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View Full Version : Post Game 32: Pacers blow lead to Bobcats



Trader Joe
12-31-2007, 04:50 PM
Owens FTW.
JO and Dun FTL.

Everyone else FTMeh.

Trader Joe
12-31-2007, 04:51 PM
In other news this team desperately misses Jamaal Tinsley.

Doddage
12-31-2007, 04:52 PM
Slick said it best, we're just scared whenever we have a 4th quarter lead.

Trader Joe
12-31-2007, 04:52 PM
I win. ;)

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=35884

bnd45
12-31-2007, 04:53 PM
JO added to his un-clutch resume.

Meanwhile, Danny Granger continues to regress. He's officially more passive than Dunleavy. When MD is your more aggressive wing, you're team is in some serious trouble.

Why didn't we look to get Shawne Williams a shot or 2 during OT?

granger33
12-31-2007, 04:54 PM
Im just comletley tired of it.

can we ever hit a big shot. we had about 10 chances.

we need to pick up a clutch player like Ben Gordon, or someone like that.

JO isnt a franchise player, his hit one game winner in his career against detroit years ago, the amount of shots that he has missed with the game on the line is incrediable.

odeez
12-31-2007, 04:54 PM
:confused:

esabyrn333
12-31-2007, 04:54 PM
Owens FTW.
JO and Dun FTL.

Everyone else FTMeh.


what does that mean

andreialta
12-31-2007, 04:54 PM
JO added to his un-clutch resume.

Meanwhile, Danny Granger continues to regress. He's officially more passive than Dunleavy. When MD is your more aggressive wing, you're team is in some serious trouble.

Why didn't we look to get Shawne Williams a shot or 2 during OT?

Because Jim Obrien plays by the stats and thinks that JONEAL is our best jumpshooter. not a low post threat, but a jump shooter!!

BoomBaby33
12-31-2007, 04:55 PM
Slick said it best, we're just scared whenever we have a 4th quarter lead.

Thats the truth.

How many times have we lost a lead like this?

In-excusable.

Trader Joe
12-31-2007, 04:56 PM
what does that mean

FTW=For the win
FTL=For the loss
FTMeh=For the meh?:dance:

odeez
12-31-2007, 04:58 PM
Yeah JO is not your go to guy down the stretch. We need a real team leader. And forget about this team knowing how to hold a lead. Getting defensive stops when the game is on the line is a big problem for this team. Tonight turning the ball over was also one of the reasons we were unable to put them away when we had a chance.

LoneGranger33
12-31-2007, 05:01 PM
We're not going to win any more games this year.

Doddage
12-31-2007, 05:01 PM
I win. ;)

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=35884
Psh.... mine looks better!!

andreialta
12-31-2007, 05:02 PM
Sign C-webb!!

atleast you know he will call a timeout when in need!

DisapointedPacerFan
12-31-2007, 05:03 PM
We've lost too many leads going into the 4th quarter.

To the game, Owens played really good.

Unclebuck
12-31-2007, 05:10 PM
I'm tired of losing leads. 12 point lead with 6 minutes to go - shouldn't lose in that situation.

andreialta
12-31-2007, 05:10 PM
I'm so Frustrated to this loss but at the same time is very optimistic!

I really don't know why but i am still very optimistic!

quiller
12-31-2007, 05:20 PM
Well lucky me I got to listen to the Bobcat radio team for the whole second half and overtime.. for some reason pacer link didn't come up pacers on NBA com.

Sounds like 1 ref's swallowed whistles in 4th a number of times to protect Wallace. No one on this team but JO wanted to step up and take a shot expect for Daniels and he was turning it over on a regular basis.

I do not understand a lot of hate for JO on this board.... and yes he did not have a good OT... but still...

He lead us in scoring, rebounding and assists was 8-13 shooting after a 2-9 start. Yes he did not win the game with a jumper at the end... but he did hit a shot in the lane with 22 seconds left to give us the lead.... not his fault he had to switch to cover Wallace in the lane to prevent a score allowing his man to get the tip in.

KEY JO got no rest in 2nd half... way way too many to's and Bobcats shot 23 more FT's then us... and only JO and Daniels seemed willing to try and score in the 2nd half... Owens played 45 min(he's not good enough to play that much in a nba game guys...)

bnd45
12-31-2007, 05:43 PM
I know the Cats went small, but why are Foster's minutes down the last few games? Despite today's game, I would still rather see less of Murph and more of Foster.

Also, here's an interesting stat:
Our opponents have MADE 14 more FT's this season than we've TAKEN.

Finally just to add some fuel to the anti-#7 camp: JO didn't get to the line at all today.

Lord Helmet
12-31-2007, 06:23 PM
Glad I missed today's game.....

Looks like I missed another classic. :unimpress

Naptown_Seth
12-31-2007, 06:30 PM
As a JO fan I'm more than happy to admit that he's not really clutch. Actually big men often aren't because you can double, foul or just deny them the ball. Usually you need an outside catch and shoot guy or a guy going off the dribble.

So with that in mind, who does that WELL for the Pacers?

In other news, the Pacers are leading the NBA in FT allowed. Gerald Wallace took 22 FTA BY HIMSELF. Now what position does he play and just exactly who was stopping him? I mean don't they have this young, talented defensive stopper on the roster? Not so much.

As I mentioned elsewhere, a concern I have is their ability to handle adversity. It was the hard run that came right when they lost Quis that sent the team down the drain. Could it be starting to happen again?

I hate to say it but I'm starting to look at the lottery pick guys again with Pacers interest. :(

I think we all knew that Tinsley was a critical piece to this current roster/coaching style. Hopefully it's just a matter of riding out a short injury period for him. History suggests it could be worse than that, but I want to be optimistic here.


Finally just to add some fuel to the anti-#7 camp: JO didn't get to the line at all today.
Yep. With his FGAs that is unexcusable. A low FG% can be offset by a solid Points per Shot. Sub-1.00 PPS is horrible. He really needed to be 8-10 from the line at least with how involved he was in the offense.

Hicks
12-31-2007, 06:37 PM
I don't see this as a "we missed Tinsley" game. We built a lead and lost it without him, and we're good at doing that with him too.

Aw Heck
12-31-2007, 06:40 PM
.500 team.

Don't get too excited if we get 5 games over .500, because we'll probably fall right back down right afterwards. It also means don't get too low if we get 5 games under .500, because we'll probably climb right back up.

Follow this philosophy and you won't be surprised by anything from this team this year.

Naptown_Seth
12-31-2007, 09:35 PM
I don't see this as a "we missed Tinsley" game. We built a lead and lost it without him, and we're good at doing that with him too.
True.

Honestly it killed them when Wallace fouled out Dunleavy and then came right back and fouled out Murphy too. He was killing them. It shows just how extremely valuable drawing fouls can be, it's not just the points you get it's the guys you get out of the game or at least force to be more cautious.


The Pacers fouling rate is just nuts at this point. They basically explicitly lost this game because of it.


Let me add one thing about JO. He was NOT the guy put in place to stop Wallace, period. He did hit the final FG in regulation. He pulled down the offensive board after Granger missed his shot and after Owens missed his 3pt attempt. On the 2nd one he had his pass out stolen away, but still, he wasn't the guy demanding the ball and contributing nothing like some people claim. This whole "why is he shooting that long jumper" aspect totally ignores all the other missed plays prior to that, as well as the inability to keep Wallace on the perimeter.

I mean JO AGAIN led the team in assists after doing it vs DET too, and in case you didn't notice 5 is A LOT for any PF/C to get in a game. He put up 3 blocks as well. And 13 boards with 4 offensive, and that's more than Troy and Jeff combined to do in more total minutes (OFF I mean). It's not like Okafur went off.


This is the kind of game where you would have loved to sic Ron Artest, or even Jackson, on Wallace to slow him down. I understand there were issues, I really do. But damn, you need talent to win games and defensive talent to protect leads.

ilive4sports
01-01-2008, 01:29 AM
Honestly i dont care if JO missed it at the very end, you know why, he already hit the shot at the end of the 4th, but due to someone blowing it and JO having to come over and defend Wallace, i believe it was him, and making Wallace miss the shot, he was unable to be there for the board so Okafor just tipped it right in. That right there is not JOs fault. Blame it on JO all you want, but realize that your blaming the wrong guy tonight.

granger33
01-01-2008, 01:40 AM
JO forcing a 3 pointer when we were down 5 wasn't really text book basketball either.

Hicks
01-01-2008, 01:41 AM
Seth, those are all great points about the positives JO brings. But the whole story tells me this: Let JO do what he does best, but for God's sake get someone on this team who can nail the winning shot and take it out of JO's hands entirely. Let JO set them up, and let Player X knock them down.

Late Christmas present?

ilive4sports
01-01-2008, 02:02 AM
Seth, those are all great points about the positives JO brings. But the whole story tells me this: Let JO do what he does best, but for God's sake get someone on this team who can nail the winning shot and take it out of JO's hands entirely. Let JO set them up, and let Player X knock them down.

Late Christmas present?
I completely agree with that. Think about it, a PF is not the guy you want taking a last second shot anyways, unless he gets a wide open dunk or something. We got so used to having Reggie here and now there is no one when we need someone the most. Danny, it doesnt seem like hes going to be that guy. Shawn, who knows at this point. Quis isnt a shooter. Hell right now, im going to say it would have to be Tins, just because hes been the most clutch player for us this season.

LoneGranger33
01-01-2008, 10:04 AM
coughcoughbadcoachingcough

BoomBaby33
01-01-2008, 10:40 AM
Yep. With his FGAs that is unexcusable. A low FG% can be offset by a solid Points per Shot. Sub-1.00 PPS is horrible. He really needed to be 8-10 from the line at least with how involved he was in the offense.

Agreed. 10 of 26 FGA; 0-0 FTA

The problem is with all his 16-18 foot jump shots (and most of them are slightly fading away), he isn't going to get to the free throw line period. He isn't Larry Bird, MJ, or even Kevin McHale - he sucks at fade aways. I don't know why he keeps trying them. Especially when there is NO ONE under the basket for an offensive rebound. It aggravates the he11 out of me. Especially for a game winner or to tie it up at the end of a game. He simply is not a finisher.

He has been more aggressive TO the basket this year, I'm not sure why he doesn't use that move more. He is really successful at it when he takes it to the rim. He actually does it throughout the game, then settles for his fade away at the end. Grrrrrrrrr. Its like Slick said, we are scared.

The game itself. When DunDun went out with 6 fouls is when we were screwed. Danny couldn't guard Wallace, and at least DunDun was containing him.



This is the kind of game where you would have loved to sic Ron Artest, or even Jackson, on Wallace to slow him down. I understand there were issues, I really do. But damn, you need talent to win games and defensive talent to protect leads.


Well, not necessarily Jack, but definitely Psycho. That brings me to Danny. I thought he was supposed to be our lock down defender. Mark and Slick made him sound like his shoes had glue on the soles. Slick was so ticked at Danny on the broadcast.

On another note, everybody is complaining about our free throw attempts being so low. When you settle for jump shots and 3 pointers all the time, thats going to be the pill we have to take. To get to the line in the NBA, all you gotta do is take it to the rim, and we simply don't have many players that can do that very well.

Trade speculation warning ahead: We need a Gerald Wallace, we need a Jason Richardson, we need someone, anyone who is fearless taking it to the rim (ala Fred Jones, ala Byron Scott when we got him back in the day). Best case scenario would be someone who can take his own man off the dribble. I'm ready for JO to go already. JO for injured Kevin Martin anybody?