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Kofi
01-05-2008, 05:00 AM
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/4763/15546590hc0.gif (http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/50108/20080104/changes_could_be_on_the_horizon_in_milwaukee/)

The article implies Milwaukee wants to build around Yi and Bogut, and presumably other players of the same age. I wonder if they'd bite on something like Granger, Foster (expiring), and an unprotected 1st for Redd?

A top 5-10 scorer, possibly the best shooter in the league. This guy would be brilliant in Jim O'Brien's system. He'd be a legit #1 option (something we don't have now), allow Dunleavy to move back to his natural SF position, and would free up more minutes for Shawne in the process. That's the type of "retooling" I could live with.

I don't know if they'd do it, Redd will be in high demand, but Larry Bird should at least give it a try.

Kstat
01-05-2008, 05:04 AM
Not sure you can sell Milwaukee on Granger and a mid 1st for their only all-star.

You'd definitely have to take bobby simmons' albatross deal off their hands if you aren't offering any blue chip young talent.

Besides, Im pretty sure Foster has an option year left on his deal...

really tough to see a way for Indiana to get Redd. They'd certainly get better offers elsewhere. Indiana doesn't have the expiring deals or the young talent.

croz24
01-05-2008, 05:18 AM
this team is going nowhere regardless...the best thing for the franchise to do would be to just tank it this season, attempt to acquire a pick or two by trading jo, foster, and/or granger, and rebuild through the draft(s)...

Will Galen
01-05-2008, 05:27 AM
really tough to see a way for Indiana to get Redd. They'd certainly get better offers elsewhere. Indiana doesn't have the expiring deals or the young talent.

I agree that it would be really tough for Indiana to get Redd.

But say they would trade JO for a Laker package that includes Brown, they could then include him along with Granger and a pick (in a 3 way) and I think the Buck's would have interest. I didn't check to see if that works. (I hate when others suggest trades that they have no idea if it works) I'll check it out.

But if you are saying Indiana doesn't have ANY young talent, I disagree.

Will Galen
01-05-2008, 06:06 AM
Okay, I got one to work but it would add $6m to the Pacers payroll. That will never happen with the way our attendance is right now.

Milwaukee Bucks


<table class="tablehead" style="clear: both;" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="colhead"><th colspan="2">Incoming Players</th></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td width="35">http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/35x48/3943.jpg</td><td valign="top">Danny Granger
Salary: $1,516,800 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 16.6 REB: 5.7 AST: 1.9 PER: 14.66
</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td width="35">http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/35x48/3511.jpg</td><td valign="top">Kwame Brown
Salary: $9,075,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 4.4 REB: 5.3 AST: 1.4 PER: 11.29
</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td width="35">http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/35x48/4145.jpg</td><td valign="top">Shawne Williams
Salary: $1,470,360 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 7.5 REB: 3.0 AST: 1.0 PER: 13.45
</td></tr></tbody></table>


Los Angeles Lakers

<table class="tablehead" style="clear: both;" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="colhead"><th colspan="2">Incoming Players</th></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td width="35">http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/35x48/3120.jpg</td><td valign="top">Jermaine O'Neal
Salary: $19,728,000 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 15.9 REB: 7.6 AST: 2.8 PER: 16.70
</td></tr></tbody></table>

Indiana Pacers

<table class="tablehead" style="clear: both;" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="colhead"><th colspan="2">Incoming Players</th></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td width="35">http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/35x48/3442.jpg</td><td valign="top">Michael Redd
Salary: $14,520,000 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 23.4 REB: 4.9 AST: 3.8 PER: 20.98
</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td width="35">http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/35x48/3327.jpg</td><td valign="top">Lamar Odom
Salary: $13,248,596 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 14.1 REB: 8.9 AST: 2.3 PER: 13.78
</td></tr></tbody></table>

Bball
01-05-2008, 06:20 AM
I don't necessarily think adding 6 mil to the payroll should be a killer. What does an injection of life and a notable name do to the bottom line? One thing the Pacers (management) are absolutely lousy at is creating any electricity in fandom. That might be something they need to start changing ASAP and look for ways to do it.

Would a trade that brought a Michael Redd here create that buzz? Probably... or at least go a long ways toward it... But giving up Granger, Williams, -and- JO is probably the killer in your scenario. That might be enough to balance out the good PR buzz of a big trade and make it a wash in the PR battles.

2 of those players, with JO being one is probably OK. Certainly I think JO and Williams would be OK (considering Williams isn't getting much PT these days). But I don't think fans are ready to wave goodbye to Granger just yet unless we keep Williams around and hype him (and then he lives up to it) as needing the minutes that Granger was taking from him.

Fans might bite on that long enough to get some people looking. Then -IF- the team performs and shows -something-, they might stick around and reverse the attendance trend we are seeing now.

BTW... How old is Michael Redd?

(EDIT: Upon further review the Al Harrington return did create some buzz. But then several people were saying it wasn't a smart move and would blow up because it was all about the buzz (fan pacifier) without any real substance for the team in general). My point is that the move needs to make sense on BOTH fronts or it will fizzle out... if it even gets off the ground in the first place).

-Bball

Will Galen
01-05-2008, 07:12 AM
I don't necessarily think adding 6 mil to the payroll should be a killer.

BTW... How old is Michael Redd?
Aug,24,1979, he's 28





Several years ago I would have agreed with you but not now. Now the Pacers are so concerned with the bottom line they keep cutting Sims.

As for the deal I wanted the Lakers to add Javaris Crittenton to be sent to the Pacers but it didn't work. That would be what the rumor was that the Lakers were offering for JO over the Summer. (Brown, Odem, Crittenton) Some rumors even had the Laker's adding a #1.

Rajah Brown
01-05-2008, 08:45 AM
Interesting thought Kofi. That's the only type deal worth considering
with changing things THIS year in mind. Otherwise, I'd say let's just
wait until late Spring and do something to grab a Lottery pick and
hopefully, one of the elite G's who come out this year (Gordon, Bayless,
etc.).

Alpolloloco
01-05-2008, 12:32 PM
Too bad the Bucks don't need JO so a 3rd team is indeed necesarry. But Granger is going nowhere, we need at least one capable wing defender next to a Tinsley/Redd backcourt.

odeez
01-05-2008, 01:43 PM
It would be nice to get a shooter like Redd. But doubt it is possible. Though I would love to see something happen. Even though we won last night, I know our chances of making any noise in the playoffs are slim. Would like to keep Danny in any deals. I still think he is going to be a great player down the road.

Trader Joe
01-05-2008, 01:55 PM
Too bad the Bucks don't need JO so a 3rd team is indeed necesarry. But Granger is going nowhere, we need at least one capable wing defender next to a Tinsley/Redd backcourt.

Yeah, I agree with this. While Granger's D isn't stellar we would have no one even remotely capable of guarding the better wing players with Tins, Redd, and Dun as our starters. We'd have to do something to solve that. How is Bobby Simmons's D these days? I know he's been a disappointment, but can he be a solid defensive player off the bench for us?

Kofi
01-05-2008, 02:02 PM
A deal I proposed on the Bucks forum: http://www2.jsonline.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=54896


INDIANA TRADES
Danny Granger
Jeff Foster
Marquis Daniels
2008 1st Round Pick (unprotected)

MILWAUKEE TRADES
Michael Redd

Granger is one of the finest young small forward in the league. He's averaging 17 points, 6 rebounds, and 2 assists per game. He's also a very solid defender, and averages a steal and a block per game.

Bucks new front court: SF Granger - PF Jianlian - C Bogut

That's a very young and talented front court with the potential to be one of the leagues best for the next decade. You'd then have your own 1st rounder and Indiana's to draft your back-court to go along with them. The 2008 draft will likely be loaded with guards, so it's certainly plausible. (Rose, Gordon, Mayo, Collison, Lawson, etc.)

Jeff Foster is a very solid center who can defend and rebounds like a mad man. He has a player option at the end of the year, it's iffy whether he'll accept or not. Marquis Daniels' contract ends in two seasons, the same time as Bobby Simmons', and the same time Bogut, Granger, and Villanueva will need resigned . Quis is a solid, underrated player (good per-minute production) and can help fill Redd's void at shooting guard.


Since Larry Bird seems so dead-set on winning now and saying screw you to the future, this deal would help accomplish that. Michael Redd is a legit All-Star and one of the top scorers in the league. He's arguably the leagues best shooter, as good as he is in Milwaukee I think he could be even better in Jim O'Brien's offensive system. We can also move Dun back to the SF position, and also free up some more minutes for Shawne as the backup at small forward. I'd prefer to keep Jeff, but if moving him could help us land an All-Star SG than bye bye.

Starters: PG Tinsley - SG Redd - SF Dunleavy - PF O'Neal - C Foster

Backups: PG Diener - SG Rush - SF Williams - PF Diogu - C Murphy

I could live with that. That's a team that could actually make some noise.

I'd also be ok with working something out with J.O. for Redd. Reading around, it's been mentioned on other forums and most seem to be ok with it. You could expand the deal and include Diener (Wisconsin native) and Charlie Bell. Bell's a noted perimeter defender, something we could definitely use.

Will Galen
01-05-2008, 02:18 PM
A deal I proposed on the Bucks forum: http://www2.jsonline.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=54896




Since Larry Bird seems so dead-set on winning now and saying screw you to the future, this deal would help accomplish that. Michael Redd is a legit All-Star and one of the top scorers in the league. He's arguably the leagues best shooter, as good as he is in Milwaukee I think he could be even better in Jim O'Brien's offensive system. We can also move Dun back to the SF position, and also free up some more minutes for Shawne as the backup at small forward. I'd prefer to keep Jeff, but if moving him could help us land an All-Star SG than bye bye.

Starters: PG Tinsley - SG Redd - SF Dunleavy - PF O'Neal - C Foster

Backups: PG Diener - SG Rush - SF Williams - PF Diogu - C Murphy

I could live with that. That's a team that could actually make some noise.

I'd also be ok with working something out with J.O. for Redd. Reading around, it's been mentioned on other forums and most seem to be ok with it. You could expand the deal and include Diener (Wisconsin native) and Charlie Bell. Bell's a noted perimeter defender, something we could definitely use.

How would Foster be a starter, he's in your trade? I wouldn't do it by the way.

Mourning
01-05-2008, 02:23 PM
How would Foster be a starter, he's in your trade? I wouldn't do it by the way.

Me neither.

Kofi
01-05-2008, 02:35 PM
How would Foster be a starter, he's in your trade? I wouldn't do it by the way.

Oops. :blush:

I think some of you are underrating Michael Redd a lot. He's a 25/5/3 guy and a lights out shooter. He's about on the same level now as Ray Allen was in his prime. I'm all for the future, but this guy is a legitimate All-Star, something Danny Granger most likely will never become. If we must play for the now, then I'd be all over a deal like this.

Fun Fact: Michael Redd's birthday is August 24th, the same as Reggie Miller. He was meant to be a Pacer and Reggie's true successor.

Alpolloloco
01-05-2008, 02:37 PM
A deal I proposed on the Bucks forum: http://www2.jsonline.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=54896




Since Larry Bird seems so dead-set on winning now and saying screw you to the future, this deal would help accomplish that. Michael Redd is a legit All-Star and one of the top scorers in the league. He's arguably the leagues best shooter, as good as he is in Milwaukee I think he could be even better in Jim O'Brien's offensive system. We can also move Dun back to the SF position, and also free up some more minutes for Shawne as the backup at small forward. I'd prefer to keep Jeff, but if moving him could help us land an All-Star SG than bye bye.

Starters: PG Tinsley - SG Redd - SF Dunleavy - PF O'Neal - C Foster

Backups: PG Diener - SG Rush - SF Williams - PF Diogu - C Murphy

I could live with that. That's a team that could actually make some noise.

I'd also be ok with working something out with J.O. for Redd. Reading around, it's been mentioned on other forums and most seem to be ok with it. You could expand the deal and include Diener (Wisconsin native) and Charlie Bell. Bell's a noted perimeter defender, something we could definitely use.

Change Granger to Williams, who isn't looking like a stellar defender after all and we can go with a Tinsley-Redd-Dunleavy-Granger-JO lineup.

LG33
01-05-2008, 03:21 PM
Dunleavy can't play SF.

Hicks
01-05-2008, 04:28 PM
Dunleavy can't play SF.

Dunleavy is already a SF.....

Robertmto
01-05-2008, 04:35 PM
Dunleavy can't play SF.


Dunleavy is already a SF.....

Thats the point. LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

tora tora
01-05-2008, 05:32 PM
If the Pacers wouldn't give up Granger for Iverson I doubt they will give him up for Redd.

aceace
01-05-2008, 05:35 PM
I agree.... if we are to become better and make some noise this year, we need to add a guy like Redd. We would have to make some sacrifices. Either Granger or Williams maybe Ike (who I would hate to lose) and a bigger contract to make up the difference. Redd would fit in nicely to JOBs system. Give us one of the best outside threats in the league and open things up for JO. I don't see Bucks doing this.

Major Cold
01-05-2008, 06:08 PM
if we can trade Granger and Ike and a 1st along with the right salary pieces we should be able to pick him up.

Arcadian
01-05-2008, 06:15 PM
I wouldn't sacrifice any of our glut of sfs to get a true sg. What about the dream of a all small forward line up? Is there no vision in this organization.

Young
01-05-2008, 10:00 PM
I like Michael Reed. He is one player I think that I would like if we did trade Granger. Reed is in his prime.

I think if we give up Danny that he could be what the Bucks want.

But here is the thing, how much better would we really be by getting Reed? Lets say we do a deal similar to one Kofi proposed our lineup is this:

Tinsley/Reed/Dunleavy/O'Neal/Murphy with Rush, Williams, Diogu, Harrison off the bench. Better than what we have but not good enough for me. We still have some major flaws. Like the fact that we would be a worse team on defense.

How is that lineup any better than the Pistons or Celtics? I don't feel it is and I don't think that there would be much hope improving to much without further trading.

Sure Reed would make us a better team but not as good as we need to be.

Reckoner
01-06-2008, 12:09 AM
JO + Dunleavy for Redd and Gadzuric works.

Would you do it ?

Leaves the front court a bit weak but strengthens the back court (though I like Mike).

Will Galen
01-06-2008, 12:55 AM
JO + Dunleavy for Redd and Gadzuric works.

Would you do it ?

Leaves the front court a bit weak but strengthens the back court (though I like Mike).

No! That's not even close to something I'd want to do.

I tried last night to find a trade I really liked but the only one I liked wouldn't work. That was the three way with the Lakers, and I don't know if I would have did that. I really don't want to fix the back court at the expense of the front court. I agree with Rommie's post.

Mourning
01-06-2008, 07:49 AM
JO + Dunleavy for Redd and Gadzuric works.

Would you do it ?

Leaves the front court a bit weak but strengthens the back court (though I like Mike).

Hell No! And I am biased in Gadzuric favour as he is Dutch just like me, so I would love to have him on the Pacers, same with Francisco Elson, but this trade is not what we should want!

Reckoner
01-06-2008, 08:21 AM
Fair enough. My reasoning is that it's basically JO for Redd and we save some cap space. This is because Redd would take the bulk of the SG minutes which is Dunleavy's best spot and so he'd be wasted, as IMO Granger is the better SF and we'd still have depth with Rush, Daniels and Williams for those wing spots.

Mourning
01-06-2008, 01:34 PM
Well... I understand your reasoning, don't get me wrong. Personally I just don't believe in building this team up by making trades for other players that are in their prime now. In other words I don't believe in the "win now" modus operandi for this team to pay off enough to be nearly worth it.

I simply believe we have to get younger players, draft picks, expirings and usefull veterans. Just my :twocents:.

Oneal07
01-06-2008, 02:04 PM
If we want to win now. . .I would try to get him. But I don't know who we'd have to give up to get him!!! Maybe in the offseason, it would be better to see. Cause I like the team we have now (WHEN THEY PLAY WITH HEART AND NOT STAND AROUND SETTLING FOR JUMPSHOTS) :)

JayRedd
01-06-2008, 02:33 PM
Why are the Bucks trading Michael Redd?

Phildog
01-06-2008, 02:36 PM
Why are the Bucks trading Michael Redd?

I don't think they are.