PDA

View Full Version : Post Game 31 (L): Pistons have our number this weekend



Doddage
12-29-2007, 09:29 PM
Good defense down the stretch, but we simply couldn't get it done offensively.

LoneGranger33
12-29-2007, 09:33 PM
Marquis Daniels showed tonight why we need Jamaal Tinsley.

Oneal07
12-29-2007, 09:34 PM
Don't put any blame on Quis!!! Pacers are a team

CableKC
12-29-2007, 09:36 PM
As I mentioned in the game thread......the Pistons can convert and properly execute their offense when they need to.....the Pacers simply can't convert. We're just not that good.

granger33
12-29-2007, 09:37 PM
Dont blame it on Quis. JO shouldnt of took that 18 foot shot with a minute left..we were in the penalty..why settle for a jumper. drive it for god sake.

anyway i think Ownes played really well.

gotta win @ charlotte

Kstat
12-29-2007, 09:39 PM
I'm not sure why Obie insists on playing Quis at the 1. He's not a PG and will never have the ballhandling skills to play PG against any kind of pressure.

Seriously, if he can't beat Kareem Rush out for SG minutes, he shouldn't be on the team. He should be playing where his strengths are maximized, not his weaknesses.

esabyrn333
12-29-2007, 09:39 PM
We played pretty well tonight we just got beat by a better team.

LoneGranger33
12-29-2007, 09:39 PM
Dont blame it on Quis. JO shouldnt of took that 18 foot shot with a minute left..we were in the penalty..why settle for a jumper. drive it for god sake.

anyway i think Ownes played really well.

gotta win @ charlotte

I'm not basing my decision on one play - his decision-making and finishing just weren't there today. As you note, Owens was on tonight, so you should give him and Dunleavy the nod at the game's end.

granger33
12-29-2007, 09:45 PM
I'm not basing my decision on one play - his decision-making and finishing just weren't there today. As you note, Owens was on tonight, so you should give him and Dunleavy the nod at the game's end.

yes i do agree, owens should of been in for Marquis. But i think leaving Rush out there was a good move.

He did a great job defensivly on Rip Hamilton when Granger was out. Rush seems to of improved dramatically since everyone here was bagging him.

When u cut this game down there are many things that come to mind:

1. the refs were pretty horrible
2. To have many chances down the stretch to take the lead against pistons is great
3. No Jamaal Tinsley
4. After a back-to-back game getting blown out to only lose in the last minute

McKeyFan
12-29-2007, 09:47 PM
One thing I did like tonight: we didn't give up easy baskets.

On several occasions--I remember specifically Murphy and Foster--the guys put a hard foul/hard body on the guy attempting a layup or a dunk.

Oh yeah, Rush did it once too.

The rest? Bleh, we're not as good as they are. We need a better point guard. And not one in street clothes, and not one who's incredibly streaky and inconsistent when he's in uniform.

With Tins, we still lose that game 8 out of 10 times.

Kstat
12-29-2007, 09:47 PM
Listening to Obie in postgame, you'd think Indiana won by 20. I've never seen a coach so giddy after a loss...

Shade
12-29-2007, 09:49 PM
Listening to Obie in postgame, you'd think Indiana won by 20. I've never seen a coach so giddy after a loss...

I don't like that mentality. Sure, you can celebrate the victories, but coming close against a pretty good team isn't a victory.

Kstat
12-29-2007, 09:51 PM
no opinion either way, really. Rick Carlisle was too negative after a win once and the piston players were really upset at him because of it. I wonder if it works the other way around?

I did find it strange that Obie said he's very pleased with both the offense and the defense.

If you lose a game, shouldn't you be displeased with at least one of the two? What, did the special teams lose the game?

Kaufman
12-29-2007, 09:55 PM
I asked this in another thread but I'll ask it hear too--- does anyone know what Ike Diogu's +/- is for the year?

-11 is pretty sucky tonight.

Kegboy
12-29-2007, 10:28 PM
no opinion either way, really. Rick Carlisle was too negative after a win once and the piston players were really upset at him because of it. I wonder if it works the other way around?

I did find it strange that Obie said he's very pleased with both the offense and the defense.

If you lose a game, shouldn't you be displeased with at least one of the two? What, did the special teams lose the game?

That may just speak to how much he values Tinsley.

D-BONE
12-29-2007, 10:29 PM
Listening to Obie in postgame, you'd think Indiana won by 20. I've never seen a coach so giddy after a loss...

This whole thing is getting downright comical. It's like now moral victories are becoming acceptable.

Totally agree with you about Quis. He does not have the ballhandling to play point against pressure. I don't think he's legit even as the backup. He would be more effective for us at 2/3 where we of course have like 10 guys.

Only thing I liked about this game was there was effort throughout, especially on D. Ultimately, that's all one can ask for. Particularly with the assembly of talent we have.

Where was Dunleavy in the 4th quarter? Coach's decision? Injured? Anybody know?

Kegboy
12-29-2007, 10:34 PM
I asked this in another thread but I'll ask it hear too--- does anyone know what Ike Diogu's +/- is for the year?

-11 is pretty sucky tonight.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/plus_minus_0708.html

For some reason they don't have the link right in the site's menu, I had to go searching for it. They've already updated for tonight, so as of now he's -5 per game.

Kaufman
12-29-2007, 10:40 PM
Thanks for that link Kegboy --- its quite interesting to look at.

Maybe more fuel for the idea that Danny Granger might be more useful coming off the bench?

Interesting to see Mike Dunleavy and Tinsley on there at the top - despite the small margin of +. And then Granger way down at the bottom.

BillS
12-29-2007, 10:47 PM
I didn't hear the postgame, but as I said on WFNI (almost wrote WIBC) after the game, this was a talent loss, not an effort loss. I think JOB was probably happy that the team gave him everything he could have asked for - the problem is with the front office not getting us a "closer".

I was pretty impressed by Owens' performance at point tonight, both offensively and defensively. It's pretty clear he doesn't have major PG court vision, but because he himself knows it he did not try to make any flashy or impressive plays. The number of missed opportunities because he didn't see the open man may very well have equaled the potential missed opportunities due to showing off.

Before the trade deadline I'd sure like to see us get two bench guys - one who is almost guaranteed in the paint if the defense is focused on the perimeter, and one who is the same from the perimeter if the defense is focused in the lane. These are roleplayer slots, and if we had them we might just pull out a game like this one.

Lord Helmet
12-29-2007, 10:51 PM
I asked this in another thread but I'll ask it hear too--- does anyone know what Ike Diogu's +/- is for the year?

-11 is pretty sucky tonight.
I still think +/- is a pretty wacky stat....

Kegboy
12-29-2007, 10:54 PM
but as I said on WFNI

You said?! Wait, if you're Kevin Lee, that's a hell of a disguise you wear to Forum Parties. Plus, you show much more knowledge than you do on the radio.

Kaufman
12-29-2007, 10:59 PM
I still think +/- is a pretty wacky stat....

I don't disagree with you. It might be a wacky stat because we don't know how to interpret it quite yet...

But there has to be something to it --- someone is looking at it because otherwise why would tracking of such a statistic be done?

indyman37
12-29-2007, 11:36 PM
i only got to see the last 5 minutes of the game tonight, but i found some things i did and didn't like. i liked how Obie didn't just run back to the starters as soon as we were in a good position to take the lead in the final couple of minutes. but i did not like how instead of going for the quick two at the end, we took to long trying to get an open look from three.

Hicks
12-29-2007, 11:46 PM
If you lose a game, shouldn't you be displeased with at least one of the two? What, did the special teams lose the game?

If you assume that it's all about your offense and your defense, you give your opinion no credit or not enough credit. I think O'Brien realizes that Detroit is just better or just played better tonight. Your offense and/or defense isn't necessarily bad when you lose a game. Often they are, but not always. You can play good defense, and have a better offense score more than you want them to. You can play good offense, and have a better defense stop you more than you want them to. That's essentially what happened tonight. We played hard and at least OK at both ends of the floor, but the Pistons played better.

It's not about moral victories. I'm sure of that because Conrad Brunner tried to throw that out to Jim earlier this season and Jim got disgusted. He's being honest about his feelings of the team tonight: They weren't bad on either side of the ball, so he's not going to say they were bad just because they lost.

Hicks
12-29-2007, 11:48 PM
I didn't hear the postgame, but as I said on WFNI (almost wrote WIBC) after the game, this was a talent loss, not an effort loss. I think JOB was probably happy that the team gave him everything he could have asked for - the problem is with the front office not getting us a "closer".

I was pretty impressed by Owens' performance at point tonight, both offensively and defensively. It's pretty clear he doesn't have major PG court vision, but because he himself knows it he did not try to make any flashy or impressive plays. The number of missed opportunities because he didn't see the open man may very well have equaled the potential missed opportunities due to showing off.

Before the trade deadline I'd sure like to see us get two bench guys - one who is almost guaranteed in the paint if the defense is focused on the perimeter, and one who is the same from the perimeter if the defense is focused in the lane. These are roleplayer slots, and if we had them we might just pull out a game like this one.

Bill,

I just wanted to say that I thought that was you (didn't catch Kevin saying your name as you began talking with him) and you were making good points. I actually thought Kevin was a tad bit rude in talking over you on more than one occasion when you were trying to fully explain your thoughts. I loved your reaction when he compared Diener and Kerr. :D

OnlyPacersLeft
12-30-2007, 12:24 AM
why do we throw the ball to JO down the stretch? it's obvious he is captain clank when it comes to big shots. Also why did rush touch the ball? lol.
Give the damn ball to granger and let him create.

Unclebuck
12-30-2007, 12:52 AM
The effort tonight was outstanding, the defense at times was great, the Pistons are just better. Nothing to be upset about after this loss.

It was nice to be there and actually see a good crowd.

I hope to post more about Rush tomorrow, but his defense is really impressive to me

CableKC
12-30-2007, 01:15 AM
I'm not sure why Obie insists on playing Quis at the 1. He's not a PG and will never have the ballhandling skills to play PG against any kind of pressure.

Seriously, if he can't beat Kareem Rush out for SG minutes, he shouldn't be on the team. He should be playing where his strengths are maximized, not his weaknesses.
I'm guessing it's because we have no better options at the backup PG spot. Marquis is a better scorer then Owens and he's a better defender then Deiner.

When one of our key players gets injured...which is more often then not....the team falters. It's been mentioned before.....but the team simply isn't built very well.

andreialta
12-30-2007, 03:39 AM
still. tehre was no Dunleavy 4th quarter? this was his best game in the last 3 and we dont have him in there. Rush did play good though, but still with 2 minute mark, i'd rather have Mike thre in isntead of Kareem

Trader Joe
12-30-2007, 03:44 AM
I was at the game tonight and it was a fun game to be at. Though I was *****ed at about Tinsley by random fans several times. One couple asked me if Tinsley was injured and I replied yes. They said good. When I asked why, the response was this, "Because he's a loser." I mean seriously WTF is that? You come to a game and then ***** about a guy whos not even playing unfreakingbelieveable.
Then after the game I was walking out and commenting to my dad how the last few possessions showed how important having a true PG to set up the offense is. Some guy walking in front of me just chimed in,"You're right, but its not like Tinsley would have done any better." I responded, "He's fifth in the leaue in assists and is our best creator." The guy responds,"Have you seen his shooting percentages?" I replied that he was shooting better than Jason Kidd, but I don't think the guy was listening. What I'm saying though is this, I'm talking about how we needed someone to initiate the offense and create there at the end and this guy counters my point by saying he shoots the ball poorly? How is that even relevant? I wasn't saying Tinsley should have been shooting, but rather he would have helped us initiate. This much is clear, the common fan hates Tinsley. They don't even know why, they just do and they have nothing to back it up. Other than he's a "loser". Well if I'm half as successful as that "loser" in life then I will be quite content thank you very much. Not only that if I overcome anywhere near the obstacles Tinsley has in life, I wouldn't consider myself a "loser". Seriously anyone that loses not only their father, but also their stepfather within the same year at that young of an age and becomes as successful as Tinsley is not a "loser" in my book. But I digress.
Couple thoughts on individual players tonight...
1.) Andre Owens
I was impressed offensively. He hit a pair of threes and I thought ran the offense pretty well. However I thought this guy was supposed to be good defensively? Billups ate him alive and even Stuckey took him off the dribble once or twice. He looked pretty bad defensively to me. Completely lost at times and only average the rest of the time.
2.) Ike Diogu
I'm sorry, but I'm done with him. He's reached his peak and he's not going to get any better. Does the man even have a brain in his head? My entire section was groaning when he got the ball in the second when he was in because you knew what was coming, some forced BS and a probably miss. Seriously he is the definition of a black hole. And good Lord he might be the worst defensive player on the team. He just looked completely lost out there the entire game. He gave up a dunk to Maxiel where he completely lost him. I'm not sure Ike even knew he was still on a basketball court with how clueless he looked. If we could move him for a PG we should ASAP. He's just not gonna get any better and hes not impressive right now at all.

Couple other things...
I thought the play calling at the end was questionable. Iso call for JO in the post? Seriously? When has this ever worked late in a game? Look JO played very well tonight 20 pts 11 boards 5 assists and a couple blocks I think, but don't we have enough evidence by now to know that JO is not going to get it done in a one on one situation late in a game? The fade away jumper that was left short was incredibly predictable. I just don't get that call at all.

Also the last play that was drawn up didn't make much sense to me. Kareem Rush is the guy setting it up? What makes us think that will work? Shouldn't he be running around a screen? Made no sense at all.

Give the Pistons credit though, they are probably the best team in the NBA right now for a reason.

Peck
12-30-2007, 03:59 AM
I was at the game tonight and it was a fun game to be at. Though I was *****ed at about Tinsley by random fans several times. One couple asked me if Tinsley was injured and I replied yes. They said good. When I asked why, the response was this, "Because he's a loser." I mean seriously WTF is that? You come to a game and then ***** about a guy whos not even playing unfreakingbelieveable.
Then after the game I was walking out and commenting to my dad how the last few possessions showed how important having a true PG to set up the offense is. Some guy walking in front of me just chimed in,"You're right, but its not like Tinsley would have done any better." I responded, "He's fifth in the leaue in assists and is our best creator." The guy responds,"Have you seen his shooting percentages?" I replied that he was shooting better than Jason Kidd, but I don't think the guy was listening. What I'm saying though is this, I'm talking about how we needed someone to initiate the offense and create there at the end and this guy counters my point by saying he shoots the ball poorly? How is that even relevant? I wasn't saying Tinsley should have been shooting, but rather he would have helped us initiate. This much is clear, the common fan hates Tinsley. They don't even know why, they just do and they have nothing to back it up. Other than he's a "loser". Well if I'm half as successful as that "loser" in life then I will be quite content thank you very much. Not only that if I overcome anywhere near the obstacles Tinsley has in life, I wouldn't consider myself a "loser". Seriously anyone that loses not only their father, but also their stepfather within the same year at that young of an age and becomes as successful as Tinsley is not a "loser" in my book. But I digress.
Couple thoughts on individual players tonight...
1.) Andre Owens
I was impressed offensively. He hit a pair of threes and I thought ran the offense pretty well. However I thought this guy was supposed to be good defensively? Billups ate him alive and even Stuckey took him off the dribble once or twice. He looked pretty bad defensively to me. Completely lost at times and only average the rest of the time.
2.) Ike Diogu
I'm sorry, but I'm done with him. He's reached his peak and he's not going to get any better. Does the man even have a brain in his head? My entire section was groaning when he got the ball in the second when he was in because you knew what was coming, some forced BS and a probably miss. Seriously he is the definition of a black hole. And good Lord he might be the worst defensive player on the team. He just looked completely lost out there the entire game. He gave up a dunk to Maxiel where he completely lost him. I'm not sure Ike even knew he was still on a basketball court with how clueless he looked. If we could move him for a PG we should ASAP. He's just not gonna get any better and hes not impressive right now at all.

Couple other things...
I thought the play calling at the end was questionable. Iso call for JO in the post? Seriously? When has this ever worked late in a game? Look JO played very well tonight 20 pts 11 boards 5 assists and a couple blocks I think, but don't we have enough evidence by now to know that JO is not going to get it done in a one on one situation late in a game? The fade away jumper that was left short was incredibly predictable. I just don't get that call at all.

Also the last play that was drawn up didn't make much sense to me. Kareem Rush is the guy setting it up? What makes us think that will work? Shouldn't he be running around a screen? Made no sense at all.

Give the Pistons credit though, they are probably the best team in the NBA right now for a reason.

First let me say, great recap. Your thoughts on J.O. echo my own at the end of the game. Also, while I am not done with Ike, right now I am very upset with him.

But I really wanted to address something you said.

This much is clear, the common fan hates Tinsley. They don't even know why, they just do and they have nothing to back it up.

I think I'm going to have to disagree with this.

I think the common fan has a pretty good idea why they don't like Jamaal Tinsley.

You can start with the all of his off of the court stuff and for a lot of fans, that is enough.

However you really have to go beyond that for others.

Some of them didn't like his demeanor on the court over the past 4 years. Yes, we all know now he didn't like Rick. But to the common fan, that doesn't matter. A player is supposed to give it his all and act like he gives it his all no matter who the coach is.

Now understand I'm not saying I agree with that or that that line of thinking is right, I'm just going back to your "common fan" thought.

Also the sinuspoutitus was a turn off for several people.

Not to mention that there are times, even this season when he is playing very well I might add, that he will get caught up in a one on one macho contest with another player from another team and will do stupid things.

Example, he get's blocked by Ben Wallace so he decides to go at Ben Wallace the next three trips down the court. End result two turnovers and another block.

I guess what I'm getting at is, while you may not agree with thier reasons. The common fan does have an idea why they don't like him.

Look at Satan fans post even here on the digest about it's time to excersize O'Neal and Tinsley from our team. By all accounts other than his love of the dark lord, he is not a common fan and is in fact a very knoledgeable poster.

Yet, he is sharing the same thoughts that the "common fan" has.

All you can do is just be the best fan you can be and not worry about the "common fan".

They will come around eventually.

D-BONE
12-30-2007, 08:28 AM
I'm going to follow up on this Tinsley hate thing, for which Peck has already given a very in depth explanation.

In addition to those many accurate points, I think a PG is generally expected to be the team leader and a type of stabilizer. In addition, ultimately all teams-coaches, players, management-are judged on wins.

If we look at JT, not only in light of all the valid things Peck points out, but also in light of these above two criteria, he has not been very successful. Of course, we can say what other reasons might have caused that extraneous to JT himself-coach, system, surrounding talent, etc.-but for most people this is an excuse.

Outside the 2004 year, during which JT was a key cog, but not the starter throughout, he's really been highly inconsistent, not shown durability, leadership, or stability, and the team has been mediocre. Add to this his reputation for spurious injury, the oft-mentioned talent potential, and throw in a dash of going on 6 yrs of all that, and many people will get fed up.

When he first arrived I was very high on him. I was willing to be patient with the "potential" and had hoped that the ECF season had seen him turn the corner in the leadership/maturity area.

Now he's just wearing on me. Admittedly, I've been happy and impressed with his play this season. However, I just don't feel like his track record indicates he can be depended upon for a variety of reasons. If we could find a decent trade for him, I'd have no remorse in turning him loose. I don't consider myself a Tinsley hater either.

I think what would have to happen for him to restore real fan trust is a tall order. Of utmost importance would be the Pacers would have to become a winning team (probably a legit EC contender) and he would have to continue playing at his current level (or perhaps even better) throughout that development.

Final thought: Like many of you, I am a fantasy sports aficionado. Over the past 3-4 years I've come to think of Tins as I guy I love to have on my fantasy teams (accumulates good stats minus %s when healthy), but somebody whose performance does not translate into real-world team succes. As the PG, justly or not, he's held to a higher standard or responsibility, much like a QB in football. Regardless of all his off-court trangressions, whicih I don't honestly care too much about, I still don't think he's answered the on-court questions well enough for people to like him.

D-BONE
12-30-2007, 08:48 AM
On to a different topic, I read in the paper that JOb went with Rush over Dun in the 4th last night for better defensive matchups. Basically said since Tay had torched Dun so bad in Motown, he wanted DG on Tay and then Rush provided the best possible defense on Rip at that point.

First, let me say that I give Rush well-deserved credit for his recent play-especially, as UB notes, his improvement defensively.

Yet this development still leaves me thinking, if Dun is supposedly our best SG and we can't even play him down the stretch due to being defensively inferior to Rush, what does that really say?

Granted, Detroit is a bear to defend period, but particularly Prince (size) and Rip (movement), but still come on. What it tells me is we have a bunch of guys at the 2/3 spots none of which are complete players.

I wonder if any of them ever will be? This just screams to me "please trade one of the eighteen SG/SF (all of which are really SFs) for something that could help us.

Trying to weave together the many recent trade-oriented threads, all I can say is this team needs a trade. Whether it be soon or at the deadline, whether it be moving the vets with more of a view to the future or moving some of the younger front-line prospects (Dun included) to try and get some help in the (relatively) short term, we need a trade. The team as currently constructed will be forever stuck in mediocrity.

Unclebuck
12-30-2007, 08:56 AM
Not sure why you need to put your "common fan hat" on to figure it out, I hated Tinsley up until this season.

ABADays
12-30-2007, 12:38 PM
Not sure why you need to put your "common fan hat" on to figure it out, I hated Tinsley up until this season.

Well, I'm not a common fan and as someone else stated, given his history the time will come to uh "not be pleased with him" again.

LoneGranger33
12-30-2007, 01:28 PM
Hopefully Travis will get an opportunity to play in these next couple of games while Tinsley is injured. I still hold out hope for the guy's breakout season.

Trader Joe
12-30-2007, 01:51 PM
Fair points made by everyone on the Tinsley situation. I guess what I was trying to get at is this, if you're going to complain about Tinsley could you complain about something relevant? Something like he is a "loser" just doesn't help your case in my eyes, and referencing his shooting percentage when talking about needing someone to setup a play doesn't help you either. Thats kind of what I was trying to get at.

BoomBaby33
12-30-2007, 02:17 PM
I was at the game tonight and it was a fun game to be at. Though I was *****ed at about Tinsley by random fans several times. One couple asked me if Tinsley was injured and I replied yes. They said good. When I asked why, the response was this, "Because he's a loser." I mean seriously WTF is that? You come to a game and then ***** about a guy whos not even playing unfreakingbelieveable.
Then after the game I was walking out and commenting to my dad how the last few possessions showed how important having a true PG to set up the offense is. Some guy walking in front of me just chimed in,"You're right, but its not like Tinsley would have done any better." I responded, "He's fifth in the leaue in assists and is our best creator." The guy responds,"Have you seen his shooting percentages?" I replied that he was shooting better than Jason Kidd, but I don't think the guy was listening. What I'm saying though is this, I'm talking about how we needed someone to initiate the offense and create there at the end and this guy counters my point by saying he shoots the ball poorly? How is that even relevant? I wasn't saying Tinsley should have been shooting, but rather he would have helped us initiate. This much is clear, the common fan hates Tinsley. They don't even know why, they just do and they have nothing to back it up. Other than he's a "loser". Well if I'm half as successful as that "loser" in life then I will be quite content thank you very much. Not only that if I overcome anywhere near the obstacles Tinsley has in life, I wouldn't consider myself a "loser". Seriously anyone that loses not only their father, but also their stepfather within the same year at that young of an age and becomes as successful as Tinsley is not a "loser" in my book. But I digress.


I will echo Peck and D-Bone's sentiments about Tins, but I have another story I'd like to tell about a "common fan" friend that I have. Fortunately this "common fan" friend that I have could afford season tickets (unlike myself).

He chose not to renew his season tickets this year, mainly because of Tins. The Pacer PR department actually called him back to talk him into renewing his tickets, and he told them that as long as Tins was on the team, the answer is NO. I understand that not every one has this same reason for not renewing their tix, but I would be willing to bet that a dichotomy of the "common fan" (that incidentally puts out season ticket sales above 10,000) at least half of them might say the same thing.

They are just tired of the off court antics in general, whether self inflicted or being a victim of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Thats what the "common fan" sees. They only see the headlines, not the details.

The "common fan" doesn't care about being 5th in the league in assists, the "common fan" doesn't care that he is playing arguably the best ball of his career, or even that he is shooting better than Jason Kidd. They care about supporting a team with a good image. And it doesn't help any matters that on the other side of downtown, we have a team that won a super bowl "the right way", with a coach leading them who legitimately cares about image. Sure, they had a couple off field problems, but with success, and the % of bad apples being much less for the colts (2 or 3 out of 53 players versus 2 or 3 out 15 players), the public perception is we (the Pacers) are a bunch of trouble makers with 4 or 5 incidents in the last 2-3 years, involving 5-6-7 different players.

I consider myself somewhat of a tweener. Somewhere between a "common fan" and an "avid fan". Mainly because I'm not able to attend many games. In my heart, I'm an avid fan. And I completely agree with you Indy that Tins is a great creator that we need desperately - and that showed last night at the end of the game.

The bottom line goes back to the "trade JO and Tins now" thread discussion, we are just never going to get any better with this group of players than we are now, and image is a huge issue with fan support - bottom line. I am moderately enthusiastic about the way JO and Tins are playing (versus my opinion at the end of last year and the beginning of this year). I will root the Pacers on no matter who they have on the team, but if these 2 guys were traded, it would not hurt my feelings. If that makes me more of a "common fan", then so be it. I would think that the Pacer PR department is more interested in the "common fan" opinion that what you would think.

As always,

Go Pacers!!!

LoneGranger33
12-30-2007, 03:09 PM
I saw that Dunleavy was not going to be able to cover Tayshaun very early in the game. I think he would have been better served guarding Rip. Rip moves a lot off-ball, but isn't as likely to beat Dunleavy off the dribble - given Dunleavy's height advantage and length. I also don't believe Granger is the lock-down defender some people make him out to be. I dunno, I just thought that was a terrible coaching decision.

Some good news, though - Rasheed did not totally punish Troy Murphy like he did last year. That was good.

JayRedd
12-30-2007, 09:58 PM
If you lose a game, shouldn't you be displeased with at least one of the two? What, did the special teams lose the game?

By now, you would think Dick Harter would have learned that you never punt to Devin Hester.

andreialta
12-31-2007, 05:58 AM
Ike Diogu as a blackhole. ive said that before! haha

if only he'll pass to the double team and repost.

been his problem since golden state.. although ocasionally you really get a good game from him

everyone hates on Tins. I love his ability to push the ball up the floor on a fast break. J Kidd can do that, Nash could and then thers Tinsley.

just too bad the charlotte game aint televise.

BillS
12-31-2007, 08:55 AM
You said?! Wait, if you're Kevin Lee, that's a hell of a disguise you wear to Forum Parties. Plus, you show much more knowledge than you do on the radio.

Call in after the game :buddies: