Take the best player available, barring a trade. If you draft solely for need you will more than likely get burned. Soooooo...., if the best player at your pick is OBVIOUSLY a small forward,
you pick small forward and figure out what to do later. Hopefully need and talent match at your pick and that tough decision does not have to be made/

Kofi
01-30-2008, 11:46 PM
I'd like to see us land Mayo with our own pick, and trade for a mid-first to pick up a point guard like Collison, Augustin, or Lawson, or Thabeet or Hibbert, in the unlikely case that one slips out of the lottery.

CableKC
01-31-2008, 01:36 AM
I'd like to see us land Mayo with our own pick, and trade for a mid-first to pick up a point guard like Collison, Augustin, or Lawson, or Thabeet or Hibbert, in the unlikely case that one slips out of the lottery.
I've read that Hibbert may have the skills of a low-post scorer.....but he's really slow.....he wouldn't be able to keep up with our running.

croz24
01-31-2008, 01:43 AM
if the pacers can land 2 1st round picks in this year's draft i wouldn't mind drafting a mayo type with the 1st pick and then drafting more of a character guy with that 2nd pick...but the guy the pacers should really be keeping an eye on is BILL WALKER! if his knee injury truly is a thing of the past, not many can touch his skill set and athleticism...

d_c
01-31-2008, 01:46 AM
I've read that Hibbert may have the skills of a low-post scorer.....but he's really slow.....he wouldn't be able to keep up with our running.

From what I've seen of Hibbert, I just have questions about the guy's stamina over a 48 minute game.

He played well against Oden last year and has a nice touch and good overall feel offensively, but you could tell he fatigued easily when he had to run around setting picks all day. That fatigue is what got him in foul trouble. And his rebounding isn't that great either.

jmoney2584
01-31-2008, 06:25 AM
whatever became of that pick we got from the James Jones to PHX deal?

d_c
01-31-2008, 06:29 AM
whatever became of that pick we got from the James Jones to PHX deal?

Pacers get the Suns' 2nd round pick in 2008.

jmoney2584
01-31-2008, 06:33 AM
thats what i thought, but i meant do we still have it? Do we have two 2nd rnders this year?

Will Galen
01-31-2008, 07:37 AM
thats what i thought, but i meant do we still have it? Do we have two 2nd rnders this year?

I could tell you, but I would rather point you in the right direction.

Click on this link. http://www3.realgm.com/src_gm_resources.php

Click on NBA draft.

Click on future draft picks. It tells what every team has available as draft picks.

jmoney2584
01-31-2008, 12:57 PM
So we don't have two 2nd rounders.

tight

Naptown_Seth
01-31-2008, 03:32 PM
Boy, I just got to finish that USC/Wash St game. That second half showed me quite a bit of Kyle Weaver's game. That guy is a big time defensive ace at PG/SG, but without the ball handling issues of Orien Green.

He tore Mayo up a couple of times, along with other plays he made.


Right now he and Shipp are the players I'd love to see Indy pull out of the late 1st/early 2nd.


The Kansas/K St game showed that Beasley is the real deal, but to me also that Rush/Chalmers might still be a bit undervalued in some corners.

I'd hate to make the Gordon/Beasley call, especially if you didn't think JO would be back or healthy next year.

Naptown_Seth
01-31-2008, 03:43 PM
I've read that Hibbert may have the skills of a low-post scorer.....but he's really slow.....he wouldn't be able to keep up with our running.
This is true, at least up till now. If they hit the Hibbert area I'd love to see a trade-down deal to get Augustin for PG and then also pick up pick around 25 to get Weaver/Shipp/Rush/Chalmers.

Right now it feels like to me that only 6 guys are sure things - Beasley, Rose, Gordon, Greene, Lopez and Jordan. The next 5-6 guys are going to have upside, but also legit questions. To me it feels like you can get similar upside later in the draft, at least as projected right now. If you are past the sure thing area or can't trade up into it, better to get as many possible solutions as you can, even if they don't all work out (Shawne and White).

2nd rounder...
Obviously the Pacers will be keeping theirs and sending that PHX pick over to Portland (for final James White payment I believe)

MyFavMartin
01-31-2008, 04:29 PM
This is true, at least up till now. If they hit the Hibbert area I'd love to see a trade-down deal to get Augustin for PG and then also pick up pick around 25 to get Weaver/Shipp/Rush/Chalmers.

Right now it feels like to me that only 6 guys are sure things - Beasley, Rose, Gordon, Greene, Lopez and Jordan. The next 5-6 guys are going to have upside, but also legit questions. To me it feels like you can get similar upside later in the draft, at least as projected right now. If you are past the sure thing area or can't trade up into it, better to get as many possible solutions as you can, even if they don't all work out (Shawne and White).

2nd rounder...
Obviously the Pacers will be keeping theirs and sending that PHX pick over to Portland (for final James White payment I believe)

I think you have to put Mayo in the the top 6-7 of the draft. I think Lopez would fit with the Pacers... would love to see him take Harrison's spot on the roster. But if we're picking that high, I would love to see someone who can create their own shot and penetrate...

Later draft picks, I like some of the bigs - Hendrix or DeVon Hardin and a shooter - Courtney Lee.

Will be interesting to see the movement of the boards with the tournaments and predraft camps.

Rajah Brown
01-31-2008, 06:14 PM
Naptown-

Bayless isn't far behind that sure thing group. And he might be in
it.

MyFavMartin
01-31-2008, 06:57 PM
Naptown-

Bayless isn't far behind that sure thing group. And he might be in
it.

From what I've heard, he's very much like Gordon. And I think he might have been in that group.

I'm also not sold on Hibbert, too.

croz24
02-01-2008, 04:23 AM
for me, if we can't land a top 10 pick, BUT do land a 2nd 1st...i'll gladly take Bill Walker and Patrick Patterson!!!

Dece
02-01-2008, 04:37 AM
People throw around "sure thing" wayyyyy too often. Who hasn't seen dozens of sure things end up career backups or out of the league?

Kraft
02-01-2008, 04:41 AM
Bayless isn't far behind that sure thing group. And he might be in it.

I'd agree. Once that guy completely figures out how to run a team -- and he's getting there -- he'll be a solid, solid NBA starter.

Naptown_Seth
02-01-2008, 04:05 PM
Did you see what Weaver and Josh Shipp just did last night? Two more great games from both of them.

Shipp went 5-8 from 3 for UCLA in a big win, and Weaver showed strong offense for a defensive specialist as perhaps the only bright spot in WashSt's loss.


Gordon and Lopez both had nights roughly on par with their draft status.

Mr. Sobchak
02-05-2008, 12:20 AM
I thought we could post some of our mock drafts in this thread. Here's mine..

http://mrmock.wordpress.com

croz24
02-05-2008, 03:18 AM
austin daye is another name to watch out for...he'll probably stay another year with the zags but this kid is about 6'10 with a reggie-like frame and game. seems to have all the offensive moves either on the blocks or on the perimeter to go with a very high basketball iq at such a young age. solid passer and ball handler as well. has a ton of room to grow and a ton of maturing to do physically but should be a top 5-10 pick NEXT YEAR and if he came out this year is a guy that could be available for us if we have a late lotto pick...

Kofi
02-05-2008, 05:02 AM
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3180/mareesefa1.png

NBADraft.net has him going #16 this year while Draft Express has him going #4 next year. Looking at his size, age, and his amazing production in limited minutes, I'd have to side with Draft Express. Still, if he were to come out this year and be available in the 8-12 range, he'd be my #1 guy.

Will Galen
02-05-2008, 06:02 AM
NBADraft.net has him going #16 this year while Draft Express has him going #4 next year. Looking at his size, age, and his amazing production in limited minutes, I'd have to side with Draft Express. Still, if he were to come out this year and be available in the 8-12 range, he'd be my #1 guy.

People will probably give him the nickname, 'Sprights Heights.'

Major Cold
02-05-2008, 10:00 AM
I thought we could post some of our mock drafts in this thread. Here's mine..

http://mrmock.wordpress.com

There are a lotof picks I agree with on your mock. The one I question early in the draft is the Timberwolves. With Foye I think they go for Jordan since they may not payout to Jefferson. But a back court of Foye and Rose would be tight.

Major Cold
02-05-2008, 10:33 AM
My Mock draft.

1. Miami------------->Beasley
2. Wolves------->Jordan (Jefferson may sign else where)
3. Supersonics-->Rose (Rose and Durant)
4. Memphis----->Lopez (Gordon there but they need size so it is tough call)
5. Knicks-------->Gordon(I just threw up in my mouth)
6. Clippers------>Green(can you say goodbye Maggette)
7. Bobcats------>Bayless(Felton can not lead them far)
8. Bucks-------->Mayo(They will lose out to get Bayless but if mayo is here...)
9. 76ers-------->Thabeet(He is a project whether you like it or not)
10.Pacers--------->Batum(hate this range, Batum could be something, we will drop farther)
11.Bulls---------->Love(we will see a trend of Bulls drafting bigs like the hawks with swing men)
12.Kings---------->Collinson(Bibby will be trade for a 1st so we could see a mid to late pick for the Kings)
13.Rockets------>Hibbert(no idea why but Hibbert does not have the conditioning to be a starter in the NBA so it really does not matter)
14.Portland----->Gillarani (I see this guy dropping Belinelli style)
15.New Jersey-->Speights(talent alone this kid be a steal)

Rankings will change a lot. Most mock drafts had the top 3 right last year. I do not see the same for this year. I really think Gordon drops if IU continues to struggle in the Big Ten. If he gets a second win look for him to push up. The tourney can break some of these picks. Rose comes to mind. If Zona goes far in the tourney and Bayless turns it up....look out. Beasley is a sure pick but I am not convinced that Miami will be there. Wolves need to tank to get him. Sonics need to consider who will work best with a player like Durant and not just draft on talent alone.

Mr. Sobchak
02-05-2008, 10:34 AM
There are a lotof picks I agree with on your mock. The one I question early in the draft is the Timberwolves. With Foye I think they go for Jordan since they may not payout to Jefferson. But a back court of Foye and Rose would be tight.


I thought about puttting Jordan there but I'm not so sure that they'd pick him. I think the Timberwolves would want to go with the bpa plus Jordan has been slippng as of late. A backcourt rotation of Rose, McCants, and Foye could be lethal.

avoidingtheclowns
02-05-2008, 11:18 AM
There are a lotof picks I agree with on your mock. The one I question early in the draft is the Timberwolves. With Foye I think they go for Jordan since they may not payout to Jefferson. But a back court of Foye and Rose would be tight.

the only problem with that of course is that jefferson already agreed to a new deal with the wolves.



Wolves, Jefferson agree to extension

By Jerry Zgoda, Star Tribune
October 31, 2007

The Timberwolves beat a late-night deadline Wednesday and signed promising Al Jefferson to a five-year, $65 million contract extension that keeps the centerpiece of last summer's Kevin Garnett trade with the franchise through 2013.

The Wolves had until 11 p.m. Wednesday to sign Jefferson, a 6-10 forward/center selected 15th overall by Boston in the 2004 NBA draft, to an extension and reached an agreement with Jefferson's agent, Jeff Schwartz, just before the deadline.



http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/11688571.html

Naptown_Seth
02-05-2008, 11:44 AM
I finally got to finish the UConn/Louisville game from a few weeks back, and watched the first half of UCLA/AZ.

Okay, Thabeet scares me a bit. He's a big time project. The only part of his game that is NBA caliber right now is shot blocking. No post offense at all and probably never will be, not a great post defender, not a great rebounder. He gets beat out on spacing quite a bit. Frankly I would hate to see Indy risk a pick on him.

AJ Price on the other hand is really making an impression. He's got pretty solid ball control, solid deep range, pretty strong passing though not star quality, decent defense. I like Price more than Collison right now, and at times more than Bayless even though he's not the athlete either of them are.

Earl Clark - he's not anywhere close to ready and at this point doesn't stand out as a top pick from what I've seen. He does seem to have potential, but Draft Express has him higher than Westbrook (UCLA) and it's not even close IMO.


Collison underwhelms me at times. He's got the speed/quickness and defends well, but he's not a show running PG IMO. And why that's a problem is that UCLA is one of the most talented teams out there. A stud PG could be running up huge assist numbers with that team.

Collison to me has a top-end of Armstrong, and I don't think he hits that level at this point.

Bayless is bigger and looks stronger going to the rim. I don't think he runs the show like a true PG still, certainly not like Price sets people up. He's not a star defender and in the UCLA game he seemed more likely to take advantage of UCLA's weaker players than he did vs their top guys. He did beat Westbrook once on a pretty strong move.

Budinger - no thanks. Dunleavy with less overall talent IMO. He rarely creates for himself and is even more prone to racking up numbers on the bench guys than to take over against other stars.


Now UCLA, they are loaded. Collison might not be as great as projected at times, but he's still first round material. Add to this Shipp who has impressed me as perhaps a late first round SG and Westbrook who is UCLA's top athlete and something of a sleeper right now. Not sure when he plans to come out, but I'd tell him to stay and let Collison, Shipp and Love come out ahead of him so he can shine on his own and move up the draft board for more money. He absolutely torched Budinger right in his face most of the game and actually outplayed Shipp by a fair margin. Great athlete.


Then there is Love who just has to be a top 8 in my book. This kid is McHale I think. At first you think he will have trouble with size in the NBA but the thing is that he doesn't really rely on size to have success at UCLA. He's crafty and like Foster or McHale uses effort and savvy to sneak into rebounds on guys. And on offense the McHale similarity really comes out. He's not posting in the traditional back-down and shoot over style, nor is he using a quick first step. He truly works guys with every trick in the book and gets really easy looks out of it.

Oh, and on top of all this he's got an outlet passing game on par with Rodman, but in his case it also translates to some amazing halfcourt passing. In the AZ game he had a couple of MADE BASKET outlets past half court that resulted in quick baskets the other way. You want to run, this guy gets you started as well as anyone could. Running isn't just about getting yourself up court, you also need to get the ball there and he does that well.



I know the Pacers need a PG, but if the choice is Augustin, Collison, etc vs Love I think you have to go with Love and then use some of your other bigs to get into a PG, either a vet or trading for a 2nd pick.

Love on the board does make it reasonable to trade Foster for a PG/SG or decent pick.

LG33
02-05-2008, 04:47 PM
Some people think that All You Need is Love, but taking Love Hurts our real needs - getting a backcourt star. Our frontcourt is dangerously weak, especially with Jermaine, who continues to Hold on Loosely to his hopes of returning to an MVP level. Are we Ready for Love? Maybe. We certainly can't Run with the Pack in the East for much longer. I don't think We Can Work it Out and Get Back to where we once belonged - not with this group. Clearly, The Times They Are A-Changin', but I have a feeling, no, it's More Than a Feeling, that this Love character is not Born to Run in O'Bs system. For What it's Worth, I want to Shake it Up, get a good player who can Drive and maybe a perimeter stopper who won't Surrender so many easy layups. Changes are on the horizon, but the Heart of the Matter remains that no post guy will give us a Free Ride back to the playoffs. We all need a little Patience, see where the lotto balls fall, and see how the college season ends, before we make any quick decisions. No sense in continuing to Ramble On here. Just remember, in the NBA draft, You Can't Always Get What you Want, though you might get what you need.

Two questions you have to ask yourself:
1. Do You Believe in Love?
2. And really, what's the Power of Love?

indyman37
02-05-2008, 04:48 PM
Some people think that All You Need is Love, but taking Love Hurts our real needs - getting a backcourt star. Our frontcourt is dangerously weak, especially with Jermaine, who continues to Hold on Loosely to his hopes of returning to an MVP level. Are we Ready for Love? Maybe. We certainly can't Run with the Pack in the East for much longer. I don't think We Can Work it Out and Get Back to where we once belonged - not with this group. Clearly, The Times They Are A-Changin', but I have a feeling, no, it's More Than a Feeling, that this Love character is not Born to Run in O'Bs system. For What it's Worth, I want to Shake it Up, get a good player who can Drive and maybe a perimeter stopper who won't Surrender so many easy layups. Changes are on the horizon, but the Heart of the Matter remains that no post guy will give us a Free Ride back to the playoffs. We all need a little Patience, see where the lotto balls fall, and see how the college season ends, before we make any quick decisions. No sense in continuing to Ramble On here. Just remember, in the NBA draft, You Can't Always Get What you Want, though you might get what you need.

Two questions you have to ask yourself:
1. Do You Believe in Love?
2. And really, what's the Power of Love?
But all you need is love...

MyFavMartin
02-05-2008, 07:04 PM
Watched the USC/Arizona game...

Mayo looked good. Similar to Brandon Roy. Good outside shooter. Smooth. Excellent ball handling skills. Very good penetrator.

Bayless.... was said to be very comparable to Billups at his current stage. Was used as a small SG... thus, was matched on Mayo. Did decently but USC was running Mayo off screens a lot and there were a lot of switch outs. Bayless looked athletic, able to handle contact, go penetrator, decent shooter.

Taj Gibson of USC might be someone to consider in the second round. Compared to Vin Baker - - - big PF that can shoot from outside. Excellent rebounder and explosive.

Budinger did remind me of Dun - took what was given too him --- excellent shooter - - - poor ball handler, does not create, not very athletic, excellent size.

rexnom
02-05-2008, 08:09 PM
Am I the only who thinks Mayo in the 8-12 range is a HUGE steal reeking of Caron Butler who dropped because of "character issues"?

croz24
02-06-2008, 12:28 AM
mayo between 8-12 would indeed be a HUGE steel...mayo is essentially in the same category as gordon, beasley, and rose...

Infinite MAN_force
02-06-2008, 01:57 AM
Much as I am wary of more character issues, I don't think you can afford to pass on Mayo in that range. At the vary least, let him show off for a year and if there really ARE character issues, trade him and get huge value out of him.

Major Cold
02-06-2008, 10:46 AM
the only problem with that of course is that jefferson already agreed to a new deal with the wolves.


Thanks

Major Cold
02-06-2008, 10:48 AM
Naptown
Then there is Love who just has to be a top 8 in my book.


I haven't seen love that much. How are you going back and watching the games?(PM me)

Does Love have the smarts to play defense in JOB's system?

Shade
02-06-2008, 02:18 PM
I'm starting to get excited now.

Don't get me wrong, I don't (and won't) actively root for the Pacers to lose, but every time they do it reminds me that we're one step closer to possibly drafting a stud.

We might actually have a realistic shot at drafting EJ straight up. That is, if TPTB don't screw it up. If we get into a position to get Gordon and pass him up, I may very well renounce my fandom. There are very few things that would make me do it, but that's one of them. I know they struck gold with Reggie/Alford, but EJ is about eleventy-billion times the NBA prospect that Alford was.

Shade
02-06-2008, 02:21 PM
Some people think that All You Need is Love, but taking Love Hurts our real needs - getting a backcourt star. Our frontcourt is dangerously weak, especially with Jermaine, who continues to Hold on Loosely to his hopes of returning to an MVP level. Are we Ready for Love? Maybe. We certainly can't Run with the Pack in the East for much longer. I don't think We Can Work it Out and Get Back to where we once belonged - not with this group. Clearly, The Times They Are A-Changin', but I have a feeling, no, it's More Than a Feeling, that this Love character is not Born to Run in O'Bs system. For What it's Worth, I want to Shake it Up, get a good player who can Drive and maybe a perimeter stopper who won't Surrender so many easy layups. Changes are on the horizon, but the Heart of the Matter remains that no post guy will give us a Free Ride back to the playoffs. We all need a little Patience, see where the lotto balls fall, and see how the college season ends, before we make any quick decisions. No sense in continuing to Ramble On here. Just remember, in the NBA draft, You Can't Always Get What you Want, though you might get what you need.

Two questions you have to ask yourself:
1. Do You Believe in Love?
2. And really, what's the Power of Love?

Bravo, sir. Bravo. :applaud:

Will Galen
02-07-2008, 01:05 AM
I'm starting to get excited now.

Don't get me wrong, I don't (and won't) actively root for the Pacers to lose, but every time they do it reminds me that we're one step closer to possibly drafting a stud.

We might actually have a realistic shot at drafting EJ straight up. That is, if TPTB don't screw it up. If we get into a position to get Gordon and pass him up, I may very well renounce my fandom. There are very few things that would make me do it, but that's one of them. I know they struck gold with Reggie/Alford, but EJ is about eleventy-billion times the NBA prospect that Alford was.

If the Pacers get the one, they will pick Beasley, if they get the two they will pick Rose. After that I expect them to pick Gordon if available.

Naptown_Seth
02-07-2008, 08:06 PM
I haven't seen love that much. How are you going back and watching the games?(PM me)

Does Love have the smarts to play defense in JOB's system?
Nothing secret, just games I had on the Tivo that I couldn't get to. Sorry it couldn't be a covert way to find them online. Don't worry, you'll get to see plenty of UCLA still.


Man, it seems like I'm hitting the same drum but I caught a fair portion of UConn/Syracuse which was originally my target for Thabeet vs Greene. Thabeet had one of his best defensive intimidator games, but he still hasn't proven his all-around game. He did give Greene fits with his size but you can't help but notice that Greene is pretty athletic himself. Syracuse doesn't have the talent that UConn does IMO so Greene isn't getting the same help.

But guess who impressed yet again - AJ Price. I've seen these guys about as much as anyone and every time out it seems like Price is running the show well, dropping some quality big shots and a very capable PG. He's not the athlete that Bayless or Augustin or Collison are but I honestly don't think it matters. He might not come out this year but the last few telecasts they were calling him the top PG in the Big East (without a doubt) so people are noticing.

This is exactly the kind of kid you'd love to steal at 22 or something if you could trade for a pick. He has a real maturity on the court.


I also peeked in on Augustin from time to time. He might not be Bayless but he's pretty solid. He and Price give the Pacers some interesting options later in the first. I've seen both enough to feel pretty good about them, as good as you can at this point at least.


Taj Gibson. He is interesting but seems squarely in the mid 2nd range to me. To me he's much more of a guy that can excel at the NCAA level but not the NBA. Good college teams are full of these guys ala Thomas Hill from Duke early 90's.

Love on defense. This is the one area I can't read on him. He's pretty good with his feet and he's a very smart player it would seem. But typically he's NOT an intimidating defender, he doesn't get up in your face and make life miserable nor does he scare you coming to the rim. Typically he stays in a disciplined "hands straight up" posture when the ball gets inside. He won't go chasing the ball and find his way into a foul, which is good, but he won't directly shut a guy down either.

I'd consider him a better defender than Troy at least, but not as good as Foster. I keep coming back to the McHale thoughts. I realize that Love strikes you as bulky when you see him and McHale isn't the first guy you picture, but it's the way he plays and gets his advantages.

I'd really like to see him facing Beasley or Hibbert even.

CableKC
02-07-2008, 08:38 PM
Love on defense. This is the one area I can't read on him. He's pretty good with his feet and he's a very smart player it would seem. But typically he's NOT an intimidating defender, he doesn't get up in your face and make life miserable nor does he scare you coming to the rim. Typically he stays in a disciplined "hands straight up" posture when the ball gets inside. He won't go chasing the ball and find his way into a foul, which is good, but he won't directly shut a guy down either.

I'd consider him a better defender than Troy at least, but not as good as Foster. I keep coming back to the McHale thoughts. I realize that Love strikes you as bulky when you see him and McHale isn't the first guy you picture, but it's the way he plays and gets his advantages.

I'd really like to see him facing Beasley or Hibbert even.
Love seems to be more of the type of player that have the Basketball smarts to fit into our offense/defense....but do you think that he has the physical skills/talent/athleticism to effectively implement the offense / ( but most notably ) defense that JO'B has put in place?

It sounds like he has the offensive skills that we are looking for ( solid Big Man that can score and pass out of the Post ) but lacks the skills and attributes to effectively execute on the defensive end. I'm guessing that there wouldn't be any lack of trying from Love....but much like Dunleavy and Murphy.....you can only try and understand the system so much until your physical limitations catch up with you.

croz24
02-08-2008, 12:40 AM
ej has a TON of work to do with his quickness, ball handling, defense, mental approach to the game, and ability to create before he could ever become a solid pro...and honestly, i don't see ej ever becoming more than a shooter...

Naptown_Seth
02-09-2008, 11:46 AM
Love with JOB. No problem, big HR for this system because of his #1 skill which is mentioned by every commentator I've heard - outlet passing.

You want the ball over the HC line in 3-4 seconds? Try in 1 second on the first pass. He doesn't throw into traps, he doesn't get these long passes picked, and he seems to have the same long passing skill even in the half court.

He knocks out at least 3-4 of these PER GAME. It stands out and people notice. The ESPN team was raving on a couple of his made basket outlets the last game I saw.

So there's your running. He doesn't have to run, he makes the ball run. And then if you are in the HC he has the awareness to help keep the offense moving despite not being a go-to player.

With all picks there is a chance that for whatever reason this stuff won't translate, but the awareness he shows as a freshman, the types of crafty play he already has, it's pretty impressive. That suggests the smarts to make the most of any defensive system. If you know what you are doing you can limit the physical requirements the system puts on you, such as not running as far because you have some idea of where you are headed next and are already hedging that way when you can.


Watched Gordon vs Illinois and was both impressed and concerned. EJ is like the worst of Wade and Magic combined. He plays upright and dribbles high like Magic did, he's got some of that physical presence as a PG and almost thrives on contact. But he passes more like Wade, as in not that great. He also jumps more like Magic than Wade.

So he's very prone to losing his dribble with it so high, more so with lots of contact. And he doesn't sky over people inside.

However, he gets to the line like Wade as well, which is great. He is quicker than Magic and has a better outside shot than either Magic or Wade with good form and a quick release. I like his catch and shoot ability.

He's going to be a SG IMO, that's just the nature of how he plays offense, thus more Wade than Magic that way.

On defense in this game the Hoosiers were in zone for most of it so EJ didn't get to show much. I did think he played pretty decent in man to man. When they first went man he read a passing lane for a nice steal.

I don't like him as a top pick and I think it depends on the team's needs. I don't think he looks any better than Mayo. Mayo being a better defender on the ball, EJ being a bit better scorer. Both look to be headed toward mistake-riddled rookie seasons that have fans questioning the pick, but in the long run the physical abilities are there.

I didn't like how EJ started to initiate the dirty physical play when he got frustrated. He was the one often throwing the first shove, bump or whatever. When the refs came in to break up an early situation the replay showed that it started with EJ slapping a player away after normal contact.

In other words he didn't control his emotions and showed a nasty side that only IU fans would overlook.

I don't want to hear the crowd excuse because I've seen other players this year get into some pretty rough environments and games and keep their cool. This is something that you hope is due soley to maturity.


DJ White - sort of Kurt Thomas with touches of Juwan Howard on offense (not as gifted as either though). I like his game but I don't love it (for the NBA). Clearly he is the man at IU right now. He has composure and good awareness. But he's also older and should have these things.

I'm torn because he's improved his game which you like, but that also may mean his potential is maxed out.

I've seen him projected down into the 2nd round and I'm fine with that. Picking him in the first round would be a mistake IMO. He might stick but I don't think he'll impact games more than Foster does in total, and in his case that impact would be more spread out rather than one thing extremely well.

jmoney2584
02-09-2008, 05:08 PM
Love with JOB. No problem, big HR for this system because of his #1 skill which is mentioned by every commentator I've heard - outlet passing.

You want the ball over the HC line in 3-4 seconds? Try in 1 second on the first pass. He doesn't throw into traps, he doesn't get these long passes picked, and he seems to have the same long passing skill even in the half court.

He knocks out at least 3-4 of these PER GAME. It stands out and people notice. The ESPN team was raving on a couple of his made basket outlets the last game I saw.

So there's your running. He doesn't have to run, he makes the ball run. And then if you are in the HC he has the awareness to help keep the offense moving despite not being a go-to player.

With all picks there is a chance that for whatever reason this stuff won't translate, but the awareness he shows as a freshman, the types of crafty play he already has, it's pretty impressive. That suggests the smarts to make the most of any defensive system. If you know what you are doing you can limit the physical requirements the system puts on you, such as not running as far because you have some idea of where you are headed next and are already hedging that way when you can.


Watched Gordon vs Illinois and was both impressed and concerned. EJ is like the worst of Wade and Magic combined. He plays upright and dribbles high like Magic did, he's got some of that physical presence as a PG and almost thrives on contact. But he passes more like Wade, as in not that great. He also jumps more like Magic than Wade.

So he's very prone to losing his dribble with it so high, more so with lots of contact. And he doesn't sky over people inside.

However, he gets to the line like Wade as well, which is great. He is quicker than Magic and has a better outside shot than either Magic or Wade with good form and a quick release. I like his catch and shoot ability.

He's going to be a SG IMO, that's just the nature of how he plays offense, thus more Wade than Magic that way.

On defense in this game the Hoosiers were in zone for most of it so EJ didn't get to show much. I did think he played pretty decent in man to man. When they first went man he read a passing lane for a nice steal.

I don't like him as a top pick and I think it depends on the team's needs. I don't think he looks any better than Mayo. Mayo being a better defender on the ball, EJ being a bit better scorer. Both look to be headed toward mistake-riddled rookie seasons that have fans questioning the pick, but in the long run the physical abilities are there.

I didn't like how EJ started to initiate the dirty physical play when he got frustrated. He was the one often throwing the first shove, bump or whatever. When the refs came in to break up an early situation the replay showed that it started with EJ slapping a player away after normal contact.

In other words he didn't control his emotions and showed a nasty side that only IU fans would overlook.

I don't want to hear the crowd excuse because I've seen other players this year get into some pretty rough environments and games and keep their cool. This is something that you hope is due soley to maturity.


DJ White - sort of Kurt Thomas with touches of Juwan Howard on offense (not as gifted as either though). I like his game but I don't love it (for the NBA). Clearly he is the man at IU right now. He has composure and good awareness. But he's also older and should have these things.

I'm torn because he's improved his game which you like, but that also may mean his potential is maxed out.

I've seen him projected down into the 2nd round and I'm fine with that. Picking him in the first round would be a mistake IMO. He might stick but I don't think he'll impact games more than Foster does in total, and in his case that impact would be more spread out rather than one thing extremely well.

For the record, I was glad to see Gordon "show a nasty side". It wasn't Ron Artest nasty....or even Bruce Bowen/Karl Malone nasty, but it was a show of competitive emotion that sometimes he lacks. His facial expression usually only changes when he gets called for a foul. Illinois came out riding EJ hard and bumping him at every turn, when the crowd, the officials, AND the players are against you, you have to take a stand and give a little back. The physicality is one of the things I saw missing from his game on a personal level, he usually seems to get taken out of his game by physical guard play. Don't take this out of context though, he initiates contact on drives to the whole and is a physical guard himself, but in a different light. He is a bit too nice at times.

LG33
02-09-2008, 05:38 PM
My biggest fear about Kevin Love is a resurrection of the Rudy Gay/Luther Head threads of months past.

Mr. Sobchak
02-09-2008, 08:14 PM
Thabeet looked good today....

24 points, 15 rebounds, 6 blocks

LG33
02-09-2008, 10:35 PM
Thabeet looked good today....

24 points, 15 rebounds, 6 blocks

Stanko averaged that in high school games.

aceace
02-10-2008, 12:19 PM
Say we trade JO and end up with the 10th and 22nd pick. Eric Gordons available at #10. I think its a no-brainer to take him. Another guy who has moved up considerable in the draft is DJ White - the guy rebounds like Foster and has an offensive game. He's well liked, brings it to the table every night. Does he go at #22 - higher or lower? Should the Pacers consider him being an Indiana standout even if there might be a player that has slipped? Gordon and White have played together does that make a difference? Every time I watch DJ I think this guys stock is increasing.

Naptown_Seth
02-10-2008, 01:11 PM
Gordon is gone by 5 at the worst.

White has some interesting skills, but to me it's really overvaluing him to take him at something like 22.

I'd rather flip it and get Love at 10 (still scared of the Thabeet project) and perhaps get Augustin, Collison or Price (if he comes out) to play PG. Neither are the star scorer players, but frankly at 10/22 you aren't getting that anyway.

The elite guards look to be gone by 10. Now if Mayo somehow slips to that spot then I take him over Love right now.


I'm so PO'd that local ABC didn't carry the freaking WashSt/USC game, even though the east and west coast feeds did. WTF RTV, just stupid.

Let me just point this out from that game, Kyle Weaver, defensive specialist (and he's a great on-ball defender) went 8 of 8 for 17 points and 5 assists. If you have a pick in the 20s and can get him I'd call it a steal. Like Price he doesn't come off as an NBA athlete, he's not making these incredible moves. He's just solid, and more fluid than a standard NCAA player.

And I have to assume he did some of that with Mayo on him and he also likes to get after it on defense, so it likely didn't come easy for him.


I've got the Kansas St game and most of the Texas game to watch, though I don't really need to see more of Beasley at this point. Watched just a bit of G'town, Hibbert was playing fairly well by his standards.

Looking at the box for Kansas yesterday, not a great outing for either Rush or Chalmers, but I didn't see it so who knows how they really looked.

Memphis box, Rose decent, Dorsey good, Doug-Rob meh. Still waiting on Rose to really impress. He's talented but a lot like EJ in that he doesn't appear ready for the next level quite yet.

aceace
02-10-2008, 01:37 PM
Gordon is gone by 5 at the worst.

White has some interesting skills, but to me it's really overvaluing him to take him at something like 22.

Your right about Gordon. I posted that before I looked at the Mock drafts. I still think DJ goes easily in the 1st rnd because he is a phenom on the boards. He had 21 pts and 22 rbd in 31 minutes against Michigan and blocks shots 39 in 22 games, so he has it on the defensive end also. 61% from the field so his shot selection has been good.

Robertmto
02-10-2008, 04:55 PM
My biggest fear about Kevin Love is a resurrection of the Rudy Gay/Luther Head threads of months past.

Can you imagine a trio of Love, Gay, Head?

All you need is a big center with a solid point.

Naptown_Seth
02-11-2008, 09:44 PM
White is impressing people. You hear lots of "White is the most important guy for IU right now, not Gordon" comments during games (not just IU games, highlights, etc).


I realize this might be too late for some people, but tonight is a major to watch game IMO, especially for Pacers fans. Texas (Augustin, PG, realistic pick for Pacers) vs Kansas (Rush/Chalmers, both guys that could slip to the Pacers if they get into the late first or even early 2nd).

Forget your Gordon/Rose stuff, not much to see there since as we've said they won't make it to Indy. These are closer to the types of guard help Indy might get.

rexnom
02-12-2008, 12:20 AM
Can you imagine a trio of Love, Gay, Head?

All you need is a big center with a solid point.
Nice. I'm holding off until the summer.

croz24
02-12-2008, 12:43 AM
guys, it's no guarantee gordon goes top 5...his game has not been impressive at all as of late, and he has yet to prove himself against good competition...

Young
02-12-2008, 01:01 AM
If IU gets on a roll and makes say the Elite 8 or something like that then Gordon is defiantly a top 5 pick IMO.

Brook Lopez has been a big time player. One of the best big man prospects out there. Now i'm not completely sold on him to be a top flight big in the NBA but he has some potential.

DeAndre Jordan could be the wild card player of this draft. We know that Beasley, Gordon, Rose, and Bayless all should turn out to be pretty good. They proven they are pretty damn good thus far in college atleast. DeAndre though hasn't proven. He does have the tools that you can't teach. So, will a team take a chance on him that has a say top 5 pick? IDK, will be interesting to see where he would go if he enters.

A couple of players people don't talk about are Donte Greene and Nicolas Batum. I think both are hell of a player and will get top 10 attention for sure.

I'll tell you what, if the Pacers pick around 10 and if OJ Mayo is avaliable you have to take him. I have some real concerns about his off court issues, you want to draft a clean player, however if it checks out and stuff maybe he is another Caron Butrler as someone else suggested. Would be worth the risk at 10 IMO.

I really like the Vol's Tyler Smith. However IDK he is what the Pacers need. I think he will make one hell of an NBA player though very soon. Hopefully he stays in the Orange.

Darell Arthur is a pretty solid big.

In terms of the point guards I think that either Augustin or Collison would be nice picks. I kind of like Augustin more but Collison has some really really good tools such as speed, quickness, and defense that the Pacers need. However you don't draft in the NBA based just off of your needs.

Hopefully the Pacers can get themselves a nice player. Will be very interesting to see where they stand and who enters this draft. Should have a good idea of both after the NCAA tournament.

Robertmto
02-12-2008, 02:02 AM
Nice. I'm holding off until the summer.

uber weak


guys, it's no guarantee gordon goes top 5...his game has not been impressive at all as of late, and he has yet to prove himself against good competition...

Yes it is...and if u think its not.....well you shouldnt

CableKC
02-12-2008, 02:26 AM
Let me just point this out from that game, Kyle Weaver, defensive specialist (and he's a great on-ball defender) went 8 of 8 for 17 points and 5 assists. If you have a pick in the 20s and can get him I'd call it a steal. Like Price he doesn't come off as an NBA athlete, he's not making these incredible moves. He's just solid, and more fluid than a standard NCAA player.
I was reading an article about Weaver. From what I could tell....he seems to be a higher Basketball IQ Guard that can defend on a high level, drive to the hoop and score. I am sure that there are more aspects to his game that you have noted.....but that's the first thing that sprung out at me when I read highlights about him...he reminds me of Marquis.

I don't mind trying to draft him if we can somehow get a draft pick in the 20s......but I'm guessing that the Pistons or Spurs will draft him. They always end up having the smarts to draft a solid defensive minded roleplayer.

Naptown_Seth
02-12-2008, 07:31 PM
He's not Quis because he is a more pure PG. He can run the point, maybe no better than Diener, maybe worse than Diener. But his defense and nose for the ball and desire to be physical to get the job done are noticeable.

As I said before, I think more like Orien Greene if he could hold his own on offense.

The hard fact is the Pacers aren't getting a difference maker in this draft. Even if they trade into 20 and make it a total of 3 picks, they are all going to be role players and guys with some limits. But that doesn't mean you don't do it.

If they could get a 22 pick or so and then make it Love/Augustin, Weaver, Shipp/Rush as the 3 picks I'd be thrilled. It would still mean lots of rough waters ahead, but with Danny emerging you'd really only need to get that one star piece once you move JO's deal (or JO finds his way back to AS level).

So maybe next year isn't about winning either, it might be the only other rough season they'd be facing.


Augustin vs Rush/Chalmers...haven't finished the 2nd half but Augustin does have a Kidd/Deron aspect to his HANDLES. Not his passing, that's still really raw, but you can see how he pounds the ball, using the extra hard dribble to change his rhythm, and picture a smaller version of those guys. He plays more physical than his size suggests. Not a great defender though, definitely has a streak of Kidd in him there.

Rush as a SG looks strong and physical to me as well. He seems fairly interested in defense and able to get after it a bit. His playing stature strikes me as a Bobby Phills type. He won't be a star, but I could see him becoming a starter perhaps.

Chalmers is really under the radar for his talent level. He's not quite showing NBA caliber play, he might be more of a guy that's able to beat NCAA kids only, but right now I like him a lot more than Collison (who's falling fast IMO). He's quick, runs a solid point and sets guys up, and also seems pretty balanced in mixing up his own scoring and passing to others.

CableKC
02-12-2008, 07:40 PM
He's not Quis because he is a more pure PG. He can run the point, maybe no better than Diener, maybe worse than Diener. But his defense and nose for the ball and desire to be physical to get the job done are noticeable.

As I said before, I think more like Orien Greene if he could hold his own on offense.
Don't get me wrong....I have no problem with making some move to get Weaver.....he seems to be the type of PG that I would love to have Deiner share minutes with. I'm all for getting a defensive minded player that can consistently guard/pressure the opposing PG.....something that I have been wanting for a long while.


The hard fact is the Pacers aren't getting a difference maker in this draft. Even if they trade into 20 and make it a total of 3 picks, they are all going to be role players and guys with some limits. But that doesn't mean you don't do it.

If they could get a 22 pick or so and then make it Love/Augustin, Weaver, Shipp/Rush as the 3 picks I'd be thrilled. It would still mean lots of rough waters ahead, but with Danny emerging you'd really only need to get that one star piece once you move JO's deal (or JO finds his way back to AS level).

So maybe next year isn't about winning either, it might be the only other rough season they'd be facing.
Great....another shakedown season to see what players fit and which ones don't. ;)

But honestly....if JONeal and Tinsley are somehow moved for players that would seemingly fit into what we are doing and we don't draft yet another SF in this upcoming draft......I would be okay with the losing.

Naptown_Seth
02-12-2008, 07:43 PM
Nice. I'm holding off until the summer.
That's the District for ya.

Guys, just make sure he washes the shirt afterward. Don't go out like Billy C.



Cable, I'm not arguing, I'm clarifying since I know a lot of people might read some of this stuff without watching guys and I didn't want to get that Quis image in anyone's brain.

I really like some options in this draft, but I still only think you'll see 10-15 regulars come out of it in the long haul, probably about the norm. For me this effort to watch and discuss came out of being clueless on half the draft classes the last few years. I knew guys with the big teams from late season play, but mostly it was just what I'd heard. So my opinion of what I'm seeing will probably be a total disaster. All my pet picks will be in Europe by August. :)

Kofi
02-12-2008, 08:07 PM
The hard fact is the Pacers aren't getting a difference maker in this draft.

The Pacers are currently #10 on the draft order. Would you like to tell us how many drafts between 1970 and 2003 didn't have at least one All-Star available at #10 or later?

One. 1997. And if Stephen Jackson ever makes the All-Star team, the number will be zero. By the way, '97 also had T-Mac at #9.

There will be difference makers available from where the Pacers will be drafting. The question is, are Bird and our scouting staff good enough to recognize them? They nailed Granger in 2005 and it looks like Shawne will end up one of the better players out of 2006, and even Harrison was a decent pick at #29. So I'm fairly optimistic. If there's one thing Bird gets a passing grade on in my book, it's the draft.

CableKC
02-12-2008, 08:12 PM
Cable, I'm not arguing, I'm clarifying since I know a lot of people might read some of this stuff without watching guys and I didn't want to get that Quis image in anyone's brain.

I really like some options in this draft, but I still only think you'll see 10-15 regulars come out of it in the long haul, probably about the norm. For me this effort to watch and discuss came out of being clueless on half the draft classes the last few years. I knew guys with the big teams from late season play, but mostly it was just what I'd heard. So my opinion of what I'm seeing will probably be a total disaster. All my pet picks will be in Europe by August. :)
NP.....the only reason why I even read the article on Weaver was because you were talking about him so much ;)

Here is his link on DX.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kyle-Weaver-1253/

I wouldn't mind drafting him if he is available. DX has him going in the 1st part of the 2nd round....if he's there...I would hope that we can make a run for him.....I've always loved defensive minded players.

Kofi
02-12-2008, 08:13 PM
uber weak



Yes it is...and if u think its not.....well you shouldnt

Great argument.

Actually, if he measures in at 6'3" or lower, I could see him slipping just outside of the top-5, depending on who declares. Beasley, Rose, Mayo, Jordan, Batum, and possibly either or both of the big boys, Hibbert and Thabeet, could all realistically go before Gordon. Gordon's good, but he's not a can't miss stud. Would anyone here honestly be surprised if he ends up nothing more than a solid role player? I know I wouldn't.

jmoney2584
02-13-2008, 12:44 AM
Great argument.

Actually, if he measures in at 6'3" or lower, I could see him slipping just outside of the top-5, depending on who declares. Beasley, Rose, Mayo, Jordan, Batum, and possibly either or both of the big boys, Hibbert and Thabeet, could all realistically go before Gordon. Gordon's good, but he's not a can't miss stud. Would anyone here honestly be surprised if he ends up nothing more than a solid role player? I know I wouldn't.

I love EJ's game to death and I wouldn't be suprised either...although I also wouldn't be suprised if his mid-range game came around and he had people saying "Reggie Miller who?" some day ...he has that much potential from 3-pt.land.

I would really like to see us get Bill Walker from Kansas State with a second pick somewhere in the 1st round, he is getting his explosiveness back and is going to be a bad *** one day in my opinion.

rexnom
02-13-2008, 01:44 AM
The Pacers are currently #10 on the draft order. Would you like to tell us how many drafts between 1970 and 2003 didn't have at least one All-Star available at #10 or later?

One. 1997. And if Stephen Jackson ever makes the All-Star team, the number will be zero. By the way, '97 also had T-Mac at #9.

There will be difference makers available from where the Pacers will be drafting. The question is, are Bird and our scouting staff good enough to recognize them? They nailed Granger in 2005 and it looks like Shawne will end up one of the better players out of 2006, and even Harrison was a decent pick at #29. So I'm fairly optimistic. If there's one thing Bird gets a passing grade on in my book, it's the draft.
So what you are saying is that draft position really doesn't matter since we could get an all-star even later in the draft? Isn't that basically the opposite of this whole "losing is good for the team" argument?

Kofi
02-13-2008, 02:39 AM
So what you are saying is that draft position really doesn't matter since we could get an all-star even later in the draft? Isn't that basically the opposite of this whole "losing is good for the team" argument?

We could, it's just not nearly as likely. Hence why the higher the pick, the more value it holds. A better selection of prospects.

Kofi
02-16-2008, 06:26 PM
The more I watch Jerryd Bayless at Arizona, the less convinced I become that Mayo or Gordon will go before him. He's the real deal.

Naptown_Seth
02-17-2008, 10:14 AM
Bayless, Gordon, Rose - all look like NBA caliber players.

Augustin is pretty close too. He's smaller but he handles the ball with some level of strength that counters his size.

Mayo doesn't have his game rounded out, but I think he's shown a lot more desire than people were crediting him for, especially on defense.

And I think it should be obvious that mock drafts at this point or earlier just aren't going to hold up come draft day. A LOT of guys have made moves up or down.



From yesterday, lots of interesting play by top guys.

Budinger showed more than he has been.

Bayless of course. EJ as mentioned.

AJ Price yet another big game.

Thabeet is a blocking machine. He might not do anything else in the NBA, but he does do that.

Hibbert continues to look like a less physical version of David Harrison to me. Love that he stayed in school but I'm just not sure of him as more than a bench big.

Rush (KS). I really love his game. I know the line from yesterday isn't monster but if you saw HOW he did it, how he actually moves, reads the court and plays. If he's in this year's draft and drops below 15-16 I think someone is getting a steal. I really, really would love to see an extra pick that could go get him.

Chalmers not a bad outing himself, again the numbers don't tell the whole story. They had this game and appear to have gone on cruise control as a team.

One thing I worry about Rose and D-Roberts is them being challenged and stepping up. At this point you have to worry about the clutch factor after the UAB game. Definitely want to see how these guys play in the tourney.

Lopez doesn't get a ton of play in this thread, but it's hard not to notice his numbers and how he helps his team. Beasley is getting the run, but this kid seems pretty strong too.

Beasley - 40 pts. Yikes. But he's on autopilot for a top 5 draft spot at worst anyway. Hardly worth watching him at this point.

Bill Walker - another solid game on his road back up the draft charts. Not sure if he's quite what the Pacers need though.

Tyler Smith (TN) - I'm just not sold on him. He's a good athlete but I haven't seen enough yet to think of him as a high pick.

Weaver - pretty blah game from him. He does continue to show that he's fairly capable of PG duties and not just a defensive only PG. Like his 7 rebounds. I haven't seen even highlights of this game though.

Donte Greene - not a brilliant day for him vs Hibbert/G'town. After his horrible game vs Thabeet/UConn it's hard not to have some doubts on him.

Augustin - vs Baylor, horrible shooting but 10 assists. They did get a solid road win and the kid ran out a 40 minute night along the way. He hasn't gone under 38 minutes since Jan 5th!!!

DeAndre Jordan - he might really benefit from staying another year and letting these bigs get out of his way in the draft. I think he could really improve his selection status/paycheck by doing so. His game yesterday was about on par with what he's been doing, which is not dominating despite his size.

Ogilvy - I watched a good chuck of the KY game the other day and I'm just not that impressed with him. Like Jordon I think his size is the attention getter more than his ability up to this point.



My faves outside of unreachable picks like Beas, EJ and Rose - Love, Rush, Price, Weaver, Shipp.

I do think Indy can get either Bayless or Augustin with their pick this year. I really, really wish they could double dip on one of these other guys around 20-25 though. And if those PG are gone (Bay/Aug) then take Love despite Jeff/JO/Ike.

esabyrn333
02-17-2008, 10:36 AM
[quote=rommie;655254]

Brook Lopez has been a big time player. One of the best big man prospects out there. Now i'm not completely sold on him to be a top flight big in the NBA but he has some potential.


I think this guy is going to be the biggest bust in the draft. No way his game translates to the NBA. A back up at best.

Rajah Brown
02-17-2008, 10:54 AM
Re: Bayless

See post #19 in this thread.

Naptown_Seth
02-19-2008, 07:08 PM
Augustin vs A&M. Have it on DVR but yet to watch. That line in the box score though...wow.


Bill Walker has been brought up but I have to say that forget Mayo and his rep, to me the most JACKSON player in this draft has to be Walker. I was watching a bit of a game from a few weeks ago and he does nothing but force bad shots (with Beasley starving to death no less) and complain to refs.

He's got a good driving move but he's careless with the ball. He can D up nicely but he often takes plays off at either end (lazy screens, picks, token help defense, etc).

So I'm pretty anti-Walker at this point. Maybe he'll shape up but why risk it? He has NBA talent but he's also got the NBA attitude already.



In case anyone went brain dead, tonight's a great chance to see Gordon in action vs Purdue.

jmoney2584
02-19-2008, 07:40 PM
Walker is tough like Jackson, but WAY more athletic and explosive...stronger too

Kofi
02-19-2008, 07:46 PM
Augustin is putting up great numbers, but his shooting percentages are getting uglier by the week. Given the fact that his defense is very questionable, I'm not that thrilled with the idea of landing him with our own pick. He looks like your average pick 20-something point guard. No way would I trade down from the lottery to pick him up.

croz24
02-20-2008, 07:02 AM
Augustin is putting up great numbers, but his shooting percentages are getting uglier by the week. Given the fact that his defense is very questionable, I'm not that thrilled with the idea of landing him with our own pick. He looks like your average pick 20-something point guard. No way would I trade down from the lottery to pick him up.

if you want a dj augustin, or darren collison, or any other pg that will be available after mayo and bayless, just wait until the 2nd round to draft sean singletary. IF collison and augustin are better, it's not by much. and they are essentially all the exact same type of players...why not give dominic james a shot too if singletary is gone in rd 2...

but my main philosophy is to NEVER draft a pg or c between picks 10-25 unless they are a sure-fire starter or had slipped out of the top 10. no positions on the floor are more hit and miss than pg and c, so there's absolutely 0 point in drafting a kid at slot (say) 15, when if you wait about 30 picks, you will have the opportunity to draft the exact same type of player...and many times a player even more ready to contribute right away...

Major Cold
02-20-2008, 11:37 PM
Ok Mr. Gordon. You seem to have a good stat line against the Boilers. But it was Bassett and White that stepped up. It appears that he gets lost in the offensive system. You may need the ball to be productive. That is risky given your TO rate. There were times where you passed the ball when you should have shot the ball. Then there were times where you should have passed the ball on, especially when you drew Basset's or Stemler's man. Defensively I was impressed and I think that with the right coaching you could become a ball hawk. I understand that the Boilers were grabby and physical and you handled that very well, but like I said before you got lost for stretches.

White is going to be a good back up in the league. I can see him flourish in a Washington type system or playing off of a player like Bosh or Dirk. I wish to see your defensive rotation quicker, but since you are the only strong interior defender on the team, I feel that it is hard to judge your overall defense. Are you capable of blocking shots at the next level? Can your midrange %s improve. NBA is strong and quicker can you adjust like your Big Ten counter part, Carl Landry has? I think that you cannot slip our of the first round.

Beasley is having major frustration issues. I think he could have a hero complex in the NBA. I love his skill set but his attitude is scary. If he snaps sometime this season I would expect him to drop out of the 1st slot.

Isaac
02-20-2008, 11:46 PM
Jerryd Bayles is incredible. I think if he continues to improve his outside shot he'll be a mix of Gilbert Arenas and Dwyane Wade in the pros. Yes, that good. He can get to the rim with the best of him and has a great touch.

Kofi
02-20-2008, 11:50 PM
Bayless truly does look like something special. I think he'll end up going top-5, before both Gordon and Mayo.

Edit: just checked the mock draft sites, NBADraft.net has moved him up to 4th, Draft Express has him at #3. Both have Gordon at #5. Mayo is dropping. #7 at D.E. and #12 at NBADraft.net.

Trader Joe
02-20-2008, 11:59 PM
I'm going to have start making a point to watch Bayless since everyone is raving about him. His stats like I said in the Gordon thread are superior to Gordon and Mayo. Also like I said in that thread though the fact that Arizona just can't seem to become a top 25 team is scaring me off a bit. I need to catch more of their games to see if I think that it has more to do with Budinger being way less efficient this season or if they don't play well as a team or what the deal is, but that scares me off from Bayless a bit.

Kofi
02-21-2008, 12:22 AM
Current mock draft picks for the Pacers (#9)....

NBADraft.net (http://www.nbadraft.net)
1st Round: Hasheem Thabeet (http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/hasheemthabeet.html), C, UConn [video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W759jAKSCQ0)]
2nd Round: Courtney Lee (http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/courtneylee.html), SG, Western Kentucky [video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRiuEoSFwLk)]

Draft Express (http://www.draftexpress.com)
1st Round: Chase Budinger (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Chase-Budinger-502/), SG, Arizona [video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID8LSJu4GRQ)]
2nd Round: Derrick Caracter (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Derrick-Caracter-233/), PF, Louisville [video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtCTjwYjIMk)]

Trader Joe
02-21-2008, 12:32 AM
Budinger? Yikes.

Gamble1
02-21-2008, 12:44 AM
Having any success in terms of wins in the ncaa is very overrated these days. It all comes down to workouts and potential.

All I know is Oj Mayo is a phenom with the nba body/athlete with ridiculous potential. He would have been a top 3 pick out of highschool. Nobody is going to pass him up and take Gordon.

So is that what all his boyfriends are saying now?? Dude you've got a serious man crush if I've ever saw one. Workouts are for those who haven't proven enough over the season. Thats why so many "phenom's" deny them to teams before the draft. Why prove what you've already proven?

Kofi
02-21-2008, 12:44 AM
Budinger? Yikes.

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/library/players/small/chase-budinger-hd.jpg

If that's not the face of a future NBA superstar, then I don't know what is. Hmm, actually, he does look a little bit like Dirk....

Funny thing, Draft Express has us taking him in the lottery this year, while NBADraft.net has us taking him in the lottery next year. I guess they think Bird likes the white guys.

Naptown_Seth
02-21-2008, 11:30 AM
Current mock draft picks for the Pacers (#9)....

NBADraft.net (http://www.nbadraft.net)
1st Round: Hasheem Thabeet (http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/hasheemthabeet.html), C, UConn [video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W759jAKSCQ0)]
2nd Round: Courtney Lee (http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/courtneylee.html), SG, Western Kentucky [video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRiuEoSFwLk)]

Draft Express (http://www.draftexpress.com)
1st Round: Chase Budinger (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Chase-Budinger-502/), SG, Arizona [video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID8LSJu4GRQ)]
2nd Round: Derrick Caracter (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Derrick-Caracter-233/), PF, Louisville [video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtCTjwYjIMk)]
I saw that the other day. There goes the credibility of DE.

There is NO way the Pacers take Dunleavy clone Budinger at all, let alone that high in the draft. Not only that, but personally I'd be really PO'd considering what they could have had.

Now Thabeet is a worry. He's raw. I stand by my Antonio Davis comments still, I've seen him plenty since then and nothing has changed. He will block shots and he's athletic. That means that he COULD learn to score a little in addition to his defense and become worthy of a pick that high.

But he might not. Tony needed further time and even with that I think Indy did get lucky with him. Plus in his case they drafted him much, much later than their pick this year will be.

I do like Thabeet more than Hibbert. Hibbert is more ready to go now but I think he's maxed his potential which to me locks him as bench guy or maybe a role player starter. He can score, but he just doesn't have all-star in his game.


I'm not fond of Caracter either, even in round 2.

Naptown_Seth
02-21-2008, 11:34 AM
Bayless - yeah, he's playing his way out of the Pacers reach. :(

Beasley, Rose, Gordon, Bayless


BTW, on the idea of getting the PG later, I'm still big on AJ Price. Problem is he's played his way into the first round already and continues to climb I think.

Rajah Brown
02-22-2008, 12:23 PM
Another name to watch if he comes out is the Westbrook kid at
UCLA.

jmoney2584
02-24-2008, 12:23 AM
Wow, just finished watching Tennessee @ Memphis.. I'm really impressed with Rose's leadership and clutch ability, too bad Tennessee handed them the L.
Tyler Smith from Tennessee is also looking pretty solid, good vision, a power-point style player and he hit that clutch shot at the end.

Also Beasley put up 40+ for the second time this year tonight...dude is going to be such a beast in the pro's.

Kofi
02-24-2008, 01:09 AM
BTW, on the idea of getting the PG later, I'm still big on AJ Price. Problem is he's played his way into the first round already and continues to climb I think.

Given his age (thus the limited upside that the GM's love so much), his past issues, and how stacked with point guards this draft will likely be, I can't see him climbing any higher than into the 20's. If we really wanted him, and he declares, it shouldn't be that hard to get him. Looking at how late 1st's have been practically given away recently, I could see our own high 30's/low 40's 2nd and some $$$ being enough to move into the 20's.

croz24
02-24-2008, 01:17 AM
true beasley put up 40+, but in yet another defeat...beasley NEEDS a wade by his side, otherwise he will be just another tmac who can't will/lead his team to victory...but again, the guy we should look at is beasley's sidekick on kansas st BILL WALKER. of course we need another 1st to grab him, but this guy will slide due to being in beasley's shadow yet has nearly the upside if his injuries are of the past...

Kofi
02-24-2008, 03:06 AM
http://dcprosportsreport.com/NBAMocks.htm

There's a link that links to a ton of various NBA mock drafts. I'd like to see a website that averaged out the draft positions of all the other mocks to create the Ultimate NBA Mock Draft.

Isaac
02-24-2008, 05:33 AM
Bayless - yeah, he's playing his way out of the Pacers reach. :(

You never know. If we end up with say the 8th worst record we would have a decent shot to get a top 3 pick. Based on how it usually goes, we'd have a great chance of getting in there. However, we are the Pacers, and the basketball gods have rarely showed much of a liking in us.

owl
02-24-2008, 08:48 AM
Based on his percentages Bayless looks like a gunner. I have not seen him play.
Thabeet will from day one be a better shot blocker than AD. Thabeet has powerful legs
already and I will not be as worried about his knees ala JO going out on him.
Based on where the Pacers will pick I believe a bigman is who they will take.
Thabeet/Hibbard/Love. The Pacers need defense more than anything or a defender who
can score.

rexnom
02-24-2008, 09:42 AM
Would it be a bad haul for us if we were somehow able to get EJ and DJ in the same draft? Would that help with local excitement and attendance? Also, it's not like these guys are bad players.

Kegboy
02-24-2008, 10:48 AM
http://dcprosportsreport.com/NBAMocks.htm

There's a link that links to a ton of various NBA mock drafts. I'd like to see a website that averaged out the draft positions of all the other mocks to create the Ultimate NBA Mock Draft.

NBA.com did that last year. Of course, they didn't start until May.

Naptown_Seth
02-24-2008, 11:06 AM
Given his age (thus the limited upside that the GM's love so much), his past issues, and how stacked with point guards this draft will likely be, I can't see him climbing any higher than into the 20's. If we really wanted him, and he declares, it shouldn't be that hard to get him. Looking at how late 1st's have been practically given away recently, I could see our own high 30's/low 40's 2nd and some $$$ being enough to move into the 20's.
He's struggled the last couple of games, and I agree that he won't get past maybe 22-25 (going up I mean). Honestly the Pacers are currently slotting around 8-9 and it looks like maybe they could pull Augustin out with that pick.

Then in round 2 some people are putting Weaver and Shipp in that area. I've cooled on Shipp, and yes Westbrook is a similar talent but I just don't really like him for the Pacers thanks to their wings.

Weaver has had some tough outings too, but at that point you are looking for people that can do one thing with impact rather than a regular minutes guy. So Weaver still makes some sense.

However my current dream draft is Augustin (take him over Mayo to reduce risk) and then a trade up into the late first to get Brandon Rush. I really think Rush can be a starting SG in the league, he's really steady and his awareness/smarts is through the roof IMO.

Chalmers has the go-to talent, but it's Rush that reads everything, is the first guy back when someone else turns the ball over, can sidestep into an open jumper that he can make, has range for the NBA 3, and in general just plays a very SMART game.

So #9 - Augustin. Someone drafts Rush around #25, Pacers trade from 9 in round 2 to get him. Nap has a party. :)


I still do like Thabeet even though he's a project. I just think the Pacers need more backcourt help than frontcourt at this point.


You never know. If we end up with say the 8th worst record we would have a decent shot to get a top 3 pick. Based on how it usually goes, we'd have a great chance of getting in there. However, we are the Pacers, and the basketball gods have rarely showed much of a liking in us.
This would make my party even bigger. :)
But I just can't get involved in thinking about Beasley, Rose, EJ, or Bayless as Pacers.


Love - I'd still take him in a heartbeat, I just don't think it happens and the Pacers need a guy like Augustin more. But yesterday he pulled a rebound down on the baseline and within half a second he was sending an outlet to nearly the OTHER FT line, right on target for the quick layup. Love's passing ability, especially outlets, is just insane. It's way past hot streak, fluke, whatever. I have a lot of confidence in his ability to start transition offense extremely well, and that would be a great addition to a running team.

Walker is a player and should make it in the league. As I said earlier though, he's really got a Jackson attitude. He'll yap at refs, force shots and in general throw 'tude at everything. Talented but maybe not quite right for Indy at this point.

Isaac
02-24-2008, 02:57 PM
Augustin at 9 is a hell of a reach. I don't see him going untill the mid-20s.

Young
02-24-2008, 03:12 PM
BTW, on the idea of getting the PG later, I'm still big on AJ Price. Problem is he's played his way into the first round already and continues to climb I think.

I forgot all about Price. He is having a good year.

I'd be worried about his past though. For that i'd stay away from him.

Also, i'm not for sure about his defense.

I'd much rather having Augistin or even Darren Collison though. This is a fairly weak draft for point guards but I like these two the best.

MyFavMartin
02-24-2008, 03:32 PM
I saw that the other day. There goes the credibility of DE.



NS-

DE ranks the players based on perceived talent. They, as well as most mock draft sites this early, do not take into account team need. Budinger is actually a pretty decent player. (The comparison to Dunleavy is a very good one.) I do agree that there is a drop off in talent after about the top 8 players and with the second tier there's either a decrease in talent or upside or an increase in time to develop a player.

This being said, I like DE much more than nbadraft.net. I think DE's rankings of overall talent are better. The mocks of NBAdraft.net change drastically and makes me wonder about their comfort level of their own rankings.

If I were stuck at 9, I would hope to have discovered some hidden gem through workouts. Take a long look at Douglas-Roberts, Westbrook, Thabeet, Augustin, Hibbert...

Of course, it could turn into a draft where teams draft for need and we get someone who drops. I was thinking about Gordon the other day and trying to figure if he would drop based on team needs... I could see Memphis taking him at 4 or taking a big like Lopez instead. I could see the Knicks taking him, but really, I could see them taking a big. Clippers might take him if they don't think they'll stick to Maggete long term.

Of course, draft day could be busy with teams moving up and back. Might the Pacers? I would love see them move up and get Bayless, who I've seen and think he will be very good. He's get's it done on both ends of the court and can penetrate, shoot, create, and facilitate.

Mr. Sobchak
02-24-2008, 03:52 PM
http://dcprosportsreport.com/NBAMocks.htm

There's a link that links to a ton of various NBA mock drafts. I'd like to see a website that averaged out the draft positions of all the other mocks to create the Ultimate NBA Mock Draft.

:laugh: My blog Mock Draft made the website. :D

CableKC
02-24-2008, 04:08 PM
Love - I'd still take him in a heartbeat, I just don't think it happens and the Pacers need a guy like Augustin more. But yesterday he pulled a rebound down on the baseline and within half a second he was sending an outlet to nearly the OTHER FT line, right on target for the quick layup. Love's passing ability, especially outlets, is just insane. It's way past hot streak, fluke, whatever. I have a lot of confidence in his ability to start transition offense extremely well, and that would be a great addition to a running team.
From what I have read about Love ( and the continual praise that you seem to rain on him ), it seems that he is a solid "Chris Webber" like passing Big Man for the future......but he doesn't seem to exactly fit the quick and mobile Big Man that we need.

I know that it's useful to have a very efficient scoing Big Man that can pass out of the paint....but given the unliklihood that JONeal and Murphy ( both offensive minded Big Men where one can only play on both ends of the court ) will be moved anytime soon......from what I have seen all season long and all the weaknesses that JO'Bs defense/offense exposes....wouldn't we need more defensive minded player then another offensive minded players?

I'm not suggesting that he won't be a future Starter for any team....I'm just suggesting that he may not be a good choice for the Pacers. To me...we need players to compliment the scoring Big Men like JONeal and Murphy that we will have for the immediate future.

rexnom
02-24-2008, 05:45 PM
I'd be happy with either Mayo or Augustin.

AesopRockOn
02-24-2008, 06:23 PM
I haven't been following too well, why are Mayo and Augustine (or even Bayless on Arizona I think) being talked about in the same breath? I thought Mayo was a franchise player. I watched him earlier in the season and was impressed at how much better he looked than the guys he was up against. Haven't seen much since though. I do know that Beasley is the number one pick regardless of anything less than a homicide.

owl
02-24-2008, 07:01 PM
From what I have read about Love ( and the continual praise that you seem to rain on him ), it seems that he is a solid "Chris Webber" like passing Big Man for the future......but he doesn't seem to exactly fit the quick and mobile Big Man that we need.

I know that it's useful to have a very efficient scoing Big Man that can pass out of the paint....but given the unliklihood that JONeal and Murphy ( both offensive minded Big Men where one can only play on both ends of the court ) will be moved anytime soon......from what I have seen all season long and all the weaknesses that JO'Bs defense/offense exposes....wouldn't we need more defensive minded player then another offensive minded players?

I'm not suggesting that he won't be a future Starter for any team....I'm just suggesting that he may not be a good choice for the Pacers. To me...we need players to compliment the scoring Big Men like JONeal and Murphy that we will have for the immediate future.

JO's day are numbered with the Pacers regardless. Plus if he is the best talent left, by a good margin, you choose talent over need. As far as a point guard unless he is Rose
or Bayless you try someone in the second round. The other guards Collison and Augustin are
too short to spend that high a pick on. So that leaves bigmen and Gallinari as the options for the Pacers. So unless the Pacers move up in the draft I want to see a bigman picked.

Will Galen
02-24-2008, 07:21 PM
You never know. If we end up with say the 8th worst record we would have a decent shot to get a top 3 pick. Based on how it usually goes, we'd have a great chance of getting in there. However, we are the Pacers, and the basketball gods have rarely showed much of a liking in us.

We have a much better chance of moving back than moving up.