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Pacerized
12-31-2007, 09:04 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-071230samsmithnotes,1,4245289.story?coll=cs-home-headlines



"Houston, with Luis Scola coming on, won its first back-to-back set and had at least five players in double figures for the second straight game, both without Tracy McGrady. It's giving the team more reason to move McGrady, who is said to have quietly let it be known he's no longer happy in Houston. With the Rockets still in need of a point guard, you could see them working out a package that includes Hinrich and Andres Nocioni."

He's as injury prone as J.O., and the salaries match.
Would you make the trade?

Kstat
12-31-2007, 09:06 PM
I would. The deal makes a lot of sense for both sides. Houston needs a big man and Indiana needs a go-to scorer.

Trader Joe
12-31-2007, 09:12 PM
I would. The deal makes a lot of sense for both sides. Houston needs a big man and Indiana needs a go-to scorer.

Man what does that say about Yao?

Kstat
12-31-2007, 09:15 PM
it says he needs some muscle next to him. The same could be said for JO.

Ewing needed Oakley, Robinson needed Duncan, Parish Needed McHale, etc. It's not unheard of.

rexnom
12-31-2007, 10:41 PM
I'd do it. Not much to lose.

Erik
12-31-2007, 11:07 PM
There might be an attendance burst if this trade went down.

andreialta
12-31-2007, 11:09 PM
Tmac may be injured but i think he still got a lot of game left in him when 100% healthy, more than what JO could give us given him being 100%

Pacerized
12-31-2007, 11:14 PM
I'm not sure it would solve all of our problems, but I think we're deeper at the 4/5 we really have no starting caliber 2. This would of course make Rush unnecessary, and create a logjam again at the 3. Tmac may be a little more injury prone then J.O., and I'd think they have about equal trade value right now. They both have 2 years remaining on their contracts.
I'd give the following lineup a go.
Foster
Ike
Granger
Tmac
Tinsley

rexnom
12-31-2007, 11:26 PM
Won't their number one goal be to find a PG?

AesopRockOn
12-31-2007, 11:26 PM
Isn't T-Mac retiring when he's thirty or something?

That said, he's much better (and more clutch) than JO.

Lord Helmet
12-31-2007, 11:34 PM
If I was sure T-Mac was going to be healthy and play past 30, hell, I'd probably do it.

Cactus Jax
12-31-2007, 11:58 PM
Won't their number one goal be to find a PG?

Well we could also include Jamaal as well.

Something like:

Indiana trades: Jermaine O'Neal + Jamaal Tinsley

Houston trades: Tracy Mcgrady + Mike James (could also be Shane Battier) + Kirk Snyder (cap relief). If the Pacers are lucky, they might be able to snag a 1st round pick as well.

granger33
01-01-2008, 12:50 AM
Man, what did i say in the other thread? we need a clutch player like Gordon. If we could snag T-mac that would be great.

Just cant imagine him in a pacers uniform though.

aero
01-01-2008, 01:27 AM
Id do the trade, hell at this point id do just about any trade. we need to get this team moving in the right direction. Im not happy with an "about .500 team" or below...

Hicks
01-01-2008, 01:44 AM
This team needs an injury-prone shooting guard much more than it needs an injury-prone power forward/center consider our roster and our style. I'd do it. Actually, since they want a PG, this could be the franchise's chance to trade JO AND Tinsley to (potentially, in theory) pacify the whiners who are staying home because of those two while making a trade that might actually help the team. Give us Mike James and a pick for Tinsley (or whatever works that's similar) and swap JO for T-Mac.

granger33
01-01-2008, 02:03 AM
Can someone give me some insight if Bird would actually seriously consider putting something on the table for T-Mac?

Just as long as ive been going for the pacers (8 years) everytime there is a good player on the block, i never hear once Indiana pushing for him.

Trader Joe
01-01-2008, 02:05 AM
Well Walsh had interest in T-Mac back in the day. Don't know if he still does though.

Lord Helmet
01-01-2008, 02:13 AM
This team needs an injury-prone shooting guard much more than it needs an injury-prone power forward/center consider our roster and our style. I'd do it. Actually, since they want a PG, this could be the franchise's chance to trade JO AND Tinsley to (potentially, in theory) pacify the whiners who are staying home because of those two while making a trade that might actually help the team. Give us Mike James and a pick for Tinsley (or whatever works that's similar) and swap JO for T-Mac.
I'd do that.

Rajah Brown
01-01-2008, 08:22 AM
Hey, maybe HOU will throw in the Aaron Brooks. He's pretty
much the reincarnation of Dana Barros, O'B's old missle
launcher from his early Celtic days.

BoomBaby33
01-01-2008, 10:49 AM
This team needs an injury-prone shooting guard much more than it needs an injury-prone power forward/center consider our roster and our style. I'd do it. Actually, since they want a PG, this could be the franchise's chance to trade JO AND Tinsley to (potentially, in theory) pacify the whiners who are staying home because of those two while making a trade that might actually help the team. Give us Mike James and a pick for Tinsley (or whatever works that's similar) and swap JO for T-Mac.

Someone get Larry on the phone. NOW. This is exactly what we need.

It makes too much sense for both sides, and most importantly attendance. I guarantee that the fans would come flocking back to Conseco to see TMac every night. We would have someone who could actually get to the rim and the free throw line when he wanted to.

JayRedd
01-01-2008, 10:53 AM
Mike James AND a pick for Jamaal Tinsley? Really? Good luck with that.

BoomBaby33
01-01-2008, 11:00 AM
PG Mike James
SG TMac
SF DunDun
PF Danny
C Jeff / Hulk / Troy depending on the matchup

Backups:
PG Quisy / Owens
SG Rush
SF Shawne (he has got to start playing some D and get back in the rotation, we need his shooting)
PF Ike
C Jeff / Hulk / Troy

Inactives:
Diener
Graham

Kegboy
01-01-2008, 11:13 AM
Mike James AND a pick for Jamaal Tinsley? Really? Good luck with that.

I'd rather have Mike James and Luthor :censored:. James has fallen off a cliff from his Toronto days.

Moses
01-01-2008, 11:16 AM
I'd trade JO and Tins for TMac and Mike James in a heartbeat.

NuffSaid
01-01-2008, 11:41 AM
Okay. Let's take a step back and really look at this trade proposal.

The Pacers are already dealing with fluctuating lineups/rotations due to injuries. They've got JO in and out of the starting lineup because of his knee. And then there's Quis from the 2nd unit for the same reason. Add Foster and Harrison for their back spasms and that's four players with recurring injuries this team has to deal with. As good as T-Mac is - and believe me I'd love to have him on this team - why would you want to add one more player with a history of injuries to this roster even as short as that injury history might be?

T-Mac sat out half of the '05-06 season w/back spasms and sat out the first 7 games or so to start the '06-07 w/the same problem. Now, he has tendinitis in his left knee and his return to Houston's lineup is still in question. Hadn't the Pacers gone through this before with Quis and JO last year? Think it through, folks.

The other issue w/this trade proposal is you'd be trading away good interior defense for good perimeter offense. When was the last time T-Mac really shut anyone down? And with his tendinitis problem do you really think he'd improve this team's back court defensive woes? Once again, think it through.

When he's on, T-Mac is about as good as it gets! There are probably only five or six good SGs/SFs out there who can create off the dribble AND are as clutch as he is: Kobe, AI, Dwade, LeBron and Melo to name who I believe are the top five. But the one difference between T-Mac and those five players is health not to mention they've all shown a willingness to play injured. I'm not too sure about T-Mac in that regard.

If the Pacers were to go after T-Mac, IMO they'd be better off making a 2-for-1 trade involving Dunleavy and Deiner rather than giving up JO and fuller. Why?

The Rockets need that perimeter scorer. Plus, with Steve Francis' availability also in question they need another PG. Deiner has shown he can run an offense and offords them another 3-pt threat. No, he hasn't been consistent from downtown, but he has shown he can find the bottom of the net from long range. Still, to me it's a huge gamble for the Pacers because they'd be giving up a player who hasn't missed a game since acquiring him, fits very well in JOB's offense and has shown he can score versus a player who although we all know can score has had some health issues recently.

Bottom line here is T-Mac for JO just doesn't work for either team. T-Mac for Dunleavy w/Deiner could. It's a gamble, but it's probably one I'd do IF I had some assurance that this tendinitis issue wouldn't be a constant problem. JOB would probably have to "manage" it just as he's trying to manage Quis' knee injury by not playing him in too many back-to-back games or limiting his minutes. Still, by adding T-Mac to the mix he'd now have three key players with injury management issues to deal with. I just don't think it's worth it.

Kegboy
01-01-2008, 11:52 AM
Setting aside that's a greater homer-trade than anything we saw from the LA fans, Nuff, the salaries don't come close to matching.

Jose Slaughter
01-01-2008, 12:14 PM
If your going to start with Dunleavy you'll need to add Daniels & Foster. That comes pretty close to matching up, salary wise anyway.

Houston can throw in a scrub or ending contract to help balance out the rosters.

Either way, its not going to happen. When T-Mac was on his way out of Orlando he made it pretty clear that Indy was not on his list of places to play. We had a lot better team then than we do now so if he's moved it won't be here.

Hicks
01-01-2008, 12:18 PM
Mike James AND a pick for Jamaal Tinsley? Really? Good luck with that.

Considering Mike James is part of the reason they "need a point guard", yes. His numbers aren't nearly what JT's are either (8pts 2ast when you round both up). In fact, they love him so much in Houston he plays a whopping 18 mpg. I think he'd look better here because he can defend and hit shots (going by career %s anyway).

BoomBaby33
01-01-2008, 12:25 PM
If your going to start with Dunleavy you'll need to add Daniels & Foster. That comes pretty close to matching up, salary wise anyway.

Houston can throw in a scrub or ending contract to help balance out the rosters.

Either way, its not going to happen. When T-Mac was on his way out of Orlando he made it pretty clear that Indy was not on his list of places to play. We had a lot better team then than we do now so if he's moved it won't be here.

TMac doesn't have a no trade clause though. There is only one Kobe in the NBA.

Hicks
01-01-2008, 12:28 PM
I think when T-Mac has people kissing his feet after he shows up and hits some clutch shots and makes a few sick dunks he'll feel OK about Indiana. Most players who come here with his attitude do.

Jose Slaughter
01-01-2008, 12:55 PM
No trade clause or not, a player of T-Mac's status has a say in where he goes. If he lets it be known he won't be happy with a trade to Indy then my guess is, he wouldn't be traded to Indy.

pianoman
01-01-2008, 01:01 PM
if we could get t-mac for Dunleavy, daniels, and diener and maybe a pick... that probrably would do wonders for us. T-mac could flourish in this offense.
just think.....if they were all healthy......BIG 3 JO, DANNY, T-MAC (plus Tinsley)
hmmmm...... a starting lineup of

Troy
JO
Danny
T-MAC
Tinsley


ooooo i like it!!!!

i think tinsley and t-mac would be a great backcourt

grace
01-01-2008, 01:48 PM
I think when T-Mac has people kissing his feet after he shows up and hits some clutch shots and makes a few sick dunks he'll feel OK about Indiana. Most players who come here with his attitude do.

It's going to be a moot point because with Tracy's injury history he'll be lucky to play 2/3 of a season.

Trader Joe
01-01-2008, 02:10 PM
The idea of Mike James as our starting PG doesn't sit well with me at least not with the way he is playing right now.

BlueNGold
01-01-2008, 02:19 PM
It's going to be a moot point because with Tracy's injury history he'll be lucky to play 2/3 of a season.

Yes, when you think of TMac, you think injury.

Same with JO. In fact, TMac played more games last year than JO and more in total the last 5 seasons...and even more career-wise in one less season.

Talentwise, TMac > JO, but both have the added quality of disrupting team development by not playing much. Not a recipe for success.

NuffSaid
01-01-2008, 02:21 PM
Setting aside that's a greater homer-trade than anything we saw from the LA fans, Nuff, the salaries don't come close to matching.
My "homerism" has nothing to do with my commentary. I looked at getting T-Mac from a logical point of view. And logically, going the "T-Mac for JO" route just doesn't help both teams; there's no "win-win" for both sides.

As for the salaries matching, I never said I used a trade machine. :p Still, it makes more sense to me to give up one shooter for another along with a serviceable 3rd string PG than to do a straight-up trade that involves our best interior defender who is also our top interior scorer. JO and T-Mac would definitely compliment each other's game. IMO, TPTB would be foolish to give up one (JO) just to get the other (T-Mac).

Oh, and Kegboy, since you've done the homework on the salaries you tell me if the Pacers would be giving up too much or too little salary wise. If too much, find another scenario that would work w/o taking away from the team's strengths. Like him or not, JO does present this team with an interior presence that would be difficult to replace. On the other hand, this team does have shooters, just none who are dead-eye killers from anywhere on the floor. T-Mac would provide that for sure, but acquiring him w/o depleting the team which is already on shaky ground...that's the trick.


Yes, when you think of TMac, you think injury.

Same with JO. In fact, TMac played more games last year than JO and more in total the last 5 seasons...and even more career-wise in one less season.

Talentwise, TMac > JO, but both have the added quality of disrupting team development by not playing much. Not a recipe for success.
Exactly my point!

Young
01-01-2008, 02:22 PM
We don't need another injury prone player.

Secondly it would be really stupid for us to swap Jermaine for McGrady. Our lineup would be less balanced and we would be an even worse defensive team.

And if we deal Jermaine I want it to be for a re building package. It's gotta be. It doesn't make sense to deal Jermaine for an injury prone shooting guard. Yes Tracy is damn good but not a top 10 player and not going to make us better.

Kegboy
01-01-2008, 02:40 PM
IMO, TPTB would be foolish to give up one (JO) just to get the other (T-Mac).

It would be more foolish for Houston to give up one without even getting the other in return. JO may not be a good fit for them, but you're not going to get a star player (even a disgruntled, oft-injured one) for Dunleavy and scraps.

BlueNGold
01-01-2008, 02:41 PM
Unless we plan to trade JO, I would do this:

TMac for Granger, Quis and Murphy.

I think that works financially...and also think it's a fair trade. It's a lot to give up, but anytime you can move up the talent scale you are better off.

Dunleavy or Williams can play SF. Rush can backup TMac. Ike backs up JO. Foster and Harrison in the middle.

Kegboy
01-01-2008, 02:44 PM
I don't think Houston will listen to a proposal that doesn't include Tinsley.

BlueNGold
01-01-2008, 02:47 PM
I don't think Houston will listen to a proposal that doesn't include Tinsley.

Are you kidding? If so, go with this:

TMac for Tinsley, Quis and Murphy.

Who needs a PG anyway? Actually, I would deal Granger (who does have good market value) for a solid PG.

The starting 5 would get a huge boost with TMac.

Roaming Gnome
01-01-2008, 03:03 PM
The only way that I could see this deal for T-mac going down is in a PR situation. This team needs a shot in the arm as far as intrest goes, and just getting rid of players that are said to be "not liked" and being a .500 team is not going to get intrest factor back in the franchise.

Believe it or not, there is NO ONE on this team that is "must see" to the very casual fan. We have not had that player since Reggie hung 'em up. As good as Jermaine was, he was never the player that could draw a crowd in the stands like McGrady still could.

SamBear
01-01-2008, 05:07 PM
If the Rockets can develope Scola then him and Yao can make some noise in the Western Conference. It won't be this year but it will be in years to come.

tdubb03
01-01-2008, 05:26 PM
Where's this McGrady retiring at 30 come from? Did he say that?

jmoney2584
01-01-2008, 05:33 PM
How about this... Indiana trades Jermaine O'neal, Jamaal Tinsley, and Shawne williams (or Diougu whomever you loathe more) for T-mac, Mike James and their unprotected 2008 first rounder. Pacers get rid of jermaine and tinsley, shawne is gone which clears up some more room at the 3 instead of adding t-mac to an allready abundant position AND Indy has two picks both of which would be decent in this years draft which we can keep or move up to get a Rose or Gordon type player....holla.

Mourning
01-01-2008, 05:43 PM
How about this... Indiana trades Jermaine O'neal, Jamaal Tinsley, and Shawne williams (or Diougu whomever you loathe more) for T-mac, Mike James and their unprotected 2008 first rounder. Pacers get rid of jermaine and tinsley, shawne is gone which clears up some more room at the 3 instead of adding t-mac to an allready abundant position AND Indy has two picks both of which would be decent in this years draft which we can keep or move up to get a Rose or Gordon type player....holla.

How about no? Atleast I would be against it. Ike, Danny or Shawne should be kept unless it nets us something we absolutely and crucially need and that "something" would have to be relatively young at the sametime IMO.

I have no problem with trading JO for T-Mac, except that I don't really see it helping us much if at all. It does give Ike, Shawne and David more minutes at the frontcourt positions it also makes life easier for Danny and Shawne with T-Mac most likely getting the best perimeter defender on him and a lot of time likely double teams, but I just don't really see how this makes us really better.

The Dun Dun and Diener for T-Mac trade. I aggree with Keggie there. It's way to one-sided in our favour. Besides I don't really view Mike as a "shooter" to be honest. T-Mac even with his injury issues of the past view years has more value then Dun Dun and Diener IMO. We would on top of that as noted have to add another medium contract to make it work.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

BoomBaby33
01-01-2008, 07:19 PM
We don't need another injury prone player.



No, but for an oft-injured JO himself, why not? Someone else already pointed out that JO has missed more time than TMac over the past 3-4-5 years.

The bigger selling point is what I mentioned earlier and Gnome just said also - it would be a HUGE PR boost. It would almost certainly put booties backs in the seats in Conseco pretty quickly.

The other point I would like to make, that I touched on in the DG Bandwagon thread, it would let Danny be more of a leader. Plus, I think we play better without JO anyway. JMO.

This trade absolutely makes too much sense. The only negative I could think of is whether Mike James can run this offense like Tins can. The other question is would Houston do this and put JO up next to Yao on their front line. Not sure how that would work.

BoomBaby33
01-01-2008, 07:24 PM
No trade clause or not, a player of T-Mac's status has a say in where he goes. If he lets it be known he won't be happy with a trade to Indy then my guess is, he wouldn't be traded to Indy.

I don't think he would though. Like Mal said, I think he would welcome being THE man in Indy. It would get him out of the Yao's shadow - literally and figuratively.

Doddage
01-01-2008, 07:57 PM
I'm sure, if anywhere, T-Mac would want to go a serious playoff contender rather than a likely first round elimination (which he seems to have that effect on whatever team he's on, anyway).

Young
01-01-2008, 09:52 PM
No, but for an oft-injured JO himself, why not? Someone else already pointed out that JO has missed more time than TMac over the past 3-4-5 years.

The bigger selling point is what I mentioned earlier and Gnome just said also - it would be a HUGE PR boost. It would almost certainly put booties backs in the seats in Conseco pretty quickly.

The other point I would like to make, that I touched on in the DG Bandwagon thread, it would let Danny be more of a leader. Plus, I think we play better without JO anyway. JMO.

This trade absolutely makes too much sense. The only negative I could think of is whether Mike James can run this offense like Tins can. The other question is would Houston do this and put JO up next to Yao on their front line. Not sure how that would work.

I don't to trade for another injury prone player though. Especially one that doesn't make us better.

I don't know how much of a PR boost it would be really. I mean McGrady can draw bigger crowds than Jermaine but enough to make a difference? I don't think so at least. I think that winning is a much better PR boost and this trade doesn't give us that.

OnlyPacersLeft
01-01-2008, 09:52 PM
yeah don't they make about the same? lol
T-mac would be awesome on this team!

OnlyPacersLeft
01-01-2008, 09:56 PM
any way we can get t-mac without giving up JO or granger? if so man i'd do that and lets challenge the c's for the top!

BruceLeeroy
01-01-2008, 10:20 PM
How about this... Indiana trades Jermaine O'neal, Jamaal Tinsley, and Shawne williams (or Diougu whomever you loathe more) for T-mac, Mike James and their unprotected 2008 first rounder. Pacers get rid of jermaine and tinsley, shawne is gone which clears up some more room at the 3 instead of adding t-mac to an allready abundant position AND Indy has two picks both of which would be decent in this years draft which we can keep or move up to get a Rose or Gordon type player....holla.

I like it. Not sure if it makes us better this year but it sets us up nice for the future.

Myself and the other whiners:rolleyes: who don't care to pay to watch certain players would go to more games. No doubt about that.

Also T-mac would have more re-sale value if we chose to package him and one of our picks to get in position to draft your boy.

jmoney2584
01-01-2008, 11:07 PM
I like it. Not sure if it makes us better this year but it sets us up nice for the future.

Myself and the other whiners:rolleyes: who don't care to pay to watch certain players would go to more games. No doubt about that.

Also T-mac would have more re-sale value if we chose to package him and one of our picks to get in position to draft your boy.

Exactly, I'm done with this year. Yes, I will continue to watch but it pains me to watch mediocrity. Either ***** or get off the pot so to speak...no one we have is going to get us into contention, the only way is by adding to our talent and we have no players that could net us anyone worth anything because of all our awful salary to talent ratios. The ABSOLUTE worst thing the Pacers could do this year is to sneak into the playoffs at a 6-8 seed, forgoe a lottery pick and be ousted in the first round. Why we are not in rebuilding mode allready (unless we are waiting until the offseason/draft day to swing some deals) is a mystery to me. I would love to have EJ on this team for the future but i can live with some smart rebuilding choices..he just happens to be my current favorite player. There is an assload of talent in this draft and to not try and take advantage of it in our current state is a slap in the face to the fan base. We have poor guards and frontline potential, so go get some young guards to go with that frontline potential so we can build a good future franchise. I would love to snag a gordon/rose and a deandre jordan type in the draft...probably not likely but more worth mulling over than watching us flounder around in the kiddie pool of the NBA. PS...go pacers

Fool
01-01-2008, 11:27 PM
Where's this McGrady retiring at 30 come from? Did he say that?

Yes.

tora tora
01-01-2008, 11:48 PM
It would be incredible, but unfortunately he hates Indiana.

BoomBaby33
01-02-2008, 08:52 AM
I don't to trade for another injury prone player though. Especially one that doesn't make us better.

I don't know how much of a PR boost it would be really. I mean McGrady can draw bigger crowds than Jermaine but enough to make a difference? I don't think so at least. I think that winning is a much better PR boost and this trade doesn't give us that.

With this team as constructed, standing pat isn't going to cut it. We are a .500 team at best. That's not "winning" in the "common fan's" eyes. And the "common fan" is who TPTB have to win back.

Moreover, I believe that the "common fan" relates JO and Tins clear back to the brawl, and until they are gone (no longer a Pacer), attendance will stay where it is now or get worse. I'm not a financial analyist, but 7-8-9 thousand fans per game doesn't pay the bills (much less JO's contract), and thats a recipe for losing this team to Seattle in 5 years.

granger33
01-02-2008, 09:05 AM
thinkin about t-mac comin to indy is good.

but in all reality.

he wont be coming to Indiana.

D-BONE
01-02-2008, 09:22 AM
As I consider this idea, I am alternately curious, excited, repulsed, and petrified.

The thing that makes it hard for me to say yes, despite my calls for a trade of some sort, is that I find TMac to be a talented player, but arguably one of the most overrated around. Not unlike JO, doesn't live up to the reputation/status/image conferred upon him. Arguably TMac's more injury pronte, too.

The TMac I see when I think 2008 version is nothing like the potentially Jordanesque one I remember from the early days in Toronto. The current model doesn't D up much and his forays to the rim are infrequent.

This concern is offset, however, by the comments already put forth about the potential advantages of cutting ties with the brawl era and the valid point that the current collection of players will not rise above the cycle of medicority dooming us to that purgatory. A JO for TMac deal doesn't guarantee that either by any means.

Any deal involving these two would hinge on what, if anything, was included beyond them IMO.

Mourning
01-02-2008, 12:58 PM
Exactly, I'm done with this year. Yes, I will continue to watch but it pains me to watch mediocrity. Either ***** or get off the pot so to speak...no one we have is going to get us into contention, the only way is by adding to our talent and we have no players that could net us anyone worth anything because of all our awful salary to talent ratios. The ABSOLUTE worst thing the Pacers could do this year is to sneak into the playoffs at a 6-8 seed, forgoe a lottery pick and be ousted in the first round. Why we are not in rebuilding mode allready (unless we are waiting until the offseason/draft day to swing some deals) is a mystery to me. I would love to have EJ on this team for the future but i can live with some smart rebuilding choices..he just happens to be my current favorite player. There is an assload of talent in this draft and to not try and take advantage of it in our current state is a slap in the face to the fan base. We have poor guards and frontline potential, so go get some young guards to go with that frontline potential so we can build a good future franchise. I would love to snag a gordon/rose and a deandre jordan type in the draft...probably not likely but more worth mulling over than watching us flounder around in the kiddie pool of the NBA. PS...go pacers

Ok, let me explain my position more in depth.

I have been on the fence the past two seasons about changing the team way more radically in a certain vision (before the Al trade that so many of the members loved and I really did not like at all). In other words to make some clear cut choices. Either we go with totally building a team that could seriously contend and totally dedicate to that or we rebuild.

I hate this aim of just getting to the play-offs is what is needed to have a succesfull year. That's an aim that lacks ambition and only is aimed towards the short term. I would prefer us to take a dip in the standings, so we would have a better shot at getting a higher rated talent, because we IMO lack the talent in the longterm to be able to seriously compete.

Now that doesn't mean I am talking about gunning as low as the first 3 picks, but adding a 5 or 6th pick would sure be nice.

It also doesn't mean that I think we should be solely gunning for good draft picks. One or two trades with players that have just started or about to establish themselves as the sort of players that we need aswell as some ending contracts and a few veterans to "tutor" the kiddiecorps.

Thats what I believed and still believe would have been the best formula to getting a good team again. Fixing the talentlevel and fixing the amount of salary we are dishing out. It would mean sucking for prob. 2 years, maybe 3, but I have faith that this team has enough good scouts to make full use of the picks we would be getting aswell.

That beying said who would you want to trade with to get a top-3 pick this year? Because the asking prices for those are usually enormous. And I dont think we have what it takes there and I dont think the potential teams getting it would be very interested, except maybe the Knicks (but, didnt they trade away their 2008 pick) and then only because Zeke likes JO a lot and the other way around aswell.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

jmoney2584
01-02-2008, 05:51 PM
Ok, let me explain my position more in depth.

I have been on the fence the past two seasons about changing the team way more radically in a certain vision (before the Al trade that so many of the members loved and I really did not like at all). In other words to make some clear cut choices. Either we go with totally building a team that could seriously contend and totally dedicate to that or we rebuild.

I hate this aim that just getting to the play-offs is what is needed to have a succesfull year. That's an aim that lacks ambition in my personal opinion. I wanted preferred us to take a dip in the standings, so we would have a better shot at getting a higher rated talent, because we IMO lack the talent in the longterm to be able to seriously compete.

Now that doesn't mean I am talking about gunning as low as the first 3 picks, but adding a 5 or 6th pick would sure be nice.

It also doesn't mean that I think we should be solely gunning for good draft picks. One or two trades with players that have just started or about to establish themselves as the sort of players that we need aswell as some ending contracts and a few veterans to "tutor" the kiddiecorps.

Thats what I believed and still believe would have been the best formula to getting a good team again. Fixing the talentlevel and fixing the amount of salary we are dishing out. It would mean sucking for prob. 2 years, maybe 3, but I have faith that this team has enough good scouts to make full use of the picks we would be getting aswell.

That beying said who would you want to trade with to get a top-3 pick this year? Because the asking prices for those are usually enormous. And I dont think we have what it takes there and I dont think the potential teams getting it would be very interested, except maybe the Knicks (but, didnt they trade away their 2008 pick) and then only because Zeke likes JO a lot and the other way around aswell.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

As far as a decent trading partner goes we would have to wait until the all-star break or even a last minute draft day thing where we get a steal with the rights to "so and so" like Portland did with Brandon Roy. Since our salary distribution is pretty janked right now it could be a hard road to walk, but if we could pick up anyone via trades or the draft i would be happy as long as they are smart long term moves. The cavs aren't going to stay mediocre for long...even though the Heat suck and are in a bad spot paying Shaqasaurus his salary over the next 4, they should be in place to get a good pick this year and have someone to go with wade in the future. Boston has several years of being great left in them, detroit will be there...unless something blockbuster is on the horizon, I believe getting some picks in a heavily talented draft is key along with making some player for player type moves in the coming years. No one wants Troy now obviously, but in his final year when that fatty contract is coming off the books we could get someone to bite on him....who knows. All in all i think any moves we make will come in the offseason as it seems TPTB may give JOB a full year to work with this team and fully assess the situation. I'm just crossing my fingers because a young developing team with great potential having a few medicore seasons is much more exciting than watching what we have now. As a 23 year fan I just want to see a good product on the court, I want going to games to be fun again...I remember the days of MSA and being a kid at the Pacers/Knicks ECFs...THOSE were crazy unmatchable atmospheres...Indiana deserves this again.

Mourning
01-02-2008, 07:30 PM
As far as a decent trading partner goes we would have to wait until the all-star break or even a last minute draft day thing where we get a steal with the rights to "so and so" like Portland did with Brandon Roy. Since our salary distribution is pretty janked right now it could be a hard road to walk, but if we could pick up anyone via trades or the draft i would be happy as long as they are smart long term moves. The cavs aren't going to stay mediocre for long...even though the Heat suck and are in a bad spot paying Shaqasaurus his salary over the next 4, they should be in place to get a good pick this year and have someone to go with wade in the future. Boston has several years of being great left in them, detroit will be there...unless something blockbuster is on the horizon, I believe getting some picks in a heavily talented draft is key along with making some player for player type moves in the coming years. No one wants Troy now obviously, but in his final year when that fatty contract is coming off the books we could get someone to bite on him....who knows. All in all i think any moves we make will come in the offseason as it seems TPTB may give JOB a full year to work with this team and fully assess the situation. I'm just crossing my fingers because a young developing team with great potential having a few medicore seasons is much more exciting than watching what we have now. As a 23 year fan I just want to see a good product on the court, I want going to games to be fun again...I remember the days of MSA and being a kid at the Pacers/Knicks ECFs...THOSE were crazy unmatchable atmospheres...Indiana deserves this again.

That I can fully aggree with.